[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Unless your name is Rahetalius, you don't get to hear back from DE. 

Sorry.

The truth stings. Was waiting for that 😞

[We need to talk, DE.]

28 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

attacking devs for not giving him what he wanted is not "relevant and valid criticism". especially not with his snarky tone against anybody who dares disagree with him. 

Still haven't shown me where I've bashed the developers. If the proof of your claim exists, present it. Otherwise you're slandering me.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, (XB1)Deathjt1218 said:

She literally makes a tornado and manipulates air on most of her abilities like an Air Bender but ok...

She literally has half her theme built around aviation with her physical representation and her kit name. But ok.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, CoolDudeMcCool said:

But that's the thing, maybe Zephyr didn't get flight because that's just not what DE wants. Two other frames got flight because DE wanted to give them flight, Zephyr didn't because DE didn't want to give her flight maybe, I can't say for sure because I'm not DE but it wouldn't be hard to believe.

Which leads to the main topic: why ask us what we want, take what we ask for, and slap in onto two different frames and clam up when asked about the decision for years? 

That's what has some of us upset.

[We need to talk, DE.]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Deathjt1218 said:

Zephyr doesn't need to hover she is more of a air bender than a bird.

Considering hovering was requested and added, just in a horrid state, developers disagree with you.

[We need to talk, DE.]

5 minutes ago, CoolDudeMcCool said:

I don't know the full situation and all I can give are maybes, maybe they changed their mind, maybe something came up, etc. but I'm sure if DE had a good change in mind or had something they wanted to do with her they'd do it, so we can only presume making Zephyr fly just isn't on their to-do list any time soon.

That's kind of the entire issue here. They "maybes" and "eventually". We've been waiting for years already. And the requested features for zephyr have been twice now added to other warframe that could have been added to zephyr in response to the overwhelming requests of what players of zephyr wanted: flight that looked good and felt good.current tailwind doesn't meet the standard. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

4 hours ago, KiteoHatto said:

Hildryn is Titania's distant sister who started using steroids.

 

That said....she is very boring to play tbh(because of how easy it is), 3 toggle abilities and only 1 active which lasts for a whooping 2-3s and you can't even use it while flying. Then again, for how hard she is going to be obtained there i guess you could justify her tankiness.

 

She is cheap to mod for, but annoying as hell.

My dude. What? This thread isn't about hyldrin. Its about hyldrin having a hover that was asked for zephyr.

[We need to talk, DE.]

6 hours ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

YO, HOLY CRAP, THIS THREAD IS STILL OPEN?! Has long has it been? Like, a week? Two? 

DUDE, you ever heard of a flightless bird? There are multiple species of them!

Just because Zephyr's aesthetic (birb) is ONE thing doesn't mean it HAS to be incorporated with her theme (wind).

Besides, so what if Heather, or Hilda or whatever the hell her name is has a propulsion super? Try flying from one corner of the Plains to another using Aegis Storm.

Then use Zephyr and her Tail Wind, and see who makes it further.

LOOK! It evens says so on her ability wiki:

Activating Tail Wind multiple times allows Zephyr to propel herself farther into the air, effectively simulating flight.

SIMULATING FLIGHT. 

I don't know where in this topic you bashed anyone, if you even bashed anyone, and even if you did, unintentionally or intentionally, I don't care. But this thread has got to be one of the most baseless, POINTLESS arguments I have seen in my 2+ years browsing this forum.

I'm sorry DE hurt your little pilot feelings, but they're the ones making the game, and every decision they make doesn't revolve around you.

Almost a week but yes it's still going on.

Dude!? Do you understand that not once have I made the "birb therefore must fly" argument? Stop attacking arguments I'm not making because it's dumb and misses the point entirely?

So what? The entire issue is that when DE asked the zephyr community what we wanted for her when her turn on the chopping block for prime access update came, the overwhelmingly requested feature ignored and instead, turkey mode.

