darklord122

You point out free capacity slots, But we are not allowed to use them how we wish. We are not allowed to bring specific warframe's any player has accessible to as that would ruin the experience and skew build results, Even without a strong build, Revenant would still be more or less invincible. Sounds fair for anyone wanting to try and good survivable frame, even new players. We believe you in you saying that you are not sidelining other players. However building for specific levels in an infinitely level growing mode is you only sidelining yourself. Lets say you build to get to lets say level 80. Well what if they want to go above a hundred? What will you do? Stay and drag them down? Or leave and let 3 players hold something 4 players should? In both cases your view of consideration would be out the window. Prediction based builds do not work in this game and again everyone is allowed to build and play as they wish and that includes high level people. Now your consideration for me I could not care less for, As the label you've put on me do not coincide with the players who do in-fact level the entire map. But as ive said thats cant possibly be happening all the time for you, thats impossible, I however am still allowed to bring my high leveled build into any mission I want to. You seem very hung up on radiation for some reason. I could bring a full gas weapon and still outperform you to where you will complain. And its fairly easy to do even without rivens and maybe some low level arcanes. So even fairly new players or mid tier players can get stuck with your perceived notion of fairness. Now since you are also stuck on infested because the arbitration I ran happened to have them. Ill give you some more information. Your build struggles even harder against corpus and grineer, Grineer especially. Double that on top with overguard and its borderline impossible to kill them with your baseline build. If I where to add just baseline mods and no primed mods, No rivens and no arcanes, It still would struggle to kill enemies above 90-100. At that point its not tactical nor fun, As if it takes anyone a subsequently long time in any survival based or defense based mode then you would more than likely fail the objective. Its fine in exterminate, But at that point its just tedious, Working but very tedious for most of the playerbase. I think you perceive other players not insta-killing as being on your builds level, When I highly doubt that, In-fact I even think they might even be doing most of the job for you especially when hearing how you build your weapons. Feel free to prove me wrong and tell me that most players know to work with your build. Because newsflash. They do not. And never will unless you squad with people specifically for that. Or unless you are telling me that you scream in the in mission chat Hey my build only goes to level 90 and I need you all to be on the same level. Even then I doubt most players would listen to that argument. So how am I nor the rest of high leveled players being inconsiderate when our builds work for much longer than yours and cover way more ground. In-fact it allows us to keep going way more in missions and giving out more rewards. On more than just a few occasions ive carried people further than they can with their builds, just because I can. They receive more at the end and all is well. And I can guarantee im not the only high level person who does this mind you. Its not like strong builds = soulless. While I cant speak for those players who exist that ruin things, its certainly not all of them. Your effort in doing these specific builds ultimately is pointless when the rest of your squad is just another RNG number of builds and any of them could be outperforming any of the others builds. You don't know. And its unfair for them for you to assume they should be on your level. As its their choice and right to play the game as well and they do not have to play with your builds to enjoy themselves. But as we have seen when you see someone kill something just too fast then you proceed to feel alienated. You can't control what other people do. No matter what level they are. And ultimately that will always be a problem for you. No matter if a player is considerate towards you or not. As all it takes for you to go over the edge, Is a small variable of mods and arcanes. And all players have access to that.

