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Feyangol

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Posts posted by Feyangol

  1. 19 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

    Someone else has noticed this too.  😁 

    It's not really that I've noticed, it was always like this after all. I just found this expression somewhere in the forums and it just fits the mentality of the players here very well. They just want to win so hard, that any hindrances seem to always get labeled "bad design".*

    Imo the only way to get people to want these new enemies is to force them to learn how to play the game better. To not rely on their numbers and cheap ability tricks to cheese through every mission. So that they don't need abilities to move efficiently, so that they don't need AoE to kill efficiently and so that they don't need to abuse defensive abilities to stay alive.

    Well, but I'm in the minority here, because I don't always use the easiest cheapest way to play the game and I don't see it changing.


    *Edit: I think that there are bad designed enemies (manics for example), but not every slightly more challenging enemy is bad designed.

  2. That is because most of the community is really hypocritical.

    On the one hand you want to have actually challenging enemies, that can hunt you down, are not easy to shut down and just in general a bit more challenging. And on the other you see complaints about every gamemode and enemy that is not dead in one shot. This whole game is just one big winning simulator and people don't want to have enemies that can pressure you like this.

    • Like 1
  3. 42 minutes ago, Wrikster said:

    Ah but atleast they would have a chance of fighting back. Because they would actually be able to see their target and place their crosshairs on them. I have seen way too many people abuse the movement to bypass the need for actual skill. When you're constantly bullet-jumping you're not using other skills like hiding and aiming. You can easily flit across the map with an Ignis lighting everyone up.

    Of course, nerfing the movement alone will not work. You'll need to combine it it with restricting the usage of all but a select few weapons. So your long-range hitscan weapons can have less representation compared to quirky, short-range weapons.

    Expect that they wouldn't be able to. Stamina would not make it easier for you to aim. Players would still be able to move with a similar speed like now. Astamina system changes how often you can use that speed. So let me ask an easy question: when you can't use your speed all the time, then when will you use it? When you need it. So essentially in an exchange you would still have one player that moves and the other that does not. Of course you could argue that after a certain time, the moving player has to slow down eventually. But would the newbie last that long? The answer is no. A not moving target is dead in an instant. 

    So a typical exchange would now be: Player A moves at high speed around the map and randomly sees Player B. He rushes over and then procedes to get a surprise attack at the not moving player B. That kills him in an instant, because a not moving target is so easy to hit.

    And a typical exchange with stamina would be: Player A moves around at a low speed and randomly sees Player B. He moves a bit closer to be able to rush over and get a surprise attack and again killing player B in an instant, because a not moving target is so easy to hit.

    • Like 1
  4. 15 minutes ago, Wrikster said:

    Perfect! Isn't that exactly how PvP should be? You don't need to play Conclave 24/7 to be decent at it, but if you want to excel, you'll have to put in the effort. This ensures that newbies don't get wrecked in a second, while vets actually get rewarded for their dedication.

    [...]

    Except, that newbies still would. You would not be decent, if everyone else moved a little less. You still don't aim well. You still don't move well. You still get matched with all kinds of skill levels. The only thing that limits your success in pvp is your own ability and skill. You simply underestimate that only the player that move the worst would be more decent. The vast amount of players would get limited movement, while not getting more success.

    • Like 1
  5. 57 minutes ago, Wrikster said:

    I watched the full video, and I don't see how this is a problem.
    Because: 1) Most of these super-advanced techniques have bullet-jumping in them. So if you can't bullet jump freely, it makes these sort of pointless. How much stamina a bullet jump consumes can be decided on by the community and DE. And as I said in my post, all Conclave mods will be removed. (Ok now that I think about it I only implied mods being removed from weapons. I'll edit it). Everyone will be on a level playing field.

