Jukantos
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Posts posted by Jukantos
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4 minutes ago, Arblarg said:
I guess it should be obvious how much they're in control, somebody deleted my post and it wasn't me. Thanks for quoting me and keeping it up though.
lol and that despite the fact your post wasn't negative or offensive in any way. What is this, some Steam Greenlight Dev's Forum where stuff goes "missing" without comment? Come on, that shouldn't be necessary. Let us have a constructive discussion about why you should take a few steps back from battering us so hard (looking at whoever is running around with a deleting hammer)
edit: Whelp a moderator made a solid argument while i was writing this, and i agree to return to the topic at hand. I DID however already make a seperate topic about the previous quite harsh cuts to all types of acquisition rates across warframe with the new update, and you're more than welcome to read my detailed opinions on those changes (and discuss them) over here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/669433-lets-talk-about-acquisition-rates/
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9 minutes ago, CoreMatte said:
This is so annoyingly and painfully accurate i want to force choke some grineer >_<
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2 minutes ago, Klydoris said:
Funny.....maybe I need glasses, but according to Steamcharts the player numbers have gone up till the update.....you sure you are talking about Warframe? :P
yeah let's look at those curves if all these nerfs go through into live gameplay. We'll see where those numbers are in 2-3 months. Heck i'd even WANT the game to start failing with all this endless chopping and chopping against player progression, towards market enforcement, just so that MAYBE the impulse reaches DE to stop pulling this crap. And i'm saying that as someone who, this year, FINALLY actually splashed a lot of cash onto the game (110$ for Vauban Prime Accessories and Mag Vault Pack).
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6 minutes ago, pauli133 said:
I'm actually quite excited with what I understand the new system to be - new gear means new relics, and those relics will be usable forever. I'll be able to farm the new stuff potentially years after its relics have been vaulted away out of the drop tables.
But, as expected, there's no shortage of reactionaries declaring the sky is falling.
Think about what you just said. Part 1 you're saying you're excited now that you'll have to face a vastly increased grind with the release of every new prime. Also you're happy that old vaulted primes you have will now never gain significant trading value after their removal, so your collection will never gain significant value even after the duplicates of the items you personally already own are vaulted. Less plat to earn for you from selling to collectors, great indeed. At least you get to grind duplicates a long time after the items YOU ALREADY HAVE are already vaulted. Ha.
Part 2: I think i've explained in quite a lot of details why this is exclusively negative for pretty much every playertype involved, and you're just offering broad generic defending with no basis or arguments that couldn't be dismantled with simply math (see above). What other than fanboyish defending am i ment to call your reply then?
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2 minutes ago, Funcooker said:
Old system: spend 20 minutes in Void survival for a 5% chance at a new prime part
New system: spend 20 minutes in Derelict survival for a 5% chance of getting the new relic which grants a 2% chance at a new prime part
It seems obvious what was coming. I mean, did you really think it would be this easy?
but it IS easier now, spend XX plat on a relic pack, get the new relic right after release (and after buying 20 relic packs) and then "upgrade" your relic to a 10% chance with the great new void traces system. Even you can now get primes a lot faster (if you BUY a lot of relic packs)
The fact that i called this would happen almost a year ago (i told my pals stuff along the lines of "The Star chart rework will be a massive nerf towards player reward acquisition with a nice skin to dress up the turd" tons of times) and it's now becoming a reality in still unfolding continously harsher steps, when i was the one originally being scolded and laughed at by my buddies, is PAINFULL. You know what makes it extra painfull? My buddies left the game because of previous hits against reward acquisitions, not even this one. HOW FAR are you going to go DE? You've succeeded in removing Warframe out of steams Top 10, now are you strifing to remove it out of the top 20? top 100? lose 10% of the playerbase? lose 20%? 50%?
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Just now, Askell91 said:
DE started to choke theyr own playerbase. Good choice. We will see how long will WF last before its gonna need to shut down becouse of lack of players.
The worst part is i don't understand why they would do this. Spectres of the Rail NUKED Warframe out of steams top ten. And making things even worse won't help. Not with the new player joining ratio being so small (because of no big scale advertising and still not well optimized new player experience). This looks SO very much like the average Tencent squeezing / "whale"milking tactic, but that's simply not applicable to warframe. The hardcore fans with big enough wallets were already buying prime access, and making people pissed / quit by multiplying grinding won't help their cash influx whatsoever
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2 minutes ago, ZodiacShinryu said:
Well I didn't see the Prime time but did they show pics or give out exact details of what is in the drop table of these new relics? While maybe not the most ideal (from a veteran point of view), Maybe they will only pack the new relics with the new primes. Not as elegant of a solution but at least you will only get new prime stuff in these new relics. As I always say, all we can do is wait and see.
