Aglethe
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Posts posted by Aglethe
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On 4/6/2017 at 7:55 PM, Talonflight said:
Covert Lethality is nice, but it also makes daggers virtually useless in open combat once they've all been alerted, unless you've got a frame like Inaros or a tele-Ash, etc. Dual daggers are supposed to be better than single daggers at open combat, thats why I didn't want to simply make Covert Lethality 2.0
On 4/6/2017 at 8:48 PM, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:Daggers are only as bad as you make them. Covert Lethality isn't the only thing to put on them. While yes, they could use a buff to some stats to make them unique, they can still do a fair amount of DPS. Same with Machete type weapons. The only reason they suck is because the stance is trash and their stats are bottom of the barrel.
Covert Lethality also has a raw +100 base damage on it in addition to the auto kill finishers, so it's a pretty effective mod for both combat and finishers. They're actually not that bad for fighting with really. They have two good stances and while they might not be up there with the Dual Ichors, Galatine P, or a slide attack Atterax, both the Karyst and the Sheev have reasonably good stats. A nice Karyst Prime or Sheev Wraith could potentially put them toward the top tier, or at least as much as they can be given their limited reach.
The funny thing is, as bad of a state as machetes are in, with the Gazal they're probably still better off than dual daggers (at least against higher level armoured enemies). Dual daggers do have the better stances between the two, but there aren't any clear crit or status weapons amongst them. Wheras the Gazal is an ok slash dominant crit status hybrid with a lousy stance.
Well, it's a easier to release a new weapon (or buff an old one) than a new stance, so I'd imagine the worm will turn on that at some point. But still, it's kind of amusing that for at least once in their lives machetes aren't the worst weapon type. ;)
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14 hours ago, mikami666134 said:
2.Holy shenanigans. I never knew that it was multiplicative. But yet, it still loses in terms of damage. The bleed chance at 3x is 47% as opposed to a slash+viral's 78%. Even looking at the bleed alone, adding viral dual stat is better. In addition, with both pure slash or slash + viral, i don't think you'd kill a high leveled armored enemy with a short time (unless you get multiple redheads), which make the viral proc reliable nonetheless.
Hell, I'd agree with you if you can get to 5x multiplier on that thing. And on lower leveled enemies (about 60-80 i think?) I think it could also win out, but even then, your everyday crit build is better.
So let's look at how much at how much benefit each approach provides. In the first place I think we can all agree that Blood Rush, Body Count, Berserker, Weeping Wounds, Organ Shatter and PPP are strong enough so as to be mandatory mods for the builds in question. So that leaves us comparing Virulent Scourge and Voltaic Strike vs some combination of True Steel, PF, and PReach.
So let's just look at the combination that we can more easily apply some math(s) to for now. The value of True Steel varies depending on the weapon and the combo multiplier but it tends to fall in the 50-60% range for the weapons and multipliers we care about, so for the sake of the example (and because I've got the flu and a migrane -_-) let's simplify it to 60% from True Steel and 50% from PF. In that case applying True Steel would bring us to 160% and then adding PF would bring that up to 240% or in other words we're seeing 140 some percent gains from that combination.
The Virulent+Voltaic combination is a bit more complicated in terms of what it's doing. Since we're looking at highly armoured enemies we'll set aside the 120% viral damage, though it's still some non-zero number.
In terms of status chance, if we assume a 3x combo multiplier, we're looking at roughly (Galatine P numbers are slightly inflated since they assume 95% slash, but it's really a hair less than that) 42.3% slash proc chance with the NikanaP, 44.65% with the GalatineP, and 47% for the Prima Dual Cleavers for the pure slash build. With the hybrid viral/slash build we get: 69.3% NikanaP, 73.15% GalatineP, 61.6% PDC. So we're seeing bleed status chance gains of ~63.8% for the NikanaP/GalatineP and ~31% for PDC. It's worth noting though that the viral+slash hybrid is already capped out, so those gains will fall as the combo multiplier rises (for the sake of curiousity I ran the bleed proc chance numbers for a 5x multiplier and at that point the hybrid build gains are -5.3% for the PDC (pure slash build has a higher chance) and +18.4% for the Galatine and Nikana Primes).
