Graavarg

When you solo SP it is more about choosing your setup and how good you are playing that setup, than about having über-gear or being an über twitch-gamer. That is the best part of SP (in my opinion), that when either soloing or co-op endurance farming what gear you select actually matters a little depending on the mission type. On the normal starchart you can (after reaching a certain "level" of "power") just blindly grab a warframe and still finish every mission. Effervo is a mission (type) where you actually only need to kill "a few" enemies and the boss, and keep the "eye mechanism" functioning. Or you can go the other way and homicidally kill everything, which according to some is how the game is "supposed to be played" and to others just w*nking off to the force-fed "power fantasy" (as there always are other, more intelligent options). Getting "swamped" by enemies is kinda part of the Effervo mission setup (in all the phases), so there is no way to avoid that happening (except occasional luck with the map and the spawning mechanism), but there are ways to handle it. The rest is just basic Warframe/SP making sure you are "not going down too easily" and "not dying one time too many". As this is about SP, it includes handling the acolytes effectively so they don't interfere with achieving the mission objective. There are quite a few warframe selections and builds that can handle all that, without face-tanking everything with a full tau-forged, god-rivened setup copied from Youtube. Different options handling it quite well even, and generally possible to tune those builds to your own liking, even if "SP" plus "soloing" limits the options a bit. Not going to spoil your fun by suggesting anything, and since you know much better than anyone else how you yourself like to play and putting a "bespoke setup" together is, probably, the most fun you can have in Warframe ("putting something together that works and then enjoying using it" is a core human thing, we start with that in kindergarden 🙂). Just break down what you feel that you need and which parts of the mission feels hard/problematic and scroll mentally through possible solutions you might have available in your arsenal/orbiter as a "cure" or a "fix". If you get really desperate and/or stumped, ask for a "build" for solo SP Effervo on the forum, there are both extremely knowledgeable Tenno and single-minded power fantasists willing to help out. You'll get a lot more fun and satisfaction by coming up with your own working solution though...

1. More riven slots, ideally limited only by the number of weapon (types) in your collection/arsenal. 2. Tauforged shards removed, weapon buffs removed from all shards and replaced with warframe buffs instead (the options are endless once you think "outside the box"). 3. The SP toggle removed and all SP missions included/inserted into the normal starchart instead. SP content is fine, but the "another immersion-breaking alternate parallel SP universe"-toggle is not. 4. An additional warframe augment mod slot, usable only for augments and without increasing mod space. And more augments, life needs flavor to taste good and so does Warframe. 5. A new schyster-trader, selling everything (that no-one else is selling) for anything, but at totally horrible prices. To function as the ultimate bad luck-antidote, giving players the option to "nullify" situations getting caught in the lower end of the statistical Bell curve. It is a mathematical fact that a certain percentage of players will NOT get a drop even in 100X as many tries as the mean, and for quite a lot of content there is currently no way out of this statistical "black hole". The option to neutralize such "bad luck" is sorely needed, and even if the price is exorbitant it would be a boon if players knew that getting something is not only down to RNG, despite the alternative being "an insane amount" of farming. Having such a mechanism in the game would also incidentally give "worthless" resources back some value, as players would have the option to "pre-farm" stocks as an insurance against future "total bad luck". 6. A meaningful "path back in", totally based on co-op (and clans?). Being the "sole survivor" of a clan with all previous members still liking Warframe but at the same time not prepared for months (and months) of farming to get up to speed, I would dearly like to see an option for helping each other out. Either by sharing the necessary stuff (reducing the amount needed to be farmed) or speeding up the acquisition (reducing the time needed to farm). It is a kind of a paradox, that there is a large chunk of players out there still liking Warframe a lot, but having to play too much of the game to get back into it. It is, however, also a paradox that the DE dev team could solve. I am very sure that this also applies to "revenue", as plat, boosters and buying sets becomes meaningful only if you can see yourself playing and enjoying the game but meaningless if there is a humongous "wall of farming" stopping you. And we are not talking about "slogging through the game"-players, but "once upon a time all-in top tier"-Tenno. While their own psychological wiring might be the actual cause, they find it too hard to jump back in at a much lower point on the "power curve" and having to spend months and hundreds of hours farming their way back up again. If they are not wanted, fine, they are currently playing other games. But these are the kind of players spending real money on the games they play... 7. A general "remove all immersion-breaking add-ons and layers"-strategy from DE. Yes, digital and mathematical fixes are easy and any dev or programmer can add such boosts and nerfs to any game by ignoring the limits of a coherent in-game universe. The real skill is integrating your math into the game universe, making it logical, immersive, believable and engaging. DE has more and more resorted to immersion-breaking, illogical and in Warframe-universe terms totally inexplicable "fixes", and these should all be considered stop-gap only and resolutely removed over time. I would dearly like to see such a commitment from DE. How this is handled makes all the difference between Warframe being a dressed-up slot machine or an expansive, inherently functional gaming world to play in. 8. A new "5 player"-mission setting, available only for players with high enough computer processing power and (more importantly) good enough network specs. With post-SP difficulty, extra enemies (not just levels, also numbers) and possible twists to all normal missions (like combining several standard objectives into a new parallel meta-objective), and needing all five players joined before mission start. A sort of "raid-lite" version of the normal game, utilizing existing content. Ideally the enemies (selection, spawn locations, behaviour) should be "governed" by a "machine-learning" AI, both getting better over time and during the mission continuously adapting to Tenno warframe and weapon usage, damage types and tactics (which means it could also be "tricked"). And this part of the game could have an additional function as a test bed for "new stuff", in-between the normal game and the test server(s). I'm not all that drop-fixated, so I would be fine with a "break into the treasure room and pick one", from a random small selection of all rare drops in the game. Having such a huge and random drop pool would put the onus on actually enjoying and beating the mission, instead of doing the mission repeatedly as a "farm" for a specific resource/drop.

