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Everything posted by DealerOfAbsolutes

  1. Easiest way to fix the disparity is for armor to not scale at all. Every 300 armor adds +100% ehp. A Grineer unit with 300 armor would have equivocal protection to a Corpus unit that maintains 1:1 ratio between health and shields as levels scale, with the caveat that health modifiers against flesh still apply because armor provides DR instead of covering health. The next thing on the cutting block would be Viral though. Before Sortie levels, Viral is already on par with Corrosive. By the time armor scales high enough for Corrosive's armor strip to be better than Viral's damage multiplication, we pair Viral with Slash. Though at the same time, if armor didn't scale, Slash would become the weakest dot of the bunch and arguably the worst IPS type.
  2. I just worry that this would create an innate element or slash meta and status weapons that use IP will be strictly inferior. Base damage, Crit only adding more of the base damage type would make elemental procs harder to proc on non-elemental weapons, which is the same issue as the old 4xIPS weighting unless you ditch all the Base damage mods to prevent the proc pool being diluted with IPS. This would hurt Puncture and Impact weapons while giving Slash and pure element weapons a comparative boon, unless armor scaling is removed. That's why I'm in favor of keeping the elements as a separate multiplier and lowering the bonuses of combined elementals. As I said, stacking all 4 elements is already suboptimal as diametrically opposed elements don't have synergy with each other. Elements already accrue opportunity costs after stacking 3. 100%+90%+90%+90%=370% 90/370=24% The third elemental mod only worth 24% in raw damage. To compare: +30% reload speed decreases shooting down time by 23%. In a sense, what we consider QoL mods are in fact DPS multipliers, but usually don't have the overtly huge numbers compared to what we consider mandatory. For example, Primed Tactical Reload or Ammo Stock is basically mandatory on the Exergis.
  3. I'm in favor of keeping Elements as its own multiplier, only to avoid headaches down the line when it comes to weapons with innate single elements which combo up with Elemental mods. For example, the gimmick of the Amprex is that it deals pure Electric damage. Throw on a single toxin mod and it combines into Corrosive. How would Base Damage factor into things if Elements were decoupled? More electric damage that the Amprex no longer has? Having an innate single element is also one of the benefits of Kuva weapons where players get away with running 1 less Element mod to get their desired combo. Besides, a lot of the Elemental combos were designed to have a conflict of interest with its diametrically opposed counterpart to dissuade you from throwing all 4 elemental mods: Corrosive + Blast Viral + Radiation Magnetic + Gas Blast is CC and getting Blast procs instead of Corrosive increased TTK. Radiation+Viral may be better against Alloy targets as Radiation's bonus gets to piggy back off of Viral's proc, but worse than pure Viral against a Ferrite unit due to the slower ramp up for Viral. Back when Gas dealt Toxin procs that bypassed Shields, building for Magnetic was a waste as there was no point in shredding Shields you were already ignoring. It's the same logic as to why Viral/Slash builds don't run Heat. Why Corrosive + Blast was dumb? If you are so against Elements being its own multiplier, same type Elemental mods could be made mutually exclusive with each other just like how the game doesn't let you put Point Strike and Critical Delay on the same build. For example, you woudn't be able to put a +90% Toxin mod with a +60/60 Toxin/Status mod
  4. Only issue is how elementals would be decoupled with everything else. Elementals not scaling with Crit, multi-shot and +Damage mods would mean that Crit, multi-shot and +Damage mods only add more of a weapon's base element, where additional elements would be diluted to non-existence. It would create a true dichotomy, where weapons built for Crit would be actively terrible at applying elemental procs due to all the damage dilution. My take is DE condenses all the multipliers into 2 distinct layers: Base Damage: Viral procs, Critical Multipliers, Base Damage mods, Arcanes. Elements: IPS mods, Elements, reworked Faction mods. Indirect multipliers like Multi-shot should be given an accuracy penalty so it's more even with Fire Rate which has the innate penalty of ammo economy + recoil. Stealth Damage Multiplier, Headshot Multiplier and the rest should be replaced with flat +100% Critical Chance, which would result in additive additions to Base Damage. Combined elements should be given the lowest bonuses to create diminishing returns for stacking elements. Combined Elements should be built for their proc, not upfront damage. Right now, stacking two 90% elements which individually have vulnerability bonuses of +25%, results in a 180% element with vulnerability bonus of +75%, literally increasing returns.
