DrBorris
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Posts posted by DrBorris
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Well ain't this a heated topic.
I'd like to recontextualize Hydroid's current kit in a way I haven't seen many people acknowledge. That of a high mobility choke defender.
First, you use multiple castings of Tempest Barrage to keep multiple choke points in a room locked down. As enemies walk into your rain storms, they get knocked into neat little piles. When placing/maintaining these piles of bodies you are bullet jumping and Tidal Surging around, sometimes dolphin diving into Undertows to keep out of harms way. Once your piles are sufficiently piled, you then use Undertow and Tidal Surge to dash around the room to all of the choke points, gathering all enemies up into a single 'pile' inside Undertow. The scaling damage per enemy inside Undertow then quickly kills the enemies. Rinse and Repeat, with high enough spawn rates you can hopefully skip the "wait for big piles" step and be constantly gathering/DPSing.
Does this work in game? Lol, no. Barrage knocks enemies around, Tidal Surge still sucks at holding enemies, Puddle will just leave enemies behind, and the damage scaling is comical. But the theory... it was there. And sure, it was also a higher effort playstyle even in theory, but Limbo mains also exist.
For those giving the galaxy brain "Hydroid is better, be happy" take, I implore you to try to understand. Puddle wasn't just a thing that made Hydroid unique, it was one of the most unique abilities in the game. Outside of Undertow Hydroid has rain (a very basic CC), a basic dash (that many other Warframes have a variant of) and a big CC. There are plenty of great frames that just have variants and remixes of other abilities, but that's not all Hydroid had, he also had Puddle.
And I'll be honest, Pablo's (paraphrased) "Puddle doesn't make sense in this fast action game" sounded more like a lack of creativity. Why, exactly, did Puddle have to be slow? Like... at all? The Copium I was on when we heard at Tennocon that Hydroid was getting a new ability was that Tidal Surge and Undertow were being merged. Undertow turning from a movement impediment into an augment to movement. Standing still would be our traditional puddle but moving/sprinting would automatically put you into a Tidal Surge state.
Pablo's argument "we don't like abilities that remove enemies" is more fair, but Grendel got to keep his stomach just with a new hard limitation. Why could something similar not have been done for Hydroid? I wouldn't have have been opposed to complete removing the enemy consuming aspect of Undertow and kept it as a movement/stealth ability instead. If they wanted to keep the fantasy of consuming enemies it could be shifted to consuming corpses (for some sort of buff).
The salt in the wound is that Plunder is incredibly boring in gameplay. The way Pablo has integrated Corrosive into Hydroid's kit is fantastic, Hydroid needed some kind of glue and using an existing status effect to be that glue is going to be great for build-craft. But Plunder's existence is solely to be a point of synergy. It doesn't create gameplay outside of the other abilities you need to cast to make it work. And like... that's not a bad thing in a vacuum, synergy abilities make for some for the most interesting gameplay loops, again the problem is that it is replacing an ability with unique gameplay.
Nobody (who is sane) is asking for the Undertow to stay as is. It was busted in design, code, and kit. But that doesn't mean the only path forward was to throw it in the trash. While I'm looking forward to playing a version of Hydroid that is useful, I struggle to see what I could get attached to. Spamming CC abilities, armor stripping, and being tanky is good but I don't play Warframe just to play good things. I play Warframe to play fun and weird things.
16 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:Steel path isn’t the place to go for build and gameplay variety anyways since it’s designed for whatever min-maxed builds we can make
This is unrelated to the main topic, but I couldn't disagree more. More playstyles are viable in SP than normal path because you don't have comically busted power differentials. I can bring more weapons into SP and feel like I am contributing to the mission than I can to a normal mission. The requirement is that you make an actual build. "Build diversity" isn't "every build works." For making a build to be satisfying there needs to be a power curve, you should feel rewarded for combining things together. If everything works then why try? What's the reward in finding new combinations?
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It is a nerf (of requiring one mod slot) to those that think content greater than level 300 is "intended" and refuse to acknowledge that DE has never (and should never) balanced around such content.
It is a pretty significant buff for everyone else.
Previously my stance was that shields should have value when active, not just when broken, but this solution is definitely a step forward. If there are any more changes (which I honestly doubt) I'd like to see shield regeneration get another look to potentially be more interactive.
