Gandalf_White
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Posts posted by Gandalf_White
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1 hour ago, Samhel said:
Did you try him *before improved LoS or *after improved LoS? There was a patch where the state of LoS was still an unreliable mess like what you're describing here.
Yes, during both, and before LoS was introduced to Tragedy at all. My pasted comment is from after the LoS was "improved"
It doesn't matter how much they improve it. Tragedy as a status detonator should not have LoS since Dark Verse already had it by default. Right now there is a double LoS check and that makes Dante clunky to use because his 4 often won't detonate enemies affected with 3 due to an obstacle like a column, ramp, etc. This makes it extremely ineffective in tight spaces or spaces with tons of obstacles, which is what most tilesets consist of and is further proven by the fact that I do a better job at killing stuff with a melee weapon or an off-meta gun like the kuva karak.
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1 hour ago, Slayer-. said:
My Dante does high level content in Steel Path, what's wrong with yours?
I'm just gonna copy and paste my comments from another thread because they will just get ignored by DE and everyone else over there anyways and then a year or two later they will release a bandaid augment:
QuoteToday I went into Warframe to give Dante one more chance
Went into the new elite alert that puts you into a lvl 110 steel path survival node on Mars in a grineer ship tileset.
Enemies chewed through overguard in seconds, I ran out of my 700 energy in seconds due to trying to keep it up. Neither Zenurik, nor Arcane Energize, nor Equilibrium were able to keep up with the energy consumption.
Ended up not even using dark verse and tragedy at all due to the horrible LoS. Doesn't matter that I'm in a big room on the grineer ship, there are so many obstacles and columns that Tragedy kills maybe 3 enemies and is not worth the energy cost.
I ended up just using my melee weapon because it was vastly more consistent and required less preparation and did not produce dimnishing results like Dante's tragedy does now.
It was genuinely the most unfun survival I have ever played in my 3k hours in warframe, because I was unable to use my Dante to his full ability. After I finished the node I just went back to my main-before-Dante which is Gauss, because he at least is fun to play.
Please remove LoS.
I don't care if he can kill steel path content. He is no longer fun. He is tedious and clunky to play and he might as well just be another weapons platform #182471569 instead of a cool wizard frame.
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Thank you DE for ensuring my Dante spends the rest of his life as a flower in my helminth room.
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Dante still plays like crap, but now that most people have already put him in helminth and stopped talking about the nerf because of your stubborness y'all will just act like nothing happened only to revisit Dante a year or two later with a measly augment mod when his usage rates are at caliban levels.
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Just popping in to say that tragedy's fun factor is still tragic. At least the ability is aptly named and reflects the player's experience when using it.
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17 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:
Mesa can shoot through walls? Really? Go sit in the front room of the Sanctum Simulacrum room and try shooting the enemies through the wall, without taking advantage of lenient LOS checks. Go on. I'll wait. Make a gif and show us, if you're so sure.
Oh, you mean you can't shoot through walls without taking advantage of the lenient LOS checks? Oh man! Oh gosh! I guess that means she can't shoot through walls, now can she?
Your disingenuous argument aside, it'll be nice if DE includes Mesa's 4 in the next LOS update rollout.
The amount of twisting and moving goalposts you go through just to get your way...
You: "Mesa can't shoot through walls at all"
Me: "She can, based on these conditions"You: "Oh so she still can't shoot through walls!"
The lenient LoS checks are only on her. They are part of her kit. It's how her ability was meant to work and it works fine. They are NOT on Dante nor any other warframe in existence.
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3 hours ago, sh0shin said:
bro is still comparing Mesa and Dante 🥶 🥶 🥶
like dude sure let's remove LoS from fckin guns lmao great argument totally the same as casting a slow spell over and over
and yes a stupid argument deserves to be called out with logical fallacies
This gets even more hilarious when you know that Mesa's LoS is so much more lenient than Dante's. Enemies you have seen will still remain in your "LoS" for a few seconds even if they are behind a wall, meaning your Mesa will still hit them behind any walls, obstacles, column or any other crap that you see on a tight, cluttered map.
But hey, Mr. KnowItAll here says Mesa can't hit through walls.
Really showcases his lack of knowledge tbh...
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8 minutes ago, Cortes02 said:
Some people need to get their marbles together. I'm not a huge fan of los on tragedy since I couldn't use dante at his prime, but y'all acting as if he's a D tier frame now.
I have no problem deleting half the map (whole map depending on position) with one 334, even with multiple corners or staircases. A few enemies stay alive, but it's nothing disruptive. So on this matter, I either have a good bug on my side, or some people don't know how to move around in order to have as many enemies as possible in los.
