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  1. Yes, I agree in essence. It's just a thing to keep in mind that a more linear damage scale offers a much narrower range of damage output. Level 1 to level 10k needs to fit between Braton Mk1 with flawed and fully tricked out top-end weapons. That is a lot of scaling! Ok, ok, again: a mod providing multishot or firerate can definitely increase dps. There is absolutely no problem with that! After all, it is what they do now, but without being explicit about it. If a mod increases your dps, why not clearly let it state by how much? What is the upside in being opaque or more importantly making it an automatic consequence of increasing multishot and the like Because there are definitely more upsides to separating the fire/multishot increase and the damage increase besides transparency. Like opening a lot of design space! Multishot + status? Why not? Fire rate + ammo efficiency? Can be done! A whole new range of valuable modding options opens up if you decouple damage from the stuff which now automatically provides that, and I really see no reason why this should not be possible.
  2. Hehe, it was very clear in my head, but yeah, apparently failed to communicate properly :-) Anyway, yes, your suggestion definitely will curb the worst excesses. What I was aiming at was going a step further and decoupling DPS increases, especially multipliers from everything else as much as possible. If a mod increases your DPS, it does so by the value it explicitly states. Let us use multishot as an example. It is currently a pure dps multiplier (with added bonus of more chances to proc status). Why allow multishot to be a damage multiplier? Just let the multishot keyword be just that, splitting up your damage into smaller packages with a separate proc chances. Now, if you want a mod which gives multishot to also increase damage, sure, why the hell not, after all they do so now, but do that separately, with the added bonus of it now becoming additive damage instead of multiplicative. The same would go for fire rate and the other 'hidden' multipliers. Eh, nah. It is a stated objective of DE to make the higher MR weapons more powerful than the lower MR ones. Our current system just makes that a pipedream, and whether that is a good design in the first place is also another question. so I am just running with it for now. There are other ways. I don't consider weapon capacity your core dps budget. Eventually you get the mods, max them out and if necessary forma your weapon enough to put them in. Doesn't matter what the weapon is, all your weapon capacity and mods do is making your weapon's base stats scale. Okay, as I said above, that DE actually wants higher MR weapons to be more powerful, with a more linear and flat damage curve we also need to consider that our current game lets us go up against enemies which scale from level 1 to level 10K. That is a wide, wide range to cope with, so some progression in the base stats of our weapons to couple with mods scaling that will be helpful, if not necessary, in bridging that range in a good way.
  3. You misunderstand. You can definitely increase dps with mods, but they have to do so explicitly, not implicitely in order to avoid rof/weapon speed/multishot and the like being straight up multipliers. Because multipliers bad and stuff. I fully expect those mods to have a combination of both (like +X multishot, +X dps). Going that route is certainly a possibility, but I do think we need a wider range in the dps budget than just 5 MR levels as these weapons + mods need to be able to deal with a much greater level range of enemies. A possible way of doing that would be to roll '+ dps' into a new stat, let's call it (melee/ranged) weapon power for now, which gives you more dps based on the player's MR, not the weapon's, giving us a much wider range to play with. However, besides the argument that higher MR weapon's should have a higher dps budget, this does not automatically mean that they would be better for a particular player. We are after all no longer stacking multipliers so the gap between the good and bad will not be the yawning abyss it is nowadays. You may prefer another stance for melee weapons, or dislike a ranged weapon's range/handling/ammo economy or rate of fire, and you will not be so harshly penalized for going off-meta. Eh, well, depends on your definition of challenging, I guess? I'm not talking end-game MMO raid content, but the more basic stuff. Right now, even if DE builds mini-bosses like liches, sisters, demolishers, acolytes or the treasurers who are supposed to have to have to be engaged with they have to resort to immunities, convoluted damage attenuation schemes and/or rocket tag gameplay, let alone actual bosses. And even with all that, they can still be deleted in the blink of an eye, so eh, it's not even working. There isn't much they have introduced in the last couple of patches that didn't basically cancel wide swaths of our arsenal. Besides what I mentioned above, there is also the Vault Necramechs, the Glassmaker, Orphix Venom and I'm probably forgetting plenty. It's also not accidental that the new content is heavily featuring gameplay where we're not in our warframes. That said, not going to lie, I would welcome some content which would be intense solo or even in a squad.
