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Agayek

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  1. I'm mildly disappointed that Wukong's skirt is still bugged, but otherwise good hotfix. Thanks DE.
  2. To be fair, Range is 100% a dump stat on Nukong. It's almost entirely irrelevant to the frame. The only thing it impacts is his Defy retaliate AOE (which won't kill anything that matters in the first place), and the stun from coming out of Cloudwalker (which, while nice, isn't all that big of a loss, especially given that you're already going to be landing on the important target(s) to be stunned in the first place, so you can land finishers on them). Narrow Minded is, quite possibly, the best possible mod you could put on him.
  3. To be fair, you can dismiss the clone with the augment, you just need to find a pit to jump in to do it.
  4. Huh, sounds like the technical side is covered then yeah. 'swhat I get for not getting around to playing Loki yet. I've still got some usability concerns, but the only way to know how serious those are is to try it. Would be nice if DE went for it. Fingers crossed.
  5. The clone location swap was actually my original idea, but I have a feeling it would be difficult to implement on the technical side, and more than a little disorienting for the player, given where spectres can go/get stuck. I'd certainly like them to try to build it and playtest it, but as awesome as it is conceptually, I have some serious practical concerns about it. As for the 4, it's not a matter of Primal Fury not being good enough (because it is; I wreck 70+ enemies with the big stick without breaking a sweat). It's that the clone using the stick at the same time removes one of the most interesting elements of Wukong: the synergies you can build for with your clone using a gun and you using melee, or vice versa. One of, if not the foundational idea for the clone, from a game design perspective, is to open that space to the players to design a build to leverage it. Unfortunately, that build space then goes away almost entirely when players active Primal Fury, as it forces players to either activate it and then not use it, or lose the new and unique build space. Neither of these options are good from a game-design perspective, and it really should be addressed.
  6. I posted this in another thread, but I figure I'll post it here as well since there's probably a marginally better chance of DE eyes landing on it here, and I do think this could help them a bit. Having put a few hours in with Newkong now, doing a broad range of content, I feel like I've got a fairly decent grasp on the rework, both the highs and the low, and I'm gonna lay out my feedback for DE here. Sorry if I end up word-vomiting a bit. To start off, I think this rework is largely quite well done. It's created a cohesive, synergistic kit out of a single button and a couple of half-baked ideas, while also staying true to the themes of the Warframe. That isn't easy, and DE (and, to my understanding, especially Pablo) should be lauded for pulling it off. But not all of it came out quite the way they wanted, methinks, and there's some rough edges that could do with sanding down. I hope my feedback here could be of use to them in that endeavor. Now, let's get right into it. I'm going to go through each individual ability, starting with his passive, and lay out my thoughts, along with suggestions for improvements: 5 Levels of Immortality High-Level Feedback: From a purely mechanical perspective, this is absolutely fine. Passives, as a general rule, are not hugely impactful, and this one fits right in, power-level wise, with most; 97% of the time it won't proc even once, let alone 3 times, but when it does, it's generally modestly helpful. Better yet, that moment when it procs, when you go "I just died! But I live!" is quite solid, it feels very much like Nidus' and that's a high compliment. However, at the same time, it just doesn't feel very good. What comes next is just... awkward. The few seconds after that moment are either you being an unstoppable god or feeling screwed because you're not an unstoppable god, and giving RNJesus the power to determine that never feels good. It feels like a punishment half the time, not a reward, as all your abilities should, and the disconnect makes it less than enjoyable. Similarly, running out of charges on it and finally dying just ends up feeling frustrating, because your passive is just gone entirely. This can create a negative feedback loop where, for whatever reason, you screwed up and died a few times, and then suddenly you don't have any of your passive's effects at all. In essence, you get punished for using your passive, and that doesn't feel great, no matter which way you slice it. TL;DR Pros: Surviving when you were supposed to die feels great Power level is in-line with other passives, on average Strong thematic tie to Sun Wukong and the Journey to the West Cons: Heavily random effects hamper enjoyment a fair amount Limited charges can create a negative feedback loop Suggestions: 5 Levels of Immortality has some problems, but nothing conceptual or deep-seated mechanically. It just needs to dial down the RNG and, like