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ByroSphere

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  1. You know, I think a big part in what turns new players of from Conclave, is pretty much how different it feels like from the main game. Namely how in the main game you mostly only go against groundbound or slow moving enemies, while any PvP fight is bractically the opposite, without anything inbetween preparing players that are used to the former to be able to deal with enemies of the latter... So how about including some boss that forces players to use their parkour whilst fighting it, and have that be a requirement to unlock conclave? It could be a flying boss thar you fight in a groundless area were the only things you can do to avoid falling down, is wall jump through pillars layed across the stage. Otherwise I think that the fact that all 4 game modes uses separate lobbies are more of a downer, because it's very easy to miss a match in 1vAll, Team or Cephelon when you are waiting for an empty Lunaro match, vice versa. People that want to play 100% fair matches with as little overwhelming advantages as possible, should get their restrictive matches were only balanced gears are allowed.. But sometimes, one really just wants to use one's pve gear from the main game too, so a game mode/filter were you are allowed to use your usual gear would be nice too. The Conclave is already suffering because it's isolated from the rest of the game, making it even more isolated by not just changing the game tactics, but also game mechanics, will only isolate it further without solving any problems.
  2. In cluding new pvp modes that plays different from Warframe does sound interesting... But the thing is, those all different modes shouldn't act as replacements if they are not going to play anything like current Conclave, let a lone the rest of Warframe... When that's basically what many people tend to suggest as a "solution" for the Conclave's problems. I mean, I personally am all for new modes, but I think the priority should be on making the existing game modes more attractive and accessible, instead of including something completely different that needs it's own maintenance separate from the rest of the game. Cause the particular problems with the Conclave are the following: 1. It's a fairly small community, so time and region will affect a lot how frequently some players might get a match compared to others. 2. The already small community is practically asked to splinter themselves further with the existing 4 game modes, because they each have completely separted lobbies from each other, so people that invest on new and different modes like Lunaro or Cephalon, are likely to miss out on matches altogether, because most pvp players will generally prefer classic 1vAll. 3. The Conclave functions differently from the maingame, so it requires additional maintenance unique to itself, when DE has been fairly neglectful towards it, since most of the attention goes to the main PvE content only. 4. The Conclave is also always behind the main game in terms of frames and weapons because of said differences. So players that want to test out the new gear, are all essentially forced to do so elsewhere, until it gets rebalanced to fit in Conclave specifically.... Which might take ages if it happens at all. 5. There is a lack for any real sense of progression, because most of the rewards you get in the conclave, can only work on the minigame that is Conclave... Despite being every bit as grindy as the main game, which has more worthwhile rewards. 6.There is a lot of ping problems due to the lack of any dedicated server. 7. On top of all those problems, the Conclave has a steep learning curve which will throw most of the newbe players off guard, cause the main game gives very little preparation for high mobility fights. So... yet another game mode, wether it be 1vall with some added flavor, or something that plays completely differently, probably won't change the situation much, unless more fundamental stuff changes first. Which things we should prioritize is open for discussion.... But I think a game merger would be a good start.
  3. Well, in that case, there could be some kind of ranking system so that even when people are allowed to use whatever they want, they are essentially pitted against players that are around the same league as themselves. Otherwise, the only factors I'd consider restricting/modifying are stuff that makes you impossible to kill/defend yourself, cause it's not a true death match if not all players are suspect to death >:P With that said, I wonder how none-death-matchy game modes like Lunaro would play like with PvE mods and Warframe abilities. Well, the Opticor only matches could be a game mode on it's own right included into the mixer soup I had in mind, altough you could also probably organize a invited match were players only use Opticors throughout the whole match (assuming it's whitelisted in Restricted, or if everyone owns an Opticor in Freedom). Otherwise the stages could be layered with random weapons and frames that you might switch/equip mid battle. In a game mode that is all about balance, all players should have equal access to all enabled arsenal, after all. The ability to switch between a wider practical arsenal than just 3 weapons, would give it an extra flavor that a completely traditional PvP mode would lack (not counting peope that got more than 2 load outs). Been a looong while since I last played a Cephalon Capture (it was in a different platform too) so I'm not exactly aware with what problems it's facing, but yeah, the opticor mode, as well as any of the seasonal conclave modes should def make a comeback. That's the idea, but now in big pvp rooms with conclave objectives! Wonder how many unpredictable ways players would find to break the game there ;^) Shadows of the Dead and Celestial Twin should work like normal, since they practically are nothing more but glorified spectres (which I also allow). Wukong's passive abilities however that allows him to avoid death, should be nerfed to be triggered when reaching below 30% health instead of acting as a death save outright (attacks that would kill him, should simply kill him). While the Cosmic Armor that would make him invulnerable for 30 seconds, should be changed to instead give him a fairly high armor buff instead (specific numbers/percentages are open for discussion). All of the brainwashing abilities should be treated as radiation attacks with a high chance for status effect, while all types of abilities that restricts player's movement for longer than a simple knockdown animation (including Sleep Quiver, Rest, Bastille, Condemn etc) should act as if they afflict slow instead of complete restrain, otherwise having the status effects they normally would have. I second this. Think it'd be neat to have a version of it outside of conclave though. Turning it like some sort of player vs player faction conquest mode, not too different from the Solar Rails, but available in wide territories for all tilsets, with none of the time/mineral costs that it took to build a Solar Rail.
