(PSN)mcfar53
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Posts posted by (PSN)mcfar53
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6 hours ago, Auranim said:
I honestly think it has less to do with what new players have to do, and more about what is presented to them. When I started playing, I remember feeling very overwhelmed with the sheer amount of stuff I could do. I first played Warframe for reals right after Plains of Eidolon went live, so I was very eager to experience the new content. So I jumped on my trusty level 8 Mag and went ahead to try and tackle an Eidolon. Solo, because I didn't even know there were clans at the time.
You can imagine how that went.
So I think Nightwaves are okay. There could be more dailies, but honestly, I never thought I'd even see Umbra Forma. That was very very bonus for me. If anything, I think a cosmetic reward such as the armour set should have been placed earlier in the ladder than the actual endgame, useful stuff, but I've always heard that Warframe Endgame is Fashionframe. 😄
What I think could be done has more to do with information architecture. That means limiting the amount of exposure new players have to everything the game has to offer. There really is little reason for an MR5 player to even know about sorties. Is it technically feasible? Yes. But that player must already know what they're doing in order to tackle a sortie at that rank, so either a smurf or someone with very good friends.
The accessibility difference between Nightwave and Alerts is artificial. Nightwave presents the information in a way that makes it feel like you can achieve the ranks and rewards, while Alerts showed very clear [LOCKED] messages in nodes you couldn't still access so you'd know before starting the grind that that one wasn't for you. Yet. So when you start putting in some effort for standing only to realise you won't be able to complete the quest, the whole system feels frustrating. Especially in a game that caters so much to completionists.Perhaps dividing the whole standing grind in brackets and then assigning a message to that bracket would sort of diminish the issue. Something as simple as "Recommended for MR10+" would clearly indicate things to a newer player, conveying more of a "you'll get there" message than an "oh you poor thing, you thought you'd make it through? Oh, honey, this isn't for you".
That and more dailies. Seriously. Twice as more dailies for half the standing would have *felt* better while not changing the system, but more rewards for smaller tasks is awesome. Vets would complete it organically while new players would have had more to work towards. And if DE ever reads this, trust me: the more people who can complete the event 100%, the better. It feels good seeing this task complete, and it makes it more exciting for the next. And it ups the stakes of MISSING OUT because you don't really want that stain in your career, do you? 😄Change makes people apprehensive. I'm sure that's it. Once the new system is fully embedded we'll all settle down.
Lol, I was riled up in the beginning.
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3 hours ago, Oreades said:
Which is part of the reason I don't think that weekly challenges should expire. Because someone who can't do a Sortie this week will probably have the capacity to do sorties by the end of the event. So it is extremely capricious to say just because you couldn't do a sortie within this 7 days/168hr window you just lose out on those points over this 70 day/1,680hr event.
I understand where you are coming from. I think they, me included, are apprehensive about the change. I'm sure it will be a good thing.
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31 minutes ago, D1sTrust said:
Just posting to back up the OP.
Imo Nightwave is a nice addition, but removing alerts doesn`t feel good to a new-ish player like me.Alerts were a good way to get some of the basic stuff new players need, down to simple credit rewards.
They also worked well for bringing random groups together. No matter the time, if I went to an alert I could count on finding a group instantly, and for any player level.
A friend of mine just started playing a few days ago, I guess he has to mostly solo through the starchart now.I am MR8, played about 100+ hours, yet the rewards from Nightwave are still relatively meaningless to me.
Plus I am asked to dedicate so much time, it puts my progress through the starchart to a halt.I hope Nightwave-like systems stay in the game, it is a good addition and can make players try things they would otherwise ignore.
But alerts should come back, or any other system that makes quick, random groups fun for new players and gives them rewards they care for.
Indeed. I think Nightwave is really cool and a nice addition but we need the Alerts back or at least balance this for new players. I got so many other things I want to do. Oh BTW Danielle is live right now on Twitch.
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1 hour ago, Oreades said:
Which is part of the reason I don't think that weekly challenges should expire. Because someone who can't do a Sortie this week will probably have the capacity to do sorties by the end of the event. So it is extremely capricious to say just because you couldn't do a sortie within this 7 days/168hr window you just lose out on those points over this 70 day/1,680hr event.
So true. I've been saying this a lot. Balance is the key.
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4 minutes ago, Vengeance_A said:
My lad, dunno did u notice how many topics 'nightwave succ me no like' are around. While majority sounds I DON'T WANNA PLAY LONGER THAN 1H WEEKLY BUT I WANT ALL THE REWARDS.
Honestly, if quests are like super hard or something, I would say openly it's an issue. But they are not. A lot of them u can speed run except obv 1h survival and similar to those. Again, as someone who had enough of ppl going in endless missions, mainly relics, then leave after 5-10 mins, this change for me was more than welcome. And only on forums I see ppl whining about nightwave not being perfect. Guess what, there is no system that will be perfect and that will work for every single player.