The usage does matter when your argument hinges on usage stats and rates. And usage can be in every form whether from testing rivens, Mod builds, Arcanes and now even more-so Incarnons. Since the usage stats do not show when someone has acquired a weapon nor a variant outside of usage in specific mastery ranks the reason for usage can be basically anything. Even something as subsequently simple as owning the lato before the vandal version or any weapon and its concurrent variant. Especially since this game has a constant RNG to fight against even when you are in the higher levels of the game. Everyone does not acquire everything in a specific order so the usage can be because of genuinely a multitude of variables. Even in any of these usage case scenarios my point still stands that the majority still pick the better variant. Why? Who knows but logically any gamer will go for efficiency especially in a game like this where high strength and fast grinding is highly encouraged. Otherwise this problem of yours would literally not exist. Circumstantial use doesn't change my point. And yet again even with an uplift to both of these the vandal would still come out on top or any other weapon with subsequent variants that offer better stats and effects. The only way that would not happen however is if all variants did the exact same thing and that would see no points in variants being a thing in the first place. These points have been brought to you multiple times but you are so blinded by your agenda that you don't see that you either want everything to stand equal thus player choice is removed in the game of choices, Or you do not and the problems you speak of will always persist. And no, I'm not putting words in your mouth. These are the most logical conclusions to have unless you actually put forth more ideas for how anything you perceive will be achieved. No-one has said either that the underutilized weapons and their variants shouldn't be uplifted. But we can still point out the flaws in your arguments in that weapons would still always see under-utilization while simultaneously still supporting buffs for underutilized weapons. Your problem will still exist, The problem that no game has been able to fix in its entirety in terms of balance as Ive said a multitude of times already. So this will be my final note for this discussion. Now you can feel free to keep arguing but my point will still stand. And unless warframe becomes the first game ever to have a perfect balance across all of its weapons and never falter when new weapons, variants, rivens, mods, incarnons and arcanes are introduced, it will always stand.

Doesn't change my point by much, If anything it still reinforced my point that players choose the better variant for game-play. He tried to argue that people pick the worst option anyway when there are other factors in usage stats. So yes, They aren't picking the lato vandal just because they dont have it, But it still factors in on top of mastery grind.

Sure do wonder why the Lato, A starter weapon that all subsequent players have as an option to choose from when starting the game has such usages rates. Such a mystery. Couldn't be also because the lato vandal is only accessible in elite sanctuary onslaught either where the minimum requirement to even use the weapon is at mastery 7. No cant possibly be. The nukor having such usages stats when unlocked in basically all dojos except fresh ones and being fairly easy to craft. While the K-nukor relies on being master 5 with the war within completely cleared while simultaneously relying on rng roll's on liches. Wonder why the usage stats are the way they are. The latron having low requirements to build in terms of materials and can be used within the first 12 hours of the game, Sure do wonder why that is. Why the wraith being locked to master 7 and the prime being pure rng surely has nothing to do with usage stats. No of course not. You look at whats infront of you, Not the how nor why. Your view is skewed, You want equality yet somehow things should not be equal. I never said you wanted weapons to be the exact same but you keep putting out arguments where the results basically end up at that conclusion. No-one is putting words in your mouth. And you want something yet again unattainable that no game has achieved. So good luck with that. But you'll continue to ignore that point seeing as it doesn't benefit you. If players didn't pick the best options as a standard we wouldn't even be having this argument, The meta for weapons would basically not exist. Yet underutilized weapons and worse weapon variants are still on the lower end of the usage stats. I sure wonder how that is. And how nothing will change with your changes. The endgame will still exist that you oh so complain about and weapons usage stats will still go down. 👋 Good luck with your argument.

👏 Fine arguments gentlemen.