It's certainly not as satisfying as having everyone around you die, but it doesn't make him unplayable to me as many others are making it look like? Critique DE and point out stuff that you don't like, but you need to calm down a bit on this thing for real
Next time try playing on a tileset that isn't called "Lua" or "Void" or "Zariman"
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Today I went into Warframe to give Dante one more chance
Went into the new elite alert that puts you into a lvl 110 steel path survival node on Mars in a grineer ship tileset.
Enemies chewed through overguard in seconds, I ran out of my 700 energy in seconds due to trying to keep it up. Neither Zenurik, nor Arcane Energize, nor Equilibrium were able to keep up with the energy consumption.
Ended up not even using dark verse and tragedy at all due to the horrible LoS. Doesn't matter that I'm in a big room on the grineer ship, there are so many obstacles and columns that Tragedy kills maybe 3 enemies and is not worth the energy cost.
I ended up just using my melee weapon because it was vastly more consistent and required less preparation and did not produce dimnishing results like Dante's tragedy does now.
It was genuinely the most unfun survival I have ever played in my 3k hours in warframe, because I was unable to use my Dante to his full ability. After I finished the node I just went back to my main-before-Dante which is Gauss, because he at least is fun to play.
Please remove LoS.
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Today I went into Warframe to give Dante one more chance.
Went into the new elite alert that puts you into a lvl 110 steel path survival node on Mars in a grineer ship tileset.
Enemies chewed through overguard in seconds, I ran out of my 700 energy in seconds due to trying to keep it up. Neither Zenurik, nor Arcane Energize, nor Equilibrium were able to keep up with the energy consumption.
Ended up not even using dark verse and tragedy at all due to the horrible LoS. Doesn't matter that I'm in a big room on the grineer ship, there are so many obstacles and columns that Tragedy kills maybe 3 enemies and is not worth the energy cost.
I ended up just using my melee weapon because it was vastly more consistent and required less preparation and did not produce dimnishing results like Dante's tragedy does now.
It was genuinely the most unfun survival I have ever played in my 3k hours in warframe, because I was unable to use my Dante to his full ability. After I finished the node I just went back to my main-before-Dante which is Gauss, because he at least is fun to play.
Please remove LoS.
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I'm a complete Blender beginner, but I think this is my best looking render so far.
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5 hours ago, [DE]Momaw said:
We just tested this as both host and client and didn't see an obvious difference in how long it takes to kill an enemy between being capped at 30fps versus the host running unlimited on a high spec PC (over 400fps).
If you're seeing an issue with Peacemaker time-to-kill being affected by frame rate that can be verified with a video recording and a stopwatch, we need more details how to set up the test 😅
Wow. What a way to completely ignore your playerbase. They should be handing out some kind of awards for that.
The thread is about Dante and THIS is what you respond to, out of 25 pages of Dante.
1 hour ago, LordOfKenpo said:Apparently someone has reported that using Dante's Tragedy now actually drops the games FPS significantly, another reason to revert the change. They were saying they regularly get 100+ FPS but when using Tragedy a lot it drops to about 30FPS. If that's true its another reason to remove LoS
Doesn't suprise me in the slightest. The entirety of LoS nerf along with hotfixes has been rushed out ASAP to shove it down our throats and hope we forget about it over the weekend.
Now if there was no Dante nerfs all this would never have happened and everyone would have been happy...
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29 minutes ago, captn_Pat said:
Remember that time Gandalf used a shotgun because his 4 had line of sight? It was one of the worst plot twists in cinema. REVERT THE DANTE LOS CHANGES.
As Gandalf I +1 this.
Revert the LoS nerf.
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4 hours ago, Amen-san said:
It's the same thing with Dante blocking his own los. It's just wrong. Even better, video proof.
Yeah, no. I don't know how you did your tests, if you cherry picked them or just did them once and it happened to kill all enemies and you went with "okay they lied!"
It's affected by your FoV. On highest FoV the problem is reduced but it still happens especially when you stand far away. On default FoV (65) it's horrible.
Oh yea, I also got video proof. Just went to the simulacrum and tested it few minutes ago with the default fov and max fov. It doesn't happen every time of course, sometimes I get all kills, but it's not consistent at all. I only included clips where it does happen. I'd say around 50% of the time there will be at least 1 enemy remaining with a max fov, while with the default one the issue appears to be not only more common but also more enemies stay alive.
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10 hours ago, Erdhan said:
Thanks for your hard work. I spent the whole evening testing Dante and honestly have no idea why people are still raging after the recent hotfix tbh. I can still nuke entire rooms of enemies just fine with Tragedy, despite the new LoS adjustments.
It's not about him not being viable or strong anymore. It's about him being UNFUN and much more INCONSISTENT than before.
On launch day he was incredibly satisfying to play. Mark a group of enemies with Dark verse, go to the other end of the room, mark another group of enemies with dark verse, go inbetween those two groups and explode all marked enemies with Tragedy. Sastisfying, fluid, great synergy. Nowhere near as OP as some people claim and the only through-wall killing he would do is on enemies marked with his Dark Verse slash procs (or other status) or on weak enemies that are under lvl 30 and die to the pitifully small raw damage of Tragedy.