You're not getting it in your hildryn zephyr distance speed challenge. It's not about who can do it faster, because that would be Titania with her Razorwing Blitz augment, which at max pwr str puts her almost as fast as an Itzal teleport. The thing about Hyldrin that has me bothered, is that her hover is what a lot of us Zephyr mains wanted for her hover mode, and a high speed flight mode to be her main travel skill, with the tailwind instant cast functioning exactly as it does now.

We asked for things for Zephyr, and they were given to Titania and Hyldrin instead.

We don't want "simulated flight" that has you stuck in your direction of travel until the animation is finished or unless you divebomb (MOAR POWAR) to get out of the skill.

[We need to talk, DE.]

49 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

holy crap you are truly hopeless. its not even funny anymore. stop projecting for once and read the stuff you have been writing for past days dude. 

Naw pimp. You made the accusation, burden of proof falls on you.

Show me where I bashed the developers, or retract your statement.

[We need to talk, DE.]

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

your "experience" means nothing to the scale of this game, and i very highly doubt its relevant to the scale of actual engineering, for you somehow think that zephyr has flight surfaces when she clearly does not have any. 

and it was always like that before the rework, so idk why are you complaining about. but ofc you will deny that you are wrong so whatever.

why would i read your rework suggestion when at every single comment you made on this thread was attacking de and/or attacking those who point out your bullcrap? zephyr is fine. 

yeah, i still dont see any proof that backs up this claim. like, none at all. communities arent made up of people who have "millions of affinity" btw. 

oh please every frame has a skill that was suggested for another by the community. 

good on them

"literally only needs to be realigned" did you ever actually code anything in your life? and please stop pretending as if you represent the community when you still dont have any proof towards it.

oh i know what im talking about, more than you do about aerospace engineering appearently. since you are clearly putting words in my mouth as if i was talking against whole group of people when all i did was reply to 2 people and adressed them and them only. but hey, keep claiming that you have expertise in the field as if realism was ever a reasonable point of argument in this games design. 

 

.I'm asking a genuine question here, with no actual hostility in my tone voice or what I'm attempting to communicate: Can you actually read? Is someone reading this to you, for you?

Show me exactly where I have attacked DE for starters, then by all means show me every post you claim I attacked them. Considering the scathing climate of "overprotection" on the forums and in game with censorship and the like, one would think that this thread would have already been deleted by someone if it were bashing or inflammatory in nature.

 

And yet, it lives. You think I've not gotten posts reported in this thread? You do realize that someone has come through and deleted several posts, yet this thread remains.

So again, can you read? Or at the least comprehend what you read?

No flight surfaces? guess those things on her forearm aren't canards and it's definitely not an empennage between her legs.

Doesn't read rework suggestion, but knows it won't work. Is this some kind of joke? What mystic psychic lands do you hail from, oh mighty Time Wizard?

putting words in your mouth? You literally have no idea what it that we want and you sit and criticize what we're asking for.

Lemme put this in clear words. That, is lunacy. Your argument boils down to, quite literally I might add " I don't know what you want but it won't work because it's stupid" as you pour boiling oil over your face. You're entirely ignorant on something that's easily accessible and you refuse to inform yourself, but still insist it won't work.

So, if you're going to continue to make asinine claims about how we're attacking developer staff members(not true) and tell us all how what we want that you don't even understand isn't possible(also not true) then please cease from adding your uninformed opinion out there? We who actually play the frame with frequent to full use kinda don't need someone telling us what we want. we kinda know, we want her to fly.

[We need to talk, DE.]

On 2019-03-08 at 9:52 PM, Zeclem said:

ok this is just too funny not to reply. but first, legit answers.

1-zephyr doesnt have any more anim lock on her 1 after her rework. you can cast tailwind downwards to get out of it, just like before.

2-zephyr's 3 got a slightly longer animation cus it completely eliminates any kind of non melee attack. now rest of her kit is actually usable a slight compensation nerf was needed. and dont tell me it was some "huge" nerf to wait for half a second before casting it, i wont buy it. 

