DConagher
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Posts posted by DConagher
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My argument against this is that as you stated, Kavats and kubrows are already "reasonably powerful", while sentinel weapons even with rivens, are "less so". Regardless, a Kavat/Kubrow/Moa will last longer in higher leveled content than a Sentinel due to the [Link] mods and the ability to be revived, while a sentinel might have more "utility" on the surface, and requires far less tending to.
Moas are in my opinion the best companion currently, due to no needed credit maintenance or affection, as well as the ability to use both pet and sentinel mods on them. However, they lack the damage output of a Kubrow/Kavat, the "hands-free" aspect of the sentinel, and the utility offered by both the specific breeds/models of Pets/sentinels.
Additionally, sentinel weapons share mods with your primary/secondary weapons, so you can't run the same barrel diffusion on your deth machine rifle and your Opticor, as an example.-
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Not seeing anything related to Atlas/Khora/Gara, which is just a mild bit concerning. Buffs seem interesting to melee, and the new combo system might make stuff more interesting.
Not having the exilus for melee makes sense, but Im looking forward to when it drops. -
Awesome! Was about to post something about the bug here, glad to know fix is on it's way.
16 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:This is fixed in the Hotfix coming tomorrow!
On a "semi"-related note, Will say that I am *EXCITED* for Punch-lad Prime.
I'm hoping that, rather than an overhaul or kit rework, he gets some work done for his other Augments and a look at buffing landslides terrible Crit chance (or a decent up to its crit damage to compensate- Like the Nukor or Kubrows in general). Atlas as he is, he's a powerful warframe, and to be perfectly honest he probably doesn't NEED a rework. Just the ability to earn him without farming an Archwing assassinate is going to do wonders for his popularity.
Some simple fixes would (in my opinion) be all he really needs. True, I've brought up rework ideas for a while on various forum posts, but to be honest I can't spend hundreds of hours on a frame and then say he NEEDS a total overhaul. Simply uncapping rubble (Or a higher limit- maybe some kind of small scaling damage based on the rubble you have?), maybe a new second ability on the extreme end, and some touch ups to his augments- I think he'd see a massive usage increase. He's already a lot better than when I first picked him up, after the changes he got to his 3, and with the introduction of rubble, so all I am is excited!
Another option if Atlas was to be buffed is looking directly at Landslide.
Landslide having a 5%CC, comparing it to i.e Khoras Whipclaw (and the augments for our comparable 1st "exalted" abilities) feels a bit bad, currently- maybe add a boon there?
Even if I can hit incredibly hard, and am Invulnerable during cast, landslide also doesn't have a good status chance- Whipclaw has both high crit and status chance, by comparison, along with an IPS spread.
The Tekko Prime are gonna be awesome, though, and maybe using the Tekko Prime could give Landslide a crit buff similar to how Atlas gives the weapon a base status chance increase?
Would help compensate for the lower disposition the Tekko offers compared to the current statsticks (i.e Amphis,Jaw Sword, Kogake Prime), and would open up a lot more build paths for him! It wouldn't even need to be too crazy of a crit buff, as Landslide already does have the insane damage and makes you invulnerable on use- It has its advantages, but I would just like for crit to be not so much of a wasted stat when you're building for your punch, personally! -
Little bump to bring up
A: HIS PRIME IS NO LONGER DELAYED :D!
and B: Here's a thought- What if DE combined his 2 into his 4, call it Terraform, and basically make them one ability? Could function like wisps buffs or khora cat, tap cast to make a wall, hold cast to make a golem, with a summon limit of like, 4, and then give him a new second ability? New 4 could also be an interesting use to spend your rubble.
He's a *Brawler* frame, not just a boxer... maybe a new kick attack for his 2? Almost seems like it could be fused with landslide, but the idea of them being separate has some cool aspects to it. The boot could function similar to landslide, and in the process open up a neat way to add some more animations/options- effectively creating his own MMA type stance: Have it be a 3-5 hit combo (kinda like landslide does now with its 0-2-4, probably stick with about the same numbers here), made up of either his 1 or his new 2.The cool part is that these various attacks could do different effects on the last hit based on the build-up.
Landslide as of right now is a 1.R. straight, then 1.L.hook, then 1.R. uppercut loop.
What if he, as an example, did a 1.R. Straight, followed by a 2. left kick, and led that maybe into a 2.right roundhouse, as a basic 1-2-2 combo?
Or maybe he leads with a more or less 2."Falcon" kick, followed by a quick short 1.uppercut and then a 1.left straight, as a 2-1-1? Most of the animations could probably be pulled from the Sparring and Fist weapon stances fairly easily, and the last hit effects could be something as simple as reduced damage with more range, increased rubble gen from kills, maybe one that costs rubble to hit harder. It'd be cool to see your Rumblers mimic you as well. Get a decent group of golems together and you'd be a squad of monks practicing martial arts as you combo your way through the vessels. I'd LOVE to see one big boot that launches people into orbit, like the old Sonicor, or Boros giving Saitama the free ride to the moon.
It would be a lot of data and combinations, but aside from the complexity of hitting 1 then 2 then 2 again, instead of 1.1.1 (and,you'd still have the 1.1.1 combo!), it shouldn't be too drastic a change. And that also could let his 1 and new 2 have different interactions with his new 4th, allowing you to landslide into the wall to roll it like a boulder (Like we can now, no loss of function if you like playing Rolling Stones), or landslide into a golem to do aoe damage and disperse it for rubble. I'd love to be able kick into the golem to wear it (GIVE US THE CONCLAVE MOD FOR PVE, PLEASE!!!!!) and maybe kicking into the wall bounces you in the direct the walls facing? (I don't know about this one, I'd love some feedback/ideas)
Honestly, some of this is my own wants of just more animations to do, as I've probably used landslide alone atleast a few hundred thousand times by now, what with my average abilities used even per short mission being commonly over 1k.
I think this string of sense could have some merit though, and him being able to sort of "Build" his own combo attacks off his various kicks and punches could be really neat, + this idea doesn't drastically change his character or playstyle- just expands on it a bit. Thoughts? 😄 -
42 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:
When I suggest that rubble be uncapped, i also mention the need to reduce the amount per piece, and give it the concept of having abilities scale off your total rubble, being buffed by your current amount and taking a percentage, but changing how the ability works as well (such as making tectonics a ring if you have enough rubble or making petridy an aoe). Thats why I suggest a uncapped rubble, not just fir the armor
^ Basically this. Part of the original concerns brought up with the rubble changes was that Atlas has it a bit difficult according to some to generate his rubble, so I neglected to include that in the 2nd proposed list. As for it taking a %, that might make it annoying to farm up a reasonable amount when every ping takes off a chunk of your stock.
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4 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:
Do you know how much DR another 1500 would add? 3%
My point is that I don't think uncapping Rubble would bring that much benefit. Armor has diminishing returns. Atlas surviving in a fight pretty much relies on him properly using his invulnerability phase, and also Petrifying tough enemies so they DON'T damage him - Not to mention Rumblers and Tectonics are both supposed to help mitigate what damage he takes. (both abilities, obviously, are where his kit falls short right now
What you mention about the armor is part of reason I wanted it un-capped instead of just "flat number". Its not going to change much "damage resistance wise" having 3,000 rubble instead of 1,500, as you've said. You would still have retarded survival, so totally "Uncapping" it *could* have that issue.
My main worry is based off current day. Even with the decay rate changed, Its not "easy" to maintain at exactly 1500 rubble. Increasing the amount Atlas can "hold" would let him have more freedom of use with his new rubble focused abilities, especially since I accidentally made his 2 and 4 costs a bit too low in my proposed options in the second changelist. The goal was for his 4 to cost about 500, and for all of his 2 creations together to cost anywhere from 250-500. Spending 2/3rds of your available rubble, easy to generate or not, in exchange for some very impactful abilities, is still reasonably expensive. Setting his cap to that 3,000 mark you mentioned puts it to 1/3rd your cap. I'd rather not just reduce the cost of his 2 and 4 to be 1/3rd of your 1,500 cap, because I want it to actually be you spending rubble to accomplish things.
I want rubble to have some truly felt force in what he does, rather than just being another Nidus.
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9 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:
Another thing to discuss, atlas has a lot of weird stats that dont make sense.
