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About Kaizal

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  1. Honestly, how useless can a post get, I sentence telling you to hey "do so at your own risk". And then a bunch of excuses, "gray" areas, come on, like anyone here buys that this is something other than just a pretext for allowing the developers themselves, to not hold themselves to any standards whatsoever, because its a "case to case basis". Trials are also case to case bases, but they act in accordance to something called law, here you just act in accordance with your own subjectivity. Many games have taken stances on macros and many other third party software, its not as complicated as its made out to be, nor it wont have a negative repercussion as its made out to be.
  2. I don't see how my playtime is relevant to the discussion, I have around 760 hours on the game and been player for around 2 years or so, I'm not a "long time player" by Warframe definition probably but I have been around for some time. I do not base my opinions off of the loudest voices in the room, when the partner first uploaded his video I was totally against it (I had been posting in this thread before he uploaded), I get the point that we were being ignored, and that it caused frustration, I still don't think going for the individual is justifiable, I think you should go for the companies mistakes. and I commented so in YouTube. Also just commenting on that point, I applaud DEs long term paradigm of not publicly executing (its a metaphor for those who will wanna be to literal) their employees or associates in order to gain more approval. Now how am I supposed to react, when his video instantly gets action taken from DE (you could argue that what DE said is true, and that the timing was a mere coincidence, but the actions clearly suggest otherwise). When there were tons of posts very old about the same topic he covered in the video(going years back), only that those posts rarely see the light of day. You comment, and its true, that there is times when DE reacts almost instantly to feedback. I should have made a distinction. Were I see those fast changes you talk about, is for example on things that are easily actionable and is already in development, like when the community said about the orbs, pls no more knockdowns, DE answered with other orbs with less knockdowns. Its true they have their merits and I failed to recognize them. Also some other times, there is community uproar and they only half way do something(after a lot of time of ignoring), as with universal Vacuum. And when is reworks or stuff of that nature they take ages, because it means postponing schedule, releasing content more slowly, and that really hurts a game like Warframe, I get all of that. Now its also been shown by DE that when they get a big PR problem they tend to work a lot quicker, instant response guaranteed level of quicker. So how am I not being incentivized to look to make that uproar happen when issues of this nature(the completely ignored nature), arise, how am I supposed to keep being reasonable, when actually making them look bad is what really works. Especially on matters such as this that relate directly with how they handle themselves indoors, it seems to be the only way to get them to take action, and even them without admitting they #*!%ed up, their pride is costing them money that they have otherwise not reason to lose On the Nezha thing, I truly don't have an opinion, I do not know personally any trans person IRL, all I keep seeing on the internet is people that talk in behalf of these minorities, now if these minorities truly want the Nezha meme to be banned of existence, I do not have a problem with that(as long as a warning system of some sort is implemented), that doesn't impact the player ability to play(suspending of recruit chat), on the first offence, mostly because people can be ignorant on the topic and I don't think everyone should know everything. I do not recall ever saying the Nezha meme, and if I said it and it offended anyone(anyone transgender for that matter, not all the whiny people out there), I do apologize, it wasn't my intention. Now if you're gonna ban the Nezha meme, ban the meme not the words "trap" + "[any warframe here]", that is ridiculous, and there are plenty of examples of when this backfired. Also when I was talking about the Nezha meme on that part anyways, but just to clarify, nor you specifically, more the general you, like anyone who reads this "you". I do not hold DE in a pedestal, but there is no denying that their image plays an important part of their income, on some important issues, ignoring the community until it hits the wallet, is the absolute opposite of what they are portrayed in the media to be, "the fairest F2P" vs "I ignore you until you stop giving me money", is something that if DE doesn't work on, its eventually gonna have problems with, if not already.
  3. DE can improve the system (and I hope they will). --> That's about all you can do now, since they haven't replied to this thread in so long. They've taken some steps toward improving it. --> So far those steps you're talking about, I've only seen one, which is the original post from Rebecca on this thread. DE has also shut down the previous Guides program. --> Just after a partner made a video about how it should be removed. Now its interesting to notice how they said the video had personal attacks (which I think it had a fair share of them), but it also had very valid points that more than mentioning them, it did the job of making the issue so much more public thanks to his viewer base. So far DE handles themselves the following way, 1- players give feedback, 2-DE ignores feedback, 3-players get mad about DE ignoring feedback, get mad at DE, the whole situation starts getting more heated. 4-DE keeps ignoring feedback 5-Big youtuber or personality makes a video about it. 5- DE takes action, the amount of action seems to be directly proportional to the amount of said personality viewer base. My personal theory is that they ignore everything unless it starts hitting on their wallet, which is pretty sad considering one of the main reasons I started playing Warframe was because I heard of how fair a F2P it was. Continuing with this thread wont do anything in my opinion, the only thing that will do something, is don't give money to DE, get other Warframe players to be pissed about the issue, so in consequence they start hitting on DEs wallet until they fix it. Then rince and repeat with all issues thay may come in Warframe's way. Its sad but that seems to be the only way DE stops burying their head in the sand. Now all this perception I and many others have of DE could be easily flipped if they show a change in attitude, ONE message discussing new systems being implemented, how are those gonna be, keep players informed and make player know you are making progress. Then actively engage on the conversation. Most people in this post seem to be really patient, some are just defending DEs stupid measures for reasons I cant even begin to understand. DE you as a company are lucky to have such tolerant and patient players, you have as one of your chat rules to "be respectful", how is ignoring the players that enjoy and take time out of their day to tell you how to make the game better is "being respectful". Now I've seen some people playing the power card so many times, "its DEs game so if they don't want to do anything about their chat, bad luck to you, its DEs rules and they can do whatever they want". True they can do whatever they want, but the direct impact of what they do goes into their wallets, and having a pissed player base just gives people the perfect reason to not give a penny to DE. Especially when DE lives off of the image of being one of the fairest F2P out there. Also if you are for that argument, you most likely are not having an impact, and if you do that will be people not supporting the game you like to play, so you're effectively shooting yourself in the foot because you cant stop being DEfensive.