  5. I always thought that the combined elements having the highest bonuses was weird as it basically invalidated the point of weapons having an IPS spread in the first place. Have one +90% elemental and it has a +25% Bonus. Have two +90% elementals combine into a +180% element with a +75% bonus? They tend to have better procs to boot? For example, take a Sortie level Heavy Gunner with 6000 Ferrite armor which provides 95% Damage Reduction, reducing neutral damage types to 5% of its value. Imagine weapon that's 90% Puncture, 10% Impact, modded for 180% Corrosive. Puncture has a +25% bonus to Ferrite, Corrosive has a +75% bonus to Ferrite and Impact has a -25% to Cloned Flesh. Due to how armor class modifiers double dip, boosting damage by % and mitigating armor by %. Puncture deals 13.5% of its value of 90%, or 12.15% Base Damage as effective Damage. Impact deals 3.75% of its value of 10%, or 0.375% Base Damage as effective Damage. Corrosive deals 29% of its value of 180%, or 52.2% Base Damage as effective Damage In this case, the Corrosive portion (which is 64.2% of your real damage) constitutes 80.6% of your effective damage before bringing up Corrosive procs to the table. Corrosive strips 80% of armor at max stacks, reducing 6000 Ferrite armor to 1200, from 95% DR to 80% DR, which is another 4X Damage Boost. Base IPS spread on a weapon is basically irrelevant in Warframe unless you want to build for Slash procs. If the weapon in question was 100% Impact, +180% Corrosive. Impact deals 3.75% of its value of 100% or 3.75% Base Damage as effective damage. Corrosive deals 29% of its value of 180%, or 52.2% Base Damage as effective Damage In this case, Corrosive constituting 64.2% of your real damage is contributing 93.3% of your effective damage. Compared to this 100% Impact weapon with +180% Corrosive, the 90% Puncture/10% Impact only deals 15.6% more damage with the same build. The IPS distinctions might as well be flavor text because of the difference they make. If Corrosive had a +25% Bonus against Ferrite: Corrosive deals 7.8% of its value of 180%, or 14.04% Base Damage as effective Damage 180% Corrosive would constitute 53% of effective damage on the same weapon, but the 90% Puncture would contribute a significant 46.3% before Corrosive procs are brought to the table. I'm of the opinion that the Elements with the best procs (which are usually the combined elements) shouldn't have the best modifiers too as it just adds oil to the multiplier problem Warframe has.
  6. Agreed. DE needs to reduce the multiplier bloat because they can't keep track of them nor even have unique terminology for them, which is why every iteration of their new damage attenuation feels off. We have "+165% Damage" being multiplicative with "+55% Damage to Grineer". If something has to remain a multiplier because it can't be implemented another way, then it must come with a hefty caveat that entices players to use a QoL mod. Multi-shot is just free damage. Fire Rate on the other hand has legitimate drawbacks such as ammo economy and recoil. My suggestions: Critical Multiplier additive with Base Damage, a 4.4x Multiplier would be equal to +340% Damage Viral Procs additive with Base Damage, +325% Base Damage at max stacks All multi-Shot mods having equivocal -% Accuracy for every +% Multi-shot ala Split Flights Headshot Multiplier removed, replaced with +100% Flat Critical Chance on Headshot +30%/55% Faction Damage mods replaced with "+30%/55% Combined Elemental mods" All +75% resistance bonuses of Combined Elementals be reduced to +25% All +15% resistance bonuses of IPS increased to +25% Enemy armor shouldn't scale, enemy eHP should escalate linearly along with player damage
  7. He doesn't bash Warframe because it needs "100 hours to get to the good part", he's bashing the notion that such a thing is a valid argument in the first place. He praises the gameplay and admits that it's enough to get people hooked. 