    2) Just because a couple of players can do insane stuff like this doesn't mean we should balance the game around them. Quake had everyone rocket-jumping all over the map, and that didn't stop it from becoming one of the greatest PvP games of all time. The changes I suggested are vastly more restrictive than rocket jumping. Besides, it would be far better than whatever we have now. Just because a solution is not a miracle cure doesn't mean that it shouldn't be considered at all.

    [...]

    About 1):
    That is not quite the point. By implementing stamina you would implement a new skill bar of how well you learned to use stamina. Essentially this would force players to learn how to minimize their stamina consumption while retaining as much mobility as possible. So the ones who would be the least affected by a stamina system are the ones, that move the most efficiently and the ones that don't move enough to even notice stamina. 

    So would does it mean? The skill ceiling to the best players (good movement) increases. You need more practice to be a good player. The skill floor to the worst players (that don't move) decreases. You need less practice to be a mediocre player. The difference between being a bad player and a slightly less bad player is smaller. And the difference between a good player and an actually good player is bigger. That means that you need a little less practise to not be bad, because everyone got worse in a thing that you are not able to do well. But on the same time you would need a lot more work to actually be mediocre or even good due to a new skillset that you have to learn on top of the movement system that you need to learn anyway for Conclave.

    => If you want to reduce movement even more, then it would have to be in a way, that you cannot learn how to work around it, if it is for the purpose of skill gap reduction (= no soft restriction like stamina).

    About 2.):
    But it does not help if you replace this "insane" thing (constant high velocity movement) with another "insane" thing ("stamina management").
     

  6. 13 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

    It's not that you have changed your stance.  More that you acknowledged points made by others instead just blindly ignoring them in your replies.  That shows strength of character.  

    In general a lot of pvp players don't ignore the points, that pve players make. It's rather that the discussions we have in the forums are often too emotional. The choice of words one makes has a great impact on what you consider to be acknowledging a point. I have been guilty of this myself in the past (I don't know if someone remembers me from 2 years ago ^^).

    What I (and probably you too) can appreciate about Kontrollo is that he is actually very careful with his choice of words and just in general well spoken. On top of that he answers calmy, when someone reacts negatively to his posts. That is something that both pve and pvp players very rarely seem to do in these heated discussions.

     

    The conclave players have a really simple stance on all of this actually:

    • We want balanced pvp (both mechanics and matchmaking).
    • We don't want to force anything on anyone.
    • We want rewards for what we do, but we are also content with small ones.
    • We want a bridge between pve and pvp (that is why Stalker mode is so popular).

     

    • Like 2
  7. 12 minutes ago, SnoozecoopYT said:

    Hey guys what's up. First time writing on Warframe forums so bear with me...

    Yo, you can use paragraphs and don't have to make everything with big letters. Noone wants to read your thread like this ^^'.

    See:

    Spoiler

    Hey guys what's up. First time writing on Warframe forums so bear with me.

    So I feel like the speed in Warframe should get a re-buff what do you guys think.  1.00 Sprint speed isn't enough for surviving long endurance runs I can tell you that much. Well of course we have RUSH, ARMORED AGILITY and SPRINT BOOSTS. But to me those are useless you know. Well for Volt players those are useful MODS in my opinion but for other players like me I feel like these mods are useless they took up space in your MOD slots.

    Take for example Nidus or Rhino or other frames with 1.00 speed as their default speed. Running feels heavy it feels like carrying a Grattler at your back I mean so hard to run and evade attacks you see what I'm saying. And of course again we have Bullet Jumping to me which is not good enough. We need that extra speed to survive and run around you know dodging bullets and that flexibility.

    I feel like DE need to buff the default sprint speed to at least 1.30 or 1.45 sprint speed. RUSH alone took up lots of space in your slot. ARMORED AGILITY gives you 15 extra speed and 45 additional armor which is meh to me. And SPRINT BOOSTS? Useless MOD. PHYSIQUE and other AURA MODS are better like STEEL CHARGE, CORROSIVE PROJECTIONS etc.

