[Deimos feels too much like two different planets, should it be treat as such from a gameplay perspective?]

I'm largely apathetic to this. Like I get what you are saying, and don't necessarily disagree either, but also there are likely several out of game reasons to do with convenience and such motivations I am completely cool with. Then lore wise is covered and gameplay wise... Well again, doesn't really bother me. Like I guess it would be nice to have Nightmare missions in the labs, but I am more happy that they are included in Omni Fissures with Zariman, since gameplay wise thats something I care about/desire more, having new locations having Relic Fissures 

You might know this already but Derelicts use to be separate with their own node, but got folded into Deimos around the time of that update (not sure on the exact exact update/time specifically). Thats why that might seem disjointed. I can't remember the exact explanation either.

[Warframe in 2024, is it really worth it?]

Warframe is the kind of game, that knows what it is doing, and does that well, even if what it is trying to do, is a little odd compared to most other games. Which also means, that players that are good at picking up and learning the game and its general systems, if they decide that they like them? You can be pretty efficient, if you don't like its deal, which is going to be common, better to avoid. There can be some friction/conflict that occurs if a player doesn't pick up the broad vibe of the game well, or fast enough, and or they do, and they like it, but their enjoyment/appreciation is sort of split or conditional, and counter weighed by what they find as many negatives/issues with the game they hope re fixed/changed. 

Like Endo, Credits and Platinum are essentially the same thing, they just have some important differences, that influence how different players may interact with them. Their are lots of smaller strategies and approaches that can either diminish or amplify such interactions. As a small example, I personally never had issues with Credits or Endo, because in games I am pretty observant and diligent in my approach. Like when the game is giving you hundreds of Mods, and many have different maximum upgrade levels, and whether they are Bronze, Silver, Gold or higher (like Primed or Sacrificial, Amalgram etc), then you cross reference that with how many weapons are in the game, and how by default they have limited capacity depending on how much you invest on them (Catalyst + Forma)... well probably could be cost effective to only upgrade important mods, but also not necessarily to maximum. Not only that, sometimes could even be more efficient if you have certain mods at different levels, none being at the max (like a rank 4 and a rank 6 Serration), since some weapons capacity difference)... My smaller example is getting a little large, my main point is, this is a way to save a lot of Endo in the early game. Invest large in gear that carries you, and gear you really have fun with and enjoy, and then eventually you will likely end up with a lot of excess. 

So its like many real life scenarios, as far as effective cost management. Likewise, being a FTP is going to very different from someone who has more disposable income and can spend real money on the game, because it can greatly speed up several of the games systems. That being said, that can also be somewhat simulated by being willing to grind and trade for Plat... but depending on the kind of person you are, you might not like having to trade or rely on others that much and or navigating trading practices, websites, dealing with people, having to put time into grinding, especially since by default, people will tend to trade for stuff they don't have or are finding hard to get, which usually also means, you may also face that same issue, (unless for example you have been around in the game so long you have a lot of vaulted items to sell, but thats also a time investment too)... This is also why good framing around the idea of paying to win, can fall apart, because games are so diverse now, and context matters. Like a free to pay game, is different to a full price paid game. PVP is different to PVE. Like there are a lot of other details that become relevant. Like this is also a "grind to win" game, and generally a grindy game. Its one of the core gameplay loops. Not the only one, but attitudes and perceptions matter here too. For example, for some people the fun bit is getting the eventual reward. For some, its the actions in getting the reward, and for some its both. Also, variables exist within those too, like I like Disruption, so getting Dante recently was a breeze. Some people don't like Disruption, and I saw someone annoyed that the Dante farm "takes too long", and "doesn't respect players time", which sure, fair as far as their preference, even if I think objectively Dante's grind is one of the most relatively time efficient. 

I often get recommended quite a few Youtuber games content creators playing Warframe for the first time, and most are usually pretty favourable and impressed by the game being FTP and having pretty good monetisation. Also just impressed, by how much is in the game, for free. Again, though Warframe isn't going to be for everyone. I probably would have bounced off this game really hard if I was a FTP player or younger. Its my chill background game now, that I can spend money on now and then, for cool cosmetics etc (Though originally, it was to just give myself breathing room with slots). 

I also personally think Warframe is at its strongest right now (well based on the criteria I would set for the game). As far as content you can do right now, so many systems, tools, gear, quests, missions, collectibles, so much for one to do. Again though, if you enjoy that, you can eat rich, if you are more particular, more doesn't always mean better. 

[Coming Soon: Devstream #179]

I have a really important question that must be answered! 

1. If Jade from Warframe, fought with Jade from Mortal Kombat, and Jade from Beyond Good And Evil, and Jade from DC comics, and other Jade from DC comics, and Jade from Jackie Chan Adventures, and Jade from the Mortal Kombat comics based on the video game, and Jade from Victorious, and Mara Jade from Star Wars? Who would be the last person standing? As in the one to avoid the Jade Light? 

2. Is the Shadows in Jade Shadows a Sonic reference? H. P. Lovecraft? What We Do in the reference?

3. Does the implication of seeing Protea Prime, in game, suggest that there is a Protea Prime out side the game, and can we purchase them, and do they also come with free energy? 

4. When can we expect Atomicycle Prime? Can Kaithes ride the Atomicycle? Is the Atomicycle secretly an Incarnon weapon? Is the Atomicycle secretly a Kaithe that can transform to blend in with motor vehicles, like some... sort of disguise? 

Thanks and salutations!

[Genderswapped frames in the future yes or no]

If it was easy and convenient, as in resources and time weren't an issue, then maybe. Except to my understanding they aren't, so such products would require effort, time and resources that could likely be put elsewhere, like new designs and ideas. 

Like there are some Warframes that I think would be cool, if we could see alternative designs for, and some I would want, but again... not necessarily at the cost of alternative projects. For example I also want all deluxe skins to get Voidshell technology, but not if it meant that Warframe stopped producing updates for a year. I'd like more Warframe reworks to Frames, but not if it meant no new Warframes or Primes for a year. So on. Could be fun, could be cool? I don't think is likely to happen, realistic or worth holding your breath over. 

Also, to address certain ideas expressed so far, more nuanced takes on gender aren't a modern invention. Like many things, what country, nation, age, culture, and language you look at, whilst more simpler terms for gender are pretty prevalent and common, they aren't the only examples. Many different cultures in times past had more nuanced, or increased complexity (relatively speaking), just other time such ideas often get folded, simplified, complicated so on. Even for English speakers, girl use to be for both boys and girls (modern meaning), like a few hundred years ago, and modern day boys had to be distinguished other ways. Then later pink used to be a colour for boys and that baby blue light colour for girls, until IIRC the 1940's. History wasn't something that started when you were born, not everything you learned as a child at school is necessarily historically accurate or simple, (did you know there are actually more than 5 senses?). Nothing wrong with having a view, just be aware your view may also have been an invention/byproduct of the times you were born in/raised in. 