I also think there is a missed opportunity to turn shield-gate builds into a proper feature (not just a token corrupted mod). I'm not personally a fan of using shield-gate builds, but I absolutely love how they created unique builds and playstyles. Building around this concept and turning it into more of a parry-like system would've been nice.
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As someone who personally enjoys Circuit, I sometimes wonder if it was a mistake simply because people would inevitably use an intentionally unbalanced game mode as a reference for balance.
Circuit in any and all forms is completely irrelevant to any and all balance discussions (that aren't about Circuit specifically).
And on topic, this is why I think SP is the most balanced content in the game. More things are viable because instant nuking is (mostly) gone. More weapons are viable because status priming has a reasonable ttk next to simple 'meta' weapons. High DPS options like Mesa or Saryn are slowed not to the extent of being unsatisfying, but just enough that other gameplay styles have room to breathe next to them. Crowd Control even has a bit more usefulness as most things take a second to die. And while survivability can be a bit of an issue, most forms of defense are viable until you get up above level 200 (anything higher than that is irrelevant as there is no content designed around it).
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I'm dropping this. This discussion isn't going anywhere but I'll finish off with some very quick (as quick as I can at least) final words.
6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:They are all true though. What is disingenuous with it?
1. Slide attacks in the air are an animation bug, just a longstanding one. Likely easier to leave it than patch it out if it doesnt impact gameplay on a larger scale.
2. Calling it a "series of specific parkour movements" is true. Because well that is what it is since it isnt part of the described interaction for the arcane. You need the weapon equipped, you need to slide, you need to aim, you need to heavy attack. That is a series of specific parkour actions following eachother for a specific result. As good an explaination as any.
And the reason they give any explaination at all is because there are certain people that clearly think a bug is a feature, even when it obviously isnt. They could have simply said Fixed unintended interaction between contagion and certain air attacks. However that would have like resulted in threads flooding the forums with claims regarding intended contagion being nerfed even though it wasnt touched.
1. Slide attacks in the air... one of the few movement mechanics that has been part of the game since closed beta... is a bug? The "it's been in the game for years therefore not a bug" argument is pretty weak in general, but this is as old as Warframe, I think it gets a bit more validity.
2. Unironically saying "technically correct, the best kind of correct" is an interesting take. You would think in the explanation as to why you are changing a thing that you would, ya know, explain it. There were more words spent not explaining the "series of specific parkour movements" than it would have taken to just say "heavy slide attack in the air." And all of those other "specific movements" are the requirements needed to make Contagion work in the first place. Normally when someone takes the long, non-specific way around a topic it is because they are either trying to hide something or are ignorant. Sure, they were technically correct, but it is also a red flag.
And I don't know what that last part is even about. As I've said a few times, I agree with the reasoning "we never intended for Contagion to scale with heavy attacks". And while they did get to that point at the very end of a bunch of nonsense, I appreciate that it was there, I wish that they kept it at that. Saying that using heavy slide attacks to scale contagion is a bug is perfectly reasonable, even if it does make some amount of gameplay sense. This thread would still exist if they kept it at the simple explanation, but I wouldn't be here going my two cents because DE would've provided a fair and understandable rational.
Now I'm left wondering if the other weapons that make use of this (Ceramic Dagger and Tenet Grigori) are exploiting a bug, by giving an explanation DE added more uncertainty instead of clarifying.
1 hour ago, -Krism- said:Nah, this is more like a two 13yo fighting over who the strongest super hero is & insulting each other because they just don't agree
Same thing here, they don't even want to consider our PoV, & therefor, we are "bootlickers/white knights"
This is the response I expect from someone who is willing to see from another's PoV.
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38 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:
I dont really see how people can be upset by a bug fix and also call it a nerf.
If they simply said "it was never supposed to work with heavy attacks" then I wouldn't have an issue. But that's not the bug that they are claiming exists, they claim that heavy slide attacks in the air are a "movement animation bug." Also calling it a "series of specific parkour movements" instead of a heavy slide attack is... I dunno, it feels like either the person who patched this didn't know those are a thing or the person who wrote the notes wanted to obfuscate what was going on.
I know this is a mountain out of molehill, but this kind of disingenuous explanation rubs me the wrong way.
