HexOmega111x

I agree and the things you say in your posts are interesting. Unfortunately, I can't express myself in this language as well is I want so it forces me to stick with the basics. All that to say that I always enjoy reading you. Even when I disagree. Yes. I never expressed my position on the choice I think they should make, so, to make it simple this time, I will just say that if they should do something about it one day, the best thing they can do is to take them off for everyone.

I agree. Lol, I will try to remember that expression.

Am I that bad in English that you don't understand that I'm not the one saying that the game is too hard and it should be easier? It is not even about you. Again, everything is about the OP reasons for this request. You don't, me neither, the OP does. It was not perfect but some players liked it. The fact is that a feature like nightwave can't please the whole community but there is a difference between making it less grindy and making it trivial. But that's totally subjective of course. I' m not the one saying that it is. So we agree. Just try to convince the OP about that.

Yes, 100% agree with that. But when I take 2k standing, it is just an exemple. It can be MR 7/8 or above. 8k or 10k per day is not that much when you spend them on trials and errors. But this is not a major argument for this topic, we are just arguing with each other now but I will remind you that the initial argument from the OP was: the standing grind made easier and it's not fair. That's the center element of this topic. I agree, DE could have simply added the new baits. As an alternative. They didn't, they changed everything. And the reason why I argue against the idea of giving them back is because of the reason why OP wants them back. Everything is already easier but not enough it seems. He got tons of ressources without having to look for them, everything is cheaper, you don't have to craft a lot of things but it is not enough. I don't want to promote this trend of players asking to make everything easier. This is happening with almost every aspects of the game, with every game mode, every grind or farming. Look at few recent changes. Arbitration, even if I like it, we are far from the original idea. Nightwave was far from perfect, but it will be a joke now. Cetus was considered as a chore and look what they did with Fortuna. They just applied the changes to make everything easier to Fortuna while they were working on it and started to make those changes on Cetus right after Fortuna launch. Fortuna is the result of the complains about Cetus and Cetus just had to wait for te same treatment. Look at all the complains about the game being too hard and just add this one to the list. If they just had replaced the BPs without any other changes, this discussion would have been totally different, we would certainly be on the same side. Maybe you simply don't care about all that, and it's your right of course but I do. It wouldn't be a game changer that much to have those BPs back, it wouldn't change nothing for me but everytimes DE answer positively to that kind of request, it reinforce the players on their idea that they can ask for anything and hurt this game a bit more every times. They don't realy care about the game, things must be easy, that's all. @Steel_Rook I just made this post as a reply to both of you. Not to argue back point by point. Just to explain why I am against it from a personal point of view and not with practical arguments. I agree with everthing you say but I think that even if we are arguing with each other on the same topic, I'm not sure that we are talking about the same thing. I think that the reason why I started to argue since the other tread has been lost in the middle of our discussion.

Indeed, what matters is what they have in common, the ressources. Yes but then you can just say "they trivialize rep farming so why not trivialize it even more". Why not make them drop arcane directly in this case? This is probably the only thing almost everyone agree with. This game is overwhelming for new players. Do you realy think that they will all look for informations to know what is the best to use? Can't you image a player looking at the BP, thinking "hey, I can make 20 baits for 2500 standing (whatever the price was, I don't remember) why would I buy 1 for 400? " Until he realize that he must fish to craft next baits and so forth and then chose to buy pre made baits. But he will still have spend a lot of standing for nothing. I say a lot because new player and their 2k daily cap like the OP already consider few hundred standing like a waste. This kind of situation may happen, this is not about intelligence and you know it. Yes but again, it's about new players and their idea that BPs would make things easier. "Make it equal for everyone". Of course for us the choice is easy, we know exactly what we are doing and we don't care about the grind anymore. New players will also be able to use that system at best for their needs at some point and it will make everything way too easy for them. Just remember that they reduced they cost if everything, ressources and standing included. Many players already stock piles of fishes for extra daily standing. If they make it even more easy what will be the point of this affinity system then? If DE give them more means to get easy standing, they will have to change the cost of all the other items too. We can agree that DE makes everything easier but until what point? What will be the next idea that we will accept just because it's already trivialized so why not even more?

