[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

2 minutes ago, Altre said:

For the sake of us not spending more time of our day than necessary on this, and I understand what you feel, I'll conclude my point.

Looting is a mechanic. The vacuum is a mod that interacts with the looting mechanic. I have always enjoyed this mechanic. Many other people that I have played with have enjoyed this mechanic. What a large universal vacuum would do to me, as well as other, negatively is affect an aspect of the game that made me like it in the first place and I would like people to be able to identify that looting is an enjoyable mechanic, like rushing to a Christmas tree for presents as a child or diving into candy from a piniata. There are games that have "loot rush" stages, which is what it I'm somewhat reminded of when looting. I think I'm just bothered that I haven't seen validation that people DO enjoy this.

Honestly, I'm not sure why I hopped into this debate and I suck at expressing myself. It's not a huge issue. If they change it, I will lose no sleep over it. I just don't want to game to warp into a Sci-fi COD, based around instant gratification.

Besides the bit of patronizing, I admire your resilience, Juicy. Apero, I apologize if it seems like I've ignored you. I had tried addressing Juicy initially and have been doing this on my phone. My hands are not well suited for extended debates and it's hard to pull everyone's updated input. lol

Juicy asked me to do the same thing, though....

Good night (or morning?), folks.

Well, I merely intended for you to read my own comments. They weren't particularly long. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

12 minutes ago, Altre said:

Pulling from what I've stated, "I never said I was against universal vacuum. I'm against a larger universal vacuum. It still functions at it used to with the added benefit of being able to access items that land in unfortunately odd places. I do accept that. You saying manual pick ups are out-dated doesn't actually make it out-dated. You have a vacuum. Use the mod."

Juicy was being patronizing and yeah, the slight stutter added to your interpretation of my words is patronizing, rather than understanding. If "Fiddling with words" is how you describe people talking, I'd say that's what we're all doing. Why even make that statement? I'm literally saying that I agree with the devs because I like the system they have. I haven't said that they are the end-all-be-all of reason, just that I agree with their system. Saying that I've ignored your argument because I don't agree with it isn't going to change the fact that I'm literally stating that your argument hasn't brought up any pertinent points against what I've said. Let's stop pointing fingers. Quote my actual argument and make a convincing opposing point or acknowledge that it's simply not pertinent.

Well, it's hard to contain that feeling in my posts when I ask point blank for an argument about how this change could negatively impact the game and I get nothing but this:

47 minutes ago, Altre said:

I never said I was against universal vacuum. I'm against a larger universal vacuum. It still functions at it used to with the added benefit of being able to access items that land in unfortunately odd places. I do accept that. You saying manual pick ups are out-dated doesn't actually make it out-dated. There is still manual pick-up, it got the fix it needed. You have a vacuum for expanded range in the form of a mod. Use the mod.

The devs have already expressed that they have valid input in the game and I see value in what they've expressed. If you lack the ability to understand that there IS NO VALUE in your need for a larger universal vacuum, then I can't continue the debate. The health of the game is fine. They've done very well for themselves so far and don't need to pander to everyone's whims when players don't understand aspects of what makes a game interesting. JuicyPop, your use of emboldening quote text is not helping emphasize any part of your argument because you haven't done anything more than patronize the argument of others after you ran out of what you consider to be logic. You literally haven't made a conclusive point beyond what you've previously said, which ISN'T ENTIRELY CONCLUSIVE. You have made no wholly sound argument and have ignored my points.

It's ok, guys. You have universal vacuum and a mod that achieves your other utilitarian needs. Use the mod. You're not being ignored, that's why I'm still discussing this.

32 minutes ago, Altre said:

I've always viewed the game like gardening or fishing. You take your time and appreciate the scenery and details.

My doggos and kittehs aren't afraid of my Hoover, just don't try to put the Hoover in weird places or on their tails. :D

I'll ask again. What is the basis of your rationale for opposing this change? 