[What's some of your favourite incarnons and why ? featuring a vid of my top 3 from this week]

35 minutes ago, helioth137 said:

You make me want to play with them :D  I guess it was just frustrating using them with Zephyr and trying to snipe with the slow projectile speed (even with triple buffs from mods, augments, riven and so on). 
CC + Huge dmg travel speed weapon = Grofit :D 

 

That totally makes sense, and I acknowledge that I am probably the odd one here. For example, I already often played with the Daikyu with no fire rate mods, or the like, because I would enjoy the long steady pull back of the bow, lining up the perfect shot on a line of enemies running towards you, then firing the perfect "shot" where your arrow punches through a dozen or so enemies, So the slower fire rate and the slower projectile but infinite body punch through of those weapons reminded me a lot of the Daikyu, just enhanced.

I do have different builds for them though, one for solo play where I can go for super satisfying slow shots, and one for MP, that is faster fire rate and speed and just more kill efficient/DPS/KPM based. 

[Adding more engagement to the core gameplay]

I think these are interesting and fun ideas... but they may work better as unique interactions, for different or specialised tools, like specific weapons or potential Warframes. Like Sirocco has something similar, as does the Nataruk. You can also get a Decree in Duviri that can make finishers affect enemies in proximity. The reason I would limit it though, is not everyone wants to play that way, and that would potentially clash and conflict with many other goals and systems already in the game. So if you make it opt in systems, then people who might enjoy it, can engage with it, and those that don't, can avoid/opt out. 

Having a weapon with that as a gimmick, could be fun, a Warframe with that sort of finisher or interaction with enemies, likewise. All weapons and Warframes though? To put it another way, I like Lavos, but I definitely understand those that do not like infusing elements. Imagine if all Warframes had to mix their abilities? More engaging, but many people would just quit the game. I love the Nataruk, but most days I just like taking weapons that shoot, no active timing mini game present. 

I think you generally want the core gameplay to appeal to the general base, and as inclusive to as many different play styles. Its through choices, that you can get more interesting and niche with such ideas, which is also something they already generally tend to do. Lots of different tools, can shape gameplay (like having some Arcanes and Mods that encourage more finishers, weapons that have timing elements), so more of them could be nice. 

[What's some of your favourite incarnons and why ? featuring a vid of my top 3 from this week]

Dread/Paris Prime: They are functionally pretty similar, I like both, and the Paris Prime a tiny bit more for the ability to actually change its colour channels more. I use to use them both a bit even before they got Incarnons because I just like bows. Well since this is Warframe, specifically traditional like bows. That being said, I like the stats buffs they got, and I also like the Incarnon modes too, and swapping between them when fit. I also love using them both with Mag, Nidus, Khora, and other Warframes with grouping abilities. Especially down long corridors too, the amount of numbers that pop up, plus the sound design of enemies being ripped in two, etc. 

Braton Prime/Phenmor: They are a bit different, but I have a soft spot for both of them for similar reasons. Phenmor was the first Incarnon I used, and it immediately felt fun, and powerful, even for the kind of weapon it was. Revitalised my excitement for new weapon potential, and a reminder that there are ways to incentivise non "AOE" weapons. I always liked the Braton but felt it was a bit too underwhelming, but I kept mine and had a Riven for it to use in SP. Its incarnon was the first out of the second wave of Incarnons, but the new type that revitalised older weapons, and upon using it, it also felt fun and powerful, and made me realise that I would probably want to unlock all the new Incarnons... 

Boar Prime: My fav weapon types are shotguns, and then my third after bows are beam weapons. With Boar I get to have two of those, and the stat buffs were really really nice, especially for the regular form of it incarnon. Probably my most used Incarnon. Only think I think that could make me use it less, is if we get a Tigris incarnon (or some new version of the Exergis, Tenet or Incarnon). 

[Do you believe an infested nemesis/lich would be possible?]

Its basically just a matter of waiting at this point. Like barring Warframe ceasing, DE have already talked about it coming a few times. Sort of in a "yes we will do that, but not yet, wait for the future". They have mentioned it a few times in Dev Streams, a few magazine interviews, but if someone wanted a source to check out personally, their last Reddit AMA, which I believe was last year, 2023, it was also brought up. IIRC to paraphrase the answer they gave "Yes we are doing Infested Lichs, but not this year", and then I think the most recent mention was by Rebecca somewhere (hence probably harder to search for), was to look out for Tennocon. So, we'll probably get more concrete information then. 

Personally, I am excited for it. I think Infested Liches would be fun. Their could be lots of lore explanations/reasons. Gameplay wise? I had a few random creative exercise style ideas. They probably won't do them the way I imagine, but... I thought it would be cool if Infested Lich weapons could borrow from both the established Nemesis/Lich system but also the Incarnon system. Like Corpus Liches came a few years after Kuva Lich, its going to be a few years for Infested Liches too. More systems have been added, and I think the idea of infested being so adaptive and about mutating could be interesting to see reflected in their Nemesis and weaponry as well. Like visually and in a gameplay sense, it could be fun to see. Like level 1 Infested Liches, could be a bit humanoid, but depending on how you initially kill them or level them up, they should start to adapt and mutate around that. Like if you use Heat, they should take on dark burn patches, but then become resistant to heat, and grow larger and get mutated arms and legs, and slowly become more monstrous. Then level 5 Infested Liches will be hulking bizarre mutated freaks, with giant pincer arms, tendrils bursting from chest etc Your weapons could be a bit similar, with evolutions being adaptions and giving the weapons different paths to customise and build around. Maybe they could borrow the Nidus Prime/Nidus aesthetic of visually mutating with stacks, so you could get weapons that start to glow and pulsate more. Could also make that if your Lich gets to level 5, you don't have to unlock the Evolutions, to incentivise people to actually fight the strongest level Liches as well (or ideas like that). 

I also thought it would be cool if their Thralls were mutated pet Juggernauts, they were mind linked to (and yes thus also meaning we might be able to get our own Mutated Juggernauts as pets as well lol). 

[Number 44]

Its Ukax. 

Xaku, spelt upside down. Since what is 44 upside down? hh or also known as... 666 in Orokin! 

There also hasn't been a Warframe starting with U yet... and Xaku is made out of 3 Warframes? 3 is 6, but half! Three 3's also known as 666! 

Coincidence? I think not my friends... keep your eyes on the prize, read the relevant texts and literature and don't believe the hype! 

[Room Nukes vs uh... everything else.]

6 minutes ago, NineChameleon said:

Hah, you writing so much isn't a bad thing! I like how thought out your responses are. 

I am prone to worrying overmuch. (Anxiety sufferer). I suppose I look at the more recent warframes (Recent here meaning the last 3 or 4) So lets say, Dante, Qorvex, Dagath and Kullervo. And I see 4 frames that all have a 4 that is a room clear. 4 frames that all have a status leaning, and 3 of 4 frames that all have overguard or a death gate. 

So 

Dante - Tragedy, Slash and Overguard

Qorvex - Pillar/Crucible Blast, Radiation and Diometric Guard

Dagath - Cavalry/Doom, Viral and Grave Spirit

Kullervo - Collective Curse, Slash and Overguard

Now, again, I'm not saying any of these frames are bad. But when I look at it like this I see a definite similarity. As I said in my original post, there is certainly an upside. More universal viability and therefore more choice. But when everything is so similar the community, at least from w hat i've seen across forums and reddit, tends towards "if it doesn't do it better than what we already have what's the point". Which is why Dagath died off so fast (ha ha) even though she still has a playerbase and why Qorvex started to vanish after Dante came out. 