It's been on-and-off since before Xmas. Mostly no problem at all, but losing server connection at he wrong moment sucks. While Baro arriving (with some new stuff, even) seems like a very logical reason ("server/network load") it also happens during decidedly "non-peak" times (like between 08-11 CET, when most of the Europa/N-A gamers are sleeping or doing other stuff). For some reason it almost never happens while "in mission" (which IS a good thing 🙂), but instead during mission selection, while loading missions and even while placing decorations in Dojo. And occasionally when logging in.

Ok. I checked the wiki, but couldn't find the actual formula. However, did some testing with the help of Excel and I am pretty sure this is the case.

I thought I knew most of the tricks of the trade, but I am not quite sure about the "Wind Up"-numbers in the arsenal. On a weapon that has 1.0 as Wind Up when unmodded, adding a fully ranked Killing Blow ("+60% Heavy Wind Up Speed") will change the Wind Up to 0.6. Further adding a fully ranked Amalgam Organ Shatter (also "+60% Heavy Wind Up Speed") will change the value to 0.5. My guess is that the calculation is done according to 100% / (100%+bonus %), as this would fit (accepting Warframe rounding the numbers, also this type of calculation is also used for some other stats). 100%/(100%+60%) gives a reduction down to 62.5%, turning 1.0 into (a rounded) 0.6. The calculation for using both mods would then be 100%/(100%+60%+60%), a reduction down to 45,4% of the original/normal value. Which results in 0.5 when Warframe rounds 45,4% * 1 (the original/normal value). Does anyone know if this is the correct "deduction" of how the Wind Up calculation is done?