You cannot do that anymore. You are forced to stare right at them when you do that, and any marked enemy that is not in your LoS will still live and not explode. The 2nd group that's on the other side of the room? Likely out of your ability range, and is unaffected despite being in your LoS because you still have to keep looking at the first group which is on the opposite side of the 2nd group. And then what do you have to do? Cast another 2 dark verses and a tragedy after that. That's an awful lot of energy and time compared to any other nuke in the game OR even your own weapons, even with archon shards for casting speed.
Like seriously, if I wanted to kill a localised group of enemies I can do it faster with my weapons than with Dante having to cast 2 abilities before being able to cast the third.
Pre-nerf during a solo netracell I was already having trouble with energy even though I had zenurik, primed flow and a maxxed arcane energize. Now with this LoS as well as a nerf to Overguard it means I'll have to waste even more energy on keeping up that overguard on top of the owls and marking enemies even more often with Dark Verse because some decided that they just won't die. Not to mention that I also use Noctua, which isn't really a viable weapon past a certain level, but it's still really fun to use. But yea, it adds up to the already high energy consumption of Dante.
Dark Verse already has its own LoS check. Tragedy did not need another one.
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1 hour ago, FabiTheSnake said:
The Actual Nerf to do would be to do the reverse, force LOS on his 3 and let his Tragedy trigger on the whole map.
This should have been done Pre-release though, now i think it´s too late to do something like that.
It's literally how his entire kit worked before the awful nerf... Now it"s a double LoS check. One for Dark Verse, one for Tragedy. Ruins fluidity, makes the ability clunky, doesn't allow you to mark two different groups of enemies with his 3 to kill them with one use of tragedy.unless they are all somehow in front of you and in range of your abilty.
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15 minutes ago, TheBlackAce21 said:
I have been keeping a close eye on this the entire time because Dante might be my favorite warframe release in a LONG time. To those talking about LoS revert? You are wrong. He was too strong on release and if you think otherwise, you don't understand enough about how the game works. Even post nerf, his toolkit utility from pageflight and wordwarden alone make him one of the strongest warframes for weapon utility in the game. FULL STOP.
The ability to apply status effects is a major part of the weapon damage meta right now and he has the ability to add status chance and it's multiplicative to base status. That's ABSOLUTELY INSANE. It allows for status chance values that will let you scale heat procs to a stupid level and that's not even counting the effect it has on Gun CO just by itself.
Wordwarden just adds a floating secondary shot that deals a lot of damage for what it is and can be further used to stack status chances you otherwise wouldn't be able to stack with a single gun and companion alone. MORE damage on guns.
Then overguard. Doesn't even matter what state it's in, he has overguard regen and that mechanic has it's own gating outside shields. It's strong as hell on its OWN. And yet we are focused on the fact that he doesn't get a stupidly op range nuke ability as well? It still functions as an AoE coneless expedite suffering. AND it has damage of it's own. It's stupidly strong even with LoS and the fact that it sparked a return to addressing LoS bugs is GREAT for the health of the game.
DE I know you are getting a lot of flak right now, and I want you to know that there are people like myself clapping at how this is being handled. I'm overjoyed to see the direction this whole thing has gone. Dante feels strong and balanced. Plus LoS is getting a solid look. I couldn't be happier right now.
You are so out of the loop I can't even believe it.
Most people here are complaining about his fluidity being ruined. Almost nobody cares about him not being yet another OP, boring, bland weapons platform...
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12 minutes ago, Theweedle said:
Okay so, I dont actually think you are correct about dark verse having no LoS checks before patch 5.4.. I have a clip from the day dante launched proving it could not go through walls. https://imgur.com/a/Bn9UOCG
If you watch the video, you can clearly see dark verse IS NOT going through walls. This video was taken the day after dante launched, using a 250% range build. Thats not to say it didnt occasionally go through certain walls or obstacles, but it 100% DID have LoS restrictions.
Yea Dark Verse always had LoS. It's the sole reason why I'm so against LoS on his Tragedy as well. There doesn't need to be a double LoS check. It just makes Tragedy clunky to use.
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Remove LoS from Tragedy. Dark Verse is already LoS. It's mandatory for Tragedy to be even remotely viable as a damage ability. Tragedy, as a "detonator" does NOT need LoS.
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If you really really have to keep this cursed LoS on Tragedy then PLEASE AT LEAST make LoS ignored for enemies affected by Dante's Dark Verse. The whole purpose of Dark Verse was to basically "mark enemies for death" and punish them later on, obstacle or not. Dark Verse in itself already has LoS. Tragedy does not need it for enemies affected by it. It's an unnecessary double check that makes the ability clunky to use.