I'm not saying they dont have playerbases at all. Just that the similarity between frames causes others to become unused and eventually left behind by DE as a result. 

Again as you say, there are Niches. I was avoiding talking about Revenants Tankiness because I know people use him for that reason. I was looking at his more gimmick mechanic compared to a similar frame with a similar gimmick. Even if you want to look at his tankiness, I'm sure we can look at another frame with a similar death gate, aka something like Wukong, that people might put down because Revenant is simply better at it. But to me that's less egregious because tankiness is easily fixed with mods. AoE damage potential... less so.  

To be clear I'm also not saying that a frame having an elemental identity is a bad thing. In fact It's a good way to give them an identity that is unique. But 3 of those frames have elements that are considered good by the meta (slash and viral), and one has an element that at the time of release became very important. (radiation). 

Now of these 4 frames. Kullervo is aquired through Duviri which not everyone enjoys so is not as popular. Qorvex needed standing but was fairly simple to get. Dante had a unique farm spot. Dagath required both a Dojo room AND doing the Abyssal Zone. Which made her harder to get. So of these 4. Qorvex and Dante are the most accessible. Of Qorvex and Dante. Dante is "just better" at everything Qorvex does. So people use Dante. For reasons that have already been mentioned by others and what I was sure was the main reason. Speed, Efficiency more useful. 

Unfortunately I suspect the nuance you are talking about is the exact reason there is no good answer to the problem. You can't change it without disrespecting people's time or taking away people fun. And you can't make harder content that requires less aoe spam and more precision because people wont play it. 

I like what they are doing with "endgame" content at the end of the day. But whenever I'm in a netracell and find myself standing still watching two dante's nuke everything. I do sometimes wonder if its sustainable. Someone has already solo'd Elite Archemedia with Dante. People will solo it with other frames too that's for sure. It just seems like a losing fight. 

 

Thank you, I appreciate that. I also appreciate your effort and willingness to share your ideas at length as well. Don't mind what certain others replies claim, your original post even had a section that was framed for those who wanted a shorter version, but your framed and supported the rest of your thought processes well too regardless. 

To your points, I empathise with that. Its not something I personally have to worry about so much, at least not with Warframe, but its an issue close to my heart generally. Plus you know, the times and world we live in, lots to be anxious and worry about unfortunately. 

Thank you for your example with Warframes. I would generally agree with the point you are making with them. Like, by next years usage stats, Dante will probably have the most usage between them all, and I think say Qorvex might have the lowest, but I think Kullervo might carve out a niche for himself, and even with what I said, I was actually really happy that a Qorvex joined one of my Netracell missions earlier this night. Just as someone who tends to use less popular Warframes myself. Warframes will tend to be a bit tricky overall though when talking about comparisons, just because there are so many, the nature of Primes, cosmetics, Augments, and missions considered relevant and important. Like I personally really like Disruption, which also has a bit of a different meta than say survival, and so the recent Disruption changes are great to me. Some of the best weapons to use to kill the Demo are single target weapons, and some weapons that elsewhere are less popular (like say Quellor or Convectrix. I imagine that when Protea Prime arrives, Lua Apollo will be more populated than ever before. Its also a good place for some unusual Warframe picks as well, like I think Citrine is a pretty good Disruption Warframe. So is Khora, Nova, Mag, etc. Dagath potentially, I haven't used her much for that mode. Kullervo is. 

So its like all these variables add complications with our assessments, even if we can still conclude similar, like more people will still probably do Exterminate and Captures for fast Relics, than say Disruption where you can earn Relics as fast as you crack them, for Axi. 

I think in regards to tankiness and mods, sure, but also often for people convenience is a factor. In Warframe, given the ample tools we have access to, a lot of Warframes can achieve similar with adjustments and even play style... Like I personally like, enjoy and use Nyx more than Revenant. I also don't use her Augment (and I in fact subsumed off her 4, and when I play her in Steel Path, I stay alive, most via Rolling Guard and Chaos and focus firing down Eximus with weapons, but also basic parkour skills and movement, since in my opinion, knowing how to move through the game well is the best and most basic type of surviving the enemies. Especially when you become familiar with enemy AI and patterning. So its a survival tool every Warframe has innate access to, without powers and mods, but that being said... That requires being more alert, paying closer attention, using ideas like line of sight and soft cover and strafing fire and... I also might be hesitant to take Nyx into Deep Archimedea solo, because as good as I think my parkour is, some of the modifiers and challenges... This essentially means, the game does incentivise people to pick Warframes, like Revenant, Citrine, Nezha, Wukong, Dante, Styanax, Rhino, Protea etc and Warframes who are tougher, tankier, and take more to go down. Who also get that through more convenient or simpler ways. Its why I think that Limbo is in a tougher place for example, because Eximus and so many over guarded enemies, plus modifiers work against him. Same with Nyx, and modes having a lot of modifiers that might wreck their energy economy even if you use the augment (I think, like I said, I don't actually use the augment so my knowledge there is less than). 

Like I do find it a bit interesting how often Saryn is mentioned as being one of, if not the strongest "Warframe" but she often never leads the usage charts year to year, because whilst Warframe does put an emphasis on killing large groups of enemies... There is often other stuff going on, where most people usually want other tools. Like there is an ESO meta, but thats a bit general from other places too. Like aside from peoples preferences, in this sense, I feel like a lot of the design choices in modes like Netracells, and Deep Archimedea incentivise diversity. Lavos is a Warframe that scoffs at any energy limitations and debuffs for example (and I personally find them as tanky as Inaros if not more), granted, I don't necessarily think they are super popular, but I see them here and there (well not counting my ow usage). 

Like i get what you are saying about the elements, but like... I feel like that example is in a vacuum. Like there are many meta weapons that have innate elements for example, but the innate element in a vacuum isn't meta, but its not necessarily that important in the larger picture and context. 

Then I do agree that Dante is more meta than Qorvex, but then it sort of goes back to the meta, peoples perceptions, and how we split people into groups, the aspect of overlap, and the people that don't care about the meta. I remember coming across a person who wanted the Zenith to be accessible earlier. That argument aside, its because they claimed they wanted to do Profit Taker, and that Zenith was required for Profit Taker, and so they couldn't do Profit Taker yet... They wanted to, but weapon was locked/inaccessible. Their reasoning was that Zenith was the meta for Profit Taker, I explained to them, Profit Taker was completable without the Zenith, but they.. rejected my claim... and cited some older speed run meta guides. I also explained to them how Kuva Ogris was often used in several of the fasted Profit Taker speed runs, as a similar tool for dealing with Pylons, and IIRC the current fastest times use that weapon, but they also rejected that too... Then I just took them into a profit Taker run with the Arca Plasma and we were done in less than 5 minutes, but yeah... Perceptions versus reality. Again though nuanced, because its not like Zenith isn't consindered a good tool for PT just... 

Also yeah play style preferences and clashes. Like, its kind of a bit easy for me to say that I personally play for fun, because I have everything, and ample amounts of resources. I would maintain I was always that way, even when I started, so i often clash a little bit with people who play the games to try and get rewards faster, see public squads in Eidolons that can get tense and argue. I even myself will get a bit frustrated if people draw aggro away from the red circle in Netracells, and then the mission takes like 30 minutes... So I am not immune to being always chill... (though in that case its less about the rewards and more about pacing and time). 