As far as the benefit of the viral proc itself goes, again, it's complicated. It only doubles the damage for damage recieved after the proc is applied. So it's only a 100% damage increase if we apply it on the first hit, which with a ~23% proc chance isn't too likely. So it's hard to estimate how much benefit we're actually getting here. As enemy levels go up it will get closer and closer to that ideal value, but at the same time the combo multiplier will also rise and reduce the status chance benefit of the hybrid build.
For example, if we went back to those 5x numbers and assumed a 100% benefit from the viral proc we get around ~189.4% for the viral on the PDC vs ~240% for the pure slash, and ~236.8% vs ~240% for the GalatineP and NikanaP. If we instead look at the 3x multiplier, in order to match the pure slash build we would have to apply a viral proc on average by the time the enemy was at the ~83.2% health mark with the PDC or by about 46.5% health for the GalatineP and NikanaP (I think I may be doing something wrong here, but I can't tell for sure in my presently addled state :/).
We would need somebody with a damage sim that can accurately account for stances, status, ground finishers and whatnot to determine if we're actually reliably hitting the thresholds necessary for a viral build to come out ahead. But I'll go out on a limb and say that for the Prisma Dual Cleavers at least, in most cases you're probably better off with a pure slash build. And Primed Reach in general is just much harder to compare, but when conditions are favourable for it, it makes an even harder target for the viral build to meet.
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I don't disagree that a new stance would be nice, and the current quick attacks need a rework even if we do get a new stance, but "garbage" is perhaps a bit excessive:
SpoilerIn general yeah, the combos on Sundering Weave are pretty clunky, but it does have at least one okish one in the hold RMB combo (Flash Flood I believe ?). And most of the time we're just spamming one combo over and over anyway. If you can live with just the one combo and the lousy (both from an animation perspective and from a damage dealing one it would seem) quick attacks, the Gazal is already a fairly capable sortie level weapon if it's something you're wanting to use. It's not top tier by any means, but from what I've seen over the last couple days' sorties, it doesn't struggle the way the Nami Solo does.
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3 hours ago, Trollhunter said:
From personal experience, testing, and info on the wiki and builder this is untrue.
I thought they stacked additively for the longest time too, but both the wiki attack speed article (look under the heading "Maximum Possible Attack Speed") and warframe builder show them as stacking multiplicatively (with berserker stacks set to 3 this build has 215.687 "dps" then if you add Prime Fury to it you get 334.257 and not the ~283.807 you would expect if it were additive).
I can't say that I've tested it thorougly no, but anecdotally from fiddling around with various builds that does seem to be correct enough. In many cases though you'd need a macro to be able to see the full benefit of it, and there's a fair number of combos that just don't macro well (or at least not easily anyway).
It's also worth noting that (Prime) Fury stacks additively with Volt's Speed and Valkyr's War Cry, so if you're building a weapon for use with them PF probably isn't worth equiping, unless you're specifically taking it for the increased finisher speed.
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I guess this is one of those things where it depends on where you draw the line for "good" at.
The Gazal is another entry in the current trend of the syndicate melees and the Zenistar, mid to upper mid tier weapons with an extra utility kicker. But of that group, aside from the Boltace, it's probably the best weapon to actually use as a weapon, even with the limitations of the current machete stance.
If you can forgive the abysmal video quality, here's an example of how the Gazal fares against 20 level 110 corrupted heavy gunners using this build and the hold RMB+spam combo:
Spoiler[media]
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Whilst it's not at the level of say the Galatine Prime, PDC, or Dual Ichors no, it's not what I would call a "bad" or "mastery fodder" weapon by any means either. Even if it doesn't receive any buffs to itself or its' stance, it does at least provide a machete that you can make a... ah... "bloody mess" of things with at sortie levels. ;)
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15 hours ago, Trollhunter said:
Just got blueballed while using the new machete since it requires a Blood Rush build with Berserker and Fury to keep a high enough attack speed to use comfortably. Just for attack speed. This is an interesting mechanic that's been released on what's presumably a weapon meant to be great. But whereas the Okina, despite being subpar compared to other non-dual-daggers, is still fun to use... the issue with machetes isn't the weapon, but the stance. No one likes Sundering Weave. The animations are choppy, have huge delays, and no mobility. Something needs to be fixed.
