(PSN)slightconfuzzled

You may, want to give more build info, screenshots, or video demonstration or just generally more info. Like there is so much that can vary weapon performance and output, and you did give some info, but eh. Like threads like this often pop up, and sometimes a person may be using Critical Delay, and thats okay, but sometimes certain weapons may prefer the fire rate over the extra crit, but then for certain specific reasons. There is also testing the weapons and mods in a relative vacuum (like you attempt to make certain things equal) versus the idea of comparing the builds that take into account strengths. Then yes also factors like slash damage and where/how you are getting that, as well as potentially elemental weighting, and how Ignis already comes with heat, and then what exactly does "superior to everything" necessarily mean. Upfront damage, tick damage? What do the results look like further in Steel Path? Which weapon hits max stacks of Viral first? Against singular enemies or mods? I also say may, because personally I don't actually care too much about these specific weapons, beam weapons do have some general differences, but I would just say look at the wikia, I am too lazy to try to write down precisely and accurately, but potentially someone else can look at your info and provide explanations. Like I haven't used Ignis since prior to some of the headshot changes, and I personally always thought Phantasma was generally better for Steel Path, but one obvious ignis Wraith strength is its ability to hit multiple enemies, but IIRC you may want to increase its fire rate, and if comparing to a weapon that has a way to proc slash, be mindful of that with comparisons. Also sometimes, on paper, everything being the same, isn't necessarily... Weapon comparisons can be nuanced, not just weapon to weapon, but build to build. Especially when you consider weapon strengths/weaknesses and how you want to play into that, with say Bane mods and how they affect procs, and mods like hunter munitions, how multishot works, bodyshots versus head, innate weighting... There is a lot of stuff to consider and be aware of. Even as someone who enjoys and really gets into numbers and comparisons and stats and all that, even I often just turn my brain off and just go off "feel", because of the amount of work that can be delved into.

I mean a lot of different topics are being brought up. I'll try and be concise. The meta, and people trying to follow the meta aren't the same thing. The meta also isn't some single universal non variable idea, that can be applied to a game like Warframe. For example the Profit Taker speed running meta is different from Survival level cap metas, is different from generally considered meta picks for the broader general game, as in Warframes or weapons that generally are most effective in general, which in context is a bit funny, but this is generally a PVE game, where usually you fight larger groups of enemies, even in modes like say Disruption and Interception. Like meta in PVE and PVP, whether solo, or squad based, will be different. What that also means, is that people on Forums and how they understand, talk and communicate the meta will be different... I play with a lot of peopel who attempt to follow the meta on paper... but don't actually have the knowledge or understanding of how/why their tools are considered the meta. Also, no negative judgement from me, I am not knocking such players, often when people are learning, hey need to practice and get experience, and then that often helps them understand the synergies and why such tools are the meta. That being said... there are also those who think they are the king of the game, because they watched a BigDeeWarframe69 video on best Warframes and weapons and copied the builds, and think they are the best. Meta can have an objective criteria (but then the emphasis is on actually establishing an objective criteria, and some people can do that better than others), and fun is often largely subjective. Also what does one mean by "lately?", AOE has been prevalent in Warframe for a long time, but AOE itself is also a term like meta, where framing and context matters. Onos and Ruvox could even be considered anti-examples, because of how relatively underwhelming they are. Mentioning Lavos, Citrine and Sevagoth alongside Caliban and Limbo? Subjective interpretation sure, but is that actually accurate? Worrying about the death of diversity in the game, can be valid, but it can also essentially be meaningless, unless people can also establish a somewhat objective criteria, thats credible or reaches consensus some way. Especially when we ask questions around "lately". as in the last year? Last 2? 5? Not just that but AOE in itself is such a poorly communicated term in forums. You know the Trumna has AOE? Not the alt fire, the actual primary fire, has a small AOE component. Its obviously not the same kind of AOE as the alt fire or Bramma, but neither is the Tenet Arca Plasma, which also has a different kind of AOE to normal Arca Plasma. Citrine has an AOE ability, but its more of a cone, different to say Xaku, which is different to say Saryn, which is different to say Frost. There is deeper nuance here, and if we just generalise it all, well a lot of context and meaning is loss. People have also been worrying about the death of diversity in Warframe since 2013. Then some of them who stopped playing in 2014, might look at Warframe gameplay in 2024 and think "see i was right", but thats where subjectivity and understanding comes into play. Personally I regularly play "off meta" because thats more fun to me. Daikyu, Paris (prior to its Incarnon), Tigris, Sybaris, Ivara, apparently Citrine and Lavos... in PUBS, and I usually have stuff to do. Actually often I end up over performing, but naturally it also depends. If i load into a star chart Exterminate and Capture, if there is a someone with an AOE weapon or like a Xaku, do I get to do much? No... but thats more to do with you know, star chart level Capture or Exterminate where people want to rush cracking Relics. To be clear, I think its a valid concern to have, but man there are a lot of topics being covered here and not all of them are necessarily grounded enough, and not necessarily the sort that should be taken for granted.

Hello, and welcome to the Forums. Nothing wrong with being sensitive, but its not really about that, rather its about being informed and educated. For example are you sure you actually want your 9 year old son watching Warframe content in general? Watching a stream and playing the game itself aren't quite the same, and Age Rating classifications can differ country to country, and certain elements of why Warframe can be rated higher can be toned down (like the gore), but there are still a lot of mature elements within the game, that I wouldn't want a child of mine exposed to, unless I had really had serious conversations with them about them (such as micro transactions), and there are also mature themes in several parts of the game. Thats before we even address the nature of streamers who may not even be associated with DE and Warframe, and thats before we even get into the nature of general parenting styles and approaches and ideas different parents take when it comes to protecting their child from outside influences. Parenting can be a tough, selfless, thankless task, I know from personal experience, but thats just par for course. Its been a while since I had to be knowledgable for parenting concerns around children in that age range, and there are a lot of variables involved with such situations, like country, income, schooling situation, family arrangement, and so on, but if your child is going to school, and can access the internet in ways you may not be able to observe or control, even despite your best efforts otherwise, I generally found the open line of communication with the child, worked better. Meaning you have to talk to them, and set boundaries and set up lines of communication, so they value being open and honest with you, even over sensitive or "vulgar" issues. Like unless you live somewhere with little internet access and home school them, chances are they are going to hear much much worse. Mom jokes are like entry level issues. They have also been around for like hundreds of years. When I was at school shock/gore videos were a thing. Addressing issues with your son, is going to be better than them being exposed to such things, but feeling like they can't talk to you about them, because they are worried about the percussions/consequences. Also try to remember that technology and society moves constantly. Your children is usually going to be experiencing environments and conditions neither your or your parents experienced, so its not always a good idea to think replicating how they taught you, will work, or that your child will face the exact same issues as you might have. Like social media is a much larger influence now than say 20 years ago. Good luck though all the same.

