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Posts posted by atom

  1. 25 minutes ago, [DE]Megan said:

    Shrine of the Eidolon: Hotfix 22.13.2


    • Teralyst, Gantulyst and Hydrolyst now all drop Arcanes! 
      • All 3 Teralysts have a 100% chance of dropping an Arcane.
      • The variety of Arcanes have been spread out across all 3 variants and weighted according to the rarity of the Arcane and difficulty of the Teralyst variant. 
      • How you choose to defeat the Teralyst variants also attributes to the Arcane type/chance.

    thank you for the update. 

    will you consider limiting the arcane droppings to one per day from each of the teralysts? that could potentially avoid totally crashing the arcane market. which is what the declared intent was afaik.

    eagerly awaiting the arcane fashionframe buff by way of loadout binding that was teased. 

  2. 28 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:


    • Fixed being able to place two different waypoint markers by placing 1 each as your Warframe and your Operator. 


    thank you for the update! this really didn't need fixing tho it was very useful.

    also please consider tweaking the timers on bounties they are unbearably long.

    • Upvote 1

  3. 8 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

    That would make sense if DE was on the fence about punishing him and haven't acted. Seeing how they already have done something as punishment, it would be pointless for me to make an attempt like that, right?

    I simply do not like how people blindly vouch for a guy who was clearly in the wrong, all while he claims to be innocent and not responsible for things he did or influenced directly.

    All DE really needs is proof that he broke their agreements that are detailed in the Terms and EULA to issue a ban or punishment. He agreed to it like everyone else that is playing Warframe, so he is subject to it like everyone else, if he wants to enjoy Warframe's content.

    Again, i appreciated the drop rates and drop locations he provided. However, that script leak and other things that didn't bring about anything good, combined with his unapologetic attitude in Discord+elsewhere, does not make me feel sorry for him in the slightest.

    no one is blindly vouching here. nobody is 100% a saint we all apparently do questionable things at one point or another, DE as well.

    afaik he's already punished/banned from playing the game for breaking the TOS.

    the argument is his actions in the end were beneficial to the game and community (drop rates, weapon stats). i can argue the TWW script leak caused DE to rewrite a better version in the end. i can argue leaked pics built hype.

    having said that i also believe leaking artwork/scripts without DE's consent was wrong. however threatening legal action was a bit too much imho and i think it should only be used as a last resort after exhausting other means of communication and opportunities for cooperation which didn't happen.

    • Upvote 3

  4. 41 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

    Yes, but DE needs to put the time and money into transparency.

    are you trying to argue DE doesn't already have this in their game because the community picked up the slack? that stopped them putting time and money into it? you can't be serious.

    imho the issue is that a line was crossed and it forced them to take a different stand for understandable reasons. it's one of the "this is why we can't have nice things" type situations. i still have hope for going a more cooperative route.

    41 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

    Not if it's pulling the information directly from the game, kind of like the way it does with the relic system now. It would just be transmitting what exists

    oh like how the UI and patch notes are always accurate and we never had cases of screwed stats that got cleared due to extensive community testing and "data mining" :clem:

    • Upvote 1

  5. 1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

    You don't have to understand it, but it's the truth. 

    I think you misunderstand the situation and don't understand how database storage works. 

    I admitted that they may have made a mistake creating rivens because of the database issues it causes and I think they do need to rethink they way they work so it WON'T be such an issue for the database anymore, and I'm not sure what the solution is for that, but the fact it causes database issues is simply reality. 

    I'll give you a brief example: Say you take any non riven mod, like Serration. It only requires ONE place in the database. That's it. That means even if hundreds of thousands or even millions of people have a mod in their inventory, it only takes up one spot in the database, ONE, that's it. Everyone's inventory/drops of that serration can just point to that one spot in Warframe's database. 

    Now take riven mods. Even if you have two that are somehow exactly the same (which is incredibly statistically unlikely) they would still be stored separately in the database, because they are stored/created/unique to the players. So even each player having one single riven mod is ludicrously, exponentially higher drain than all of the current mods drain on the database combined. 

    Now imagine most players have fifteen, and start allowing the number to ramp up higher and higher, and you start to have a very serious problem that could get out of control fast. 

