[We need to talk, DE.]

2 minutes ago, seprent said:

dont mind me im here with another weird bird 

so this thread has turned into why can hildryn fly and zephyr cant or is just now let zephyr fly please?

if so perhaps change your title so people can be more on point with the topic when they com in to say something

oh it's still very much on the why can hyldrin and titania have controlled flight but not zephyr. We just got derailed a bit by someone who thought they were going to call me out on false declarations.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Kai said:

Can you provide a link that DE confirmed that Zephyr's body is covered in this thing you call Flight Surfaces. I may lack the knowledge you have in regards to this, but I'm pretty sure if DE wants to make a flying rock, they can do so and has no responsibility to explain how they can do it for a game they've created.

 

 

sure. Look at her body.

Also I appreciate that you at least  were willing to try to understand where I'm coming from, so for that thank you.

And yes, if they wanted to make a flying rock they can conjure any excuse to do so. My issue is two frames have a more reliable and controlled method of flight than the frame that has the thematics and visual representation of those thematics, when all the linkage to make tailwind into a fully functioning enjoyable flying skill are already present in the mechanic as it is.

 

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/atoms/files/axes_control_surfaces_5-8.pdf

This should give you a decent look into what a flight surface is and how they function.

as far as a direct link from DE stating that it is indeed flight surfaces, is something I don't have. But to that I say it's plain as day to anyone with knowledge, and not so much to those who don't. That's not a jab, just an observation.. So, at the risk of sounding sarcastic without the intent of being sarcastic, I say this :do we have any links that indicate the legs of a warframe are in fact, legs?

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Exia0321 said:

To the OP...

 

I will join your fight...eventhough Zephyr is my bottom used frame.

I admire your passion. 

I appreciate your logic.

Okay no really, 

I just want more flying and umm yeah Zephyr should fly. 

 

So come on DE lets get that augment mod that gives Zephyr flight. 

To be honest if tailwind gave sustained flight target fixation would likely be one of the more potent 1 slot auggies

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Kai said:

So, any aircraft should be able to create tornadoes at will? In this fantasy game where you can slaughter everything with a sneeze. I initially looked at Zephyr as a flying frame when she first came out, but then as the game progressed, she became a wind-based warframe (which was her original concept, it wasn't a bird frame). Look at Garuda, named after a mythical bird and has talons, yet she can't fly, simply because she's blood-based with small elements similar to a bird. Zephyr looks like a bird, but her kit defines her as a wind-based warframe. That's pretty much it. You really can't argue with that, that's just how it is. Look, even the ancient concept of Zephyr's Deluxe Skin made her look like a horse-thing with wings. 

The anger I'm expressing in this post isn't necessarily aimed at you, as opposed to the umpteenth time I've had to point out that  I'm not making the damned comparison to her being a bird and therefore must fly so please stop with the damned strawman arguments!?

Tornadoes are a result of the control of wind. What does Zephyr control?  WIND. What is her body covered in?  FLIGHT SURFACES. How do flight surfaces(airfoils) work? Air flowing over the curved section of the surface creates low pressure zones thus creating lift.

This is literally a simple math solution of 1+1=2.

1: Control over air+2.Flight surfaces covering your body=3. controlled flight.

 

What is so difficult to grasp about this?

[We need to talk, DE.]

16 minutes ago, DigitalMist said:

Who are you to dictate what frames can fly and what frames are grounded?

Someone with actual experience in the fields represented in the thematics of a warframe covered in flight surfaces that has direct control over wind which is the exact thing that gives lift.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, DigitalMist said:

This entire thread is 

Who in their mind cares if Hildryn can fly? Hildryn is garbaggio with a remotely useful ability to spawn energy when in a squad.

Who are you to dictate what other people should view as important? 

[We need to talk, DE.]

31 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Red herring. Also, you can claim to be whatever you want on the internet. I am under no obligation to believe you. So yes, it all amounts to ego. Answer my questions.

 

Irony.

This is so much fun!

- ME, in the borrom right corner of the picture, just at the end of the left wing.

Me looking at your post in confusion.

Me looking at my own profile to make sure I am who I am.

Me showing off how adorable I am

Me looking at you because the balls in your court now 🙂

 

Also, what question? can she fly or not? by technicality of physics? sure. Is it Controlled flight? not so much. Is controlled flight what is desired not only by myself but also other players? yep.

