Krion112

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About Krion112

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  1. As exciting as it is to see that weapon balance has become a concern, like at all, these changes will not solve the issue, at least not by themselves. People use the weapons they do because they can kill with incredible convenience and ease of use. No precision weapon like the Buzlok is ever going to have the love of a weapons with convenience, like the Soma or other similar weapons. In fact, I usually see most players favoring either Grineer or Tenno weapons, probably because Grineer and Tenno weapons don't generally have the same nuance and flair required by Corpus and Infested weapons. More mechanics need looking at, not just the statistics of individual weapons. You want something to be relevant, it needs to have a definitive purpose. Right off the bat, I already know that precision weapons need significantly more reward, because right now, killing one guy, even if it's a Bombard, Tech, Bursa, or otherwise, does nothing to prevent or impede the several other Lancers/Crewmen/Moas/Chargers/Runners bearing down on you, which at high levels have incredibly deadly attacks. I understand that swarms are supposed to counter precision, but it's so hard set, and pretty much leaves them behind in every regard, especially considering Warframe's linear elements. I do hope there's more to come, and this isn't just a one-off alteration.
  2. In this case, and in all cases, they do. Certain system designs are exclusive to them, and when you force them together, one inevitably overshadows the other. I'll illustrate this in just a moment. It's literally the core concept of Orthogonal design that its elements don't scale. That's the core reason why these two designs are incompatible; Orthogonal is all behaviors and nuance, whereas linear is all stats and scale. Let me impart to you why you can't make an Orthogonal game progress linearly: take an Assault Rifle and Sniper. The Assault Rifle deals about 8-10 Damage and is designed to counter the Sniper, per the Orthogonal Balance Matrix (ie, the Assault Rifle can put pressure on and is more flexible than the Sniper). The Sniper deals 200 Damage, and is designed to counter the Shotgun (ie, it far out ranges and out damages the Shotgun). Say now we put on a linear progression, and with each level, the stats of a weapon is multiplied upwards. At about rank 10, the Assault Rifle can now deal 40-50 Damage, and the Sniper can deal 1000 Damage. Now the Assault Rifle overshadows both the Sniper and the Shotgun. No matter how high of damage you give the Shotgun or Sniper, they will never scale like the Assault Rifle. And the reason being is they're both single target weapons; no matter how much damage you give them, they will never kill more than one enemy within a short succession. You could put 1 million damage on a Sniper rifle, and a 100 damage Assault Rifle would still be more convenient and more useful because it could more quickly spread that damage across multiple targets in a faster succession. And, to bring the Shotgun into the equation, eventually you'd make it overshadow the Sniper, as doing enough damage will cause it to overcome its normal range issues. Doesn't any of that sound familiar? Because Warframe has those issues already. And then, because the Sniper doesn't have a place, no one uses it, and congratulations, the Orthogonal game design has broken, because if the Sniper doesn't have a place, you're not upholding Orthogonal balance. If at any point you call a piece of equipment mastery fodder, you admit that the Orthogonal side is broken, which proves that the two systems don't mesh together. The linear power scaling effect overshadows the behavioral nuance and role-based nature of the orthogonal design. So no, you can't use them together. And, I'm sorry, but no; everywhere that Warframe tries to utilize both linear and orthogonal design together is flawed. There's not a single example where combined linear and orthogonal design is actually positive for Warframe as a whole. Kind of a low blow; like as though I just like gallivanting through the forums looking to crush peoples' ideas. As my example above illustrates, you can't grow both in options and power. You can only go one or the other, as many of Warframe's flaws already vividly illustrate. It's really not that complicated to understand why.
  3. Unfortunately, they are most certainly incompatible. They overshadow each other. These designs are mutually exclusive, and trying to expand off a conglomerate of them will only continue to breed more and more issues; there is no room for growth here, there is no potential. The game is also already predominantly Orthogonal, the only part that is linear is that enemies have levels and we have mandatory mods. The rest of the game is of Orthogonal balance, warped to help compensate for the linear design, but it ultimately doesn't work. Of course it'd take change to fix, but it would be a better design in the long term to commit to one side or the other. But, I only advocate for Orthogonal because most of Warframe, contrary to what you say, is already Orthogonal. In fact, the theme of Warframe, 'Ninja's play free', and the mantra, 'Play the way you want', are both reflective of Orthogonal designs: Ninjas were most known for being able to use anything as a weapon, suggesting they knew the strengths and weaknesses of every kind of piece of equipment, which is Orthogonal balance. And the mantra suggests that different play-styles should all have some kind of viability in the game, which different play-styles suggests a game of Orthogonal design, as in a Linear game the only play-style is to grow in power for your particular role. To commit to either Linear or Orthogonal will take big changes either way, but the way Warframe is going right now, it's obvious you can't have both. Well, a linear design already goes against and completely disscludes those of us that want our equipment of unique role and purpose to actually be viable throughout the game, instead of depending upon linear upgrades that forego the nuance that makes those pieces of equipment enjoyable in the first place. No, one audience is going to have to inevitably either deal with it or leave, but the alternative to that is we're going to just continue perpetuating all of these issues further. You will never get a satisfying end-game, equipment balance will always be misguided, and the complaints will continue to persevere over the same issues. There's not a middle ground.