Yeah, I agree with this. With kindness and empathy, and sincerely, because Warframe has, and is going to have a lot of errors and glitches of this nature, and if its going to affect someone so negatively, its probably better for them to leave the game, sooner. Like there are a lot of things that just get put on the back burner, especially more niche issues that overall less people care about. Thats not to say its not valid for such people to care about it, but if you are a very small minority of people that cares about something so specific to the point its going to have a detrimental affect on your quality of life... Its the kind of thing that needs to be managed preemptively. Like its the sort of thing that might bother some people, but even a lot of them, even if bothered will know how to sort of minimise that negativity, and put in perspective. Not everyone can do that, and thats okay too, but it also means having to try manage such issues. Like if its an issue in a video game around stats which might not be perfect or accurate. OP, i don't mean this lightly, but if you can? Try not to worry too much about the numbers/stats being off. I don't know your situation of if what I am suggesting is feasible, if its not, then I am not really sure what else can be done. Its usually not the sort of thing most people or DE prioritises to be fixed. Like the Eidolon stats in profile are weirdly glitched as well (I forget the exact issue), and many of the games other stats have weird issues due to certain interactions, that aren't necessarily inaccurate just... (like how sometimes enemies can classify as crates and so certain Warframe abilities can get a lot of "opened crate" stats, due to such interactions, anyway... Do try to enjoy the game, but also do try to look after yourself and how you feel/think, including knowing what to do if a game is making you feel negative. All the best, take care everyone.

Grendel. See when he was released he was fairly straight forward work horse style worker. Nothing flashy, no gimmicks, he just use to straight up eat people. Devour them, tuck them away in his tummy basket. Literally munch their flesh. Like Saturn devouring his son, but every Grineer, Corpus, Infested etc are his children, in this analogy. That was on release though, see a few years down the road, and Yareli is released. With a cutesy vibe and frilly dress and throwing up gang symbols with her hands, and hugging her eldritch abomination ketamine skateboard, Yareli was polarising. Some people liked the anime stylings and mannerisms, and some people were the Clint Eastward looking disgusted GIF. Grendel though, he saw an opportunity, he saw Yareli trying to make a splash and trying to muscle her way onto the card, she was pointing at the sign, and in the age of social media, even having a lot of haters can be profitable, so Grendel did the unexpected... He changed and developed a new ability, and this new ability wasn't just strong and one to quickly become one of the top used Helminths... Grendel used this ability with a new voice line, as he uttered... UWU. Now Grendel was just as cute, just as kawaii, just as anime, just as girly as Yareli. He had stolen her gimmick, just like he stole her animation stance/idle animations (well stole, but also 50 Plat), and now he was the UWU master. Now he reigns as the UWU master, he can't eat as many as he used to, but he eats up Gimmicks, and now he is undisputed, undoubtedly, without question the Master of the Gimmick the UWU King. ~#OWO#~