3-zephyr doesnt have flight surfaces, none of her surfaces are shaped or widened properly create lift. none. zero. it matters little (realism in this game lol) but i had to explain it since this never stopped being one of your main arguments. 

ok now, less legit answers.

1-i am an aerospace engineer in training. im building an army of little drones to bomb every oil resevre in the world so nobody is gonna fight over them anymore, and thus, bring world peace.

2-i have expert degree on every military flight simulator programming across the globe. remember that unbeatable planes in the model XI-53? that was my self inserted character.

3-i led the royal airforce in world war 2 into victory by using my time machine that i stole from doctor pilot, who is also secretly, a pilot. 

You're right. I actually legit forgot that the only way to get out of tailwind is to use more power. Tim Taylor would approve. Except that doesn't allow you to change vector, or avoid slamming into walls.

and in response to your non-legit answers? Basically amounts to experience and knowledge is worthless. Nice.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:07 AM, FlusteredFerret said:

Thats hilarious! 

 

I suspect the answer is far more likely to do with people getting far too salty, which the mods tend to deal with fairly swiftly, if its considered unconstructive / off topic / abusive / trolling etc.

 

It always amuses me just how heated people can get over the most trivial of matters.

 

If its trivial to you, why bother even responding? What I find amusing is how people with either nothing or very little invested in the frame that's in question herecome simply to oppose when it won't really affect them.

On 2019-03-09 at 9:31 AM, Zeclem said:

and what good is that gonna do for the frame? a good majority of the tilesets arent made for that, it would be just a clunky feature that nobody is gonna be relying on. tail wind at least gets the job of quick movement done. 

On 2019-03-09 at 9:42 AM, Zeclem said:

so you wanted a quick movement skill to be changed to either a hovering skill thats stupidly slow(which doesnt fit the theme at all btw) or an archwing ult that doesnt make sense on zephyr's theme of being a wind warrior. got it. and the hover she gets on tailwind is pretty damn enough. 

also drop this act like what you want is what community wants. i use zephyr too, and im very much happy with her airborne potential. 

Maybe if you'd read my flight mechanic rework, you'd know that what you're saying isn't what we want. We want fast, controlled flight and the hover mechanic to have an actual use. If hildryn's flight mode were the new hover for zephyr, and we had a more high speed version for other than "stationary" flight, it'd be exactly as we want it.

And by, the way, it is what the community wanted. every. single. time. it was brought up. When DE asked actual zephyr mains, you know, those of us with millions of affinity and an overwhelming usage rating versus time played? They did that. They reached out to me, another named CaptainBMF, and a few others with as they put it "extraordinary" usage. We all wanted some form of controlled flight. Thaylien made a series of(although I disagree with the direction they wanted) fantastic aerial reworks that could have still been better than turkey mode.

What did we get? Turkey mode. The hover mechanic hyldrin got? suggested for Zephyr. The flight mode Titania got? requested for Zephyr. Granted yes Titania uses archwing mechanics, and yes she has her size reduced.

However, the introduction of Zephyr in U12 saw the increase in hall width, and height as well as widening several open tilesets by several meters. They adjusted the playspace to acomodate something that broke from mechanical and traditional norms at the time. 

Now? We have archwing with the use of normal weapons. We have massive open spaces. And all that would need happen for Tailwind to give zephyr players of all playstyles what they want, is already present in the mechanic as it currently functions. Literally only needs to be re-aligned.

So, please, if you're going to argue against myself, know what you're talking about? Don't sit there trying to tell us what we want isn't going to work when you don't even know what we want.

 

On 2019-03-09 at 1:33 PM, Saratheia said:

You're arguing about scientific laws in a game where you play futuristic space ninjas who have organic metal skin... I honestly can't believe someone is this upset over something this trivial. Seriously, like so many have said already, if you're not happy, fine, you can voice your opinion, but trust me, moaning this much won't change anything. I personally don't have any real issue with her ability to FLOAT/HOVER (not fly) and it seems most people feel the same.