  4. From where I stand, my understanding is that the problem here is that the community has no way of establishing what is end-game, because Warframe's 'end-game' does not reflect its game-design. The problem is that Warframe is providing Linear-style difficulty in an Orthogonal game. For comparison, in an Orthogonal game, progression rewards more options, and in a Linear game, progression rewards more power. Examples within or close to Warframe's own genre would be that Payday is an example of a good Orthogonal game, and Borderlands is an example of a good Linear game. In Payday, players don't really obtain linear, power upgrades; everything features a unique role (ie, a non-overlapping purpose). Likewise, the enemies in Payday also don't feature linear progression; when playing on higher difficulties, enemies start getting replaced with more specialized variants, which are not more generically powerful, but are definitely designed so that they are only vulnerable to their direct counters. In Borderlands, players do obtain linear upgrades; you find a gun that does what your gun does, but better, coming down to individual stats like getting slightly more magazine, or slightly more damage, which is distinctly advantaged over weaker weapons of the same exact roles. Likewise, enemies in Borderlands scale linearly; they're given levels that determine their stats, like health and damage. You'll fight enemies that fulfill the same role, but higher level ones will be distinctly more powerful. Warframe tries to do both; we have definitive, mandatory mods required either across all Warframes or all Weapons. Without ample damage modifications, trying to play harder content becomes nearly impossible, yet every weapon is designed in an Orthogonal fashion, as though each one of them is designed to feature a unique purpose. Same for our enemies; their ranks scale their stats in a linear fashion, despite every unit also being designed with Orthogonal balance in mind. Unfortunately, these two systems are fundamentally incompatible, and Warframe's most commonly complained about balance issues reflect this problem perfectly. The concept of 'mastery fodder', complaints about the infinite scaling, popular/unpopular weapons, calls for constant Warframe redesigns, node 'ghost-towns', and more are all symptoms of these two designs being incompatible. As such, the only way to properly design end-game at all is to commit to one side or the other; should Warframe commit to being Orthogonal, or should it commit to being Linear? Does the Tenno get more powerful, or is the Tenno provided more options? Once that's settled, it'd be so much easier to set out what end-game is even supposed to be achieving in the first place. Given most of the elements of the game are balanced around Orthogonal design, my argument would be that the progression should be Orthogonal, as in we gain more options, with our equipment being designed with equal purposefulness, and our enemies getting more specialized in missions of higher difficulty. It would be more about finding the right kind of equipment for the right situation, with some compensation mechanics, such as Sentinels, functioning to help them progress even if they can't or won't specialize.
  5. As cross as I am at present, I'll bite: I was thinking of designing a Corpus throwable arm shield, but the Sentient don't really have any weapons yet, so why not get started? I'm going to pull one from my old Sentient concept thread: Ketu Faction - Sentient Grip Type - Dual Tonfa Weapon (ie, Kronen) Description - Spin attacks release short waves of radiation that inflict the Irradiated status, confusing enemies into attacking each other. A deceptively simple prospect, no doubt fitting of the insidious and manipulative nature of the Sentient. Aesthetically, it'd be interesting if it would also whisper to its wielder, as though its Sentient spark was still alive.
  6. Absolutely they're not; We can argue terminology all day, but we'll not be able to deny the fact that action games are built with taxonomy-like balance systems, in which elements are categorized around multiple functions and not just a single, insignificant stat. That's why saying "Every Warframe that has a 'mobility stat of 0.8 is a heavy Warframe, and every one at 1.0 is a light Warframe' is inaccurate, because that's not at all how game balance works, and it's not accurate to the systems in place. It's taxonomic; There's a distinct classification matrix that determines what should counter and be countered by something else, especially in the case of Orthogonal Designs, which Warframe just so happens to be. Which, if you don't know what that means, an Orthogonal game-design is one in which different elements of a game are given unique, as in non-overlapping, roles, which means you'll never have two elements occupying the precise same role (ie, you won't have two Aggressive Power Offense Warframes, but you can have a Passive Power Offense Warframe and Aggressive Power Offense Warframe). You could argue Warframe has mods to let you curve roles into each other, but two things about that: First, mods don't generally make a weapon better than the weapon specialized at its own rule, and second, when they do, that's where 99% of the Warframe imbalance problems people commonly complain about often lie. 