I think you answered your own question in your second paragraph. And I agree, those activities do not realy fit into a game like warframe. Even if I like that kind of things, it is not the real spirit of this game. And we can add that, maybe, DE realized that if they want to introduce more of that type of content, it would be way to much work. The reason why they made Fortuna economy different and changed poe to this model. Easier for them to make and easier and more enjoyable in the spirit of the game for us. Damn, double quote. I tried to expose the reasons why I think that this is a bad idea to ask to have those BPs back but I don't have a clear opinion on why we still have them. Maybe DE took into account the fact that we had to put a lot of standing and effort to buy them and found more legit to let us use them if we want. It will not affect our grind because if we have them it means that we did that grind already and the new baits are easier to use for new players anyway. And even if they decided to refund the standing cost of the BP to those who bought them, they can not refund the ressources and the time we spent. They made them sellable for 100k credits. They had multiple options and they came with this one. I don't know if it was the best thing to do. I guess it could be another topic. Ah, and yes, about the pharoma and the luminus dye I agree totally. They could even include them as a default mechanism in every bait. If they wanted to make everything easier or funnier, it could have been a cool thing to do.

It looks like you missed the point and it make me think that you did not read the previous tread from the OP guy nor this one entirely. The OP guy main reason for making those treads is that it is not fair. And not a single time he took into account the other aspects of the Cetus economy. Note that he is also a new player and therefore he doesn't know much about all that yet and certainly nothing about it pre revision. If you did read everything, you should have notice that everyone was arguing around the main topic only, the bait BP. It was then simply a reminder to push this topic to include more into this discussion. You just input motives in your interpretation that I didn't have but well, we can all be wrong sometimes. Exploiter gives standing for little Duck while the thumpers are giving materials for Ostron standing or item crafting. Not exactly the same story. What we can compare to the exploiter are the eidololons. Exploiter is giving toroid and eidolons are giving shards. One is for huge amount of standing and the other a huge amount of focus and Quills standing but they are both unrelated to the main faction of their respective open world. Exploiter also give ressources but thumpers do not give any toroid alike item for standing so they do not impact the same things. And then, if they give us back the baits BPs with the baits we currently have, fishing will be even more easy than it ever was, earn much more standing and if you combine that with every ressources we can have from thumpers or Exploiter (let's talk about both open world), the standing grind would become a piece of cake. They can just remove it from the game and let us pick few random items every day. Because you have to take into account that they reduced the standing cost for every items. Or, another possibility, you will have new players who will buy those BPs and soon realize that it is easier to simply by the baits themself and realize they just wasted their precious standing. You can not consider the baits BP without taking everything else into account. And we are back to my initial intention in my previous post. A Or B or A And B? Because what the OP want is A and B. And that's why I keep talking about everything else. And I like that fishing mini game too, even mining. I'm also that kind of player. I'm not against the idea itself, this is not simply about being for it or against it.

Yes, so you don't even have to fish at all with that logic. You will not kill few thumpers and use the ressources to craft baits and go back fishing to get the ressources you need for crafting. You will use those ressources to craft immediately, I suppose. They added conservation to the plains because they unified both Cetus and Fortuna economy. They released conservation on the plains after the main economy revision but that revision included the conservation already, just like Fortuna. They are identical. So yes, they would have to redefine the cost and the affinity profit. Unless they don't care at all about those economy which I doubt as they putted all that work into it for the revision already. OK, if I follow you in that reasoning, it means that once more, they had to nerf it because players did use it to skip every other parts of the open world? But this is not the real reason. If it was the reason, they would just have reduce the affinity gain per fish. They reduced the ressources cost and made them easier to get and then made fishing less useful. This is maybe a less diabolical reason. And so, in the end, if they introduced more means to get more affinity easely and reduced the cost of everything, what are we exactly talking about here?