 

[We need to talk, DE.]

2 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

So...can she fly or can't she? Which is it? Seems you don't even know. Here, let me help you: Tail Wind.

And there it is. It is all about epeen for you. Since I have provided valid counterpoints to everything you've said (with easy to read resources), who I am or what I do shouldn't matter. The fact that it does to you means that you can go back to burying your head in the sand and continuing with your narrative. Have fun with that. You're free to draw any (incorrect) conclusions you wish from hereon out. Seems that's all you wish to do anyway.

I'm sorry but is this bizarro world where when someone says they might be a subject matter expert on something and they're asked about if it is true it's somehow about ego?

Let me put something clearly out so you cannot misunderstand it.

I. Am. A. Former. Pilot. Knowing aviation was my job. I am speaking from actual experience in the field.

YOU made the claim that you "could be" an aerospace engineer. But the instant I ask if you actually are what you said you "might be" as a reference to declare more knowledge and experience, you buckle. Interesting.

Now then, I DO know the difference. Do you? Her tailwind counts as true flight and her passive counts as gliding, based on your own example provided.

59 minutes ago, Mysticwoolie said:

Wow. 

Feedback, by the way, is best served constructive.

This, is not constructive.

and I have to agree with previous mentions; hovering does not equal flight. Surely both states are airborne, but you cant be serious if you think that that one ability, which is close to stationary, can be considered flight.

You've never heard of a helicopter or vtol aircraft before, have you?

 

In case anyone is curious about why I'm frustrated over this, it's the equivalent of a customer arguing with an experienced mechanic after watching a youtube video or two on how to change out a timing belt.

[We need to talk, DE.]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

If you want to take the epeen route, I could say I'm an aerospace engineer, and thus know more than you.

It's good to educate yourself on the matter. Have a look at the different types of flight, specifically unpowered flight. 

Also, since you want to bring semantics (with your nonsense about "actual" vs. "true") into this, at no point does the description of Zephyr or her abilities revolve around "true" flight. It merely speaks about taking flight.

But feel free to take the short-sighted approach, It's the only way your narrative has any hope to stay afloat.

Considering she's flying under her own power, that would be true flight, and her passive would qualify as your unpowered squirrel flight. 

Question is, are you an aerospace engineer? 

[We need to talk, DE.]

8 hours ago, Zeclem said:

words

I'm home from work now. Ready to be proven wrong?

[We need to talk, DE.]

2 hours ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Who are you to define what 'actual flight' is? There are different forms of flight. Just because the other forms do not match your misguided, preconceived notions of what flight should be (ie. perpetual motion in the air) does not inherently disqualify them as legitimate forms of flight.

The very first statement in the article I linked says: Gliding flight is heavier-than-air flight without the use of thrust.

Who said I'm the one who was defining it? But, since you asked, I could say I'm simply one with experience and knowledge to know what I'm talking about

 

Edit: My mistake for using the word "actual" instead of "true"

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Bingo. Op is being obtuse on purpose.

Might wanna read my last post, and Bully for you for claiming the literal unknowable. You're not helping here. Please be on topic or remove yourself from the thread. Thank you. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Gliding flight.

Want to try again?

Sure. Gliding flight cannot gain altitude unless using thermal updrafts. You can gain incremental altitude only temporarily with the methods in your  link. Powered flight, which is actual flight, can attain higher altitude under its own power in greater increments unaided by thermals. 

Good article though. 

Edit:  your flying squirrel example is noted by your own source to be unable to gain altitude. So, as I said, incomparable. 

 

Second edit: I know most this offhand because I was a pilot in the army. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

The trailer says "It's fight and flight, Tenno." It's a play on "fight or flight." Given that Hildryn has actual thrusters, I seriously do not see the issue here. Thrusters allow individual to take to the air and hover, that is their purpose. Zephyr can, by virtue of being lightweight and her abilities, take to the air and literally fly for a period of time (think flying squirrel).

This entire thread is a non-issue.