I don't have super strong feelings one direction or others, I think people make valid points sincere to their preferences and beliefs around such things. That being said, there are a few points here and there that interest me. Like the idea or criticism of "artificial difficulty", can be a bit clunky as far as communicating ideas. Not necessarily an inherently right or wrong term to use, it depends on context. Like I personally first remember the term being used as a criticism/complaint towards "bullet sponges" which is another term that I think works better when context is established and acknowledged. Some games in the past, way to give hard modes, was to inflate health pools of some enemies, and sometimes just that, so players needed to expend more ammo/bullets to kill them. Nothing about AI changes, or behaviour. nothing else changed balance wise, just you need more time, to shoot the same enemy more. In some cases the health inflation is so much, some enemies just seemed like bullet sponges. In the worst examples, people could generally agree on, the challenge not feeling as "organic" or "genuine", and more like a cheap way to extend a games life or lock certain rewards behind it and so on, thus making the change, also seem like "artificial difficulty" as we could also describe a few other ways. Like say low effort, or cheap. Like imagine if we got Whispers in the Wall, but it was just the Gas City Tile set, but all the buildings were blue. Wait a minute... this is just Blue Jupiter Gas City? Where are our new tile sets, this is just cheap assets reusing. Just using a blue colour scheme is an artificial attempt at seeming different. That being said, I personally avoid using certain terms when I can, because I believe some people use such terms without context and nuance, and such terms can get a bit loaded as a result. Like there are cases, where I think that inflating an enemies HP, reusing assets and colour scheme swaps are effective and work, and even good. Still being artificial, but without the negative elements. So often there is this disconnect that occurs between making the game difficult and "actually" making the game difficult, because you ask and explore what someone believes "actually" makes the game difficult or challenging in a good, positive and neutral way, and you "actually" discover that there will be people that disagree. Which for some seems obvious, but the conversation can include subjective viewpoints and preferences, but people can also make objective criteria to, for reference. Then there is the ability to understand, versus agree and endorse, let alone form preferences around. For example, I personally think that some Warframe players get too wrapped up in the idea that DE is trying to offer "difficulty" in situations, the intent seems more nuanced and multiple. For example... I am generally not the biggest fan of time gating/time gates. I don't have an intense hatred or dislike of them or anything, but to my current understanding, time gating certain systems, is a pretty strong industry prevalent technique for retention. Like i remember a few years back, DE Rebecca explained and talked about how Daily Sorties were one of if not the most popular/populated aspects of Warframe. Which made sense to me, there was plenty of content in public I would end up having to do solo, but 9 times out of 10, if I did a Sortie it would be max squad. I may have a small dislike of time gating stuff, but I still participate in Archon Hunts, and Netracells, and I miss a few here and there, but overall, it probably does motivate me a bit more to log in on certain days, like the day before reset. I do imagine there are downsides, after all I am not against them or critical for no reason, I have reasons, just they are not intensely strong negative reasons, or exclusively negative/critical either. So I am a bit critical, and a bit negative, but also a bit positive and I do enjoy them too, and so I also understand why DE implements them, but also... they are a bit more of a challenge overall, but I don't think they exist solely for the challenge. They also create a gameplay loop, as well as the retention aspect. Archons hunts being weekly, you want to get a certain reward. That reward can make the rest of the game "easier" or some other desirable effect. Including the actual activity you just did. Archons were and are pretty polarising though, but so were Sorties to, for some. Just like Raids were, just like Eidolons are... There are a lot of activities in this game, that aren't universally loved. Which to be clear, isn't my way of saying that criticisms shouldn't be welcome or aren't valid, just you know, context. Like and this isn't to counter or disagree with OP's points, because load outs are randomised, but also in such a way where you can specialise and adapt your load outs still as well. Like you get three choices and some of those choices have multiple weapons that count, and you can also modify them (meaning using mods you have grinded for, to specialise for a task). Its not completely and totally RNG, its selective RNG, which is meaningfully different, at least to some. So its a kind of limiting factor, so you have to reassess and reevaluate some of your tools and synergy between tools, which for some, is fun, because it requires knowledge and understanding of your tools and synergy to craft a potentially new synergy for a given task. So its testing your knowledge and intimacy of the games mechanics. Now, I am not saying that everyone and all will necessarily enjoy that, nor am I saying that I do (I do, to some extent), but I can understand it. For example, I think the sub 1 minute Profit Taker runs are crazy awesome, and I can understand the appeal, in speed running, but... not for me. I wouldn't enjoy that. Imagine if DE made a new mission where you had to kill PT in less than a minute to get the new awesome exclusive reward lol. Now I can do Profit Taker pretty fast, and carry, and I can go under 3 minutes, but ehhh. Likewise the loot. I get that many will want maximum loot rewards, but once you unlock the Elite version, you can get get most of the rewards that most seem people be interesting in, by giving yourself a freebie spot. Like if I had to nominate one for this week, it would be Styanax probably. I hear some people recommend the Tool modifier so you have access to tools, but week to week, there will likely be some great options/choices. Again though, importantly, doesn't necessarily invalidate or dismiss peoples criticisms, concerns or objections, but... in context... Its why many won't push back on such ideas. Unless people and by people I mean a very noticeable majority are so critical of the mode, they do not engage in it, well, but also that works a little in such peoples favours too, in the sense, that you may also only need to be enough of a majority who wants improvements and to be clear and vocal about them, to suggest adjustments and then those will likely eventually come. Since DE usually wants to try and make as many people as happy as they can, and even if people engage in a system, they often usually refine and improve modes over time. See Kuva Lich improvements, Archon Hunt DA changes, Circuit improvements, Eidolon improvements. Just also try to remember to actually try and include specific suggestions. Like maybe specifically asking that we can get two freebies options, or certain specific modifies adjusted or altered etc.

Oh man, can't believe I forget the Sepulcrum. For the longest time I compared that weapon (unfairly) to the Trumna, but its pretty fun and the sound design is great. How about GazeInLove. As in you know? Crazy In Love by Beyonce? GazE sort of sounds like crazy? Oh no, you are right, its horrendous.

Interesting question. When it comes to Primaries, I have a pretty solid and long list of my favourite sounding weapons. Secondaries though? Less time and consideration. I do quite like the Epitaph. the alt fire sounds like a spectral swhish, like its a creaking splash, and the main fire is like a more built up slicing version. I also like the energy beam sounds of Nukor and Atomos, but Atomos Incarnon even more since you stilll get the beam but also get the Incarnon form version too. Quite like the Magnus Prime, Vasto Prime, for more traditional classic gun sound design. I also can't remember the exact sound of it of the top of my head so easily right now, but I think I quite like the sound of the Athodai getting head shots and then getting its buff activated and how it sounds in that mode. I need to revisit that weapon now we have more Secondary Arcanes. Likewise the Knell Prime and its buff (but I think I preferred the sound of the Athodai more, but the buff of the Knell more). I think some of the Kitgun Secondaries had fun sound design, I just can't remember them enough anymore.

Hah, don't be silly... You forget that Nezha's new augment was also nerfed for being "too good". So its not just new Warframes...

I am not sure. I imagine the most honest and concise answer to such a question would be hard to figure out. Forums are a minority of a minority, and Warframes player base is spread out across many forums and social media, and thats just counting those that engage with it in that way, and not just those that are larger. Then you also have many of the players who don't even use or realise the issue, as well as those who might have more nuanced/apathetic takes, Personally? Eh, I prefer that they don't use charges. I find it a bit archaic, and for a bit I even thought it was an intended change. I remember building Air Charges in the past, and used a few on occasion, but eh. Then I started to use them more when Zariman launched, and we got Parallax, for Void Plumes. Then I noticed I was just stuck at 46 Air Charges and figured it was an intentional change. Made getting Plumes great in those missions where some people were impatient. Then I used the Kahl beacon a few times, also no charges used, because at that point I just thought it was by design. Then I read somewhere on a Forum that it was a bug because older Air Supports were still using the charges... and I thought that was daff, since the two newest in my opinion were the best, so it definitely sucked if people were using the old ones and additionally expending charges. Personally I think they should just cost nothing. Then it again it doesn't actually bother me too much either overall. I already have a lot of Plumes, Voca, all my Kuria, and other such searchables, way too many Ayatan. I did like using the Air Support for randoms and newer players though. Since its cool down based and not everyone knows about them, was nice to come across the secret crates that way too. Now I probably won't spam it as much or randomly. At the least I think they should add a 100 x Blueprint. Its also the sort of thing that I can see and understand why they would want to be a resource sink as well.