Because they made it work like it works for Fortuna? And if OP think that buying BPs will cost him too much standing. He should take into account the fact that he will have to spend much less affinity for everything else because they reduced the cost for ressources and standing for everthing. Ex: 100k standing for a t3 arcane versus 125k standing + the resources and the time to craft them one by one. How is this affecting its standing grind? Will he be mad about that too? I'm surprised that most of you here think that the Cetus economy changes concern bait BPs only. It is not just reintroduce the BPs, they will have to balance the whole Cetus economy again as it will influence the standing costs again. And then what? Change how it works for Fortuna too? This is the second tread about this from OP guy. And even if he changed its approche and made it more a fun based argument instead of a "justice for all" propaganda, he should also realize that it is much more complicated than a bait BPs history. But I agree with the argument that it changed the immersion aspect for those who like a more ressources management aspect of a game.

And you repeat it again and again. Just reduce the ability range (which is now 15/20/22/25m and up to 58m!! with a range mod) to 1. Just change the value of a variable. Or change a variable to a constant by calling a different function depending on the toggle position. Just like for any option in fact. Something they already do one way or another, depending on the ability level or the mod equiped. I am not a genius but I'm sure that it will not be the catastrophe you portrayed in all your posts. A bit of works, sure, but the trillions of bugs would exists in your head only. Those who like to end a mission before they start it will still enjoy their speed runs while the others will be able to play as they want without having to explain so many times in these forums why they simply want to play at the speed they chose. But... see you later on these forums once again to see the volt speed partisans explain how selfish it is to make them wait at the end of a mission they wanted so hard to end faster. Right?

For you. Some of us just like to play the game.

Yes of course, I join a mission to spend my time doing backflips.

Well, I wasn't around at that time, you know this game better than I do. But what is strange then is that some recent moves from DE tent to show that they are struggling to found a better balance. Like if they realise now that they crossed the line. The last exemple to date is the arcanes change. Which was initiated with Fortuna. It is hard to understand DE on a global picture but what I know for sure is that they always want to make things good or right. As I see it, the decisions they made in the past were the decisions that made warframe the awesome game it is today. Indeed, it have a lot of flaws. It is a mess in its structure and this is maybe why they have a hard time to found a way to maintain an identity to something that is nothing else than a lot of different layers they glued together with some lore tricks. That said, I realy love this game despite all that. I think that the community should prepare itself to face many other changes that will not please them because this is the only way for DE to rebalance the game. Layers after layers.

Yes, interesting again. But this is exactly what warframe is and has always been. If you express it that way, it means that this is how you feel the game or how some game mechanics prevents you to have a different approach of it. This is definitely not about who is right or who is playing the game in a wiser manner. But from DE perspective, I can understand that they want to give more meanings to the other tools they give to the players. They are just making it the wrong way. Sometimes. And sometimes players are overreacting. I can't imagine that this itzal nerf will ruin your entire open world experience. Now, I hope that they will not stop there and enhance or increase the usefulness of the archwing feature in a more global way for the open world areas. Itzal is just a part of it after all.

Very interesting post but you end it with that. You have as many options as you have different archwings and as many possible choices as you are able to imagine /create your own game experience. All other archwings are still faster than k-drive that is itself faster than going on foot. Are the few seconds that you gain with itzal the only point that makes players chose the itzal instead of any other possibility? If this is the case, this is more the representation of the players mindsets and the way they play games today than a real lack of alternatives. I don't need itzal to enjoy vallis or poe. I never use itzal and I create a different game experience each time I enter poe or vallis with all the other archwings. The Itzal case is once again the prove that the way players are playing games today is more about how to not play the game and make everything fast and easy. They enter a mission and just look for the way to end it as fast as possible with nothing between point A and point B. More options will be mandatory if they want to make things enjoyable for that kind of players. I agree on that.