'Confusing and incoherent' to you, I guess. But, because I get it, and it's an abstract concept, there's no way I'm going to be able to explain in a way you're going to understand, especially if you're just going to resist understanding it in the first place with your preconceived player-level understanding of game-design. Nova is a Cooperative Flexible Offense Warframe. The reason for each determining factor: Offense is the role of attacking; it's natural philosophy is to make change. Cooperative is mechanics that don't do much on their own, but are greatly enhanced by or work to greatly enhance other equipment or allies Flexible is the method that is based upon freedom, and is associated with the Pistol weapon; it generally counters Precision Nova is Offense because her abilities encourage direct attacks (ie, her first encourages pushing up on the enemy, and deters them from pushing back, Wormhole can get you close to the enemy easily which is useful in countering Precision (ie, snipers), and the expanding nature of Molecular Prime encourages allies to move with the wave as it travels) Nova is Cooperative because her abilities support allies and the rest of her equipment (Null Star protects her, Wormhole can be used by allies, Molecular Prime does nothing until you kill enemies afflicted with it). Nova is Flexible, because her abilities counter Precision (ie, they all support driving up on the enemy at a controlled rate). All Flexible Offense Warframes are 'Engagers', and by 'Engagers' I mean they benefit the most from applying pressure to the enemy, but are not the driving force; you merely engage at a leisurely distance and keep pushing on when your enemy falls back. You can't use it in a Power Offense manner, is what you're telling me. As I said above, Nova is designed to put pressure on the enemy. Molecular Prime is something you use to break a defensive position, particularly things like ambushes and sniper nests, not chase after someone. Chasing after someone is not purely in the realm of Offense. Let me provide the definition of Precision, because apparently you're not in the know: Precision The Quality, Condition, or Fact of being Exact and Accurate Precision Weapons, therefore, would be any weapon that necessitates accuracy or exactness, ie punishing or not even featuring flexible of aim mechanics like Assault Rifles or SMGs. By game-design definition, a Precise element should usually enact its intended effect upon a specific target. For example, a Sniper Rifle is usually going to deal enough damage to kill something in a single shot. Just because something kills something in a single hit doesn't mean it's a 'Power' weapon, at least not in game-design terms. However, what you talk about actually brings up another thing: the Power / Flexibility / Precision parameters are usually used in degrees. A Rocket Launcher is a Precise Weapon with influence from Power. An Assault Rifle is a Flexible Weapon with influence from Precision. A Flamethrower is a Power Weapon with influence from Flexibility. Warframe's so far don't do this, but Weapons and Enemy Units are all balanced in degrees. As I displayed above, yours is not the definition, and is in fact a fallacy. You can keep calling it 'arbitrary and incoherent', but it's really how the game works so I don't know what to tell you. I've got to be honest here, I have absolutely no idea how you came to this conclusion. What I've laid out as far as my 'Limit Enhanced Mobility' proposal is considered would make more play-styles have more purpose and reward, therefore making them actually viable and see actual use. In fact, from where I'm sitting, you're supporting the continuation of no-cost enhanced mobility, which does overshadow those roles, and makes even fewer of them viable. Despite the fact the Frost was a Power Warframe using Power-oriented weapons fighting a Flexibility Warframe, you're telling me he should be punished for using the weapons designed to counter the opponent he went up against? You're telling me that Power, who is supposed to counter Flexibility, should be punished for using Power against Flexibility? HAH Well... there it is. You have just illustrated the precise reason why that scenario shouldn't happen. As far as I'm concerned, right there, that was me winning the argument, so we have nothing more to discuss. My point thus stands: the no-cost enhanced mobility is outright punishing the roles and play-styles of Weapons and Warframes in ways that are breaking the game balance, therefore it makes sense to impose a limitation. My proposed limitation is a Stamina system that only effects Bullet-Jump, Air Melee, Slide Melee, possibly Sliding, possibly Rolling/Dodging, and that the stamina should be balanced around that prospect that a full stamina bar would enable, on average, Power Warframes to use 1 bullet-jump, Flexible Warframes to use 4-5 Bullet-Jumps in succession, and Precision Warframes to use 3-4 Bullet-Jumps in Succession. Thus, Power Warframes cannot maneuver to Precision Warframes as easily, but can still use them to engage other opponents, that Flexibility Warframes can maneuver up to and around Precision Warframes, but not have enough to escape from a committed engagement against a Power Warframe, and Precision Warframes could use their bullet-jumps for slight mobility, but would mostly keep them ready to disengage from Power Warframes, however they would not be enough to escape from Flexibility Warframes. Once in place, weapon balance can have stats fixed to accommodate, and then further fine-tuning could be provided as new data would be gathered.