Berserker and (Prime) Fury stack multiplicatively, so even just from a DPS perspective the Berserker PF combination often isn't a bad idea if you need it to run a weapon comfortably (or you just really like stabbing things fast, I'll often take the small dps hit to run PF over True Steel on dual swords and the Nikana P just for funsies ;) ).
The hold RMB combo (Flash Flood) on Sundering Weave seems to be the best way to go from a damage perspective and it's the fastest and most mobile one to boot. Just from a usabitlity standpoint it doesn't seem any worse than Crimson Orbit/Coiling Impale on Crimson Dervish (which I also woudn't use without Berseker+PF personally, but then I like to spam).
I dunno, it wouldn't hurt to have more machete stances, but as long as you're using Flash Flood Sundering Weave doesn't seem to be as bad as people make it out to be. The Gazal + Sundering Weave combination may not exactly be top tier, but assuming you're fighting high level armoured enemies, something like this seems to perform around the same range as say Broken War, Destreza, or the Ninkondi using the Blazing Vortex combo. With finishers the Broken War is somewhat better at single target, but the Gazal is much better on the AoE front.
And that's without taking into account whatever value its' Djinn synergy has (Djinn doesn't seem to use Fatal Attraction while cloaked, and I don't see myself giving up Shadow Step for it so...).
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1 hour ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said:
That looks like the new Tennogen Jetpack. the Sciathin i think
Yeah that's what it is, you have to be logged in on the steam client for the tennogen items to show up on pc.
1 hour ago, (PS4)Elctrcstel said:1 hour ago, BanaDa said:oh so when will the next tennogen stuff be released?
probably a few months from now.
Well, the accepted another round on Sept. 8th, it took about a month from the acceptance to ingame last time, but they apparently have some technical issues they have to test and some feedback for each of the submissions they'd like worked on now so who knows how long it'll take this time.
The thread on it is here if anyone is interested, but there's not much up on it yet. It's where they'll annouce which submissions have made the cut when they're ready to.
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18 hours ago, Hixlysss said:
My only real issue with the hammers/heavy blades is...they are the best choices for combat. They out damage practically everything else by what...at least double for everything except maaaybe 4 or 5 weapons? The damage they do out weighs ANY negatives they have, which the only negative they have is slower attack speed which the galatine prime say "Nah brah, I'm fast!"
Each melee grip should have it's own unique traits, heavy weapons momentum should be like a spool up time for them, they start slow and get faster and faster, capping out at 1.0 swing speed. Twin Daggers should have longer combo counter and should all have much higher crit chance/damage...but all of this is moot as DE more than likely won't be touching weapons until we get damage 3.0/weapons 2.0.
9 hours ago, (PS4)DBR87 said:It does seem the majority of the best melee weapons in the game are in the Hammer and Heavy Blade category. Jat Kittag, War, Scindo Prime, Galetine Prime, Frago Prime and Sibear put out some the highest damage numbers in the game. At the same time, Nikana Prime, Dual Kamas Prime, and Broken War put out competing numbers with Dual Ichor and Dark Split Sword in dual sword modes coming close, too. Dual Swords especially since they strike twice per button press and ramp up Berserker faster than other weapons naturally.
So it really boggles the mind why they are making Syndicate hammers, which will be at least high on the meta if not on top, and there is a heavy blade log in reward.
Would it be so bad if we had a sortie viable Dual Dagger or Claw weapon? Claws have two of the rarest stance but NO weapons competing with Nikana Prime or Fragor Prime in DPS/Burst. Fang Prime is an embarrassment of the Prime moniker.
Each weapon class has its' own separate attack speed, or rather each individual combo has its' own attack speed. So the Galatine P is still pretty slow, it's better to think of the attack speed listed in the armoury as a percentage modifier.
The Galatine P for example has an attack speed of 100% base of whatever combo you're executing, whereas War is 91.7% and Scindo P is 96.7%. Fragor P has an attack speed of 80% and Dual Kamas Prime have 117%, but you can't directly compare those values against each other or against heavy blades since they're performing different attack animations.