Things like landslide range not scaling with range mods (only the explosion radius scales), as @DConagher just said, it has a base crit and status of 5%, but those cant be increased by mods (Only time i can think of reliably critting was when a harrow 4 let me hit head shot, oh boy I was red critting in the millions), rubble picked up not overflowing into armor if you have barely any hp missing, bulwarks blocking damage but not explosions, petrify FoV being unaffected by range mods, only length of cone is affected, and finally petrify duration is affected by duration mods, unless the petrify is from the rumblers AoE petrify, which is unaffected.
If atlas could get these weird stats evened out, as well as changes to his kit, and even his augments maybe (plz, no one uses ore gaze or path of statues, and ive only seen titanic rumbler once) he would be in such a better spot
You're right @CommanderC2121, his weird stats are there, and giving him some crit love would be neat; Before any of that though, Augments! I brought it up a bit earlier, and you're right, his augments are kinda garbo for this state of the game. And, with these possible ability reworks, his augments would need some new love.
Path of Statues used to be go-to back in the day (Old *channeled* petrify era), because you didn't have other cc options. Now that his kit has other CC, how about Path of Statues increases your next punches damage for every petrified enemy you've killed? Maybe the *augment* lets him gain some base damage for landslide, based on his rubble?
His new 2 could still work off Tectonic Fracture, just that now it'd have to be more than "get a size-able increase in your evocation limit" from the augment- His base would be 5, but we probably don't want 15 or 20 rumblers running around, fun though it might be. Maybe something to the vein of the Monlith totem armor buff affecting your Rumblers and walls, and applying more armor based on *your* rubble, along with your rumblers now taunting enemies?
His 3rd augment needs to be more than just loot generation. The adds scans to codex is nice, but it needs something else, or at least ACTUAL loot gen. What would you all recommend for it?
His 4th augment of course would need to be removed and re-printed, since rumblers would be part of his 2- His Vesuvius augment could be that it scales off of, and enemies hit by it add to, your melee combo, making it sort of a Combo-builder/Breaker, and letting it do some more *respectable* damage. -
5 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:
Im one of the people who will say no to making atlas 1 exalted. In its current state it does suck trying to min-max stats due to having, well no visible stats, but the amount of things you lose out on due to it being classified as exalted, like rivens, some augments, etc, are a heavily toll. One reason atlas is as good as he is is due to just dealing sooo much damage with his 1, and any changes I fear would hurt that damage significantly
Basically that^
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53 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:
The rubble currently works like this. Each point of rubble gives you 1 more armour up to 1500.
My idea would be, 1 rubble point per armour till 1500, then you double the amount of rubble needed to get 1 more armour for every 500 over the current 1500.So the first 1500 you get when you have 1500 rubble. To get to 2000 armour you need to get 2500 rubble. To get to 2.5k you need to get 4.5k rubble. To get to 3k you need 8.5k, for 3.5k armour 16.5k rubble etc
Ah, I see. My question is then, why exactly? The rubble giving tonnes of armor, its never *easily* going to get to the simply obscene amounts needed for more than the 90-95% resistance threshold. and all of that work still isn't netting you too much extra mitigation.
53 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:About exalted landslide i just didn't explain myself properly. The ability mechanics would not change at all, it would just get its own mod screen and get access to all mods other exalted weapons gain access to, namely stuff like healing return, shattering impact, condition overload etc
Pick one. The ability can't work off shattering impact, Healing return, and condition overload and remain as it. Either you have separately modifiable *weapon* like Excal's blade, and make it a full on channeled exalted with stance combos.
OR
You have something like Garuda's Talons, where its a modified melee weapon to give you stats (by the sounds of it, still letting you have a normal melee weapon in addition), which would have to have a pointless stance mod or cost you capacity.
Both options in this scenario cost you rivens, if they become separately moddable. That on its own is a pretty major damage hit. If you use a statstick, again, you still lose the augment melee mods adding 100% damage, for things like the Dual Cleavers, Jaw Sword, Skana.
As it is, the reason shattering impact and condition overload with landslide isn't exactly perfectly clear, and having shattering impact on landslide would be cool, but a better point is that Atlas's landslide has piss poor status and crit chance (5% each) while comparable skills like Khoras whipclaw have SUBSTANTIALLY more than that- Whipclaw has a 2x crit multiplier as does Landslide, but while landslide has 5% crit and status chance, Whipeclaw has 20% crit and 25% status chance, base. Also, whipclaw benefits from both Range scaling aspects; target distance and explosion AoE, and has a FAAAAAAAAAAAAR better augment in the form of Accumulating Whipclaw. However, where it "falters" is that its damage is spread IPS wise, and it doesn't make you invulnerable on cast.
This makes Atlas's 350 base damage seem much higher than her base 300 because of the ability to mod it especially for 1 type. Impact becomes as good as pure damage to Atlas, but conversely, she could feasibly clear content better with her whip due to elemental scaling. Something to definitely consider would be buffing Atlas's Crit/Status chance. That would be something kinda neat that could come with his prime, actually, but I'd think it would be very unlikely they'd do such a thing.
53 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:The proc prevention is a problem when trying to fight higher end armoured mooks, because the only way to strip them of at least a portion of their armour is a kitty. Shattering impact not working on landslide makes it that much worse.
Btw iirc rubble already does come from path of statues petrification no?
As for this, I could see your argument with proc prevention, if there weren't ways to strip most of their armor with a click or 2, across multiple weapons. Strun Wraith, Drakgoon, or just about any pellet count shotty will do- The riven is Multi/Punchthrough/-Infested
and, Path of statues does give rubble currently....that's why I suggested it if you don't like his 3. Its a usable alternative.
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49 minutes ago, Autongnosis said:
Tbh i think atlas needs iteration more than substitution.
Rubble could honestly be uncapped as armour tanks are bad anyway, maybe with an exponential scaling? Like first 1500 is 1 rubble = 1 armour point, and then it doubles every 500 more (1-1500 1:1, 1501-2000 2:1, 2001-2500 4:1 etc). So you could theoretically accumulate endless amounts but with a soft cap.
Landslide is good but a) it needs to become a proper exalted weapon and b) there are some inconsistencies like healing return and shattering impact that make absolutely no sense.
Petrify is great but, like Avalanche, it really shouldn't make enemies immune to procs as at some point that becomes an hindrance more than a boon. It would be less problematic if not for the fact that rubble only comes from petrify and it's so capital to his kit.
Tectonics is meh in general, it would be better if it was at least big instead of this smallish square thingy. Personally I'd remove the tap to throw function and instead make landslide able to explode the wall outwards in a cone AoE, with the same dmg as landslide itself only fully puncture instead of fully impact.
Rumblers are a trickier one, a few ideas were making them into guardians (their AI basically prioritise bodyblocking bullets in your place) or having them do a lower powered version of landslide on the nearest enemy whenever you cast your own landslide.
The rubble being uncapped but with an armor point? How do you mean exactly? Something like the melee combo where it ramps up? I don't quite follow you.
As for the soft cap, being able to scale the actual rubble itself, with no other complex mechanics, will still net you rather scary armor potential.
With the Umbral Fiber 1 rank off max, with all 3 mods, it gets Atlas to 1,237 armor on my build currently. +1,500 from Rubble, if it can be maintained, and Arcane Guardian, you're going to be at that 10% damage taken threshold relatively easily.The purpose for uncapping it and changing it is so that if you stop maintaining, you can coast in that 1,500 range without needing to constantly kill things. My usual number I try to maintain, current game, is 1,200-1,300
Landslide having an exalted weapon is something I've been wondering about for a while, and something I've brought up on other threads before. The responses I've received have been less supportive of that, and I've grown to echo that position- Making it a dedicated "exalted ability" would be a mistake. If his 1 becomes a channeled Exalted ability, even if its more similar to Hildryn, at minimum it will lose the benefit of melee rivens. Gara, Khora, and Atlas are alone in that they benefited from Rivens, and I believe that is part of the reason they didn't receive the exalted treatment. Also, how will invulnerability work with it, if its a dedicated ability. Invuln until you turn off the weapon or run out of energy?
The best route I've seen brought up towards that end is Garuda and her Talons. Atlas could make use of something of that nature, but if any changes occur there he is almost certainly losing out on rivens, let alone any augment mods for stat-sticks like the Jaw Sword.
Rubble can come from the landslide augment as well, if you don't like his 3 even post rework. As for the immunity for procs, due to the damage calculations that petrify allows for, and the fact it doesn't remove procs or prevent their damage if they already exist, I've never seen any issue with it prevent status effects for its duration.