  4. The way the damage system and modding is built in WF really is in need of a serious overhaul. It being in essence exponential means it simply can not handle endless expansion without at some point breaking down, and we have arrived at that point a while ago. It either pushes the final damage to either a meaninglessly high or low number. In addition, where they set certain core stats which enter multiplier madness will either make a weapon broken OP or useless, and that point balances on a razor's edge. To be constructive, let us consider a system going for balance between weapons, while attempting to keep all the stats we have now: - Weapons are built around a DPS budget which grows with a weapons MR budget. Multipliers will no longer be used, everything is additive. DPS will be the base stat we work with. For ranged weapons DPS obviously includes reloading downtime, and also obviously crit damage. When we get to modding and buffs, we aggressively separate anything that increases damage from the rest. Also would do away with the %-based increases from mods and make everything additive. - An average range, fall-off, accuracy, etc is determined when building a weapon. Going below the average obviously gives bonus dps, and the reverse would be true as well. - This means that when building a weapon from the base budget, and also when modding, increasing crit chance, multishot or weapon speed/RoF, would not increase a weapon's DPS. If a mod or buff wishes to increase both RoF and DPS or CC and DPS for example, it would have to do both separately instead of being a straight up automatic multiplier. The exemption would be modding the stats such as accuracy, projectile speed, magazine size, reload, etc. These hidden multipliers can remain, and we want the feel and handling of a weapon to matter. - All damage increases, from buffs, to crits, to mods, really, from anywhere, would just be added together. The hit-location and stealth multipliers I would change into increased crit chance. - The end-result is aimed at a more controlled and linear damage-curve. This of course means enemy scaling can be matched to that, and opens up building encounters that can be challenging again, without turning off status effects/powers/whatever. Also stuff like damage-reflection, dominating enemies and all that become viable again, as well as actual squad-based play with good synergies.
  5. Well, yeah, melee is still king, especially before you get the arcanes and galv mods. But defining the 'best melee' weapons is much harder as they are much closer together. Having a good riven makes a much greater difference for example, and you have to click with a particular stance. Stropha is definitely a stand-out. You also can't go wrong with Nikana Prime, Kronen Prime, Reaper Prime, Gram Prime and polearms like Orthos Prime and Lesion. My current favorite is my Sepfahn with the Blind Justice stance, which I can definitely recommend, but really, I also had fun with machetes, big hammers, etc. It all works. Same with which way you go. Heavy attack, crit, status, hybrid, it's all good.
  6. And yet, for what they're worth, you will find them in at top spots in most up-to-date tier lists. Some might be tier S in one, tier A in another, but I would personally rate only the Tombfinger and Tenet Tetra as pure tier A. But who cares, it's just mostly meaningless labels, the performance gap is minimal, they are all capable of wiping out maps. I guess beyond the Ignis Wraith, Cedo and Acceltra I already mentioned, we could also add Bubonico and Trumna as imho top tier. And add honorable mentions for the likes of solid tier A primaries like Staltha, Kuva Tonkor, Kuva Ogris, Corinth Prime, Fulmin and Phantasma. Any more suggestions?
  7. Eh, personal preferences aside as the question wasn't what we enjoy the most, the weapons in that list certainly work well. Good AOE and the stats to back them up. They can clear maps on any level and in the overwhelming majority of mission types that would be all you need. They are most certainly not out of place in any list with the most powerful general purpose weapons, which is what the OP seemingly asked for. Since this is the type of question that betrays relative unfamiliarity with the game, the only objections I could raise is that the OP might not have the mods/support to elevate some of those entries to full-on OP brokenness in a sustainable way, but eh, plenty of 'em work as advertised on a budget of standard mods and little to no formas until at least SP. Feel free to add what you think are the most powerful weapons!