I don't agree with some decisions DE makes for Warframe, but daring to go "completely cross platform" is one heck of a brave move. Making that decision is the real success, the rest is mostly "nuts and bolts". Admittedly, there is a humongous amount of those nuts and bolts, many of which don't fit together. And I am saying this as a "will never touch a console with a stick" dedicated PC-only gamer. Cross Platform is a huge service for all players, and I sincerely hope it will prove to be a boon for DE and add years of life and content to Warframe. - - - I do hope that the next move after Cross Platform will be to strenghten the "core Warframe", from E Prime to the outermost reach of the Warframe universe. The success of Whispers is not only that the most common feedback is "this is fun to play", but that the fun comes from adding more "new components" to the current game, rather than expanding it with "new content". An intricate, complicated and extremely diverse Warframe universe with a mind-boggling amount of "things to do" will keep players playing, a dumbed-down rush for ultimate power will burn that interest out. There is a new "post-youth" frontier currently opening up in the gaming world, with gamers getting back to (or continuing) gaming into their normal, settled, "grown-up" life. The most potent selling point for the games they play is the recreation of the feeling they once experienced (thus all the remakes and "re-concepts"), and nothing can create that better than a game that is still going strong, over ten years later. But "grown-ups" have work, family, money and much less time to play ("the rule of life" 🙂), and burning through a game as quickly as possible is just a totally ridiculous concept. But a vibrant, functional and diverse gaming universe, where you can jump in for 20 minutes or 2 hours and get on with whatever "project" you are currently is engaged in, and even seamlessly play both "alone" and with your family and friends, now that is one sure winner. So is Warframe's F2P + "speed up the chores by paying"-concept, when you have the money but not the time...

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, but I do think you are missing a central part. Raids are meant to be ultimate co-op missions. That means that in addition to "combat difficulty" and "mechanical difficulty" you also have "teamwork difficulty". And as a very central thing too. In any worthwhile raid, you can't just round up a certain number of randoms using whatever equipment and playstyle they like, and while in mission everyone can't just do their own thing. Which is why most Warframe missions plays as the opposite to raids. Also, the difficulty with Warframe bosses are damage and gimmicks, there is very little else to do aside from figuring out/handling the boss gimmicks and tanking damage while dealing damage. Stuff like "stand on plates" or "flip switch X, Y, Z" are easily meaningless gimmicks (as they were in the previous raids) and shouldn't even be in a raid (it's pre-kindergarden stuff where real raids are concerned). Better raids are also designed to NOT follow the same identical path every time, you might know the boss(es), their summons, the tells etc. etc., but you can never be totally sure exactly how the fights will happen. This "pseudo-randomness" factor gets reduced in really high-level raids, due to the difficulty getting cranked up, which in turn actually makes them less fun to play than well-designed mid-level raids. I consider Trids to be the best "raid-like" experience in Warframe, because a co-op team with roles is much more effective than anything else. While some other bosses, events or operations have some raid-type stuff going on they never actually determine anything. This is not because Warframe design sucks, it is simply because a huge part of the game is "random squads" and "solo play". Some prerogatives. Because it is "a raid", we can drop "design for solo play", as raids are multi-player co-op by default. The very first design challenge then becomes how to make a squad of 4, 6 or 8 randoms behave like trained unit. Because a Warframe "raid" really has to be open to randoms, otherwise there are groups and clans that will (once again) behave like less-than-human idiots/a-holes. In my opinion the best way to do this is by presenting the gathered squad with a mission brief and doling out "role cards" and allowing players to switch roles (better than allowing players to select them). Roles could be both functional ("tank", "healer", "sniper", "sneaker" etc.) and linked to specific in-mission tasks ("in phase 2, got here and to that, when the bridge/door/whatever is blown up"). This card should be an active part of the raid "HUD" (showing that players objectives and tracking the raid progress). This means that Warframe/DE would have to make a 180 degree turn, and actually explain explicitly how to finish a mission/raid in advance. "Going in blind without clue" would be replaced by "going in prepped, with a plan, and with a designed task/role for everyone". In order to make the raid fun, it cannot be just a complicated list of "go there, do that, get the reward", even if there are different roles and stuff. That is just a more complex version of "go stand on your plate". There has to be action and reaction, stuff happening that makes things (and "the plan") go sideways, downways, upways and backways. And force the raiding team to respond, in part or in full. With how Warframe currently works, there are actually a lot of options. A technically simple one is serialized spawns: enemies that can call other enemies that can summon or build other stuff. If you don't break that chain you will be in trouble/swamped. You can have other factions randomly also deciding to raid, turning part of the mission into a three-way fight. Enemies can turn out light (like really turn out light) by destroying a generator (that can be repaired). There are lots of environmental variables that can be put in play. Ammo can be limited (having to take raiding enemy ammo storage into account), invisibility can be counteracted (even Grineers can throw cans of paint around). I agree that the power we have is insanely high. Insane because we can do much, much, MUCH more damage with "normal" weapons that we can handle ourselves. As a result the only way to balance the game is to make enemies insanely tanky, in that they can take MUCH more damage than they dish out. However, in a way this is a zero sum game, as it is all about balance (the numbers are actually unimportant). Also, that balance is geared for single player power vs multiple enemies, which is why even in a squad of our any well-equipped player could handle all the killing in a mission. I am fairly sure that this could be tweaked into working quite well, raid-wise. That is why our power itself is not a problem, that the power is "general" (everything kills everything fast) is a much bigger problem. The easiest way to address this would (of course) be upping enemy immunity to certain damage types. This is quite close to (some) existing design and easily implemented. It would be much more interesting if such immunity was an in-mission thing, resulting from the enemy reacting to Tenno damage (getting "anti-viral shots", "non-conductive armor coating", "anti-toxin diffusers" etc., which can be destroyed). All such details adds to the "randomness" and makes the raid more interesting, and allows "good squads" to be more effective. An "easy add" would also be enemy healers, even allowing them resurrect enemies immediately after death. Finally, raids should differ from much of the rest of the game by NOT being two things: - They should not be about FARMING loot, time and time and time again. So much of the game is like that already, and that is sure to trigger the "I want everything at once without effort"-brigade. With the humongous amount of content in Warframe it should not be impossible to fill that final treasure room with meaningful stuff that players can select. Boosters, arcanes, vaulted relics, skins and cosmetics, weapons, mods, adapters, even companion genetic prints (with some defined traits), rivens (and riven "lock one attribute while rolling"-adapters), invigoration cards (for equipping into the Helminth), shards... Warframe itself is like a g'damn mega-size treasure house so just by getting to select from huge mix of stuff (with us not even knowing what CAN drop) would be "exciting". - And they should NOT be "easy". "Failure" should be the most common outcome. Failure need not mean coming out empty-handed, as rewards can be added incrementally during progression. But getting to the end and "winning" should actually mean something, and be the result of teamwork. Currently there is no such content in the game (not even the new boss). Having "teamwork" as the most important factor would foster both co-op and clans, making both more meaningful again.