I see nothing wrong with having struggles or wanting help, thats pretty much normal and from what I could see, players often offer their help or don't mind helping whoever even with some 'annoying' stuff. Again repeating, what is wrong with users of this forum? I normally stay away, but holy f, atm is too much.I'm not you. You are projecting. Quests can be super hard. You're obviously a way better player than me and I'm MR19. I'd love to learn and run with you. Show me your skills and teach me to do them. But how about this? The Quests were easy for you but they're very difficult for us.
I love Warframe but it can be a real challenge for me. I'll never give up on it. I can't speed run. They're not saying they are entitled. They're just upset that it has become harder. We need to help them understand.
We forget about when we first started. Thank goodness I had someone to guide me.
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1 hour ago, Oreades said:
Personally I think it's overall more friendly to new players than the old Alert system.
That said the one place I feel that the overall Wolf of Saturn Six event fell flat on it's face was that the weekly challenges expire. It just puts a capricious cap on them for no good reason and stands to cause some issues that need not be issues later down the line.
They could easily fix that (maybe not in this event but at least in future long term events) by making the Weekly challenges never expire. That way people can complete them whenever instead of a very narrow time frame (with regard to the totality of the event). There is no down side to that as it resolves issues like someone being MR locked from a Challenge that they might be able to have done by the following week. Or an instance where someone has some IRL issues crop up and can't play for a few weeks.
Both groups still need to complete the challenge so they "put the effort in" they just wouldn't have been needlessly locked out because they couldn't "put the effort in within this exact mini timeframe within the scope of the larger event timeframe". There simply is no reason for that and all it does is engender ill will from the players who find themselves further and further behind with no way to catch up.
People are still going to be sitting there chomping at the bit to see what next weeks challenges are when they roll over. The only thing DE might need to address would be how the game stacked identical challenges from subsequent weeks. I know do a Sortie has been a challenge that's popped up a couple times now. So they would probably need to set things up in such a way that if you met the criteria for multiple challenges it would only fill in the completion from the earliest unfinished weekly challenge.
EG if you have a week 1 challenge "Do a Sortie" and a week 3 challenge "do a Sortie" and you did a sortie during week 5, it would count that as the week 1 Sortie and only the week 1 Sortie challenge, the next sortie you did would then count for Week 3. However dissimilar challenges or even similar challenges within a given week would still stack as per normal.
Actually new players are MR gated. I do think NW is somewhat friendly though but it needs to be balanced.
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1 hour ago, Vengeance_A said:
U actually dunno how whiny wf player base is until u open the forums. And then u are like 'fk this, Im out'.
What IS casual for u people? U want awards, but to put 15 mins in it weekly? Like, are u for real?
Whoever I talked with, they legit finished all in 1-2 days. U often can finish 2-3 quests in a single mission.Capture targets literally spawn in every mission. Per week 4 tiers.
If u are not willing to put 3-4h per week in the game, why are u even bothered by rewards that u don't even need considering how often u play?You can't group all players into one basket. We are all different. And they aren't whiny. You are projecting. They simply are voicing their concerns. And because someone doesn't agree with another doesn't mean they should be shut down or not consider their opinion.
I'm MR19 ready for the MR20 and many times I struggle and need help. I complained about a weapon and how much it sucked. Then one day a fellow player helped me understand it. It's my go-to weapon mow.
I absolutely love Warframe and I welcome Nightwave. It's pretty cool. We should be helping players understand the change not condemning them for their opinion.
Warframe is all about that and DE would want this.
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As a MR19 player I totally understand everyone's point of view. We all started out as a new player. And regardless of how easy it is for some there are many other people who are struggling.
My opinion on Nightwave is that it's Awesome. I want it forever in the game. What it shouldn't be is a replacement for the Alerts.
Grinding is a good part of Warframe and I totally love it. However no matter how you slice it the "End does not justify the means" in Nightwave.
Simply put, you can't expect a new player to welcome in a challenge that he will not be able to complete.
It's endgame material. Imagine going straight into a game like Dark Souls or Bloodborne and be expected to be beat the Bosses straight away. Or imagine playing those games and and be expected to play the game and beat it with a time constraint. You have X amount of time to beat the game or get to the final boss and if you don't, well, too bad for you. Better luck next year.
Now imagine you have a job, wife or girlfriend, kids and/or events you have to attend. With limited play time, a few hours in the evening or some time on the weekends. Again, the good rewards will be out of reach and as hard as you want to get there it will not be possible.
We don't live in our Grandma's basement.
If you're a new player that did, it you didn't do it on your own. You were carried by the elite. Even a team of new players could not accomplish this.
For the most part players that start out are usually carried at some point. I don't see a problem with that. Heck, I hope you do.