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1 hour ago, -Krism- said:
I wasn't quoting you tho
Apologies, I assumed "this statement" was referring to my reply as my reply is what Joylesstuna had quoted.
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15 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:
It doesn’t strike me that a mid-air slide attack is particularly intentional even if it can look cool and open some options for approach. We’ve already got the slide effect in mid-air; it’s a jump kick. And the normal attack is either the slam or a strike depending on angle of view, but the heavy just does a slam, which seems to indicate that a heavy attack isn’t necessarily a mid-air thing.
I haven’t got a Grigori, but from what I understand it seems that its ability to throw its projectile in mid-air is a follow on effect from something that seems a little odd in the first place
Mid-air slide attacks are that "coptering" thing you've probably heard about. While they no longer add momentum as they did pre-Bullet Jump, they have been part of the game since the beginning. I still use them in movement a bit as they do have some influences on momentum (normally at the very end of a movement chain to kill momentum) and can sometimes be more useful as an aerial melee attack than the basic attacks. They aren't nearly as common or useful as they have been in the past (slide attacks in general are at an all-time low), but they are very much an intentional part of the melee/movement sandbox.
Tenet Grigori's mechanic isn't in-air specifically, it is a mechanic tied into heavy slide attacks. The description of Grigori is "Tenet Grigori is a unique Tenet Scythe whose Heavy Slide Attacks launch a short-ranged energy disk. The second attack in a Heavy Attack Combo will also launch an energy disk." As it stands you can launch these launch these projectiles in the air (by doing a heavy slide in the air), but in the patch notes DE said that maneuver was an animation bug.
My only point (in this thread) has been that the classification of heavy slide attacks in the air as a bug was unfair. Given the mechanics in game, it is intuitive to think we could do it, the assertion that heavy attacks in the air must always trigger a ground slam is (in my opinion) a greater stretch than a natural combination of existing mechanics.
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5 hours ago, Corvid said:
Those words were immediately followed by "and went beyond the original design for the Arcane.", which, given that the animation bug in question was left untouched, is likely the main reason behind the fix.
If you're going to accuse others of being disingenuous, the least you can do is not leave out important information.
"and," implying that the first part was part of the decision.
If I see a bad argument I'm going to point it out. The whole comment (except for the last 9 words) feels off. Either misrepresenting a heavy slide attack in the air (they never actually say what the "series of specific parkour movements" is), saying that you have to do a thing to do a thing (yes, you must do a heavy attack in the air to do a heavy attack in the air), or the aforementioned "movement animation bug." My issue isn't with the change, I do think it is justified, but I don't like it when it feels as though someone doesn't respect me enough to say it straight. That isn't the clear communication we should expect.
I just really, really hate it when someone uses bad arguments regardless of the conclusion. Pick apart the components, and if everything checks out then the conclusion is fair. If the components are bad then figure out what went wrong. It just reinforces those pathways and potentially leads to more BS in the future when S#&$ty logic gets ignored because the correct end point was reached. It also leads to inconsistencies, if heavy slide attacks in the air are a bug then why can we still do them? Is Tenet Grigori being able to do this maneuver unintended? I now have more questions, not less.
I'm still salty over when DE said Xoris was nerfed "because it was more powerful" when that wasn't at all the case. It was more convenient, and in that case as well I agreed with the intention to nerf (as it did reduce build variety), but if that was their reason then why the fudge to Riven stat sticks still exist.
I'm aware that at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I'm just frustrated.
Edit:
2 hours ago, -Krism- said:Wow, you just completely ignored one of the comments correcting this statement
Can you just stop being dishonest? It was fixed, & they're not gonna revert it, so instead of wasting your time on the forums, just #*!%ing accept it & move on with your life, I'm sure you have better stuff to do than this
Correcting it? What was technically wrong about what I said? I get the criticism given, it does come off as disingenuous for me to not bring up the last nine words if my point was about DE's conclusion, but that was never my point. I don't like it when someone misrepresents something to bolster their conclusion. It doesn't matter if their conclusion is otherwise justified, it is a bad habit to get into and is disrespectful to the people you are communicating with.
I don't need/want to see an apology, walk-back, or whatever. I just want to see DE not do this (misrepresenting the rationality behind a change) again, ergo my feedback.