This ^^^. As for breaking containers at a distance (which will quickly become a "must" 🙂), for "total chill" play I prefer a max-range min-duration Limbo. Basically because he can "rift" if the going gets too tough, and replacing one ability is an easy selection (1 or 3). And he can also "rift" if you need to answer the phone, warm a pizza or go to the bathroom. There are other (slightly better) options for a more active solo playstyle, but Limbo is the ultimate "Mr. Chill". If you are looking for Voca (and other special stuff), Golden Spark and Orokin Eye are quite helpful...

Even with the knowledge that there IS a vent and that it is in the CEILING and to the LEFT I couldn't find the bloody thing. But a picture says more than a thousand words 😀. Thanks guys, that room was driving my completionist soul insane... [leaving marked Voca behind "makes me ill"...]

Yup, it's the one close to the purple brain. I'll check next time I come across it. I feel I've been all over every bloody square centimeter, but I've probably missed something self-evident...

I can't for the life of me find a way into this room (green circle). Has anyone figured it out? There is often Voca hidden in the room, sometimes several...

In my opinion this sucks so immensely the only way to keep your sanity is to AFK the whole thing. Or even better, just let it pass you by. 30 minutes of this is not worth a catalyst. Not even close. Just about any other mission in PvE Warframe Universe is more fun than this. Much more fun. It also has absolutely nothing to do with any Warframe "git gud", that is just silly. On the other hand the only positive is that it doesn't matter how much you suck at the actual game, you can still "win" your exciting snowball fight. Especially on some platforms. I got hijacked into one match when the event dropped, and joined a friend today for another match. Never again. Never ever ever again. I actively hate this.