These sentences here don't work synonymously as you apparently don't care how the usage stats change, Yet you want weapons to have an equal standing while simultaneously wanting variants to be better than their normal counterpart thus impacting usage stats that you also bring up at every turn but somehow still do not care about, You cant have the same breath of bringing up usage stats for your argument and at the same time say you do not care about them. Its a hypocritical fallacy that ultimately will just end you up in the situation we are now. If you actually knew how most players play in any game especially for efficiency this is somewhat of what would probably happen: Lato and Lato vandal, Two different weapons similar stats. Lato is worse than Lato vandal with somewhat slight margin. Players picks Lato vandal for its better efficiency. Lato will have usage stats go down. Then if there is a secondary that is better than either = player swaps to that. Usage rates go down etc etc. How thats actually telling? Its happening right now. For example Nukor gets left behind by K-nukor, While damage wise Nukor wins by quite alot the K-nukor is picked over it due to the slight increase to its already high critical multiplier and status chance, and increased critical chance, magazine, and range, These increase's are not big but combined thats what makes it fundamentally better. But you just expect players to choose between two weapons where one fundamentally does better than the other and then picks the worse option? Its laughable how little you know how gamers work, This is specifically the reason a lot of weapons get thrown away. Sure there are a lot of weapons that outright are bad but some are barely that far apart and still get thrown away. You know what ill list some more. Latron prime gets chosen over two other variants the normal and the wraith. The normal latron statistically has less critical chance, status chance, multishot, and fire rate than its wraith or prime counterpart, its a given since the other two where specifically made to be upgrades on it and all other weapons. Wraith and prime however are very similar, The difference is marginally slimmer where the prime sports 2% less critical chance than its wraith counterpart, a slower firerate but slightly higher status. These combined make the prime the more optimal choice thus it gets chosen over the other 2 variants thus making usage stats drop for both and now especially with incarnons the prime only sees higher usage. Same can be said for lato and lato vandal. They already are not that far apart stats wise, Yet vandal would get chosen in a heartbeat because its still marginally better. Its only issue stems from the current lack of damage but a buff to both weapons would not change much other than they now have been uplifted. One would still get chosen over the other and the average gamer majority always chooses the better option. And all of this can be said about the other counterparts for their subsequent variants. The stats while not massively higher gets chosen over its counterpart. Some being marginally better exist yes but in a lot of weapon cases the stats are not that far apart yet the worse one still gets dumped. Its the prime example of what you want where there is a small margin of stats yet the better one still gets chosen. So even with your philosophy things just would not change because current examples literally exist. You see players make a choice, That choice impacts weapon usage stats and will still unless everything is literally the same across the entire board. Then no weapon can be left behind because at that point there is no choice for the player. Rifle A is the exact same as Rifle B. Pistol A is the exact same as Pistol B. Melee A is the exact same as Melee B. Choice gets removed over similarity. Similarity cause stagnation. Stagnation makes the game fundamentally just boring. At that point there might as well just be 1 weapon of each type. 1 rifle. 1. Bow. 1. Pistol. 1 sword. 1 nikana etc etc. Because no choice would matter. The only thing that would have any form of impact would be modding if even it would be allowed to exist in its current form. So either you want to have the game end up the same as players will fundamentally always make the better choice or you want everything to be equal thus no choice has any impact. Do weapons need buffs due to extreme under-utilization? Yes. And that day will come for those weapons. But your view ultimately is flawed. You don't seem to understand how gamers work, If any of what I said wasn't the case usage stats would be way higher across the board with exceptions for weapons that under perform way harder. So again, Feel free to explain how your end goal is such a perfect prospect that ill again mention no game has ever succeeded doing. Because there is no way to have your perfect vision to the game. You cant accept that and thats fine. DE only fails in your eyes after all. The rest of the community seems fine in that prospect however and lets DE do what they want with the game. Im pretty much done with this whole discussion as at this point it leads no where and probably never will. So feel free to argue to the end of time about a concept thats unachievable, Ill enjoy the game with the rest of the community that enjoys it for what it is while still accepting that the game has flaws that can obviously be uplifted and DE keeps working towards that.

Explain how you would accomplish the balance and how weapons in an open ended game with hundreds of choices wont get left behind due to utilization problems. Happens in every game of this type not just warframe and its an endless cycle of weapons getting left behind the more get added and its an issue thats never been solved. If your solution is to lift them all back up that is all fine and dandy but thats not the issue, You cant keep them all balanced equally, If that was possible DE should and would have already done that but its easier to say such things than actually do such things. Noone is afraid, Nothing has been said about that, Thats just your own speculation and not whats been discussed. Why should I be afraid when endgame gets more subsequent content every update and also gets more mods and weapons to keep it the way it is? Simple answer is im not. So explain your solutions to a never ending problem, Instead of asking me why things should stay the way they are. Because I never said things shouldn't be uplifted and balanced and be fun for everyone. However doing so equally is an impossible ask. As every game of this type would want that at every turn.