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, but if you have a compelling case to make then I want to see it. I'm interested in seeing if there are actual, valid reasons to be opposed to this other than some vague sense of how the game should be. I don't see them, but if others do I want to be enlightened. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

9 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

 

I submit that parkour 2.0 solved pretty much every looting problem. You can get to everything, quickly and easily. Pushing a button twice to alter your course isnt really effecting your game play. Or are suggesting that you count every key stroke in the name of efficiency?

I'm simply saying that the "cat is already out of the bag" and the vacuum mod is too powerful to be an exclusive feature for one set of companions. I'd go so far to say that I'd prefer to see the mod deleted if there is no conceivable way to get DE to settle on transitioning to uni-vac. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

2 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Actually, it's not just a band-aid. For certain games vacuum is a legit looting mechanic that simply makes looting process more intuitive. I could name two games that I know of: "Nier: Automata" and "Ratchet and Clank". 

 Nier in particular is incredibly similar to Warframe in ways more than one.

I didn't mean the mechanic itself, but the mod specifically. DE just has an issue with implementing half-measures. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

5 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

For what, specific reason though?

Variety? You already have that. There are already choices to make, trade offs to accept. You already accept trade offs in every aspect of your load out. 

Because the game is evolving beyond a simple hallway shooter and the looting mechanics that were developed for an era where coptering was an unintentional quirk of the physics engine are ill-equipped for this new reality. 

Vacuum is a band-aid for an issue that should have been addressed with the launch of parkour 2.0. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

1 minute ago, Altre said:

I've always viewed the game like gardening or fishing. You take your time and appreciate the scenery and details.

I did that the first time around. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

10 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

Im definitely seeing a lot of the same. Vacuum because vacuum and the faux altruism "for the player base", which it isnt. 

Folks want the double resources and convenience of a vacuum, but just cant come out and say it. It looks greedy and lazy, so they dont say it. A little honesty would go a long way. 

No, I just want my fluffy animals to stop being afraid of my Hoover. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You're missing one very important fact. Vacuum is already in the game and isn't going anywhere. Vacuum now is an integral part of the looting system. The looting system changed. There is no manual looting system in Warframe anymore. Manual pickups are anachronistic at this point and entirely skippable. Really, lack of UV only affects companions at this point. Otherwise it changes nothing for the game. The times when manual pickups were fit to a slower-paced "both-feet-on-the-ground" Warframe are gone. It's an outdated mechanic that doesn't fit the modern build of the game.

 

 

There's your valid point.^

And the problem is he simply thinks otherwise – that the game needs to feel like a goddamn chore at all times – so he'll just ignore your post. 

It's just about as succinct as you can put it though. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

25 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Well, that may be a bit of a selective name.

I run a lot of melee heavy stuff. I love my Eternal War Valkyr, and my Toxic Lash plague-spreader Saryn, so I'm always melee striking to get their health back. I also run Hirudo a lot so I can do quick melee and get health back (rather than needing to completely swap, and use Life Strike), so my melee damage keeps their health topped up.

Couple that with the fact that their health, armour and shields are based off yours, and scale higher than yours, and they become incredibly hard to take down. I bust out a War Cry for myself and my Kubrow, and we just annihilate everything. My Sahasa and Sunika's finisher attacks are still taking out heavy units long after my melee damage has begun to plummet, which is why I'm arguing so strongly for them

Vacuum from a Sentinel only lasts until you run out of Sentinel revives, which is capped to 1 for people who don't have the Primed Regen mod yet. I want to play an 80 minute survival to farm X resource for whatever reason. I take my Sentinel, it's dead by wave 35. I take my Kubrow or Kavat, it doesn't even go down once. If my Sentinel dies, I have to loot everything "the hard way" anyway, which is not an issue at all, especially if you use melee. 

To be completely honest and sincere, the ONLY reason I've been running Sentinels lately is the amount of Plains of Eidolon content I've been doing. Because of the huge distance scale, Kubrows and Kavats don't really end up using their abilities, and they don't get as much opportunity to attack since they stick by you. Of course, I'm not bringing Sentinels for damage, just Helios for free scans and Carrier if I'm bringing a poor ammo-economy weapon. 