Lets just not start the "shard war" again. We never needed a single shard, the whole idea was messed up from the start, and as a result we now have a co-op mission actually giving different awards to the team members due to all this idiocy. Which feels so immensely unfair and illogical that as soon as the new mission arrives none of my guys is ever going to do an Archon Hunt again. Unless DE changes it back to everyone on the team getting the same reward, which is how any true co-op mission should work. We all lift together, and we get the same reward for lifting together. As for tau-forged shards, there was never ever any intention that we would get a lot of them, and even the idea of getting "enough" of them is mathematically impossible (unless you just play a few warframes out of the 50+ available). The whole shards system would have been immensely better if there would have been just normal shards and no tau-variants, since that would have put the focus on the "flavor" they offer. DE could have made the easier to get, and the new mixing system would have fit right in. Even the power-crazies would have been content, and the rather insane "tau-fever" outbreak would never have happened. DE is for once doing a really smart thing: flooding the game with normal shards that can be mixed together in new and interesting ways and be collected with a new farm will pull the focus from the tau-forged variants back to simply "shards". Sure, tau-forged shards will still be "more powerful" (oooh, I'm shaking...) but who cares, since we'll have a LOT more normal ones and we don't actually need a single shard for any content in the game. All rivens can't be "god rolls" and all shards can't be tau, and this does not affect playing the game in ANY meaningful way, so...

In my opinion an easier way to handle this would be to simply allow for separately forma'ed slots in different builds ("upgrade slots"). Which in turn could be handled by a "forma dislocator adaptor" or something, making that build slot separate from the other builds slots and allowing you to re-sort and forma slot without affecting the other builds. And vice versa, of course. It's not more elegant or anything, compared to a "universal forma". I think it is a better approach since it would affect the current systems less. Logically it is just like having two warframes in one, the function is almost exactly like building another copy of the same warframe and forma'ing that differently. Which you can currently do (however, having all those warframe copies REALLY is a chore). And while DE is at it, they could improve the warframe handling with a system that allows us to lock an "upgrade slot" and an appearance slot together, so that a certain build ("upgrade slot") would look the same way when you select it.

Well, I need another 180 riven slots too, preferably by tomorrow. As for playing while waiting, well, there are other games. And no reason to buy any plat, either.

My advice: if you encounter idiots in Warframe, which happens (but rarely), just leave. Doesn't matter if it is how they play (or don't play) or what they put in the chat, or voice. Life is too short, the risk is too great (hitting back is just as big an offence as hitting first, even though it doesn't feel that way) and all you'll get out of it is raising your own aggro. And maybe most of all because the occasional a-hole acting up needs that reaction from you, so the best you can do is ignore them. Just put a polite "bye" in the chat and leave. Let them steam in their own sh*tpile, all by themselves.