    But this is just a suggestion though. But what do you guys think should the speed get a buff to at least 1.30 or better 1.45? Or should it stay on the default 1.00. But like I said this is just a suggestion. For me more speed more flexibility can help a lot surviving. That extra speed can help you bullet jump longer and higher. TY any reply would be appreciated.

    About your actual suggestion:
    Nah, not necessary. Learn to use parkour and every frame has more or less the same speed.

    • Like 3
  8. I find this thread hilarious. It shows quite clearly that toxicness is not connected to any pve or pvp gameplay, but much more to people feeling dicontent with anything. But make no mistake, while I support the idea of a Stalker Mode, I still agree with some of OP's points, that the gameplay so far isn't all that great.

  9. It wasn't as bad as you think. It was just terribly unbalanced and balanced at the same time. Unbalanced in the sense that the ttk of every weapon was under 1 sec. Balanced in the sense that everything was so overpowered that it didn't really matter what you used once you had the mods for it. You often just build full defense in the hopes you survive just one shot.

    In a sense you just jumped around like some crazy crack space ninja assassin and tried to oneshot each other. Tho it is easy to understand why it wasn't very well liked due its really unbalanced and beginner unfriendly nature.

    Just searched a video of it and I think this one shows how it looked like, if you had some experience with it (I don't like the music tho):

    Spoiler

     

     

  10. Your ideas are kinda meh undependently of the actual need for this kind of change. Unairu is way too overpowered and the other ones way too weak compared to the energy dash of zenurik. Just think about it for a second ... Unairu would be 190 extra energy for your Warframe that regenerates itself automaticly in a few seconds. The other ideas need specific conditions and are not nearly as convenient as both energy dash and your op unairu suggestion.

    • Like 1
  11. That's not really what I am saying ... You can propose as many buffs and tweaks as you want, if the way a Warframe plays sucks, then people will not start enjoying the frame once it gets buffs. They will only like the power and move on, once there is a better option. Reworks should be used to make something enjoyable, buffs to make something viable.

  12. Heyho,

    this goes to both DE and the community here. I am sincerely concered about all the threads and all the talk about reworks, because most of them simply are not reworks. First of all you have to ask yourself what a rework is. And imo this is quite clear:

     

    A significant change in the way a Warframe plays with the conservation of his/her previous role as a playable character.

     

    A rework should first foremost change how a Warframe plays. It does not mean that the Warframe will be buffed or nerfed, you just change how his abilities are used. With that in mind the goal of a rework should always be to remove toxic and boring play. But what we see more and more often, that these things get confused with each other. Not only by the community, but also by DE. The reworks that were last seen were just straight up buffs. Let me explain on the example of Nyx and Titania, where one was a (small) rework and the other was a buff:

    - Nyx has mostly changed how play. Your 1 minion actually has influence as a kind of "turret" on the game now and your 2 bolts have a use against especially tough enemies, where before you did not cast either at all. But her change to her 4 does not change much of how she plays, therfor isn't really part of her "rework". While these changes are not as impactful as you might have liked, they still change how Nyx is played. Undependently of her small rework, she might need buffs or nerfs to her abilities, but this is at least some kind of rework attempt, succesful or not.

    - Titania is different tho. Her base energy is higher - buff; you don't need to cast her 2 as often - buff; her 3 can best casted and uncasted on multiple enemies - buff, her 4 has a vacuum - buff. Does this change in any way how she is played? It is still tedious af to keep your buffs up, you still don't cast her lantern, because it unreliable, Pixy mode still feels lackluster. This is not a rework, this is a buff.

    My plea for the community and for DE is to actually think about how the changes they propose, will change the playstyle in a direction that is benifcial for the fun of playing a Warframe. I read too often things like "increase movement speed from 0.9 to 1" or "increase duration from 8 sec to 10 sec" and people calling it "rework". It is not wrong to call for buffs, if an ability is underperforming, but reworks should be used to fix toxic and boring playstyles.