Your logic is fundamentally flawed, You speak of equalizing everyone but provide nothing for how that is supposed to be achieved, When someone brings up that it would more than likely entail equal damage across the board or some kind of perk system you deflect one and ignore the other. Only quoting yourself by saying that you never said every weapon should be equal when that is what you fundamentally mean. Just because there is no quote if you leave things up to interpretation than there is nothing much else one can do other than speculate. I could easily say yes lets make everything equal, And how would that be accomplished? You never truly answered that as I asked you, Your solution seems to be the holy grail of answers for warframe but when asked DE is just too afraid for it. But apparently its still the best solution. Somehow I really don't believe that, Lets just have everything be fun is your solution but nothing for that gets talked about on how it will be accomplished nor what has to be done. You also seem to be twisting what my main point about the fun part here is, Im not saying everything being fun is bad. But your idea of everything being fun is so vague and still have not had an explanation as to how that would be achieved in an industry where that has never been achieved, That what I said still isn't wrong. You can't have everything be equal for everyone, Still expect everything to be unique and fun and also not have things stagnate into becoming mediocre. If that was even possible DE shouldn't hesitate as you say because that would be the biggest cash opportunity in gaming. Why would they be scared if the entire community would rejoice at it? Simple answer would be they aren't. Because there is no grand solution to fixing everyone's problems. At this point the "potentially ruining gameplay experiences for others" is a matter of speculation on all of your parts, The assumptions that all end game players is a grand big boogeyman is one of the easiest things to claim, If we we talk about nuke builds, yes those are horrible to encounter. Did I ever disagree those should be pulled back? No. But should endgame players need to suffer for you when there is a multitude of ways to play that cant possibly all result in ruining your gameplay experience. You actively want to ruin endgame players choices in the game of choices. They unfortunately are allowed to play just as you, These things go both ways and its not just your experiences being impacted. And as I said earlier thats the unfortunate part that probably will never change. But I digress, You pulled a Merk, proceeded to ignore 50% of what I actually talked about and asked you about, Then painted me to say fun was a grand boogeyman when I never said that and all you really want is endgame to no longer be a distinguished thing from the rest of the game. Your only answer to the problem is for everything to be fun and everyone gets to play, But says nothing or suggest nothing towards how that would be accomplished. Equalization isn't an answer, Because you either says what that actually entails or don't, And then you proceed to get surprised and offended when people assume what you mean by it. You quote DE's goal of "Ideally everyone gets a chance to play" when they might be actively working towards that in a different way than what you might imagine. Your solution isn't the only one in existence. Do I know what those solutions are? No, but DE knows far more than both of us no matter what you or I say. So Im done, Ive made my points and ill still stick by them, You can stick your solution of grandeur that no game has ever achieved while ill see what DE actually does in terms of the games design and balance, Instead of blaming them for a lack of balance when they actively are trying to balance the game.

