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About LeMoog

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  1. Whilst I disagree with the need for any external "trading" site where you cannot actually trade I will suggest that those that use it to influence the real market are going to be dead set against change. If DE implemented a steam type trade system where offline players could still be traded with then fair enough but since there is a lot of resistance to change from I suggest those that use the external sites to influence sellers then any external site is going to be yet one more biased/gamed opinion to the detriment of WF players. I personally wanted tracking of all traded items in game so I could see if "corrupted profiles" were down to hacking but again there has been a lot of resistance. There is a lot that could be done to improve how trade in WF works but external sites are not on the list, they benefit only the site owner and the advertising agencies that use them. I can understand you wanting access to DE's data for resale but I personally would prefer DE to be benefitting from external advertisers rather than you
  2. It is however the feeling of being cheated that makes for bad feeling and hence toxicity, whilst you say it is not a real thing I say I have seen it daily
  3. The bottom 3/4 of your post is OFC correct however feeling cheated is a natural response to being obviously duped or excluded from the best position for reasons beyond your control. You can with experience, see everything in this game as being freely availible given enough time but that will not be the case for newer people. As to it being a personal problem then only if you surrounded by people without empathy but regardless it is indeed a real and natural response to abuse of trust, implied or otherwise
  4. Yes, the trade system allows trades and if that is the only thing that matters then fine but after all these years then I suggest it might be time to improve it, it doesn't have to be the solution I propose but DE have already changed the system to reduce annoying spam and to help the CAPS haters why not for equality. As to nudging people into "acceptable" behaviour there is in WF just as much as there is in every other game, most people want to play without toxic players being able to ruin the pleasure of involvement for the majority. If I find that I cannot trade unless it is to a group that have cooped trade then personally I find that annoying, others may love it but given human nature most people do not like to think they have been cheated. As to instant gratification then yes, it is the drive to obtain items that makes them buy plat with real money rather than obtaining it themselves via play but since one point that I was trying to deal with was the abuse of newer players those who find obtaining parts themselves harder, have few of the items anyway and do not know how much an item should be sold for then it is fair to say resellers have more impact on newer players that old. Where the older player is mainly going to be impacted is when they attempt to sell and find that the price is effectively fixed so that resellers can make a profit when they may not actually have that item themselves. Something as simple as extending the existing "[item]" system to sales so if you do not have it then you cannot post a selling offer in trade it would get rid of a lot of spam and effect zero legitimate sellers, you could also extend this to the buyers such that only players who have less than the amount required to craft everything with one resource can post they want to buy more. If players want to make more than one of an item for different builds then surely that are going to be advanced enough to obtain the parts themselves. Trade is far from perfect and after all this time perhaps it would be worth DE's investment in cleaning it up, I for one didn't care about ALL CAPS trade posts, I saw it as a form of insanity that uppercase was infuriating, to me it is just text. When it got changed it impacted me negatively since I use capslock for crouch and my case changes all the time in game so why not a change for the benefit of normal people this time
  5. mac addresses can be changeable in windows or by reflashing the nic but I understand what you mean i.e. using machine identifiable data. I have never tried but I would presume that warframe would run in a VM sufficient for chat and if people are determined to cheat any system then they will, since the OS and virtual hardware are encapsulated then mac address within VM is irrelevant. DE will have invested time and resources in tying some of them down but the fact is wintel in inherently insecure and not every vulnerability can have a cure/mitigation thus you have to just live with them.
  6. if they were not using VPN to mask their alts then they wouldn't be able to trade between accounts either?
  7. You say you do not care if someone profits off your back and if true then fair enough, perhaps your items sell for such small amounts that the profit from someone reselling on in equally insignificant and so the profit is equal to your benefit of having the plat earlier? One point I raised was that since the trade is swamped with resellers then selling a item you personally earned is actually harder now that it was before the epidemic, so would also not mind if the item you just sold was resold to your friend for 500p more than you received?