100 hours for the game to get good implies: early gameplay is just filler grind the rules of the game change to be better and more fun its where the plot finally picks up Which are all arbitrary barriers. Frankly, I think the first 100 hours of Warframe is where the game peaks and we keep playing because we are already invested. Warframe is like a roller coaster. In the beginning, the game is restrained: energy is hard to come by so new players gravitate to sacks of health (Rhino, Inaros) and dismiss squishy casters like Mag IPS matters because mods are limited, encouraging players to switch up weapons from planet to planet there are no reliable ways to recover health, so players are encouraged to play a little more conservatively Mid game, the restraints are removed: energy becomes a bit more plentiful, casters become more viable IPS stops mattering as players get access to combined elementals and run whatever weapons they want Players get access to reliable healing, players can play a bit more aggressively Late game, new restraints are added: energy is as available as tap water, just turn on the faucet, but we get a lot of enemies that are straight up immune to powers armor scaling gets so out of hand that only Viral/Slash or 100% armor strip matters when dealing with armor we play rocket tag with the enemies where everyone has to play a tank unless they are comfortable with abusing shield gating Beginning, Mid game and Late game players have power levels differing in the order of magnitudes, creating other problems. Beginners find that the entire squad is already waiting at extraction, which leaves them unprepared for higher levels as they didn't get to learn anything, creating Mid-game players who don't know how to take out Sortie Bosses Late game players find that every single new enemy (Condrix, Protea Quest, Deimos enemies, Orphix, Corpus Sisters) have some form of damage attenuation to put them on the same playing field as Beginners, but not only does this invalidate gear progression, it more importantly invalidates the knowledge of Base Systems they spent hours being acquainted with creating a really artificial experience
  8. All the Puncture secondaries are pretty lack luster IMO. They all need a buff. Strong Puncture primaries already run Viral + Hunter Munitions, and Puncture being additive with Viral would be a marginal buff for them. My idea for Puncture was that it would become a weaker Viral that can be paired with Corrosive because right now, Corrosive is pretty lackluster. The Tysis is a stronger secondary than many would assume based on its non-existent Crit stats, but is viable due to Viral + Corrosive.
  9. Considering the unvaulted weapons in question are Puncture based with an emphasis on status chance, DE could just buff Puncture. DE Employee 1: What should we do for Puncture? What's strong right now? DE Employee 2: Slash? DE Employee 1: We did that for Impact with Internal Bleeding. We don't want the IPS procs the same do we? DE Employee 2: Viral? DE Employee 1: It's lunch time. Guess it'll do. Copy and Paste, change a few numbers around..... Puncture NEW: The status effect of Puncture damage is Weakened. It causes the victim to take 60% more damage over 8 seconds. Subsequent procs add 10% more damage up to 150% in total after 10 stacks, with each proc refreshing the duration of all previous procs. Damage Bonus is additive with other bonuses from status effects like Virus (Viral) and Disrupt (Magnetic). Affected enemies will have a yellow aura.
  10. The issue is that the poorly planned systems simply detract from the fun gameplay. Complicated but shallow.
  11. Exactly. It has everything to do with Banshee. This entire thread is about DE overlooking Banshee in their damage attenuation and fear mongering that she'll be included in the next update.
  12. Or you know, armor shouldn't scale at all. Every 300 armor adds +100% ehp. 300 armor is equivocal to a unit maintaining a 1:1 ratio between health and shields. Of course, armored units should have way more than 300 as armored units are still vulnerable to health modifiers and armor modifiers double dip on them. But, armor not scaling would allow DE to maintain ehp ratios as levels scale up. Damage types would have static effectiveness, instead of bleed becoming better and better as it ignores armor scaling altogether. On the other hand, Viral would need to be nerfed to the ground, but that's just a matter of making it additive with Base Damage or lowering it's multiplier.
  13. This is exactly why damage attenuation feels so wonky. Reworking how everything scales would be easier than trying to get damage attenuation to work properly. At the very least, damage calculations would be simpler for both DE and players to keep track of. The majority of players already have trouble understanding the damage system as it is without damage attenuation.
