Gandalf_White

Remove LoS on Tragedy.

Yes, during both, and before LoS was introduced to Tragedy at all. My pasted comment is from after the LoS was "improved" It doesn't matter how much they improve it. Tragedy as a status detonator should not have LoS since Dark Verse already had it by default. Right now there is a double LoS check and that makes Dante clunky to use because his 4 often won't detonate enemies affected with 3 due to an obstacle like a column, ramp, etc. This makes it extremely ineffective in tight spaces or spaces with tons of obstacles, which is what most tilesets consist of and is further proven by the fact that I do a better job at killing stuff with a melee weapon or an off-meta gun like the kuva karak.

I'm just gonna copy and paste my comments from another thread because they will just get ignored by DE and everyone else over there anyways and then a year or two later they will release a bandaid augment: I don't care if he can kill steel path content. He is no longer fun. He is tedious and clunky to play and he might as well just be another weapons platform #182471569 instead of a cool wizard frame.

Thank you DE for ensuring my Dante spends the rest of his life as a flower in my helminth room.

Dante still plays like crap, but now that most people have already put him in helminth and stopped talking about the nerf because of your stubborness y'all will just act like nothing happened only to revisit Dante a year or two later with a measly augment mod when his usage rates are at caliban levels.

Just popping in to say that tragedy's fun factor is still tragic. At least the ability is aptly named and reflects the player's experience when using it.

The amount of twisting and moving goalposts you go through just to get your way... You: "Mesa can't shoot through walls at all" Me: "She can, based on these conditions" You: "Oh so she still can't shoot through walls!" The lenient LoS checks are only on her. They are part of her kit. It's how her ability was meant to work and it works fine. They are NOT on Dante nor any other warframe in existence.

This gets even more hilarious when you know that Mesa's LoS is so much more lenient than Dante's. Enemies you have seen will still remain in your "LoS" for a few seconds even if they are behind a wall, meaning your Mesa will still hit them behind any walls, obstacles, column or any other crap that you see on a tight, cluttered map. But hey, Mr. KnowItAll here says Mesa can't hit through walls. Really showcases his lack of knowledge tbh...

Next time try playing on a tileset that isn't called "Lua" or "Void" or "Zariman"

Today I went into Warframe to give Dante one more chance Went into the new elite alert that puts you into a lvl 110 steel path survival node on Mars in a grineer ship tileset. Enemies chewed through overguard in seconds, I ran out of my 700 energy in seconds due to trying to keep it up. Neither Zenurik, nor Arcane Energize, nor Equilibrium were able to keep up with the energy consumption. Ended up not even using dark verse and tragedy at all due to the horrible LoS. Doesn't matter that I'm in a big room on the grineer ship, there are so many obstacles and columns that Tragedy kills maybe 3 enemies and is not worth the energy cost. I ended up just using my melee weapon because it was vastly more consistent and required less preparation and did not produce dimnishing results like Dante's tragedy does now. It was genuinely the most unfun survival I have ever played in my 3k hours in warframe, because I was unable to use my Dante to his full ability. After I finished the node I just went back to my main-before-Dante which is Gauss, because he at least is fun to play. Please remove LoS.

Today I went into Warframe to give Dante one more chance. Went into the new elite alert that puts you into a lvl 110 steel path survival node on Mars in a grineer ship tileset. Enemies chewed through overguard in seconds, I ran out of my 700 energy in seconds due to trying to keep it up. Neither Zenurik, nor Arcane Energize, nor Equilibrium were able to keep up with the energy consumption. Ended up not even using dark verse and tragedy at all due to the horrible LoS. Doesn't matter that I'm in a big room on the grineer ship, there are so many obstacles and columns that Tragedy kills maybe 3 enemies and is not worth the energy cost. I ended up just using my melee weapon because it was vastly more consistent and required less preparation and did not produce dimnishing results like Dante's tragedy does now. It was genuinely the most unfun survival I have ever played in my 3k hours in warframe, because I was unable to use my Dante to his full ability. After I finished the node I just went back to my main-before-Dante which is Gauss, because he at least is fun to play. Please remove LoS.

I'm a complete Blender beginner, but I think this is my best looking render so far.

Wow. What a way to completely ignore your playerbase. They should be handing out some kind of awards for that. The thread is about Dante and THIS is what you respond to, out of 25 pages of Dante. Doesn't suprise me in the slightest. The entirety of LoS nerf along with hotfixes has been rushed out ASAP to shove it down our throats and hope we forget about it over the weekend. Now if there was no Dante nerfs all this would never have happened and everyone would have been happy...

As Gandalf I +1 this. Revert the LoS nerf.