Nidus', have some means of regaining charges during a mission, and in my view, both of these can be solved by embracing the "trickster" element of Sun Wukong. I would take this passive and change it to: With this change, the core functionality is entirely intact, Wukong gets to show off his immortal bonafides, but the RNG elements are removed, both the lows and the highs, and the arbitrary limit of 3 is removed in favor of "if you can kill fast enough, you can use your passive infinitely", which replaces the existing negative feedback loop and failure spiral with a positive feedback loop. Conclusions: On the whole, I think this passive is very good, and a huge improvement over Wukong's original. It just needs some minor cleanup and it'll be fantastic. Celestial Twin High-Level Feedback: This ability is really neat conceptually, and again fits really well with Wukong's theme. In addition, the way Wuclone uses the opposite weapon type Wukong does is a truly inspired idea that has a lot of potential for builds (the low-hanging fruit here is a high-status gun with a bunch of damage types paired with Condition Overload on a melee weapon). It really is an excellent idea and in my experience it even tends to work fairly well. The clone does some serious work, especially if you kit him out appropriately, more than enough so to make up for the fairly derpy AI managing it, and if the player micromanages it as well, then it really wrecks face. Unfortunately, there's some niggling annoyances, and bugs, that tarnish the experience somewhat. There's no real mechanical or conceptual issues with it, just rough edges that need polishing before it really shines. For example, Wukong activating Primal Fury causes both Wukong and Wuclone to be running around with a melee weapon. This breaks the fundamental promise made by the opposite-weapon-type functionality, and means you can't take advantage of one of the basic design pillars of this Warframe while using the other pillar. It limits the player's creative space for no real reason, and it hurts me in my soul to see. There's also a number of bugs regarding weapon selection, I've seen Wuclone stuck on using a gun even while I have a gun out, or using melee at the same time as me, or Wuclone only ever using my primary weapon instead of the secondary I had out a second ago, etc, but I'm sure those'll get fixed in the coming weeks. TL;DR Pros Extremely good concept with lots of potential for build diversity and depth Powerful enough to overcome AI deficiencies Cons Buggy, though far from game-breakingly so Aforementioned build diversity potential nearly totally eliminated while Primal Fury is active Suggestions: Celestial Twin is actually in a pretty good spot right now. All it needs is for Wuclone to stick to its core mechanics when Primal Fury is activated. Allow Wuclone to use guns while Wukong is beating people with Ruyi Jingu Bang, and be able to pull out its own Iron Staff if Wukong starts shooting baddies without deactivating Primal Fury (or in other words, treat Primal Fury the same as Wukong's normal melee weapon) and fix the bugs and this ability will be basically perfect (with its only remaining flaw being a need for spectre AI improvements). Conclusions: So close to being great that it physically pains me that it stumbled as hard as it did right at the end. A single fairly minor tweak would make this ability amazing. Cloudwalker High-Level Feedback: This ability is awesome. It's a fantastic tool for both movement and survival that, while not nearly as flashy as the rest of Wukong's new kit, is the workhorse that quietly allows serious work to be done. It's the real meat and potatoes of Wukong's survivability, as well as an excellent movement and CC ability. It can take a bit of getting used to, and I still occasionally end up getting trapped on random decorations/map elements because of how fast Wukong moves as a cloud, but once you get used to it, it's pretty excellent all around. The only real issue with it is that it's buggy, especially with regards to attacking while it's active. I've seen everything from randomly teleporting 40+m laterally to the game refusing to attack at all, and pretty much everything in between. I'm only able to successfully attack out of the cloud without major issue maybe once in every 5-6 tries, and I don't think I've ever managed it without any issue at all. It's fairly reliable when used purely for movement, but attacking out of it definitely has some issues. TL;DR Pros Excellent workhorse ability that drives the bulk of Wukong's survivability Extremely good mobility Cons Has a small learning curve, as the raw speed can cause collision issues until you learn to adjust Very buggy with regards to attacking out, to the point I don't even bother trying anymore Suggestions: Just fix the bugs, that's really it. Maybe also consider adding a "slow" mode to it somehow (a sprint toggle is the first thing to come to mind) to allow for more precise maneuvering, but that's far from necessary, player skill will accommodate it soon enough. Conclusions: Excellent ability all around, good job DE. Defy High-Level Feedback: This is another awesome ability. There's very little bad about it and a lot of