  7. Your pretentious and hostile attitude has probably broken several of the forum codes of conduct, especially considering how much you attack me and not my argument. Therefore, your post is ignored; I will not read your vitriolic text. They're not arbitrary, but if I explained right up to every single detail, then you would complain that I didn't make my post concise, so you'd complain either way. I mean, I could link to the charts I've written out that shows the position in balance all of the Warframes hold, and why they are in the positions they are, but you'd probably try to write me off as being incorrect because I didn't adhere to your logic. An 'Engager' is a flexible Offense position, In the case of Nova, she's cooperative flexible Offense, because all of her abilities exist to support the rest of her equipment or allies. Yes her abilities work in close quarters, but only in the same way that an SMG or an Assault Rifle also works in close quarters. Also, in what way is her 4th Defensive, when it spreads out from the point of cast, allowing you to 'ride the wave' in a sense as it primes more enemies for destruction. It encourages you to play on the Offense. No you can't; what's a Marksman Weapon, like the Latron, Buzlok, and Grinlok, categorized as? Because, by my understanding, it'd be a precision weapon, but to you, you'd say it's a medium weapon. However, Witchydragon was proposing that my Precision was equal to Light, so we've already come to a misunderstanding, hence why Light / Medium / Heavy does not make as much sense as Precision / Flexibility / Power. I could only see it making sense to someone who doesn't understand game balance. Sword alone is an aggressive Power play-style; of course it's going to work, because the no-cost flexibility of movement allows it to work outside of its balance parameters, which is a problem. No surprise here. You've seen players utilizing Rhino outside of his balance parameters, is all I get out of the second point. No, I've not seen Frosts able to hold their own in a Snow Globe, but I'm assuming you don't mean that in a particular way, however the issue with Frost is he only wins for being engaged, and if a player stays committed to their engagement; if a player high tails it away mid fight, ordinarily you can't chase after them. Most of the examples you could give me of 'play-styles' are mostly people using equipment incorrectly because the broken balance rewards them improperly. Nope, you already lost; first, you're making a Sword Alone mod a mandatory one, which is a facet of imbalance in an Orthogonal game (which Warframe is, for the most part), second, you assume the corner leads into an open space to still use projectiles, when ordinarily it's not, and then you fail to realize that around most corners is already a health orb; by the Time you even catch up, he's already healed, and already gone. You're just trying to write off my scenario as being fabricated, but don't want to face the reality that it truly happens. In fact, your arguments for the issue only further illustrate why this is a problem. And if you're such a perfect aim with projectile weapons, I demand you show me proof that you can 100% land every shot from a Dera on a high-skilled player who is dodging around you at insane velocities. Every shot, not just part of the magazine. Your logic breaks; a Flexible Warframe uses a Precision Weapon, can kill the Power Warframe with a Power Weapon in one or two shots. Obviously in this scenario the Flexible Warfame needs less time to kill, and less self risk, than the Power one. Incorrect, again. Most 'close quarters' abilities require time to cast, so while you're attempting to cast, he slips by. If you happen to have your ability active before he gets into the chokepoint, then he can see you casting it and retreats out unscathed. If he knows you're waiting, he'll go a different direction, or even kill you before you finish casting or mid cast. Therefore, the chokepoint is still not a chokepoint. Sporadic movement does not mean you can't aim and can't shoot, I see players doing it all the time. There's not a skill divide in Chess or Physical Sports. There's a skill curve, but not a divide. No its not. Some things are calculated in integers, some things are calculated in decimals. Really, I've only seen 'integer-esque' difference in player skill in Warframe, I've never seen a player who was in between high-skill and mid-skill, and I've never seen a player who was in between mid-skill and low-skill. Admittedly, that might just be due to the low population of Conclave or the particular people I've managed to encounter.
  8. Well, I don't use Light/Medium/Heavy because it's not as accurate of terminology. To be fair, though, not one word singularly expresses these things. For understanding of my terminology: Precision Warframes are Harassers (Ash), Ambushers (Wukong), Marksmen (Mesa), Subverters (no example), and Interlopers (Limbo). Flexible Warframes are Engagers (Nova), Responders (no example), Observers (Banshee), Nullifiers (Loki), and Redeemers (no example) Power Warframes are Steamrollers (Atlas), Stalwarts (Vauban), Synergizers (Trinity), Distractions (Rhino), and Unyielders (no example) Special cases are: Excalibur, Volt, Mag, Nyx, and Equinox, who are all mostly Flexible, but do have facets of Precision and Power for their respected roles. If it will help you understand my points, I'll use the terminology of Light / Medium / Heavy, respectively associated as Precision / Flexibility / Power, but if you look at my examples, you could probably see why I would question labeling Ash or Wukong as 'Light' Warframes, or Loki as 'Medium'. Also, when you start bringing weapons into this, I don't think you'd call a Sniper or Rocket Launcher a 'Light Weapon'. Give a player the variability to do anything, and they'll only do what's most effective. And given the way Conclave plays, there are only a handful of viable strategies, most of which have nothing to do with the equipment employed by either the wielder or their opponent, but more related to the individual skill of the player, and not their skill in utilizing particular equipment. And yes, that's a bad thing. Thus, no, the current design does not allow players to utilize any play-style they want. Most roles are actually hurt by the freedom of enhanced mobility. That is about how small I wanted the limit to be, with some variability between individual sub-roles. Mirage is a 'Heavy' Warframe, but I'd expect based upon her powers and role that she would probably have maneuverability than the average Heavy Warframe. However, 10 jumps is not how many I'd give to 'Light' Warframes. I Would have 'Mediums' at 5 and 'Lights' at 3, on average. Inherently, focusing on seeing how an enemy uses something is a facet of knowing what the enemy is using, so the point you make is contradictory to your own argument. This is, after all, the intended idea; players would be seeing how to counter equipment utilized correctly by a skilled player, and how to exploit the equipment incorrectly utilized by an unskilled player. It's a more controlled system than the nebulous one that exists now. This would actually do the opposite of what you say; it will make the roles more apparent and more defined. It's only one gripe, not the main one. The core issue is freedom of enhanced mobility disrupting game-balance, which breaks the PvE side just as much as the PvP side. The fact 'Medium' Warframes can disengage too easily is just one illustration of the issue. How does a Frost with Dera - Detron - Orthos catch an Excalibur at low health, going around a corner, while his Dera is