    You don't have to believe it, but it is the truth. The database issue is the reason the amount of rivens is limited. They are not lying to you. I'm sure they will do everything to optimize their storage and allow more, but they are doing so in good faith, because they have a tricky situation on their hands, rivens were not exactly well thought out. 

    your example proves my point that regular mods have an extremely low footprint therefore comparing rivens to them saying they take much more space is like saying a potato takes much more space than a grain of sand. that's true but don't tell me you can only hold 60 potatoes in your grocery store.

    unless you have 1st hand knowledge of how DE's database actually works your speculation is as good as mine.

    whatever the case i still feel we need more slots to cope with such a large class of weapons (melee) added to the pool.

  6. 33 minutes ago, Operative_Shift said:

    I actually think about it this way.. If Void hadn't been around, the community would've been in an uproar for information straight out of the gate, and pressed DE for a resource like this A LOT sooner. Had this resource NOT been available to us, for the sake of transparency (and also Canadian guilt lol) they would've had no choice but to create the site for us themselves several years ago. 

    Let's face it, both DE and the community used Void as a crutch. We should've been pressing the entire time the "datamines" were going on for an IN GAME resource, rather than having to seek things outside of game. 

    can you honestly say that with a straight face? *badumtss* .. the community have ALWAYS pressed DE for more transparency and more information about how the game works. 

    this happened organically out of necessity, saving time and money for DE.

    i don't even want to imagine how the wiki would look if it were solely in the hands of DE when they can barely handle patch notes. we would probably get information added with the same speed we get mag reworks. also we kinda need 3rd party verification since DE has a bad track record regarding accuracy in certain cases.

    don't get me wrong the game is amazing but how it's presented to the player is severely lacking in the UI. also i'm not convinced the wealth of information wiki has can ever fit comfortably in the game's UI and i don't mind going outside the game for it.

    • Upvote 5

  7. 1 hour ago, Tesseract7777 said:

    It's not really generosity, but trying to give people as much as they can get away with without overloading the database. Rivens were kind of not the greatest idea that way... they are a database storage nightmare. I can't even imagine how much the people at DE in charge of worrying about that stuff hate the stuffing out of rivens. 

    It's a matter of realism. DE doesn't really have the infrastructure to handle the database load. Even the people with sixty are a small minority because they pay for those slots, meaning the vast majority of people only have 15. This keeps the database load smaller and more manageable. 

    I understand why people want more rivens per person, and IMO the solution is simply to allow those who are willing to spend money to have more and more slots past 60. The vast majority of people still won't buy any extra slots, remaining at fifteen and keeping the load down. I can't imagine the small amount of outliers who would really want to pay for the slots and keep around more than 60 rivens, would really break their database. 

    Without paying, I don't think it should ever go past fifteen. People just need to manage their rivens. If someone is mostly F2P and barely even makes plat through trade, they really shouldn't need more than fifteen rivens for weapons across all their categories. Even that is almost excessive. 

    sry i don't buy that. i don't believe they are HUGE drain on the infrastructure why because rng stats? did anyone force them to make mods with rng stats? don't other older games already have unlimited rng items in them and run just fine?

    yes compared to normal mods they take up way more data but let's be real here the data for regular mods is most likely insignificant which would make rivens only slightly more demanding?

    i'm sry i don't believe one would put rng mods in a game with ever rising nr of items if it wasn't technically feasible. what's the point in the long run if you can't really sustain it? therefore i believe they will extend the limit as they add more weapons to the pool, or otherwise adjust riven mechanics.

    obviously they have to and should monetize aspects of it. storage space seems reasonable to me i only have gripes with the max capacity as after a point it's a terrible turnoff. heck i'd be buying rivens rn if i could but i reached 60 and i'm not letting go of the ones i have so i'm basically done with them.

    • Upvote 1

  8. 1 hour ago, Operative_Shift said:

    The Definition of Datamining from an ACTUAL Computer Engineer

    I'll just leave this here for ya'll to stew on. 

    And here's a shorter version, not from a Computer Engineer, but still covers the information about the ACTUAL definition of datamining. 


