Xenogear
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Posts posted by Xenogear
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Have the devs ev
Cover system ruins dynamics of FPP shooters.
It is a console game invention that has unfortunatley made its way to PC games. It turns games where you have to move and keep active to games where you pop out, shoot, pop back in. A shooting gallery.
Can it work well? Sure. Is it a neccesary element? Not at all. But it completly changes the dynamic.
You already can take cover. You already can pop in and out from behind obstacles. The difference is that you actually need to do those actions yourself, not have them performed by a sticky cover system. There is no arbitrary "I am in cover so I cannot get hit" mechanic, nor is there a "I can see everything around the corner without acutally sticking my head out" thing (to a certain degree at least) both of these are also factors in gameplay dynamics.
Luckily, the devs seem to agree on this.
Have the devs ever thought of it being a toggle option for people who enjoy that type of gameplay?
In other words, you toggle it on in your options menu, you have an option ingame to sticky to cover, toggle it off, you no longer have that option.
I honestly just think it adds to the variety of the way you can play the game. Having diversity is great!
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I think it would be a bad idea to have "stealth-only" missions.
Opening up more weapons (more silenced weapons, I suppose), mods (silence, camouflage, expanded freerunning?), or alternative routes (vents, crawlspaces, areas/boxes to hide in, secret roundabouts or shortcuts) and so on to allow for expanded stealth gameplay would be the best idea. Giving the player more options would be a better idea than funneling them into a stealth-only mission, thereby taking away their options.
Warframe seems to excel when it comes to openness and flexibility. Giving the player a wider range of choices -- rather than forcing them to work their way through less choices -- would seem to be the key to gameplay diversity.
Noted, and I love the idea of more mods and alternative routes, but ontop of all of that, wouldn't you want to have a mission that was somewhat taylored to your gameplay/warframe giving it a stealthy feel and the rush of not being caught? Then again they could just throw in "stealth bonus" or "invisible" type rewards at the end of some of the missions we have now, however I would think in its current state (such as the grouped enemies and the way the alarm system works) you would need additional missions taylored to this.
I would hate to force players to play a certain way, but I would love to be given the option to play a certain way as well !
Run n Gun warframe - Excalibur
Stealth Warframe - Ash
Tank Warframe - Rhino
Just more choices and additional ways to tackle the game.
Love the feedback guys :)
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If I simply want to do a run and gun and run through the levels and unfortunatly go into cover or whatever because the cover system is made like "if you go close to it, you go into cover" this simply stops the game flow.... If the cover actually would be good, ok, but i dont want to be interfered with in my playstyle ^^
I couldnt agree more dude :) It would definitely have to be somewhat of an option more than a "omg i hit the wall now im in cover even tho i just wanted to run past the wall"
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I read "tracking bullets" as "homing bullets." Sorry about that. Also, sorry for thinking you were new here, I somehow missed the "initiate" tag above your name. That's what, mastery rank 4? Well beyond "new."
In reply to your next post, we have a block mechanic now, which lets you deflect bullets with your melee weapon at the cost of stamina. Its automapped to mouse button 4, so you may not have noticed. I don't have a mouse button 4, so I didn't notice until I was checking the control mappings after I saw a thread about blocking. Blocking isn't a dodge move but its similar in function.
What DE really needs to do is fix the enemies' near instant reaction time. The seem to have given enemies a turning rate so you can circle strafe some enemies, but it doesn't do much against Grineer at mid range where their bullet's travel time doesn't matter much nor does their terrible accuracy.
Heh, no problem.
In my tests blocking almost does nothing in terms of reducing bullet damage, its extremely miniscule.. and this was on the first level being attacked by one person, if your being shot at by multiple mobs block really does nothing.
Enemies reaction time being lowered would definitely help alot, (like when they run up to the console and hit the alert button INSTANTLY and your trying to be stealthy )
Another reason taking cover would be a viable option is because when you "take cover" as of right now ingame, your warframe is very[size=3] susceptible to attacks coming from the right, left, and even above positions considering your warframe is not actually pressed up against what your trying to take cover behind.. You will still take fire.[/size]
Someone mentioned that they would hate to see "Press X to duck under cover" on the HUD - I couldnt agree more lol
Maby they could make it an option that you can turn off or on? Not sure if thats even possible haha
But again guys, this is a great debate and appreciate everyones feedback into the matter.
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It would simply destroy the fluid run and gun. its not supposed to be a cover game.....
it would just give a different approach to missions, a more tactical approach rather then run n gun, its just more ways to play the game. Would you rather have a game that theres only one way to tackle missions over and over and over.. or some variety in the ways you approach missions?
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A big no to a cover system. There are many games with a cover system so having Warframe without a cover system makes it even more unique. We're meant to be space ninjas who dodge bullets and speed through the battlefield instead of staying stationary in cover. I admit being fast doesn't give you much defense against bullets so we just need better dodge moves to be added into the game instead of adding a cover system. The devs added blocking which is a start although it doesn't really work very well at the moment.
The game already supports taking cover anyways and it works well for the most part.
Ooo better dodge moves... maby like warframes that can go "poof" like a "blink" dodge... would be interesting to see what they would come up with as far as different dodge mechanisms..
The blocking looks pretty neat for sure, but your absolutely right when you say it doesnt work very well at the moment, you still take quite a bit of damage even tho it looks like your blocking the bullets as you block, I think its more taylored torwards melee type hits but thats something I havent tried yet as when I am in melee range I'm more focused on tearing threw the enemy asap rather then blocking.