I've taken my sentinel vacuum off for PoE though. Adding Archwing Launchers to the list of things that can be Vacuumed is a nightmare. I run 6-7 Teralysts per night, and we deploy our archwings before the end of the battle to keep things streamlined, but then we all suffer having them pulled from their spots and activated automatically. That, and because sentinel Vacuum is still buggy, occasionally Carrier would siphon up my Archwing Launcher and not actually give it to me until around 30 seconds had passed and the glitch resolved itself. Thanks to the new hotfix, I can't just put down a second Launcher, so I have to actually wait for this to resolve itself, and that could cost us an entire Teralyst run.

People who are Anti-Pet keep bringing up Kubrows and Kavats getting stuck in doors and dying or becoming useless. This is not a reason to give them vacuum, this is a reason to ask DE to fix this bug so that they can work normally again. It's a poor reason to try to bandaid it with non-fixes, and it's an inappropriate bandaid to try to use. If Sentinels were bugging out, it would be equally unreasonable to ask for them to get buffed.

I really am missing what the point of this anecdote is in the context of the discussion. What are you illustrating here that suggests that uni-vac would be ill-advised? 

6 minutes ago, Altre said:

Patronizing, rather than giving a valid argument is the death of reasonable conversation. Insult isn't "sound reason", it's the end of the use of logic.

Give me valid point that would make me change my view. At least I'm agreeing that I can't convince you, but that's perfectly fine. I'll bow out if you can't provide a convincing argument. Neither of us belong in this arena if we can't convince one another.

I'll ask again, what is your argument against this change that relates to the future health of game? I've given fairly detailed summaries on why I believe it to be a positive move – I'm not going to rehash it for the Nth time so just re-read the thread – and I'm still waiting for a counter that doesn't rely on decrying the player. 

You can easily convince me if there is an actual point to be made. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

3 minutes ago, Altre said:

Already have, that's why I said you have yet to make a convincing arguement...

What you consider convincing has yet to convince me and others, the same as my argument to your side. As it stands, why do the devs need to take more time out of developing more content and refining pertinent aspects of the game for something that isn't broken?

"I don't form my opinions based on facts and sound reasoning, so damned if you think you can convince me with any of that."

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

8 minutes ago, Altre said:

Bud, you have yet to make a sound argument. Pointing out that people haven't convinced you is redundant. That's why people are still discussing it. Tell me why I need universal vacuum and can't enjoy the loot gathering. I've been reading other arguments as to why and have yet to be convinced. I haven't shamed anyone or called anyone lazy.

Re-read this entire thread then. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

31 minutes ago, Altre said:

I swear, [1.] it's like people don't understand the benefit of simply not dying or not having to spend time to build an arsenal, which extends the life of the game. Some argue that it's an artificial extension, I argue that games are artificial to begin with and we don't need instant gratification in every corner of the game.

This is not at all like universal healthcare because it has nothing to do with a real economy or keeping real people alive. I haven't called anyone lazy and have yet to rally "against" anything done to the game. It's an aspect of the game that has always existed, like in many other games, and I feel people like you don't understand it. [2.] Saying that it's reasonable change doesn't make it reasonable. [3.] You can have your vacuum in the form of a mod. It already exists. Pages back, I believe I mentioned as I did in my last post that looting is an aspect of the game. Again, my point is that it's literally an aspect of the game and I've always considered the freedom to choose between utility and combat enjoyable. Taking that away takes away enjoying the loot rush that people like me enjoy.

[4.] Use that parkour 2.0 and climb to that loot with your innate 3m vacuum and profit. I already explained my thoughts on pets vs sentinels. Not sure how one over the other makes a marginal difference by the end of the mission, I have yet to see a difference.

[1.] Emotive appeals are not sound arguments. It's 10 pages in and I'm still waiting to see a detailed response that doesn't rely on shaming others.

