Cool3303

November 17, 2017

@FireSegmentI feel I have some unusual thoughts on the topic but please hear me out.

So first lets identify what Operators are not (since POE):
1.Slow- They get four 20m dashes that can ignore gravity. This makes them (in Short bursts) very mobile, even unupgraded. Furthermore this, when chained with bulletjump+roll further increases the possible speed of warframes.
2.Useless- Even aside from the amazing buffs they can give by the virtue of the current mechanics you can use your operators to revive anyone with 100% invulnerability on your Warframe. A massive buff. Similarly you can use their void mode to circumvent predictable damage, wich is more niche but has its applications (Eidolons shout was crafted to showcase this)

But there are things they most definitively are:
1.Ugly- Say what you want about the appeal of their teenage look but over time we got attached to our glistening Weapons of mass destruction. A decked out warframe is far prettier than even the best Operators currently have to offer.
2.Weak- Even with all the upgrades they still have to be in void mode to take any amount of hurt and amps barely tickle anything above lvl30
3.Annoying-What happened to "maintaining the balance" of the solar System? Not only do the Operators say things without any relevance, not only is their voice annoying, no it also completely clashes with everything we learned about the lore and is pretty disgusting to boot. So the little kid operating warmachines to get loot tells me the Corpus are a money cult? WTF? I saw myself as a mercenary in it for the money but I guess I can forget that because the kiddo told me so. Completely immersion breaking.

However what is perhaps most impactfull for me is that they do not interact with anything else in the game:
Weapons you like? Nope, use these 6 new ones.
Warframes you like? Irrelevant in missiontypes you are forced to use the operator.
Abilities that you find interesting? None of these interact with them.

Particularly the inability to buff them makes it hard for me to see them as anything but a nuisance. Even if I wanted to use the operator I have to divide my attention between the ability rotation on my Warframe (the timers of wich disappear in operator mode) and doing whatever I use the Operator for. If the operators were buffable they could do decent damage and allow the players to truly combine Warframe and Operator.

Now to be granted the lack of interaction is a fairly new issue, but before that they 100% useless. Now they are useless because they do not have access to any warframe abilites (aside from debuffs, a annoying double standard).

Keep in mind that a lot of people are attached to their favorite Warframes (I am a bit more flexible) So for them switching to the operator is what they are offended by.
For the silent majority the willingness to try out the operator is probably there, but how if it dies immediately like a piece of wet cardboard and does 0 dmg?
As far as I can see it letting all abilities to continue to work with operators and warframes will make them a true alternative.

A health buff would be in order too though.

October 23, 2017

1 minute ago, Mewvg2 said:

But your Warframe can still be effected by status, such as the Teralysts' guarunteed mag procs during the blast phases. Trying to escape that damage by hiding in Operator mode? Guess what, your Warframe will have zero energy when ya get back to it!

2 hours ago, Cool3303 said:

Right now your Warframe can be affected by Damage, Auras and Status procs when you are in Operator mode, there should be no reason for abilities to magically be paused untill we carry on. (On that note, this can be abused with Continouus draining abilities such as Chromas Ult)

Exactly my point ;)

October 22, 2017

There are currently a lot of negative sentiments floating around because Operators are needed to take down Eidolons.
Some are completely bogus (such as the claim Zenurik is worse) others may be arguable (Operators movement).

Then there are also the critiques of the surrounding structures, with wich I agree for the most part.
Convergence orbs are nothing more than a distraction to me and it is also incomprehensible why we still have a daily cap when it will be necessary to improve the operators to fight any new sentients that will be introduced in the future (what about players that can only farm on weekends?)
That later nodes are intentionally priced higher to reward heavy farmers isn't a good argument since you need the last node finished for waybound passives to be effective across trees (something wich should be changed quickly)

But I disgress.
The one thing that I feel isn't discussed enough is the "cooperation" of operators and warframes.
Think about it. Once you activate your Operator not a single Warframe ability can affect you. You can't be healed and can't be bufffed.

Status weapons? Irrelevant! Invulnerable sentients are not susceptible to status effects.... But why? Why can't I for example use a cold weapon so my Operator has an easier time hitting vomvalysts? I feel that isn't too much to ask.

Everyone is Special? Do you really believe that? The only thing someone can possibly do to help you is debuff the enemies (not possible against terralysts or ghosted vomvalysts) or use critical weapons to kill them as fast as possible. We are moving further and further away from more frames being usefull and more and more towards a chosen elite that aren't affected by these roadblocks. Or have something no one else can do.
Chroma can buff himself enough to bypass the weird damage reduction on Eidolons and without any strings attached, Mirage, Ember, Limbo, Ivara, Banshee are all irrelevant.
Trinity can protect the lures, Oberon, Equinox, Titania don't matter.

Anything else? Doesn't affect the eidolon, doesn't matter. Sword alone? Alone in your Orbiter you mean.

Asking what Operators can do for Warframes is only half of the question.

@[DE]Rebecca tried to present reasons for why we need Operators in the Focus 2.0 text.

While the scenarios were a bit wonky (not having focus plates equipped, really? It ignores a huge question.

Aslong as we are only considering why we should get out of our warframes we are in a position of being forced out.
It comes as no suprise to me that the number one complaint about new Zenurk is "I have to leave my warframe once every 30 seconds to reapply some stupid buff"

Hell there are even more reasons to go into operator mode:

A short burst forward, aslong as you are moving
Four 20 Meter Jumps that refresh every 5 seconds
Invulnerability on your Warframe or more than 90% damage reduction. (Armor also gets added)
Invisibility/Invulnerability for ~20 seconds, during wich you can revive someone or eat a snickers

No weird scenarios necessary, just pure unadulterated powercreep.
There are only 2 reasons why you aren't in your operator and those are

Damage
Your energy needs to refill

And yet I still hate switching to my operator for fights. Why is that?