If having all weapons be good is fun then ask yourself this as a final note. Why on gods green earth have DE nor Destiny's devs done this one thing if its so easy to do. Its been over 10 years and its not like it possibly can't have crossed their minds at the design table. Because its more than likely infinitesimally more difficult than you might believe and what you find to be fun is very much subjective and so is everyone's in the entire game. Some people like the massive amount of variety that warframe offers, Whether or not a weapon is mediocre or not. I mean for christs sake my friend runs around with a stug. Is it any good? God no its one of the worst weapons in the entire game. Is it fun for him? Yes somehow it is. Fun can be made from anything and what your pretext of fun is so vague how else are we suppose to assume that you want anything other than an equalization when thats all we have been talking about, and you literally agreed that all weapons should be viable somehow? But that's not possible to achieve because any weapon will always be better than some weapon and weapons inevitably will fall off, Whether it be stats, perks, status effects, crits etc, And unless everything is at the literal same level it wont work. Thats where we got it from, Its not a quote from you but its a context clue from you wanting a subjective way of fun that you don't elaborate on any further other than equally fun. So explain to me and everyone here how you want everything to be equally fun yet somehow weapons have a diverse set of stats and modifiers, And somehow those diverse weapons wont over-perform each-other somehow. Explain how we can have an equilibrium of balance and fun if not all weapons literally do the same damage or have the same stats. And explain how DE and Bungie, Both company's with years of game design and knowledge cant do that in over a decade but you somehow have solutions in the time this discussion has existed? Just make them all equally fun is that the solution? Then we are back at square one because you have millions of players to fulfill that role to and everyone's fun is different. Fundamentally everything can't be "equally awesome" Its an impossible thing to achieve in terms of game design without reaching some sort of roadblock or stagnation as if everything is the same then nothing is unique. And if nothing can be Unique then it will become mediocre. No game that has a weapon roster with differing stats has ever achieved this before, No MMO, No rpg, No fps. There is no game with equal weapon usage stats. There is no game where all weapons are fun, Nor meta. There is no game where weapons don't get sidelined and possibly abandoned due to the lack of use and lack of utility. And all that applies to all Warframes, Companions, Archwing, Archguns and even Nechramechs, And then the subsequent equivalents in other games. If there is then please do show me where everyone thinks every weapon is equally fun, Is equally good, And solves weapons being left behind, Because if you do thats a breakthrough in game design that you want in warframe. If any of this was achievable it would already be a part of the game. Just saying "equalize" and "equal fun" Do not work, You cant have all weapons be equal and have variety, You cant have them all be fun without something unique. And you cant expect all weapons to be useful because of differing stats and again variety. You can strike balances yes but something will eventually dip from the curve. Especially in games like warframe were adding more weapons only adds more stats to the graph of weapon usage and usefulness. Destiny's combat pacing I wont comment on as it has no real issues for what type of game it is and I never even mentioned it, I only explained to you what their weapon philosophy was and the very real reality most weapons have faced in the game even to the point of being removed from the game for almost half a decade only to come back revamped and even then falling of yet again. I can also just say why should I be permanently limited in warframe a game about the limitless potential we can achieve, To fuel your own power fantasy and have fun with that in mind. So why should my fun be limited to fuel your fun. You want everyone to have equal fun well explain how then. To play my style puts you down, To play your style puts me down. Its fundamentally subjective and I can literally not help you having less numbers then me cause I play how I enjoy the game and have been ever since the game released. Yet I and the apparent tyrannical majority have to put themselves down for achieving great things in the game and reaching the heights they want, Or we are forced to play solo, Does that sound familiar? Sounds very fair if we spin it that direction doesn't it because this goes both ways. Either way you spin it it will suck for either of us and we literally can not change that. So please do tell how everyone gets what they want unless the solution is just for everyone to be the same, And thus again stagnation. "Everything being equally fun/awesome" is not an answer to that question as that is a matter of subjectivity. I can't speak for what the solutions would be, As I do not know. In an Ideal world everything would be fun and equal. But everything is not Ideal and with a cynical view can never be Ideal for everyone. And sometimes that's the way it is, Its not a dismissal its an acceptance. Things will always change down the line and things will always be changed for the better or worse. But It wont and never will be fun nor equal for everyone and everything in any game.

