(PSN)MYKK678

That seems to be an assumption built from nothing. Theres been no mention of damage calculation numbers, at all, when Dante was discussed by any Dev. It wouldn't make sense in the slightest either because then LoS wouldn't solve that issue in the firstplace. It was mentioned on a previous DevShort that if LoS wasn't added then the only other option was to reduce Tragedys Range considering the 30m base Range is one of the largest in the game. The only reason "initial damage" came up is because some random Forum Member wanted to have their cake and eat it too. They want LoS gone but wanted to suggest giving up something else other than Range. Which isn't even a possibility.

Oh thanks for reminding me, one last thing, if you can't even bother to proofread your own replies, it probably shouldn't be surprising for someone to doubt you've read anyone else's properly. Even despite the mounting, overwhelming proof. Anyway, I'll go get back to "failed to argument" and "spouting nosense", it'll probably be far more constructive than trying to decipher whatever your point was supposed to be.

I was patiently waiting for you to take a breath, take 10 measly minutes to actually read the previous posts you so clearly haven't yet, and was still willing to have a conversation about this. That ended when you instead decided to go the "if you're going to call me confused ill just call you confused" route. I don't say this often, considering there isn't usually a need to because most folks on here can remain mature, but that's just pathetic. Thanks for replying though, you've contributed nothing at all but it did at least keep me occupied while cooking dinner. You're done here.

If you weren't confused then I'd love to know why your first reply was talking about detonations and Steel Path when literally nobody had brought up either, at all, in any of the previous posts lol. As I said, I'll be waiting for when you properly catch up and am still willing to have a conversation if you'd like, but realities have to match up here first. Maybe you just don't like it when someone points out when you're confused, but that's something you should have considered before replying to someone with completely wrong information. I can't change your choice for you. To help get you started: Removing Tragedys initial damage is factually pointless, yes people other than you worked out how to nuke multiple rooms with week 1 Dante, the only option to trade for No LoS is to reduce Tragedys Range. The end. Get reading please.

More confusion, cool. I'm just going to wait until you finally actually revisit my previous posts instead of continuing to believe your version of what was said. I don't have the patience to entertain this weird dead end you've driven yourself into. I won't expect it to happen given how you could have done so over the last few hours, but let me know if you do actually properly read the previous posts.

Yeah that confusion is certainly still there. Others: We can just ask them to take away Dantes Tragedys initial hit and that will get us No LoS back Me: It won't no, the initial hit compared to the status multiplier is nothing. You're trying to trade something worthless. The only option, as confirmed by the Devs themselves, is to reduce his Range. You: You're wrong talking about LoS being about Steel Path and detonations. Me: I just...... I wasn't talking about....... What? Also just an FYI, during that first week many of us did indeed have Dante wiping multiple rooms in SP. You could get his Range up to 70m and there is also more confusion there about how Tragedy works. The literal preview video for Tragedy in the menu contradicts your own version of how it works.

You seem very, very confused. Nobody said anything about detonating rooms or LoS being added because of Steel Path. I'm left to assume that you just quickly looked over the post, noticed a few key words, and replied to what you thought was there instead of what's actually there. Just in case you decide to properly read this one, my point is that reducing/removing Tragedys Initial Hit is not enough of a change in order to bring back No LoS, and that the only option is to reduce Dantes Range to get it back, so that he isn't able to detonate multiple rooms in one go. You're literally arguing against someone who brought up your own points before you.

It's weird how it works. Year started out great, Dante looked good, TennoCon to look forward to, new mode variations etc etc. Funny how quick that can all change. At least the Dune MMO is getting great reception so that's something to look forward to.

If you understood then I'm sorry, you're incorrect. The damage wouldn't warrant that much of a change. The only possibility of anyone reasonable coming to that conclusion is if they're only comparing the initial hit to its usefulness in Normal Mode. Theres no second or third options here, just the one. If you think you can come up with a reasonable argument for why a 17k hit against Steel Path enemies is equal to a power passing through all walls, obstacles and height differentials, I'll certainly read it?

I get what you're trying to say, I really do, but what you're trying to say is also an attempt to walk on eggshells around what is clearly a worthless bargain. You give up nothing. The 17k hit I mentioned before in proper (endgame) content is nothing. Does next-to-nothing. I genuinely don't want this to sound rude but I don't want to hear about the initial hits usefulness in "normal content" or any other similar semantics. If anyone here actually wants No LoS back, you have to be reasonable. Saying the initial hit is worthwhile is like complaining about a drop of water on your arm whilst you're already diving into the ocean. If it was gone or bugged tomorrow, do you honestly think anyone other than the folks who track numbers on spreadsheets would notice?