I am wasting my time, everytime I am the mode that isn't suited for what I need to do.
Every millisecond of transition time is pure torture. I could do everything I want to in Warframe but I need to reapply that damn buff so I don't run out of Energy again.

Or I need to kill that stupid Vomvalyst even though my Team just got trough the Terralysts shield. Or I need to down the terralysts shield but I keep being oneshot and thrown back to my warframe because I don't have Vazarin maxed. No one can win right now. Either being in the warframe is a waste of time, or being in the operator is.

So what we should be asking is what can Warframes do for my Operator?
I need to switch to refill my energy. I need to switch to reapply my buffs. I need to switch to move my Warframe up. So we need reasons to use both, something that isn't "I need to" / "The Operator is useless without energy anyway".

So I propose that if we use a Warframe buff it should also apply to the operator. If we use heals or lay down abilities they should also affect the operator.
Right now your Warframe can be affected by Damage, Auras and Status procs when you are in Operator mode, there should be no reason for abilities to magically be paused untill we carry on. (On that note, this can be abused with Continouus draining abilities such as Chromas Ult)

BUT THAT WOULD BE OP!!!
If something is OP it should be nerfed. We have exactly 2 enemy types that would be affected by this change. If terralyst shields would need to be increased so be it.
If the problem is a certain Warframe ability, why isn't it fixed yet?

@[DE] AND STOP DISABLING STATUS ON INVULNERABLE ENEMIES IF YOU WANT TO CONVINCE US TO USE IT.
I don't ask for full staggers but atleast a little nod.

December 29, 2016

2 hours ago, DiosGX said:

Ok so, first of all, you're saying that a game company discouraging people from taking breaks from their game is bad. Have you ever run a business before? That's like saying "our customers are coming back three times a week to order our food. That's ridiculous, we don't want their business!" Are you mad?

No he says it actively punishes breaks from the game.

To stay with your comparisions: "Oh you want our newest dish? Sorry thats only for customers that have been here for 500 days. You need to visit 150 times more. Don't worry we are just encouraging you to visit our restaurant."

December 28, 2016

12 hours ago, Sahansral said:

@Cool3303: 4 hours of grinding? Really? Your system would totally kill my interest in the reward system or better: motivate me to log in every day. If the worst thing that can happen is, that I fall back 30 days, then why bother at all? It's a step back to the first reward system.

The difference is that it is a couple hours of grinding you have to do every milestone. Which means every 2 months if you push this up any further you will fall behind another milestone and need to craft that one too.

Also its additional grind everytime you have to do it. Likewise new or returning players will have a ton of milestones they missed.

Grinding 4 hours means spending a entire day farming. Which makes you fall behind another day, do it in 2 or 3 days and you see what I am getting at.

It will still be preferrable to "just" login, if possible.

And what do you gain from daily logins? What does DE gain?
You bring up the "returning to game" threads.I dont want to downplay which portion of the playerbase those represent but sure:
In the "I quit Warframe threads" you also hear about people getting burned out and not being able to take a break because they are oppressed by things like Constant Grind, Prime Vault and the Login System.

My Personal perspective:
I personally feel oppressed by the milestones. Logging in Daily is a bother to me and I DO NOT need the incentive.

The first thing I do when I start my Laptop or my PC is open Firefox and click on WF Forums and Deathsnacks which I've bookmarked.
I won't abandon Warframe... but logging in is a bother, patching for 20mins without any options to stop WF from taking the entire Bandwith is a annoyance.
Hell if I see a Sortie which takes less than 30 mins I would login happily and do it.

I've also been unable to login very often in the past and had some struggle with bandwidth limits (thank god thats over) So I can entirely see how harmfull it is.

6 hours ago, Drasiel said:

I guess I've always been of the mindset that login rewards are a gift from the devs. A "wow you've logged into our game for 400 days here's a cookie!" type of thing. It doesn't matter if someone else got a cookie before me, I still get my cookie and it's just as tasty as the early birds.

See here is the problem though? Would you be affected if instead of a cookie there would be a biscuit?
Thats all OP (and I) am asking for.

Stop locking non-cosmetic content behind there or (in my Opinion) shrink the timegap to a manageable amount.
I can very much understand that the players that logged in every day want some exclusivity but what is your problem???

6 hours ago, Drasiel said:

The current login rewards are not punishing to players who can't log in

Please try to understand:

I did everything which interest me in this game, except trying the extremely unique Zenistar. I also assume the Sundial Rifle will be just as unique.
The problem is: Everday I do not login is another day I have 0.0% reason to login and play Because only the Zenistar would prove sufficient reason to do so.

So quite clearly I am getting punished,discouraged,dissuaded, call it wathever you want from not logging in.

December 28, 2016

4 hours ago, Sahansral said:

people who reached that limit won't be bothered by cosmetics, arcanes, ducats or tokens...

This is a very baseless assumption, there is no reason why they wouldnt be interested.
I agree that sigils are a bit little but Syandanas, Warframe skins (Something like the immortal skins) or Weapon skins would motivate me to consider loging in.