As for your tectonics idea, part of that is something that has been floating around for a while- Let landslide detonate the wall! Making it all puncture though....why exactly? If anything, why not have it split between the 3 IPS?
For Rumblers, the Ai isn't so much the biggest issue. They can bumble about and be as smart as the rocks that make them up all they want to. They just need to make some form of impact for it. As they are, they are reasonably tanky. Having them deal some form of damage and run around and soak, maybe taunting at base even, would give them a lot more "OOMPH" so to speak.
Drakewurrum earlier in this thread brought up the idea of Landslide letting your rumblers also landslide. If their landslide is to deal any real damage it will need mods, so having it cast only every 3rd punch or so, as well as just one of their random attacks,would balance them out quite nicely. As for them blocking bullets, that could be "useful" but then you'd have the issue of them getting in the way. -
This has turned into a very interesting thread, and given me a lot to think about pertaining to Atlas's 2.
On 2019-07-19 at 8:02 PM, Scruffel said:I know there are different ways to improve or 'update a frame', I just don't want Atlas to become a different Atlas, rather than a better one.
On 2019-07-19 at 10:21 AM, (PS4)CommanderC2121 said:Imagine being able to combo atlas abilities, having 4k rubble, jumping into a group of enemies and making a ring of tectonics around them, then petrifying the whole lot too. Talk about a thunderdome....thunder-ring?
On 2019-07-19 at 5:25 PM, DrakeWurrum said:I think if we keep Tectonics as creating more of a "fence" rather than a dome, it would be more feasible in that it still basically fits in line with what it already does, without outright cloning another frame's ability. Like what I suggested above:
Was just playing with Atlas and realized his walls are already Atlas height. And looking at it, I'm not sure it really needs to be taller, is just needs to actually be a decent length. So if it had a minimum radius of, say... 6 meters, and that scaled with range, to create 180 degrees of wall in the direction Atlas is facing, that would still be feasible for his current design.
There has been a lot of talk and some interesting concepts thrown around here. Being honest, you can't play a frame for hundreds of hours and love it, and ALSO want the frame changed to be a different frame entirely. If Atlas is fated to stick with his Tectonics and his Rumblers remain sub-par as minions (by comparison to things like Wukong's Specter), that isn't going to be the end of Atlas. Whether he gets buffed or not, or reworked or not, hes still going to be an awesome frame. I hope him being primed will make more people try him, now that hes not locked behind Archwing/plat gates. Hes in a much better place than when Brozime had a few ideas for a rework way back in 2017.
His Tectonics however, as an ability; is it not at least *kind of* lack-luster? Even with the augment, the 3 "fences" we throw up around an objective could never honestly compete with something like Snowglobe, or the Rift putting it in a separate dimension, or even to an extent, barricading it off with a wall of Glass, and without the augment, its only really great for 1 door or hallway. Rolling it as a boulder is never going to deal a significant damage output currently- certainly no where close to what we can do with *just *Landslide. It can be fun, and it has its limited uses, but does it have purpose and value enough to be there?
His Rumblers are ok, to be fair. They do their job of showing up, yeeting rocks at people, taking fire, and generating rubble. If they get left alone, cool. Yet again, however; they can be at least slightly expensive if you don't rock the efficiency for them, and Range/Duration being negatived for any reason does hurt the ability to a fair extent. And, yet again, the augment for them is simply not worth it. To an arguable degree, even Path of Statues isn't really worth the mod-slot either. If naught else were to happen to the frame, most of his augments could use some touching up.
But, in terms of non-augment changes and reworks, there have been a couple great ideas that have shown up here in this thread:
- Having your Rumblers landslide with you would be awesome!
- Having all your abilities scale off Rubble would tie the mechanic together nicely, and this is not the first time someone has brought up the idea to shotgun the walls (see Broz's vid)- That would give them an amazing purpose, as well as give him some more plausible AoE. I'd absolutely love to see this!
- Originally, I would have wanted Tectonics gone in trade for something more utilitarian and/or damage focused; After having played (and enjoyed) Wisp as well as leveled Khora however, its become apparent Tectonics would not *need* to be removed so much as put together with some other aspects of his kit (I wasn't fully aware abilities could be combined onto 1 key). It seems this would be far more acceptable of an option, as he doesn't "lose" anything.
- It has also been brought up Atlas is more of a "brawler". While I can agree he is a brawler, he is more than just that. The mines may not tie into that theme very well though, and partially that was just as a 3rd option to have to aid his defensive prowess. Is there another simple "earth-bending" like concept that could be tossed in with his Wall and Rubblers?These suggestions from you all sound awesome, and would fit in keeping Atlas as an Gaian Brawler, a [Ground][Fighting] type if you will. When combined with some of the original points I wanted to bring up, a new Tl;DR list of possible changes could be:
- Uncapping Atlas's Rubble
- Changing the rates he gains, and the ways he loses, rubble
- Changing how his abilities work with his Rubble
- Combine his 2nd ability, Tectonics, and his current 4th, Rumblers, and toss in an armor-buffing Monolith into a new second ability; Evoke
- Give him a new 4th ability, one that could spend rubble and covers something he's missing; Vesuvius
- Change Landslide to gain lunge distance based on Range (?) (This one would be more debatable, especially if Vesuvius isn't just a 4-to-nuke button- we don't want to remove something others enjoy about the frame, as I have clearly been shown in this thread XD)To go down the list into detail, uncapping the Rubble will in general just be a useful fix. If you can generate more, it will reward you for it.
Changing the rates he gains and ways he loses Rubble will fix one issue other players seem to have; being unable to maintain reasonable rubble.
To begin with, as Scruffle brought up, you could now only have rubble decay upon taking Health damage or standing in a nully bubble, and gaining rubble or a small amount of time would stop this
The rate we gain Rubble at can honestly be left alone, especially if the abilities themselves will innately work off the rubble and no scaling damage needs to be calculated.
His abilities could now interact with Rubble in a more cohesive way, similar in a vein to what CommanderC2121 mentioned:
-His new second ability "Evoke" would consume 50 rubble (no energy) to create a Tectonic Wall, Rumbler, or Stone Monolith.
The Rumblers would function as they do now, with the added caveats that, as Drakewurrum thought up, the Rumblers would also Landslide to enemies on occasion or whenever you use Landslide's *3rd* hit, and no longer have a duration. The Walls could be punched into, causing them to fire in a directional-shotgun-cone of rock and flint (To compensate for the inability to roll them). More-over, the walls would scale in size based on Ability Strength. The Monolith would give an armor buff to frames that enter it (Scaled off strength), and would function much like Wisps 1- the Monolith would have no duration (However, it would have health), and the buff given would only decay outside of its AoE. At base, you can make a total of 5 evoked creations at any given time.
^Nullfiers would interact with this ability much as they do with our current Rumblers- They would rapidly sap the HP of the Evoked creations, rather than instantly disable them.
-His Petrify could cost 50 energy now, instead of its previous 75.
--Petrifying the Wall would increase the damage dealt when it is punched as well as repair it.
--Petrifying the Rumblers would slow them but increase their damage, as well as repair them.
--Petrifying the Monolith would repair it, as well as increase the amount of armor given by the buff.
His new fourth ability "Vesuvius" would consume *500* rubble (no energy) to cast, with a 3 second cast time. Atlas calls the rubble into his fist, and slams it into the floor, detonating any Evoked creations within the 13/18/25m AoE (scaled off Range). This ability would knock down any enemies susceptible, as well as reduce their base armor by 25 (Scaling with power strength) as it pulses out, before fissuring the ground and dealing 400/600/800 damage (scaled with ability Strength).
The long and short of these new ideas, in conjunction with whats been recommended in this thread and others, is a bit more comprehensive change list to Atlas would make him into more of an *Earth* , and emphasis on the earth, brawler, and give him more to do without being too busy in the long run. Vesuvius being able to strip armor would give him a lot of potential in higher end content, doing both a lot of damage and having reasonably useful CC, while also helping him against heavily armored later-game content, and follows the theme of Shattering Impact in removing a fair amount of the base armor, even before power strength.
Considering these revisions and accounting for your contributions to the concept, how would you feel about these changes?