In order to compare between different weapon groups you have to work out what the actual swing speed of the combo you're using is, as well as factoring in its' damage multipliers and multi hit attacks. As far as I'm aware the only work that has been done on that is that of reddit user Dunking Machine (his results can be found in text form here and in video form here) and while he didn't get to everything, unless someone else takes up the project it's the only basis for comparison we have. And while it's
mere hours(was when I started this this morning, but I didn't get to finishing it until now lol ;) )from beingoutdated, there's a chart here that expands his charts with some more recent weapons and Prime Pressure Point.Obviously raw dps isn't the whole story, there are many other factors that can determine a weapons actual effectiveness. Some of them Dunking Machine pointed out, like status, cc, mobility, range and knockdown/stagger immunity. There's a few he didn't though, for one comparing every weapon at the same combo multiplier keeps things nice and neat and it makes sense from an endurance run perspective (which seems to be mainly what Dunking Machine did) but that's not the reality of things post SotR (and it never was for defense and interception in first place). In practice, of the top end (at least for actual fighting, slide attack builds are another matter, and especially at sortie levels you can make a pretty fair case for the Atterax being the "best" melee weapon, it's essentially the simulor of the melee world) weapons dual swords are dramatically faster at tiering up the combo multiplier, and the Nikana P is still a fair bit faster than the heavy blades and hammers. Another thing is that he only looked at the combo itself specifically, when many of the combos end in some form of knock down or another opening up ground finishers. Which probably doesn't effect things too much for heavy blades and hammers, but Blind Justice and Swirling Tiger both have enhanced ground finisher multipliers (the base is 400%, the wiki lists 800% for Blind Justice and 1600% for Swirling Tiger, Swirling Tiger also has two attacks to it with guaranteed bleed procs which the wiki doesn't show, plus its' hitbox lends it to hitting multiple enemies with the Dual Ichor and Dual Kamas Prime epecially with Primed Reach) and especially in the dual swords case that finisher makes a big difference in their effectiveness.
Anyway, all that rambling to say that things are a little more complicated than they look on paper and that most of the top weapons do have a niche of their own. The Galatine Prime did push into alot of them though yes, but its' slow speed still kinda hurts it in normal gameplay. And in any case as forum goer @Racter0325 brought up in a recent thread, they're all so much more powerful than the existing content demands (when built right for the mission) that it just doesn't matter much what you choose to use right now.
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It's because Berserker sits in another separate silo of attack speed bonus than Fury does. Fury, and most everything that isn't Berserker or the arcane melee attack speed buff, stack additively and the speed effects in that additive pile have an effect on finisher speeds. But Berserker is off in its' own multiplicative speed buff category that only effects attack speed and not finisher speed. So in a sense, it would be a nerf for Berserker to get moved into the additive pile just so it could boost finisher speeds.
The problem is that most people use it as their only attack speed boost (which, to be fair, is only natural since it has the highest attack speed boost for a single mod) so the absence of its' effect is felt keenly. Berserker only provides about 14% or so more dps than a maxed Prime Fury, so if you're concerned with finisher animations that's probably a better choice. Unfortunately though, most players just don't have access to that. :/ *insert primed bandaids grumble here*
The wiki article on attack speed shows what each source of attack speed counts as under the "Maximum Possible Attack Speed" heading. Pretty much anything that isn't marked as multiplicative will boost finisher speed.
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20 hours ago, (PS4)cbrstar said:
Better question... How the heck can people move and even run with the Galatine? It's so cartoonishly long it sticks past the ground.
(I know it's based on some medieval long sword, but common they weren't slung over their backs like that!)
It's a bit goofy yeah. The sort of "true" two handed or great swords that it's loosely based off of were more renaissance era weapons than medieval, and from what I've seen, most of the historical depictions of them being caried seem to show them being leaned on the shoulder with the flat of the blade. But I'm just a nerd and not a historical expert, so take that with a pinch or two of salt. ;)
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On 9/11/2016 at 8:18 PM, ScorpioneITA said:
One thing, what's the builds for these weapons? Raw dps and attack speed? is channeled on?