  14. The real issue is that a lot of tactics the AI uses were created back when Warframe was more of a cover shooter. Take the Grineer for example, each unit has a purpose: Lancers hide behind cover, shooting the player in short bursts which deplete shields, forcing the player into cover Heavy Gunners are a lot tankier than Lancers, don't take cover and fire continuously, forcing the player into cover Butchers put pressure on players so they can't camp behind cover indefinitely Bombards use AOE weapons that ignore cover, making them a priority threat and players had to peek out from cover time to time to check the area for them These tactics worked because: stamina was limited, so players couldn't dodge indefinitely and actually needed cover melee was weak, so being surrounded was a guarantee to be downed (Skana had 35 Base Damage, no Blood Rush, no Body Count, no Stances) Nowadays: We got AOE weapons to blow Lancers out of cover Heavy Gunners and Bombards feel just as squishy Butchers exist only the fuel our ON KILL buffs, so we can run our +Damage Arcanes without Serration We don't have to worry about stamina, energy or cover, Waframes are now Bulldozers DE does try to address these issues with new enemies. The Nox specifically throws goop around to slow players down, while being much tankier than heavy gunners, but there are not enough enemies like him. DE could start throwing Rathuum Grineer into normal missions.
  15. Making everything scale linearly would be preferable to the wonky damage attenuation they are slapping on every new enemy.
  16. Reworking the NPE is a catch 22. As Warframe is free, everyone that is interested has probably already tried it. If the NPE turned them off, they won't come back regardless of how much reworking DE does.
  17. For normal content, building weaknesses for Corpus and Infested is overkill. Viral/Slash is so valued because armor scaling eventually outscales our raw damage. The other damage types don't have utility strong enough to compete with straight up damage multiplication against health. They probably need utility on par with Warframe powers or Operator schools. Suggestions; Magnetic: In addition to bonus damage against Shields, afflicted target sucks in enemies ala Exodia Hunt, 4.5m on first proc, 9m on 10th proc. Gas: In addition to dot, afflicted enemies are put into unalerted status. Blast: Knockdown, afflicted enemies have entire body treated as "head" in damage calculations. Puncture: In addition to dealing 30% less damage up to 75%, enemies take 60% more damage up to 150%. Additive with Viral procs.
  18. I think you're overhyping the potential backlash. There are always doom sayers who say Warframe's going to go under because: coptering removed Gas no longer triple dips onto stealth multipliers Chroma's damage buffed changed to be additive with Serration Maiming Strike is now useless Condition Overload no longer multiplicative, pure status melee is dead Corrosive no longer 100%, long live Viral/Slash Bring back 4xIPS priority because my Slash build is worthless 4x Corrosive Projection no longer 100% Acolyte mods moved to Deimos, my stockpile of Argon Scope is worthless! DE owes me money! 100% Status shotguns dead Rivens for new weapons start at the lowest disposition, Rivens are DEAD! S-curve scaling making the game too easy The silent casual majority moved on. Whether or not balancing is worth it or not doesn't matter because DE thinks it is. That's why they nerfed melee and are experimenting with damage attenuation since Scarlet Spear. Damage attenuation is literally stat squishing, but only on certain enemies. A more widespread, transparent stat squish isn't any more work and is more respectful to the majority of players because they won't be blindsided by some bullet sponge that doesn't follow the same rules as the rest of the game. Players who understand how damage works and do endurance runs in Warframe are a minority. The casual majority doesn't understand how damage works anyways and doesn't really care because shooting stuff is fun as long as TTK is reasonable until they hit a wall like the Wolf of Saturn Six and start crying on forums for a nerf instead of building for Radiation, using Shattering Impact or getting a Kavat. Having a more reasonable range of numbers planned out from the beginning means DE doesn't have to spend so much time nerfing and buffing things cyclically.
  19. The dichotomy is an illusion as they are both just damage multipliers multiplicative with each other. Crit immunity is just pseudo Damage Reduction against weapons built with Crit.
