(PSN)GEN-Son_17

Ok, here's where we get a little too far on one side and I don't think that's right. In DE's case, the players' voices speak VERY LOUDLY. If the vast majority wanted something to return (truly vast, not just 15 out of the top 30 forum posters), then it's a strong chance DE would step in and make that change, especially if it makes sense...regardless of financial gain or loss. We've all seen this happen. So I don't think we should be trying to call out DE for moves that we, the players, usually call for. Regarding the wording on packs, I, personally, have always associated the "limited-time" with the packs themselves , and not all of the items, unless they specifically discuss the items. The Heirloom packs had crystal clear wording that they are not coming back but the support packs have items that don't mention any wording about any individual items never coming back. The combination that makes the package, however, may not return but the individual items may be bundled up in another package in the future. Package time versus individual items time are very different, just like buying a video games system bundle.

I think removing lifted status, or making it exclusive to heavy slam and some warframe abilities only, would solve a lot of the stance issues. Personally, I like how the combos can be mixed together, creating new combos and completely changing the dynamics of the attacks. I guess this was DE's intent but I've not heard of many people doing this.

It's also one of the fastest leveling missions in the game due to the amount of eximis units and the absurdly high xp they give. It's actually faster than Hydron

No, @schilds is correct. It's actually quite silly that people are complaining about optional, bonus criteria and trying to equate that with everyday Warframe gameplay. Why would you even want that when the remaining 95% of the game fulfills that criteria, including an update just recently released? Of course playing a game is optional. In that, there are additional options to choose from, from the beginning of the game to alllll the way to its massive, current offering. You can both choose to play the game and choose the options within it.

I........yes.

All day? Operator cheese? Honestly @Kaiga, which weapons are you referring to? I mean, I can your point if you weren't modding for enemy weaknesses but even SP Grineer are nothing against corrosive, cold or heat. For non Incarnon, I enjoy the Trumna, Proboscis Cernos bow, Vehkor Hek, Phage and the Sybaris Prime primaries, the Simuloid Gammacor, Akbolto Primes, and the beam kitgun secondaries, Rakta Dark Dagger, Twin Krukors and Twin Basilisk melees. Are any of these weapons you would consider not viable? All of these span from about 9 years of the game.

Whoa... I forgot about the accuracy reduction that went along with the DR! Now that it's a toggle effect, I wonder how this would work when combined with stacked Corpus enemy accuracy reduction aura mods?

What are these weapons that can't handle level 300+, particularly non SP 300+? The stug? Mk1 weapons? We know we're facing the murmur, we know they are weak against radiation, we have radiation and murmur bane mods, galvanized mods and we have companion 3.0. I guess I will never agree with you or anyone about weapon viability when we see youtube videos or I myself go ham in SP with weapons I never considered powerful, like the braton prime (non Incarnon). Of course, my view of the braton prime being a weaker weapon may upset someone else, and that's the point. Why not just see what you can do?

I agree and love good, constructive conversations about changes or ideas. However, I think it's important for us to still be careful about how the overall direction the community's feedback message appears to DE. Despite naysayers, our opinions hold weight and the loudest may give the wrong appearance of the majority's say. Your "If DE nerfed Helminth Eclipse even harder (let's say 15% damage boost, 25% damage reduction)" example would be a reasonable discussion to have, as the effects don't have enough impact on neither defense nor offense. However, what we have is a more reliable, considerably more useful version of the original ability, with a sustained offensive or defensive buff...and that caused complaints. With even a sub decent build, subsumed Eclipse will destroy SP enemies and protect any warframe. Asking for more power is ok, but some of the more aggressive demands need to be called out because it can hurt is in the future, IMO . Overall though, you are absolutely correct.

DE used to have a white board that did just that and the community absolutely burned then for it. The worst example was with Empyrean, where DE very clearly and honestly told the community it was so new of an experience, that it was going to be buggy and they would need our help to find and report as soon as possible in order to dial it in. Instead, the community, and YouTubers, torched them, despite having full transparency. The community used transparency against DE and it clearly showed we weren't ready to be in the actual, game defining, conversation. We failed. Even here in this thread, there's still arguments about why the reverted Eclipse isn't better than Roar, despite one ability having a defense ability toggle...two abilities in one. Players are not being reasonable and, unfortunately, DE has long since taken notes on that. "Just give them what they want...even though it goes against the other thing they want". They're really trying, and keep a positive attitude about it, but there are too many pessimistic, selfish and unreasonable people that speak loudly, get their way, but also claim they aren't being heard. How do we fix that?

Nah, I think it would be more about how the unreliable effects of old eclipse justified the strength increase, but the new version would be extremely overpowered for no reason whatsoever. Millions of damage of overkill versus less millions of damage of overkill would only, maybe, perhaps, kinda matter in level cap runs, which shouldn't matter to any of us and doesn't matter to DE. Even still, mastering the desired effects of old eclipse outside of the simulacrum (which I bet most people will base their opinions on, instead of actual gameplay) relied on knowing each tileset, movement and weapon fire timing, especially while parkouring and running. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing this is what was happening.

Yes, and literally the last update was a "bring any frame and any weapon" endgame challenge: The Fragmented One. Are you saying that every single endgame content must be your preferred style or it's trash, bad design or whatever negativity generating title you want to give it? Isn't that being selfish and unrealistic, considering this game caters to a giant, omnidirectional player base? Why not at least try to engage in it and have some fun with your crew and see just how god awful or glorious your performance can be?