Also you would have to pull off the whole combo to achieve the damage something like fragor P achieves in 1 big slide attack? your dps may be at 340k but whats the single hit damage? You're saying without the combo I am looking not at 340k galatine, but at less than 80k galatine. Also you're not going to be hitting your enemy everysecond. due to spawn location travel time etc. That making thus dps pointless has some have stated before. Having actually used fragor P vs armor etc and not just theory craft, It can struggle at the very begging of a 0 combo vs an arso corrupted gunner level 100+ no armor or shattering impact helps in that regard or, if using valkyr/wukong allows me to trigger finishers on enemy, where fragor would easily do well over 90k, eliminating its need of shattering impact ever or life steal. the 2400% finisher multiplier just from its hammer exclusivity easily tackles some ''issues'' you would encounter in a mission. Not just relying on fanta dps vs fanta no armor no damage reduction mob presence.
If you soley take numbers into account, the higher the combo multiplier is, the more damage fragor P would do in a slide scenario compared to combo dps.
Forgot to mention channel on fragor prime is not the standard 50% 1.5 but its a 1.8 multiplier.
Also all dps go to hell if you throw covert lethality in the mix, making daggers the highest dpsing melee weapons.
Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, been a rough week. ;)
The builds are the same that Dunking Machine originally used, with the exception of Prime Pressure Point replace the normal version (it wasn't out yet when he did his comparisons). So it's basically it's this (PPP, Berserker, 2 90% elementals, Bloodrush, Body Count, Organ Shatter, True Steel). With the excetion of the Karyst that swaps True Steel for Covert Lethality (well, really, it swaps Prime Pressure Point out for Covert Lethality, then it swaps True Steel out for PPP). It's mostly just a raw dps paper build, yes.
The dps is the average you'll get while spamming that combo. As far as I'm aware, you can't solve for the damage of quick attacks because no one has worked out the attack speed for them (the attack speed the arsenal shows for a weapon is just another percentage modifier like a built in fury or spoiled strike), so the only real dps figures we can solve for are the ones that Dunking Machine covered. Broken Bull is kind of a clunky pain in the arse to use though, yeah.
Yes, slide attacks are one area where Fragor P will actually outdamage the Galatine P, but the Galatine does have decent slide attack damage unlike most heavy blades and it has a larger slide attack hitbox than the Fragor P, so I guess you could still say it's a bit of a trade off.
As far as vs high levels of armour goes, the Galatine P has better options for dealing with it than the Fragor P does. Unfortunately Shattering Impact doesn't take the amount of impact damage you're dealing into acount, it just requires that you do some impact damage in the first place. So that ends up only really working well for fast swinging weapons. Likewise, corrosive procs are also something that favour faster weapons, especially since you have to deal with IPS damage getting weighted 4 to 1 over elemental when determining status proc effects. Bleeds are pretty much the one anti armour shortcut that slow weapons can use well, and with almost 95% of its' IPS as slash and a 20% status chance the Galatine P is fixed pretty well for running a bleed build. It is very combo multiplier dependant of course, yes, which is something that does hurt it a bit at sortie levels since enemies are still so squishy it can be difficult to get a good multiplier going quickly.
The charts don't use channeling multipliers no, but even with that accounted for the Galatine P still comes out on top.
The melee combo multipler count will boost the Fragor's slide attack damage yeah, but interestingly at higher multipliers it starts to slow down in dps gains quite a bit compared to other weapons. At 35% crit chance, it seems to place too much of its' dps emphasis on crit so that it starts to run into severe diminishing returns faster than weapons balanced around lower crit chances.
Anyway, I don't mean to come off as combative or negative or anything, I don't really like or dislike the Galatine P at this point, it's just that they stat-ed it out to be that strong. I'd expect though that when we see the syndicate melees either the Synoid scan hammer or the Sancti Magistar will produce a hammer that can go toe to toe with the Galatine (at least in raw damage, the bleed build will still leave it with the edge against very high armour).
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1 minute ago, ScorpioneITA said:
Still no numbers.
There's more I'd like to say on the subject, but I don't have time right now. If you just want numbers for this stuff, they're here. You can't use the damage values that Warframe Builder provides for comparing between weapons from different melee weapon classes without taking the effect of the stances/combos (even the combo from not having a stance equiped or the quick attack chain will have an effect on a weapons dps, but we don't have any data about those, as far as I'm aware) into account.
While it's incomplete, the reddit user Dunking Machine has done some research into the effects of various combos (which can be found here and here) on dps, which are the only real insight we have into the comparative value of different melee weapons.