No, I don't think that I am misunderstanding the discussion. But any meaningful discussion needs to start from a common set of facts or parameters in order to not just become an opinion-driven squabble and/or a screaming match, which is why I wanted to point out that an augment slot actually and factually "adds variety". That is not the whole issue, just one of basic premises for the discussion. Another premise is the logical conclusion that a meta-driven quest for "power" is "anti-variety" by it's very nature, as it explicitly compares "varieties" and then discards less powerful "varieties" in favor of more powerful ones (until there is only one left, the "most efficient/powerful"). I completely and absolutely agree with you that "fun" is THE most important thing, both for computer gaming in general, Warframe overall and with regard to variety. From this follows that "variety" has to be a source of fun to be a meaningful component in the game, otherwise it is mostly meaningless. Like a menu with a thousand dishes that looks very impressive, but you will only ever select between a few of them, rendering 99% of "the variety" meaningless. A meaningful version of that menu (from a variety viewpoint) would be one where you would enjoy picking new dishes to eat until you had tried most of them. Power is also quite important and a source for fun in Warframe, since it is a game of "progression" towards handling more difficult content (tougher enemies). Difficulty increases in the starchart and later, special "more difficult" missions exist (the sortie etc.) and all "endless" mission type increase difficulty as you go on. So increasing you power and being able to handle "more" is also fun. The third of three most important "in game"-characteristics (for any computer game) is "engagement", which for some players is a more important source of fun than either "power" or "variety", but since it functions along it's own axis (just like power and variety) it is fairly irrelevant for this discussion. To the point (and my morning coffee cup is almost empty too 🙂): Warframe has become so infused with a focus on "power" that a discussion about the importance of variety seems to veer into "but that is also about power"-territory almost immediately. That is why it is important to recognize that variety is NOT about power, and that they measure the game in so different dimensions that you can't group them, together and have a meaningful discussion. Which is why threads about "variety" tend to quickly get subsumed into the "power fantasy", instead of focusing on the fun you get explicitly from having access to and using the variety of the game content. This "power oblitering everything else" is a quite peculiar Warframe-thing, you won't the same kind of mindset in a game like WoW (just to pick an example) about which class or setup is "the most powerful", since everyone implicitly understands that they are all "different", they play "differently" and that a large part of the fun is choosing between both classes and gear (and a lot of other stuff besides). WoW is also about "power progression" (and even about co-op), but the idea that everyone should want to play "druid" and use the same skills and gear is completely ridiculous. While in Warframe it seems to be a core goal, reaching that singular "meta top". Even in a game like LoL, which pits players vs. players and there is a pro league continuously figuring out "most powerful" stuff at a very high level and there is an active and ongoing meta-discussion, it would be quite a ridiculous concept that everyone should always use the same "meta" (in the same lane). Especially in non-pro play, where part of the fun comes from trying out all the possible champions. There are quite a lot more games to pick from, but comparing games is not actually all that useful for a meaningful discussion about "variety" in Warframe. However, in order to have that meaningful discussion you need to de-mix "the power fantasy" from "variety", as they (really) are different things. You fall into the "power fantasy" trap when you claim that "variety" is subservient to "power", that variety is just a secondary part of the game designed only to make that all-important "power climb" more interesting. That is simply viewing the whole game through the "power fantasy"-lens, once again. It's still "all about power", and in practical terms all about selecting and DISCARDING variety in order to climb the "power fantasy"-ladder. It's about trying to find the best dish on the big menu, not about trying all of them. I whole-heartedly agree that the "power"-dimension is an important one in Warframe, but I completely disagree with the concept that it is the singular one, or even the singular "most important" one. Playing Warframe "differently", by being able to utilize the variety (already in the game) is just as an important part. And adding that augment slot (or even more than one slot) would allow players to use that variety better and for more fun. That the "power crazies" wouldn't use them (because they already have their "meta build") or that they "don't add even more power" is completely and totally irrelevant, from a variety point of view. An augment slot would add the option for more variety, period. And variety is important, all in itself. That a player need to step away from a "power is everything"-view of the game to actually enjoy the variety for it's own sake is a "between the ears"-problem, and while one could fault DE for continuously feeding that mindset the choice is 100% the player's. Just had to comment this too, because your idea of 64 mod slots vs. variety is actually correct (or "true"), though maybe a tad overblown (😉). From a variety perspective, that is. If the premise would be to allow all and any players the absolute maximum use of (modded) variety, without allowing "more power", you would need to remove the limitations on usage and keep the limitations on "power". That boils down to keeping the current "mod space" and having the maximum amount of "mod slots" you could (mathematically) need. Since non-upgraded mods commonly take up more "space" than 1 and you can slot only one of each mod, the "max slots"-number is less than 64. And no, I don't think having 30 or 40 mod slots is a good idea, but it WOULD allow more variety and diversity than the current system. In more ways than one actually, because even if it is not necessarily significant for this thread the option of having more slots that you could forma would allow you quite a lot of more relevant builds as well (imagine having 8 slots forma'ed per every polarity). However, since forma'ed slots are as much about "power" as about "variety" that is a different discussion. I agree with you on the psychology. Even while it is true of most forums on the might internet, "psychology factors" tend to influence the factual discussion quite a lot, and often to a degree that obscures, obfuscates or even destroys any meaningful discussion. Unless one considers it "meaningful" venting one's own feelings, pre- or misconceptions, "values" or other "mental" stuff. As for devs, they do not exist in a vacuum where they can implement solutions that are most meaningful for players playing the game, since there are other factors involved (like "money"). They are also not über-humans (I don't know anyone at DE but I do know a few devs, and they are quite "normal" even if generally true to form: introvert and a bit nerdy). Development processes and decisions are also seldom consensus-driven, or even factually decided, there are usually core differences between "technical aspects", "content aspects" and "economical aspects", and things can get even more complicated if you add "creative aspects". The first three are all fact-driven, but they all use different sets of facts. The last one is feelings-driven, a "creative vision". While the first three can (and have to) learn to co-exist, the last one often throws all that into the blender (for good and/or bad).