Flying squirrels don't actually fly though. They glide. Entirely different. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

30 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

you come up with the claim that animation locks exist. go prove it to me. its your job, not mine.

actually they make quite a sizable part of the gameplay since open fields contain the only traces of "endgame" content we have, and there are quite a few large open spaces in a few tilesets as well. 

did you even read what you post? you have been blaming de with favoritism and how much they suck at making this game. both are pretty damn false. how is it now bashing?

holy crap you arent even worth replying after this. 

Sure. As soon as I get off work I'll be happy to invite you to the simulacrum and demonstrate that you are wrong. 

The only thing I said about favoritism is that it is wrong. I'm guessing you haven't seenthe video from Rehetalius pointing out some of the same issues I'm mentioning here and now. 

It's not bashing because I've made it clear from the beginning that open top being corrected if I'm wrong, by the developers. You, don't speak for them.

Whether or not the plains and vallis are your definition of endgame is irrelevant. It's not even part ofthe topic. The only relevance those locations have is in relation tothe argument that zephyr is fine because plains exist. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

2 hours ago, Zeclem said:

you can but k

what proof? 

except your "proposition" is nothing but bashing de cus hildryn can hover. thats the topic of this thread. 

its not exactly a waste in open fields, so git gud i guess?

no, i wont. im not gonna read a "proposal" written in a childlike tantrum. 

Then by all means, demonstrate that I'm wrong about animation locks. 

open fields aren't the majority of gameplay and therefore are an outlier and you don't balance against an outlier? 

there's been no bashing? 

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You dont understand feedback threads belong in the feedback forum so you?

If I had a dollar for every time somebody used the "slap in the face" metaphor around here. Jesus.

As mentioned several times before, the thread was moved here. 

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

The thread is clickbait. I expect more from people who have been around the game for a long time.

Then DE disagrees that flight should be part of Zephyr's kit. I must have imagined the threads of people who have a view of Razorwing that would not really be described as superior to Zephyr. Clearly you are the expert of whatever design for Zephyr that's in your head but it is clearly not the one DE has.

Your understanding is flawed. You are not DE's boss. You are not the only person to suggest changes to Zephyr. You are not the only player in the game. The arrogance to call your disagreement about a frame's design as some huge mistake that DE has made in developing the game is really stunning.

Nothing about your thread says you hope you are wrong.

Title is a direct call for conversation towards DE. The body of the post explains the reasoning for a discussion or explanation from De about the decisions they have made.

You're mistaking for hasty product release with desired and planned outcome.

You're right, i'm not their boss. I am however, a person who can observe patterns of behavior and note the flows. It's really not hard, having been present since the games release.

And when, for the umpteenth time, when a product is presented as "this thing flies!" but not really, and two NEWER models that ACTUALLY do the advertised effect for the initially mentioned product, yes it get irksome.

Then you need either better reading comprehension skills or a new set of glasses, because it's  right above my freaking name before the copy pasta of my rework. Thank you for again, showing that you didn't actually read anything presented in depth, nor give it anything close to even so much as a passing glance.You've been awarded no points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, (NSW)TeddyTalks said:

You are wayyyy to overzealous over a video game. You need a break.

And you are contributing nothing to the thread whatsoever.

[We need to talk, DE.]

5 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

I would think Founders would be better than this clickbait trash, but clearly I am wrong once again.

Very angry about a frame that hasn't even come out yet because he likes another frame while decrying favoritism from DE for... Zephyr? Titania? Not quite sure what he thinks DE is secretly plotting behind the scenes to do with either of them and why one frame needs to have something because another frame does.

Then a plug for his Zephyr changes that didn't get enough attention a year ago.

@ObviousLee you know you can edit titles of threads, right? Even get a mod to do it for you, if you don't want to do it yourself.

Opening with ad hominem, nicely done.

Yes, angry that a mechanic matching a thematic that I and MANY others have over the years asked to be included in the kit on, but were ignored only for not one but two frames have altered but superior versions of it. That would indeed usually anger someone when years go by of being ignored and what's being asked for is being put onto something new.

DE has a history of less than appealing decisions, of which they themselves have addressed. That being said, when it seems it's still happening, as mentioned in the OP that you likely failed to read in-depth(wouldn't blame ya honestly) where I mention that I'm hoping that my understanding of the situation is by my own admission hopefully a misunderstanding.