What I'm saying, once again (and for every time complaints like these come up), is this just a game mode. Just A game mode that will be available in a decade running game full of different game modes. People have literally complained about every single one of them, including the Fragmented One, as if it were the only game mode in the entire game. This has been going on since before "I hate this! Why can't I just use my Warframe to defeat the Eidolons? I worked so hard for them and now I have to level up and use the weak operators!?". Vets have asked for different game modes and different ways to play, while a few vets complained about not being able to play every mode the exact same way. "But why not just make it more difficult so I can use my most powerful builds anyway?". Yes, that was Steel Path, The Fragmented One, the Archons, Profit Taker, the original Wolf. We have those...and guys complained about those too. Now, this new mode addresses the other side of the complaints, "why can't we have more challenges and ways to test our skill with the arsenal we've spent years collecting and building?". That is SP Circuit, Sorties and now this mode. Wait, are these the only three game modes that attempt to addresses those players' requests? Is this really what you guys are outraged about? Even worse, are you guys really a mess because of an optional version of a current mission?

I've never seen a nail get hit in the head so hard and so precisely. You've spelled out the pattern of those types of players pretty clearly, and it's a shame that the cycle never ends. I hope it finally does though. I just wish they all would quit whining how DE issues a challenge. Long time players claim how easy the game is and how they can level cap, but are exposed to have only been able to rely on meta builds. I mean, where are all of the "this game is super easy" players? A challenge is coming and you guys are backing out or waiting for DE to feel bad and nerf it due to these poor excuses?

I have to disagree here. I would understand if we were talking about endless missions but SP level 300-350 of the murmur faction, particularly when we have a new set of radiation mods that saves us a slot, I think we are overreacting quite a bit. We also 100% do not have to choose these restrictions AND we are even allowed to select how much of a challenge we want by NOT choosing some of the restrictions. Guy, I don't get it. This is an optional bonus to the challenge that is geared for those ready for a rare Warframe challenge. It's another SP Circuit, but lower leveled and not endless. You absolutely do not have to partake in it at all but, just like any other video game with a special, elusive reward, the option is there if you feel up to it. Why complain that rare opportunity away...or complain it to a nerf? Is this the actual goal here? If so, then I think you guys are ruining a really cool opportunity for, finally, some sort of bragging rights element in the game.

Point taken on the roll, but Merulina's animation is that of a bullet jump. Regarding your second "fix", there's no point in attempting to fix what was not broken.

That won't really matter though. Only a super small selective few would even play that long to get to that high a level. Adding even a small amount of shield or overguard would simply allow those players to use the exact same tactic as any other frame. It would be pointless.

Why reconsider? At what level in the game would this honestly matter? I think the overall benefit of a now reliable, selectable, still very strong offensive buff, and a reliable, selectable, still very strong defensive buff, more than justifies a nerf that people would have to spend a lot of time in level cap in order to try and prove the numbers truly matter, while no longer trying to stay in areas that the original ability required.

That was the old controls though. The new Merulina controls are much tighter, stops faster and can bullet jump. I like this augment because it does what DE does best: provide really good options. On more narrow corridor missions, the Loyal Merulina augment can be a huge benefit to a stronger primary/melee setup, providing great CC and defense. Meanwhile, Guardian Merulina provides that near invulnerable setup that excels everywhere else. I'm curious to see how many enemies Merulina can trap as well as how fast the AI moves with Yareli.

I'm excited to try this updated kit! His 2 and 3 were my biggest complaints and DE did a rock solid change to the whole kit. It honestly looks really promising and I already see the build changes I'll be making to push Inaros 2.0. The most pleasing change, IMO, is the sandstorms pull effect replacing the push effect. This will synergize quite well with Tenno Kai, Grimoire mods and melee arcanes like Influence. The Sancti Magistar Incarnon would shine with Inaros as well, with a heavy attack healing the squad, thanks to a pulled in pile of enemies. AoE weapons will be even more of Inaros' best friends, now that status immunity is embedded into his Scarab Armor, and I can see the shadow kavats aggro working with the robo doggo's mini clones attack to create an insanely potent, and very manageable, aggro reduction symmetry. Considering all of this, I can understand why Pablo thinks Inaros survivability wouldn't be an issue, even at high level SP.

But the condition for the effect doesn't need us to hit a weak point, which could be a much larger battery pack on a robot. Also, the head is usually facing us while attacking or pursuing, so it's easier to see and shoot what's directly facing you.

Hobie-wan has won the month!

Why not though? And what makes the ruling nonsense?

None are better than the other. They all have their own worlds of gameplay and they can all very effectively kill and survive. Give us some examples as to why you think there are replacements.

Iron Skin needs zero augments to be viable. It functions similarly to Warding Halo (which also cannot be recasted until depletion) and Iron Skin is always going to be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than any other DR since its DR is at 100%. How can 90-95% DR somehow be better than 100%? In regards to the effort involved with millions of eHP, complete invulnerability should require some extra work at higher levels because the result of that work is high level invulnerability. We're talking zero damage at high SP levels for a long time, from the result of less than 10 seconds of setup work. It doesn't make any sense to me to consider Iron Skin anything but spectacular.