[2.] Of course not, but while those in support have taken the time to outline why this change would be beneficial for both the community and DE, the counterargument has been practically non-existent. You need to go into to detail as to why this change would be a negative for the game, not just resort to saying it's not necessary because that argument could be applied to literally every piece of content. 

[3.] And again, you've absolutely whiffed on the point. The issue is that companions [Kubrows/Kavats] will remain in a non-viable state – for the vast majority of the playerbase – so long as vacuum is exclusive to sentinels. This is not a discussion about vacuum itself but about the exclusivity of the mod having deleterious effects on the game. 

[4.] Do I really need to show you the math again? A 3 meter vacuum is just pitiful relative to the range of movement afforded by the parkour system. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

2 minutes ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

I have been listening. Additionally I can prove you havent been. Lets not go there and keep moving forward. 

I clearly stated 2 rounds, as in 10 waves on whatever type of endless mission at hand (this is a very common term in usage through out the player base). Which excludes all the other mission types by default.

So if you are already in a mission for 10 minutes, and the rotation for charms proc is 9.5 minutes, there is no expectation for people to wait around is there?

The result being you get an automatic planetary rare, for free, no effort and you double your loot, again for free no effort. Double for nothing is pretty efficient isnt it? (second time Ive asked this.)

This means you do not have to "dont have to stop at every corner to pick up every scrap of dust off the floor and break every single crate on the way". 

If pets are so unpopluar, why am I selling more lotus prints since PoE launched. Its almost as if a surge in the player base has taken an interest in companions! Weird. BTW. I just sold another lotus (sahasa) while typing this. 250 plat for each print ! With an order for for a sunika and chesa, the player Im talking to wants all his kubrows with lotus prints. 

Im not forbidding anything, I dont work for DE and cant make changes to the game. Sorry. I can voice my opinion and well thought out objections, even in spite of you choosing to ignore them. At least I can elaborate on my points and be honest with my goals. 

You cant even say what you really want, which is resource doubling and  a vacuum. You complain about warframes being over powered, ignore how potent companions are and insist that this combination is harmless. It is not. 

Mirage with the simulor was pretty popular, so was the Telos Boltace and the Tonkor. All weapons that were abused by the player base to the point DE had to step in and radically in some cases change them all. Players want to cheese the game, and this combination will lead to cheesing and inevitably nerf the companions. Which I have said before, and will happily say again. The resource doubling on Smeeta is a mechanic that can and will be abused. Surely you must be able to see this conclusion?

 

No S#&$? It doesn't mean that companions themselves are any more popular, just that there are more consumers to buy prints. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

I swear it's like arguing for universal healthcare at this point. You present people with a reasonable change that can only benefit them and they rally against it because it doesn't feel good to them for some inexplicable reason.

I've yet to see an actual argument – that didn't simply resort to calling supporters lazy – as to why this would be ill-advised. I've already made my case dozens of times in this thread.  

9 minutes ago, Altre said:

I'm thinking we also need a constant 3x speed boost to all frames. I mean, having to live with the tedium of running through a map just ruins the flow of the game. I also hate getting killed. Ruins the flow of the game.

Anyone opposed to just starting a mission and instantly getting the mission complete screen with all potential loot already acquired and all items maxed out with 6x forma for our convenience?

This is not what the game used to be about. It didn't used to be able convenience, it used to be a struggle (at least it was early on). Utility was just that. It's not essential. People claiming that everyone would really prefer to have a larger universal vacuum should stop making statements for a group they don't understand. I do feel that vacuum as a mod needs to be dealt with. I wouldn't be opposed to pets/companions getting a utility slot, similar to Exilus slots. Kubrow and Kavat at least deserve a reduced item pick up ability. Rushing to get loot IS exciting to people. It used to be a part of games. Mission start, combat, loot, next objective, repeat as needed. I always wanted a small vacuum like we have now, due to the odd ejection of loot sometimes removing it from physical grasp in silly places (darn, my frame can't squeeze between that gap on his belly to grab those mutagen samples...). If loot ruins the flow of the game, why argue to let it drop in the first place? Why not just have it placed in a repository shown at the end of the mission?