Yup. All new prime releases will be put into completely new relics. Old releases that are rotated out now only mean their relics no longer drop. They've quite literally adopted the CS:GO crate system (minus the paying for keys part, instead we slam them into fissures)
And with new relics being completely unavailable for pre-farm you now get to spend hours and hours "keyfarming" aka relicfarming when a new release is out, scowering the huge droptable of an excavation mission for that ONE specific relic you need because it's the new one. That is literally the reintroduction of the old RNG table situation, just worse. AND all our collected keys have been nicely bypassed and are forever worthless.
On the positive side of things you can obviously buy relic packs with platinum once a new prime releases and hope you get the new relics out of those #Kappa #FFS /sarcasmOFF
This is yet another HUGE cut into reward acquisition rates, for no reason whatsoever other than to punish anyone trying to play for their rewards as opposed to using the market. NOT good.
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1 minute ago, DrProfSirCarmen said:
I think you completely misunderstood what they meant by your keys will still have value. They meant that they wouldn't get rid of all your original keys completely invalidating all the work you put into them, which is what they've done by converting them to relics.
nope they specifically said they would not uncouple our old key collections from new prime releases, before the relic system was even finally named or released. And look what happened not even a month after the rework.
Plus, if we have to farm for random specific keys out of random droptables every time after a prime releases, then what was the point of releasing the relic system. That exact type of scowering a huge reward table for a very specific item was the REASON keys were removed. Not only that, now hitting that specific thing on the droptable of an excavation, defense, survival, interception or whatever mission only gives you the relic, which only has a percentage chance of giving you the item you want out of it. If the new primes happen to make up a relic all the way to its rare drop, you could be looking at HUNDREDS of hours (or plat) just to get one single new prime piece. It would be two seperate RNG systems multiplied by each other.
I've suspected this exact scenario (Huge acquisition rate cutbacks being skinned up by a shiny new starchart) for over a year and by the looks and changes not only was i right, it's getting more drastical almost by the week now. Is this Tencents doing? What's the next step, Prime Access being released 1, 2, 4 weeks before the matching relics are put into droptables? What possible further cutbacks are even possible beyond this point, once our entire acquired collection is worthless towards obtaining new primes?
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So, Prime Time just announced relics 2.0 for the next prime and "a new way relics will be vaulted".
We will now be "able to" keep our relics and farm the old items attached to them, while new primes are attached to new relics which we unfortunately will not be able to prepare for / farm before those primes are released.
This is quite literally the EXACT thing you promised NOT to do. You said our key collections would be converted, that they would maintain value, and you didn't even wait a single month before going back on that promise by bypassing our entire former key collection when it comes to newly released primes. I predicted this exact scenario, i called this would happen and was scolded as a negative nancy by my friends for it.
We also still haven't seen the "Relics offered by Baro" as of it. Imagine the Nekros Prime BP were to end up as the rare drop from a relic that Baro unfortunately sells at 200 ducats each. Wouldn't that be a fun amount of grinding to do?
You are slowly but surely overstepping the boundaries of acceptable changes in terms of how much you cut into your players progress DE; and this is DIRECTLY going back on your previous promises in an even more significant way than the changes to weekly potato alerts and a lot more painfull to your veteran players too. You can't polish a turd, even if we get slightly more relic farming variation, if every new prime release forces us to spend HOURS in endless mission formats hoping to randomly get the correct relic, you have literally re-introduced the randomness of droptables that you wanted to cut down on with the very introduction of relics, only as an added bonus you now get to bypass everyone's old collection.
You'd better go back on going back on your word here. I realize im in no position to threaten you with anything but me personally quitting but it would be INCREDIBLY disappointing to see you going THAT far just to devalue the work veterans have put into their collections and to make prime access seem better than spending double or even tripple digit amounts of hours after a new prime is released. At that point, the old void would've LITERALLY given players better odds of obtaining what they want.
All in all, all i can say is, don't do this. You're going too far. Your attempts to further chop down player progression are getting completely out of proportion.
Rant OUT.
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Bug: Junctions are inoperable / stuck in an uncompletable state
Details: I have completed the objectives for the junctions, entered the junction, defeated the spectre, activated the cutscene ending of the mission, but despite the "Mission Successfull" screen it didn't actually give me the mastery points or activate the junction on the solar map. Instead i can re-enter the junction as many times as i please, repeatedly kill the Spectre but the button to activate the finishing cutscene no longer becomes available (i just simply can't press X and have to leave the Junction the way i came).