Even though I can hold all 4 points in an interception, solo, I still struggle in the game. Mostly the infested maps. And because I have essential tremors I love to hit door jambs and shoot in the air. Lol, don't love it, it just happens.
Warframe is great therapy for me.
It takes a while to get used to the game mechanics and the rewards. For new players, solo players and those that are good but not super players the goodies like the potatoes will simply be out of reach.
I am a solo player for many reasons. One is I like to take my time. Speed running is just not my thing.
And before you can say Warframe is a multiplayer game only there is a solo button. There's even videos from renowned YouTubers on playing solo. And Nightwave isn't solo player friendly. That was even addressed at the beginning of a twitch video by space mom.
I absolutely love Warframe and I think Nightwave is awesome. I hope it remains as a permanent part of Warframe.
But the Alerts serve a purpose and that purpose shouldn't be replaced by an unbalanced event. Keep both.
That's what Warframe needs.
Balance
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As a MR19 player I totally understand where NewPlayer317 is coming from. I understand everyone's point of view. We all started out as a new player. And regardless of how easy it is to you there are many other people who share his point of view. And, he is correct.
My opinion on Nightwave is that it's Awesome. I want it forever in the game. What it shouldn't be is a replacement for the Alerts.
Grinding is a good part of Warframe and I totally love it. However no matter how you slice it the "End does not justify the means" in Nightwave.
Simply put, you can't expect a new player to welcome in a challenge that he will not be able to complete for all the reasons he stated.
It's endgame material. Imagine going straight into a game like Dark Souls or Bloodborne and be expected to be able to fight the Bosses straight away. Or imagine playing those games and and be expected to play the game and beat it with a time constraint. You have X amount of time to beat the game or get to the final boss and if you don't, well, too bad for you. Better luck next year.
Now imagine you have a job, wife or girlfriend, kids and/or events you have to attend. With limited play time, a few hours in the evening or some time on the weekends. Again, the good rewards will be out of reach and as hard as you want to get there it will not be possible.
We don't live in our Grandma's basement.
If you're a new player that did, you didn't do it on your own. You were carried by the elite. Even a team of new players could not accomplish this.
For the most part players that start out are usually carried at some point. I don't see a problem with that. Heck, I hope you do.
Even though I can hold all 4 points in an interception, solo, I still struggle in the game. Mostly the infested maps. And because I have essential tremors I love to hit door jambs and shoot in the air. Lol, don't love it, it just happens.
Warframe is great therapy for me.
It takes a while to get used to the game mechanics and the rewards. For new players, solo players and those that are good but not super players the goodies like the potatoes will simply be out of reach.
I am a solo player for many reasons. One is I like to take my time. Speed running is just not my thing.
And before you can say Warframe is a multiplayer game only there is a solo button. There's even videos from renowned YouTubers on playing solo. And Nightwave isn't solo player friendly. That was even addressed at the beginning of a twitch video by space mom.
I absolutely love Warframe and I think Nightwave is awesome. I hope it remains as a permanent part of Warframe.
But the Alerts serve a purpose and that purpose shouldn't be replaced by an unbalanced event. Keep both.
That's what Warframe needs.
Balance
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21 minutes ago, Borduglas said:
The aspects of the previous alert system that I liked:
1.) Bite-sized.
2.) We revisit nodes we would never come back to once finished previously.
3.) Quick way to get nitain etc.
4.) Quick way to get the difficult to obtain kavat DNA.
I would like these aspects to be combined with the new nightwave system. Have some challenges in there that were previous alert missions. This could be implemented as an hourly type cycle in the nightwave system.
Things I like about the current nightwave:
a.) I could get a reliable method to get nitain.
b.) A reliable way to get orokin reactors/catalysts.
c.) Rewards for getting for points in the syndicate.
Things I do not like with nightwave:
A.) Highly imbalanced mission structure. (eg. This week we had to do 10 syndicate missions for a measly 3000 standing)
B.) Sporadic reward for wolf cred.
My suggestions:
1.) As a guideline for mission structure, have approximately 5 minutes of gameplay = 1000 standing. The daily missions completely feel fine with me.
2.) Have additional daily missions if my aforementioned suggestion of hourly missions won't work.
3.) Why not have wolf cred rewarded every time you reach 10 000 standing?
4.) Catering to endurance runners seem really counter productive when you already have arbitrations specifically for them. Why not flesh out the fun aspects of both systems and then profit as people have fun in their own way? In my opinion alerts were never for endurance runners in the first place, and nightwave is a replacement for those.
5.) I also suggest removal of the "friend" missions.
6.) I haven't even done the elite missions because I am not good enough for them.
7.) Have kavat DNA and other more difficult to obtain resources in the cred offerings.