I think you might be confusing what was proposed. Nobody is suggesting that Tragedys Status Multiplier hit be reduced. When we're talking about the initial hit, that's the set amount that Tragedy hits for when used. To give an example, one of my loadouts has Ability Strength of 264%. This means that when Tragedy is triggered, its initial hit is 17,160, and then it multiplies all current Status by 7.92. We're talking about the initial hit of 17,160 here. Removing that is meaningless, which means it's not enough to warrant getting no Line of Sight back. Somebody suggested taking away that initial damage as a trade-off a while back without really thinking it through, despite the Devs making it crystal clear that Range would need to be reduced, and for some weird reason it has spread like wildfire.

I agree except for one thing, removing the initial damage is not a big enough change to warrant a revert of the LoS system. As someone correctly pointed out in another thread before, in Endgame content that initial damage on Tragedy is inconsequential. As such, if its meaningless then that's not truly giving anything worthwhile up in order to get "no LoS" back. Dantes Range on Tragedy would 100% need to be the sacrifice in order to get "no LoS" back. But considering the majority of people on the forums have already stated they'd be happy with that trade-off, it's genuinely baffling why DE wants to quadruple-down on this horrendous new system. Right now Jade is absolutely screwed. Could be an interesting frame but it barely matters anymore. With Dante now setting a new precedent for New Warframe releases that you can't trust what is shown, Jade might very well be the least sold frame when it releases.

Fun Fact: All of the proper complaints about Dante have been laser-focused specific, featuring either extremely detailed descriptions or, better yet, videos of exactly what the complaints are about. Proving without a reasonable doubt that when LoS was added to Tragedy, and keep in mind it was added, that it was not only unnecessary, but was now creating all new problems. All of the backing for Dante and his changes have featured vague, non-specific examples. Theres barely ever even a tileset named unless the person backing the changes is questioned about their results, to which the reply is always "oh yeah I've tried it on tileset X", which is far too easy to type without proof being present. There's a pretty big difference between the two but I'll let whoever reads this challenge themselves to find it. In the meantime Dante will make his way to the bottom of the usage list, with his only accomplishment being that he has set a new precedent for Newly Released Warframes; Don't trust any previews, don't trust the first few weeks of release, never buy a New Warframe even if it looks good as that can be tampered with.

Then you wouldn't fit into that category then, because you have enough sense to know better due to the recent events.

That's.......literally exactly what it means. Triumph cannot exist without 2x Lightverse, Wordwarden cannot exist without 1x Light Verse, Pageflight cannot exist without 1x Light Verse. It's a key component of all 3 as well as having its own function as a power. I feel like something needs to be clarified here. If you're looking to completely change how Dante and his pages work, you've already lost. That's a battle that was already lost before you typed your first word. The mechanic is sound as long as the results match the time and effort put in, which is why everyone wants a revert of the Tragedy LoS changes. But let's be clear, you're not getting the page mechanic removed, because that's not at all Dantes problem. If it's a mechanic you don't like, that's perfectly fine, Dante isn't the warframe for you then. There are plenty other Warframes to choose from.

Ignorance is not going to help you or your point. Your point was supposed to be that Light Verse doesn't do enough to warrant it being a power on its own, immediately the point was invalidated as you were advised on how 3 other powers that the Warframe possesses literally cannot exist without it. There's not really much I can do to help you with the fact that you forgot the power extends beyond itself and is a key element to using some of Dantes strongest powers. Not every Warframe works the same, nor should they, otherwise they'd just be reskins of the same thing.

4 tries and still couldn't spell "Triumph" huh? It's probably best to focus on that before trying to tackle powers. In the meantime, Dantes Light Verse is part of 3 powers, Triumph, Wordwarden & Pageflight. Whether you use all of them or not doesn't change that it has 4 functions, it's own and the 3 variations through Final Verse. Dante certainly has big issues right now. This isn't one of them.

They're not saying it is. They were saying that before the nerf, Dark Verse being limited by line of sight was enough of a limit without having to add it to Tragedy too. But on Topic, yeah Jade is pretty much screwed at this point. The only folks who are going to buy her within the first two weeks of release are those with more money than sense. As long as this nerf remains it has now set a new precedent for new Warframes going forward. That being; You can't trust any previews or even the first few days of a Warframes release.