Dante is still new. I imagine they will be quite popular going ahead, but I think their will be a dip. I suspect when Protea Prime and Jade are out, the chances of seeing two Dante's will be less common. Soloing Archimedea with Dante isn't too grand, its the sort of thing that will be pretty common and regular with people. Per peoples own discretion and willingness. 

Sorry this post was a bit long, am a bit too sleepy to be more concise. Appreciate your response and views all the same. I actually think we are quite similar as far as appreciating and enjoying some of the less popular and meta weapons and Warframes, from the sounds of us, you are just a bit more concerned and worried about how DE is moving a head, and I am less worried all in all. Not that I don't find your concerns valid. Maybe in 2 years time i might feel different, we might have Bramma incarnons and Jade might be twice as powerful as Dante and Saryn combined or something hehe Then I'll have to second guess my stance. I'm generally optimistic right now though. 

[the discution about weather a warframe is good for level cap needs to stop]

I think only people who have reached level cap in real life, should be able to talk about level cap in Warframe. Its common sense really. 

Of course the only way to get to level cap in real life is to subscribe to my Book, "How Sigma's Grind to Level Cap in Real Life by Slightconfuzzled: A True Story about Reaching Level Cap in Your Own Terms, by Creating Your Own Terms, and Not By Following Society's Terms like a Sheep" and the sequel to my Book "How Sigma's Buy Books about How to Grind to Level Cap in Real Life by Slightconfuzzled the Sequel: Part Deus. A Fictional Meta Narrative about Meta Commentary around Sigma Grind Mind Sets and How it Influences Cultural and Societal Norms and how the Sigma Surpasses them, and Gets to Level Cap, by Buying Books Which Tell You What to Do, but Not in a Way thats Ironic, The Lakers Beat the Supersonics!"

Though the latter might be made into a movie, so if books aren't your thing, you might just want to wait for the Netflix version. 

[What is supposed to be the challenge in DA?]

4 hours ago, sinamanthediva said:

Oh how I have missed you Fuzzy, hopefully you don't mind my nickname for you!  Most people don't have attention spans to enjoy your novellas, but they will be richly rewarded if they do! I can understand where the OP is coming from as it's a bit of a lazy way of creating game difficulty by forcing players to use mediocre equipment in a high level mission.  But like some other players have pointed out, just don't use the garbage stuff.  You get less research points but save your sanity and maybe have some fun in the process with no need to be "carried" by other players.  At the point in which a player selects too many modifiers that necessitate the requirement of other players to "carry" you, then a line has been crossed and it's morally wrong to subject other unknowing or unwilling players to such selfish game-play.  Even if the other players are willing to pick up the slack to accommodate such a need,  it's still selfish and kind of icky.  I personally don't have a problem with the RNG aspect of these missions since it does encourage players to get creative and play outside of their comfort zone without the standard board wiping meme builds.  Like I said, no one is forcing anyone to play or choose any of the crap offered, it is still a CHOICE not a requirement to obtain decent rewards.  

Now about the rewards... Wow I just spent like 40 minutes to get an Arcane Exposure!  WTF?  But wait it gets better....  My team mate got an Arcane Duplicate despite the fact I must have picked him of the floor at least 5 times in each of the three missions.  I did NOT know that they pulled this crap again as it was a HUGE deal for me with the Archon Hunt Rewards being individualized, despite it being a TEAM BASED MISSION!  Has DE not learned anything from such a demoralizing type of Reward system that some players on the SAME TEAM will get better rewards?  Can you imagine being forced to "carry" a player for 3 missions and then you get a lessor reward!  That is acceptable but its wrong if DE gives Warframe or weapon choices that a player does not like?  I think people need to re-evaluate their priorities in life if they subscriber to such beliefs.  It's NOT a TEAM if every player is getting random rewards for completing a TEAM BASED MISSION, FULL STOP!  I'm going to say this once, all TEAM based activities that are working towards a common defined goal,  will always be rewarded the same prize at the conclusion of a TEAM based activity.  Example:  Olympic teams all get the same medal if on the same TEAM, even if one member clearly outperformed all others.   TEAMWORK incentivizes working together as a group by making sure everyone is rewarded EQUALLY. I don't want to spin the Reward of Shame Wheel and hope I get a reward equal to my Team Mates who were on the floor every other minute.  It's bad enough I slogged through the mission and only got an Arcane Exposure but it's just dehumanizing to witness my doormat Team Mate and his reward of Arcane Duplicate for doing the SAME MISSION.  Sorry Fuzzy I didn't mean to drag you into my soapbox arena as you were an innocent bystander just trying to maintain some civility and promote good feelings, like you always do!  I appreciate your contributions to the Forums so please continue to be a force of good will and positivity!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

P.S.
Yes it is the same sinamanthediva you know and love!  I ditched my last account out as a form of protest to being harshly demonized and punished for literally saying nothing.  I didn't want to bother fighting for my justice, because at the end of the day, there is no justice here in the Forums.  It's just try and make a valid point until you get erased from existence.  I had to make a new account for cross-save anyway, so I just decided to keep it and start fresh with no blemishes on my record.   Hugs!

 

Hey there stranger! I don't mind, thats a fun nickname. I missed your presence in the forums as well, I hope you have been well sinamanthediva!! 

By chance did you come across a Gruzzling during the Deep Archimedea? I am not one hundred percent certain, but, my current understanding is that rewards are shared, across the group, so you should have gotten Arcane Duplicate as well. Thats been my experience with friends, is that all our drops have been the same. That being said, the Gruzzling if you kill it, they can drop melee Arcanes, or Entrati Lanthorn (or if in Disruption, the Keys for the Conduits), so perhaps that is why/how you got Arcane Exposure? Possibly? I could be wrong, but I think the rewards are supposed to be the same, and universal. Then again this is Warframe so you know. 

Oh and no worries, I sympathise with your situation and that would be frustrating. Thank you for your kind and generous words as always. Have you done both weeks of Deep Archimedea?

Oh and I am sorry to hear about your account issues, but glad to see you around and delivering opinions and views in your endearing and lovely way, as usual. All the best and hope you have a fruitful, Tau, Crescendo and Duplicate Blessed filled week! 

[Room Nukes vs uh... everything else.]

1 hour ago, NineChameleon said:

Just gonna snip the quote because its pretty long. 

By my mistake. I was meaning the more "general" meta. Eidolon meta and Archon meta do absolutely require high single target burst. Which is where sniper rifles and shotguns have that niche. However, what I meant by "diversity death" has kinda been touched on already by a couple of other people. 

We're rapidly approaching a situation in which all AoE weapons are as effective as single target weapons. More in some cases. And in that case, the niche's that some weapons have in their individual meta's are going to be overtaken by the same things that are meta in for example extermination, or survival. Because there's not discernible difference. 

Same with Warframes. You might have a really strong single target debuff, but if its functionally the same as an aoe debuff. The aoe debuff is more likely to be used because its applicable in more places. So frames start to forgo single target debuffs and are just made with aoe ones. 

Nyx vs Revenant comes to mind. Nyx has an incredible mind control ability that can do a lot of damage if you  use it right. But revenant can have 7 thralls at once and they can deal damage in an area if he kills them. So if you want a mind control frame, why play nyx instead of revenant? 