Great video and demonstration. There is one idea I would like to touch on though. I need to add a little context first though. When it comes to Warframe and Warframes themselves, personally I prioritise fun. Not whatever Warframe I think is most powerful or will make playing easier, or whatever will give me a challenge or equal satisfaction around risks or similar ideas. However since I find about 30 different Warframes fun and use them relatively regularly, I usually end up experiencing all of above anyway as a byproduct. When I see people claiming that Dante and Noctua are weak, unplayable, destroyed, not great etc yeah my initial unfiltered reaction is to roll my eyes a little sure, but I also remember that its not great to reduce any and all criticisms and negativity into the most uncharitable versions, nor to conflate all criticisms, negativity, objections and so on into an extreme. For one, thats ironically similar behaviour, you can be guilty of going from extreme to another. If everyone did that we would only end up with two sets of people, whiners, trolls, crybabies on one side, and shills, white knights on the other. Two. People in general aren't always the best or most clear communicators. I think a lot of people talk about Dante changes and its less about being good or fine, and its more often about that don't enjoy him as much. Not as fun. Lastly, its often ineffective. I have seen a lot of people with criticisms, and a video won't change most of their minds. I can even already envision several potential arguments, which then themselves also have counter arguments, and counter arguments... and thats what happens on Forums anyway. To sort of short cut all of that though with an example below. Hydroid was recently changed a few months back, I personally could have used old Hydroid to solo Netracells and Deep Archimedea. Its because I am sweaty and try hard and know my Warframe tool synergies well, and i know many others could as well. That being said Hydroid was changed and reworked and I think objectively more powerful overall, and subjectively more fun now. Just because people could have completed such missions pre rework, can't mean they won't like or appreciate the new changes/adjustments. Basically, I get the sentiment, and I also personally disagree with the sentiment that Dante and Noctua are weak, but sometimes when you see peoples expressions you disagree with, you can try to nah uh them, and "prove them wrong", but you can also re-contextualise what they are saying, even if you still end up disagreeing, you can understand the nuance and sincerity of their points better. Which also means you can address and potentially counter them better too. Regardless of above though video was great. I don't personally like the Afentis enough to use it this way lol, but I have my own synergies and builds I am finding effective enough.

I'm not! Yesterday I played with my friend and we were matched with a Dante In Deep Archimedea, and it was yucky and stinky! Like, there was basically no point in us even being there, besides the rewards. The Dante player kept on saying weird things, like "Hey guys", "nice fashion", "how is everyone?", "you guys did great" and "GG", like bruh, you brought a Dante to a PUG, brah. At no point did I think we would fail the mission. I had like 200 Trillion Overguard, which shouldn't be technically possibly, maybe they had a red shard or something, but basically they ruined my experience. We also played with a Wukong and Mesa in a Radiation Mobile Defence Sortie. The Wukong was AFK, and the Mesa stood in a radiation cloud and killed us and the defence point, we pretty much failed in the first minute lol. It was great though, it was exciting. Especially since the Mesa was insulting and swearing at us, but they were actually like you know... being real. They respected us, they challenged us, they failed the mission for is, they didn't hold our hands or treat us like babies, who need Overguard. It was enlightening, next level. Meaningful. An actual Warframe experience. Our bond in that failed mission was so deep and special, we are now a polyamorous quintet living on the Moon together. Why the Moon you might ask? Closer to death, actual risks, no pesky Overguard to get in our way from experiencing life and death, with meaning! (To be more serious though, I do actually sympathise, just... I have played a lot of "try hard", and supposedly "hardest games to beat", solo player type games, games I often didn't realise had a reputation. A lot of them I never really found hard, because I enjoyed them in such a way, where my mind sort of separates difficulty from observation and learning, and often just being patience, calm, and with semi decent reflexes... Regardless I can look back and know I enjoyed many of them, because they were challenging and had risks involved. Warframe though? There are many many ways, you can interact and influence someone else's games. Being critical of Overguard? Sure, fair and valid, but many other Warframes, essentially do similar, just in different ways. Revenant, Styanax, Citrine, Nezha, Trinity, Wisp, Vazarin, Protea, as far as increasing your EHP. Except... if risk is enemies ability to threaten our HP pools... then you don't necessarily need Warframe abilities to make us more tanky/survive better to minimise that risk, since many CC Warframes can minimise that risk as well. Vauban, Nyx, Khora, Banshee, Mag. Then... just straight up killing enemies also has a large benefit and boost to your survival and reducing risk, so Saryn, Mesa, Xaku, Kullervo, Dagath. Then you have several Warframes that can do a bit of some of these, like provide protective structures, DPS, inflict cold statuses... Like obviously a lot of this is more nuance and complex, and can play out differently in different situations... It makes sense that people have preferences and some Warframes can support or hinder preferences, but I think people should be careful when they point fingers at other peoples negative influences on their personal experiences... Why? Well are you sure you are the main character? What if its actually your behaviour thats making people think they need to solo? Is that your intent? To frustrate and irritate people? Then why not extend that good faith to others, even those whose play styles might differ. The game is frequently adding content to the game, where dying is the biggest penalty. I had to fight 4 Void Angels in last weeks Archimedea because everyone else in the group kept dying... we pulled through, was fun, but the others definitely would have loved to have a Dante, Styanax, Trinity, Citrine, Revenant providing some support and helping them survive. Everything you potentially can do, may have a negative, positive, neutral effect on others experiences, sometimes the important bit is just being considerate and accomodating when and if you can (and hope they do similar).