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Quote
I don't understand why are you all trying to push this LoS so badly onto his Tragedy? IT ALREADY HAS A SOFT LOS! YOU NEED TO PRIME ENEMIES WITH STATUS FROM HIS 3 WHICH IS LOS. YOU CANNOT NUKE WITHOUT THAT ON ANYTHING THAT IS HIGHER THAN LVL 30. He does NOT need a DOUBLE LOS CHECK. All it does is makes him ANNOYING to use. Being able to mark one group with one use of 3 and another group with another 3, then kill them with 4 was awesome, fun, Dante felt like a chad to use without being too OP. Unlike other, stronger nuke frames, you had to do some preparation to be able to nuke with Dante. Now you can't even do that because you need to have them in view, slowly deleting one group at a time. Why would I use his abilities at that point when my guns can clear out said group 5 times faster!? Jesus.
This is so. ungodly. frustrating. I've been waiting for a wizard themed frame ever since 2016, I love wizards as you might have guessed from my nickname. I fashion framed my Dante to look as closely to Gandalf as I could. And now what? Now he's useless. Unfun. And he will be like that even after the supposed "fix".
And I called it. He is still unfun after the "LOS Fix"
He shouldn't have had LOS on Tragedy in the first place. He already had it on his Dark Verse...
QuoteWe value your input and how it helps us iterate and improve together. Thank you, Tenno.
You keep saying this but I don't see anything indicating that this is the case. You have over 60 combined pages which in 90% consist of people telling you to revert the nerfs, you have multiple steam discussions posts about those nerfs, you have reddit posts with thousands of upvotes telling you this entire nerf was unwarranted and does not fix the actual issue of antisynergy with rage, vex armor, etc. YOU HAVE YOUR OWN PARTNER CONTENT CREATORS TELLING YOU THIS NERF SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.
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I'm just going to quote what I said previously, because I don't have the nerves for your guys' stubborness...
QuoteI don't understand why are you all trying to push this LoS so badly onto his Tragedy? IT ALREADY HAS A SOFT LOS! YOU NEED TO PRIME ENEMIES WITH STATUS FROM HIS 3 WHICH IS LOS. YOU CANNOT NUKE WITHOUT THAT ON ANYTHING THAT IS HIGHER THAN LVL 30. He does NOT need a DOUBLE LOS CHECK. All it does is makes him ANNOYING to use. Being able to mark one group with one use of 3 and another group with another 3, then kill them with 4 was awesome, fun, Dante felt like a chad to use without being too OP. Unlike other, stronger nuke frames, you had to do some preparation to be able to nuke with Dante. Now you can't even do that because you need to have them in view, slowly deleting one group at a time. Why would I use his abilities at that point when my guns can clear out said group 5 times faster!? Jesus.
This is so. ungodly. frustrating. I've been waiting for a wizard themed frame ever since 2016, I love wizards as you might have guessed from my nickname. I fashion framed my Dante to look as closely to Gandalf as I could. And now what? Now he's useless. Unfun. And he will be like that even after the supposed "fix".
And this:
QuotePreviously I could breeze accross the room, marking groups of enemies with Dark Verse and then killing them with Final Verse.
Now I can't do that. Now I have to mark a group, then waste a Dark Verse on the same group (because doing this on another group won't do anything much anyways) and kill them with 4, all while constantly staring right at them.
My off-meta guns (quellor, kuva karak, tenora prime) can wipe that group faster (ON STEEL PATH) than Dante can cast two Dark Verses and a Final verse WITH 2 tau casting speed shards. There's no point in using his damage abilities anymore.
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Just now, Shodian87 said:
Okay, then don't? Lol
He's got other ones. I don't understand this mentality.
...a floating book which is... more useless than your weapons, an exalted weapon which serves mostly as a status primer and owls which boost status damage. Both owls and noctua itself are meant to be used in conjuction with dark verse and tragedy... Overguard which dies the moment you go to steel path and the regen/s relies on you getting kills, again, meant to be synergised with tragedy..
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6 minutes ago, Shodian87 said:
Dante will be fine once they fix LoS. He's still fun to plqy.
No he won't. He already isn't even when LOS sometimes works. Previously I could breeze accross the room, marking groups of enemies with Dark Verse and then killing them with Final Verse.
Now I can't do that. Now I have to mark a group, then waste a Dark Verse on the same group (because doing this on another group won't do anything much anyways) and kill them with 4, all while constantly staring right at them.
My off-meta guns (quellor, kuva karak, tenora prime) can wipe that group faster (ON STEEL PATH) than Dante can cast two Dark Verses and a Final verse WITH 2 tau casting speed shards. There's no point in using his damage abilities anymore.
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PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.8
in PC Update Notes
Posted
Remove LoS on Tragedy.