Generalising I know. Since there is more to both frames than mind control. But if a player is looking specifically for those things. They might favour revenant. 

 

All good, and you are good too, I already know you were probably talking about the general meta, I just brought up the other activities to point out and illustrate how nuanced the meta can be, as far as different peoples interpretations, meanings and how and why that is communicated. For example, right now Netracells , Deep Archimedea are pretty popular higher end missions, and you could arguably add Archon Hunts into that. Those are different from Survival. Not necessarily as much as a difference as Eidolons though. So usually people can understand why and how Eidolon meta is different, because its a more obvious difference, but some might not realise how more similar missions can differ as well. 

Then people also need to consider that certain "off meta" tools, can also have meta builds, and that in Warframe, many modes, the difference between "meta" and "off meta" can just mean a few seconds if that of kill difference, and may often touch on something else more subjective, or semi related like convenience or ease of use, or reliability or consistency. 

I still don't know how you might define and classify AOE weapons to agree or disagree with your statement. I have been on the forums for a while, and seen people include or exclude weapons like Cedo, Natauruk, Tenet Arca Plasma, Trumna, Braton Incarnon. It also reminds me a little bit of when AOE were nerfed, and pre Torid getting an Incarnon. The game has a lot of "AOE" weapons, like the Alternox, Afentis that aren't great by themselves, so depending what you mean by AOE, I might disagree with those sort of weapons, compared to others, potentially. Like a lot of people often forget that fire rate and reload and ammo economy is also a variable when comparing weapons. Several weapons can be more effective in situations where you can spray bullets rapidly across a room and wipe enemies fast. Weapons like Phenmor or Burston Prime or Tenora can differ compared to say... normal Burston Prime or Sybaris. Likewise punch through and hitbox projectile size. Nuance exists. 

I don't necessarily disagree with your Revenant and Nyx comparison, generally. There are some instances where Nyx can have more utility, they might be more niche, but like how the mind controlled enemies abilities and teleport can work, in regards to say defence objectives, I can think of situations where Nyx would be a more convenient choice. Also, I find your example kind of interesting given that whilst Revenant can sort of AOE nuke, with some of his abilities synergy, a reason he started to become more popular in recent years is because his tankiness/survival and content that has penalties for dying, as far as worries/concerns over how DE is positioning their game. 

Generalising is totally fine, especially again when trying to cover so much, I understand, but sometimes it misses out on context and there is the matter of framing as well. To my personal perspective, if I had to generalise as well, well... I am someone who generally doesn't use "AOE" (again though potentially depending on how you want to define it), but its not such a worry to me, and on top of that DE's design to me, doesn't seem to fall that way. To myself their push seems for diversity, because overall diversity isn't necessarily the same as meta diversity, and a lot of weapons, game modes, tools, Warframes they have introduced in recent years... Like for example, again, Netracells and Deep Archimedea punish death a bit more severely than other modes and traditional Warframe. Players are incentivised to pick Warframes that can survive, and are a bit more robust. Support as well. Many Incarnon weapons can clear rooms fast, but you need to work a bit more than older traditional AOE weapons. These you need to at least aim to unlock the more powerful modes. A type of engagement they like. Introducing enemies that are adverse to AOE, and other design choices. 

Not that I think many of your points aren't accurate either, because I think many of them are, and yes... even when I generalise, I write a lot lol, but yeah. 

[Viral damage work differently on Beam weapons?]

You may, want to give more build info, screenshots, or video demonstration or just generally more info. Like there is so much that can vary weapon performance and output, and you did give some info, but eh. Like threads like this often pop up, and sometimes a person may be using Critical Delay, and thats okay, but sometimes certain weapons may prefer the fire rate over the extra crit, but then for certain specific reasons. There is also testing the weapons and mods in a relative vacuum (like you attempt to make certain things equal) versus the idea of comparing the builds that take into account strengths. Then yes also factors like slash damage and where/how you are getting that, as well as potentially elemental weighting, and how Ignis already comes with heat, and then what exactly does "superior to everything" necessarily mean. Upfront damage, tick damage? What do the results look like further in Steel Path? Which weapon hits max stacks of Viral first? Against singular enemies or mods? 

I also say may, because personally I don't actually care too much about these specific weapons, beam weapons do have some general differences, but I would just say look at the wikia, I am too lazy to try to write down precisely and accurately, but potentially someone else can look at your info and provide explanations. Like I haven't used Ignis since prior to some of the headshot changes, and I personally always thought Phantasma was generally better for Steel Path, but one obvious ignis Wraith strength is its ability to hit multiple enemies, but IIRC you may want to increase its fire rate, and if comparing to a weapon that has a way to proc slash, be mindful of that with comparisons. Also sometimes, on paper, everything being the same, isn't necessarily... Weapon comparisons can be nuanced, not just weapon to weapon, but build to build. Especially when you consider weapon strengths/weaknesses and how you want to play into that, with say Bane mods and how they affect procs, and mods like hunter munitions, how multishot works, bodyshots versus head, innate weighting... There is a lot of stuff to consider and be aware of. 

Even as someone who enjoys and really gets into numbers and comparisons and stats and all that, even I often just turn my brain off and just go off "feel", because of the amount of work that can be delved into. 

[Room Nukes vs uh... everything else.]

I mean a lot of different topics are being brought up. I'll try and be concise. 

The meta, and people trying to follow the meta aren't the same thing. The meta also isn't some single universal non variable idea, that can be applied to a game like Warframe. For example the Profit Taker speed running meta is different from Survival level cap metas, is different from generally considered meta picks for the broader general game, as in Warframes or weapons that generally are most effective in general, which in context is a bit funny, but this is generally a PVE game, where usually you fight larger groups of enemies, even in modes like say Disruption and Interception. Like meta in PVE and PVP, whether solo, or squad based, will be different. 

What that also means, is that people on Forums and how they understand, talk and communicate the meta will be different... I play with a lot of peopel who attempt to follow the meta on paper... but don't actually have the knowledge or understanding of how/why their tools are considered the meta. Also, no negative judgement from me, I am not knocking such players, often when people are learning, hey need to practice and get experience, and then that often helps them understand the synergies and why such tools are the meta. That being said... there are also those who think they are the king of the game, because they watched a BigDeeWarframe69 video on best Warframes and weapons and copied the builds, and think they are the best. 

Meta can have an objective criteria (but then the emphasis is on actually establishing an objective criteria, and some people can do that better than others), and fun is often largely subjective. 

Also what does one mean by "lately?", AOE has been prevalent in Warframe for a long time, but AOE itself is also a term like meta, where framing and context matters. Onos and Ruvox could even be considered anti-examples, because of how relatively underwhelming they are. 

Mentioning Lavos, Citrine and Sevagoth alongside Caliban and Limbo? Subjective interpretation sure, but is that actually accurate?

Worrying about the death of diversity in the game, can be valid, but it can also essentially be meaningless, unless people can also establish a somewhat objective criteria, thats credible or reaches consensus some way. Especially when we ask questions around "lately". as in the last year? Last 2? 5? Not just that but AOE in itself is such a poorly communicated term in forums. You know the Trumna has AOE? Not the alt fire, the actual primary fire, has a small AOE component. Its obviously not the same kind of AOE as the alt fire or Bramma, but neither is the Tenet Arca Plasma, which also has a different kind of AOE to normal Arca Plasma. Citrine has an AOE ability, but its more of a cone, different to say Xaku, which is different to say Saryn, which is different to say Frost. 