  13. It's kinda the appeal of Warframe that you kill lots of enemies and get yourself gear for exactly that. It's also not that bad as long as you don't min max everything and just jump in and have fun for a few missions. But it gets repititive if you actually want to maximize your efficiency. Over the years I often saw players (myself included) that got into this mindset (how do I get my stuff the fastest way) and just stopped playing, because the game felt boring. 

    In a sense it is showing, that it is a relatively mindless horde shooting game, but it was always there. Imo it's more a mentality thing that you should be careful to not get into. It will not affect you all that much, if you actually experiment yourself what you can use. Just don't into the meta slave addiction.

    I think the following part is quite controversial, so pls bear with me. I think that it is true that Warframe is really bad teaching the players what you actually can do with your frame, movement and guns. I know it is really unpopular and at this point I also don't enjoy it anymore, but Conclave shows this perfectly to me. Even if you don't like the gameplay there, you can see, that in pve you actually never have to move fast and precise with your parkour. You don't have to actually learn to aim properly too. The gameplay there sucks in conclave, but the players there show, that there is so much more in terms of moving and aiming potential in Warframe, that you simply never see and need in pve. 

  14. 29 minutes ago, Keirox said:

    This is at least a decent answer.

    I know, it took a lot of effort to write all this down, but there are literally 3 people every week that do exactly the same thread with exactly the same points. I just said to what it comes down to why these solutions will not work in my first reply ...

    29 minutes ago, Keirox said:

    But i don't really get it when you say "The core problem is that the whole appeal of pvp (and especially this pvp) is so different from the whole pve appeal" It's not like you play another game when you go into the Conclave, it is ? Same movements system, weapons etc. It's just like a hardcore mode with adapted mods and you play against other players.

     

    "I don't think that all your ideas are wrong in itself, we just cannot have them" Is it that hard to make the Conclave (PvP)  appear when you login ?  Also remove the gamemodes that no one play so the players that usualy loose theirselves in the waiting room of Lunaro can join an Annhiliation game?

    Not gonna say again my ideas, but i'm pretty sure most of them are simple to do (maybe not adding the mix of pvp/pve gamemode)  and can make a big difference. 

     

    We just need that the devs make Conclave a real part of the game, instead of just a Minigame that don't even reward players; Rewarding people playing conclave with PvE items / credits will not make people farm more in PvP, this will just make them feel like not playing for nothing in Conclave. Remember most people play warframe for PvE, so if they can have some ressources like relics or whatever, without breaking the PvE modes that people are used to farm in. 

    It's quite easy: pve and pvp feel completely different. Even if you have similar abilities, movement and weapons, they do not feel like the same game. It's like playing different iterations of a game. Just think about how different encounter frequency, ability usage, need for movement and aiming are between pve and pvp in Warframe. It's just not the same appeal.

     

    Yes, you cannot do that. You don't want to force players to play pvp, you want them to have a refreshing experience. Pvp should not get in the way of your enjoyment, but instead become an optional part of it. Rewards can be part of a gamemode, that people like and should be. But you will not make a gamemode liked only because of the rewards, especially if it is pvp, that is disliked in this community. And we already had a pvp/pve mix (called Dark Sectors), but it suffered from the old problems of modding, but I don't know how it would fare these days.

     

    I agree that Conclave is not part of the game, but you have to be careful how to implement it into the game. It already has a bad reputation and it can easily get even worse.

  15. 43 minutes ago, Keirox said:

    I'm probably older than you.

    So you here to say fck the conclave or how it is ?

    I hate those people who come just to argue about the solutions proposed without even offer new solutions;

    The Conclave is actually dead, and like it or not, there is something to do with it to fix that. 

    Well, I did not say anything about your age ... The format is just too overedited and it reminded me of something from my time in school.