Thank you for putting me through the hell of having to explain in detail so explicit it's likely to register a triple x rating just to get you to understand what "I hope i'm wrong" means.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, Ascarith said:

What if we sort of combine some ideas:

 

Could potentially trigger "flight mode" by aim gliding and holding 1 (such complicated :S). If you just aim glide and don't hold 1, it works as normal aim gliding. If you just aim glide and tap 1, you Tailwind ("rocket") as normal. In other words, no bamboozling non-Zephyr player with weird default aim glide changes. If you hit 1 (hold) while aim-gliding, you're now in "flight mode." Letting go of 1 kills all your momentum and lets you hover. Holding 1 again lets you resume flight. Aim Glide affects the duration you can be in "flight mode" (including hover time) and maybe parkour mods affect your speed. 

The awkwardness will be if you trigger "flight mode" and want to stop being zoomed (because aim glide) or get out of "flight mode." Preferably I'd like to not be stuck in aim-glide-zoom, so if we can unzoom then we need exit options for "flight mode." I guess you could roll out, Dive Bomb or ground slam out like you can currently? Still seems pretty clunky that way though. Maybe have it end if you touch the ground? All of them? 😕

 

See one thing I see as a potential issue is the "hold 1 to fly" as the positioning is rather awkward on keyboards especially if you're banking via a or d so to that end that's why I feel using charge up to engage the flight mode would work best. i'm trying to stick to "minimal input maximum output" as a methodology here and adding an extra keybind to make it happen just makes it need more to do the dew so to speak.

 

but if parkour mods were to effect the maximum flight speed instead of power strength or duration, then that would at least give a reason for obscure mods to have a purpose.

so how about we redress it like this: charging up tailwind engages hover and any directional inputs after the hover has been engaged allows for travel in the desired direction, and a boost multiplier being added for sprint?

One of my earliest incarnations for flight mod had something akin to a gearbox that would have you engage the flight mode for a slow to start forward momentum and holding sprint+w or s would accelerate/decelerate you accordingly.

[We need to talk, DE.]

1 minute ago, WindigoTG said:

The game exist now because of this guy.

He proooooooobably deserves his right for a feedback.

Although I appreciate the notion,I'm not arrogant enough to believe for a second that I'm personally responsible. It was founders, and non-founders together putting money forth for a product we all took immense interest. This game is still here because of everyone, free player to founder.

 

2 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

You bamboozled me a bit with the Titania/Archwing comparison, but I got it now (I think). It does strike me as something of a "aim glide plus (prime maybe?)." 

My big problem with that implementation is that it's still difficult to navigate regular tiles with Tailwind efficiently. You'd have to charge up the flight mode if you want to not "rocket" into walls. If you want a quick dash, you're still stuck with "rocket" mode. Unsure if aim-to-hover stops "rocket" Tailwind, but I think that would still be a little clunky because of how ridiculously fast "rocket" mode is. 

My small problem is you can't move while you're charging the hover. At least if I'm remembering correctly. I never use hover in combat so entirely possible I'm off my rocker.

Can't speak to the Target Fixation because I have no experience with it (my face can only take so much punishment).

you raise a valid point. So then, what would you suggest changing the stat for fli.....wait a second. What about basing movement speed on, and I know this may sound crazy but bear with me on this.....utility mods? I'm brainstorming but it's just an idea, toss it around you're collective melons and lemme know whatcha think?

 

4 minutes ago, Scruffel said:

I somewhat see you are coming from, "Why doesn't a bird frame fly when this non flying-themed frame can?". Now if this was just the discussion then I would be fine with that.

Personally, I just see it as two different ways of flying. Zephyr flies extremely fast in a single direction with her 1st ability (I understand it's not the best but I am not really arguing around proficiency around a move nor how it's done, just whether or not it's considered flying) and Hildryn can technically fly with her 4th ability and it's a pretty slow hover with a jetpack-like mechanic. I can see that you do not see Zephyr's 'flying' as proper flying or what you determine as it, but I feel like it's just a general preference issue. While you may not see it as flying, someone else might instead.