To be fair, you did decide to add "functioning LOS feels great" to the title of your thread, and within 1 reply you then brought up how it could have bugs. Well....that's not functional. It's not fulfilling it's one function. It either works as intended and as such has left Dante mediocre, or its not working as intended and has bugs, which doesn't leave Dante any better than option one. Within 20 mins of a hotfix going out on the Friday before last, lots of folks reported Dante blocking his own LoS, and no fix for this amongst other issues was present in last week's hotfix. Keep in mind, LoS was added to Dante, this was an addition, so every single time a new fix for LoS gets released, it's not hard to imagine why so many players feel like it's DE doubling/tripling/quadrupling down on a completely unnecessary addition. If they want to improve LoS for older frames that use it I'm fine with that, but LoS is essentially being forced onto Dante so he can be used as a Test for this new LoS system. Whether someone built him or paid for him, the fact remains that Live Server isn't a Test Server, and shouldn't be used as such. Neither should Dante be used as a Guinea pig for a system he never needed in the first place. So all in all, I respectfully disagree, both with LoS actually being Functional, and with how he feels. I jumped on today and tried every single map with different height dimensions I could think of and didn't come anywhere close to what you're reporting. My Settings shouldn't even be in this conversation. Not one of them should affect how well any frame handles compared to other players, Settings should be a preference/comfort option and that's all.

I'm afraid brushing it off as a "bug" isn't going to work here. I'm not saying there aren't bugs ofc, there's many, including Dante himself blocking his own Line of Sight which I cannot imagine was factored into your assessment of him. But whether we're talking about something being a bug or it being Line of Sight working as intended, they both lead to the same result; a mediocre Warframe. I'd suggest expanding your tests past the new tilesets and trying it on older ones, like Grineer/Corpus ships or Defence Missions with different height levels. The results you're claiming to have seen could only be achieved in wide open areas like the Albrecht Labs, whereas I'm interested in Dante being useful everywhere.

You forgot to mention that the devs are going to continue to look into him and feedback on him over the next week or so. You have to mention that or else you won't get paid. Did they accidentally send you an early draft of what to say? Improving something "bad" doesn't automatically make it "good". It often just increases it to mediocre instead. Dantes worst foes aren't grineer or corpus or sentients, they're small tables and pillars and corridors. And as long as that continues he'll remain mediocre. Reverting the LoS addition and reducing the Range of Tragedy is the only path to him being good again. (And yes, I've played him since the hotfix before anyone suggests it condescendingly)

To be fair, it's not really a "with or without" kind of situation. The Devshort made it pretty clear that if LoS was removed then Range would have to be looked at. We've already covered why the suggestion of removing the base damage of Tragedy instead is pointless, and even if Power Cost was looked into, it likely wouldn't be enough of a trade-off. Tried the newest Hotfix there last night to try to be as fair as possible. It's definitely an improvement on what we had the last few days, but multiple times enemies beside me within 5-10m weren't getting hit. That's not just counting random enemies either, on a few different maps I made sure that Dark Verse hit them first and Tragedy still somehow missed. They can spend the next few months tinkering until they get this right, or just return it to what was working from day 1 with Ranged adjustments. I know what I'd prefer.

To be honest, I had already considered that the Range might be reduced as much as 15m. But considering max strength on Dante turns 30m into 70-80m, it being brought down to 15m sounds about right in order to get rid of Line of Sight. As I said in a previous post, I don't want another Saryn, wrecking missions for everyone else. Dante should be able to nuke clusters of groups, not entire rooms. As for the whole "bullet jump into the air" thing, although inventive, is a plaster. For a problem that still remains. It means Dante now has one, and only one, option of how to play him. That shouldn't be the goal. Unfortunately the latest hotfix just doubled down on the Line of Sight issue. Though to be fair that was already scheduled in. Hopefully the idea of LoS being replaced with Reduced Range is still on the table, because it seems to be the more popular option.

This pretty much seems to be the majority of people's hopes, that something like this would be implemented. Considering on the Devshort they pretty much confirmed that it either needed to be LoS or reduced Range, reduced Range definitely seems to be the preferred option. Theres no point in having it have a range of 70-80m if a desk in the room is going to stop it from hitting.

You know they can read, right? Not only was this suggestion already covered, but you just explained exactly why that wouldn't be a reasonable trade-off, which means that even if there was a snowballs chance in hell that they didn't know, they do now.