  4. Pretty sure it scales up to a week(not like DE is transparent on this, so no way to know for sure).
  5. They have two options now, one is to just improve Kickbot by making it more permissive, being more transparent on various things that people have already mentioned: why the punishment, duration, and as much information about it as possible. Now this has the obvious disadvantage that its more permissive towards trolls. The other is to make it so the chat regulations and more report and flagging oriented, Kickbot flags, players report, and moderators decide the punishment, now this obviously requires more monetary investment, but its either that or keep a broken region chat. Also you can do a combination of both, literally someone took the time like 100 posts ago to compile really good and structured suggestions and its bugging me that didn't get a reply from DE.
  6. Actually not even this, Reb posted some useless info with 0 detail, and someone said "pls make it more obscure because trolls", and she replied she would be more obscure, I mean, What? Literally being obscure it the last thing we need right now, from no response, to obscure response, is hardly an evolution. Also I don't remember who atm, but someone several pages ago made a very big and though out list of possible improvements for kickbot, Seriously no replies for that post, I mean if you want constructive criticism that's as good as you are going to get.
  7. Id like to point out that my thread got merged with this one, so its not like someone its not reading at least the titles, what bothers me is that they haven't taken 2 seconds to even say "we are working on it", or "we like it as it is now" in which case I would keep posting on the issue till eternity, or "we have been doing this so far, what do you people think about it". Its really mind boggling that this has to be a recommendation people actually do. It would be nice to have at least confirmation that this is being read at all.
  8. That's some of the ridiculousness that I want out of the chat moderation system, that's why i'm writing a S#&$ton of posts basically defending my position. I had already seen tons of cases like yours if not suffered them myself, so this is no news to me, and I don't think just turning off region chat is the solution.
  9. First of all thx for addressing the obvious fallacy, it was getting tiring seeing it being repeated to so much. But what you said there pretty much sums up my whole tesis on what should be done. At the moment any changes, adjustments, etc. Are only seen and modified by DE, atm by recent changes on moderation system, it seems like DE has good intentions, but DE is a company, not a beacon of goodness and respect, meaning it can and will change, the more regulations we have to make them keep themselves in check, the more likely they keep being in this road of improvement.
  10. Correct, DE decides what is and is not respectful. --> Even more DE decides what regulations to put in place or not, the ridiculousness of those, and how vague and subjective the word "respectful" is one of the reasons im currently typing, if I didn't believe in DEs authority, id simply try to force them to do something, which i'm not, i'm trying to have a reasonable conversation. If we act nicely to each other, we should be fine. --> We come back to the same, this is clearly not the case, and "should" Is as much as statement as you can make with DEs current regulations, you(ironically enough) should be able to say "will". They tend to use the norms of the society around them, however, so we're in luck. --> "Tend" I don't wanna depend on tendencies, I want to depend on real regulations, this are harder to twist. "luck"--> I don't want to depend on luck, because is unreliable. "society around them" --> I don't know if you are referring to Canada, America as a whole continent, some part of the globe? "use the norms" --> Vague norms are one of the things a totalitarian government puts in place, to have easier control over the population. The clearer your norms are, the harder it is for you to do whatever the heck you want, without any consequences. I'm not gonna address the rest of your comment cuz that would me continuing an off-topic discussion, which i'm happy to do over discord(and you screenshotting my chat if you think you got me or something). "Yes, I saw your example, and yes, it's problematic from the start. It's way to complicated to parse it all out here and now and would go off topic way too quickly." --> I can list many more that don't have the issue of us going over DE name usage regulations, and that are still really unfair. But it just seems like a waste of time since you can probably do it with one google search.
  11. I'm not gonna point out every single logical fallacy(for lack of time, and suspicion that you don't have any intent of having a real conversation), but this is too obvious to miss. Lets recap a little bit, I recall saying that there are exceptions to context matter, this would be words that or offense by themselves. Now for all the other rest of the words, I stated that i'm not ok with Kickbot just simply disregarding context, which to this you answer that since not every one of this cases is doled out by kickbot, I should "try again", the fact that some are addressed by kickbot is already a major concern to me. and I still don't find where my reasoning failed.