A total of 4 Junctions are now in this frozen state for me and i think i'll refrain from trying to unlock further ones until this is fixed. Not quite sure how i would submit a screenshot for this. It's just the final "press X here" context button not activating and since there's nothing else to do inside a junction... i can't do anything :D
As of Spectres of the Rail Hotfix 10 this issue STILL continues to exist
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Considering HOW important scans are becoming i'd suggest new players to be given a pack of scanners at some point and shown how to use them via the gear menu. It's simply in no tutorial and people keep mentioning their confusion with that particular system.
Maybe just give everyone unlimited codex scans as a starting item that is by default slotted into your gear wheel. Considering there is an infinite Simaris Scan augment, nobody buys Codex Scanners as a credit sink anymore anyway, and with new players now obtaining credits even slower it's all the more reason to give them a little help on that end of things :)
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5 minutes ago, Hikaru-san said:
Watch the yesterday Prime Time...
On it ^^
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I still wish you'd go back to the old system. The idea of skewing the rewards based on some special currency could've been implemented in the old system and to be frank, the old void with its 7 different mission types (Exterminate, Capture, Sabotage, Mobile Defense, Defense, Survival, Interception) felt a lot more varied and encouraging to do than hunting the exact same minigame over and over throughout various tilesets with mission objectives that feel like meaningless dead weight because they're not rewarding in any way and are just in my gameplay to slow down my acquisition rate of prime items.
Dont get me wrong i AM happy you are adjusting these rates because things would've become a bloody grinding nightmare otherwise, but farming prime items is now probably the dullest thing ever, because you literally just search a map for the same 2-minute minigame over and over and over. The void was more fun than this, ironically. So you've pretty much utterly failed to make all the tilesets meaningfull. All i can perceive them as while voidhunting is deadweight put in place to slow me down.
It surely isn't the worst case scenario i imagined from an unlocking/progression/rewards perspective, but from a gameplay perspective this is more linear than anything i came up with in my anxious nightmare fantasies about this update.
I miss just rampaging about the void with my favourite frame and weapons and making some ducats on the side. My favourite gamemode for that was survival because of it's fluid, relatively non-linear combat focused flow. AND it felt rewarding at the same time. Now it can't anymore :(
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8 hours ago, Darkwave1098 said:
What about the Itzal Oxium cost and the halved credit rewards across all nodes? Is that gonna change soon? Because farming credits takes forever now.
As far as i know they weren't halved, it's just that credit boosters are currently completely broken. I get the exact same credits as my friends and i still have a booster ticking from the vauban cape pack. Lost a week of it now and it's not being boosted whatsoever
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Incredibly sad i couldn't go, wrong side of the atlantic. I'll make sure to sign up if you do organize something around Gamescom again, as that's within my reasonable travel reach. Hope you had a great time, hope you get to relax now after all the crunch of launching spectres of the rail. The game definitely needs a lot of work now more than ever but i'd rather have you rested and at your best potential than under stress EVEN THOUGH i don't like the current gamestate all too much XD
Getting Ducats for Baro is gonna be a nightmare, but at least i get to share it with you ;)
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36 minutes ago, PureIcarus said:
People will still buy prime access because they don't feel like farming and crafting, that's the incentive to buy. The incentive to farm is actually playing the game (tho right now its not very fun) and not have to put $140 into the game for a Warframe, 2 Weapons and a few cosmetics.
technically i think the main reason to buy prime access is the platinum. The biggest pack contains what is basically the 200$ platinum pack at a 30% discount, and you get the primes and cosmetics on top of it. It would be comparatively great deal for a free2play game if the 75% tokens weren't a thing xD
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Just now, PureIcarus said:
Paying for items is for convenience... not for superior items. Ill never spend on Prime Access, but ill still farm it up for free.
same here. Still. There has to be an incentive to farm / buy them. If they're straightup weaker than an existing variant, people would buy less prime access packs. That's just how it is.
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1 minute ago, PureIcarus said:
Naw, Sacti Tigris will always be Superior to Tigris prime. Prime doesn't inherently mean it will be better.... certainly much more shiny... but more likely on par with the original.
They're gonna have to make it straightup better than the sancti one if they wanna sell it in a 140$ bundle :P
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i sold the spare sancti tigris i had for 70 plat to a guy less than a week ago. He's probably VERY unhappy right about now xD
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i might have to take back the claims in terms of fusion cores a tiny bit. Uranus's Archwing Interception now has actually become quite the fusion core source after the removal of archwing parts from rotation C. It still seems to drop almost exclusively silver cores though, in packs of 3 or 5.