But you somewhat go on about how DE doesn't like Zephyr anymore because of how they are catering to this new and shiny *Hildryn*. It feels like an over-exaggeration on something that is not really confirmed at all. Again, I feel like you are seeing this from a personal perspective, and while I am trying to respect your view, I can't really agree nor really understand it. You could point to a Warframe like Vauban or Ember as being examples of DE abandoning a Frame, but it's probably not in hatred nor angst towards it. It's probably just neglect, which honestly considering DE's record, is not that far off from being the answer. There are probably tens to hundreds of claims or statements made by DE that were never followed up on, even if they 'technically' did with negative community reception (like for example, Vauban's "rework").

I can see how you bothered by how it seems like DE is clearly giving up on a Warframe and pushing it aside because a new one's coming, but honestly there is probably zero concrete evidence of that. I am not disagreeing on the fact that Zephyr could use an eventual rework and maybe some way to fit in the flying mechanic to her, but coming to the conclusion that this Warframe is being spat on by the developers is going a bit too far. Their priorities are probably just set onto different paths right now, as per usual.

As mentioned in my op, this is merely my perception of the situation as a whole.

This is what it feels like. I cannot declare it to be without actual proof. So that's why I refer to it as a feeling. This Is what I think they look at the situation as, due to years of similar rework requests "seemingly" going on ignored until judgement day: prime access. Thing is, they did take a couple suggestions from veteran zephyr users, like Air burst was conjured into existence by a Zephyr player with borderline unprecedented xp. Cannot for the life of me remember the name other than it was feminine and the player had around 400m affinity on her. Tornado damage mechanics were of my own suggestion as well(and were plastered onto hydroid before hand with slightly altered values.

The issue though, is the overwhelming majority wanted some form of flight that was sustained and what we got was what I refer to as "turkey mode". It just feels like when a singular exceptionally unpopular warframe is about to undergo the knife it'd behoove the surgeons to fix all the issues, not fix a good chunk of em and "botch" the last leg of the job.

 

[We need to talk, DE.]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Mono-Pop said:

I’m sorry that people are attacking you on this thread, posts like this really bring out the scum in force.

So many threads get derailed by people going out of their way to be toxic.

What you’ve outlined here makes perfect sense, Zaryaframe has enough going for her that she doesn’t need to steal another frames gimmick.

Not only steal, but do it better.

I get that DE need to make exciting content to bring people in, but there are so many frames that have been left behind. Or worse, broken by weak reworks.

I hope Zephyr gets the changes she needs, because Zarya frame shouldn’t be making flappy frame obsolete.

It happens. Comes with the territory of throwing an idea into the wild and seeing how its taken in.

As mentioned before, I've no issue with Hyldrin flying. I do however have an issue with Hyldrin getting controlled flight, Titania having controlled flight, but Zephyr has....tailwind =/

This thread is just an effort to fix this.

[We need to talk, DE.]

3 minutes ago, Ascarith said:

I did read it, but to be honest, I'm not sure I understood it. I don't say this to be critical (as I think there many solid ideas in there), I just think there's a lot going on and I might just be dumb (and/or my reading comprehension went to bed already). And it might make some of my points irrelevant.

I'm mostly confused by what "hold 1" does. It sounds like you're saying we "hold 1" to charge, and the charge effect is that we can fly around like Titania/archwing? If that's the case, then I think the transition period/animation would be really jarring (although the initial animation can happen while you're charging, the end animation is going to be annoying (to me anyways)). How does aim-to-hover work if I'm in "flight mode?" How does aiming work in "flight mode?" 

[Random suggestion in spoiler of where I thought you were going and totally did not go (again, not being critical, just got bamboozled)]

  Reveal hidden contents

You got me thinking about some kind of reverse charge mechanic though. If you push and hold 1, you just get a somewhat slower Tailwind that goes where your cursor is - the charge gauge appears when you trigger it and counts down your remaining (powered) flight time. Then aim-to-hover makes sense to me, since you could use this to hover (and pause the flight gauge) and pew pew some people. Subsequent hold-1-casts would let you reposition in the air (if needed) and could possibly be made cheaper (or free if it sucks up all the energy for a current hover charge on initial cast). You lose powered flight when the gauge expires, you lose hover when your aim glide runs out, both refresh when you touch the ground. You can still "rocket" (tap 1) all day (well, as long as you have energy).

Maybe allow hip fire during powered flight for some cool hit and run tactics (but mostly because I may or may not pretend I am a bomber when I have an explosive weapon equipped). 