The reason it wouldn't be a good idea to have a toggleable option for universal vacuum is because looting is an integral part of the game, like health and energy are or like movement speed. There's no convenience option to modify those outside of using mods or items. I used to hate slow frames because everyone else could speed through missions, while I was left in the dust due to low movement speed. I couldn't understand why they would have slower frames. Then I played defence and survival missions and found that i could stay alive while other frames had a hard time (this was before our current energy economy and frames like Valkyr). Choosing to use carrier was just another option for gameplay to me and a lot of advanced players I had seen didn't use him because he didn't offer many combat benefits. I liked the stealth given by Shade or sometimes the infrequent cc aid of Wrym. Dethcube was fun for lower level missions. When pets came out, I thought they were useless until I actually used them. Different uses, I felt no marginal difference between using them and Sentinels. Missions didn't turn out radically different due to use of one or the other, they just aided in slightly different ways.

Anyways, my point is that manual looting has always been a part of the game. This is not an essential convenience. It's a utility.

If that is your point, then you must absolutely detest patch day. Did you rally against loadouts as well? 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

2 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Again, I have yet to see a sentinel kill a level 80 juggernaut in one hit. Sentinels are ok, but they only provide trivial bonuses. Carrier is great for running weapons with poor ammo economy, and the Diriga is great for a bit of CC, but largely the other sentinels are incredibly redundant or outright useless. As far as sentinel guns go, the only really worthwhile ones are the Vulklok sniper, for decent range, and the Sweeper/Prime shotugn, for decent AoE status proccing. Almost all the people I know can't stand the sentinel guns, and the few that ever consider using them are constantly complaining to the rest of us about mod conflicts. 

Kubrows and Kavats on the other hand, are not just survivable, but much higher damage, and overall have more helpful abilities. Sahasa gets you amazing finisher attacks (the sort that kill heavy units at high level with complete ease) as well as frequent loot drops (normally including numerous energy orbs in one spot). Sunika gets you the same finisher attack. Huras stealth is more than twice the range of the Shade sentinel. Raksa gets a really good AoE fear, as well as shield restore. Ardaza Kavats get to add 60% bonus crit chance as an additive value to all attacks, which is outright godly on so many weapons, scaling crits up entire tiers, and this functions in an AoE. Smeeta kavats can outright boost all crits to orange tier, or can double your loot, and a whole bunch of stuff.

All of this is whilst being incredibly tanky, revivable, doing solid damage that scales quite well into late game, and being able to be rapidly healed with a few melee hits.

Saying Pets aren't better than sentinels in "any way shape or form" is a poorly misinformed statement. Look, you don't like using them, that's fine. But, you can't ignore the areas where they demonstrably excel over Sentinels. I don't like Sentinels, but I don't try to pretend that nobody uses them, or that they're somehow inferior in literally every way, because they aren't. They're simply less combat-focused, and more tactical and QoL focused.

If Kubrows and Kavats got a universal vacuum, or if it was applied without need for companions, I don't really think Sentinels would be used much at all. The only thing that really holds people back is the fact that they don't want to have to freeze/thaw their pets to prevent damage, but that's not even much of an issue at all.

Of course not, looting is not a skill based mechanic. It's an effort based mechanic. If you're doing some crazy farming scheme where you sit still and never do anything but spam, you don't deserve your loot. If you're actively moving around and killing, you're picking up your loot as you go already. 

I know Warframe already has arcade-like elements, but that doesn't mean it deserves to become more so. If you're going to argue for a universal vacuum, then you might as well just argue for loot to be automatically acquired (except for energy/ammo/health).

I really don't think that looting without a sentinel is difficult in any way, and we've already been handed a 3m vacuum for warframes, so you don't even need to hit the precise hitbox to loot stuff. I think if you're spending that much time focusing on loot and grinding, you aren't even playing the game to enjoy it regardless. That's why I play missions by trialling new builds, tactics or team compositions. We get whatever resources we need while we practice, and we get a lot more enjoyment out of it than some people seem to be having.

