Intotsu

I have been playing him a lot and been having a mixed-to-good experience. It was effective when it worked but there were several times when it flat out didn't because of architecture and the fact that my playstyle makes liberal and near-constant use of the parkour system (so I may have cast a second too late/early for optimal positioning). I already have a topic on this, but that's been my only gripe with his nerfs. I'm glad LoS is improving, but it feels particularly not great on him for a number of reasons.

To be fair, for the most part, while you and maybe others may have gone into more detail before, most of the time I have read that "It feels bad" without the detail of specifically why it feels bad. Maybe it is because as a concept it may seem like it should be obvious to us players (and especially to the designers), but i thought starting an article to articulate the difficulty would help. For me, fantasy and theme are enough to cover a lot of my enjoyment a lot of the time. And while i really feel like the effectiveness is significantly lost (by the time I get into an ideal position its often a situation where my allies have their weapons primed and firing sometimes), I make do in other areas. I get attached to frames regardless of effectiveness due to pure theming alone. Nezha was the frame I bought immediately upon getting access to the store as a new player because I loved the idea of being a frame designed around the power of a young demi-god (once i learned about the actual myth of Nezha I liked it even more). The fact that Nezha has consistently been one of the most powerful frames in the game (at least since I started playing him, which was post rework) was merely a bonus. I like Wisp as a spy frame more than I like her as a support frame, and I like Citrine as a support frame more than most others. The point being, Dante just as a concept and through gameplay will be a frame I'll play for a while regardless. But the distinct discomfort I've felt post-nerf is if I play him as i would normally, I run a higher risk of just... wasting energy casting Tragedy. And the thing is, I WANT to keep moving, because its fun, and what I enjoy about playing the game the most. This iteration of line of sight makes it difficult to do that, and that, in my opinion, is what makes it feel bad. I've gotten back to the game after a week of allergies and work, and it essentially confirmed that for me.

Hello to all, Forgive me for the somewhat provocative title, but I'm one of the players who also played Dante on release, loved him, saw the rapid nerfing, hated it (but mostly the LoS addition), and has been following the many, many (MANY) discussions on this topic. The reason I bring up this title is that, despite the fact that I've been following this discussion for a while, I haven't seen this particular part of the Line of Sight addition that makes it feel particularly bad, which is the following combination of things. Warframe is a (highly) mobility focused game Despite being slow, Dante is a Mage themed warframe designed with the above in mind. This, to my mind, is the particular difficulty of adding line of sight to the mix when it comes to Dante. Like most warframes with abilities, Dante is designed to use his abilities on the move. And in nearly all cases they work well for use on the move. Noctua is a weapon, and all weapons are designed to be used on the move. Light verse applied to all allies linked by affinity to you (Same with Triumph) making it more reliant on proximity than movement. Dark verse applies to essentially the enemies you're looking at, meaning if you miss you need to change your aim and cast again. Pageflight relies on personal proximity since the birds always fly near you and Wordwarden functions with affinity range on casting again. This of course leaves Tragedy as the odd one out. Because for Tragedy, being a primary damage dealing ability that triggers off of damaging status effects, movement can mess up things royally when Line of sight is involved. One of the best aspects of this game is the movement system. Were it up to me as a designer, I would make the continued use of the parkour system the primary means of evading damage across the board as it is the most fun aspect of the system and also makes the most sense in my head. That being said, one cool thing to do when you play any warframe is casting/shooting attacking on the fly with an airglide to deal damage to enemies and follow it it up to continue moving as you attack enemies continuously, regardless of how you do it. With Dante, doing the priming with other spells/attacks and then casting a devastating Tragedy was cool because, regardless of position, as long as you primed enough enemies in preparation, you didn't have to worry about making sure you were in a prime position to deal damage, only that you had done the preparation. Now, was this insane in how fast you could clear things when not at a high level? absolutely. I would never have put base damage on something that hit enemies as far as you could with Dante (I put Stretch on him so... his already wide range became gigantic), or at most it would be 1 damage so i could use it to find out enemy positions or something. But in principle it works better that way. However, adding Line of Sight makes positioning important, yes, but not in a way that can be easily quantified. LoS is the only reason I have had any issues with Plunder from the new and improved Hydroid for example. I cant tell you how many times I tried to either renew or set up a pillage armor boost only for it to be something as mediocre as 200 armor because, despite being surrounded by enemies, only a few of them had their armor stolen due to either geometry or, worse, my model being slightly too low to target them. The better LoS should improve this (one can hope, but it kind of emphasizes the point. For a LoS ability which originates around your character, if it is a single burst effect you want to be: In a set position for the burst (so you want to stop your momentum temporarily) that is ideal (not impeded by the setting or geometry) If a LoS ability is omnidirectional, you can't fully take into consideration the structures around you, especially while moving, to determine the most effective location to cast it. Not easily, not in a game like Warframe which encourages movement. This is the primary reason why LoS feels so bad on Dante. As a caster-frame with a Mage theme, his abilities are emphasized and require a multi-step process. Making the payoff for that process uncertain due to elements of the game that are both fundamental and encouraged feels discouraging. To this end, I add my vote to the following suggested change in this forum: DE, please reduce the base damage of Tragedy to 0 or 1 (for scouting purposes) and remove the Line of Sight requirement. (P.S: I know this discussion may be obvious, I just haven't seen it directly talked about as a reason for the discomfort with the LoS change)