    Kthnxbai!! <3 <3

    whatever you want to call it, the actions of Void_Glitch and other "data miners" of providing information, without which we wouldn't have such a comprehensive wiki, vital to the game, also act as a "fact checker" for DE's Warframe. 

    don't be like a certain prez slandering ppl for showing the truth.

    yes there are aspects that i agree should not be leaked but i think cooperation could be a better path of achieving both transparency and data security.

    • Upvote 9

  9. 5 hours ago, Ceryk said:

    Won't happen. They've explained the situation and that they are already being extremely generous with the 60 cap. I can't remember the numbers they said, but basically one riven takes up like 100 times the space of a normal mod and each Riven has to be stored individually in the database. Riven mods are meant to be for your absolute favorite weapons anyway, you shouldn't be trying to get one for every weapon you have in your inventory. I'm honestly surprised they gave us more than 30 potential riven slots.

    imho the riven cap this is not about generosity, but part of the monetization aspect for rivens. while i think it's there for good reason i also believe it would be smart to raise the max with the release of melee rivens since many players such as myself already reached the 60 max current limit.

    i hope a higher max in the end is the plan, maybe wishful thinking on my part but that's what i would do if i were to release an episodic product such as rivens to ensure proper distribution based on weapon type % present in the game.

    it's true that compared the regular mods they take up more data but i believe regular mods take up insignificant amounts of data. it's like saying i can't carry this bag of apples with my sole argument being that seeds are tiny.

    • Upvote 1

  10. 1 hour ago, Mak_Gohae said:

    1. Like i just said above, you are playing their game and you need to abide by their rules. You wanting to play the game like you like is not a good argument. They set the rules. Be friendly and give reasons and hope they see your side. Taking number they dont provide and then getting angry about it is not going to help in this situation.

    2. It's not info they provide and you take.

    3. Im pretty sure my question is clear in what i am asking. Dont know what exactly you are taking from it to translate to me saying 15% crit is bad.

    Is it enough to mod for crit for a weapon with meh crit?

    I am asking if the EB bonus, the 15%, will give you a wider range of weapons to use for you min/maxers. Does it mean that you can equip a weapon with meh crit. A weapon with meh crit. A WEAPON WITH MEH CRIT.

    Is this the part that's confusing, somehow? I am asking if it's fine to use a weapon that doesnt have high crit but average (meh) crit.

    Do you understand now? Cause i dont it can make it any clearer.

    4. Not really, you guys keep answering by posting builds instead of saying why that info is essential.

    Im trying to get you guys to create an actual argument thats not, "I want numbers cause i use numbers!" If this is all you got i can see why DE takes so long in giving numbers. Because they are not making Number Cruncher The Game, they are making Warframe.



    1. their game yes but my time and money which i wouldn't spend if i didn't enjoy. i'm not going to comment on rules which i agreed to. i am friendly, i gave reasons.

    2. and like the wiki if someone didn't "take" that information and share, many players probably wouldn't be here for lack of information which they considered to be essential.

    3. i'm sorry it seems i was confused. if i understand you correctly the answer to your question can only be found on the wiki here http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade. afaik  most of the stats on that page are datamined and it would be impossible to answer you without it since it's not presented anywhere ingame.


    28 minutes ago, sinisteran said:

    Nope, because what you are doing is exercising free speech unless you are actively defaming them. But if you went Datamined Harrows questline and posted all audio dialogue, script etc then yes.

    i think even if DE could prove financial loss due to data mined / leaked unfinished content for their beta (not final) game they don't need to for reasons already stated in this thread and i'm sure it won't be the case.

    my heart goes out to both parties involved and i hope DE reconsiders and sets another example for the industry by being honest and allowing data miners to cooperate with them.


    • Upvote 1

  11. 56 minutes ago, sinisteran said:

    If DE didnt have actual proof. They wont say anything. This is a multi million company and not some child in a playground.

    the probem is the scripts and mines werent final. So they arent the final form and is subject to changes. Ppl seeing this would get the wrong perception and judge preemptively. When the final product could be massively better.

    maybe they have proof maybe this is just a scare tactic to ensure there are no leaks prior to TennoCon ... multi million companies make mistakes like the rest of us.

    edit: i absolutely understand why DE doesn't want 3rd party unauthorised leaked scripts and artwork. i think in truth any dedicated player feels the same. maybe there's a better way to get there through more peaceful channels than "talk to my lawyer". obviously there can always be unwilling parties but i don't think Void_Glitch is that as he seemed willing to discuss the matter with DE staff in a cooperative stance.

    the whole game is subject to change even officially released stuff. it's still beta.

    edit: ppl seeing this could potentially get the wrong perception and judge preemptively. is that considered proof of revenue loss?