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2 hours ago, (XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom said:
You can still do heavy slide attacks midair. That wasn't removed. All that was removed is Exodia Contagion inheriting the heavy attack damage multiplier. That's it. Feel free to still use your midair heavies.
The reasoning they provided for this change was that slide heavy attacks in the air are apparently a "movement animation bug."
If they just wanted to nerf the interaction, they could've have left it at that. Instead they said that it was because it was a bug. Therefore when critiquing their change I am going to point out the flaws with the rational they provided. While I'm not actually that much against a nerf, Contagion has been a problem-maker for DE since it came out (in that it often ignores/breaks new content), I am not a fan of disingenuous explanations.
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Some of this discussion is wild.
- Slide attacks in the air have been a thing since forever. In some ways it is the bedrock that the game's movement system was built off of.
- Heavy slide attacks are a mechanic that has been acknowledged by DE through Tenet Grigori using them for its special mechanic (heavy slide attack throws the projectile, it's even in the description).
Heavy slide attacks are a lesser known mechanic, I didn't know they were a thing before Grigori came out, but given what is available in game the combination of these two things makes sense.
I don't know why so many are making this out to be a mysterious "tech" or an exploit. It is just a heavy slide attack while in the air, it does require some finger gymnastics but it's existence is intuitive. DE not explaining how this "animation bug" was done in the patch notes is a bit odd as the components to it are core mechanics.
For those that think this is a terrible exploit, what is the reasoning behind that? Why wouldn't you expect a heavy slide attack to work in the air?
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yes
I know this comment doesn't add much, but there isn't much else to add.
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29 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
Allow me to attempt it from your perspective here.
Limits are not adversarial.
It is a perspective thing, not an implantation thing. The goal you have when designing a thing matters. Getting caught up in "we have to stop X" is what gives us annoying mechanics, I get that it is corny but it is important that fun is always the goal. But I'd rather not get sucked into semantics BS though so let's just move on from that.
You still haven't commented on the approach I proposed to get players to be more engaged. Rather than limit the tools, make it impossible to pick a single "correct" tool through more complex mission types.
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1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
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Given the examples you gave on ways to add engaging/difficult content, it seems to me like you are taking an adversarial approach to the player when trying to make engaging content. The framing you use to express ideas is in how they can stop players from doing a thing, not in how those things can encourage players to do something engaging. I get that it is semantics, "enemy makes a shield to block a direction" and "encourage the use of positioning to take out enemies" is effectively the same thing, but the frame of reference does matter as the goals are quite different despite the implementation likely being very similar.
That isn't to say the "positive" perspective is immune to the "they can just ignore it" problem. Yeah... its an issue, but I think working with that issue is not only possible but also grounds for far more unique content. If you want a game balanced around the relationship of the player and the enemy, there are other games that do that better. Warframe has an incredibly diverse toolbox that if properly utilized could be used to encourage different combat strategies far deeper than a good build and good aim.
Which brings me back to my concept for added engagement/difficulty, making it impossible to use a single solution for a mission. Any objective has an answer, we have defense, CC, and DPS locked down. But nothing does it all, even when there is overlap there is nuance between approaches different frames have that makes the more/less suited to a mission type. More complex objectives would force players to use improper tools for the individual parts of a mission. At its most basic, if a mission starts with an exterminate and ends in a defense. You can take a DPS to speed through the exterminate at the cost of a painful defense, vice versa, or go for a more balanced loadout choice. I'm sure you can come up with an answer that trivializes this example, but I hope you can at least get my point.
This isn't to say I don't haven opinions on damage. But honestly... what we have is workable. I'm down for a Damage 3.0 as much (probably more) as the next person, but the necessity of one (with the goal of a more engaging game) is overblown. Even status, my personal nemesis, is workable. I hate it... I hate the way status works so much... but that doesn't mean good, meaningful, engaging content can't be made if the right approach is taken.
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42 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:
How do you prevent us from being so powerful in any given boss fight? In any given Raid?
What's worse is that...