And just as a reminder login days have no correlation to time played, or amount of content played (only a small part of the playerbase plays Raids or has enough plat to get all arcanes)

3 hours ago, Sahansral said:

Name the grind! How much of it? What is the equivalent of login for 600 days. Where's the magic spot, that ensures that only a few players will get it. Name numbers!

Since someone else mentioned it takes 30 seconds to login I guess that would be 5hours of time grinding.
I originally did not consider the obsession with exclusivity when I made my suggestion (I do understand the notion but I can't condone applying it)

So here is what I would prefer:
Either stop unique rewards completely OR
Players that are behind by 1 or more milestones (50 days) can craft the next for a moderate cost:

~4 hours of grinding
Heavy to circumvent costs (for example 30 Argon, since it also fits thematically as "time-decaying" ressource)
However the milestone will have a unskippable crafting time of 30 days

What does this mean?

Everyone stays 30 days behind once he has fallen behind.

A month is a very workable timeframe. It is a easily agreeable metric for a medium amount of time.
30 Days is a reasonable time to maximise the new weapon and play it till it becomes stale
New players time to catchup would be shortened to a year. (Further cuts to earlier milestones could maintain this timeframe)

What is the problem with this?

Once people are 30 days behind they can hardly fall behind much further.This makes the milestones utterly pointless for them.

However this does not excarbate the current issues of the login system (lack of value of non milestone rewards for vets) while shrinking the catchup to a workable number.

Why then do it in this way?

Because it is the only way I see to compromise with people that are convinced that logins carry value while arguing it takes no effort to do them.

The only way to compromise with people that can only experience a unique new weapon when it is released as login exclusive rather than as update content.

December 28, 2016

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)Ph4nt0mL0rdX said:

In the same regard it makes a mockery of the people who made sure they logged in every day to get the rewards we logged in for 300 days to get zenistar you think you shouldn't have to? What does that say about us who have it? Just like all the other things that ceased to be exclusive you want to take this away from us too?

Thank you for missing the point completely. The OP wants DE to stop locking EVEN MORE content behind the login system... No one wants to take anything away from you.

2 hours ago, Faulcun said:

The power gap is in your head. There are plenty of people, myself included, that can outperform the majority of other players without using primed mods. There is not any one single item in the game that makes a player "godlike" just because they have it and somebody else doesnt.

Zenistar is one weapon out of ~300. Three Hundred. 3 HUNDRED! Again... If you are trying to argue that this weapon is required in order to have the best defensive build... we need to be having a different discussion.

I simply asked you to explain how it influences you in any way to get (any further) items from the market/baro instead of the login screen, therefore I disagree with the reasoning of your argument.

Content is not released at the moment of creation and locked behind a abitrary login count. Its impossible for a player to achieve it, only a login-er can get it.

The power gap is in my head. There are plenty of people, myself included, that can outperceive the majority of other players in regards to Power Gaps. There is a plethora of items in the game that make a player "godlike" just because they have it and somebody else doesnt.

Zenistar is the only one weapon out of ~300. Three Hundred. 3 HUNDRED! that can do sustained AOE damage while not being equipped.Again... If you are trying to argue that this weapon is not required in order to have the best defensive build... we need to be having a different discussion.

So can we all please stop downplaying arguments.It just bloats the posts

I am trying to sum up the FACTUAL arguments in favor of continuing releasing (non-cosmetic) login exclusive content:

-A portion of people do not care about anything else than exclusive Items.

The login rewards are supposed to encourage logging in again
That portion of people would be instead be discouraged to login daily without (non-cosmetic) rewards.

-Logging in requires moderately little effort so keeping up with the rewards should not be problematic either.

There are a number of reasons why people cannot keep up (here the three most reasonable)
Holidays(you know outside your house, it is a weird idea I know)
Monthly bandwith limits (which make it impossible to update and consequently login)
Technical difficulties

The arguments for stopping releasing (non-cosmetic) login exclusive content:

-A portion of people are discouraged by excessive timegates (sundial rifle is supposed to be released at 500days)

The login rewards are supposed to encourage logging in again
That portion of people would be discouraged to login daily with (non-cosmetic) rewards.

-A portion of players "only" log-in because they feel forced by the (non-cosmetic) exclusive rewards

Those players feel not encouraged to play. It takes up bandwith and does nothing for DE

-"Lost" days can never be regained, which creates a gap in the playerbase.

(non-cosmetic) Exclusive Items make this into a power gap, which are established as bad for any game

-A portion of players will not be able to acquire the items before the end of Warframes lifespan or before they loose interest in the game.

Unused content is established as bad for any game
A lot of new and returning players will be unable to ever try the login exlusives, this only grows if even more items are planned beyond the now planned 500 days.

-There is no intrinsic value to (non-cosmetic) login exclusives

Almost all of Warframes equipment is made easy to acquire, in contrast to Final Fantasy XIII-III where it was made a integral part of the gameplay
TLDR: There is no reason why Purely Cosmetic rewards would not appeal to more players.

Irrelevant or purely Circumstancial Arguments:

-"It is only 1 Weapon out of over 9000" It is 2 weapons and 1 Primed mod right now and will be more in the future

-"I have nothing else to look forward too" Does not explain why DE could not just release the Weapon to the market or mods to Baro

-"There is no RNG. It took me 1100 hours of in game time to pull "hate" from the stalker." The market has a 100% droprate for Hate (Trading is another avenue)

-"It is not discouraging but instead encouraging" It is not encouraging but discouraging

December 27, 2016

@Callback

I think the discussion is very much caught up in why a system with accumulating rewards is reasonable instead of asking what it actually does for the game.
Arguing that the players are responsible for loging in and new players just don't deserve it yet is very much fine on the one side while arguing that locking gamechanging content behind over 300 days of wait for new players doesn't make any sense (since even casual players can try everything else worthwile in that time)...