There is deeper nuance here, and if we just generalise it all, well a lot of context and meaning is loss. People have also been worrying about the death of diversity in Warframe since 2013. Then some of them who stopped playing in 2014, might look at Warframe gameplay in 2024 and think "see i was right", but thats where subjectivity and understanding comes into play. 

Personally I regularly play "off meta" because thats more fun to me. Daikyu, Paris (prior to its Incarnon), Tigris, Sybaris, Ivara, apparently Citrine and Lavos... in PUBS, and I usually have stuff to do. Actually often I end up over performing, but naturally it also depends. If i load into a star chart Exterminate and Capture, if there is a someone with an AOE weapon or like a Xaku, do I get to do much? No... but thats more to do with you know, star chart level Capture or Exterminate where people want to rush cracking Relics. 

To be clear, I think its a valid concern to have, but man there are a lot of topics being covered here and not all of them are necessarily grounded enough, and not necessarily the sort that should be taken for granted. 

 

[Inappropriate comment by Warframe Twitch streamer during live twitch]

Hello, and welcome to the Forums.

Nothing wrong with being sensitive, but its not really about that, rather its about being informed and educated. For example are you sure you actually want your 9 year old son watching Warframe content in general? Watching a stream and playing the game itself aren't quite the same, and Age Rating classifications can differ country to country, and certain elements of why Warframe can be rated higher can be toned down (like the gore), but there are still a lot of mature elements within the game, that I wouldn't want a child of mine exposed to, unless I had really had serious conversations with them about them (such as micro transactions), and there are also mature themes in several parts of the game. 

Thats before we even address the nature of streamers who may not even be associated with DE and Warframe, and thats before we even get into the nature of general parenting styles and approaches and ideas different parents take when it comes to protecting their child from outside influences. Parenting can be a tough, selfless, thankless task, I know from personal experience, but thats just par for course. Its been a while since I had to be knowledgable for parenting concerns around children in that age range, and there are a lot of variables involved with such situations, like country, income, schooling situation, family arrangement, and so on, but if your child is going to school, and can access the internet in ways you may not be able to observe or control, even despite your best efforts otherwise, I generally found the open line of communication with the child, worked better. Meaning you have to talk to them, and set boundaries and set up lines of communication, so they value being open and honest with you, even over sensitive or "vulgar" issues. Like unless you live somewhere with little internet access and home school them, chances are they are going to hear much much worse. Mom jokes are like entry level issues. They have also been around for like hundreds of years. When I was at school shock/gore videos were a thing. 

Addressing issues with your son, is going to be better than them being exposed to such things, but feeling like they can't talk to you about them, because they are worried about the percussions/consequences. Also try to remember that technology and society moves constantly. Your children is usually going to be experiencing environments and conditions neither your or your parents experienced, so its not always a good idea to think replicating how they taught you, will work, or that your child will face the exact same issues as you might have. Like social media is a much larger influence now than say 20 years ago. Good luck though all the same. 

[Total kill counter is completely off]

19 minutes ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

You're considering dropping the game because a number entirely irrelevant to any actual gameplay may not be accurate.  Honestly?  I'd say drop the game.  I'm not trying to be rude or mocking, but if your ultimate goal is to make number go up, you should find a game that's more designed for that.  Warframe is a game about blowing away hordes of enemies with absurd powers and weapons.  The total kill count on the stats screen?  I suspect exceedingly few people care even half as much as you do.  The fact that number goes up on the stats screen isn't even secondary, tertiary, or even quaternary to the game.

You're going to stress yourself out over it, and ultimately have a bad time.  I honestly suggest either forgetting that it's there and have fun with shooting the enemies, or find a game that is more geared to making number go up and have fun with that.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. With kindness and empathy, and sincerely, because Warframe has, and is going to have a lot of errors and glitches of this nature, and if its going to affect someone so negatively, its probably better for them to leave the game, sooner. Like there are a lot of things that just get put on the back burner, especially more niche issues that overall less people care about. Thats not to say its not valid for such people to care about it, but if you are a very small minority of people that cares about something so specific to the point its going to have a detrimental affect on your quality of life... 

Its the kind of thing that needs to be managed preemptively.  Like its the sort of thing that might bother some people, but even a lot of them, even if bothered will know how to sort of minimise that negativity, and put in perspective. Not everyone can do that, and thats okay too, but it also means having to try manage such issues. Like if its an issue in a video game around stats which might not be perfect or accurate. 

OP, i don't mean this lightly, but if you can? Try not to worry too much about the numbers/stats being off. I don't know your situation of if what I am suggesting is feasible, if its not, then I am not really sure what else can be done. Its usually not the sort of thing most people or DE prioritises to be fixed. Like the Eidolon stats in profile are weirdly glitched as well (I forget the exact issue), and many of the games other stats have weird issues due to certain interactions, that aren't necessarily inaccurate just... (like how sometimes enemies can classify as crates and so certain Warframe abilities can get a lot of "opened crate" stats, due to such interactions, anyway... 

Do try to enjoy the game, but also do try to look after yourself and how you feel/think, including knowing what to do if a game is making you feel negative. 

All the best, take care everyone. 

[What is your favorite gimmicky Warframe?]

Grendel. See when he was released he was fairly straight forward work horse style worker. Nothing flashy, no gimmicks, he just use to straight up eat people. Devour them, tuck them away in his tummy basket. Literally munch their flesh. Like Saturn devouring his son, but every Grineer, Corpus, Infested etc are his children, in this analogy. 

That was on release though, see a few years down the road, and Yareli is released. With a cutesy vibe and frilly dress and throwing up gang symbols with her hands, and hugging her eldritch abomination ketamine skateboard, Yareli was polarising. Some people liked the anime stylings and mannerisms, and some people were the Clint Eastward looking disgusted GIF. 

Grendel though, he saw an opportunity, he saw Yareli trying to make a splash and trying to muscle her way onto the card, she was pointing at the sign, and in the age of social media, even having a lot of haters can be profitable, so Grendel did the unexpected... He changed and developed a new ability, and this new ability wasn't just strong and one to quickly become one of the top used Helminths... Grendel used this ability with a new voice line, as he uttered... UWU. 

Now Grendel was just as cute, just as kawaii, just as anime, just as girly as Yareli. He had stolen her gimmick, just like he stole her animation stance/idle animations (well stole, but also 50 Plat), and now he was the UWU master. Now he reigns as the UWU master, he can't eat as many as he used to, but he eats up Gimmicks, and now he is undisputed, undoubtedly, without question the Master of the Gimmick the UWU King. ~#OWO#~

[Artificial increase of difficulty in EDA]

I don't have super strong feelings one direction or others, I think people make valid points sincere to their preferences and beliefs around such things.