I get why people want Universal Vacuum. I get why you're arguing for it. It wouldn't be a deal-breaker if we had it, but it's something I would prefer to not have, and I'm voicing my opinion on this thread so that it's understood that not everyone is all for it. If the vocal forum members got everything they wanted without people speaking out against it, the game would be utterly horrible. This isn't as big of an issue, but it's still just something I feel I should state my piece on.

Please try to be more considerate, since everyone's opinion is their own, and try to refrain from such strong hyperbole. It's not very constructive, and isn't likely to change anyone's mind the way rational conversation will. 

Utility > Damage when our frames are more than capable of trivializing all relevant content. At the point where the extra damage would start to matter, the dogs and cats would be getting oneshot by level 250s after their boneheaded AI gets them stuck on a door. Outside of the Huras' amazing cloak and the Smeeta's rare double loot roll, they're feel good companions that don't add nearly as much relevant value as the numbers might lead you to believe. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

1 hour ago, SpinnningSideKick said:

What are you spending plat on breeding for? You really dont need too. The only time I spend plat on breeding kubrows is if I have a buyer for a lotus print that wants it now, and already agreed to my asking price plus the cost of rushing incubation. Otherwise I just put it in the oven and wait the day out doing something else. 

It would be nice if we got lotus prints on kavats though, might revitalise the companion trade! 

I think the thing we really need more than a vacuum for companions is some more mods for companions to improve their utility a little (like a mod that copies Oberons old passive, and turns ferals against your opponents!). But beyond vacuum I cant think of anything other than stuff sentinels already do, and we have sentinels for that. Its a trade off, and one that is seen throughout warframe in nearly every other aspect of the game. Something is always traded off, crits for status, speed for damage and so on. 

Im arguing against it so that DE is never forced to look at companions with vacuum and say "those are way too effective, nerf time." They would be, just like Mirage and the synoid all over again. Something too effective that changes the meta of the game too a degree that it would require a nerf. We shouldnt grow weeds just so we have something to pull later, is the mindset DE has. 

Of course, but if you're really active on the market then the loss of efficiency is more than made up for with sheer transaction volume. The hope is that if you give more people a reason to use them, then there will actually be more of a market as well. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

It's as if the people arguing against it dont understand that we already have it.

We're not really arguing for vacuum, we just want an environment where other companions don't come with the awful downside of losing access to the best single mod in the game.

edit: I just want one good reason to shovelback into breeding because right now it's a lot of tedium and expense without as much utility as you would expect.

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

2 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

1. Much like the Rhino Skin trap for Knockdown and Status Immunity, Sentinel is a Vacuum trap. That's the price you pay, you have to choose a Sentinel over a Companion. People have been pointing this out repeatedly and that is why they don't see Vacuum as a necessity. There was a point in time where everyone was using Rhino Prime for Iron Skin. Giving Knockdown, Status resistance and Invincibility to everyone else was not the solution.

2. Majority of forum doesn't mean majority of game. Just because it has no downsides doesn't mean it should be implemented either. Goes back to as you said, "core gameplay loop". Repeatedly bullet jumping down the middle of the corridor to loot everything might not be a core gameplay loop that DE is aiming for.

3. So why is universal Vacuum constantly being pushed by a select group of people? That group immediately associate the statistical difference entirely to "No one uses Companions because I don't use Companions for Vacuum."

4. It doesn't need to be implemented, so why try so hard to insist it's necessary?

5.

If anything, you're probably the one most invested in it.

This is really quite pointless if people don't realize that they've been sucked into the trap that is Vacuum. 

Yeah, the trap of logic. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

42 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Once again, you've completely missed the point. The reason why it is pampering is because the current advantage is being weighted [1.] against the negative of being forced to use a Sentinel as well as keeping it alive. The call for universal Vacuum is like asking for a 10% damage buff on all Focus trees because Marudai has 25% or whichever equivalent of your choosing based off popular choices.. The choices you make are supposed to come with missing out on what you didn't choose.