reloading? Answer: He can't, not unless there's lag or any other extenuating circumstances. The Dera's reloading, he's still switching to the Detron, even if he has a fast weapon switch speed, Detron projectiles won't travel fast enough to catch the Excalibur and would be unlikely to hit anyway due to low accuracy, and you can't lead because he's going around a corner. If the Frost has Energy, none of his abilities will catch that Excalibur either. And for this particular situation, the Dera couldn't have killed him, because it's absolutely impossible for a human player to ever make the perfect calculations to properly lead such a target, especially considering even if you did he could change directions before your projectile hit him, or most of the time the projectiles would have to go through a wall to even strike at the right time. As well, the Excalibur only reached and rounded the corner because he could keep leaping around the Frost player, and then abruptly leave when his health was low. And, inherently, And if you blame the equipment the Frost is using, then you've already lost this argument because we've already established that every play-style (adhering to game balance) must be viable. Your 3 reasons do not cover even half of the potential situations. There are more variables. Warframe's high mobility is a farce; it's too free for its own good. So, outright, I'd say the no-cost high-mobility system is the core of the problem. If it was limited, running away would not be an issue, as I've outlined prior. I don't have issues with 'Light' Warframes running away; it's apart of their design to avoid or disengage. My issue is 'Medium' Warframes running away from 'Heavy' warframes, when they're the ones who initiated the attack, and persisted until it was no longer viable for them so they retreated. Actually, that's precisely what it'd do. Defining play-style as being the combination of a Warframe's role and equipped weapons' roles, and enforcing the strengths and weaknesses of those mechanics will bring about true balance. Mobility is core to the issue; leaving it alone is only the refusal to face the heart of the problem. The only reason it goes ignored is because of the Warframe doesn't want to accept or just outright don't realize that the freedom of mobility is the core of the balance issues. Let me outline why your solutions don't work: I already don't see many player utilizing abilities that take time to cast, so I already expect making them longer won't fix them. Most people only use the powers that enable them to keep on the move, because if they stop, they would be made easier to eliminate. Energy regeneration exists in Conclave to get players to use their abilities at a reasonable rate; if it was purely pickup based (which it was, for a time, if I recall right) you'd almost never see Powers getting used, because you'd either end up providing too-little energy or too much. And trying to find the middle ground would only illuminate that some Warframes don't need as much Energy as others to perform their abilities effectively, so trying to give them all the same pickup amount and rate is another imbalance all of its own. Shields not regenerating on their own defeats the purposes of shields. Kind of a generic reasoning. If I can see anything occurring, it'd be that 'Heavy' Warframes and Weapons would be a massive disadvantage, as their close range nature would be rendered even more nonviable. As well, the game would be even more reliant on the freedom of mobility, which is a flawed system Your objective isn't to kill the guy; if you're playing Annihilation, Team or not, if you have the most Oro, you don't need to engage, so you'd be obligated only to dodge past him, possibly get around him and kill him in a more open area. If you're playing Cephalon Capture, and you have the Cephalon, you're also not going to engage, you're just going to slip past him. It's not a cost if you're still making gains and they're not. As such, chokepoints and other 'tactical opportunities' offered by terrain types are made irrelevant. It's been my observation that even really good players have difficulty aiming at sporadically moving players in open spaces, especially with projectiles weapons, like bows. Also, a massive skill divide is a sign of imbalance. A sign of balance would be a skill curve, but as far as I've seen, Conclave has only 3 determinable skill levels, being something like non-skilled players, slight-skilled players, and high-skilled players, with no in between.
  9. Then I suppose I mean unnecessarily inconvenient, compared to the game balance. It will be an inconvenience, but only in the same sense as not allowing someone to enable 'god mode' in a game is an inconvenience. Games necessitate restriction by design, as they are interactive mediums which offer satisfaction through the use of limitations and rules to cultivate the desired experience. I don't get your point here. Of course there's not just one determining factor of player engagement practice, but the present execution of Enhanced Mobility does not adhere to game-balance and does not support all play-styles made available by the game. A player doesn't have to worry about engaging a particular target on the basis of what that target is using because if you expend your resources (ie, ammo, health, shields, energy), you can just retreat without consequence, especially in the case of Flexible and Precise Warframes. Escaping mid-combat makes sense to Precise Warframes, who should never commit themselves to the attack anyway, but it doesn't make sense for Flexible Warframes, who should be punished for committing to engagements against Power Warframes. It also doesn't make sense for a Power Warframe to successfully maneuver its way to fight a Precise Warframe. Yes, you end up with exceptions, the result of skill, nuance, and preparation, but it should definitely be an indication that the skillful player had to work harder to achieve a victory against the odds. Right now, it feels cheap that a Flexible Warframe can just leisurely run away when they no longer feel like the fight is in their favor. A Precise Warframe can get away with that, but if they're trying to straight up engage anyways, they're already at risk of dying faster, and limited maneuverability would ensure that would stay balanced as well, because then they can't maneuver, but it'd be in their best interest to keep their stamina charged to make escapes. As such, I'm inclined to believe limiting mobility via a Stamina Capacity for each Warframe would enforce engagements to be a more calculated effort, based upon what the present player is equipped with versus their enemy. Stamina's pace of regeneration would be slow enough that a Flexible Warframe cannot escape from a committed fight against a Power Warframe, but fast enough that they can maneuver successfully to a Precise Warframe. I'm not good with numerics I haven't tested, but that's probably not a very fast rate, considering the distance a bullet-jump can take a player. As such, assuming my system was in place, they'd be more useful than they sound. And, although you're right in that certain terrain types encourage particular movement management, they don't enforce it. You can bullet-jump maneuver through a crowded corridor and not expect to die to a guy with a shotgun in it, as you just move so sporadically his full blast won't strike you. Likewise, you can put significant open space between you and the opponent, and still not be able to hit them with a sniper just due to freedom of maneuvering. As such, those terrain types don't truly reward their intended functions either.