That is pretty dog gone good. Lol. Been wanting to say that. But YES! Balance it just needs some sort of balance. Love your ideas.
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3 minutes ago, Waterymelon said:
Actually, I feel you guys can separate the wolf cred from the rewords and make the Nightwave a 2 part event.
1. Wolf Cred part
Maybe add few more daily or weekly missions just for Wolf Cred. These missions work as the replacement of the old alerts buy more stable. So it will be easier for new players to gain usual resources or cosmetics. This part is like the old alert system and give new players chances to get goodies. Also friendly for casual players to collect the cosmetics.
2. Nightwave reputation part
The current reputation system for Nightwave can be some seasonal events. Challenges and hardcore contents can be added in the missions to gain NW reputation. This part is meant for veterans or hardcore players. Also you can save certain missions, so some players who just come back or become strong enough during the mid of the season will have chance to get the good rewards.
Yes, yes and yes! Well said! BALANCE we just need Balance.
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In the interest of repeating myself.
I think it's amazing how people project on to others. Some of the players that you think are "entitled" (you couldn't be more wrong) just want to see a balance. They're not saying get rid of it. Nightwave is very cool. I want it to be permanent.
It's not so much of a complaint about grinding. The whole of Warframe is a grind and I love every minute of it and so do the players that everyone else is calling "entitled" The problem lies in "Does the End justify the Means?"
If you read through the posts there's not so much of a cry to remove it but a concern. I'm a MR19 going on 20. I see what they're saying and I totally agree. I'm a solo player. And don't get me started on that. Some of the challenges, even though they don't have to do them, are pretty dog gone hard! And in their eyes unfair and not worth it.
Instead of condemning we need to be helpful. Educate and show them what they're missing. De-escalate not escalate. Entice not incite.
Do what DE would want the Warframe community to do. Help everyone to have a blast playing this awesome game!.
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4 hours ago, Voltage said:
It was nice having something that was more than the usual "Rotation C and restart" structure. I hope more challenges are available to fill the "Elite" role for challenges.
Will there be dedicated missions like Syndicate dailies to be more interesting than capturing hundreds of fugitive groups? This would also be cool to have dedicated spawns for the Wolf through some additional linear grind.
The majority of the playerbase who will participate in this system place challenges like "10 perfect conservation" as "Elite" (I am not trying to be rude, just realistic and observant). Trying to fill everyone's niche is impossible due to the variety of difficulties people play at, and the overwhelming majority of this game's playerbase being highly casual (again, not necessarily bad, just the target audience). If Elite challenges are to be truly elite, we should have way more challenges available so that the casual player can get 30 easily for the Umbral Forma (like they want) and the experienced can reach that same spot efficiently (as they should).
If the challenges are too hard/time consuming for the majority, there will be complaints until its mind-numbingly easy (see: the Profit Taker with Repeller Systems, Vauban Prime crafting costs in 2016, attempts at Hema reduction in 2016/2017, Focus grind since Update 18, Void RNG complaints for years, etc). Trust me, I used to be one of many to complain about grind. I have since learned that proper grind in Warframe is what keeps the game engaging, and although nothing is perfect, less grind will ultimately lead to less gameplay and more content drought.
With this in mind, and from my observations throughout the years, the majority don't want grind and want to be handed the items almost immediately. This is quite clear seeing complaints on the first day of a week long challenge.
It's nice to see an attempt from the development team, and thank you for the transparency [DE]Bear. I (and many others) await more changes to the Nightwave system. I do hope DE goes back to the drawing board and tries again with this "try to cater to everyone here and there" style of challenges.
It's just a shame that the community is quick to denounce any attempt at more gameplay. There is a reason we have long lengths of content drought, and it's because we ask for it.
I think it's amazing how people project on to others. Some players just want to see a balance. They're not saying get rid of it. Nightwave is very cool. I want it to be permanent.
It's not so much of a complaint about grinding. The whole of Warframe is a grind and I love every minute of it. And so do the players that everyone else is calling "entitled" The problem lies in "Does the End justify the Means?"
If you read through the posts there's not so much of a cry to remove it but a concern. I'm a MR19 going on 20. I see what they're saying and I totally agree. I'm a solo player. And don't get me started on that. Some of the challenges, even though they don't have to do them, are pretty dog gone hard! And in their eyes unfair and not worth it.
Instead of condemning we need to be helpful. Educate and show them what they're missing. De-escalate not escalate. Entice not incite.
Do what DE would want the Warframe community to do. Help everyone to have a blast playing this awesome game!
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Nightwave Challenges - ain't so chalenging
in General Discussion
Posted
Oh my gosh you are crazy. I would love to play with you but I think I would just hold you back. Lol. Wow. I'm setting up my PC. If it works out let's play. I gotta see how you do it. I totally suck and I'm MR19. I'm not even close to being a Care Bear. How do you do it!