[2.] Vacuum is as valuable as how you see it to be and is entirely subjective. Your concept of efficiency is not shared with everyone, neither is your sense of value. I see the Adarza Kavat to be significantly more valuable than Vacuum, does it mean I am objectively wrong? Even if you have bring up numbers of how much more resources you pick up against someone without a Sentinel, the grounds of the comparison might be very different. You're undermining your case. Some people see that moving to pick up ammo and resources as part of the core gameplay.

And once again, the Sentinel vs Companion statistics does not really prove anything except that there needs to be a change. [3.] However, the solution does not have to revolve around Vacuum. If you had a poll of a large group of Sentinel users ranging from the people who frequent the forums to those who play the game in silence and it turns out that a majority of people are not using Companions due to their unreliability and constant maintenance, Vacuum would do little to solve the issue. [4.] Yes it will help some groups, but just because it caters to a group doesn't mean that it needs to be implemented.

I'm not against a proper discussion of where does Quality of Life go to far in regards to item pickups. Personally, I don't see this must or die dilemma that the game just immediately becomes impossible to play the moment your Sentinel dies. [5.] What irks me, is this dishonesty of trying to push an opinion based off your own decision as a magical, objective solution as well as the attempts to pin everyone on the other side as an old fart who wants every game to be Pac-man.

[1.] What negative? What relevant content exists where Sentinel management is actually a serious consideration? If there is no content that requires that pause to consider, then there isn't actually a real choice to be made beyond the aesthetic. 

[2.] Of course, but as far as I can see my opinion and perception aligns with that of the majority of the forum base. Popularity certainly isn't reason enough for a change, but there are no perceivable downsides for those who simply aren't concerned with efficiency and there is even potential financial upside for DE. 

[3.] Well, if there ever is to be a companion rework, then Vacuum must necessarily be in consideration for tweaking. It's not really a question given it's relative power. 

[4.] Of course it doesn't need to be implemented, it's a QoL feature. Loadouts didn't need to be implemented either for that matter but you certainly didn't see many people rallying against the concept on that basis. 

[5.] I think I've explained my view of the game in enough detail that such an accusation seems a bit ridiculous. It's honestly a bit strange that people are so invested in maintaining this particular aspect of the game when it was designed with a completely different movement dynamic in mind. 

[[Discussion] To combat resource inflation, should there be a cap on resources stored?]

20 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

The best answer to address huge resource stockpiles is to introduce desirable consumables with varied resource demands.  Every pad takes nano spores, and they shift between circuits and polymer on top of that.  Depending on how often One runs missions in regions with spores, One may or may not be swimming in spores.  I know I only have 100,000k spores, some have millions (they probably don't craft pads often.)  I actually RAN OUT of polymer and circuits because I was so heavily relying on pads for my healing.  Others may have millions of these too.

But likewise, there's no guarantee people will ever spend their resources to any notable degree.  Because I tended to eat more nanospores, polymer, and circuits due to my pad abuse, I was forced to look for alternative methods that didn't demand these resources.  I don't have life strike for healing, so I settled for the Hirudo for now, which has built in life leech capability.  As long as I use that, I probably won't need to make another healing pad for a while.

The truth is that for the most part, stockpiling is inevitable, especially without us constantly building something with those resources.  DE can't keep pumping out content fast enough to eat everything we earn, so they have to constantly shoe horn in some new resources to keep us from just ramming through everything with our storage vaults.  It's why Nitain, Argon, and to a lesser degree Tellurium and Forma are frequently utilized in the construction of equipment, because they are the most limited resources in the game.

Bingo. Riot just did this with their Runes update.

[[Discussion] To combat resource inflation, should there be a cap on resources stored?]

I myself wouldn't be averse to caps, but I think that the window for such a change has long passed. 

Implementing them now would probably crash the forums. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

18 minutes ago, Flandyrll said:

Would it be reasonable to say that every game that has an item pick up range of less than 5m is a bad game by design? Any shooter game that has you walk up and hold a button to pick up items is immediately bad because they make the players go through so much work to pick up items. Simply claiming that, "Warframe is about loot" does not prove any point. "Warframe is about shooting" does not mean that we should be given an unlimited stock of ammo to be able to use a gun throughout the game.