    • Upvote 1

  12. 1 hour ago, sinisteran said:

    5. I did say in the start and in the TLDR that data mining under fair use is 100 percent fine and I don't think tis fair that you purposely left it out, especially when it was the first line of my text. I Also stated Void is not directly responsible for the Umbra hack. But he is also not 100 percent innocent unless he can 100 percent prove the datamine did not in anyway assist the hackers in doing it. DE stated that they could prove his mines were involved.

    9. You used the weakest example I made to talk about damages and also the one which was not in my main paragraph so it makes me feel that you cant argue about the script leak. I mainly asserted about War within. Let me break it down further and more simple. Script gets hacked. Player reads it, disappointed, CBF to return to the game = a potential loss in platinum sale. OR New prime access leaked. Players not hyped CBF to buy plat to trade for it with players. OR rich person interested in game- see script, no longer interested in buying plat to get good stuff or to level mastery faster. - can you say with 100 percent no one fits in these 3 categories? Even if there is only 3 people that had intended to do this, that's 3 sales. I could think of a few more but I don't think those are reasonable enough so I wont bother.

    Federal law 17 U.S.C. § 504(b) "The copyright owner is entitled to recover the actual damages suffered by him or her as a result of the infringement, and any profits of the infringer that are attributable to the infringement and are not taken into account in computing the actual damages. In establishing the infringer’s profits, the copyright owner is required to present proof only of the infringer’s gross revenue, and the infringer is required to prove his or her deductible expenses and the elements of profit attributable to factors other than the copyrighted work."

    So I guess what DE would do is show the difference in growth after the second dream to the War Within (which was leaked) and also Octavias anthem ( script not leaked) as well as the number of sales loss of a datamined prime and a non datamined prime taking away inflation, product growth, exposure. ETC ANy accountants here?

    12. I explained above. He wont be personally liable since its not murder or battery something like that but his parents would be liable to pay the damages.- I agree this is BS but thats how it works. Stolen movies for example...Parents pay the damages to the studio.

    13. DE has no plans to sue the kid. Its bad business unless hes secretly Bill Gates son in which I immediately change my argument and F*** DE! Yah you guys are wrong. But this is more of a warning. Its a C&D...They want him to stop because it has lead to damages in their revenue stream. I am sure if Voids actions was making them money this would be ignored. But potentially the games security was compromised...and well I am sorry but I think I agree with DE on this one. Vacuum tho? F*** that S#&amp;&#036;. I want it inert. I really do personally see it this time that DE was not at fault.

    5, you seem to know what you are talking about but afaik DE didn't exactly say they have proof. for all we know their "evidence" is that one reddit post in which Void claims to know how the hack was done after the fact, but doesn't want to share the info for security purposes (clearly with the intention of keeping DE from harm). that doesn't mean he's involved.

    also i don't think he has to prove anything as it is DE that has the burden of proof in this case. am i wrong?

    9. i can argue that any leak actually builds hype and results in boosted sales unless the quality is low in which case a leak can help them remedy the situation and release a better product. afaik they are selling a long term service here it's in DE's best interest to sell high quality so they have returning customers. i'm pretty sure TWW resulted in better sales despite being leaked when compared to octavia's anthem

    i can also argue that taking legal action against an innocent teenager (if he wasn't involved in the hack) that has helped the community and ultimately DE to such an extent and therefore losing the respect and dedication of the playerbase can indeed lead to revenue loss.

    • Upvote 3

  13. 4 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

    I understand min/maxing but the questions are, cant you mix/max with the numbers available? Why dont you just politely ask for more numbers? Why do you need to hack the game to get these numbers and act like this is needed to play the game? 

    The numbers people want every number that exist in the game and if DE doesnt provide it yesterday DE is some super evil monsters. 

    I understand that this is how some people play the game but you folks need to understand that this is not required info the game makers need to give you. 

    This is what i wrote. 

    Is it enough to mod for crit for a weapon with meh crit?

