HexOmega111x

Prices for the frames from the game market include the value of all the ressources you should use to craft them. That's what you realy buy. Nothing to compare with the price set by players based on the value they give to the time they spend farming or the rarity of an item.

Right, I did not think about that. New players are not concerned at all. It's realy hard to find a legit reason to this complain.

Yes, I am. You are complaining about something you can't get right now when you have tones of other things waiting for you. And first, loot all the parts and the BP from the new boss. And once you will not be able to craft it because you don't have the ressources, come back here to complain. Or maybe not, just be patient...

Comon. New players have tones of things to do and any of the stuff they need nitains to craft will disappear. They can still play without wisp and they have 36 other frames to farm. You are making a problem out of nothing.

Yes but I was just asking to be sure that he is complaining about something he needs and doesn't have and not about something he doesn't have and doesn't need yet.

Some have enough nitains, others don't. If you don't, do everything else you can do in the game while nitain are coming back. Just stop complaining, it's a bad habit.

You already get the 3 parts and the BP drop from the new boss?

Warframe is about power. For me Warframe is closer of an hack'n slash than a pure shooter. I want to kill bunch of ennemies in no time. I don't think that trying to make warframe a more tactical fps like game is the right answer to the difficulty/end game topic. Warframe don't need to be more diffult. Give us an elite version of the start chart once we unlock all the nodes, with the same scaling method than the original one. Warframes are slaughter machines so make everything more crazy. I still enjoy the game as it is, I don't care about all the difficulty threads but for me, if DE must follow someone footsteps, it should be their own from few years back because warframe already have what it needs, they just don't use it.

I agree and the things you say in your posts are interesting. Unfortunately, I can't express myself in this language as well is I want so it forces me to stick with the basics. All that to say that I always enjoy reading you. Even when I disagree. Yes. I never expressed my position on the choice I think they should make, so, to make it simple this time, I will just say that if they should do something about it one day, the best thing they can do is to take them off for everyone.

I agree. Lol, I will try to remember that expression.

Am I that bad in English that you don't understand that I'm not the one saying that the game is too hard and it should be easier? It is not even about you. Again, everything is about the OP reasons for this request. You don't, me neither, the OP does. It was not perfect but some players liked it. The fact is that a feature like nightwave can't please the whole community but there is a difference between making it less grindy and making it trivial. But that's totally subjective of course. I' m not the one saying that it is. So we agree. Just try to convince the OP about that.

Yes, 100% agree with that. But when I take 2k standing, it is just an exemple. It can be MR 7/8 or above. 8k or 10k per day is not that much when you spend them on trials and errors. But this is not a major argument for this topic, we are just arguing with each other now but I will remind you that the initial argument from the OP was: the standing grind made easier and it's not fair. That's the center element of this topic. I agree, DE could have simply added the new baits. As an alternative. They didn't, they changed everything. And the reason why I argue against the idea of giving them back is because of the reason why OP wants them back. Everything is already easier but not enough it seems. He got tons of ressources without having to look for them, everything is cheaper, you don't have to craft a lot of things but it is not enough. I don't want to promote this trend of players asking to make everything easier. This is happening with almost every aspects of the game, with every game mode, every grind or farming. Look at few recent changes. Arbitration, even if I like it, we are far from the original idea. Nightwave was far from perfect, but it will be a joke now. Cetus was considered as a chore and look what they did with Fortuna. They just applied the changes to make everything easier to Fortuna while they were working on it and started to make those changes on Cetus right after Fortuna launch. Fortuna is the result of the complains about Cetus and Cetus just had to wait for te same treatment. Look at all the complains about the game being too hard and just add this one to the list. If they just had replaced the BPs without any other changes, this discussion would have been totally different, we would certainly be on the same side. Maybe you simply don't care about all that, and it's your right of course but I do. It wouldn't be a game changer that much to have those BPs back, it wouldn't change nothing for me but everytimes DE answer positively to that kind of request, it reinforce the players on their idea that they can ask for anything and hurt this game a bit more every times. They don't realy care about the game, things must be easy, that's all. @Steel_Rook I just made this post as a reply to both of you. Not to argue back point by point. Just to explain why I am against it from a personal point of view and not with practical arguments. I agree with everthing you say but I think that even if we are arguing with each other on the same topic, I'm not sure that we are talking about the same thing. I think that the reason why I started to argue since the other tread has been lost in the middle of our discussion.