I apologise in advance if this is 100% candid, sincere and genuine, just that as someone who often says things that "aren't real", specifically I often write satirically, ironically, to joke, banter, or self depreciating humour, this post doesn't come across as... real. For example, the over emphasis on honesty. A lot of people do preface or mention honesty when expressing themselves, especially when they are aware what they might be saying may be controversial or polarising, but usually its framed to be directed at them, as in actual people who might be a bit incredulous, or similar. If its used too often, and or directed at say a company those business is feedback, its a bit odd. Like honestly, you are better off just ascending through the sky, growing in size and proportions until you block out the sun, and then shouting at the world. Honestly its the only way to really get an honest answer from DE these days. To transcend your mortal form and become a god entity, and TBH its actually easier than you think you just need to click this link in the next 30 minutes, before Big Pharma try to silence my post for speaking the truth. You know I am telling the truth, because I said honestly, and who would like on the Internet like that. Doctors hate this one trick. The risk you describe and the enjoyment being robbed, it yeah, seems pretty feasible and makes sense. You don't enjoy the offensive capabilities of your Warframe though? Your strategy doesn't include anything about offence? All Warframes can influence and affect your survivability in ways that enhance your ability to survive and enemies risk to you. I'll quickly name a few off the top of my head. Revenant, and Nezha with augments, Styanax, Citrine and DR/Healing, Trinity with DR and healing, Wisp with HP gain/HP regen. Vauban, Nyx, Banshee, Mag, can CC enemies in such a way they can't really threaten you unless they are maybe Eximus. Saryn, Mesa, Xaku can probably kill enemies before they threaten you, Ivara can turn you invisible, so can Ash, Protea can keep your shields up, I should stop here because I could keep going... Again, not undermining or invalidating such claims... the subjective feeling of that risk, and reward from feeling like your skill, and strategy paid off, can potentially and will get robbed by the actions of others... and you can also rob others of that unintentionally. So then it gets a bit tricky, because how can you be so sure that you haven't robbed other people of that sensation and experience? Which is why as a serious issue, if intended seriously... well it falls apart a bit, because usually the solution is understanding and acknowledging other peoples playstyles, your own, and how they interact. Some people may have differences in preferences, but they also know the idea of accomodating others, especially if they mean no harm or offence, and are playing what they view as considerably as they can. For many many Warframes kits, that means effecting others games, via support, via CC or via DPS (which as many DPS mains know, is also a kind of healing, because preventing enemies from hurting you by killing them, is a valid way of preventing harm)

Not to invalidate or undermine any individuals issues, objections, criticisms or just plain dislike of the mode, but to my perception the design of the challenge is multifaceted and different components working together, some which on their own, have their own relative ranges. For example, there is a scale to the rewards. The more modifiers, out of the ones you have choices over, that is, that you ignore, the lesser your potential rewards. The more you engage in, the more. then there is also an RNG aspects to that. So in some ways, the challenge can actually be reduced or amplified, depending on RNG. So its not necessarily just about challenge, but preventing players with an obstacle and limiting the tools they can have access. Then you also have to consider those tools, and also importantly the synergy between those tools, and the obstacles you are facing, and then use your knowledge and understanding of the tools, synergy and obstacle, and select around that. For example, many people believe Saryn to be pretty powerful, and I am one of them, but my own Saryn build is a bit of a glass cannon, and if I were soloing or doing protection missions or fighting Murmur Assassination then ehh... Not to mention their are some modifiers you don't get to choose, just overcome. There is also a bit of risk/reward. For example? This week, if I had to solo, I might just choose to ignore the last reward, since I already have plenty of Vosfor (sp?), and just pick Styanax, since I know I won't have to rely on any weapons (my weapons this week aren't that good), or worry about many of the other modifiers. Oh and if I did PUG, I probably would do the exact same thing, and know I could not only carry, but make it easier for others, by providing a lot of energy and overguard. In contrast, last week was much easier because I got a Warframe (Kullervo), and weapons (Incarnon Furis and Incarnon Anku), that were pretty good, and the modifiers didn't slow me down too much. There is another aspect to all this as well. Personally, I am always happy to carry, but also, the way I play the game, is to be at a level where I can solo if needed. Since a lot of my early game time, was solo, a lot of doing my Steel Path nodes, was solo, and I also like solo missions, for the ability to pause. Plus I use to like Steel Path Disruption, and even when trying to do Public, well not very popular nodes. I also like to experiment and use a wide range of weapons, plus I have just played for a long time, so skill wise, mechanics wise and knowledge wise... Its also a game, so for me, I don't really play with randoms and expect them to hold up any sort of perceived contract around playing to an elite or high level. As long as people aren't rude, hostile etc, I don't really care if they suck or struggle, they might be young, or old, or playing with one hand, or partially blind or some other reason, they might want a reward and if they can get to the mission requirements to participate, thats fine by me. Not only that, but maybe one week, I might be paired with people with better gear, skills, and performance than me, maybe. It is really nice when a team has synergy and works well cooperatively, but I still have fun either helping, or being shown up by others (well again, thats rare, but more so just because I have been in the game for ages. There are plenty of people who make me look slow at Eidolons and PT though, but most people I know, who are really good at the game in that way, don't really care about others performance being weaker, usually its people who tend to be average who get hostile towards others "not pulling their weight". Again, to be super clear, I am in no way implying or saying that I think people should enjoy, like, or not be critical or dislike the mode, for whatever reasons. Likewise have different ideas about what actual or real challenge is, game design, etc.