  4. Was thinking along the lines of just disabling all warframe powers so that players can still use their favorite frame, even if it's just for the looks. Though, if we are going to limit warframes as well with their powers allowed... How about adding some spots in the stage that spawns a Warframe that player can change into midmatch? The idea essentially is, since all of the gear available in the Restricted mode, is going to be limmited into a carefully planned and balanced list, the players might as well have access to all the stuff in that list for said balance, including things that they don't have in their own arsenal. It'd be especially fun if the randomly generated frames/weapons also came with randomly generated colors/skins to give it a special flavor. Though I think this should only be applied into 1vAll/Team Annihilation/Cephalon Capture matches, cause they use fairly big areas with lots of hiding spots. The Lunaro which is mostly a straighforward open plane without any weapons, should just have the player use their own frames like normal. This definitly sounds like a fun idea. Just hope that there is a long brake of "normal" matches inbetween the nightmare hours, cause well, altough nightmares can be fun experiences, the main point with the Freedom Mode is give the players the freedom to pvp in anyway they'd like/can. When a constant nighmare with it's limiting conditions kinda contradicts that in a general sense. That said, I like your idea. Now that you mention MOBAs, how does a PvP variation of the defense mission sound? Basically have a match consisting of two teams that got to destroy the other's defense target whilst protecting their own, all while rivlaing NPCs (Grinneer vs Corpus for ex) go around assisting either side (maybe Sun are the Grinneer and Corpus are the Moon?). Balanced matches certainly are great for the average test of skill, tho some funky alternative where skill aint everything could offer some nice change of pace as a pass time.
  5. Did the unrestricted gear also include gear items like health packs, npc assistance, the element of the teleporting operators as well as anywhere as many defensive mods as nowadays? Cause I imagine there are far more items and builds that counterplay each other nowadays than it did in beta. There also is a higher entertainment value because there are more things you can experiment with now, than in the past, while unrestricted Conclave was a greater taboo because the unrestricted matches were the only pvp options available. I think something like the Freedom mode will be the most acceptable when there is a more balanced alternative right next to it, cause sometimes people want to be op even in pvp, but it should never be at the expense of any option for a straightforward, fair fight (hence why I recommend 2 separate modes). Yeah, there definitely needs to be a ranking system. Cause even if we say we don't want our gear nerfed or changed beyond recognition, one would still like to face people that one can keep up with, wether it be by having gear that closes the skill gap, or by beating better geared opponents with superior skill (that's bragging rights you wouldn't have in a 100% balanced match). How about if the starting match rank was based off your MR, but then went higher or lower depending on additional performance? MR20 should start off very high in the scale, cause they presumably have a lot of mods and other perks that gives loads of advantages, but then rank lower if they die way more often than they kill. Much like how a MR5 should start off low, but if they prove their worth, then they should be able to play against the big boys. Yeah hopefully. Though, I'd prefer to keep the nerf to a minimum and only apply it to weapons that utterly destroys everything else. Otherwise I'd only suggest to exclude them for the balanced Restrictive matches, but otherwise let them be used normally in Free matches much like it's used everywhere else. I share the same sentiment for the most part. The current Conclave stages are already big enough that sometimes you could spend a quarter of the match running around without finding your opponents. So Id generally suggest against larger maps unless the conclave becomes more popular and somehow gets a higher player count. Couldn't agree more.
  6. Pretty sure Equinox relays on you accumulating damage for it to be lethal, while the average Tenno is too mobile for you to stack up enough damage, unless you already had enough dps to overkill them twice, maim can otherwise be ignored. Can't Ember's 4 be dodged with a bullet jump? There is roughly a second delay after it's casting before it falls into the position of a target. Unless it's homing I'd say it's manageable, although how does it compare to a maxed out armor build? Banshee's build may have crazy range and is spammable, but it's mostly ground borne, the knockout effect as a cooldown so recovery is possible, while it makes her unablec to move in the midst of it (read; easy pickings for snipers/jumping players). As for the operators, you do know that your warframe loses a chunk of their health every time the operator dies, right? Combine that with the "no invulnerability rule", essentially means no i-frame when going back into frame nor when void dashing/invisible (so unless you are careful, you could die twice instantly). With that said, I guess stun abilities like Magus Lockdown can be fairly op, especially with it's sleep effect. So, how about if all paralysis/sleep abilities caused slow instead? It's alright for it to be strong, so long as it's possible escape the assault and return the favor. With that said, since operators are supposed to be able to enter the field the Freedom mode should probably only be available to people that have cleared The War Within to play it.