Still, if you are in need of cores post update, go to Uranus Caelus :)
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Firstly, let me point out that i am aware there is a Megathread for General Feedback, but i wanted to tackle a specific issue that affects multiple aspects of the game, and i wanted to highlight that single aspect and discuss it, which i think warrants its own thread.
Now, just as a quick clarification of what i mean with Acquisition Rates, i'm referring to things players get in return for their playtime, the ratio of rewards per time spent, and how the changes to these ratios in partially massive ways with this update might affect the average player, the average new player, as well as the average veteran.
Exhibit A: Acquisition Rate for Experience / Affinity
So, Draco is gone. We all knew it would happen eventually. There may be alternatives that pop up in the near future, even though they'll probably not be as effective as Draco used to be, and DE will obviously keep monitoring these "Loot Caves" very closely (Shoutout to Viver). The average new player is now going to have to spend a lot more time to level up their gear. Considering they now have a lot of stuff to do in a clearer fashion on the solar map is certainly going to help this issue, but actually getting their best stuff forma'ed is gonna hurt them badly, because they will not receive the base points on their gear after Forma'ing in anywhere near the amount veterans will, considering this system was changed to scale with mastery rank. This might encourage some players to spend money on affinity boosters, it might make a larger number of players simply give up, we will have to wait for those numbers to unfold in DE's statistics. As for Veterans, we're back to searching "the next loot cave".
Exhibit B: Acquisition Rate for Fusion Cores
So, Triton is gone. A bit surprising to me, i certainly did not anticipate it to receive the full Draco Treatment considering it wasn't having nearly as much of an impact on people. Ever since the initial nerfs to T4 Survival, acquiring Fusion cores has become a more and more timeconsuming affair. I am aware Hierachon still exists, but i've personally had terrible luck with that particular mission. On average i get 2 fusion core packs when i do a 60 minute run with 20 finished excavators. One Core per 6 minutes playtime. That's quite hurtfull when you consider Primed Mods consume 528 Gold Cores to max out (if i remember that number correctly, if not please correct me). This leaves me at over 3000 minutes of playtime to max out a primed mod, also known as over 50 hours of pure mission time. Certainly not the Acquisition Rate we used to have in T4 Survival and it seems to STILL only go downhill
As a little salt to rub in the wound we now constantly have alert missions rewarding a single fusion core of hilariously bad quality, because they aren't even "maxed out" fusion cores. An Uncommon 2 core is worth 1/8th of a U5 Core. I even received a Gold 2 core out of a mission that advertised itself as dropping a Gold 5 Core on twitter. That feed hasn't been updated to reflect the fact you now get downgraded fusion cores that are worth a SPLINTER of the upgrade value of actual cores.
I personally have all the "core" mods enemies are now being balanced around maxed out. Vitality, Serration, heck even Primed Pressure Point etc. I have those maxed out because of the gaint reserves of fusion cores i had, and the MILLIONS of credits i was able to burn (yes, 4+ millions) along with ~18000 mod duplicates just to max out Primed Pressure Point. New players will NEVER have that kind of luxury again, as these duplicates were results of the now deleted draco.
And sure, one could now buy the oh so gracefully upgraded Packs of 15 Gold Cores from the Market and hope for the lottery chance of a legendary core to immediatly max their stuff out, but let's be realistic that chance has to be tiny and unless one wishes to spend as much money as some FIFA Youtubers do on their "pack openings" in a much less thrilling way opening RNG Fusion core packs, this is still not a great value proposition. And the fact that Fusion Core Acquisition Rates have once again been hit directly, doesn't make the market pack look like a better deal either, it just makes it look like a shakedown one eventually will have to submit to if they wish to keep up with newly released mods if they're unwilling to spend hundreds of hours on core farming.
Exhibit C: Acquisition Rate for Orokin Ducats
Now to what i think is (in its current state, sotr hotfix 2) the most aggregious hit we have taken in this update.
I remember when Baro was changed to only appear once every two weeks so that people wouldn't have to spend 20+ hours weekly just to farm items for him. I remember afterwards Ducat Values of items getting nerfed across the board which ment one had to spend more time farming. Then his average prices for "new" items jumped to somewhat consistently be near 400 Ducats, forcing me to farm even more.