However it doesn't go to the crux of the matter and the OP fails to point this out.

Why can we not just get the unique login rewards from baro or the market?

DE does not actively create "more" content just for the login reward system. There is no "reward"... they just lock the content behind the login screen.
This serves no one, especially considering that crafting costs in this game are as good as always of no concern.

I very much agree with the OP that the non-unique rewards are fine. Afterall the game has a lot of avenues for acquiring all of them.
So that means players are still rewarded for logging in. Potentially more since a 3-day booster is worth more than a potato and item slot (+whatever measly costs the weapon would require)

@Faulcun I hope you can reconsider your stance especially since you would still get the weapon for logging in for (potentially less than) 500 days in a row.
Having the primed mods on Baro would reward players that invest the time to farm ducats - arguably more impactfull than forcing people to login and alt+f4
You would just need to get to the market to get the blueprint (or buy it with plat)
And you wouldn't even need to keep arguing how irresponsible all the players that do not log in daily or came late are.

Locking (non-cosmetic) content behind the login counter:

-Runs counter to DE's policy of "releasing as soon as possible"

-Creates a power gap between players (especially in case of primed mods)

-Inhibits a players acessible builds (Zenistar is a supreme addition to defensive builds)

November 11, 2016

21 hours ago, Azrael said:

OP is basing this on people they have talked to or met or seen, but that is a small percentage of the player base.

On 29.10.2016 at 2:21 AM, EnderDDT said:

So I looked at the Volt feedback thread, starting after the last change and keeping track of how many individuals liked or disliked the changes (ignoring how many times they replied on their opinions).

The results: 2/3 of individual people believed that multiple major changes were still needed and 3/4 believed that changes were still needed (but might or might not bring up both multiple things that they also believed were major issues that needed resolved). Only 1/4 thought things were fine (or simply wanted to tell others to shut up with their complaints). This ratio remained stable over time between the last change and the unlocking of the thread [...]

@Azrael discrediting the OP despite of his great efforts to obtain statistical Data is really unhelpfull.

In my Opinion he also made it clear that this does not equal a 1:1 ratio in terms of an actual problem

25 minutes ago, FAZZWARFRAME said:

I am confused, are we talking about fixing the perception of feedback being ignored or actual feedback being ignored?

@Fazzframe As far as I can tell OP's core arguments are: DE's Megathreads are neither used to gather actual suggestions nor to check if the change/newly introduced Item is perceived positively.

On 10.11.2016 at 1:42 AM, EnderDDT said:

So a simple question for @StinkyPygmy @Rekkou @Chipputer and anyone else that believes that the evidence I gave was not enough:

What realistic amount of evidence would be required for it to be considered enough? And, if that evidence was provided, would you then be willing to change your mind to say that feedback is truly being overlooked?

The point of thread was that feedback is getting missed (overlooked an invalid, despite a general consensus of opinions), even though that oversight is despite the best intentions of everyone at DE. What would it take to prove that those criticizing this point might have made the exact same mistake in discounting the validity of this feedback?

@EnderDDT Unfortunately a lot of people will always contradict you no matter which amount of statistical data you use.

I think you made a great topic which really needs more attention.Maybe the text could be better formatted but the content is great.

Please don't get discouraged, I would love to see some more ratios for ignored megathreads in the future. IMO DE needs to revisit much more

November 4, 2016

You don't know how cert works right?

Very simple explanation:

Not only does DE need to update PC

They also need to fix ~~all~~ the most glaring bugs. -A week for hotfixes

They must make sure that everything they put in is correctly translated for all languages. -1/2 Weeks depending on language and amount of content

Then they must make sure that all their hotfixes are collected and all the content for events that are in sync on all plattforms is ready (sigils etc. for Halloween for example)

Then they must make a build out of the entire thing and make sure it works on the consoles -Another week

Then they must send it to Sony and Xbox for cert -3 weeks.

So with cert 6 weeks atleast. If everything goes according to plan and all code runs on the consoles

Even if they wanted, making the builds faster then 3-4 weeks wouldn't work.

It simply takes that long. Also it doesn't make sense to work while a build is still in cert as they might need to fix smth about it again.

Additionally there is the problem with releasing piecemeal updates. Sure they can give you Lunaro... but that takes 6 weeks and then they can't give you you Silver Grove which they could squeeze in if they wait 4 weeks (for example)

November 4, 2016

6 minutes ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Now you know what baro did with the remains from operation Cryotic Front.

Actually thought he used those for the primed cold shoulder he usually delivers

November 4, 2016

Primed Cry-o Rounds

Baro giving us that hard D again :heart:

Quote

It was horrible horrible move from DE, it's now like personal polarity for a single mod. Situation with D on weapons was bad even before this, but now you can't even fit this mod without having D polarity on your weapon, and once you formaed it you will be forced to use D polarity mod, I mean Primed Cryo rounds always. Because there are still no other useful mods for this polarity.

Instead of adding more D mods with reasonable cost they just primed the only existing and useful rifle D polarity mod.

Quote

So, that's it?

One new and useful Primed mod(which should have been the case on normal visits) and an Orbiter decoration for the grand 50th visit that DE was hyping so much in the devstream.

I thought DE learned their lesson about hyping stuff and not delivering.