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Here's a dps comparison of some (I didn't bother to do the Dakra Prime since it's exactly 2/3rds of Broken War's dps) of the weapons mentioned above using Dunking Machine's stance values. All weapons use this build (the augment for the Prisma Skana is a dps loss), except the Prime Fury Broken War variant which uses this one. The Nikana P is using the Bind Justice Heeding Call combo, the "longsword"s use Crimson Dervish Coiling Impale, and the Destreza's are Vulpine Mask Duel Secrets (not really sure this is the best one, but it's all Dunking Machine tested).
2x combo multiplier
Spoiler2x combo multiplier Nikana Prime- Blind Justice: Heeding Call- 50,852 PF Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 31,522 Destreza- Vulpine Mask: Duel Secrets- 27,309 Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 26,979 Prisma Skana- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 17,5524x combo multiplier
Spoiler4x combo multiplier Nikana Prime- Blind Justice: Heeding Call- 163,675 PF Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 89,369 Destreza- Vulpine Mask: Duel Secrets- 87,897 Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 81,136 Prisma Skana- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 56,4944x combo multiplier with Naramon Deadly Intent
Spoiler4x combo multiplier with Naramon Deadly Intent Nikana Prime- Blind Justice: Heeding Call- 206,499 Destreza- Vulpine Mask: Duel Secrets- 110,889 PF Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 105,445 Broken War- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 99,913 Prisma Skana- Crimson Dervish: Coiling Impale- 71,070The Nikana P comes out way ahead in terms of raw dps, though the other swords do have access to prompted finishers which can be quite potent. On the other hand though, by the time enemies have enough armour that you need the finishers, a bleed build (that's just one example, there's other ways to do it as well of course) on the Nikana P tends to still fare better.
When it comes to the Destreza vs Broken War it's pretty much down to personal preference, though if you don't have acccess to a ranked up Prime Fury the Destreza is probably the better option. It is worth noting though, that when Dunking Machine added Arcane Avenger procs into the equation, Broken War was seeing larger proportional gains than the Destreza. So if you run with that and/or crit kitties Broken War might be the prefered choice.
And if you're curious how these swords compare to some of the other top melee weapons, there's a post that covers a number of them here.
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18 hours ago, Sloan441 said:
Good...bad...I'm the tenno with the gun.
17 hours ago, Beggining said:So, the ugly? XD
(Reference)
In keeping with the chain of slightly non sequitur pop culture refences and because I'm kinda disappointed it hasn't come up, given the state of the 'verse we find ourselves in...
If bowing up the labs and research of a psychotic evil genius makes us bad guys, well...
Spoiler
On top of that it's worth noting the nature of Tyl's research. If you poke around in the sabatoge missions you might notice all the infested grineer chargers in various tubes in the labs. There is perhaps a reason for that. It seems quite likely that what the manics actually are is grineer infested hybrids of some sort.
So, in other words, the Uranus sea labs are essentially the set of Alien: Resurrection. And that's the kind of s@!t that needs to be un-wanted with fire. 0.o
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7 minutes ago, (PS4)KainBethell said:
I have been following Tennogen since it started and have even created a stream account and put money on it so I could vote for the ones I like.
This is the first time I have seen Tennogen Deluxe skins mentioned, so was a little surprised to see the spilt.
Do the Custom helms work with different skins, i.e: Excalibur custom helm with his immortal skin ?
There were skin sets like this in previous tenno gen rounds, all of the skins (both normal and "deluxe") have helmets you can use with any other skin (though looking good with them is another matter... ;) ).
The difference between the "basic" tenno gen skin sets and the "deluxe" tenno gen sets is (as @Airwolfen mentioned previously) that the helms that come with the "basic" skins are just retextures of the normal helmets for those frames, but the helms that come with the "deluxe" tenno gen skins have both custom models as well as textures. And of course you have to pay extra for that. ;)
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5 hours ago, Nazrethim said:
Well, so far the only "contra" to that is "PvE players who hate Conclave whining about how they can't get a Conclave reward by cheesing in [insert Draco replacement]" even though the Conclave stances are tradable, easily accessible and dirt cheap to get.