really good things. It's a pretty decent thematic tie to Sun Wukong, as "Whatcha got bro?! Come at me!" basically defines him for much of the Journey to the West, and is excellent mechanically. It's a perfect "oh-S#&$" button, that does respectable damage and synergizes with Celestial Twin extremely well. On the whole, I think this is very well done all around. My only meaningful complaint is that it's a bit too easy to misread incoming damage (or, more often, a party member comes swooping in and murders the dudes you were about to taunt) and overwrite a fairly new really high armor buff with a super low armor buff. TL;DR Pros Extremely strong thematic link to Sun Wukong Very well-designed ability that synergizes well with Celestial Twin Cons Rapid changes during battle can neuter the ability to a sometimes extreme degree Suggestions: What I'd like to see for Defy is a change so that if you recast it while the armor buff is up, it will only overwrite your armor buff if the new one is equal-to-or-better. For example, if I dive into a group of enemies and Defy and get a 1500 armor stack and wipe them out, then 4 seconds later try to do it again, but right as I hit Defy, the Rhino in the party hits stomp and I take zero damage, I should still have my 1500 armor buff for another 21 seconds, instead of a 50 armor buff for 25. And then, if I hit Defy a third time 10 seconds after that and take enough damage for 1500 armor again, I should emerge with a 1500 armor buff for 25 seconds. I'm fully in agreement that Wukong shouldn't be able to refresh the duration of an existing buff, but it's simply too easy for teammates to (accidentally or otherwise) screw Wukong out of his buff, and that buff is a pretty big chunk of his ability to not be one-shot, so a change like this would be very much appreciated. Conclusions: Excellent ability, but a bit too dependent on your team not using crowd-control or overwhelming amounts of murder to be truly effective. It could do with being a bit less reliant on Wukong's team catering to him. Primal Fury High-Level Feedback: This is a really fun ability; the exalted weapon has roughly the same reach as God and the combos are a lot of fun, both to play and watch. It's a treat all around, not to mention that it can be quite effective as well with the right build. There's a good mix of damage and reach combos and, aside from a couple small niggles, the new combo system plays really well. The rework has really brought it up to, well, par. It's not an exceptional exalted weapon, but it's a solid B+, and I'm quite fond of it. That said, Primal Fury is hampered somewhat by its anti-synergy with Celestial Twin, where Wuclone is rendered incapable of using guns while this is active. In addition, there's a minor niggling annoyance with the right-click combos, as those always end with Wukong pulling his gun out, because you're aiming, and it just doesn't feel all that great. It's not a huge problem or anything, but it's constant and that makes it an annoyance. It will become something of a problem, however, if Celestial Twin is ever fixed, as that would change Wuclone's weapon unintentionally, and that could potentially cause problems, depending on the build. TL;DR Pros Powerful exalted weapon that's been brought up to in-line with most other exalted weapons. It's no Excalibur, but it's very solid and a good central pillar for the Warframe to rely on New combo system is well-implemented and it's quite satisfying to use Visually very nice, though it can be a bit spastic with a Volt or Wisp speed buff Cons Anti-synergizes with Celestial Twin, which discourages melee-focused builds from using it New combo system has some minor QOL issues Suggestions: Fix Celestial Twin to treat Primal Fury properly as a melee weapon and have Wuclone use guns while Wukong hits people with his big stick. Primal Fury really needs to have that synergy and build-design space, as it's a big part of Wukong's new kit and it's endlessly frustrating to not have it on Wukong's defining weapon. I'd also suggest an across-the-board change to the current melee system, where right-click/ADS while melee is out does not pull out your gun, and instead just zooms slightly with your melee weapon still out, while left-click/fire while melee is out behaves the way it currently does, and in addition, hitting F with your melee out will switch back to the gun you were using before entering melee, not switch to the other gun you weren't using. It's not a huge problem, but melee as a whole, and with Primal Fury in particular, would feel a lot better with a change like this. Conclusions: Very good rework on the whole. It's great as a stand-alone ability, but is held back by anti-synergy with the other core element of Wukong's new kit. Patching that hole would make it truly fantastic. So there we are, my review after probably about 8-10 hours playing the new Wukong. I think this was a really good rework that doesn't really have any foundational issues, but there are still a couple pretty big holes in the framework. If DE can fill those in, Wukong will likely be by far my favorite Warframe, finally dethroning Nidus. I hope this was helpful toward that end, if anyone from DE ever reads this.