I suppose I was wrong in expecting a new weapon and a couple of new primed mods on 50th visit, especially since they were talking like they have something special on devstream.

Quote

More like Primed Frozen salt. They could have done better , hoping for a better inventory in the next round

Quote

I honestly can't believe the salt about Primed cryo rounds right now lol, first people complain about never getting new awesome mods, then when we DO get one, people complain that they now have to put some effort into the game again because they have to polarize their weapons. This makes absolutely no sense to me -w- I understand that peple get salty when he never brings anything new but this is just utter bullS#&$.

Quote

Such a sad choice, an hotfix camouflaged as an update yesterday cus it didn't really bring anything, and this joke today rotfl.

August 4, 2016

1 hour ago, KJRenz said:

Can we please stop using the steamcharts as a valid source for the playerbase of Warframe on PC? PLEASE?

I agree that steam does not represent the "total number of players" but it very much reflects changes to the population since it has the broadest customer spectrum.

WFs playerbase consists of 3 groups 1.People that saw it on Steams frontpage 2.People that read game magazines and find Warframe 3.People that get Warframe recommended.

Since 2 and 3 overlap with Steam and since there are bonusses to use it with steam (tennogen) it is safe to assume that Steam has the broadest customer spectrum and is very much representative of the Customer distribution.

Can we get back on topic please though?

August 4, 2016

18 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Stealth Nerf

Can this term be changed? It seems too close to "a nerf on stealth mechanics" rather than "a nerf people were not made aware of".

How about Quiet Nerf or Silent Nerf? Or maybe even Stealthy Nerf.

Eh the term has established itself and since stealth is really unplayable (without invisibility) why bother with semantics.

I guess the "poilitically correct" version would be "undocumented change"

4 minutes ago, ashrah said:

that is way how to atract more players....than they can consider adding skins...if they keep like this problems will be even more complex and they will reach point like in world of tanks where players lose patience.. and stop invaste in game... and DEVS now doing everything to change stuff.. cz they are lose half player base mostlly veterans what is core of any game

Actually they already are loosing players if you look at steamcharts.

http://steamcharts.com/app/230410#1m

But since war within isn't out yet (and the inlfux of new players with update advertisement on steam) there is no way to tell if this trend will continue...

August 4, 2016

1 minute ago, Kontrollo said:

The change to explosives was actually a bugfix, it just took them over a year to get around to fixing it for some reason. >.>

You can still get your headshots and headshot crits, and it's easily doable with the Pentas: just airburst your grenades like we used to do. There's even a loading screen tip that recommends doing that, and it did so during all the time it was broken.

I was one of the guys who reported it, by the way.

Well I am just kinda salty because most if not all of those weapons really need to be revisited and given a stat upgrade/self damage fix...

Also it kinda was established as mechanic since they specifically fixed explosives counting towards headshot challenges a year back...Why do that if they aren't supposed to headshot?

August 4, 2016

5 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

As for the explosive nerf. Well, we can all blame the tonkor for this and to lesser extent the synoid similor. The nerf was 100% warranted if it only affected those two weapons.

Thanks for ignoring everything I wrote in that section ;)

I think the explosive nerf was just the typical DE thing: "oh it's ~~benefits the player~~ is inconsistent"

afterall they could have nerfed the stats directly at any time...

August 4, 2016

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

We've already got thirty-six pages of this..

Well but this thread is dedicated to specific changes, of which some are even undocumented

Oh also that megathread specifically does not include void 2.0 ->Relics

August 4, 2016

Specters of the rail included a lot of dubious... or rather controversial changes.

But while other updates caused storms of rage in the forum this patch merely caused slight discontent, some with promises to be fixed.

With SOTR update 2 out... and a lack of fixes or changes I wanted to gauge your opinions, if they are merely not well known or if you even appreciate them.

1.The Relic grind (I know it has been done to dead)

This is obviously a big one. While acquiring what you want is now easier (In a coordinated group when using Radiant relics which are now fixed at 4misions minimum). The number of Relics vs Keys has skyrocketed... Do you prefer being able to target the parts you want or are you afraid of running dry? Also what do you think about the changes to vaulted items?

DE said they are planning to make relic acquisition easier (Reduce the Grind by dropping them from enemies)

2.Ducat changes (or the lack of them)

A lot of items got new Values, making it harder to earn Ducats efficently from common items, in addition to the now skyrocketed need for Relics

DE Drew said they might reduce trader prices at some point but have not done so due to the amount of stockpiled Ducats. What do you think of that reasoning (considering the amount of primed disappointment)?

Additionally it furthens the rift between consoles and PC even more.... Do we have to wait till they run out of stockpiles too? Or will they be given a different build?

3.Explosives ~~don't auto Headshot anymore~~ deal half (or less) of the damage they used to -(Stealth nerf)

Yes we all know explosives always hitting the head doesn't make sense, please ignore this and focus at the effect: All explosives deal half damage, less if they used to crit (since crits deal 4x dmg on headshot). With all the topics calling for a(nother) synoid simulor nerf it seems this isnt very well known.

Please keep in mind explosives don't only consist of Tonkor and Synoid Simulor, which arguably needed a nerf.

The category also includes: Quanta (Vandal),Penta (Secura),Ogris,Torid,Angstrum,(Sancti) Castanas,Talons,Kulstar,Sonicor,Staticor,Stug

Thunderbolt and Concealed explosives, aswell as syndicate procs and ability "explosions" were affected by this too

4.Less Credit Rewards -(Stealth Nerf)

There is a lack of information regarding this bug but it seems either credit rewards have been nerfed or the display for them is broken...