Yeah, no. I don't know how you did your tests, if you cherry picked them or just did them once and it happened to kill all enemies and you went with "okay they lied!" It's affected by your FoV. On highest FoV the problem is reduced but it still happens especially when you stand far away. On default FoV (65) it's horrible. Oh yea, I also got video proof. Just went to the simulacrum and tested it few minutes ago with the default fov and max fov. It doesn't happen every time of course, sometimes I get all kills, but it's not consistent at all. I only included clips where it does happen. I'd say around 50% of the time there will be at least 1 enemy remaining with a max fov, while with the default one the issue appears to be not only more common but also more enemies stay alive.

It's not about him not being viable or strong anymore. It's about him being UNFUN and much more INCONSISTENT than before. On launch day he was incredibly satisfying to play. Mark a group of enemies with Dark verse, go to the other end of the room, mark another group of enemies with dark verse, go inbetween those two groups and explode all marked enemies with Tragedy. Sastisfying, fluid, great synergy. Nowhere near as OP as some people claim and the only through-wall killing he would do is on enemies marked with his Dark Verse slash procs (or other status) or on weak enemies that are under lvl 30 and die to the pitifully small raw damage of Tragedy. You cannot do that anymore. You are forced to stare right at them when you do that, and any marked enemy that is not in your LoS will still live and not explode. The 2nd group that's on the other side of the room? Likely out of your ability range, and is unaffected despite being in your LoS because you still have to keep looking at the first group which is on the opposite side of the 2nd group. And then what do you have to do? Cast another 2 dark verses and a tragedy after that. That's an awful lot of energy and time compared to any other nuke in the game OR even your own weapons, even with archon shards for casting speed. Like seriously, if I wanted to kill a localised group of enemies I can do it faster with my weapons than with Dante having to cast 2 abilities before being able to cast the third. Pre-nerf during a solo netracell I was already having trouble with energy even though I had zenurik, primed flow and a maxxed arcane energize. Now with this LoS as well as a nerf to Overguard it means I'll have to waste even more energy on keeping up that overguard on top of the owls and marking enemies even more often with Dark Verse because some decided that they just won't die. Not to mention that I also use Noctua, which isn't really a viable weapon past a certain level, but it's still really fun to use. But yea, it adds up to the already high energy consumption of Dante. Dark Verse already has its own LoS check. Tragedy did not need another one.

It's literally how his entire kit worked before the awful nerf... Now it"s a double LoS check. One for Dark Verse, one for Tragedy. Ruins fluidity, makes the ability clunky, doesn't allow you to mark two different groups of enemies with his 3 to kill them with one use of tragedy.unless they are all somehow in front of you and in range of your abilty.

You are so out of the loop I can't even believe it. Most people here are complaining about his fluidity being ruined. Almost nobody cares about him not being yet another OP, boring, bland weapons platform...

Yea Dark Verse always had LoS. It's the sole reason why I'm so against LoS on his Tragedy as well. There doesn't need to be a double LoS check. It just makes Tragedy clunky to use.

Remove LoS from Tragedy. Dark Verse is already LoS. It's mandatory for Tragedy to be even remotely viable as a damage ability. Tragedy, as a "detonator" does NOT need LoS.

If you really really have to keep this cursed LoS on Tragedy then PLEASE AT LEAST make LoS ignored for enemies affected by Dante's Dark Verse. The whole purpose of Dark Verse was to basically "mark enemies for death" and punish them later on, obstacle or not. Dark Verse in itself already has LoS. Tragedy does not need it for enemies affected by it. It's an unnecessary double check that makes the ability clunky to use.

And I called it. He is still unfun after the "LOS Fix" He shouldn't have had LOS on Tragedy in the first place. He already had it on his Dark Verse... You keep saying this but I don't see anything indicating that this is the case. You have over 60 combined pages which in 90% consist of people telling you to revert the nerfs, you have multiple steam discussions posts about those nerfs, you have reddit posts with thousands of upvotes telling you this entire nerf was unwarranted and does not fix the actual issue of antisynergy with rage, vex armor, etc. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN PARTNER CONTENT CREATORS TELLING YOU THIS NERF SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

I'm just going to quote what I said previously, because I don't have the nerves for your guys' stubborness... And this:

...a floating book which is... more useless than your weapons, an exalted weapon which serves mostly as a status primer and owls which boost status damage. Both owls and noctua itself are meant to be used in conjuction with dark verse and tragedy... Overguard which dies the moment you go to steel path and the regen/s relies on you getting kills, again, meant to be synergised with tragedy..

No he won't. He already isn't even when LOS sometimes works. Previously I could breeze accross the room, marking groups of enemies with Dark Verse and then killing them with Final Verse. Now I can't do that. Now I have to mark a group, then waste a Dark Verse on the same group (because doing this on another group won't do anything much anyways) and kill them with 4, all while constantly staring right at them. My off-meta guns (quellor, kuva karak, tenora prime) can wipe that group faster (ON STEEL PATH) than Dante can cast two Dark Verses and a Final verse WITH 2 tau casting speed shards. There's no point in using his damage abilities anymore.