- Uncapping Atlas's Rubble
- Changing the rates he gains, and the ways he loses, rubble
- Changing how his abilities work with his Rubble
- Combine his 2nd ability, Tectonics, and his current 4th, Rumblers, and toss in an armor-buffing Monolith into a new second ability; Evoke
- Give him a new 4th ability, one that could spend rubble and covers something he's missing; Vesuvius
- Change Landslide to gain lunge distance based on Range (?) -
3 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:
Well, as a Madurai player, I don't like it when a frame "requires" Zenurik. 😉
I think they'd just make the Uppercut into the 4th hit. They already have all the animations they need from his current punches to toss in an extra hit in between the 2nd and 4th, I'd imagine.
Hrm... from what I understand, you're saying you would want to give him a skill that has 3 different uses of manipulating earth - walls, golems, and mines? And you'd want to give him some sort of "rubble burst" nuke ability to replace his 4th? I only glanced at it briefly as I'm about to get some belated sleep.
It makes Atlas sound way more busy than he currently is and maybe... gives him too much? My main thought is that mines, traps, etc (considering my experiences with Vauban) just don't work well in the game right now. Plus, giving Atlas a nuke when he already has Landslide seems... redundant.
I think it takes him much further away from his "brawler" theme than DE would be comfortable with.From my experiences playing Atlas, my main concerns are...
- For getting Rubble's Armor boost capped, his Energy costs are ridiculous
- Tectonics is either useless, or else of limited use, and I feel it falls short (literally, even!)
- His Rumblers, while a fun concept... are underwhelming, and lack decent synergy. (besides being healed by Petrify - but Petrify's high Energy cost doesn't make that worth doing)
So maybe, to deal with that 3rd point - what if using Landslide caused active Rumblers to also Landslide - either to your target, or one near them? I have no idea if that would make his damage too insane, but it would be fun synergy, and it would be nice to have some limited control over what the Rumblers do. At the very least, it would help to reinforce his "brawler" theme.
If this is done, we wouldn't even need to bother with the extra combo chain stage on Landslide. 3 Landslides for the cost of one!
So if we go with the full brunt of what I suggest:- Rubble now restores Energy based on Petrify's cost (whether a fraction, or the full cost, either way - we can make it work)
- Petrify's cost should be reduced to a more workable number (ideally 25, but 35 or 40 is fine)
- Landslide scales with Range
- Tectonics creates taller walls (Atlas height, maybe another meter), curved 180 degrees around Atlas in the direction he is facing - the radius scales with Range. They no longer get converted into boulders, and he can create 3 of them. These walls can be hit with Landslide to destroy the wall and send an "avalanche" in the direction of the wall, scaling off the damage of Landslide, and can still be strengthened by Petrify. (optional augment: the walls reflect a portion of damage to attackers)
- Swap Rumblers and Tectonics - so Tectonics is now his 4th.
- Landslide now causes your Rumblers to also use their own Landslide - either on your target, or their nearest target.
But now I feel like I'm injecting my ideas into your thread, and I feel rude. :S
That's the point of the thread, I want feedback and cool ideas! Your points about his costs definitely make sense, part of the reason I went Zen over the other schools is because of its *on demand* energy. Hunter Adren/Rage/ Energize help, but those cna all be quite expensive to build around, and without any of them I imagine he definitely would have some energy woes. Rumblers also landsliding sounds badass, not gonna lie- I want that yesterday! It would fit amazingly with his themes and let the Gym-bros go ham on squads with you. Especially if you had the ability to summon more than 2 of them! When raids come back, 8 Atlas + specters roll up to raid as a horde of golems flatten the content
I can see your point of making the one button doing 3 abilities and having a 4th for a nuke besides Atlas feel redundant and/or busy; my main concept with the 3 buttons into 1 has come from my enjoyment of wisp's 3 buffs she can place off her 1 (Shes the only other frame I've tried so far that Im actually hooked on, like I've been with Atlas). The mines were a random toss-in to fit the more defense oriented idea, but having at least the ability to earth-meld multiple golems and walls innately (with no augments) and if they have other effects tied to them, would give him some phenomenal potential.
As for the "earth nuke", yeah that about sums it up- The purpose for it would be in recompense for those who ran the AoE Range build on Punch, as well as to give literally the Big Red Button; Horde of content-> Button-> No more content
The extra stage of the landslide combo sounds kinda neat, and the extra increase in damage would be terrifying, so I'd be on board for that, too!
As for keeping with his brawler theme, he's not *just* a brawler, but I do see your point. Maybe that's why he doesn't already have something like an Earthquake -
20 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:
--His Rubble cap is already crazy: I got it to 1500 armor recently. That's a LOT. The hard part? Maintaining it. I think the best fix for this is to make Rubble grant Energy to Atlas (maybe 50?). This is similar, in concept, to how Nidus' casting his 1 correctly will regenerate the entire cost of the ability. Petrify costs 75 and Landslide 25, baseline, so that sounds fair... If they reduce the cost of Petrify to 25, that would make the biggest difference.
--Damage boost? Honestly, I don't think he needs it. His fists are strong. And if an enemy survives the first hit, then I just have an excuse to actually use the chaining bonus! Note that Landslide is affected by the mods on your melee weapon (most of them) and the combo counter, and even by the Steel Charge aura. But tell ya what, they should add one more stage to the combo chain, that increases damage by 800% and completely negates the cost (for those especially tough enemies somehow needing a 4th+ punch).
I agree with scaling Range.--Thing is... I like the concept of Tectonics, but I feel it's poorly implemented. If it was a larger wall (Atlas' height minimum), and curved to cover 180 degrees in the direction Atlas faces (and scaled with a range stat to determine radius), that would actually make it useful and give him a decent niche on Defense maps (MOVE ASIDE FROST AND GARA). I think they could make the augment a baseline feature of it (allow him to place 3 walls, get rid of the boulder). But then make it so his punch can target his own walls, which sends a small "avalanche" of damage in the direction of the wall/punch, while also destroying the wall. Petrify can still boost it's strength.
--But tell ya what - swap that with the Rumblers anyways. A beefed up Tectonics actually feels like a decent 4th ability, I guess. If you want, make it cost Rubble for fun.
Interesting feedback. I can understand maintaining his rubble being a bit difficult, though I personally haven't had that be an issue. The energy back would be an awesome buff to him, but as a Zenurik player I never had issues with energy, and having even more of it scares me.
I like the concept of increasing the Combo Chain as well- Scaling it up would be neat, but the biggest issue is you'd have to make the uppercut into the 4th hit, or add a 4th hit after the uppercut that still would make sense in a punching chain. What if Atlas's Landslide had a pair of Rocken Gauntlets that became more similar to say, Garuda's Talons? It would let us still have Landslide as a targeted punch and first ability, with a combo chain for consecutive hits, and we could have a fist stance mod for it as a quick-melee, to just clobber people! That would be awesome, but obviously we can't have any rivens for it then, and if it scales off the base damage of landslide, it would be relatively spooky. Something to consider, though?
I can agree with you on the concept of Tectonics being cool- How do you feel about the suggestion in my other reply, of combining his 2, 4, and adding Landmines, and having it function similar to wisp's 1st ability, where we can rotate between what we evoke? As for the punching the walls and petrify boosting the damage, giving the walls a purpose and role in his kit would make them AWESOME, and if they were to go forward with the idea of melding these abilities together, being able to landslide into your walls and detonate them and the mines with his proposed new 4th would be a very cool interaction, and give him a kind of neat aspect as a defense frame, especially on mission types like Interception! -
3 hours ago, RubbleRain said:
Gotta say I heavily disagree with this. Atlas, the Titan who holds up the world, is a hybrid offensive/defensive frame. If anything, DE needs to double down on his protective capabilities instead of neutering them. Are tectonics weak? Absolutely. But they should be strengthened, not outright removed.
I can see where you're coming from with this, and I racked my brain on it, so I'm curious: how you would suggest strengthening Tectonics? We already have frames like Gara, Frost, and to an extent other lock-down-oriented (Or at the very least, area control) frames like Vauban and Limbo. We don't just want another wall, or a dome, Right? Making the wall scale in size off Strength/range was a possibility, but again, its just another wall at that point. Other frames can do that job a lot better.
3 hours ago, RubbleRain said:Having more of his abilities scale off of rubble is a great idea, but as of now piling up rubble is extremely expensive energy wise and it is this aspect that should be fixed first before expanding on its benefits.