Would be nice if someone could confirm this for me

5.Nerf of Syndicate missions -(Stealth Nerf+Missinformation)

So this was supposedly fixed in Hotfix 13... but it really hasn't been. There are now only 7 Syndicate missions (in contrast to 3 per rank) and top ranking players will get 5,6,7.

This of course means that they get lower rank missions (the supposed "fix" replaced the corect names) and as a result of that less Reputation. Defense has gone down from 9k to 5-6k while other missions now reward 3-4k

April 17, 2016

Remaining at the whole Oberon discussion:

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

I know how armor works, and that’s why I wanted to give Oberon that - especially since that gives him a source of DR that scales with enemies without utterly destroying any notion of balance.

As far as I remember it: I introduce my Idea->Archwizard wants it to be a damage tool->I specify why I think it would be good->2 People tell me it wouldn't be enough->I state some numbers ->You tell me it needs to scale->I use Mathhamer->You say it needs more OP?

I am kinda waiting for someone to tell me my concept would be good, or at the very least why it wouldn't work for Oberon in a variety of ways other than "Your intended armor is way too low"

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

9 hours ago, Cool3303 said:

Regarding Bosses: giving a Unit/Boss a amount of life which is reasonable should be a thing, unskippable cutscenes or disabling player powers SHOULD NOT

I agree, though I don’t know whether I would like your version of “reasonable.”[...]

9 hours ago, Cool3303 said:

Bosses for MR20 players should have atleast 1 million life with the current balance

How do you define “bosses for MR20 players?” Also, those could totally still be oneshot.

"Some" Bosses scale up their level depending on the Mastery Level of the Players. This is very noticeable for Vor who easily goes from the lvl 10-20 intended for New players to 40 if a high MR player is in the squad.... I think it is capped right now... probably because someone did not want/try to spend the effort...

For a full squad of MR 20 players I would expect, for example Vor, to have up to 10 million health and a "safety" damage cap of 1 million max damage per hit (which can be easily hit with something silly like a lanka)

On the other hand his abilities should take longer to recharge and cast. The shield should either last until his ads are gone or only 2 seconds

While playing solo bosses should, at most, have like 200k health to make sure you can clear the area easily and the same goes if any players below MR 8 are in the group. If there are not HP should be able to soar high, scaling with MR

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

but what if a Mastery 20 Player isn't using one of the obnoxiously Overpowered Weapons? now it isn't reasonable for them. the problem isn't how much Health the Boss has, it's what the Player has.

Thats what solomode or grouping randomly would be for (since it is highly likely you get 1 person below MR8), so bosses would be scaled down and much much easier.... and with 3 other high MR player, 1 person is sure to have a OP weapon.

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

besides, a Boss that is just a Bullet Sponge is considered one of the most boring possible bosses of the few common types with good reason. because the way you interact with the Boss - is you... basically don't.

I rather would say that our bosses are already bullet sponges, most have few interesting abilities or animations... the only difference is, WF is broken so we can oneshot all the bulletsponges

3 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

9 hours ago, Cool3303 said:

(which is also better handled as in warframe, you just slowly regain ammo and aren’t stuck without any ammo after shooting 2 times, albeit the Secure Penta has that covered)

wat

Remember how the Ammo nerf made Penta unusable? and the Secura Penta which has a higher ammo cap?

I do...

April 16, 2016

On 15.4.2016 at 6:04 AM, ChronoEclipse said:

Perhaps I should have been more clear; The base armor Oberon grants should be scalable with the enemies in some way, or at least stackable. This gives him the ability to actually help a Banshee with no health mods survive.

Imagine you have 300 armor (So starting from 0 if Oberon #2 had a stacking 150 Flat armor buff and 40% Total armor buff for standing on HG this equals 140% Pstrength)

This equals a 50% Damage reduction while taking health damage... coincidentially percentages scale... percentually (amazing right? who knew?)

Oh and the best thing about Armor is that it doesn't bloody break the game since it scales properly on its own:

Armor reduction graph from the Wiki ... For max powerstrength however it seems I would have to adjust my values, if both scaled we would look at a outrageous amount (1900 Armor atleast).... I would be inclined to say only Flat armor would scale, that would be a nice 67%Damage reduction for 150*140%*299%~600Armor (starting with 0 armor)

It also works for the higher Armor frames, for example Valkyr would go from taking 18% of the damage to 13-10%(depends on Pstrength)

On 15.4.2016 at 6:04 AM, ChronoEclipse said:

Oneshotting a heavy is not the same as oneshotting a boss.

Also, taiiat said “instantly killing.” You could call the Opticor an instant kill weapon, and you'd be right. However, the player has to spend a significant amount of time charging in order to get that kill. There’s a big difference between that and a machine gun that oneshots almost anything on the starchart that’s not a boss.

The thing is, the current oneshotting of Bosses is the result of DE's continous incompetence at balancing weapons and mods, with a DPS gap of several 1000% between Noobies and Experienced players. But of course "content must be accessible for all players" and because of that all bosses have 20-50k HP even after scaling up to their max level (except Lephantis)

However a lvl 100 Heavy has way more, life and rightfully so...

On 15.4.2016 at 5:21 PM, taiiat said:

well, if your end goal is that, there is one important choice:
be able to Kill a hundred Enemies per minute at the press of a button, or have a game where Players by large aren't AFK and having it play on it's own.