Thanks and all good, feel free to nitpick as much as you so desire. I agree with a lot of your general points, and don't really disagree with others. One thing I was a bit uncertain with, with your framing though, is I am not sure you are nitpicking my last line, or how exactly what you wrote, relates to it? Like were you just using it as a jumping off point, or did something I write seem counter to what you believe and write above here? Nothing major though. The only other bit I would add, and I think its inherently tricky, because it touches on issues of self expression and communication and also touches a little on good faith communication and ideas, as well as power dynamics and transparency, but... Well for myself I am always a little weary of when and how i use hyperbole and exaggeration. Like anecdotally, when I checked the Forums, and Reddit on day one, because I tend to habitually do so, even though I knew it would be 3 or 4 days before I touched Dante (I planned to grind him and build him without rushing), there was a decent amount of feedback from people claiming he was "too strong" and "crazy OP" and "will" and "should get nerfed", and even since then i have seen a fair bot of rhetoric since as well, around the idea that he needed to be addressed. In a purely linguistics and communication sort of way, a lot of this interests me... Like how people engage, communicate and use rhetoric. Like the other day someone replied to me, about how they wanted honest and candid responses from DE, but they also used one of the most common, and popular rhetorical techniques people often used to implicitly give their words more weight and credit by framing what they were writing as speaking for a larger majority... I remember thinking Angels of Zariman was a pretty good update, but like a few different Warframe updates, if the update is a bit polarising, we often get more negativity in the Forums, even if later polls, surveys, and general forum attitudes are much more favourable to it/them. Or to put it another way, like many things, different peoples different skill levels can determine or inform or frame preferences and opinions they have, and how they communicate it. Some people are more skilled at being objective for example, communication, being more clear, being concise (I am personally horrible at being concise), and to be super explicit, I think all peoples feedback is valid, inherently. Regardless of how skilled they might be at communicating it or framing it, and I think you understand that based on your position and emphasis on keeping your base happy. For me though, well there has been a lot of feedback, and its not all so simple, clean or necessarily easy to process. Anecdotal but I have seen a lot more feedback from people in the last few days, towards other people over their perceived hyperbole and exaggeration, than in the prior where more of the feedback was negativity towards the nerfs themselves. Which isn't a new pattern... Reddit is great for this, because we can track dates and patterns of upvoting and downvoting sentiment in threads and comments, and how time can influence attitudes. Also not in the sense that those people (peoples takes on others hyperbole), necessarily are defending DE or supporting the nerfs... just they are coming into conflict and competition with people who, to them seem to be going to extremes with their reactions. To put it another way, to my perception, there was an early wave of "Dante too strong, needs adjusting", and then their started to be backlash to that sentiment before the nerfs even came, and that was a particularly large set of backlash to early impression... then the nerfs came, and that secondary type of backlash swelled even larger, especially when the first fix was poorly implemented, but then those were adjusted further, and we had Prime Time... and then now to my perception there are a lot more waves, but smaller, but now such waves are much generally smaller but they are more complicated in what they are addressing. Now you have... you could have 20 people. 10 who think Dante is fine right now, and 10 who think he isn't. Then out of the latter 10 5 might want LOS removed, and range nerfed, and the other 5 might want range kept and LOS altered... the original 10, 5 might be fine even if buffs are made, 5 might be bothered by power creep if buffs are added... Then any number of them might agree with someone else, but disagree about how "extreme" their phrasing is. Like even if you remove DE from the equation, trying to find some sort of majority consensus can be tough... A lot of people can share some ideas, but then split and deviate over others. For example, I think this was a bit of a hype killer, but I personally wouldn't frame it as hype being destroyed in caps. Just personally, but not in a way thats critical of your ability to express such views. Ideas like "it soured many returning veterans who will now abandon the game again" eh, they have weight to them. Like such lines can be pretty easy to say, but how truely accurate are they, and which people are in the best position to objectively decide and discern as such? Like have you ever seen someone who has implicitly inferred to be speaking on your behalf but disagreed with them? Only to engage with them, and find out their ways of appraising such a situation seemed more to do with bias than anything more accurate or substantial, or they were using data gathering techniques you found flawed or overlooked important factors and or variables? I consider myself pretty good at assessing data and putting it into context, but for myself looking at different threads in the forums, and reddit, and from Youtube and a few different content creators... Phew, there is a lot of potential info and data to grab and collect and compare, to the point where I myself wouldn't personally attempt to say anything with certainty especially when you have to consider lurkers, people who don't necessarily vocalise their views/opinions, and other such variables, like types of players, base, and the time variables as far as when and how they engage with the game, and then form opinions, as well as patterns and trends to do with positivity, negativity and apathy. Anyway I enjoyed your input, and like I said, don't necessarily disagree with most of it, and agree with much of it, at least in general terms. Some of framing around certain ideas and numbers, I view as too complex to commit to personally, but thats just me.

Different strokes for different folks and all that. For myself, the way I play, often the game has different levels of tempo. Not just that, bit different missions can have different tempos as well. For example one of the more common Netracell key modifiers involves an energy drain when surrounded by a certain amount of enemies. I also don't need to kill enemies when I am doing the searching part of the mission, so my energy will slowly uptick. I can still cast some abilities whilst moving, and if I happen to kill an enemy and get an Energy Orb, thats pretty nice too, but since I am not really prioritising killing enemies and they are more spread out, I don't need them to drop energy orbs. Then in the red circle part of the Netracell mission, the tempo is quite different. Now if surrounded by enemies, my energy economy dynamics change. I'll already have a large bank of stored energy via Flow, and the drain itself can be offset a little by Nexus, so I can spam quite a bit, and can also get/see more energy orbs around. That way I also free up an Arcane slot, since I like variety, and I personally relied on Energise for years. It feels kind of nice when I can have builds that don't need it. Then, for me, a lot of my builds, if I don't have energy, and being solo, and having said Eximus modifier, which can make reviving via Last Gasp trickier, death is really really bad, so having two different types of energy economy tool, is really helpful, even if it means temporarily one may be redundant, at some points (Nexus is also often like a light version of Preparation, because by the time I pick all 4 Keys, and hack the terminal, I already have more than enough energy for more than a few casts for my support abilities).