  8. fair enough come up with a better one, without knowing where your feel I am in error then it is hard for me to convince you that your are wrong
  9. So in your definition of the broker they do not trade with either party? how then can they facilitate trade when either of the primaries are offline
  10. that will remove reselling, allow friends to collect items for a friend but creates a potential issue where all the supply is trapped, DE could increase supply but it would require more monitoring than the solution I offered. I am not saying it doesn't fit better than my own, mine also requires increased monitoring
  11. There is no open player-based community and as to why the trade is like it is rather than say like steam's then I would guess that it was down to IP or other priorities at the time and no real focus since due to those profiting off the existing system poo-pooing any forum threads that suggest a change. The solution I offered was aimed at addressing two issues which I met, alt-accounts and reselling. After taking another look at the existing trade thread and hearing from others in the forum and in chat I came to the conclusion that warframe trading had been co-opted and that everyone else's price was limited by the same and that finally enough players felt the same way. If you are happy with things as they are and you do not care about the impact it is having then fair enough but if you do then by all means come up with a better solution, I personally would like to see a steam like trade system where offline item holders could sell in their sleep as but this has repeatedly been suggested and poo-pooed by those that feel nothing for those that they profit off. There is a lot of talk about community but the type of community where grifters are unchecked is bled to death and the toxic nature of the community always seeks to escape into other areas as the saying goes "if you lie down with dogs then you are going to get fleas" and no one who has played WF for period cannot have helped but meet toxic players in every interface of the game. If you enjoy living in the mire then fine, knock yourself out but for my part I would like to believe that the majority of players, including those that never use the forum, would like a breath of fresh air and that means removing the poison as you come across it. I have tried to do my part what are you doing to help?
  12. I am not married to any single method so long as the result is to remove brokers/resellers unfair influence upon the whole market, by fair I am referring to what any other single player can do. People talk about the importance of a freemarket but the reality is that the market is already biased simply because each single player has to compete with a group who have a shared agenda. A single player must sleep occasionally and he can only post once per time limit in the trade thread. A group can post at least as many times as their are members. Thus the market is not currently free and if a free market really means anything to you have to agree that this needs to change
  13. Supply is finite i.e there is only so many of each tradable item currently in circulation, more brokers do not increase supply and if they are full time brokers (24/7 via agents or bots) then actually playing the game to obtain the parts for themselves takes up far less of their time than if they were not focusing on reselling i.e. less trading time for everyone else. Since it is unlikely and unwanted for brokers to hold the complete supply (monopoly) then there needs to be a balance, this currently being in the form of people unwilling to stock brokers and those aware that the demand is due to increase (DE announcements). It has been said that these brokers are aware of what all tenno need, which I take to mean they are monitoring all the trade threads in each region through something along the lines of webget. With all these brokers I would suggest that there is a increased cost to DE to maintaining the extra (number of regions * the number of monitoring brokers on each chat server). What we are talking about is an unfair advantage compared with a occasional trader. If we were all to follow suit and each monitor every trade thread then the chat servers would likely need to be upgraded given how often they fall over as things stand, perhaps the reason they currently fall over is because DE didn't anticipate the extra load that brokers put on the infrastructure to exist. Brokers need for max profit that everyone else who has the required item to sell to them for X, this being the max market price (at time of resale) minus their commision, they may take less than maximum commision for quicker sales but they will OFC want to take to maximum that the market will take. Now lets look at the market, I will divide it into 3 groups, those who keep up with DE announcements( A) , those that do not care but watch a single market alone for their pricing(B) and those that have not a clue(C), this is a simple model and I am sure it doesn't include everyone playing. All of these groups will sell at whatever they think people will buy at with reductions based upon their own need to trade. So firstly pricing for a period where item is not currently in demand, group A will be selling off excess stock and waiting for the next opportunity to cash in, groups B and C will be watching the market between games to see if there is anything that they have that they can sell for enough to be worth bothering with or selling what they can because they need plat themselves. The prices here are the lowest for everyone since no one is targeting anything and the price is down to seller's needs. Next lets look at the price of an item that is going to be vaulted or item's supply is generally low, group A is buying at X , they are flooding the trade thread with offers to buy they may even have posted a bogus low price on one of the