Now, missions that reward multiple or even just two prime items are gone. If i REALLY put my heart to it and play with a high efficiency squad, i can maybe get 10 prime items per hour. MAYBE that's a HUGE maybe too. Yes, it has become easier to farm specific items if you have the relic to even get them, quite a bit easier if you're willing to grind out the Traces to nudge the odds in your favor. But at the same time, Keyshares now leave you with 1 item instead of 4. The "Spirit of Keysharing" involved the best way to get value out of your key not just for the chance to get what you wanted, but also to get extra stuff along the way to trade in for ducats. That's completely gone now. 4 players burn 4 keys, to obtain 1 item each. Getting Ducats is a nightmare. I'm almost mad at myself for not playing through a BUNCH of my T4 Interception keys this week just to acquire a huge chunk of garbage prime items to trade in. We DESPERATELY need an alternative or upgraded way of obtaining ducats. If i see a Ducat Bundle pop up in the market for platinum i think i'm gonna scream.
I've put up a LOT of effort to ensure i got every. single. item. Baro EVER offered so far. and i think now it might've gotten to the point where even my excessive amount of playtime will no longer suffice. It's currently at a worse ratio than the launch state of Baro, which as you may remember got DOUBLED in terms of occurence intervals just to give people more time to farm (definitely not because you didn't wanna release new items on a weekly basis ;^) )
Exhibit D: Acquisition Rate for Credits, for new players
While it certainly is a nice change of pace to see an "Unboosted Credit Reward" as a way to help new players along, the current broken state of credit boosters (they simply don't work) and the overall reduced amount of reward credits after missions is going to impact new players quite significantly. I'm going to have to offer credit farming taxis to the now highest level dark sector Akkad (aka the "new Sechura") quite frequently so that new players can even acquire the credits they need for their blueprints and foundry needs. The fact that their starting week boosters are broken in particular, but also the average reduction is pretty aggregious to them. As a Veteran, i won't be affected because im sitting on 20 million of the things, but for new players, this is gonna suck. A lot.
This update hit TOO many Acquisition Rates and it hit a lot of them TOO hard.
I expected some of these changes, but not all of them, and not this drastically. Especially not while you pop up the "solutions" to these problems in the store for platinum. The Fusion Cores and Credits ones in particular are going to massively affect new players in ways that probably would've made me leave the game, if i was an undedicated beginner.
Even putting all the gameplay changes people will dislike aside, and just looking at the pure Reward to time spent ratio, this is going to make the game very unsatisfying for progression hunters like myself. Please, show some mercy and reverse a few of these changes. I don't want to have to spend 100+ hours weekly to keep up with Ducats and Cores necessary to keep pace with new releases.
I'd like, if possible, to keep this discussion strictly on the issue of Acquisition Rates and maybe ways to maximize them (aka the hunt for new "Loot Caves"), and not let it slip into the other controversial gameplay changes. Let's keep this one focused on this one issue so maybe we can get a point across. Thanks Tenno :)
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This change just means literally everyone who goes into a mission that has nullifiers needs to bring a synoid simulor because as of now THOSE dont get popped by nullifiers yet. If you just have 4 people spamming simulors on a void fissure, the nullies die as they spawn. /sarcasm What a "fun and challenging" type of gameplay, forcing everyone into a constrained amount of frames and weapons viable against a certain enemy type /sarcasmOff
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So this just happened to me on Earth... i dont think that was supposed to be here :D
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Now if you could please restore functionality to the credit booster i paid a chunk of money for in the prime accessories bundle?
Thanks for your dedication :)
Relics 2.0, DIRECT Wordbreaking by DE
in General
Posted
it started because of the long waiting time after the second dream. BUT the last bit which he highlighted with an arrow, was the immediate community reaction to Spectres of the rail. It's quite a fast and harsh dropoff compared to ANY other update of that scale EVER previously released. And this new grinding nerf which goes beyond anything we ever had to endure with the key system for the shallow benefit of items remaining theoretically indefinitely farmable (which is going to ruin the platinum value of any prime item associated with the relics that old key collections were converted to).
So i expect the curve to become a lot steeper down VERY soon. Maybe with another spike upwards as people explore the War Within Cinematic quest. But after that? there won't be meaningfull stuff to do other than MINDBOGGLINGLY slow RNG grinding of relics, followed by grinding Void Traces, followed by trying to find non-scammy relic shares that immediatly burn your relic.which MIGHT give you the new item you wanted. Overall it's a LOT more work than the old key system with SIGNIFICANTLY less other prime dupliactes (cough ducats cough) dropping on the side while you do it. There's no gratifying reward for sitting in a starchart excavation finding bronze channeling mod or rotation C Serrations as you wait for "that one specific relic" to drop.