  8. Eh, you know, there are valid arguments for changing/shortening the crafting timers, also from a business and moneymaking perspective. The game has changed after all, and there are so many more weapons, frames and whatnot. Faster and easier acquisition of those may indeed keep more potential new players on board. You get stuck in that first frame for way too long. The game would be well-served by showcasing what sets it apart, and part of that is the wide variation of frames you can choose from. Besides, it puts more pressure on the need for additional slots, The craft timer can be waited out, but no matter how long it takes, if you have no slot to put it in, it's just going to sit there in the foundry looking shiny, so either way, DE is going to collect.
  9. Some lower MR entries in the primary category would be Cedo, Acceltra and Ignis Wraith (8-8-9) if liches and sisters are beyond you. Those will also not fail you whatever content you do. The list of viable melee weapons is huge. That is more a matter of what stances you have and work for you.
  10. In that clip the Bramma is still way more powerful than those Mk1 weapons, without reducing them to utter irrelevance, which is how it should be. Your mileage obviously varies, but when it comes to ranged weapons feeling the same and just like skins is actually the current state of the game to me. The vast majority of the arsenal is exactly the same: not worth equipping. And for the rest it is just a choice of what I see in my frame's hands and which particle effects accompany clearing the map in the general direction of my mouse pointer. Admittedly there might be some variation in how I click my buttons (keep pressing, alt-fire or simply fire and forget), but that's basically it. Without jumping through a lot of hoops weapons basically have 2 damage codes: 'tickle' or 'splat'. Sure, picking the regular star map and not SP makes a greater portion of my arsenal viable, mainly because the lower spawn rate makes single target weapons less of a failure state, but the main experience of not feeling much of a difference between weapons is still there: everything just goes 'splat'. The handling, quirks and 'feel' of a particular gun just go out of the window when they become point and click. Notable exceptions to me are bows of the non-exploding variety, snipers and throwing weapons, but alas, there is little to no incentive to use them. The main contributors are well-known, the out of the control exponential damage system which has become really bad at finding a sweet spot in regards to damage and tends to push the output to the extremes, coupled with the ease and efficiency of many of our aoe weapons relative to those who lack that capability.
  11. Oh, I agree that it should be reasonable to classify weapons based on their unmodded dps, and I hope one day we can. But in part for the reasons @Aldain mentioned and how those base stats can basically be multiplied beyond anything a sane scaling system could cope with or even predict that day is still a way off. Anyway, that is a separate discussion. On topic: ranged weapons are certainly better.
  12. This is all well and good, but the only conclusion for now is that the MR system ought to reflect the general power of our arsenal, but that it does not. You also touch on something that indeed makes any classification currently pointless, namely that the modding/damage system does things to those base stats. Unspeakable things.
  13. Ok, sure, we could do that. Doesn't address all the high MR weapons that aren't all that good. So much of what makes a weapon 'good' is having access to decent AOE. The current MR system obviously does not (sufficiently) take this into account. Currently looking at the wiki-page with the MR weapon unlocks and, no, that tracks very poorly with the power of those weapons in actual play.
  14. Eh... There are high MR weapons which are crap, but also lower MR weapons which are clearly standouts: Acceltra: MR 8 Cedo: MR 8 Ignis Wraith: MR 9 None of these is worse at clearing maps than say Bubonico (MR 13), Proboscis Cernos (MR 15) or the Bramma, let alone around 50-60% as good. The relationship between MR and a weapon's power is not exactly one-on-one.
  15. The lines between which platform you play on will continue to blur into non-existence. That is an evolution which will not stop. Also, platform does not dictate the quality of the game. There have always been crap, money-grabbing and derivative games. And like cinema, don't expect the AAA releases which (by now) cost hundreds of millions to produce to be where the studios will gamble on being innovative. Those will almost always be about appealing to the mass market with established brands and proven concepts. However, like in cinema, from arthouse and indi movies to the shift from movies to series, there is always plenty of stuff happening. In fact, plenty examples of games which started small and niche turning into industry powerhouses.
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