As far as a cover system it seems quite a bit of people do disagree with it, I think it would just add to the style of gameplay instead of straight run/slash n gun everything in your path and see if you make it on the other side alive.. it would be more of a tactical approach. Then again someone brought to my attention some melee type enemys would be a big problem.
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Well in all missions, enemy spawns are quite meager if the alarm hasn't been tripped. We just need more stealth options like making sounds to lure enemies. Like I said, the system just isn't polished yet.
true that :) it would be nice to have specific missions taylored to the stealth gameplay after it was polished tho, imo.
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Seems unnecessary to have missions that specifically needs stealth when you can apply an optional stealth playstyle to ALL missions. They just haven't worked out the quirks. (less random movements, being able to turn off alarms, stealth reward, etc) Also they've already added the Paris, a silent bow weapon and stealth attacks are already in the game. Just press E behind an enemy when you aren't detected and there is no alarm.
Being able to turn off alarms would be amazing haha, and the rate at which they are able to turn on the alarms once they hit the console is extremely quick..
And there is absolutely no way to apply full non detected stealth in "ALL" the missions.. theres just too many enemies that can see you at any given time when your trying to assassinate a target by using stealth in certain areas. Certain areas have an obscene amount of enemies all bunched up together, and theres no way to stealth those types of encounters.
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I dodge shots by rolling frequently enough, and I've never seen bullets homing in on me unless they were missles. Corpus and Grineer are pretty bad shots as well; they have a hard time hitting me across the open tilesets even when I'm standing still. They still hit, but a lot less shots from each burst hits. I think you just experenced a lag induced bug (which there are a lot of) if you saw bullets homing in on you. I'm not aware of it being a feature.
A cover system would also require redesigning a lot of enemies. For example, grineer flameblades would have to go because an enemy that teleports behind you would be infuriating when combined with a cover system that takes a moment to get out of cover. The flameblade would stagger you out of cover before you could react. Can you imagine the QQ? If you're too new to warframe to know what flameblades are, think Captain Vor (1st boss) as a standard enemy with less health and damage per level. I've seen them spawn two or three at a time on Sedna. If you don't know who Captain Vor is I suggest you play more and get a better feel for the game.
Ya some mobs would definitely be annoying as hell, and I never said "homing bullets" lol.. It just appears that if your being shot at and you roll, as your rolling trying to dodge those bullets the majority, if not all of them still hit you, same with trying to run to cover, Then again alot of the warframes have really awesome escape moves :) Such as Ash's Invisibility or even Volts Energy Shield, so I suppose thats something to note as well, It very well comes down to the player not to get themselves into such situations for sure, or being able to get out of them
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wouldnt work at all
Please by all means explain?
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Many common questions are covered in sticked threads across the forums. If you have a question about something that should be basic or common knowledge look around first. The search fucntion is also handy.
https://forums.warfr...8-warframe-faq/ The answer to your question is at the bottom of that post.
TL;DR: Ninja's don't need cover, we just move too fast to be shot (this actually does work against Corpus on the large tilesets).
Sorry for the double post then.. However I still think it would be a great addition and I'm sure others would agree.. Oh and for them to say "We just move too fast to be shot" Is absolutely ludacris.. for one distinct reason.
The bullet tracking.. It seems to me that more often then not, if your being shot at and your trying to dodge by "running" or "rolling" its not going to happen, your going to get hit because it appears to be almost impossible that once a bullet locks, unless you make it to "cover" somehow, your going to get hit, and you cannot dodge it simply by trying to move out of the way, this is where hideing behind cover would come into play.
I understand that it is probably NOT going to happen.. Which is sad, however its merely a suggestion.
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Just a suggestion for maby a new planet and it's levels or just some missions if any were to be added..
Full Assassination Missions - Stealth Required
This kinda rolls right along with the "Taking Cover" Post I posted in the General Suggestions today you can find that here. - https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19610-taking-cover/
With the addition of the insta-kill if undetected I think that it should go without saying that there HAS GOT to be some missions added later where stealth is key and if you are detected, you fail the mission!
These missions would have less minions as opposed to the "holy **** theres so many of them!" feel some of the missions have at the moment.
The mobs in these missions would have pre-determined destinations and rotate in a manner where the player would be able to recognize the patterns (or perhaps when re-entering the level it could be randomized) and essentially "assassinate" the targets
This could potentionally create awesome additions such as Silencer mods / Skins / Weapon attatchments Warframes and even specialized Killing Blows! that you could make, find or buy, that would be essential in not alerting the enemys.
Just a few suggestions, if anyone has any other suggestions.. FEEL FREE TO TACK EM ON!
Lets keep this rolling and it just might happen if you would like to see...
STEALTH REQUIRED MISSIONS
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not but I thought it should be addressed.
If there was some type of ingame mechanic where we can take cover, say pressing our backs against the wall or something similar and be able to aim over or around an obstacle while of course able to take fire ourselves would greatly improve the overall combat in this game, atleast imo. I'm not sure if its feasable since I have no idea how to code games lol.. But similar to other 3rd person shooters where if you move to one side of the obstacle, say the right side, the camera flips over to your right shoulder automatically, and vica versa.. In other words, Taking Cover just would be an all around awesome addition.
Taking Cover
in General
Posted
Stealth ... Mission maby?! https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/19618-assassination-missions-stealth-required/ lol