Misaania

As contrary to my words in previous chains, I was angry about Dante's changes. Now following these changes, he feels much better, and easier to play. I still would prefer his LoS reverted and exchanged for a shorter range, but I still enjoy playing him, so I'm at least going to tolerate the state he's in and not make it my hill to die on. But the hill I must continue to do battle on is the current state of crowd control, which means a lot of the current roster of warframes are in a state that means they would need an entire rework, which is not a good use of DE's time. The frames heavily effected by Overguard are as follows; Frost, Khora (strangledome), Nova, Banshee, Mag, Oberon, Vauban, Nyx, Loki, and Limbo. The other frames that have crowd control have some elements they can lean back on to ensure they thrive in the current meta. Overguard is effectively killing any form of crowd control and created a narrower roster of powers you can use for future warframes. It's obviously never my intent to be needlessly critical, and rather that I intend to provide examples of solutions so you don't see me as only being critical, but never helpful. Overguard is in a powerful state as it is right now, not only for enemies, but for allies as well, and it is through these two situations that I wish to provide a two pronged approach. First, allied overguard. As it is right now, it's a far too effective as a defensive option, as it's usually tied to a simple ability only exhausted by damage. It's actually more effective than shields due to its capacity to grow to extremely high values. A solution to this factor is to limit its vulnerability to crowd control from enemies. For example; the overguard is immune to the pulling portion of a scorpion's grappling hook, but it's knockdown will deal increased damage to the overguard. And blitz, and arson eximus have their aoes do increased damage to player overguard. These values should take a percentage of the player's overguard, and will allow players to make a more conscious effort to avoid enemy aoe as opposed to it being even less effective than just taking constant damage from enemy bullets. Second, enemy overguard. It's capacity to outright nullify crowd control is understandable due to crowd controls ability to run away with a defense, however, the goal should never be to destroy a warframe's kit to make some missions nearly impossible. It's through this I suggest a change similar to that of the player overguard I mentioned above where cc is able to do half the entire overguard's hp, or destroy the overguard. This will make it efficient to just run a crowd control frame to strip overguard, much like that of an armor stripping warframe and it will allow them to crowd control enemies with overguard after they are invulnerable from the crowd control for 2-5 seconds. I hope this is helpful, and I wish you luck in continuing to design the game.,

So me and another 4 players were doing Steel Path circuit and we came around the first extermination. The problem was that no enemies spawn and the requirement to get them to spawn was the host leaving, and thus preventing them from being a part of a long duration Circuit run. Attached below is a video of the situation. https://streamable.com/2pccbn I am uncertain how to reproduce this bug, nor the reason it occurred, but wish to provide evidence and an explanation for potential future awareness.

I should jump in here because over the past 2 days I've been very active in discussion. CC and killing abilities should be different in that CC should be wider and better more effective against stronger groups of enemies, killing abilities should be either slower, weaker to groups or weaker against stronger enemies. The fact of the matter is that all three subsets of CC are contrary to killing abilities, it's just completely ineffective to eximus units the way the are designed and ends up going against point three. How do we fix it? Honestly it should be a two pronged approach. Overguard on enemies and warframes are both problems. Let's be real overguard for allies is better than the likes of Qorvex status immunity. CC should strip 1k overguard from allied warframes/pets. Enemies it should outright strip the overguard. The reason for this is simple; CC does as designed but is incapable of killing without intervention in the shape of killing abilities or weapons. Killing abilities do what's on the tin, they deal damage and have an extra bar to go through. In the case of warframes that focus on damage they can absolutely be more efficient than CC but theoretically they would slow down based on the challenge of the mission. CC should be consistent regardless of the difficulty.

Praise, the Chroma change he so desperately needed to be actually viable. It was always a challenge to charge Vex Armor, and now it should be reasonable. The Dante LoS improvement is mild at best. I'd still prefer it the original way you had it on release. The question is, why is LoS triggered from our camera, and not from the front of the warframe? Are we actually just using abilities from behind the warframe, and it is actually a physical barrier?

We're reviewing LoS right now with Dante. Can't speak to Khora at this exact moment, but the team has it noted. They are only reviewing Dante. It won't happen to other Warframes, because they don't even identify that there are more issues than Dante and Khora.

And I'm going to remain active in this comment chain, just like I was in the previous. Are we sure this will make him viable? I'm uncertain of the case. He's still detrimental to Warframes that thrive off lost health. I've specifically trusted your redesigns, Pablo, but you're all really going all in on the changes. It feels like you're all ready to call it a day and convince us to give up on the matter when we all ask for the same things. Reverting him or limiting his range is the easy way. This is the medium way, but now may I ask something that's equally important? Does this mean we're going to see you adding the same check to all LoS Warframes? Khora whipclaw and Ember immolation being two examples off the top of my head. If you're just fixing Dante because we're frustrated by this change, then it strikes me as frantic efforts to placate us, but not necessarily to make us happy. Better doesn't necessarily mean good, and Warframes do extremely poorly on Line of Sight. Is Line of Sight a hill to die on much like universal loot pickup? I'm trying to hard to reach out from a purely understanding and helpful way, giving as much genuine criticism without being disrespectful, but the parroting of this makes me want to see you guys doing better in other areas.

I very much hope you do. I'm not hating on specifically you devs. I know it's hard to make a game, and the logical majority of us know that you're trying to make it fun. We just want you to know that nerfs to this degree are decidedly not fun.

The Dante changes are tone deaf. I wanted to say that you were doing a great job with balancing frames, but now based on just a casual understanding he's in an incredibly bad place right now. I won't deny that a nerf was likely necessary, but the act of nerfing him so egregiously now creates more substantial problems. So overguard has been dropped by 60% with only a bandaid of additional generation? The right fix was making his overguard only apply to him and drop it 20%. That makes him get around 30k overguard. It makes him more selfish. Wordwarden buff. Required, it was subpar and ended up being a energy waster, it still seems to be that way as Dante is a caster frame, not a weapon buff frame. Pageflight nerf. Understandable, additional status damage is excessive and not required. The nerf to tragedy is the biggest issue. Are we just going to ignore that most other warframes don't need line of sight requirements and how unreliable line of sight is in Warframe? Khora still has an issue with hitting enemies on a slight incline with her whipclaw, can you not focus on fixing that before you apply nerfs that affect his line of sight requirements? And I can even provide a better nerf, decreasing his range by 30-50%. It was never a problem about line of sight, it's the problem of its base range being so large. I think people would be upset with my suggested changes, but he'd still be useful. The state he's in right now makes him an outright detriment to people who use Warframes that need to take damage to use their kits, and less useful than any other frame that can be used in his place. I've enjoyed playing Dante, and understand he's strong. I agree he needs nerfs, but you've gone as far as crippling him. I hope that you go back over him and correct the changes, but I have no faith in that, sadly.

Correct, I just encountered the same bug solo. I'll post a picture if I have the bug repeat in the remaining netracells.