That being said, there are a few points here and there that interest me. Like the idea or criticism of "artificial difficulty", can be a bit clunky as far as communicating ideas. Not necessarily an inherently right or wrong term to use, it depends on context. Like I personally first remember the term being used as a criticism/complaint towards "bullet sponges" which is another term that I think works better when context is established and acknowledged. Some games in the past, way to give hard modes, was to inflate health pools of some enemies, and sometimes just that, so players needed to expend more ammo/bullets to kill them. Nothing about AI changes, or behaviour. nothing else changed balance wise, just you need more time, to shoot the same enemy more. In some cases the health inflation is so much, some enemies just seemed like bullet sponges. In the worst examples, people could generally agree on, the challenge not feeling as "organic" or "genuine", and more like a cheap way to extend a games life or lock certain rewards behind it and so on, thus making the change, also seem like "artificial difficulty" as we could also describe a few other ways. Like say low effort, or cheap. 

Like imagine if we got Whispers in the Wall, but it was just the Gas City Tile set, but all the buildings were blue. Wait a minute... this is just Blue Jupiter Gas City? Where are our new tile sets, this is just cheap assets reusing. Just using a blue colour scheme is an artificial attempt at seeming different. 

That being said, I personally avoid using certain terms when I can, because I believe some people use such terms without context and nuance, and such terms can get a bit loaded as a result. Like there are cases, where I think that inflating an enemies HP, reusing assets and colour scheme swaps are effective and work, and even good. Still being artificial, but without the negative elements. 

So often there is this disconnect that occurs between making the game difficult and "actually" making the game difficult, because you ask and explore what someone believes "actually" makes the game difficult or challenging in a good, positive and neutral way, and you "actually" discover that there will be people that disagree. Which for some seems obvious, but the conversation can include subjective viewpoints and preferences, but people can also make objective criteria to, for reference. 

Then there is the ability to understand, versus agree and endorse, let alone form preferences around. For example, I personally think that some Warframe players get too wrapped up in the idea that DE is trying to offer "difficulty" in situations, the intent seems more nuanced and multiple. For example... I am generally not the biggest fan of time gating/time gates. I don't have an intense hatred or dislike of them or anything, but to my current understanding, time gating certain systems, is a pretty strong industry prevalent technique for retention. Like i remember a few years back, DE Rebecca explained and talked about how Daily Sorties were one of if not the most popular/populated aspects of Warframe. Which made sense to me, there was plenty of content in public I would end up having to do solo, but 9 times out of 10, if I did a Sortie it would be max squad. I may have a small dislike of time gating stuff, but I still participate in Archon Hunts, and Netracells, and I miss a few here and there, but overall, it probably does motivate me a bit more to log in on certain days, like the day before reset. I do imagine there are downsides, after all I am not against them or critical for no reason, I have reasons, just they are not intensely strong negative reasons, or exclusively negative/critical either. 

So I am a bit critical, and a bit negative, but also a bit positive and I do enjoy them too, and so I also understand why DE implements them, but also... they are a bit more of a challenge overall, but I don't think they exist solely for the challenge. They also create a gameplay loop, as well as the retention aspect. Archons hunts being weekly, you want to get a certain reward. That reward can make the rest of the game "easier" or some other desirable effect. Including the actual activity you just did. Archons were and are pretty polarising though, but so were Sorties to, for some. Just like Raids were, just like Eidolons are... There are a lot of activities in this game, that aren't universally loved. Which to be clear, isn't my way of saying that criticisms shouldn't be welcome or aren't valid, just you know, context. 

Like and this isn't to counter or disagree with OP's points, because load outs are randomised, but also in such a way where you can specialise and adapt your load outs still as well. Like you get three choices and some of those choices have multiple weapons that count, and you can also modify them (meaning using mods you have grinded for, to specialise for a task). Its not completely and totally RNG, its selective RNG, which is meaningfully different, at least to some. So its a kind of limiting factor, so you have to reassess and reevaluate some of your tools and synergy between tools, which for some, is fun, because it requires knowledge and understanding of your tools and synergy to craft a potentially new synergy for a given task. So its testing your knowledge and intimacy of the games mechanics. 

Now, I am not saying that everyone and all will necessarily enjoy that, nor am I saying that I do (I do, to some extent), but I can understand it. 

For example, I think the sub 1 minute Profit Taker runs are crazy awesome, and I can understand the appeal, in speed running, but... not for me. I wouldn't enjoy that. Imagine if DE made a new mission where you had to kill PT in less than a minute to get the new awesome exclusive reward lol. Now I can do Profit Taker pretty fast, and carry, and I can go under 3 minutes, but ehhh. 

Likewise the loot. I get that many will want maximum loot rewards, but once you unlock the Elite version, you can get get most of the rewards that most seem people be interesting in, by giving yourself a freebie spot. Like if I had to nominate one for this week, it would be Styanax probably. I hear some people recommend the Tool modifier so you have access to tools, but week to week, there will likely be some great options/choices. Again though, importantly, doesn't necessarily invalidate or dismiss peoples criticisms, concerns or objections, but... in context... 

Its why many won't push back on such ideas. Unless people and by people I mean a very noticeable majority are so critical of the mode, they do not engage in it, well, but also that works a little in such peoples favours too, in the sense, that you may also only need to be enough of a majority who wants improvements and to be clear and vocal about them, to suggest adjustments and then those will likely eventually come. Since DE usually wants to try and make as many people as happy as they can, and even if people engage in a system, they often usually refine and improve modes over time. See Kuva Lich improvements, Archon Hunt DA changes, Circuit improvements, Eidolon improvements. Just also try to remember to actually try and include specific suggestions. Like maybe specifically asking that we can get two freebies options, or certain specific modifies adjusted or altered etc. 

[What do you consider the best sounding/animated secondary(ies)?]

Oh man, can't believe I forget the Sepulcrum. For the longest time I compared that weapon (unfairly) to the Trumna, but its pretty fun and the sound design is great. 

 

11 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm quite fond of Fraggleguts, and Vermispicegirl.  Actually the one I like the best of all is Gaze, but I can't think of a music joke to make of that one that's not horrendous.

 

How about GazeInLove. As in you know? Crazy In Love by Beyonce? GazE sort of sounds like crazy? Oh no, you are right, its horrendous. 

[What do you consider the best sounding/animated secondary(ies)?]

Interesting question. When it comes to Primaries, I have a pretty solid and long list of my favourite sounding weapons. Secondaries though? Less time and consideration. 

I do quite like the Epitaph. the alt fire sounds like a spectral swhish, like its a creaking splash, and the main fire is like a more built up slicing version. I also like the energy beam sounds of Nukor and Atomos, but Atomos Incarnon even more since you stilll get the beam but also get the Incarnon form version too. 

Quite like the Magnus Prime, Vasto Prime, for more traditional classic gun sound design. I also can't remember the exact sound of it of the top of my head so easily right now, but I think I quite like the sound of the Athodai getting head shots and then getting its buff activated and how it sounds in that mode. I need to revisit that weapon now we have more Secondary Arcanes. Likewise the Knell Prime and its buff (but I think I preferred the sound of the Athodai more, but the buff of the Knell more). 

I think some of the Kitgun Secondaries had fun sound design, I just can't remember them enough anymore. 

 

[Are all new warframes dead on arrival ?]

Hah, don't be silly... 

You forget that Nezha's new augment was also nerfed for being "too good". So its not just new Warframes... 