The rationale is quite simple. There is a distinction between useful quality of life and pampering players. Quality of life has to be measured to a sensible degree which is entirely subjective and ultimately, falls to the developers to decide when a function goes from useful to pandering. Once again, it goes back to my very simple point that you dodged by coming up with assumptions to suit your point.

If I deem that item drops are entirely unnecessary and a huge hassle as an entire mechanic and instead, the moment you make a kill, that rare mod should just immediately flash up on the screen much like Survival rewards being credited every 5 minutes. I decided that this is quality of life that I want, I find 100 people to prove my point, I point to the statistics of Sentinel use with no regard to the reason, why would you see a need to  disagree? After all, it's all about convenience and quality of life right? This makes it better for everyone since now, we don't even need to move close to ammo, energy or resources and it solves the problem of items falling into inaccessible areas.

As a lot of people have said, if you see Vacuum as such a necessity, it's your decision to use Sentinels. Being stuck with Sentinels is the price you pay, much like if I want to use explosive weapons, bombing myself to death at close range is the price I pay. Consider this, if Companions are so greatly improved to a point their value, directly or indirectly, is almost equivalent to a reliable player, would you toss aside Sentinels and Vacuum for it? If it still comes back to, "I still think Vacuum is more valuable", don't use Companions as an excuse for why you're using a Sentinel.

How can it be pampering when the feature is already there? 

The entire point is that we understand that vacuum is a horridly powerful mod that, intentionally or not, pushes other companions out of realistic use if you are aiming to be efficient with your playtime.

[...]

In regards to the bolded, I don't wish to see DE take such a measure because I'd argue that the interplay between an item physically dropping and being picked up is better for reinforcing the core gameplay loops. I think it would hurt player attachment rate and would thus do harm to DE to make such a change which is something that I do not wish to see. 

In regards to the uni-vac proposition, there is some reason to believe that it would actually benefit DE given that Kubrows and their breeding, upkeep and cosmetics are rather more expensive than sentinels. At the very least it would be a completely neutral decision that would only shift companion choice given that most players already utilize sentinels and vacuum almost exclusively. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

1 minute ago, Hypernaut1 said:

So ummm, just use a sentinel? Existential crisis averted.

You act as if they are going to remove vacuum completely. They're not. You're safe.

But I want to be able to use a Kubrow without feeling like I'm intentionally nerfing my gameplay. 

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

I'm still not sure that I understand the rationale against uni-vac.

I see a lot of people claiming that those who want it are just lazy which is really strange because you can take any feature of this game and apply that argument. Would it be reasonable for me to say that anyone who uses loadouts is just lazy and doesn't really care enough about tech'ing for specific missions?

[Can Universal Vacuum just happen already?]

1 hour ago, JuicyButthurt said:

If you aren't moving forward, you are falling behind, why waste the resources now while you could need them in the future? Why fight the completionist instinct and leave all the loot around? It's not like it's completely free either, I'd like to remind you that back in the good old days people used specific builds to get rid of all the ammo lying around during longer games as it would ultimately grind the game to a halt.

 

This whole game is a damn looter-shooter.

There also is the issue of having to clean up after yourself and up to 7 other people in the party, it's perfectly manageable to work through the game solo without Vacuum with loot pickups being hardly a nuisance, but with 3 other people making a mess all over the place? Far less so.

You said it about as well as I could have.

I'm not going to change my playstyle a few thousand hours in just because I'm not particularly strapped for resources at the moment. A lot of the appeal for these sorts of games comes from the endless accumulation of items/wealth/etc. and vacuum facilitates that like no other mod in the game can. As long as it remains an exclusive element of sentinels, then I'll have no compelling reason to work other companions into my regular play. I'm not going to do it just because I can afford to much in the same way that I don't spam energy pads just because I have 700 and the resources to build 1000s more.