Would something like giving armor to nearby frames/objectives be a possibility? Feeding them Rubble to give them passive armor gen? I'd suggest an aggro generation ability, but Warframe isn't your run of the mill MMO, and so that (much like his 4ths augment that he has currently) is something that wouldn't see widespread usage.On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:Hi, me too. I don't take the game that seriously as an escapist fantasy, but I guess you could do that.
Hi, where is the "escapist fantasy"? Its fun to punch people. As I stated, other people find the game fun in their own way- That's my form of entertainment with the game. That's all this is.
On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:Okay, let me try to go through this slowly.
1. Now, if we were going to uncap the Rubble, the thing that would be the primary concern for me is whether or not the Rubble gain is sufficient enough to maintain a good amount of Rubble in the first place in terms of subsiding the decay. Honestly, it'd rather just increase the Rubble cap by two fold and reducing or haltering the decay until health damage is taken, as this would allow a player to properly increase the Rubble without having to feel like it's a constant necessity to get Rubble all the time.
This is a fair assessment, and I can understand that aspect. As a player, I play an almost entirely ability focused Atlas, so I rarely have that much trouble getting Rubble, unless there's a Saryn around or something of that nature. Currently, Natural Talent + Zenurik Dash/Passives+ *1* Energy orb, I can spam-cast my 4th ability to generate 1,500 rubble off his base energy pool, not counting any nearby enemies that get caught in the blast dropping rubble on their own. I'd agree the rubble system itself could use a bit of work, in hindsight; However, I wanted to keep the change list as small as possible while still giving it some impact. Halting the delay until health damage is taken however, that is an interesting concept, and would give some purpose to the 300 shields Atlas has, as actual rubble loss prevention. Cool idea!
On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:2. I guess a damage boost would be really nice for Atlas for his Rubble amount, but considering how you just wanted to uncap the Rubble, wouldn't that give for a bit of an overpowered trait? Sure, you could maybe put a cap on the Rubbled damage, but then that depends on whether or not the damage increase will even be significant enough to warrant that cap.
3. And now I have to start to disagree, I just don't like the idea of removing or replacing already existing abilities, or at least the concept of them. I get it, Tectonics is a situational ability for when you need defense in the only 4-5 situations where defense is necessary and it's secondary usage is practically useless since Atlas already has a better CC ability, don't worry I understand. The thing is however, I feel like it would be better to just improve the already existing abilities within his kit, and go off from their to make him better in the things that he can do. I know this might sound rude, but I find it a bit lazy to look at something weak and say, "just remove it". And the replacement with Rumblers seems a bit odd too, since they are not even that good of an ability either, at least in terms of their power and importance within Atlas's kit. [In fact, I've been theory crafting, in relation to my previously mentioned Rubble change, is what would happen if the Rumblers were actually a benefit from getting to a specific Rubble amount; it could make them unreliable on duration, maybe add a system where they don't die but instead "deactivate", and free up an open slot for another ability.] I just don't exactly like removing a function that a character already has, I can understand it when it's something like Iron Jab that still exists in the form of a melee combo starter, but there are people that play defensive Atlas, so I don't see the necessity of removing it from them. Unless you were to somehow combine Tectonics and Rumbler ability, I can't agree with it.
The goal with uncapping the rubble and providing a *slight* increase was mainly focused on the rubble you can generate, current day. Say they give him a 10% buff per piece of rubble- that would be far too much damage, ESPECIALLY if its uncapped! Even a 1% buff per piece of rubble would still have astoundingly powerful scaling, and would be a massive damage buff simply due to how much rubble you'd be working with, even uncapped! 1500% melee damage would have Landslide in the millions, if not more.
The most I'd even think they would give him is maybe 1% increased melee damage per every 10 rubble, and even then, that's going to ramp rather quickly and add a LOT of damage to his landslide. Getting to 1,000 rubble would give you 100% extra melee damage, and in an uncapped system, that ramp would still be pretty terrifying later on. By reducing his gain, and uncapping the result, Atlas would gain a scaling boost (Similar to but not encroaching on Nidus) in longer styled missions. Buffing all damage would be useful, as I'll get into later, but as I mentioned probably more imbalanced.
As for your suggestion on combining Tectonics and Rumbler and the problems both you and RubbleRain have brought up, would it be simple enough to make his second ability into an Earth-Mold skill, with 2-3 different options similar to how Wisp's 1 functions? Have him gain the ability to make walls, rumbler buddies, and maybe something like landmines, with a capped amount of each? My first instinct is to make each one possibly cost rubble, and have him gain rubble with his 1 and 3, to use it with his altered 2 and new 4, but that could be debated both ways due to the concern had with the rubble system as it is. I'm mainly curious how you'd feel with the possibility, like you mentioned, of combining the abilities.
On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:4. Giving Atlas more options is fine, just depends on what those extra options are.
5. I know this might sound weird, but I have to sorta disagree with this change too. Don't get me wrong, it would be great too, but considering how it's an ability that has (list all good things about Landslide here), and even when it doesn't scale that well, I don't know about giving people access to a long-range invincible attack for a low energy cost. I know Valkyr and Wukong exist, but Wukong stuns enemies and Valkyr needs to get up close and personal. Atlas is this case just needs to see you and slide the whole way. Unless, you do something like a Range-Invincibility scale thing(?) where depending on the range between Atlas and the enemy, depends on when his invincibility activates (similar to the range of default Landslide). I know it seems like I've been holding back Atlas's power with my disagreements, but I think it's just my way of interpreting how Atlas should work/be powerful.
I can see your argument against the increased lunge distance, but in no way would we be gaining more mod-slots to work with. Building Atlas in current day, Range and Strength are both reasonably valid options. Duration Atlas works well for defense with a incredibly long petrify duration, but is somewhat of a meme if we're being honest. I can agree with certain parts of your interpretations in all honesty, but the only place that extra lunge distance is really going to matter is in the more open missions.
However, more and more, a frames abilities in modern content are diminishing. Unless you're a frame with some sort of actual weapon buff, energy restore/Debuff prevention, or anything of that nature, you will be statistically worse off in Eidolon, Profit Taker, and Exploiter fights. The Ropalyst fight is simple enough, but due to the simply massive damage output, frames like Hildryn and Inaros are going to rule that tileset. Not that you can't do them with Atlas or these other frames, but that other tools can do it better. Of course, this is how its supposed to be for balance reasons- Everything should have a purpose, a role. But, then you encounter frames like Wukong (PRe-work) and Atlas, where the only honest advantage they bring to the table (In these fights, and wukong pre-work, at all times) is ability/energy-based survivability, and outside these massive fights, what do they bring to the table?
Atlas brings a decent bit right now. His 3 is amazing crowd control for anything you can petrify, and his 1 does more than respectable damage to anything it can target. His current Rumblers and Tectonics are underwhelming, however, and his more than quantifiable as a almost purely single target frame, unless you mod him for range on his uppercut.
These changes I wished to propose would give him an added, dedicated, AoE ability, and give more definition to his role as a Bruiser, rather than a straight Tank or straight DPS styled frame.On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:Side note here: I am going to assume (and hope) the decay is gone in this situation? Because trying to build up Rubble this way with it, would be pretty damn challenge wouldn't it? Even if you were doing nothing but Petrifyingly Landsliding people, you'd have to make sure you never take a break. I know it may be hard sometimes to get your Rubble up, (especially when teammates kill enemies in front of you first) but this would be really challenging.
So... a worse Wukong clone/specter? I'd honestly have to use the augment to gain any widespread usage of the previous Rumblers, because this doesn't really do much for me.
An AoE ability for Atlas? Eh, I guess. It's not something I would have chosen but I suppose it is a valid option. But, what do you mean by cool down? Like the ability cannot be used again until the cool down is done? Not sure why you gave an AoE ability to Atlas, but then put a cool down limit to it, it just doesn't seem necessary. especially with how slow the ability is by default.
Yeah, personally, I don't know if I would play Atlas more than I already do with this set of abilities on him, it just doesn't have the same type of feel as before. Maybe it is overall better, who knows, but I don't see it as such.
Side note: I'd recommend not trying to copy and paste your black text onto your forum post, it's hard for us Dark Mode users to see it. I had to switch to Light Mode to see it, and now my eyes hurt.
Side side note: It can be a little subjective on whether or not Atlas Prime was delayed, because when you think about it, Wukong was technically released first before Atlas.
I wouldn't be such a negative nancy when it comes to the way how unpopular frames have been getting attention, considering how we just got the Wukong Rework that turned him into a one-ability never-die frame, into a contender for the best melee frame out right now.