[...]

if you don't either not make the Player Overpowered in the first place, or nullify all of the things they shouldn't have, you can't make meaningful anything. period.

Can you please stop using those ~~sweeping generalization~~ actually that is to nice, it still would imply there is a basis of reason, at this point it is more of a meme than anything "DE screwed up the damage system and now ppl tell me Nullifiers are bad design COOKIE CLICKER,IDLE GAMES, AD HOMINEM, ADD COOLDOWNS"

Regarding Bosses: giving a Unit/Boss a amount of life which is reasonable should be a thing, adding unskippable cutscenes or disabling player powers SHOULD NOT

Bosses for MR20 players should have atleast 1 million life with the current balance

Regarding normal enemies:

DE need to set their priorities straight and fix the damage system (and I doubt Damage 3.0 will accomplish that)

For a good balance concept look at Payday 2 (even though it has its flaws), The Thanatos(Heavy snipers) is the only rifle that oneshots the Heaviest unit on a Headshot, however ammo and Magsize and reload are its downsides while other snipers need 2-3 shots but oneshot all the other Special units too and have better mag and reloads

Meanwhile launchers do not completely F*** you up because of their self damage but only clear specials with a high ammo expenditure (which is also better handled as in warframe, you just slowly regain ammo and aren't stuck without any ammo after shooting 2 times, albeit the Secure Penta has that covered)

April 14, 2016

Why do I feel slightly missunderstood...

6 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

On 13.4.2016 at 7:44 PM, Cool3303 said:

Additionally to the % increase (now for total armor),Allies receive X more Armor upon entering Hallowed Ground which persists for X seconds after leaving Hallowed Ground

Unless X is a big number, I don’t see this being useful. ^{*comment* RLY??? It is one thing to say that there would be a difficulty due to interactions but just saying "I didn't see enough XXX"... really?}

[...]

I also really like the idea of Oberon having more than one source of EHP buffs, and them stacking multiplicatively (and at least one of them scaling) so you can make Oberon’s survivability buffs very strong with correct bulding and play.
Particularly worthy of note is having both +armor and +%armor

21 hours ago, taiiat said:

[Allies wouldn't proft from the Armor buff]. the amount of Armor you get by switching the Base Armor to total Armor is still crap. unless the Warframe has almost 200 Armor(before Steel Fiber), the amount of Armor you get is still useless.
as for getting even more Armor after leaving the area of the Ability - that defeats the existing purpose of the Ability, to be a protected safe zone.

For the less creative people... my starting bet would be 150 Armor and a 40% Total increase of armor

That is A LOT... I know, but keep in mind Armor does not scale linearly and minimum Damage stays 1

21 hours ago, taiiat said:

why wouldn't both ways be good? instantly Killing things that are important(Heavies, Bosses, Et Cetera) and instantly dying are both lame and make for a very crappy Video Game.

Easy answer:Yes, Long Answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Simply said, when using a weapon that charges up for 2 seconds.... or reloads forever there needs to be a return in value and that is only possible if you get to oneshot atleast 1 heavy. Especially in a horde game. Similarly the same is true for Semi-Auto weapons and Slow firing weapons

Also Full auto weapons should only be balanced by Ammo capacity in rare occurences

And while I agree that oneshotting most bosses would suck, it sucks even more waiting a half hour for a unskippable cutscene (Vor,Tyl Regor,Vay Hek) while fighting a mechanically extremely simple boss.... simply put, if you have to fight him 3-10 times to get a frame out of him, the player should not be able to know the entirety of his moveset by the 1st fight

... not so simply put: Vay Hek is the worst boss to ever grace warframe

April 13, 2016

@ArchwizardHallowed Ground:

I think you simply misunderstood my chain of argumentation (if this format is easier i will aply it in future posts, please tell me):

I use quotes because they are collapsible too

Lets look at the effects of Hallowed Ground: (Cursive=Bad/Lackluster Bold=Good)

Quote

Excessive damage (received) due to idling
Lackluster armor buff feeding into #1 (base armor % increase, bad for low armor frames)

Standing still is required due to small range

Doing Hardly any damage
Lackluster damage

Lackluster distribution of damage

Clears debuffs

If we now look again at it after your rework:

Quote

Excessive damage (received) due to idling
No armor at all

Standing still is required due to small range

~~Doing hardly any damage~~
~~Lackluster damage~~

Lackluster distribution of damage

A lot of Damage under the condition of being "fed"
This makes downside #1.0 and #2.2 extremely obvious

Effectively limiting the number of "good" instances to 1 (as only Oberon or Tanks will (be able to) feed it)

Unreliable return of energy cost if it cannot be fed due to any reason

Clears debuffs

Yeah I know, renewal gets the Armorbuff, still no reason to use Hallowed Ground AT ALL(except for damage which it distributes poorly)

However by making it a "waystation" it would:

Quote

~~Excessive damage (received)~~
1 Armor buff for staying inside (Total % increase) (Good for high armor frames)

1 Flat Armor buff which persists after leaving (Good for low armor frames)

Small downside when leaving

Doing hardly any damage
Lackluster damage

Lackluster distribution of damage

Clears debuffs
Provides immunity (Energy Drains for example) while staying on it?

Reckoning:

I assure you, I did not missunderstand your Version A:

All I was saying was if the complete damage cap would be relevant enough to block out troopers bullets it would trivialize almost all content as fast firing weapons from Basic Troopers or Heavy Gunners are at the same point the most DPS received aswell as the smallest instances of damage.