  12. Exactly, profanity shouldn't be allowed regardless of context, you provided an example of something that is not profanity by itself, or at least not in my book, the thing that even if proven that the whole Nezha thing is not profanity, there are many words in their list that we don't even know about, the whole point of this is that DE need to bring clarity to their regulations, i'm on the topic of chat now, but this easily extends to other aspects. Only some of the partner requirements are objective at all, which means DE can simply reject a partner request without giving any objective reason, because that's not how their criteria is built, same with chat, since their criteria is pure BS or "hidden", which also being hidden means it can easily be manipulated on a case to case bases(even if that's not my biggest issue with the system, because from what I see online lots of people are getting badly treated from this mysterious regulations). ALSO WHY THAT #*!%ING FIXATION WITH MY EXAMPLE, if you want, label me as a racist for all I care I know i'm not one. I already explained why I used it, so I see no point in explaining myself again.
  13. If you treat others with respect, then you'll be fine. --> yeah if there weren't for the large amount of cases of people getting suspended cuz the kickbot cant recognize context, ive literally seen people getting suspended for addressing someone as "f4g" when that was literally their in-game name. You might say this is rare, but if you go online and do some research you'll quickly find otherwise. Do I have to come back to the same every time? "Being respectful" is not something objective at all. You have to clarify what is respectful for you if you want it to be a rule, have you seen any laws saying "be nice to people", because in my experience they are a lot more objective on what you can and cant say. Then what happens when your criteria its not objective? Well basically the ones at the top get to decide what is "respectful" or not the way the see fit on a case to case bases, which is unfair by nature, the more objective a regulation is, the less likely you'll unfairly treat someone. If you can't take an insult without lashing out or immediately getting angry, or resentful or bitter, or unable to continue racional conversation, that's pretty immature in my book. You can also simply politely cut discourse with the other side of the conversation, that's also pretty mature if you ask me. Hell how you respond to any kind of violence in general is directly linked with how mature you are. But ill not continue now since this isn't the main topic being discusses. It's not a fear based system. --> Then why are so many people disabling region chat for getting suspended while given no justification at all(or very vague ones that mean nothing such as "be respectful"). If DE had real public regulations, this people could stand up for themselves when improperly accussed of being hurtful or something like that, the way its all shady now, limits the conversation to: Random person(maybe unfairly treated, maybe not): DE this was the context of the conversation X, where I said the word Y, clearly because of context X, Y wasn't used in a "disrespectful manner" DE: We define what is respectful the way we see fit, and we wont tell you what that way is at all, so just stay quiet and accept your punishment Clear misrepresentation to prove a point, DE would be much more polite, but provide as little information as I characterized. Being Respectful is not a stupid criteria, but that only applies for interpersonal relationships, when you try to take that into the context ofa regulation it becomes really sloppy.
  14. LMAO, that link, OMG i'm dying of laughter, i'm well aware by now that using the N-word as an example wasn't the wisest thing to do, since it got many people into the mindset of "he just wants to be able in region chat" and therefore cant have a reasonable conversation with me because they just thing im a racist trying to get away with it, wich is not true at all, but my phrasing could be better.Now i'm not editing the first post, because I believe warframe players and forum posters can do better than just a simplistic reasoning. Now i'd like to point out that I barely started doing forum posts just yesterday, have never done them before, and as you say, I wouldn't even bother to post if I didn't think DE are amazing developer who have done an amazing job at Warframe, making a great game with an even better monetization system, I applaud all that. The reason I'm here posting, is because first of all, because I know the devs to be amazing, there Is a chance this wont fall on deaf ears. Thanks for considering my suggestions interesting, I don't have an idea on how good, viable, etc they can be, I just put them there as an idea for DE to have as reference for what I would like to be done. Another alternative would have been pointing out what I don't like and give no suggestions, wich I think is useful to do aswell, but a bit of guidance and suggestions that they may or may not take into consideration never hurt anybody. Now the strawmanning, god its so irritating, I wandered whether or not to answer to the strawmanning, and I did, but will no longer do, because I think its an insult to the people that ACUTALLY read what I posted and thought about it for more than 2 seconds with a genuine interest in understanding my position, so from now on ill only answer to people that criticize or agree my arguments, not the ones they think i'm trying to say.
  15. That is one of the first principles that makes part of any legislative system, basically ignorance of the regulation, doesn't exempt you from getting the punishment, except in those cases you have access to what this laws are, they don't just vagely say, "behave apropiattely. Taking context into account would be a nice start. Not exactly list of words forbidden, but having a list of words forbidden is basically a regulation, wich DE so far, has no problem making their regulations public, not on the forums at least, if you get your post deleted, you get to know why that happened. What about if they banned your in-game account? you still wouldn't care, sorry but I don't buy it, I don't buy that someone would make an account on the forums, which is a platform that is all about giving constructive criticism, if they didn't thought they didn't at least have a chance to make a difference, and wont care if they get silenced unfairly, I just don't believe it. And if that is the case why are you even bothering to answer to me? Why do you waste your time on something you consider unimportant?
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