Side notes for your side notes, I will try to avoid copy-pasting my research to here and type it all out a second time, in the future if that is necessary.
-Decay is something I honestly didn't want to mess with. I can understand how it might be a problem, especially if his gain is reduced, and I do like your idea of only losing Rubble on Health Damage, but configuring a formula based on that idea wouldn't be simple. Honestly, I'm happy his current decay rate doesn't scale off your duration. Its never been a problem on my end
-The "Worse Wukong Specter" is a fair argument since his rework. Its made Atlas's Rubblers look even more clown-y than they used to be by comparison. However, they serve the purpose and theme of the character, and even if they don't contribute a lot, them generating rubble, drawing fire, and outputting damage makes them useful enough.
- The cool-down attached to the AoE ability is as you were concerned about, akin to how Simaris locks your abilities if you use them too often. This was something that arose from conversing these ideas pre-forum, to prevent Atlas from becoming another Quake Banshee, Saryn, or pre-nerf Ember. This isn't something initially intended to be slammed repeatedly to do AoE damage to the map, this is intended to be a charged up Nuke, more akin to Equinox, and due to the Cast time, and cooldown after use, should make it an ability used as such, without actively interfering with its purpose.
As for the would you play him more, I can see the argument there, but my question for you is "How often does your 2, or to an extent, your 4, make a difference?" "When do you use that ability and see any real, serious benefit from it?" Its the same argument that can be said for PRe-work Wukong- How many of his old abilities were actually useful, especially compared to now? Atlas is in a better starting position, no debate, and after some reflection I can see the issue with taking an ability away completely (Hence, the added point of this reply: Is combining his 2 and 4, adding in some land-mines, and giving him an AoE for his new 4 a valid fix?) , But there is room for improvement, and these improvements could come handily with his *delayed* prime. (Wukong arrived in 17.12, Atlas in 17.5, but Atlas came out a full month before Wukong regardless, and was available then)
On 2019-07-17 at 7:51 AM, (PS4)FK2P said:He should come with a small buff because of how unpopular he is. Just a few small tweaks and minor buffs would do it
On 2019-07-17 at 10:55 AM, Scruffel said:I wouldn't be such a negative nancy when it comes to the way how unpopular frames have been getting attention, considering how we just got the Wukong Rework that turned him into a one-ability never-die frame, into a contender for the best melee frame out right now.
As for this, that's my main point with the ideas proposed above. Wukong is a Prime example of how a Prime frame and a rework can change a frame people barely use into a contender for a top frame in the meta for a purpose. Wukong's specter is honestly really potent, and hes still a pretty incredible frame for surviving even without his old Defy. I think it wouldn't be so difficult for Atlas to go from a "Two-bit, Petrify into Landslide" frame, who in all truth is more Bruiser than Tank anyway (This after his first rework he got, on top of that) into something far more interesting- a true titan of Earth, who only becomes more of a force to be reckoned with as he builds himself up with the rubble of the foes he's felled.
..... Maybe that's just my escapist fantasy talking, though.
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Greetings those of you at [DE] and fellow Tenno around the Relays!
I'm somewhat of an avid, and at the same time, strange, Warframe player. Where many people find fun in powerful weapons, or in more commonly played frames, maybe even in stronger operators, and many more seek to master every available frame, my sense of "joy" and "fulfillment" is far more focused, and it comes from the simple act of flattening foes with a forceful fist to the face: I am an Atlas main.
That, on its own, wouldn't be so strange. I've run into plenty of other players who at least like the frame, so simply having played Atlas is not a claim to fame; However, I have yet to run into another player who's used Atlas for eighty-some odd percent of their mission time- simply put, he is a frame I adore, and have done so since I first entered the cosmos of this game.
The short story is that a friend bought me Atlas relatively early on to settle a score, and so I have had the Brawler almost since day one of my adventures in Warframe.
Just because of, or perhaps even in spite of, all the time I've sunk into Atlas, he is not a perfect frame. He still has plenty of untapped potential, or at minimum underused assets. So, even though I adore the frame and have played hundreds of hours worth of fun with him, I do still fully believe he could use a few tweaks.
Now, this is not the first "Rework Atlas" thread I've tried to bring up, and I received some very constructive feedback on a few of my previous ideas (Thank you all for your help!). After some extensive revisions, and his Prime being pushed till Christmas time at the soonest, I wanted to bring up a few possible ideas that could make him an even better frame!Of course, Atlas has already been reworked once, and that made him an infinitely better frame. However, even with that rework, he still hasn't seen a lot of play from what I can gather, and recently Wukong sort of jumped in front of him on the prime train, due to the Monkey King's interesting rework.
While I am slightly sad that I cannot begin punching people with a gilded Prime fist quite yet, this does give me the opportunity to save some funds for the Prime Access, which you can be assured I will be purchasing once Atlas Prime becomes available! However, that is not the main purpose of this post:
I would like to discuss the possibility of a couple of concepts that have come into my head in the hundreds of hours I have invested into the frame- changes that would make Atlas a far better frame in the shifting meta of Warframe, and give him more of an immediate purpose in the world.
The Tl;Dr version, if you don't want to talk exact stats:
-Possibly consider uncapping Atlas's Rubble, and changing the rates he gains it at
-Give him a scaling damage boost based on his current rubble
-Remove his 2nd ability Tectonics, and replace it with his current 4th, Rumblers
-Give him a new 4th ability, one that spends rubble and covers something he's missing.
-Change Landslide to gain lunge distance based on Range
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Firstly, in Atlas's kit there is now only one Ability that is under-utilized; His lack-luster 2nd ability, Tectonics. Even with its augment, so many frames can provide better area control and objective protection, mostly due to the small size of the wall. I would suggest replacing this ability entirely, on a personal note. In all my time, there have rarely been instances where the wall made any real dent in the gameplay of a mission. While it is not "pointless" per se, I believe a better option can be created.
Secondly, his Rubble.
The current cap of his Rubble system (1500) is rather simple to keep over 1,000 at the minimum, and honestly seems like an under-utilized system;
I'd propose the concept of un-capping his Rubble, and reducing the amount of rubble gained per stack to 10 (25 if gained through killing a petrified foe with Landslide). This would make it more difficult to stack his rubble, but the longer you kept at it, the more durable Atlas would get. Even so, stacking absurd amounts of armor does have its falloff, and of course, would take time. This, ideally, would be more of a quality of life buff for longer missions, while making it more difficult to generate instant armor by flattening 1-2 groups of enemies. While this wouldn't be NECESSARY to the goal of this rework, it ties in to...
The Main Course of this idea, which is in all truth, it is a simple one: Atlas could receive a *slight* (emphasis on slight, here!) weapon damage boost (functioning like a mod) per x amount of rubble. It could be for all weapons, or probably the more balanced and fitting option: just for melee. This would grant Atlas a scaling damage increase based off how much rubble he's bulked himself up with would definitely give more impact to the system as a whole, and help him against heavily armored content. Furthermore, this would tie into the fourth part of this rework:
Fourthly and lastly, a new ability to replace his Tectonics.
I would suggest moving his Rumbler to his 2nd ability and reducing the amount summoned from 2 to 1, as well as the ability cost from 100 to 50. This would help keep his rubble gain in line with a balanced curve. Also, this would allow a reworking of the Titanic Rumblers augment to summon 1 additional rumbler per rank, but dividing the stats between the Rumblers. You could even keep the name of what is his current 2's Augment: Tectonic Fracture
The new ability would now be his 4: Vesuvius (Named for the volcano, who's eruption that leveled Pompei, to keep with some of Atlas's greek roots.) Channel for 5 seconds to release a massive impact, destroying 1/2 of your current Rubble and launching a devastating AoE attack. Furthermore, this ability would have a cooldown based on ability duration (Starting at 10 seconds). This ability would be affected by Natural Talent, with a base radius of 20m, buffed by range, and cost 100 energy. The damage could scale off your rubble expended as well as ability strength.
This new ability would give Atlas respectable AoE potential, especially on a range build, without turning him into another Banshee, Ember, or Saryn. It would also give him a much heftier feel. You'd be bulking yourself up with the rubble of your foes, all to unleash it all in one cataclysmic smash.
The synergy would then allow for him to have his potent single target Landslide, a useful 2nd ability in the form of his single Rumbler, an amazing crowd control option with his Petrify, and a powerful alternative damage source to his landslide, Vesuvius.