And this is why I said the goal should be to just make more engaging content. I don't think the goal of any (good) dev is to make a "difficult" game, it is to make an engaging game. Some devs use difficulty as a way to engage players, it is the difficulty of Souls games that makes players engage with all of the game's systems and (hopefully) have fun. Difficulty is just a means, it isn't an end. The oversimplification of the role of difficulty in games is why we get the comically incongruous takes of "bullet sponge bad" and "make enemy number go up." There are other ways to get players to engage with a game, don't hyper-fixate on power and difficulty. What are the things that make Warframe unique and what content could you design that asks players to engage with those systems most.
And again, I think base SP sets a extremely balanced bar for the difficulty of the core horde-shooter combat. Obviously it isn't "difficult," but missions, especially ones that people look to for the most engaging content, should be far more than the difficulty of killing a horde of enemies. Some weapon balance is still a bit wonky in SP, but base SP is where the most Warframes are balanced between each other. And honestly even that wonky weapon balance isn't that bad. Yeah, Incarnon Torid does some questionable things, but the amount of viable weapons when built around in this game of acquiring tools to build around is staggering.
I have fun with Jackal. Part of that is due to its placement in the Circuit where I can't pick the tool that trivializes the fight, but that brings me back to my original point of making more engaging content by making it more difficult to find a single tool to trivialize a mission. One of my oldest concepts (that is forever trapped in my wip folder) is a Sortie-like mission where you go from phase to phase without going back to your arsenal, forcing you to prepare unoptimized setups for the individual missions in order to fully complete the gambit. It still wouldn't be "difficult" by some standards, but I think (hope) it would be a more engaging piece of content.
What I find frustrating is the fixation on difficulty has led to what feels like a self-fulfilling prophecy where people will never be satisfied if the content doesn't fit their vision of "difficult". Rather than engage with new content on its terms in good faith, because it isn't difficult it is bad. Back to Circuit Jackal, so often I see people bring up wanting movement to be more important in "difficult" content. You know what jackal heavily encourages? Movement, it is by far the best implementation of requiring player movement as it feels natural within the fight. But I don't see any of that, I don't see people acknowledging that DE made some good use of something people have begged for, all I see is "I can cheese it, therefore bad" (or "too hard plz nerf").
I could keep gushing about Circuit Jackal. The more I think on it, the more I am starting to think it is my favorite boss fight in the game and maybe even a good boss fight in general (which is big for a Warframe boss). And while I get that "favorite" is just an opinion, the complete lack of acknowledgement for what Jackal objectively does makes me think people quite literally don't see it. They just see a health bar they can kill, they are so caught up in meta-commentary of "difficult" that the gameplay in front of them is pointless, because Circuit jackal doesn't represent what they want it to represent it isn't good.
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Adding difficulty through making the horde harder to kill in this horde shooter isn't the way to go. In my opinion Steel Path hits a nearly perfect balance between requiring a real build and still allowing there to be a satisfying power fantasy. Furthermore, making mob enemies more difficult to kill through other means (like better AI) would be more annoying than difficult, enemies being more evasive would only make AoE weapons even more meta. Lancer #35492 shouldn't be a threat to a Warframe.
The way to add difficulty is through mission mechanics, target prioritization, and build-craft. And even then I don't think "difficult" should be the goal as much as "engaging" should be. Circuit Jackal for example isn't "difficult", but by requiring you to engage with its mechanics it has been considered difficult enough that there have been cries to nerf. Another avenue DE could push for is missions that are complicated enough that there isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. Imagine if Sorties didn't allow you to change your loadout between missions, this would require you to plan out your loadout and potentially use sub-par gear for a given mission.
I'm sure its been said somewhere here already, but Railjack has a lot of potential to be a groundwork for "difficult" content. Too much emphasis gets put on the space combat, the true potential of Railjack is weaving a variety of objective types seamlessly into a single mission. Railjack "just" being a taxi is huge as it allows or immersive transitions between objectives.
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You need to do 4 normal Orowyrm fights to get the Pathos Clams you need for Incarnon adapters per week. At about 20 min for a lone story run, that is an hour of your time a week.
In order to actually get those adapters though, that is 3-5 hours of SP Circuit.
An extra hour on top of the SP circuit farm can certainly feel rough, but that time should be taken into context. I wish the time it takes to grind out circuit was a bit more discussed, as DE continues to add weekly content the "required" time to keep up with the game is inflating. You could get Kahl and Archon done in about an hour, that felt like a sweet spot weekly content, now we are at a minimum of 5 hours a week of just weekly "keep up" content. This isn't counting any other Warframe things you want to do.