     

    Nah, not necessarily. I would love to see Conclave thrive, but this will not be something, that is easily achieved. The core problem is, that the whole appeal of pvp (and especially this pvp) is so different from the whole pve appeal. You know, Warframe is more like an rpg with shooter elements in pve. Where as in pvp it's the other way around (a shooter with rpg elements). The problem here is, that the aspects of a pve rpg game translate bad into a pvp shooter one. 

    There are a few aspects, that need to be adressed to make conclave possible:

    - Connect the mechanics, that you test in pve more to the ones in pvp. Pve players feel disconnected from any pvp content rightfully so. 

    - Matchmaking has to be done, it is the single worst reason why matches are often onesided and feel unfun. You see this in other games under the term "smurfing". It is extremely easy to stomp unexperienced players. You even feel the difference between a player, that wins 50% of his matches and one that does 55% of his.

    - Provide pve gamemodes, that encourage the improvement of essential pvp skills (fast aiming and fast, precise parkour)

     

    The 2. point can't be adressed, until there are enough pvp players to make it worthwhile to install servers only for matchmaking. But the other ones can and should. The only way to make pvp more popular is to first make a bridge to the widely liked pve content. I don't think that all your ideas are wrong in itself, we just cannot have them right now. Conclave right now is just not a part of Warframe.

    You have to think about all this like Archwing. The mode was not popular in the beginning. I did not like it and I remember the forums, when it came out: you mostly got the Archwings for the mastery and never used it again. Now they are part of Warframe. You use them, you don't mind using them. Sure you will not often go into a pure Archwing mission, but you don't mind to have an Archwing in the Plains or in Orb Vallis, do you? You don't mind playing with a sharkwing here and there, do you? In that way, I think, that "your" idea (that has been around for years) to also fight pve enemies while fighting players is an important step in the whole process. We just have to figure out how to impement it. So therefor our effort should mostly go into how to make Conclave feel like Warframe.

  16. Reading this reminds me of the kids in school that marked the whole page and couldn't summarize at all ...

    1.) Rewards won't change, beause pve players will go nuts, if there is anything that you can farm better in pvp than pve that is not useless pve content

    2.) Gameplay won't change, because the only thing that makes pvp special is the parkour. Also it will kill the mode for every experienced conclave player. Btw, if you did not know: It's already nerfed massively, if you compare the movement with pve movement.

    3.) There is a reason why we cannot use pve mods in pvp ... They are way too op. Before this conclave, you had 2 options: either go full defense frame with a oneshot weapon (in the hope you survive one hit) or go full ability oneshot frame (think about  a fully modded Mesa Peacemaker).

  17. I really don't know why people are hating Limbo. While I admit that it is a little bit clunky to use his first ability, everything else in his kit is just superior to his pre rework version. Dashing in and out of the rift is a cool mechanic and not even close to disturbing as some players make it sound. It is just part of his kit imo. Also he does dmg and has cc now, that is huge step forward ... I'm satisfied with his rework and will play him a lot more now :) .

  18. This is just a problem of endless missions in general ...
    They are not rewarding at all and void missions were a little exception. But there is literally no reason to do them anymore after the change. I understand your point of view, because I also did like to do these missions to test how far I could come, but it also got boring to always play on the same tileset.

  19. Just look at the pvp sub forum and pick any already existing thread about this topic and put your opinion into it.
    All important arguments were already mentioned there dozens of times.

    If you lower the mobility, than average players will get destroyed even more. Just think about it: what is harder to learn? Move at a decent speed to be hard to hit or getting a good aim? Of course the first one. The often mentioned skill gap between players due to the lack of matchmaking will be even more obvious this way. There will be players who just wreck you on sight and you won't be able to do a thing against it. The players, who did not learn the mobility system and who have a bad aim, will still be the worst ones. Why do you think that the ones with the best aim can use really tanky frames? Because they don't need the mobility to wreck you: better survivability is more important for them.

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