It's a bit more complicated than that. So much of the balance of weapons is tied to the combos, and conclave is on such a radically different scale than the rest of the game, that it's almost certain that the stances as they are now would be either significantly under or over powered. If they're under powered, I guess it wouldn't hurt anything by bringing them over, but it wouldn't really be that beneficial either. And obviously, if they over perform, then there's no way to bring them over unmodified.
Ideally they'd create PvE versions of the stances with animations (it's the combo animations that set the effective "attacks per second" value of melee weapons) scaled for the presence of attack speed mods and damage multipliers appropriate for the PvE environment.
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40 minutes ago, TapeKiller said:
YES, having to build a warframe twice (and forma them enough times as well) is just ridicolously stupid.
On a related note, why don't we already have more appearance customization slots as well? This game keeps shoving cosmetics at us, why do we only have three appearance slots available?It's something they've mentioned wanting to do something about (for both cosmetics and mods) in a dev stream in the last couple months. The hold up is they have to figure out how to do it without ballooning their database size. When they mentioned it on the stream they were thinking about tying it to mastery rank some how (most accounts are fairly low mr so it's one way to help reduce the db bloat), but it's been over a month now (I think ?) since they mentioned it, and we haven't heard anything more about it since. So we don't really know where that plan is at right now, in terms of implementation.
And just going by the way they were talking about it, I suspect we wont get enough slots (if and when it does happen) to completely obviate the need for multiple frames. Maybe an extra two or three slots per frame/weapon that can be unlocked, or something like that.
The database issue is also one of the things that's holding back individual accessory colouring. And the interaction between the two might be another thing holding up additional customization slots, since per object tinting would add to the potential size of each slot.
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I generally prefer the skins with the prime bits on, but at the same time I understand some folks don't. So, yeah, a toggle of some sort really seems to be the way to go here. Or failing that, at least provide two copies of the skin with tennogen purchases, one with the prime bits (only equipable on the prime frames) and one without.
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3 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:
However, the sortie that was just painful was the one before it, with the increased shields, now that mag is useless at breaking them there's really no go-to other than cc them and hope they leave you alone.
When it comes to corpus over shield sorties there's about two and a half main different approaches to overcoming them. Generally the best option is pure toxin damage which will bypass the shields competely, though many enemy types become immune to it when they're being shielded by the shield ospreys. So the shield ospreys become very high priority targets, similar to ancient healers in high level void missions. Toxin is also kind of so so when it comes to dealing with armoured units like bursas.
The other big one is bleeds*, which bypass shields as well as armour, though there aren't many weapons outside of the melee category that are ideal for this (Tigris P is the only one that springs immediately to mind, though there are others than kind of do it too). In general it's a bit slower at killing most things than toxin (though with melee you can go with toxin as your element in a single 60% elemental bleed build to sort of split the difference), and at least some osprey types seem to be immune to status damage, so it's not so effective at all against them.
And the half a method is just to stack raw magnetic and impact damage (magnetic procs aren't as useful as you'd think they'd be, since they only apply to the pre-sortie augmented shield values) on a high dps weapon and try to just beat your way through. ;) It's not elegent, but there are some weapons that can do it.
*Bleeds are really just a convenient source of finisher damage, and all finisher damage ignores shields and armour both. However nulifier swarms can make ability based finisher damage less reliable.
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10 hours ago, Dragazer said:
Melee dps is a little more complicated than what WFbuilder shows. It doesn't account for attack speed (the attack speed stat shown in the arsenal is more like another multiplicative layer of fury or berserker) or damage multipliers since they both come from combos and WFB doesn't address that. The only information (that I'm aware of) that we have about melee combos comes from Dunking Machine's research.
The relevant numbers out of that are the stance power factors for Cleaving Whirlwind: Broken Bull 467.7%, Tempo Royale: August Mesto 300.0%, and Crushing Ruin: Shattered Village 194.4%. When you factor those into your channeling numbers you end up with ~479,163 dps for Galatine P with Broken Bull, ~307,353 for Galatine P with August Mesto, and ~254,417 for Fragor P with Shattered Village.