external pricing sites with an alt that they leave logged out so the item doesn't get sold. Group A might then use this to try to persuade group C and some of group B to part with their stock at a price lower than they might have got if they waited.Group A will continue to buy as the supply in trade from B and C dwindles until supply dries up or price is higher than max X at which point the price hovers around X with A buying when they can. Price here is <X and the trade threads are flooded by the brokers their agents and more than likely the same monitoring tool anyone not a broker is going to have much less chance of being noticed than the previous mode and since they are just one person then without agents or monitor they are not going to be operating 24/7 so in effect group A has taken virtual control of trade chat with a cost born by DE and groups B&C missed sales. Whilst the price might be lower than the broker's expected selling price they as a group have more exposure so anyone attempting to sell at greater than X will be ignored or missed. Lastly item has been vaulted, group A will start selling once price is acceptable, since market is again flooded by brokers B might make as sale occasionally if below brokers expected or if a member of B or C is getting in on the action but for most part brokers remain in control of the price, it is possibel that another bogus price is posted externally to improve their bargaining position. So in the above modes brokers effectively control the market in 2 out of 3 states, if everyone used their tools then the chances are the trade thread woulds fall over and require further investment by DE. As to the external "trade websites" they are a misnomer unless trade can only occur off the DE servers i.e. the external site is holds the item and sells it ingame via a bot, I have suggest just one way that they can be gamed in order to unfairly influence the trading price of warframe items. So in summary I disagree with the premise that broker benefit anyone but themselves, they create a hidden cost to DE and every PC from non-DE trade site would be attempted fraud in the real world. They add nothing to the free supply that determines pricing and the whole of trade is heavily influenced by the brokers who via their own bots or agents control the market and not to the benefit of either buyers or sellers unless they too are brokers. no normal player can compete with brokers in terms of market presence since they have to sleep. Some say that they are a benefit because not all players are online enough to trade fairly without brokers but I say the cost to everyone else including DE far outweighs any benefit these few players gain. I have offered one way to deal with this problem but there are OFC many others, ideally DE would make a steam like market that allows for trading when item holders are offline with a nice chart showing the range of prices transparent to everyone but if we can't have that then a compromise is necessary since anyone without the broker's resources has much less chance of trading at all let alone fairly. Here is a few pointers to the non-brokers To get the best selling price for an item then you need to keep up with the game news and you need to know how to sell, be polite but firm and remember that without your item the brokers would go broke Thus there is no free market in warframe and the brokers are to blame. monitoring bots are not players if they are in use then it would be up to DE to remove them and their creators but since you the reader now know they exist then you can see for yourself just how much of the trade thread is full of their spam and decide if they are deserving of your trade. Remember there is no such thing as thrash items as no one would want them, anyone going to the trouble of posting their want clearly has either a use for it and or knows something you may not, why not wait and see what happens or if you sell then make it small amounts as the people who want to profit off you do not want to run out of trades If you are told an external PC sites have an item for less than you are selling for then why is the buyer attempting to buy from you, simply because that item either doesn't exist or cannot actually be purchased.
  14. I have no problems with players earning plat from selling what they have earned but to taking advantage of other players lack of knowledge is toxic and I would suggest spills over into other areas of the game. I do have a problem when they are allowed to buy up all of an item in demand and then raise the price even though I am more likely to get my own item, I also have a problem with the trade thread being flooded by them and their agents so honest traders are rolled off the screen. I have yet to hear of anything they do that is a actually a benefit to anyone but themselves, I do hear a lot of the BS mystique about how they are smart and sophisticated and an asset but the fact remains that without people to cheat they would be out of business and in reality cheating people doesn't actually require much brain as most people are trusting until they get burned. I would be quite happy if as you suggest the middlemen had their own thread (call it B ark) and the could live off each other but OFC that will never happen as they rely upon duping others to obtain what they hope to sell. as to working out if I ever bought from a reseller, I would not, a deal once made is honoured again not something I have seen from every player and I do not need to guess why. If you do not like the method I propose then come up with another that removes the toxic element from the game and makes trading a lasting pleasure for everyone and I will support it. Get rid of trade being screw them before they screw you and I will be happy along with everyone else who doesn't have to wade through the mire to use trade.
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