  10. Limiting Bullet-Jump is what I've been advocating for, so I can at least agree Bullet-Jump needs a limit. My thought was that Stamina should return, but only affect certain maneuvers (off the top of my head, Bullet-Jumping, Rolling, Charge Melee, Spin Melee, and Air Melee). Then, each Warframe would have a Stamina capacity balanced around how many times they should be able to Bullet-Jump, because different Warframes, based upon their core strengths, would necessitate different stats. Most Power Warframes could only bullet-jump once or twice before depleting their stamina, most Flexibility Warframes could bullet-jump three or four times, and Precision Warframes would be able to bullet-jump two or three times. Stamina would regenerate slow enough to make bullet-jumping a calculated measure, but fast enough so as to not be an inconvenience. It should be designed so that Power Warframes can engage, but would have too much difficulty in trying to disengage, that Flexibility Warframes can maneuver up to snipers and long range combatants, but not be enough to disengage from power weapons or Warframes, and that Precision Warframes could use it to quickly escape, but not at a pace that can completely outmaneuver flexibility Warframes. Power and Flexibility Warframes would feature the same distance traveled by a single bullet-jump that they do now, but Precision Warframes would have a slightly longer bullet-jump. DE could then implement some kind of stamina regenerating devices around the maps, which puts the developers in control of where maneuvering can be taken advantage of. Likely a Stamina Orb spawner, a tower that chains a beam to all Warframes in range to recharge their stamina faster, and/or pads and conduits placed on walls and inclines that quickly boost stamina when touch, but have a short cooldown. I'd also suggest the PvE reflect this, by also putting this limitation in place, making enhanced mobility more of a maneuverability thing, and not a reliable momentum gain.
  11. If Carrier still had Vacuum, it would inevitably be considered trash-tier?
  12. Problem is, Frost is not a Passive Power Defense Warframe; Vauban is. Frost is a Cooperative Flexibility Defense Warframe; his powers work in conjunction with other abilities and attacks, but have little effect on their own, but they are still defense oriented, in the sense that Frost deters enemies from engaging, what with that he can slow them down or even force them to engage on the wrong terms. In fact, I'd argue the better strategy is letting the enemy into the globe and then detonating it to knock them down to make them an easier target for defense weapons like the Supra, Glaxion, Tetra, and Dera. I've never seen anyone get away with holing up in the globe and acting statically, and if I did, as Frost's weakness is close combat; as you say, if someone get's in the bubble, and you try and stay inside, you're usually easily killed. But my argument is not about whether a player can still get kills or succeed with using a particular strategy; those things can still be carried out with enough skill and flare regardless of the state of balance. It has no bearing on if the system is balanced or not. It's not supposed to be a dog-fighting game, because if it was intended to be, it would still be imbalanced. This also doesn't mean that this game you're mentioning is balanced either, it may have given into novelty over proper design as well. But I'm not one to judge without the proper information; I'll look into this game. However, like the Dark Souls argument, taking mechanics from one game does not mean they'll be balanced in another. Warframe allows for all roles and methods to be played, the imbalance that exists is that some roles and methods can be used to overshadow others, in particular Flexibility mechanics. That's why there's an imbalance; in a game designed around the idea of playing the way you want (within the realm of game balance), you can't truly play a full Power or full Precision build and expect to do well, even against things you're supposed to be the hard counter for. And when I say that, I mean in both Warframe's PvP and PvE. They're more tied at the hip than you'd think. Most action games have always adhere to the same balance matrix; what parts of it they use and what systems they design based off of it are all that has differed. Based upon the design parameters, it becomes easy to predict what mechanics can be made in a game. For example, Command and Conquer games, which are Real-Time Strategy games, use the exact same parameters of balance as Quake 2, a first person shooter. Of course, some indie developers and modders break that code, and sometimes develop really unique things, but they're almost always fundamentally flawed when they fail to understand such systems. And whenever a developer expands on that matrix in a way that does not consider it in the proper ways, the system develops glaring issues. And the issues in Warframe are pretty obvious, but I almost want to assume that DE is deliberately building a poor design because players have yet to appreciate their attempts at good design before (ie, when Coptering was taken away and branded as a bug, despite the fact that Coptering, like free and reliable Bullet-Jumping, breaks the game's balance). I'm talking about the now; I know there was a point where players were utilizing the Simulor and Penta in unintended ways, hence the nerfs they received. But since that time, I have yet to see one person use it at all, and even if I encounter someone using it, I guarantee you they'll be using it incorrectly, and be punished appropriately for it. And I wasn't talking Prisma Tetra; as far as I'm concerned, all variant weapons are imbalanced just due to being straight up upgrades to their standard forms. In my experience, I'm the only person I know who has used the Tetra in Conclave, and when I used it I did fine, but I definitely had to work harder than any other player to achieve those victories, despite majoritively going up against players utilizing equipment the Tetra was expressly designed to counter. If at any point, a player chases you down with a Penta and Tetra, they've already lost; those weapons are Defensive. At the very least, it all feels the same way as before I left; maybe I never encountered the meta before either. I still see way too many Latron Primes and Daikyus, though. Still doesn't feel very significant of a change, but I'll keep an open mind.