Five hours (more like six) isn't that bad, but if DE keeps up this trend of weekly content then I'm worried that it will become too tedious to keep up with the game. Warframe thrives as something that you don't have to dedicate your life to, it has generally respected your want to not play it all the time, while DE hasn't crossed the bar yet I can feel it coming.
4 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:If you're not lying I'm actually impressed. 20 minutes average despite the RNG sounds a bit incredible though.
It is definitely possible, but it does require a bit of luck on the Undercroft sections. Also, major hint for the SP Duviri sections, USE YOUR WARFRAME. You can generally build up Transference in one 'wave' of the combat missions, then you can delete one to two waves with even the worst weapons. I don't think I have seen anyone use their Warframe in Duviri, which is wild given how many people claim to hate not playing Warframe in Warframe.
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On 2/25/2023 at 9:03 PM, lukinu_u said:
In short, Eidolons just had a good game design that made the bug a fun alternative instead of a necessity to skip the boring fight.
I know this isn't the main point of this topic, but I would much rather have no "good game design" than have that "good" be tied to praying to the RNG gods while you pull on a slot machine lever. Rivens as an archetypal concept I am 100% down for, I love the potential Rivens have for the game, but as they stand their effect on the game is far more toxic than beneficial and I will encourage any change that removes unique gameplay from them. #FudgeRivens
More on topic, Tiltskillet's remark about players optimizing the fun out of a game make this discussion a lot more complicated than people having fun goofy toys in good faith. On some level I like broken things, Warframe is as much a game of strategy where you pick the right tool for a job as it is an action game, cheese its part of its identity and it shouldn't be completely stricken from it. However, there do need to be limits. These limits are especially important when the tools are not broadly available. Again, Rivens bad.
I've said a lot of words on Damage Attenuation, but I won't go there (yet). While I do see value in "bullet sponge" bosses I think there is a good reason that people find Archon's annoying (when they fight them "properly").
It isn't fun to shoot something the size of a Warframe for 10 minutes.
This is a power fantasy horde shooter, we massacre thousands of humanoid enemies in a single mission, it just feels wrong to lay so much into something so small no matter what lore BS you have to justify it. Eidolons, Orbs, or Orphix makes sense to take a couple extra shots. The entire idea of Archons being damage sponges is inherently flawed because they aren't a fun enemy to shoot at.
I know it won't happen because DE has set their mind to wanting Archons to be bullet sponges, but I do think they should really just revert them to mechanic fights with invulnerability gates. Boreal's moveset is already there, just give it like 5 gates and have hitting one trigger one of its moves. I could see Amar doing something interesting with interrupting/blocking his attacks to make him vulnerable. Nira's a bit harder, but I think there are some "quick fix" things that could be done to her kit that would allow her to fit with a health-gate style fight.
There is a time and place for Damage Attenuation, I think Archons fundamentally aren't it. It will never be fun to shoot them for an extended period of time.
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I've been tinkering with reworking the Residual/Theorem Arcanes for awhile myself. They have a ton of potential, but they miss the mark in a truly spectacular degree.
The TL;DR for my thoughts before I read this post are as follows...
- Having to stack the buffs doesn't fit the pace of Warframe, they should be one-and-done. If Residuals need a range nerf to compensate I think it would still be for the best.
- Make sure every arcane that benefits from a Residual field has a direct tie to the element of the Residual.
- Add a new set of weapon arcanes that interact with Residuals. Have the bonus damage be elemental damage to tie into the Residual theme.
- Make the existing residuals good :)
Feedback to the OP
- I like embracing status effects with the Residuals, but I don't think their damage should be enhanced. 200 damage wouldn't do anything at higher levels but it would make them light AoE clear at lower levels, even though low levels 'don't matter' I don't think they should be doing that even there.
- I don't like stacking of the Theorems at all. I don't like stacking in general, but clearly DE disagrees, so honestly just fixing stacking to not be dumb is probably the more reasonable ask.