  7. Everything doesn't have to be super balanced tho. You could either make a game mode that is explicitly about leaving the balance of everything other than wether or not you can killed,-out of the window, or you just restrict everything unbalanced and only enable stuff that can be controlled. That's essentially the idea with the Freedom/Restrictive modes. People that play Freedom, are people that are supposed to have abandoned any pretense of fairness, and generally just want to have fun with the stuff they have, in any way they possibly can. While Restrictive mode is there for anyone who just wants to play on even terms, with appropriate general restrictions. This could make Conclave more integrated to the game, since your Warframes would play a lot more like the main game instead of a special reworked version of it. Heck, general rewards like gears, relic and riven mods would become more relevant than ever because they directly affect the Freedom mode, so there is more of a reason to include them into the Conclave shop. While all of the current Conclave exclusive mods, can be made into general mods, since then there would be no technical differences between the conclave and the rest of the game.
  8. There would be a higher chance of getting a match because now you only have to select between 2 modes instead of 4. While you could play as any Warframe as you'd like, because Freedom Mode would have you basically play with your usual loadouts without much modifications (no need to wait for rebalance patches, besides the ones done in general). While the Restrictive mode applies a general restriction, so it doesn't take as much time to integrate new frames. I'd also assume that more people would try out Team Annihilation, Cephalon and Lunaro, because in this case you only choose them after forming up a lobby with players, instead of relaying on chance to choose a match that is likely empty.
  9. Banshee/Ember/Equinox might be op in PvE, because they can clear out an area of grunts in seconds, but the players are less like grunts and more like highly mobile bosses, they probably could tank/avoid some of the AoE and take those frames out before dying themselves. Include the operators and gears into the mix and you could see the birth of more game tactics besides bulletjumping + spray & pray. PvPvE mode also sounds like fun, but if it's going through a balancing process like in the present, then it'd still mean that you will have to wait ages to play as the latest warframes, with some being undisputably op,and no way to filer it ingame. At least my suggestion involves splitting the crazy stuff into a separate mode, with better balance in another.
  10. As things are now, not only does The Conclave have a population problem with it being very hard to get a match in most game modes, but there is also a constant issue with the balancing, both from the aspect that people who want to play fair will have a hard time getting that, while it generally just takes too much time integrate new warframes and weapons as it's generally difficult to rebalance them in general. So my suggestions are to ditch this rebalance process altogether and instead have a "Freedom mode" where you basically just pvp with all of your gear and abilities available, and a "Restrictive mode" where no frame abilities are allowed with the weapons being randomly generated/picked across the stage. Any other existing game modes like 1vAll, Lunaro and etc should all be merged into a mixer for the Freedom/Restrictive matches, with the players basically having to vote for either of those gametypes instead of stages. The Restrictive mode is meant for players that only want to play balanced matches without any overwhelming advantage, so players will be limited to only use a selective pool of pvp approved weapons. One random set of main/sub/melee that spawns for all players at the start, but with the rest appearing in Halo/Unreal Tournament-like spawn points that any player can take at the leisure, with the spots cycling through different weapons each time they are picked out. While the "Freedom mode" is supposed to appeal to players who just want to go crazy and try anything out. EVERYTHING, not just including the latest Warframes/Weapons but also gear like Health/Energy Packs, Drones, Air Strikes and Clem + Operator Powers and Riven mods, shall be enabled. The only modifications that should be enforced, is that no invulnerability is allowed (abilities like Valki's 4 that does so, will be changed to give armor buffs instead). Otherwise everything is supposed to work exactly like in the main game, balance be damned. Any thoughts?
  11. Well, a moba mode would at the very least be a breath of fresh air comapred to the average missions, while it'd function enough of a middle ground for those that want to give pvp chance, to try it without being completely wrecked. The conclave in PC might be underplayed in any mode other 1vAll, but it actually has a very stable playerbase in the Ps4 version, while also having a fairly vocal community that never stopped supporting it. To simply have it completely removed despite many people's support, especially when there have already been many years of neglect with the developers barely even trying to improve it in anyway, would be a rick move... to say the very least.