 

There's no issue here of other frames being stepped on or overlooked or even getting more favour than others. You need to also take into consideration that when the abilities of the frames are created/re-worked, they have to be so careful to make them unique and not make them similar or at least too similar to the abilities of other frames. Another thing to take into consideration is that Hildryn is the first frame to have no energy, she uses her shields. DE likely juggled several kinds of ideas before concluding the set she has was the best option for her. (At least for the time being.) Overall, her abilities are just what they are, her abilities. I see no real overshadowing of any other frame when it comes to Hildryn. I like her, but nothing about her makes me want to play her more than others nor do I also feel that she's been given an unfair one-up over other frames I play.

And that is your view. Your view doesn't super-cede the view of anyone else, and it's quite rude to declare that something trivial to you, should be trivial to others. Those of us who fell in love with the frame at launch have used her for years as a favorite. I myself mained her exclusively for close to three years straight. So, when the developers ask those of us who are deeply attached to the frame what it is we'd like to see in her next balance pass. and the desired change is almost unanimous for "we want her to fly" and what we get is not "she can fly" but "she's the turkey of the sky" and now hyldrin has something that we genuinely feel would have been a massive QoL buff for our beloved zephyr.

 

This, is the issue. We are tired of being asked specifically what it is we want about a specific frame that we choose to sink time into, only for the things we ask for in direct relation to being asked what we want, being given to another frame without so much as a "sorry bruh it wouldn't have worked" as a response.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Sylphaeri said:

Ad hominems aside, can we all just agree that maybe Zephyr should have a bit more control over tailwind than right now? Even something like a restricted turning-arc where she banks to one side while turning would be pretty awesome to see, and it'll feel more fun to control than the straight-line tailwind we have right now.

That is something I can definitely get behind as a starting point, sure.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Oreades said:

Which raises a question since Titania gets targeted by Anti Archwing weapons on the Plains ...... does Hyldrin get equally OMGWTFBBQ ROFLSTOMPED by the same AA attacks when she's in hover mode?

Or did they ever actually fix that for Titania? 

I wish I could tell ya. As is my computer has gone the route of toasterdom and as such barely able to play content of the plains and not even able to enter the valis. However, before hand I would also be targetd by AA guns on the plains as Titania, so hopefully they fixed that.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, simplygnome said:

Its also that Zephyr is not new. She doesnt make people work/grind/spend plat anymore, even with flight.

So its more business for DE when they create new frames.
Im SURE theyll get more enhancements at some point, but who know when that will actually be.

That's the thing: "eventually" has been a word we toss around a lot. It's why the forums exploded when her prime came up as she was getting a balance pass. iirc zephyr's prime access didn't do well at all, but I'd need hard numbers to nail that one down.

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, bibmobello said:

I don't understand where is the problem. They showed his abilities few months ago and he/she/it floated, surely was not flying. 10 pages post to say what?

Because the small community of zephyr players who actually play the frame have been requesting these exact systems for YEARS but she doesn't get them and not one but two frames do. That is the issue.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, sleepychewbacca said:

The minority can do what they want to do. Everyone has the freedom to express their opinion. 

But if the majority does not follow/sympathise/agree with, etc, significant and constructive discourse will probably not happen. More so when and issue is concluded to be trivial.

Of course that's my opinion. 

yeh, I can't argue with that. That's been the biggest issue so far, being that the Zephyr community is exceptionally small, and the majority of us have given up on DE listening to what we, the ones who play the frame, have to say.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, simplygnome said:

Also the title probably helped it get moved to General.

Wait a week, and then submit a 'Proposed Zephyr Suggestions' thread in the feedback and try again.  
Bullet point your ideas
Try not to be harsh or accusatory towards DE

See if maybe that gains more tractions, because yeah, they definitely have the technology now to make flying frames work.