- Theorem Contagion is an awesome concept that has a terrible implementation. Debuffing enemies to an element has a ton of potential for weird build-craft but application method is horrid. I don't think elemental combos should work as the whole thing with Residuals is their single-element nature. If you are using these arcanes you are centering your whole build around them, I think it is more interesting to have you build your weapons around them as well. The 30m AoE you propose isn't bad, but it is on the boring side imo. I like the orby thing thematically, but an effect like a damage debuff does need some form of mass application as you suggest. Maybe the orb could bounce?
- As for Demulcent, there is a bit of precedent for added elemental damage to abilities with Nourish on Grendel. I don't know if this mechanic could be easily transferred to other frames, but adding elemental damage to abilities could be really interesting (and possibly broken).
- Infection is a scary Arcane. DE doesn't like turrets, they don't like AFK strategies, an Arcane that only gets value from "turrets" killing things might not be the best design space. While you do need to kill things with your weapons every so often to keep this active, it still feels like it is riding a line.
13 hours ago, (PSN)jaggerwanderer said:The Demios Arcane are fine. How they trigger is fine. What they offer is also fine. How they function mechanically to the warframe gameplay is where the issue lies. If only the field would be an aura center on the player. Then allow team mates to benefit from it.
Huh?
The Residuals are whatever. They aren't supposed to be great on their own, they are intended to just be a set up for Theorems so they get a pass.
But the Theorems though... none of them I would consider to be in a good place. One of them gives a boost to companion damage, and while I know there are some gimmicks for this I don't think any mechanic that leads to AFK strategies is a good idea. One of them has a damage debuff that affects one enemy every two seconds. And the third "good" one gives a insignificant damage boost and has to compete with Warframe arcanes.
I kind of want DE to do a "Deimos Arcana 2.0" as a full rework as that content, both the missions and rewards, were skipped over by most of the community. Most players I've run into don't even know about the Arcana bounties. Arcana bounties are some of the best "open world" content in the game in my opinion, unfortunately the way you start/matchmake into them left them dead on arrival. DE could probably market a Deimos Arcana refresh as brand new content and the majority of players wouldn't notice.
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4 hours ago, hippokrene said:
I suspect that a seaonal hardcore star chart clear would exclude most players.
Here's the thing though, everything shouldn't be for everyone. Different people like different things, if you try to please everyone you will never fully satisfy anyone.
I actually like the idea of adding seasons to The Steel Path, maybe integrate it with Nightwave.
A lot of people are complaining that the hard mode doesn't have any replayability, but does it really need it? Maybe The Steel Path can excel as a one-and-done piece of content, something you experience every few months but not every day.
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So... give Banshee Radial Blind. I'd rather not add another ability I have to mash for every group of enemies, Sonar is plenty.
Why not keep it simple, just allow for Silence to be recast.
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The first step in understanding DE's intentions is understanding that their intentions do not always transfer to implementation intact.
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23 hours ago, Skaleek said:
Indeed. I would like to be able to change out my grip, at the very least, since this whole debacle is on DE's inability to crunch some very basic numbers. I really dont want to rebuild an almost identical kitgun for the investment of a catalyst, weapon exilus adapter, and 6~8 forma.
Well written post, good read, thanks for the number crunching as well. +1
What really boggles my mind is that, despite me being rather critical in this post, it is very clear to me that there is a method to Kitgun balance. The balance guy must use formulas to determine final values and for the most part a lot of values do hit a similar target. This makes the Tombfinger all the more confusing because it is just... dumb. Kitguns were balanced with a scalpel, the 28.0.5 Tombfinger changes was basically chucking a boulder and watching where it landed.
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I'd simplify it another step and just have three total tiers.
- Unrefined: Best chance at common
- 50 Traces: Best chance at uncommon
- 100 Traces: Best chance at rare
Keep it simple, having the multiple tiers of refinement is only useful if each tier has a purpose. Bloat just makes things confusing.
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2 minutes ago, Dragazer said:
Prime has 8 pellets and base has 5
True, but when you count in Sancti's better reload speed Sancti wins out in status per second.
Mod feature request - *Please* make Equilibrium, Health Conversion, etc. work like Arcane Blessing and Synth Fiber
in General
Posted · Edited by DrBorris
/enable copium
Pablo isn't talking about the specific mods Health Conversion and Energy Conversion, but rather talking about the mechanic of converting health/energy. Therefore as Equilibrium is a thing that converts health/energy, it will be affected.
/disable copium