These changes have the added bonus of allowing Landslide to have its Range interaction changed. Landslide could now gain lunge distance based on your Range, rather than AoE radius, since Atlas would now have a dedicated AoE ability!)
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Again, in summary:
-Possibly consider uncapping Atlas's Rubble, and changing the rates he gains it at
-Give him a scaling damage boost based on his current rubble
-Remove his 2nd ability, and replace it with his current 4th
-Give him a new 4th ability, one that spends rubble and covers something he's missing.
-Change Landslide to gain lunge distance based on Range
I'd love to hear your feedback on these concepts, both what you think of them (likes, dislikes, and all!), as well as if they might be balanced or thematic enough to warrant addition into your amazing game!
Thank you very much if you took the time to read this, and for making Warframe the game it is today!
-Dave
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On 2019-03-23 at 11:14 PM, Scruffel said:
Now if Melee 3.0 might bring a new melee combo that does the exact same or feels similar to the current Landslide targeting, that would be fine, if it wasn't a replacement for it. I don't want to get rid of the instant targeting for the ability, because it would just be a nerf to it in the sight of trying to fix a non-issue.
Makes sense, and I see your point with those proposed numbers- although obviously those could be changed. Part of the reason for the concept of having duration matter for more than just having a 50 second petrify CC would be the concept of some new possibilities with Atlas, but having added decay AND landslide costing rubble could make that infeasible with negative duration (maybe just have landslide still cost energy, with increased gain and uncap and increased drain?). I would like to make an argument though that by uncapping rubble and having it be so much easier to attain passively, that perhaps the increased gain and stockpile may accommodate for the added drain.
As for removing the fact its a targeting ability, and that it matters less due to the few enemies you can't target, the main idea behind this proposed rework was with the 3.0 changes altering melee- As it stands now, by comparison to say, Valkyr or Baruuk, Atlas simply landslides at the enemy for incredible damage. The proposed change, and especially with a proper built stance to go with it, would let you hopefully still have that targeting punch feel (or atleast a very controllable actions like Gaia's Tragedy's flips), while also letting you have new mobility options- Actual melee combo options instead of left right uppercut, and things that could synch well with 3.0 very well depending on what they change.
Pair that with again, while there aren't many things you can't target, those things are becoming increasingly important, and there are more of them (Profit Taker/Exploiter, the Eidolons), Or old bosses (Lephantis, (Shadow) Stalker now being untargetable for some reason, Saturn Six Wolf just being generally resistant to abilities) and so on and so on. Imagine actually being able to utilize these cool exalted abilities we have in warframe to up-end a hulking monstrosity
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On 2019-03-21 at 3:47 PM, Scruffel said:
es (even if just the Landslide one), I would not only refuse to pay for the Access, but also probably stop playing Atlas too. I know this is just an idea, but it doesn't sound like a good one for me.
Makes sense- And I run a negative duration build right now, so I can understand the hesitation there- Part of the reason I wanted Rumblers unaffected by duration XD.
The main concern with 3.0 in general, and why I would favor a change to his 1, is for things you CAN'T target. The idea behind this idea was that Duration would still be useful, but running 12.5% duration would still have some slight downsides- Efficiency, however, would play less of a role in this build. He would still be a Strength and/or Range focused frame. With his 1 being exalted, if you did have it drain a LOT of rubble with a -duration build, you'd still have ways to generate far better than say, a -duration Baruuk. Also, depending on what changes occur with 3.0, you could feasibly still have a melee combo that sends you flying forward at things, just now without needing a valid target to hit. -
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I'd love to see craters behind where I walk, like every step quaked the earth
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Yes, Im an Atlas main, what of it? XD -
Greetings! I've played Atlas for basically the entire time I've played warframe- He's something like 80% of my in game playtime.
I've always really enjoyed being able to smash things into orbit with a proper built Landslide, but recently with more and more of the games content being untargetable by warframe abilities, and with as hard as he would be for most people to get (assuming you don't buy him early on), he's lost just a little bit of that luster he had originally, especially in comparison to frames like Chroma, Rhino, or even Nidus (Nidus being probably the best comparison to Atlas of that list, and somewhat of the inspiration for 1 or 2 of these ideas)
I've really enjoyed the frame, but with Melee 3.0's full changes looming on the horizon, I have a few worries about our good friend the earth brawler. I can however think of a few decent solutions all summed up in a singular rework concept.
To begin with, while I don't have experience with Khora or Gara, I know their respective abilities, and that they also have "exalted" abilities that scale off melee mods, while not being truly "exalted".
While this has benefits, such as in the form of Riven Mods, it also has its downsides, in that it cannot really benefit from any of 3.0's changes (You can't slam with targeting abilities, as a quick example) and sortie missions with any version of Primary or Secondary only prevent these frames from using those damaging abilities to any degree of effectiveness.
If I could get any feedback from Gara or Khora players in that regard, or if there are more Atlas players out there I have yet to run into, feedback would be appreciated, but personally I believe that Atlas's Landslide could benefit greatly from being exalted.
Now, hold on a minute- Making Atlas's Landslide exalted would be a nerf...wouldn't it? I mean, you'd lose the benefits of Rivens, and technically speaking, some of the melee combo to an extent! Assuming you even keep the 0-2-4-4-4... etc combo, how would it even work? You'd have to basically reprogram the ability from scratch!
Indeed. In the long run, this would dramatically change Atlas as a warframe.
My proposed concepts would alter his playstyle to put more emphasis on the Earth aspect, rather than the Brawler.
For starters, his reworked passive: Monolith works fine as it is. This is the simple part, and one I'd hope to see even if the frame wasn't totally reworked:
-Uncap rubble
-Give Atlas a small % weapon damage increase per piece of rubble (Even something like .1% per rubble would be sufficient, or perhaps even a bit high)
-A new functionality for Rubble is that an enemy (killed by Atlas, by any means) will drop 10 rubble, while a Petrified Enemy (killed by anyone, by any means) will drop 50 rubble on death, 100 if they are killed by Landslide.
-For countermeasure, increasing the drain to something like 7 Rubble/s, and have duration affect the drain rate.
In terms of Atlas himself:
-20 more base hp
However
-Remove his shields.
-Lower his energy to 200 at max
The idea behind this is that with no shields to buffer his health, Rubble will play more of an active role in keeping him alive, while also giving him an increase in base survivability. By giving him 10 Rubble per enemy killed but increasing the drain, the goal would be to allow Atlas use of his reconfigured 1st ability AND give him an easy way to keep his rubble tended to, but not to any real degree of growing it.
Now, for the rest of the rework, it'd be a bit more complicated.
(The rest of the proposed rework is based of the above Rubble configurations and base stat alterations)
With his 1, Landslide, being changed into an exalted (assuming this whole idea would be implemented), it would become an actual exalted weapon
-Separately modifiable, with its own Stance
-No longer needing to outright target enemies
However:
-It would not longer benefit from Rivens
-It would be turned off by a Nullifier effect
The best comparison to it would be something like Baruuk's Desert Wind (The ability could cost rubble to activate, and it would be a Fist stance- even if it was just a mimic'd Gaia's Tragedy, it'd work for this purpose- The AoE on the punch scaling with range would be nice to have considering the build some people go for is a range-focused uppercut)
It would retain its current base damage stats (350 at max rank, 100% of it impact), and could have an (increased) critical chance and critical damage of 20% and 2.5x, with the same 5% status chance. It would now however be affected by Attack Speed, and would have a base attack speed of .9. Atlas would gain invulnerability ONLY while attacking with Landslide.
-The 0,2,4 combo COULD still remain in place when it comes to the actual stance combo options- have the later hits of the combo deal increased damage.
-The Augment, Path of Statues, would probably need a rework as well
-Range, Strength, Duration, and Efficiency would continue to affect this Ability. The base cost to activate Landslide would be 25 Rubble, and the drain could then be a 5 Rubble/s (This would stack with Rubble's new passive decay of 7/s, for a total of 12 rubble/s decay if you aren't gaining rubble, again, at base)
The goal here would mainly be updating Atlas with Melee 3.0- With the changes that could be coming to the combo multiplier, as well as just the general purpose reworks to melee itself, updating these target abilities like Landslide would keep them interesting along with the rest of 3.0.