  13. I feel like you're just deliberately missing my points. 1) Bullet jump is not indicative of imbalance; what is its freedom in a system designed where all roles and methods are supposed to be balanced. You can't play a Passive Power Defense role properly in a game that has a focus on Flexibility; this is why the free and reliable enhanced mobility in Warframe is a problem. You are also becoming incessantly frustrating about continuing to suggest I am poorly practiced at Conclave; For the last time, I'm not bad at a Conclave. My skills at the game has no bearing on how well designed the game is, especially in my case because I'm far and away not bad at it. I came back to the game after two months, and was almost always on the winning end of the spectrum, and even when I lost I was fine with it. The imbalance in the system has nothing to do with my performance. Unless you're not referring to me, but given the circumstance, you seem to want to grasp at straws to break my argument. 2) Tenno Weapons can, Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Cephalon weapons can't. And even then, Tenno weapons can only alternate between vertical balance, they can't hop across horizontal balance. And like I just said, Precision does naturally counter Power, and what did I just say about that. Bows are Precision, Shotguns are Power. This, right here, is the problem, why Conclave is imbalanced. The Flexibility mechanic of Bullet-jumping is too powerful because it's unrestrained, and it breaks the balance of weapons and abilities. It means players don't have to commit to the attack or defense. In its place is what people here are calling a 'high skill ceiling', but really it's just the exploitation of an imbalanced system. That doesn't mean skilled players aren't skilled, and Warframe does have a skill ceiling, but what people are calling a high-skill ceiling is just a balance issue that nobody seems to want to admit is an issue. Here, I'll say it because no one else seems to have the guts to: Warframe is too fast for its own good. Enhanced mobility should have been built to be a system of maneuvering, not a system for more velocity. And Warframe is not a dog-fighting game, if it were, it would be even worse in the balance department. 3) I'm educated in designing action games and Warframe is an action game. I don't see why you can't put two and two together. It's not like I'm trying to pit my action game-design up against a puzzle game. 4) And in this response I just told you the fact that certain systems are disrupting the roles so much is why all of Warframe has balance issues. All of Warframe's elements are already based upon specific role slots placed on a balance matrix sheet. Every Warframe, Weapon, Companion, Focus School, Faction, and Enemy Unit is balanced based upon a role; DE doesn't just go "Herp Derp, we need to add new gun/warframe/enemy/whatever", there's actually rules that dictate what can still be added to the game. There are limits and procedures to game-design and the implementation of mechanics. Also, I don't know how fast or slow Warframe is on the Xbox, considering the disparity between using a controller and the keboard-&-mouse, but the Tetra and Penta don't fly on PC. I'm assuming you're talking that people are tracking other players down and 'offensively' using these weapons, but the reality is both the Penta and Tetra are defensive weapons; you let the enemy come to you. This doesn't usually work because players can too easily maneuver out of ambush situations, which occurs because the freedom of movement actually rewards not committing to an attack, which is the whole basis for the strength of the defense role. And my education in game-design is where I'm getting those notions from, and the actual game-design agrees with me. 5) You seem to be against what I'm suggesting, so I don't see why you're worried if people will hate it or not. Since I've come back to Conclave, people are still using the same equipment as when I left, and are still playing the same way. Also, I already said before that I was keeping up to date with the changes to Conclave, even while not playing it. These changes did not shift the 'meta'. (also, the fact we say Warframe has a 'meta' should already be a massive red flag that there's imbalance). As such, I don't see your point. To me, it seems like you're trying to debase my suggestions on the premise that I did not understand what I came back to, despite two facts: One, I was doing quite fine in Conclave, and Two, I already knew what changes were made, and already knew the mode would not play any different, which it didn't. Such an argument could be construed as an attack on my character, which is of course against the code of conduct. As well, while I did play the game fine, basing an argument off of the skill level of a player is completely a farce of an argument anyway. You don't have to be good at a game to understand its game-design.