Also continous weapons would bug out since Damage is calculated per tick (damage calculation happens before applying it in packages) so Scorches,Hyekka Masters,Elite crewman and some other Enemies would be effectively removed from the game - if DE didn't spend considerable effort on remaking their damage calculation...

Ontop of that a lot of Survivals and Defenses only do spawn Bombards and Ballistas after 10 minutes (Sniper Crewman too but those are a joke anyway)

Version B:

I completely understood you, I meant what I would do if I was noticing that I had a Oberon on my team who used Reckoning.... I poorly formulated that.

Seems I poorly read your description aswell, getting more at a capped Rate? makes sense...it is just... do you mean a conversion rate or a capped rate of armor growth per second?

April 13, 2016

@ArchwizardI wholly agree with your thesis about mitigation and healing but I think your new Oberon rework has a couple of noteworthy flaws:

Hallowed Ground damage increasing with damage received :

Spoiler

Aside from making some fun^tm Stuff possible (Inaros draining himself adding tons of damage) this essentially drains all remaining worth of the ability...why would you want to have a tiny burning carpet (and even with max range and standing in a crossing so you feed damage into multiple directions at the same time) the range is by far not big enough to use it in big tiles.

To make it usefull the damage would need to be truly outrageous... and even then... why would you want to grind to a standstill in a game that is all about movement?

Provided you are not camping a chokepoint where that would not matter (so +1a for camping F for everything else)

As for Reckoning:

Spoiler

Version A:Damage cap...while the core Idea is not too bad I think this would be extremely difficult to balance: How would it scale with strength and where would it start and end?

If it protected from Trooper Bullets it would essentially mean all survivals and Defenses in the entire starchart would be pointless for 10 waves (since "advanced" enemies only spawn in later waves... similarly Elite Crewmen would get screwed (continous weapons apply damage each tick)) etc...etc...

Essentially it would be more of a hassle for the Developers than it's worth (your Phoenix Ember says hello)

Version B:Damage feeding into Oberon ... I would stand in fire, Void lasers and infront of a (couple) Heavy Gunner(s)... does this make me a teamkilling A******? probably...

You explained it a bit poorly ... I like the core concept though, could you elaborate more? (so would he really take damage or just scale up his armor from a portion of the damage allies receive?(I assume decaying over time,inversely scaling with P-strength))

Also as food for thought, maybe the bad thing isn't that he stacks multiple effects on his abilities but the problem that they are all underwhelmingly applied? With the most blatantly obvious being Renewal not affecting allies that are already dead...

Oberon as I see him:

Spoiler

For me it does not matter how many effects he has to stack, I see Oberon as the Frame most contributing to Teamwork out of all the others. Or rather put, he feels well while operating at a level which is "sane" when compared to other games... Sure he isn't working at level 100 due to broken scaling but....

The thing is, he operates extremely well while playing with a team, which agrees to stay together in between 50-100m on a level where you won't be killed in 0.1 seconds... His Kit is always reliable and has unique effects (wiping debuffs) and more than anything else, a "good" Oberon won't be a liability, as he keeps himself alive with his #3 and #4 which of course apply to him better than to other frames which are further away

The theme of Paladin he has is in my opinion more than fulfilled by the effects on his #1 and #4 (Confuse/Knockdown) aswell as the effects on #2 (Cleansing) and #3 (Healing) just because his damage model is outdated doesn't mean he doesn't fullfill multiple roles

By providing enough mitigation to maintain a level where he can excell and apply his abilities he would be truly great.

I think Oberon could be fixed with just one change:

Hallowed Ground: Additionally to the % increase (now for total armor), Allies receive X more Armor upon entering Hallowed Ground which persists for X seconds after leaving Hallowed Ground

With that simple change even Frames not built for Armor could benefit from the tankyness Oberon grants as opposed to the old power which granted 2 armor to Banshee *lol*. There would also be a bigger reason to enter Oberon's "home turf" and stay close to his epic balls... getting that sweet healing all over you *insert Uranus joke*

I however certainly agree that the following changes would contribute a lot (partially from your initial suggestions) :

Hallowed Ground safeguarding against all debuffs (except knockdown) including energy drain
Hallowed Ground augment Hallowed Sanctum: HG sticking with Oberon as a circular aura
Renewal change to Traveltime (I think a complete change/nullification would go to far but traveling a additional % of the total distance each second could work)
Renewals Bleedout increase also affecting Dead allies
Renewal charges up Inaros Sarcophagus slowly
Slightly more Armor and/or Health

Concerning Trinity:

I feel she cannot be truly fixed until we have Damage 3.0 and know wether Frames are supposed to die in a battle of atrition or being fragged in a mere moment after making a mistake.

It certainly feels as DE aims for slower deaths with all the recent additions (tons of armor buffs, aswell as Inaros, the tankiest frame alive) and Steve's post "no more oneshots" ...atleast I hope thats about the players not the bosses...

But there is no telling if there is a place for a full Healing frame in a game where it is much easier to just pick up the person under the cover of CC, not to mention a proper CC frame also netting much more Survivability compared to some tiny healthpools (also not considering how easy healing would be if energy orbs were substituted by healing orbs)

Maybe a simple revival ult could work out for her, having a casting animation of 1-2 seconds and a very small range.

This would leave WOL for all the heavy duty healing without substracting from her overall value too much.

April 7, 2016

Cool3303

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Posts posted by Cool3303

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Cap the Cumulative Login System's Unique Rewards

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totally crazy idea

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