  12. Including somekind of Moba mode into the Conclave certainly does sound like a fun idea. It's pretty hard to get used to fighting highly mobile players, when most of the game only has you fighting slow/predictable tanks, but if you could kill easy target NPCs along the way, it might just give more players enough morale to go after the big fish as they crank up their kill count. The game already have plenty of maps that can be either just placed into the Conclave as is (practically all interception maps), or applied with some tweaks. So it shouldn't take much manpower to include this.
  13. Plenty on zeroes maybe, but I have found about an even number that have somewhere around 1-3k conclave standing, while some have gotten past a couple ranks beyond neutral. The conclave player base certainly is small enough that region and time matters a lot, but it still big enough that you can find matches regularly with a varying names of players in 1vall at the very least. It's more like Lunaro and Team battles that have really tough luck... But regardless, things really could use an improvement. Pve only players may not care about pvp content, but I don't see any reason for why that should mean we should just neglect the more pvp friendly players just to please them. There already is plenty of pve exclusive content already, so they are litterally the last people that are in any position to complain about "unfair treatment". Even if you do have a point in that it might not be a good idea in making game changing items Conclave exclusive, that doesn't mean that we should also exclude generally useful items from the conclave altogether. Well, even if you do, the average player wont, yet you still had the benefit of getting a spot that would encourage more players to try that strategy out. The conclave never was given that much consideration, and we are basically just asking to change that. The lack of rewards may not be the only problem with the conclave, but in a game that has dozens items and resources to farm everything, it certainly has a big impact to the frequency where the average player plays it... Because even if we say you find conclave decent, you still need to spend a lot of your play time elsewhere on the game to progress anywhere in it, because the conclave is literally cutoff from the rest of the game's progression (which is also part of the journey in what makes a game enjoyable). Rewards and progression may only be a secondary factor to the "fun part" in what should make a game enjoyable, but do you know the difference between Quake/Unreal and Warframe? Those aforementioned games do not have their pvp be essentially challenged by another game mode that is not only fun in it's own right, but also far more rewarding. Very few players may be hardcore enough to play conclave 24/7 or anything like that, but at least most of the people I meet up in the game are fine with it enough that they'd accept an invite sometime in the week. Conclave is generally not considered much but a pas time for players whom have done all content/really loves pvp, not because it's so terrible that only a minority enjoys it, but because everything else that is worth doing in warframe literally sucks up all of their playtime. And since Conclave, even when it's fun, isn't so much fun that it blows the PvE out of the water, while it lacks any significant sense of rewards or progression to compete with the rest of the game, it just wont do very well as a whole (and even then, it has shown that it's possible to have a stable number of active players, if the Ps4 version is any indication). Many more things besides giving the conclave a better gift pool certainly would be needed to be done for it rise it's popularity in a big way, but making it's reward pool more relevant would certainly be a step to the right direction... Why go against that?
  14. Was certain I saw the Wraith/Vandal weapon skins in Baro's shop, but I guess I mistook them for something else. With that said my point still stands. More players did come when the conclave offered exclusive skins, but that still is hardly anything compared to the dozens of relics, nitian, riven mods and potatoes you can get elsewhere. Warframe being primarily a PvE game is no excuse for it's PvP mode being irrelevant to the rest of the game, because it's still part of the game, and takes effort and time to invest in like everything else within in. So the Conclave should come with rewards that matter for the game as a whole, and not just skins (although still nice) or mods that only work in pvp. Most player may had not picked Warframe because it had Conclave specifically, but Im willing to bet that the majority of players were willing to try out the Conclave when they first heard about it. The Conclave's problem, is not the fact that it's pvp in a primarily pve game (it's actually fairly balanced in that aspect). The problem is that it's treated as it's "for fun only" in lootershooter game were you have to farm daily for every little thing. I mean, you wouldn't do Spy Missions to farm for relics when Defense and Excavations do it faster and better, right? So why think that the Conclaves lackluster offering list is not the problem when it has to compete with everything else?
  15. You say that people "took advantage" just to get the rewards, but why did they explicitly take advantage of the conclave, when it's neither the only source for said rewards, but also supposedly not worth playing? Warframe is first foremost a lootershooter, people may play pvp or pve, but the main element of enticement is the loot. While the conclave, for as fun it sometimes can be, simply does not offer enough rewards to make it relevant to the rest of the game. The fact that there is still players going into conclave, both casually as well daily, even when it's neglected as badly as nowadays, is only proof that it is worth improving. In either case, this whole "dont want to be forced to play" mentality is just complete bs, because we all know that not even you would invest in stuff like Fortuna more than once, if it was not because their rewards mattered to your gameplay.
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