  14. 1) In the case of team annihilation, I was usually either getting the most oro or getting the most kills. I don't play Cephalon Capture, as it's too imbalanced due to the freedom of enhanced mobility. I'm just saying, I don't have to play a game consistently to keep up my skills; for whatever reason, I can and have ignored games for long periods of time, and come back to them later with equal levels of skill. Sometimes, I even get better without playing. I guarantee, I was doing just fine in Conclave to know I'm not just nitpicking at things that countered me. 2) In game-design, a Power weapon (or, any element at all, really) is a weapon that can deal high quantities of damage or devastating effects over an area of effect at close range. A Precision weapon, which is a weapon that can deal high quantities of damage or cause devastating effects to an individual target at long range. Precision counters Power, because it out-ranges it or can otherwise attack it outside of its perceptions (ie, Tanks usually being unable to target Aircraft in RTS games, Sniper Rifles having far more range and accuracy than Shotguns, etc). And, just as explanation, a Flexibility weapon is any weapon which usually deals damage over time, and is proficient at both long range and close range; it counters Precision weapons because, for example, if you keep shooting at a Precision user, they're going to want to dodge, or in some games getting shot while in scope knocks you out of scope. In the case of Warframe, Bows sit in between Precision and Flexibility, which means they're alright at close-range, but it's a massive self risk to do so. In fact, Bows light-counter Snipers. Of course, if you're skilled enough, you can make a Bow beat a shotgun, but like I said, you put yourself at needless risk for it. 3) That doesn't apply here, though, because I am precisely educated in designing the genre of game that encompasses games like Warframe. Don't know how I'd prove it, as I can't just make a full game right here and now, and I don't have access to Warframe's production to test changes. Although, I have predicted the functions and balance of several new implements to the game since I've become educated in game-design, so I think it's fair to say I'm on the right track. 4) You're running with the standard logical fallacy most players suffer from when talking about game-design. Mechanics are not segregated into different sections; as long as two systems interact, those two systems will have an effect on one another. Movement is not segregated from combat; it plays a heavy part into weapon, and all other element, balance, especially when considering Offense and Defense roles Weapon Favoritism exists for one reason only: Free and Reliable Enhanced Mobility and Mods can cause the weapons of certain roles to overshadow the roles of other weapons that are not as malleable. That overshadowing can also be attributed to that the game-play itself sometimes does not play predictably enough to reward that game-play (ie, I don't ever see people use the Penta to actually set traps, they use it as a flak cannon by firing it near enemy targets and then detonating). The majority of Warframe's balance issues all come from systems surrounding the core game-play, rather than the core game-play itself. Weapons are not under-powered; other weapons can be made to be overpowered. If it was a matter of skill, even skillful players could properly use weapons like the Supra, Tetra, Synapse, and other similarly underused weapons, but they just can't, because of imbalance caused by free and reliable enhanced mobility (ie, immediately dodging out of the way of Supra and Tetra volleys while they're on the defensive, which is supposed to be their element). 5) Whenever I give feedback, it's because I hope DE reads my posts; I don't just argue for the sake of arguing. I make sure that if they follow the string of my posts presenting my arguments, they see the alternative. So, whether or not other people read or argue my posts is not my problem, all that I care is that my point is made for DE to see. I don't know how many of my posts get DE's attention, but I don't post to get feedback from the community, at least not generally.
  15. Wow, okay, this is ridiculous. You've pretty much just made a strawman argument against most of my response. You literally just want to antagonize me. 1) Yeah, because when I'm getting 1st, 2nd, or 3rd place just about every round, I need to warm up. I'm sorry, but your whole basis seems to suggest that I'm saying conclave is imbalanced because I'm bad at it; that's obviously not the case. I was doing just fine in conclave, and had no direct complaints with the players I was playing with or the equipment they were using. My complaint is not against the symptoms, but the actual issues. Also, you're projecting your own mentality upon me; I don't have muscle memory issues like you may. I can stop playing a game for months or years at a time, and come back and play it at just about how well I played it before, if not better. I have a natural talent for just jumping into something and learning it quickly. As such, dropping Warframe for two months was like no time at all for me. 2) They're more closely related than you think. All action genre games, Warframe included, use the same balance matrix; each game just uses it differently. Warframe is the first game I've seen to even attempt at using the entire thing in one game, as usually most games limit it to just bits and pieces (ie, Dark Souls is designed around Flexibility, Offense weapons in Halo are always designed to be Aggressive, Quake and Unreal are designed around the Offense role, etc). This is why Warframe's mantra is "Play the way you want". Even most of Warframe's lore has been written entirely to coincide with its game-design. Even as you talk about the strengths of a shotgun, you pretty much outline the criteria of a power weapon. Ultimately, Warframe does share all of its balance with those games, but it isn't designed around the same criteria as those games. 3) Wow, that's just blatantly incorrect for this situation. I'm educated in action genre game-design, Warframe is an action game, I'm pretty sure I know precisely how it works, with only one exception: I'm not educated in level design, but we're not talking level design issues. What you're saying is that an educated diesel mechanic wouldn't necessarily know how to fix a freight truck, even though that's precisely what his education covers. 4) Right there, I was very obviously, and very clearly referring to Warframe's base game-play. Just because you want to play ignorant does not change the fact of what I was quite obviously referring to. At this point, I can assume you only wanted to call me out on something on this point, but couldn't find anything. To bring the point to Conclave, how roles are overshadowed there is entirely the result of enhanced mobility being completely too free and reliable. It leads to weapon imbalance, as I have already outlined, and weapon favoritism, which is only a problem if subjectively thought to be. Some mods in Conclave may also be imbalanced, but I don't have enough experience in using them to know if they shift the balance too much. 5) I want Warframe, and all of its facets, Conclave included, to be made better. My feedback is not venomous; I'm merely pointing out the flaws, and suggesting solutions, both based upon my education as a game-designer and as an experienced player. Your point here does not apply to me.