  7. 1) Cloudwalker was changed because, as DE has made abundantly clear, passive frames are not how they want the game to be; they want all the frames to be active to one degree or another, and Wukong was brought from basically the most passive to being towards the top of most active. 2) Mostly I'm arguing that the original form of Cloudwalker was boring. It was slow, ponderous, almost entirely passive, and thoroughly non-interactive. The change fits much better with both his new kit and DE's general design philosophy and vision for the game.
  8. I'm not seeing how the augment has been made useless? It gives 14 seconds of invisibility to nearby party members when you use it. It was never great, because the invisibility breaks on damage (I assume it still does, haven't tested it though), but the same functionality still exists. As for staying in Cloudwalker for 40 seconds: Why? What purpose would that serve? It's a movement tool now, nothing more or less, unlike before where it was literally useless.
  9. It does not drain energy. It takes a very small energy cost (25 base) to enter Cloudwalker and nothing more. It's just a normal duration-based ability now, just with a short duration.
  10. Not so much "delayed" as "released separately from the rework". I'm not sure why they released the rework early (it's buggy enough that I'm reasonably confident they rushed it out for some reason, and that's why the skin didn't release with it), but they did. On the dev workshop stream from 2 days ago, Rebecca said "30% chance it's coming this week", while Pablo said "no chance for this week", so it's likely coming sometime within the next 2-3 weeks, but that's the closest we've got to a timeline for it. It actually works surprisingly well. With how fast you move in it, you don't need any more time than that; as long as you even vaguely try to move, you'll be healed to full from any amount and be able to get almost anywhere you could see when you triggered the ability (exceptions for plains and vallis, obv). The duration seems short in the context of his old kit, but the rework changed it fundamentally and it fits quite well now. His new kit is really quite hectic in comparison to the old, with jumping in and out of both defy and cloudwalker pretty regularly, all while you swing a big stick around.
  11. The combos, primarily. Instead of the old standy of hitting buttons with pauses spread between to differentiate the combos, it instead relies on you using movement and aiming keys to determine which combo you're performing. Personally, I like the new combos with Primal Fury. There's a bit of jank where the right-click combos end and then you pull your gun out which feels kinda weird, but with the way melee works now that doesn't actually get in the way of anything so it's a relatively minor issue.
  12. I love his theme and style, but never really got all that into the Defy build, so I really like what I've seen of the new Wukong. All of the ability changes seem to be pretty good. I'm mildly concerned that there'll be some consistency issues with Defy, but at the same time, it doesn't have a cooldown and the only time you'd need the max armor reduction is when you can pretty easily get it, so as long as the energy economy isn't a huge issue it shouldn't be a significant problem. Only way to tell would be to try it though. That said, I'm not a fan of the passive. I like it on a theoretical level, it fits quite well thematically, but the core mechanic leans far too heavily into RNG IMO. It ranges from amazing to completely worthless, without much in the way of middle ground, and that just doesn't sit right with me. I'd much prefer instead something with more consistency, and I'd gladly sacrifice the potential highs for it. And really, the perfect solution is right there. All it'd take is to ditch the buffs entirely and replace it with something like "If Wukong dies with a Wuclone active, the Wuclone swaps location and health values with Wukong, up to Wukong's maximum health. Afterwards, Celestial Twin cannot be used for 20 seconds." Basically, make it so that Wukong can't die if he has a clone up, as the clone would swap places with him and take the hit instead, but then leave Wukong vulnerable until the cooldown's finished. Doubly so since it would drop Wukong at wherever the clone was, which could very easily be elbow deep in a big pile of enemies.
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