It's a tactic I've tried before with little to no effect, however I might as well considering the circus this thread turned into.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, bibmobello said:

What do you mean? i am serious. My friend Pinky told me that!

If you're going to continue posting in this thread please at least contribute something meaningful, even if it's disagreement. Otherwise please stop.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, sleepychewbacca said:

Probably cause there's not much care towards the issue you presented. 

Hence the lack of serious replies. 

So because the majority doesn't care the minority shouldn't either? Is that your logic? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely asking.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, simplygnome said:

I wouldnt mind flight on Zephyr, though I really want a toggleable 3, and lower innate energy on 4 first.

I like how the 1 functions, but it would be nice if it could be used longer for the energy.  Like the first use starts an X second duration ability and any additional uses of 1 are free during those X seconds.

But yeah, fill flight could be fun with her.

It would also make target fixation worth using since it resets the instant you touch the ground...

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, bibmobello said:

Man i understand you. Please be strong, DE said the next frame, Fartis,  can fly using his own farts you have only to wait few months and buy 1000$ kit full optional with his pink tutu, fairy wings and sexy pants.

You do realize you're not doing anything but make yourself look foolish right? You're not contributing to an opposition or support. You're effectively standing int he middle and twiddling your thumbs.

[We need to talk, DE.]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

It's something called common sense. Read your own posts and try to reflect on them.

I have. And the overwhelming majority of my responses are towards strawmen arguments and people who do not possess enough reading comprehension skills to understand what "this is the situation as I see it and I hope I'm wrong but this is what it looks like to me" means.

[We need to talk, DE.]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)Cubic Clem said:

It was moved because of your attitude.

is that so non-moderator? What other secrets that nobody could know unless the perpetrator declared their intent are you in possession of?

 

[We need to talk, DE.]

3 minutes ago, Kai said:

The Feedback Forums is certainly the right spot, while it might not garner attention from other players like this one in GD, DE certainly takes their time to read them (unproven, but hey, they made that for a reason!). Reddit is also a hot place, but the link is certainly the only place to provide an appropriate feedback without having unwanted discussions that would potentially pull the main topic away.

Another thing to hope, usually when they release Deluxe Skins or Prime Versions (in which case Zephyr already has her Prime), they would fine tune some stuff on the warframe. So we still have hope for Zephyr by the time her Deluxe Skin comes out.

Thing is, This thread was originally posted in feedback. Why it was moved here and remains here is beyond my comprehension, but I do agree that it should be in feedback.

See, the thing that has me frustrated is the lack of understanding on my part as to the decisions made regarding zephyr titania and hyldrin in relation to aviation. Garuda was used as an example earlier, and she does have a form of temporary levitation, but cannot command a descent or ascent, So I'm not trippin on that.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Kai said:

With the recent discussion in Devstream where they showed Wisp and her new sprint animation, I'm pretty sure they referred it as legs. This knowledge while accessible to anyone, isn't necessarily important to the creation of the warframe, nor will it interest players who doesn't share the same passion as you do - that is to say, while it may be common for you and anyone who has experience and knowledge in the same field to know this facts, it doesn't apply to this game.

While I know your reasoning is that Zephyr has this features that should allow her to finer aerial maneuvers, even to the point of bringing up facts and subjects that can support it. It wasn't necessary, simply stating that Zephyr needs better aerial controls and maneuvers is enough. Players and DE (probably) knows that Zephyr's aerial maneuver is really bad in tight spaces (a.k.a, anything that is not PoE or Orb Vallis). 

 

 

You raise a very valid point. So my question is then what is someone to do when they've done as you and several others have suggested, but the request gets ignored for one frame, but the ideas and suggestions for said frame are super imposed onto another? That's why I've made this thread.

My flight mechanic (not sure if you had the chance to read it yet) actually rectifies those flight issues, with some fine tuning in the "on paper" department it would be a fully functioning skill with no hallway deteriments.