  20. The reality is that DE will never stop trying to combat it. Next update, maybe they'll decide Shield Gating is still not enough for Corpus to be on par with Grineer and decide that Shields should grant Critical Multiplier immunity. Any damage that hits a Shielded enemy will ignore the weapon's Critical Multiplier and assume a 1.0x Critical Multiplier.
  21. That doesn't stop DE from trying though. Corrosive used to be able to strip armor 100%. A Sortie Level Bombard with 6000 Alloy armor, 95% DR giving it a 20X health multiplier? Corrosive can take that 20X health multiplier away, letting you to effectively deal 20X damage. As armor scaled exponentially, player consensus was Status > Crit. No armor meant that all your damage was effectively True Damage. Now, Corrosive only strips up to 80%. Against 6000 armor, stripped to 1200, that's only 80% DR. 20X health multiplier reduced to a 5X health multiplier granting you 4X damage at max stacks which is an 80% nerf from what Corrosive was before and only gets worse as armor levels rise higher. This is weaker than Viral procs which give 4.25X. Better than Viral at higher armor levels, but at that point you pair Viral with Slash. The Corrosive cap was the biggest nerf in recent memory, yet everyone seems to have already forgotten about it. It makes making Critical Multiplier additive with Base Damage look like a baby's punch. Is Corrosive dead? Corrosive still has the +75% against Ferrite armor, giving a 1.75x boost against Ferrite and ignoring 75% of its value innately. At max stacks, Corrosive virtually bypasses 95% of Ferrite armor with a 1.75x boost. For that 1.75x boost to be negated, the remaining 5% of armor needs to grant DR of ~43% which is 225 remaining armor. In other words, 4500 initial armor. 4500 Ferrite armor is where the Old Corrosive and New Corrosive intersect in effectiveness against Heavy Gunners. Heavy Gunners sport this level of armor at around level 74. This coincides with the new gentler scaling past level 80, so new Corrosive ends up performing similarly to old Corrosive and lesser used damage types remain relevant for a bit longer. Of course, Steel Path modifiers threw all of this out the window. Viral got buffed, but Slash lost the 4x IPS priority. This doesn't balance out because Hunter Munitions and forced procs from stances remained untouched. So Viral/Slash became the go to against all armored enemies that were vulnerable to status. Corrosive got relegated to those handful of enemies with status immunity. Some enemies specifically have Viral immunity because DE realized they released another genie. Not to mention the travesty of what happened to Gas. Now DE is trying to bottle the genie by working on damage attenuation. The Condrix had it. Then the Protea quest had it. Deimos enemies have it. Orphixes had it. Corpus Sisters have it. Bone Widow was lackluster, so Orphixes had damage attenuation against Voidrig's ult. They gave us an overpowered toy, then immediately introduced enemies immune to it? Despite Corrosive getting nerfed, Gas getting gutted, Condition Overload getting nerfed twice, Blood Rush getting nerfed, every new enemy getting damage attenuation..... At this point, burn it all down. All the players that stopped playing because of nerfs at this point probably all have left. Now DE can't keep hemorrhaging the players that want balance.
  22. Damage attenuation is already the chainsaw. Instead of butchering the hedges into ugly shapes with the chainsaw, maybe its time to cut everything down and plant new hedges. Damage attenuation invalidates player progression. Old players deal damage indistinguishable from new players and plenty of weapons are invalidated. At least with a stat squish, older players still get to do noticeably more damage than new players. Additive damage is still more damage.
  23. Not to mention Ammo Mutation mods fit in the Exilus slot. AOE weapons basically get refunded their entire ammo pool after wiping a cluster with a single shot. A single mod giving high burst AOE DPS, but low sustained DPS weapons sustained DPS. Reload speed mods do the same thing for weapons with low reload speed, but they don't fit in the Exilus slot. Ammo Mutation as it exists is probably too powerful. Maybe instead of converting random ammo types off the floor into the correct one, it should simply increases the pickup efficiency of the correct ammo type?
  24. Not everyone is Goku. In a squad of 4, Goku's doing 90% of the damage while the other 3 are stuck tagging along. There's always a Krillin that always gets downed regardless of what's happening.
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