    I am clearly asking if the bonus is helpful for certain weapons. Tell me how this is applied, i asked a question i didnt make a statement. 

    1. players have been politely asking for those things for years! this data is needed to play the game the way we like to. knowing how to achieve maximum potential.

    2. data mining is not hacking.

    3. "meh crit" is a statement and it shows you don't have a grasp on stats and modding because 15% crit on a longsword is not meh! i already said it's crit viable in my previous reply.

    4. seems to me you were given answers and arguments time and time again yet you keep asking the same questions. i don't want to be mean maybe english is not your native language (it's not mine either) but i honestly don't know how to make it clearer for you if you still don't get it.

    • Upvote 4

  14. 2 hours ago, Mak_Gohae said:

    again, the question is what you are going to do with that stat and not what are those stats.

    Now that you know this, what are you going to do with it?

    As for weapons with secondary fire mechanics we have:

    The question wasnt, again, gimme a list, the questions how many of those weapon require that info to be known?

    The game doesnt list the Penta explosion damage but the nade damage? Well, that needs to be fixed if that's whats shown.

    The azima alt doesnt do anything but create a turret, and the sonicor? Does that need to be known?


    The passive is listed on the abilities page.

    Ok what do you do with that info on EB? Is it enough to mod for crit for a weapon with meh crit?

    More listing of info with no explanation.

    And you dont think people are going to find out by playing as quickly and they found out the Prodman autograph?

    Look, i know that there are mathheads playing games that get a heart attack if they cant do math for some reason or other, but the real question is the game unplayable without that info? Why dont you ask for the info, bug them until they do it because you all know DE does this easily, instead of hacking the game?

    for many if us this is invaluable information that lets us make decisions about what gear to choose and how to mod it in order to get the best out of it (minmaxing). it's not about being unplayable it's more of a qol and satisfaction. if you don't get it that's fine but it should be obvious to you plenty of other players care very much about this information and use it.

    p.s. if you think 15% cc on EB is meh clearly you don't understand how it works. you have to take into consideration all the mods you can add and the fire rate and then if you do the math you may realize it's actually very much crit viable.

    • Upvote 4

  15. 9 hours ago, ..atom.. said:

    1. more openness about drops and mechanics is always good and should have been in the game already. DE should really be thankful of the community maintaining the wiki and even dataminers for sharing details like drop rates, exalted weapons mechanics, melee stats like range, etc

    2. How long is it going to take before lawyers realize that the simple act of trying to repress something they don't like online is likely to make it so that something that most people would never, ever see (like a photo of a urinal in some random beach resort) is now seen by many more people? Let's call it the Streisand Effect.

    — Mike Masnick

    if someone thinks editing my comment and deleting my opinion on the matter will do anything good for the company image i can assure them it will do the opposite and undermine confidence even more. 

    this was taken out by moderators apparently:

    "x. i think going the lawyer route against Void_Glitch for something he apparently didn't do, is a bad way to handle things instead of 1st trying to talk to the guy. This kind of stuff will undermine confidence and sales way more than any datamining can."

    this is not an attack on DE ... the thing is players calling them out on bs is an act of love ultimately, we do this because we love the devs, the community and the game. it's all we can do to try to keep them on the straight path because like DE, we the playerbase want to keep this collaboration going. i understand that spirits are high but please put the guns down, shooting without reason will only make it worse and i know nobody really wants that. 

    • Upvote 11

  16. 1. more openness about drops and mechanics is always good and should have been in the game already. DE should really be thankful of the community maintaining the wiki and even dataminers for sharing details like drop rates, exalted weapons mechanics, melee stats like range, etc

    2. How long is it going to take before lawyers realize that the simple act of trying to repress something they don't like online is likely to make it so that something that most people would never, ever see (like a photo of a urinal in some random beach resort) is now seen by many more people? Let's call it the Streisand Effect.

    — Mike Masnick
    • Upvote 7

  17. 37 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:
    • Fixed built Exilus Adapters being offered as Rare Invasion rewards instead of the Blueprint.

    corpus board running things I guess lol.

    imo the only way this works is if you make 1 forma regular cost 10p in the market instead of 20. and obviously adjust rush cost and bundle as well.

    • Upvote 4
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