Possibly allow chaining a hold-1-cast after a tap-cast. "Rocket" covers ground quickly, hold-1-cast (to decelerate and) for more granular control as you get closer to where you want to be. Both can be stopped by aim-to-hover (if I understood you on the "rocket" functionality correctly), so you'd only use the hold-cast to get some more fine positioning before you decide to hover (or land).

My other source of confusion is what the "S" key does (Azmagon's suggestion). Mostly because you copied your text so I can't track down Azmagon's post. Largely unsure how to reconcile the "S" key with the content before it, and also how momentum works with the "resume flight." Actually not even sure what mode of "flight" we're talking about here.

Some other thoughts that may or may not be relevant depending on my level of comprehension:

• Tying Tailwind to power strength might still be problematic. I'm bad enough at Archwing navigation and I run a fair amount of power strength (for Jet Stream). Especially if the speed is compounded by Jet Stream, I can imagine the "happy medium" speed being "I hit all the things and died."
• Divebomb on direct contact might work, but I'm not sure it's necessary if we can just stop Tailwind when we want. I'd probably be just as angry when Divebomb some random protrusion as when I currently get stuck on it while Tailwinding. I think my biggest complain with Divebomb functionality is just the angle feels inconsistent for me. Things I think should be a Divebomb aren't (thus faceplanting across the tile), or else I think maybe this angle is good enough to bounce off the floor and send me through a straightaway but I just Divebomb and there goes my momentum. I think it would play out similarly on walls/ceilings.
• I do like the no-stop on enemy contact for Tailwind. Initially I thought spammable knockdown on a cheap ability might be overkill, but I guess Banshee does this without needing to throw herself at enemies. Inb4 we go for the knockdown on a heavy and just get ground pounded out of it (but that's just WF ;)). Gives you some leeway on missing the Divebomb angle too (at least you probably knocked down somebody as you smear your face on the ground). 

Well first off, thank you for taking not only the time to read but also to address in a polite and inquisitive manner. Glad to see someone wants to understand what i've in mind.

 

So, in regards to the chargeup, it would effectively yield the same result as it does now, but the hover isn't the end of the charges effect.

what I mean is for those who like it, as is, you still get the function of it as is. Nothing changes for you.

However, if you wish to move in this flight mode you can, you gain moderate movement speed (actual speed values in either mode of movement are entirely up for debate) similar to titania's, but with the benefit of using your own weapons. so in this instance it functions similar to Titania but without the size reduction. Shift, like sprint, is your boost which will give you the speed you desire.

Basing it off str could be problematic, I agree. So that being said the speed drain and damage values would need to be adjusted accordingly. If there's a problem in this particular situation I'm not seeing point it out to me by all means.

Aiming would work similarly to how it does during the hover, but during lets call it "starscream" mode, weapons aim at the front.

She can still make use of the less casting cost on powers during the flight. The real boon here would be target fixation would be a truly viable augment as it gets a 60% power str increase to the ability for every enemy hit in your wake.

 

I must clarify that divebombs effects will be in the direction of travel when collision happens. So the impact force in the situation of even level flight would be forward should you ram into something.

Just now, (XB1)The Neko Otaku said:

This seems to be a dumb thread thats just turning to a screaming match and why are feedback threads in gerneal again. 

it was moved here. Not by me.

so if you see no value in it, why bother to contribute and keep it at the top of the board?

Just now, seprent said:

easier to find for entertainment? more eyes to see it since people look at general then feedback? the person wasnt reading what sub forum they were posting too? they dont care? 

who knows all i know is i got to post bird and without being grossly off topic

And our story has another hero. Beautiful birb it was by the by.

[We need to talk, DE.]

Just now, youngjdef said:

lol dude you are throwing one of the biggest tantrums I've ever seen, get over yourself

literally implying rebecca may get death threats over zephyr if shes not changed

grow up

no, you're not using your brain to read words plainly written on the screen. There is no implication being made, this is something that has historically occurred several times in the past, specifically to rebecca over the vacuum change. I'm citing it as an event that has occurred due to unrestrained player outrage, and the developers caved as a result.

The fact you're declaring that I'm levying threats at the developers if I don't get my way, which is a direct opposite of what I put forth then it says a LOT more about you, than me.