My personal take/thoughts are as follows. On release Dante was "over powered" but in an acceptable for Warframe way, where there are a few Warframes that are as if not more "over powered", either in regards to DPS (Saryn, Mesa, Xaku), tankiness (Revenant, Citrine), or some other measure or combination. More importantly though in my opinion, he was fun. I think he is decently strong now too, and I don't actually think that is necessarily controversial to say or illegitimate to say without providing build evidence, because this is Warframe. Peoples play styles, synergies with other tools, content they tackle will all differ and shape perceptions and views differently. I think he is decently strong, because for myself, taking a sub level 10 Warframe into a solo Netracell and or Steel Path Survival (or Omni Fissure), and completing it fast/easy, and or staying however long you wish, because your KPM is sufficient, is strong. That being said, I wouldn't enforce my standard for strength on others, so I also think its fine if others think he isn't strong or anything else. To entertain any who so desire though, my build is pretty basic, its just Corrupted Range mod, Stretch, Primed Flow, Primed Continuity, Umbra Mods (mostly to offset Strength loss), Energy Nexus. Arcanes are the one where you get increasingly more power strength per kill, and am still shifting the second Arcame. Have one Archon shard for Casting. Am still undecided on placing others. My build is pretty similar to what it was pre nerf. I used Noctua for energy economy if in a bind. That being said, even though I think he is strong, I think he is less fun. I think the changes were far too premature and unnecessary and sudden. I doubt it would happen, but I am in the "revert changes" camp. Yes I think it would him a bit overtuned, but I don't necessarily think that would be an outright bad thing. Personally, i would rather DE come out in 3 months, and say that Dante's usage numbers were far too high, and needed some adjusting and nerfs, and then toned down aspects of his kit then. I think more people would generally be more open to nerfs/adjustments if they were told that months of data were showing that Dante was on track to be too dominant, and "worse" than Wukong's usage stats. Plus at that stage we would have Protea Prime released, Jade released, the blow would be softened. Plus more people would have actually got hands on with Dante. Not just people who brought him, rushed him, or can play in the first few days. Also why do I find him less fun? Well I still think he is fun... just the levels and missions I have been taking on lately, a lot of them are on maps/tile sets, that are great, but a bit intricate... multi levelled. Netracells for example. The LOS changes, can be annoying, if you have a dozen enemies on one level, and a dozen on another, and pre nerf, you could hit them all, but then post changes, that doesn't always work out. Granted... I can also see why they might be weary around such issues... For example, I have a pretty active play style. That being said, I remember the demonstration of AOE weapons... Or how some people like to play the game in ways, I consider... well boring and also... I guess unintended? Like the potential to stand behind a door, and then spam to kill rooms of enemies. Not how I would ever play, but I can see why DE worries about that sort of thing. The idea of Dante hiding behind a wall spam killing mobs was probably a worry for some of them. So I think I understand some of their concerns, but ehh... I think its tricky to, because some peoples experiences will depend on the type of missions and tile sets you get. On certain Survival maps, enemies pour into larger open rooms, with no levels or structures to hinder your LOS. Dante with large range, and no enemies with Overgaurd or certain damage reduction mechanics, will still be destroyed pretty fast, but other missions, may have three different floors, and way more architecture, as well as more Eximus via Eximus Modifiers, or enemies with DA, and then the LOS can be fickle and potentially frustrating. Its something I like to personally consider when dealing with peoples different views around Dante. I may disagree, but also, depending on what they mean, I may not disagree as much. Its such aspects that contribute to why and how ideas around good and fun can be subjective, even if we can also create more objective criteria to use as a basis for comparisons/opinions. Also sometimes quick actions and reactions from DE are very much appreciated. I think thats more for fixes and bugs though. I think over much subjective preference player opinions, more time is favourable. I know I can learn to live with the LOS changes, but eh, its a bit of a hyper killer overall. Personally I also don't need every Warframe to be "over powered", I adore Dagath, Qorvex, Citrine, Kullervo, and I don't think the general community idea of any of them are that they are OP, but sometimes it can be nice to throw people off, with a Warframe that just seems like a true competitor to the meta straight off the bat (by the sake tone, I also thought the Nezha augment nerfs were a bit too harsh as well, because even though I think Nezha is strong and the augment was a bit overtuned, the augment being that good was a bit unexpected, but in a good way. I think sometimes such surprises are fun. Shakes up the meta in unexpected ways). That being said, I would hate to ever be someone involved with this side of game development and trying to deal with everyone else's preferences, ideas etc.

Only if they did a deep revision and rework of how they work and are implemented. Plus even then you would be introducing a system that might be more hassle then they are worth. I'll explain below. As far as changes, as an example, and this is is just random off the top of the head suggestions... 1. Remove the effect of the Arcane helmet from the actual cosmetic helmet. Like, some people won't like having to give up favourite fashion for stats, even if some stats are buffed. In some cases that can just make it worse. Ditto buffing them if dealing with decisions around the "Arcane helmet" and regular Arcanes. If you'd want to reintroduce them, you might as well just let people use both. 2. You might even want to adjust the "helmets" effects to be more unique and specialised around the Warframe. We have way more Arcanes now, and even systems like Shards for stat changes. Generic stat increases and buffs... we have many ways. Decoupling the aesthetic element, but also letting the effect just refine the actual Warframe,. Creating conflict with rewards/buffs as well as gear and tools, can not always be the best necessary, because you can get situations where many people will resent a reward and view it as worthless, even if others view the situation in the opposite way (think peoples issues with shard colours, reward table dilution, hard to get rewards not being worth it, or feeling forced to use certain tools for effectiveness).

I don't think they do no, just that I don't think they are certain on how to have it interact with the game in a way that are content or satisfied with wholly. Like CC can be potentially incredibly powerful as far as neutralising enemies, and potentially a way to lead to a more passive and less engaging style of gameplay, and I don't mean this in an exclusive way, because such potential lays elsewhere, but sometimes people when making comparisons about what DE allows and doesn't allow, sometimes miss, is, that its not black and white and context can matter. Which also isn't a defence or attack, criticism, endorsement or so on, either. Like i personally like a lot of CC Warframes, and personally wish that DE were more mindful of CC, and should seek to improve it, or adjust it in a way that could be considered a buff to CC Warframes, but I also consider Vauban quite underrated in general too. Like when I was a less skilled, and less proficient player, it was Vauban that let me solo Steel Path Interceptions. Granted that was before the Eximus Overguard changes, but I still often use Vauban to solo Archon Hunt Interceptions or carry in PUGS, where others are struggling. Like even with Eximus with Overguard, Vauban's CC, can do some solid work. Not just Vauban, many others as well, but just as an example. That being said... I do think that most CC Warframes are essentially in... Well playing them in modes like Netracell, and Deep Archimedia could be generally a lot harder and require more effort than say many of the other generalised Warframe types, outside certain factors, like good team synergy, weapons, other tools. Like I get what some at DE mean, like Pablo, when they talk about just turning off the enemy completely, is something they want to avoid. Personally, and I am not sure how they would go about this, but I was decently found of the idea, that CC abilities could have a way to debuff/do damage to "CC immune" enemies, so that they weren't completely ignored and could serve some sort of relative benefit. Like more of a midway point, which could then passively buff CC Warframes and not make fans of those Warframes feel like certain content is a hard counter to their play styles. Mechanically that may be tough to implement though.