Petrify would become his new 2, and cost 35 energy. The rest of the ability would remain unchanged
-(Ore Gaze, the augment, could use a minor buff in terms of its chance to grant additional loot, but this would not be required)
Simple enough, more so to justify the increased energy cost of what was his former 2, and the slight decrease in cost for this ability.
His 3, Tectonics, would see the greatest change of his kit
-The ability would now cost 60 energy base.
-You could now place up to 2/3/4/5 walls (The augment could add 25% damage to the ability, and/or increase this cap by a further 3). You would not be able to activate the ability when you have the max number of walls placed.
-The walls would no longer be able to be rolled at the enemy, but instead would break upon being hit by Landslide, causing X- Impact/Blast (60/40% weighting) damage (affected by strength) in a 10m radius (affected by range) around the wall
-Duration would now affect the ability: Walls would last 11/14/17/20 seconds at base.
-When the walls are broken by landslide, or expire, they drop 50 rubble, 75 if broken by landslide. Walls broken by damage do not generate rubble.
This change is mainly meant to fix Atlas's worst ability- In the current game, Tectonics is really only useful when placed in front of a mobile defense console, and MANY frames can do that job better. This would take a lackluster defensive ability and rework it into an interesting offensive one.
His 4, Rumblers, would receive a fair degree of change as well
-It would now cost Rubble to activate (100, not affected by Efficiency)
-You could now charge the Rumblers to give them increased HP and deal increased damage, but cost additional rubble (Up to a cap of say 250 total rubble, for 1.5x stats)
-Duration would now no longer affect the Rumblers, but recasting the ability will still destroy the Rumblers that are currently alive, allowing you to spawn new Rumblers by casting the ability again.
-Rumblers would no longer drop Rubble on death.
-Strength would no longer affect the Health and Armor of the Rumblers, but would still affect the damage dealt and overall size of the Rumblers, and health and armor mods would still affect the Hp and Armor of the Rumblers.
-Shield mods would no longer affect Rumblers (as, they would no longer affect Atlas with this rework)
This change would mainly be due to the addition of damage from rubble. As it stands in current gamestate, a high efficiency Zenurik Atlas can generate rubble with his 4 pretty much on demand. By removing the rubble generation, and making his Rumblers require rubble, you'd be paying a bit of damage and armor to create 2 decently large bodies that would aid you in combat, gaining damage both from strength and rubble, while having durability from your hp and armor mods.
All in all, Atlas is in a fine place currently. His Petrify and Landslide are both amazing abilities as they are, and even if he isn't changed, he'll still be the frame I play the most, in all likelihood.
The purpose behind this long-winded (and, hopefully balanced) suggestion would be to give Atlas something to do with his 2, and to buff up his Rumblers to an extent, while giving Rubble more of a purpose in his kit.
If nothing else from this entire idea were to get implemented, I would be more than content with the small buff to Atlas himself, in the form of an uncapped Monolith that gives him a small damage boost per rubble, and a slight increase in health for no shields and a slight reduction in energy. It would majorly help him in content like the Plains of Eidolon and Fortuna, where the monsters of the open world are unable to be assailed by Warframe Abilities. It would make him a more interesting and versatile frame, without infringing too much on frames like Chroma and Rhino.
Thank you for your time, and if you have any suggestions or comments, I'd love to hear them!-
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Melee 3.0 is on its way, and I want to be happy that it is. I play a LOT of melee, and not in the "traditional" way most people play it, with long reach, high attack-speed, blender cleavers of Slash.
I've made a lot of use of my Atlas's statstick, the Kogake Prime. I don't mind the short reach it has, or the fact its impact- I can take advantage of its utility to not only buff up Atlas's Landslide, but have a decently powerful Quickmelee or "Consecutive normal punches" combo as needed, a specifically: Nullifiers, walking into the bubbles to just sock them in the jaw is quite refreshing.
And yet, with Melee 3.0 on the horizon, the only news or info I've gotten is giving me serious concern for my damage output in the future- Losing an entire multiplier of Landslides damage due to the changes to combo multi, while not getting a dime in recompense from say, the melee damage buff to weapons; Landslide gets "nothing" from the weapon you have equipped. Going from a 4x melee combo, 4x landslide combo, + even at a 5% chance, 2x crit multi (Giving landslide a x32 damage multi, up to maybe x80 or more if you ran a crit build)
Worst yet, he's probably not alone- Gara and Khora are likely to suffer as well, as are Wukong, Valkyr, Excal, and the newcomer Baruuk (Unless their respective "exalted weapons" get a damage boost that Gara, Khora, and Atlas are not privy to).
I heard once, somewhere, that DE had taken these changes into consideration, concerning our "not exalted" exalted frames- Is there any info to be had on the subject of what Melee 3.0 is actually going to do to these melee based frames? Because while Atlas hits incredibly hard early on and up into decently leveled content, anything armored north of 100 is going to laugh at his weakness if he gets nothing in exchange for the loss of a damage multi of this caliber. -
A user by the name of CorerMaximus wanted me to make sure this got to you staff-members of DE, seeing as they'd miss the Fortuna drop due to mid-terms, and I second the message whole-heartedly:
"I know words don't do my feelings justice, but while the patch is still downloading, I wanted to take a moment and appreciate all the work you folks at Digital Extremes has put into this. The sheer amount of effort, commitment, and love the team has put into makes me proud to be a part of this community, and has made the game inarguably one with not just the best community and sheer amount of great content, but also one with the best development team behind it- Thank you, everyone at Digital Extremes!" We wanted to make sure you got a positive message for all the great work all of you put in! See you in Fortuna!-
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Nova and Excal. Again. Nothing for Atlas (who needs some form of fashion that isn't a basic color scheme) or Nidus (with Deluxe skin coming this is slightly understandable, but it isn't here yet and beyond that, he has had no real fashion to speak of) or any number of frames that aren't Nova and Excal. Like, all of these things are cool- But most of the added things he can use will not match with Atlas. My one hope is that a Blade of the Lotus/Deluxe skin is in the works and will happen at some point- I'd love to see a knightly take on Atlas, with his already "Knight inspired" base helm, and there is one amazing piece of art floating around that would be the worlds greatest deluxe skin like, Ever:
Tis too bad I can't contact the person(s) responsible for making this amazing idea and get them to make it a thing X.X
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Just now, Z3GR4M said:
Dude thats baller!
I agree! Now if only we could find the person(s) responsible, drag them into tennogen, and hold them hostage till they make it for us....
Moframe of Mind Contest [Winners Announced]!
in Livestreams
Posted
pictured, Diagoras Atlas Dax (380 wins, 20 losses, 362 by K.O.), "Landslide of Rhodes". 5-Time Orokin Heavyweight Boxing Champion of the Cosmos, Hero of the Telamon Crisis, posing at the remnants of the Saturn-6th "Apollo Arena"- where he won his 221st and "favorite" bout by a signature Landslide Upper just 2 minutes into the 1st Round, against "Baruuk" Yang Tzun.
(Semi-related bit below is themed/based on "Back (to Rise!)", TJ Combo's song from Killer Instinct S2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpIPAApE8CQ
Put 'em up, show me what you got
I want to see how you rock, if you're great or not
Wanna take my spot, better train to box.
I'll leave your name on rocks in a place forgot
Ready to Rumble in the jungle on these weak lions
I'm a legend- yea, the One "Greek Giant"
Think you can last 3 rounds against me, fool keep trying!
(I'm back!)
When I breakthrough, I shake fools with great moves
And train to stay loose, my power stays brute
Hit me if you want, my chin is like Granite
Keep throwing your best out, but I'm still left standing
Rock steady, heart's heavy with the fire
Call me the trailblazer- I'm taking this game higher
Jab, Hook, Uppercut-
Feel my blow when it impacts up your gut-
You wanna try to beat the Champ, you ain't tough enough-
I stick and move through your best with a counter punch-
Man I feint with precision, aim hitting for your brain-
Cause I trained with the wisdom, gained vision through the pain!
(I'm back!)
Real Grit, I can power through you with no risk
Leaving your soul twisted up in my closed fist
Take notice, I stand as the "Bouldest"
Baddest, erratic fighter you could face on a foes list
The knockout king to all my opponents-
I'm taking every moment to win, baby I own it
Yeah, I start to zone in with flurries and combinations
And end you with haymakers, my skills are way greater!
I will beat through the system, stay vicious in the ring-
I'm back forever, you can't Rock my reign!