I'm not all that keen on debating this, since my initial point was along the lines of "the world is round, not flat". But I'll point a few such things out before moving on. Yes, exactly. And 8 slots available for modding is "more limitation" compared to 8 slots + separate augment slot(s). You can produce more variety with 8+1 slots than with 8 slots, with the same content (mods). It is an indisputable mathematical fact. It really is. And it leads inevitably to the logical conclusion (which can be proven mathematically too) that "adding an augment slot creates the potential for more variety". There is no point whatsoever debating or "having opinions" on this, since it is all fact and math. Unless one belongs to the "bonkers brigade" (closely affiliated with the "flat earthers"). So I'll repeat: adding an augment slot creates the potential for more variety. Period. I don't care about the the "value" of the actual augments themselves, and would politely point out that this is a completely separate question. This thread is about adding an augment slot, not about changing what all kinds of augments do. I would also like to point out that you again slip into some sort of "meta"-thinking, leaving variety behind and instead adding "worth" and "doing more". Variety is a goal in itself, characterized by (surprise, surprise) being a bit "different". The actual "worth" of variety is this difference. And as can (also) be logically proven, meta is all about singularity, which is the opposite of variety. So while different "augmented" warframe builds obviously can be more or less "powerful" than other builds, what actually matters from a variety-viewpoint is that they play "differently". If you include "power", you will immediately compare the builds from an entirely different perspective as "power" is a universal measure (theoretically even). And "universal" is once again the opposite of variety, which creates "diversity". While this might sound a bit philosophical it is also completely and totally true. I completely agree with you, but that is a DIFFERENT debate. You are talking about what the augments themselves do (from a "power" and/or "effectiveness" viewpoint, not a variety/diversity one). Which is a relevant discussion too, regardless of having extra augment slot or not. But which also is irrelevant regarding the point that an additional augment slot really, logically, mathematically, truly, absolutely WOULD ADD MORE VARIETY. How powerful and how fun that variety is, and how many players would prefer using that new variety (instead of indulging in their meta/power fantasy) is another question. I agree with you that this discussion is also quite relevant, but it does not detract from the mathematical fact that we need an augment slot (or slots) in order to immediately get more variety from the already existing content.

This isn't quite true. First of all, if you have the augment in your build and move it to the new augment slot, you are still limited to the same mod space. So unless you have forma'ed and modded your warframe in a way that leaves you with unused mod space, you actually cannot put another mod ("next choice in line") in the now freed slot. In order to do that, you would have to remove another "high-mod capacity" mod from your and replace that mod with two "lesser" mods. That is why get more variety. Which btw is not a matter of opinion, it is a logical mathematical fact (by freeing up and using the mod slot previously used for the augment for another mod, you've just exchanged 25% of your mod slots for other mods). The argument that it would "change nothing" because you will immediately get a new meta (utilizing the new augment slot) is disingenious. First of all there is always "a meta" (that is also a logical, mathematical fact). Secondly it is completely irrelevant, because meta'ists will always meta anyway and this change is not for them, it is a change aimed at the players that want variety in their builds. I'll repeat this because it is a core argument: there is only one meta (though theoretically that "most effective" setup could be two equally effective but different builds), which makes meta the anti-thesis of variety. Meta has NOTHING to do with variety, and would use an augment slot for one thing only: that single most effective build. However, for all those players NOT fixated on the meta and especially for those players that enjoy VARIETY, one or more augment-specific slots would mean a great deal. So release your mind, momentarily, from the meta/power-fixation and THINK: it is a mathematical and logical FACT that you can achieve MORE VARIETY with 8 slots and 1 augment slot than with 8 slots only. It adds that increased potential for variety for every single player in the game, but if and how you use that potential is, of course, up to you. So, claiming that an added augment-specific slot would NOT increase variety is, logically speaking, a false statement. It simply isn't true. Finally, I didn't pick your response to pick on you personally/specifically, rather the opposite (your arguments were clear and the post was well-written = easy to comment).