No, no no. We want powerbombs, and tombstones. We want run ins and burning hammers. We all agreed that this year, I would get to speak on behalf of everyone, We all agreed and signed the legally binding documents. Therefore when I say we, I mean all of us, and everyone takes me seriously, because we all agreed I personally get to speak on behalf of everyone. Now if you mean, generally a decent portion of people, sure, thats fine, except there are also a portion of people who think some people are overreacting and taking things too personally, and plenty of people whose take may overlap but be a bit different. "We" don't all agree, and "we" all frame such things differently as well. Like I personally wish people would stop passively accusing other people of things, as if others should just take it for granted as true, or frames a situation that suits their own narrative, but I am just speaking for myself. Plus I get that when people express themselves that will often play loose and fast. Nuance and discretion, crazy right.

Agreed wholly and sincerely. I have been lucky enough to be around to have gotten all that stuff, but, not everyone will always be around for all of them, and I maintain that the game shouldn't have items that require two plus years of waiting in order to reacquire. Like, maybe a year, after the initial Nighwatve offer, maybe, but then they should be rotated into each new Nightwave eventually, even just making them available for Creds, so people who want it can, and people who don't can use the Creds elsewhere. That being said, this is something I believed they have been getting better with in recent years. I might not be right, but it feels like more stuff has retuned in the last two NW, from the past, than before. Could still be improved a little.

Agreed. I really need to know DE Rebecca's thoughts and reaction to this weekends Wrestlemania results. Which was her favourite match, who is her favourite performer, how she would have booked the Bloodline story, whether or not Dante will get to finish his story, whether we will get a true Grappling/Wrestling Warframe? I can't wait for the next Devstream. Plus the fact that Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens are Canadian, and that DE is a Canadian company. Like I am not implying that all people in Canada know each other... I am outright claiming that as a factual truth. No implication needed. There are also several anime that I would like to get her takes on, but DE Megan may be required for that one. I am not sure De Steve is as up to date. (Not to make light of your suggestion OP, I understand where you are coming from, but Dev Short day is pretty soon, and I don't think the negativity or drama of the current situation, actually warrants anything longer. Forums, have a tendency to overreact and get extreme, but we are still a minority of a minority of the player base. Not to imply that our feedback isn't valid, and I for one, think the nerfs/changes were premature and should be reverted, but I don't have any intense hatred or distaste or any personal feelings involved. Basically in a few months, this will just be added to the "times the Forums caught fire, alongside Regal Aya, AOE nerfs, Melee nerfs, Heirlooms, and insert other larger than usual, but not special negativity waves"). That being said, I'd also be welcome if they decided to extend the Devshort to cover more, am always happy for more info, but I'll be fine if they just say that they are still taking in feedback and considering stuff too.)

Ah, makes sense. I don't actually follow too many Warframe content creators, and the few I do occasionally pay attention to, like TheKengineer, AznvasionsPlays, etc tend to be more about context and numbers. I am not sure if they referred to the Noctua as "useless", but either way, its not like there are tests or licenses involved with content creation, they are just random people with opinions and takes, which can be as flawed or well considered as your average, random anonymous forum person. The Cedo if only compared directly to the Torid might as well be "useless", but thats also if we ignore a lot of important context and variables, like enjoyability, utility, variety, relative performance and so on. I think you are correct in not taking them too seriously because of that, since a lot of them also may rely on hyperbole or exaggeration or a certain style of commentary because their livelihood/income rely on it. Hence Warframe stuff falls into "best thing ever", "worst useless thing", and "everything else in-between aka meh aka average" Like in comparison to how he was on release, arguably Noctua is the "weakest part" of his kit, but eh... again, depends on how you might use it. I use mine to augment and boost his energy economy in certain situation. Thats handy. Lets me free up Arcane and Mod slots and yet still have a strong energy economy to spam a lot. Cheers and I appreciate your response as well. Have a good one!

Sort of depends on a few different factors. For me personally, the way I ended up with 400 plus Entrati Lanthorns, was by running solo Zariman Bounties, usually the fast types, like Exterminate, but also a few Void Floods. I used Xaku, a wide range build, since their 4 is an excellent box breaker, and I would look at my mini map, and just ensure that the map was cleared of all loot. Which was a great way to also get Void Plumes too. So breaking lots of boxes, and killing lots of enemies, which Xaku can also do well. There are alternatives though too, Limbo can box break, so can many AOE weapons, Lavos can, Gyre, even Dante the new Warframe can decently. Also in my opinion, the best way to get them... is to multitask, and try to make sure you are having fun. Do you need to evolve Incarnons? Level up weapons? Get Nightwaves tasks done? Test out and experiment and Forma your builds? Get more Focus? Get Void Plumes? Do those as well, that way if you don't get any Lanthorns in a run, you don't feel deflated and frustrated, you still get steady progress. Then when you are having fun, over time, you'll start to just realise you are accumulating a bunch of resources. The more you want/need something, the more you can potentially get frustrated when you don't get it. Which you know, sounds silly, but sometimes the best way to get the stuff you want, is to want it a little bit less (to trick the desire sensor lol). Good luck getting some Lanthorns though too.

I mean, I don't consider it useless, so i am not really sure how to address your post necessarily. Like if your implication is that you think its underrated, then I'd probably agree, but also, I don't know whose builds you are looking up and referencing, or why I should care about their builds exactly. Its a bit like if I claim that chocolate ice cream is overrated... because a lot of my friends consider it the best ice cream flavour ever... I mean, sure, but thats just a set selection of people. They don't necessarily represent all people. I also don't really consider its intent and design to be a DPS/KPM, level cap style weapon (on its own). I think it works well as a utility weapon, so Dante can have a way to procc many of the Tome mods, which can compliment many builds possible around his kit. Some people frame it as being in competition/conflict with his kit, but you can also use it to compliment his other abilities. So it could have value in high end hard content, but even as a utility weapon in lower content it can kill fast (and even kill in base Steel Path decently, depending on how you build). (Oh and welcome to the Forums!)