Basically Fragor P ends up being more on War's tier than the Galatine P's, even when channeling. Though I'd imagine either the Sancti Magistar or Synoid Heliocor (or perhaps both) will probably put a hammer at that level again, and we'll all be complaining next year about how the Umbra Scindo buries the Galatine P or somesuch. ;)
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Woohoo thanks DE =)
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22 hours ago, Snowbluff said:
Oh cool. A nice DPS chart. Thanks for the info! :3
Oh, and Dark Split Sword is good. Which is technically a heavy blade (my holsters keep telling me so). I wonder what the quick melee numbers look like.
Happy to help =)
Yeah, I'm curious about what quick melee looks like as well. The problem is we only have numbers for the stuff Dunking Machine looked at. Which didn't include quick melee unfortunately. So someone else would have to find the actual attack speeds for all of those. There's the same problem if they introduce any new stances or combos (well he didn't cover all of them in the first place, but probably most of the ones that matter).
So for better or for worse, being able to solve for melee dps at all is only a temporary thing unless someone takes up where he left off. :/
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6 hours ago, Jackviator said:
Yeaaah that's not really what's being discussed here. I was just using his video to supplement the original content I posted about how I believe an obviously broken excuse of a peashooter sidearm should be buffed.
I suppose you could say various things about him either way, in principle the idea of theming a weapon review series around philosphy of use is a great idea. In execution... well... Particularly in the case of this Sicarus Prime one I have no idea what on earth (or off of it for that matter) he was smoking though. Given Brozime's (almost) no forma policy one wonders if he didn't even patato the thing.
The Sicarus P isn't a great weapon to be sure, but it's not an out right bad one either (certainly not worse than any of the starter secondaries 0.o). It is a victim of its' age, but it'll still do Sortie 1s just fine if you take the time to build it up. It can start falling off a bit hard in sortie 2s, depending on the conditions, but it can even manage some of those as well. It has about as much burst dps as a standard non-Vaykor Marelok, but it's the long reload and ammo consumption that really hurt it.
If they buffed it's per burst reload time to about 2/3rds of the time of the per round reload of the Marelok (or in other words a reload time of around ~1.3-1.4 seconds ish) that would bring their sustained dps roughly in line as well. Throw in a nice sized reserve ammo capacity boost and you'd have a pretty good QoL buff for when it gets unvaulted. Unfortunately it doesn't look like most vaulted primes are seeing even that much of a boost, so I wouldn't hold out hope for any changes really. :/
Maybe an Umbra Sicarus someday perhaps...
On 8/25/2016 at 10:59 PM, Dracario said:Dual Zoren is an alternative to the dual ichors because it deals slash damage and the ichors deal toxin damage.
The Dual Zorens aren't too bad if you're running full CP, but the lack of status hurts them a bit. The Prisma Dual Cleavers have around the same dps but with a lot more status (25% vs 5%) albeit with a little less reach. Or you've got the Dual Kama Primes at a little less dps but with more reach and more status.
There was a guy at Tenno Con though who made some real life Dual Zoren Primes and asked during one of the panels if and when there would be DZ Primes in game. The devs said that yeah that was something they could do, and the art team wanted to take reference photos of his Zorens. So if we're going to get Zoren buffs, I'd expect they'd come in the form of a prime version.
I know a lot of people are hoping for prime Venkas for a kitty themed Valkyr prime, but I'd rather see the Dual Zorens with a more berserker themed Valk personally. But who knows when and if they'll really come.
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14 hours ago, ElectroPoi said:
Every time I try to equip the Nova Deluxe Skin on Nova Prime, the game crashes. IS anyone else having this issue?
I haven't had any issues with it like that, no. :/ I just tried equiping it and unequiping and re-equiping it, and everything worked fine.
Maybe there's some file corruption on your WF install ? I would imagine there's an option somewhere in the games launcher to verify your game files, that might fix it if that's what it is. But that may take a while to complete.
Make Daggers great again
in Weapons
Posted
I'd agree that buffs are in order, but the way attack speed works for melee weapons in Warframe is a little bit more complicated than that.
Hammers aren't really any faster (well, maybe, but if so, it's only because the Synoid scan hammer can kind of use Berserker unlike any of the dual daggers. ;) ), the raw "attacks per second" attack speed for melee weapons is baked into the animations, the stat listed in the arsenal is more of a percentage playback speed modifier. So it's really only useful for comparisons between two weapons using the same animations.