Indeed, what matters is what they have in common, the ressources. Yes but then you can just say "they trivialize rep farming so why not trivialize it even more". Why not make them drop arcane directly in this case? This is probably the only thing almost everyone agree with. This game is overwhelming for new players. Do you realy think that they will all look for informations to know what is the best to use? Can't you image a player looking at the BP, thinking "hey, I can make 20 baits for 2500 standing (whatever the price was, I don't remember) why would I buy 1 for 400? " Until he realize that he must fish to craft next baits and so forth and then chose to buy pre made baits. But he will still have spend a lot of standing for nothing. I say a lot because new player and their 2k daily cap like the OP already consider few hundred standing like a waste. This kind of situation may happen, this is not about intelligence and you know it. Yes but again, it's about new players and their idea that BPs would make things easier. "Make it equal for everyone". Of course for us the choice is easy, we know exactly what we are doing and we don't care about the grind anymore. New players will also be able to use that system at best for their needs at some point and it will make everything way too easy for them. Just remember that they reduced they cost if everything, ressources and standing included. Many players already stock piles of fishes for extra daily standing. If they make it even more easy what will be the point of this affinity system then? If DE give them more means to get easy standing, they will have to change the cost of all the other items too. We can agree that DE makes everything easier but until what point? What will be the next idea that we will accept just because it's already trivialized so why not even more?

I think you answered your own question in your second paragraph. And I agree, those activities do not realy fit into a game like warframe. Even if I like that kind of things, it is not the real spirit of this game. And we can add that, maybe, DE realized that if they want to introduce more of that type of content, it would be way to much work. The reason why they made Fortuna economy different and changed poe to this model. Easier for them to make and easier and more enjoyable in the spirit of the game for us. Damn, double quote. I tried to expose the reasons why I think that this is a bad idea to ask to have those BPs back but I don't have a clear opinion on why we still have them. Maybe DE took into account the fact that we had to put a lot of standing and effort to buy them and found more legit to let us use them if we want. It will not affect our grind because if we have them it means that we did that grind already and the new baits are easier to use for new players anyway. And even if they decided to refund the standing cost of the BP to those who bought them, they can not refund the ressources and the time we spent. They made them sellable for 100k credits. They had multiple options and they came with this one. I don't know if it was the best thing to do. I guess it could be another topic. Ah, and yes, about the pharoma and the luminus dye I agree totally. They could even include them as a default mechanism in every bait. If they wanted to make everything easier or funnier, it could have been a cool thing to do.

It looks like you missed the point and it make me think that you did not read the previous tread from the OP guy nor this one entirely. The OP guy main reason for making those treads is that it is not fair. And not a single time he took into account the other aspects of the Cetus economy. Note that he is also a new player and therefore he doesn't know much about all that yet and certainly nothing about it pre revision. If you did read everything, you should have notice that everyone was arguing around the main topic only, the bait BP. It was then simply a reminder to push this topic to include more into this discussion. You just input motives in your interpretation that I didn't have but well, we can all be wrong sometimes. Exploiter gives standing for little Duck while the thumpers are giving materials for Ostron standing or item crafting. Not exactly the same story. What we can compare to the exploiter are the eidololons. Exploiter is giving toroid and eidolons are giving shards. One is for huge amount of standing and the other a huge amount of focus and Quills standing but they are both unrelated to the main faction of their respective open world. Exploiter also give ressources but thumpers do not give any toroid alike item for standing so they do not impact the same things. And then, if they give us back the baits BPs with the baits we currently have, fishing will be even more easy than it ever was, earn much more standing and if you combine that with every ressources we can have from thumpers or Exploiter (let's talk about both open world), the standing grind would become a piece of cake. They can just remove it from the game and let us pick few random items every day. Because you have to take into account that they reduced the standing cost for every items. Or, another possibility, you will have new players who will buy those BPs and soon realize that it is easier to simply by the baits themself and realize they just wasted their precious standing. You can not consider the baits BP without taking everything else into account. And we are back to my initial intention in my previous post. A Or B or A And B? Because what the OP want is A and B. And that's why I keep talking about everything else. And I like that fishing mini game too, even mining. I'm also that kind of player. I'm not against the idea itself, this is not simply about being for it or against it.