Yep. But it doesn't actually say that the stuff doesn't have to be IN the Gear Wheel (or that you can't even put it there). After all, there are other missions (like Razorback) in the game where the relevant stuff HAS to be in the Gear Wheel but isn't manually contributed (for those players not using it manually).

Yes, we do. Though we don't need more mod space, just the augment slot(s). It's quite simple: the amount of "mod space" limits power, the amount of "mod slots" limits variety. Anyone claiming that more variety would be generally "bad for Warframe" has to be straight-out bonkers. It would be quite easy to add more variety (in the form of augment-only slot(s)) without adding more power, and that would be one heck of a "win-win". As for the "I don't use augments"-crowd: Who cares, and why should you care about hindering other players from using them. *** Addition *** As for the "we don't need more power"-crowd: Of course we don't. We didn't even need Shards, not for "power". We haven't needed "more power" since I don't know when. But what boggles my mind is how anyone with half a brain can state "we don't need more power", "augments are not powerful" and "so we don't need augments" in the same post. It is a truly illogical and senseless mindspace, that one. And just to make everything crystal: augments are FLAVOR, not POWER.

I am not saying that you are, just that summaries are for idiots and bosses.

No, this is simplification and a generalization. Warframe, like most long-time online games, lives and dies by it's content. All of it's content. Of course new content helps, if it is fun to play. But it is the core game that keeps players playing for years, and it is also the core game that underpins the interest in "new stuff". However, adding new warframes and primes, as well as vaulting existing primes and their relics is, as I see it, by now "core Warframe". And has been for a good many years, even if how it all works has been tweaked now and then. The problem is not adding more warframe or weapons, but adding stuff that is REALLY new and STILL fits into the game universe. That's where the design went off the rails at one point, when the only "new" thing they could come up with was "even more damage output". That is "casino" thinking, luring customers back by promising an "extra special chance to win, only for you". What that does, by default, is destroy "core" content while not actually adding anything new (except "more power", in the case of Warframe). And that is also when your put the whole game on a slippery slope and start losing players. It might be called a "fantasy power race to the top", but what it really is, logically speaking, is a race to the bottom. It is an elementary generally occurring process all around us, and even considered a part of "marketing". But by it's very nature it is a short-lived process with an inherent "best before"-date that continuously digs a hole you can't get out from, unless you do a restart/re-boot which size depends on how deep you've dug.

There is probably a datestamp/timestamp that will solve that little conundrum admirably...

Not quite, I ask for a subscription service where players could spend real money to sidestep the un-fun parts of the game. A service that would only be available after reaching Legendary rank (which is a totally "been there done that"-state in Warframe) and only payable with real money (not plat). 😀 We all did that a long time ago, I just happened to be the one that persisted playing Warframe. For the last couple of years mostly because the game synced so well with the Corona-pandemic, "working from home" and hours upon hours of (mostly) boring online meetings. You look "seriously active" in your Skype/Zoom/Webex-meeting when on camera but mute and playing Warframe. The point is that we all liked and still like voice-based co-op in Warframe = everyone likes actually playing the game, together. But the current mechanisms just add burdens to the general meaningless of it all => if we could pay to make the bad sh*t go away and have fun playing Warframe again, well, that would be what gaming is all about: having fun.