Spoiler

(This is a joke/light post, obviously there can be more nuance/discussion to be had). 

 

[Is the majority actually fine with the bugfix for Parallax' Orokin Eye?]

I am not sure. I imagine the most honest and concise answer to such a question would be hard to figure out. Forums are a minority of a minority, and Warframes player base is spread out across many forums and social media, and thats just counting those that engage with it in that way, and not just those that are larger. Then you also have many of the players who don't even use or realise the issue, as well as those who might have more nuanced/apathetic takes, 

Personally? Eh, I prefer that they don't use charges. I find it a bit archaic, and for a bit I even thought it was an intended change. I remember building Air Charges in the past, and used a few on occasion, but eh. Then I started to use them more when Zariman launched, and we got Parallax, for Void Plumes. Then I noticed I was just stuck at 46 Air Charges and figured it was an intentional change. Made getting Plumes great in those missions where some people were impatient. Then I used the Kahl beacon a few times, also no charges used, because at that point I just thought it was by design. Then I read somewhere on a Forum that it was a bug because older Air Supports were still using the charges... and I thought that was daff, since the two newest in my opinion were the best, so it definitely sucked if people were using the old ones and additionally expending charges. 

Personally I think they should just cost nothing. Then it again it doesn't actually bother me too much either overall. I already have a lot of Plumes, Voca, all my Kuria, and other such searchables, way too many Ayatan. I did like using the Air Support for randoms and newer players though. Since its cool down based and not everyone knows about them, was nice to come across the secret crates that way too. Now I probably won't spam it as much or randomly. 

At the least I think they should add a 100 x Blueprint. Its also the sort of thing that I can see and understand why they would want to be a resource sink as well. 

[Elite Deep Archimedea Solo with Dante]

Great video and demonstration. 

There is one idea I would like to touch on though. I need to add a little context first though. When it comes to Warframe and Warframes themselves, personally I prioritise fun. Not whatever Warframe I think is most powerful or will make playing easier, or whatever will give me a challenge or equal satisfaction around risks or similar ideas. However since I find about 30 different Warframes fun and use them relatively regularly, I usually end up experiencing all of above anyway as a byproduct. 

When I see people claiming that Dante and Noctua are weak, unplayable, destroyed, not great etc yeah my initial unfiltered reaction is to roll my eyes a little sure, but I also remember that its not great to reduce any and all criticisms and negativity into the most uncharitable versions, nor to conflate all criticisms, negativity, objections and so on into an extreme. For one, thats ironically similar behaviour, you can be guilty of going from extreme to another. If everyone did that we would only end up with two sets of people, whiners, trolls, crybabies on one side, and shills, white knights on the other. Two. People in general aren't always the best or most clear communicators. I think a lot of people talk about Dante changes and its less about being good or fine, and its more often about that don't enjoy him as much. Not as fun. Lastly, its often ineffective. I have seen a lot of people with criticisms, and a video won't change most of their minds. I can even already envision several potential arguments, which then themselves also have counter arguments, and counter arguments... and thats what happens on Forums anyway. To sort of short cut all of that though with an example below. 

Hydroid was recently changed a few months back, I personally could have used old Hydroid to solo Netracells and Deep Archimedea. Its because I am sweaty and try hard and know my Warframe tool synergies well, and i know many others could as well. That being said Hydroid was changed and reworked and I think objectively more powerful overall, and subjectively more fun now. Just because people could have completed such missions pre rework, can't mean they won't like or appreciate the new changes/adjustments. 

Basically, I get the sentiment, and I also personally disagree with the sentiment that Dante and Noctua are weak, but sometimes when you see peoples expressions you disagree with, you can try to nah uh them, and "prove them wrong", but you can also re-contextualise what they are saying, even if you still end up disagreeing, you can understand the nuance and sincerity of their points better. Which also means you can address and potentially counter them better too. 

Regardless of above though video was great. I don't personally like the Afentis enough to use it this way lol, but I have my own synergies and builds I am finding effective enough. 

[Is everyone fine with big overguard numbers?]

I'm not! Yesterday I played with my friend and we were matched with a Dante In Deep Archimedea, and it was yucky and stinky! Like, there was basically no point in us even being there, besides the rewards. The Dante player kept on saying weird things, like "Hey guys", "nice fashion", "how is everyone?", "you guys did great" and "GG", like bruh, you brought a Dante to a PUG, brah. At no point did I think we would fail the mission. I had like 200 Trillion Overguard, which shouldn't be technically possibly, maybe they had a red shard or something, but basically they ruined my experience. 

We also played with a Wukong and Mesa in a Radiation Mobile Defence Sortie. The Wukong was AFK, and the Mesa stood in a radiation cloud and killed us and the defence point, we pretty much failed in the first minute lol. It was great though, it was exciting. Especially since the Mesa was insulting and swearing at us, but they were actually like you know... being real. They respected us, they challenged us, they failed the mission for is, they didn't hold our hands or treat us like babies, who need Overguard. It was enlightening, next level. Meaningful. An actual Warframe experience. Our bond in that failed mission was so deep and special, we are now a polyamorous quintet living on the Moon together. Why the Moon you might ask? Closer to death, actual risks, no pesky Overguard to get in our way from experiencing life and death, with meaning! 

(To be more serious though, I do actually sympathise, just... I have played a lot of "try hard", and supposedly "hardest games to beat", solo player type games, games I often didn't realise had a reputation. A lot of them I never really found hard, because I enjoyed them in such a way, where my mind sort of separates difficulty from observation and learning, and often just being patience, calm, and with semi decent reflexes... Regardless I can look back and know I enjoyed many of them, because they were challenging and had risks involved. Warframe though? There are many many ways, you can interact and influence someone else's games. Being critical of Overguard? Sure, fair and valid, but many other Warframes, essentially do similar, just in different ways. Revenant, Styanax, Citrine, Nezha, Trinity, Wisp, Vazarin, Protea, as far as increasing your EHP. Except... if risk is enemies ability to threaten our HP pools... then you don't necessarily need Warframe abilities to make us more tanky/survive better to minimise that risk, since many CC Warframes can minimise that risk as well. Vauban, Nyx, Khora, Banshee, Mag. Then... just straight up killing enemies also has a large benefit and boost to your survival and reducing risk, so Saryn, Mesa, Xaku, Kullervo, Dagath. Then you have several Warframes that can do a bit of some of these, like provide protective structures, DPS, inflict cold statuses...

Like obviously a lot of this is more nuance and complex, and can play out differently in different situations... It makes sense that people have preferences and some Warframes can support or hinder preferences, but I think people should be careful when they point fingers at other peoples negative influences on their personal experiences... Why? Well are you sure you are the main character? What if its actually your behaviour thats making people think they need to solo? Is that your intent? To frustrate and irritate people? Then why not extend that good faith to others, even those whose play styles might differ. The game is frequently adding content to the game, where dying is the biggest penalty. I had to fight 4 Void Angels in last weeks Archimedea because everyone else in the group kept dying... we pulled through, was fun, but the others definitely would have loved to have a Dante, Styanax, Trinity, Citrine, Revenant providing some support and helping them survive. Everything you potentially can do, may have a negative, positive, neutral effect on others experiences, sometimes the important bit is just being considerate and accomodating when and if you can (and hope they do similar).