I think you misunderstood the first point a bit. Its not about Viable its about Equalization. As in an example if two pistols both did 400 points of damage and nothing else then why have two different pistols if they fundamentally are just the exact same? At that point one or the other can just be a subsequent skin as if not it only serves to bloat the game with weapons that fundamentally don't need to exist outside of skins. So if all bows work the same, Just have all bows be one bow and the others as skins. Same with shotguns, Pistols and the like. While it will be different if they have differing sub types the point was just if they are exactly the same then why have both at all atleast with the same weapon type. It would also raise the good point of why have a wraith version of a weapon if its base counterpart is just the same. Or Kuva, Tenet, Prisma, vandal, carmine etc if no other weapon excels over other variants. Warframes fundamentally are different due to the different unique abilities and passives while still having its underutilized versions its not the same. And while warframe weapons and destiny weapons have similarities they are still functioning differently. Wraith, Vandal and Carmine work differently as they do not work on perks they work on a differing stat distribution from its normal counterpart. While a pistol in Destiny can look something like: Column 1 increases weapon damage when getting headshots, Column 2 increases reload when emptying the magazine. And subsequent subcolumns under those with niches such as: Kills spawn a pillar of ice that can explode when shot. Then have attachment columns that affect stats. Thus the ones worse off get left behind same as warframe weapons and so forth. And then more gets added and more gets left behind its an endless cycle. Warframe weapons have unique effects on some but not all weapons and so its not fundamentally the same. And that would be the most likely outcome for warframe if you where to compress all weapons to do the same as that is what destiny builds itself on its just that the perk rotations make it unique. But they still face the same issues. There arent really many other solutions. Problems with warframe weapons as well is if we have all weapons do the same but lets say Pistol A has a better unique perk then pistol B will be abandoned no matter if it dealt the same damage as long as pistol A did it better. They also tried to fix said issue with power levels to have all enemies be one powerlevel and you only became at the same effectiveness if you worked up that powerlevel by grinding weapons with higher powerlevels and armor. Its not a stat its a form of level cap. While it works the community has long since gotten tired of that formula as it only serves to limit the player when you hit the same cap thus stagnating any growth or make the player weak when the cap is raised, Even going so far as making the community rejoice when the cap isnt increased for a season. It got and still gets very stale. And well with this we unfortunately have 2 games with similar design philosophies that both have been unable to fix this problem Warframe works on freeflowing builds but weapons get unbalanced and left behind, Destiny works on rigid stat distribution perks and equalization but weapons get unbalanced and left behind. Its a problem of Uniqueness and Equal stats cant coexist because if everything is the same then while you have constant balance nothing will feel worth to work for or can just be skins for weapons of the same subtype, or if you go for Uniqueness between weapons things will feel worth to work for but other things will also get left behind. As of that point I feel like while it can be balanced its a fundamental issue that can never really be fixed. People better than both of us work for both of these games and an equilibrium can never and have never been found. Id say that speaks a lot for itself personally and I think we just gotta accept that everything cant just be perfectly balanced and things will get left behind and then subsequently lifted up later on, Its a thing in most if not all games with differing weapons and other items.

The key doesn't apply to the mods Concealed Explosive and Thunderbolt as well.

Honestly forgot about the CO thing lol. Damn.

Ive dismissed your way of building, Not others. There is a difference. As your way has just shown you to be entitled, Belittle other peoples ways of building and not considering that your way of playing with someone is from anothers perspective of you not keeping up with the others. Thus showing inconsideration to the others. So id rather not take build advice from someone who has shown nothing but hostility and ego, Belittles everyone else playstyle but yours if it marks a hint of over performance or future thinking of the mission at hand, Has lied about their build in the cover of "sarcasm" and goes in with builds that fundamentally show underperformance in a mission but somehow is nothing noteworthy as its considerate to leave early to change your build and leave everyone else hanging and subsequently doing that for every weapon, warframe, mission and mode. So I bid you adieu. We have nothing more to discuss you an I. As hilarious as it was.

The only realistic thing I can suggest he meant is that if weapon A dealt 100 damage but has this perk that allows for a further increase, But weapon B also deals the same damage but fundamentally has a worse perk pool for it it would never be used. Thus if we just made the weapons deal the same damage that would solve that problem. But then the problem changes to "Why should I use weapon A or weapon B if they just do the same thing. Thus weapon A or B could just be skins for one singular weapon type. So if all rifles deal the same damage, Just have one rifle and the rest be cosmetic. Same for beams, Shotguns, Pistols, Melee and all their subsequent types. But that is the most unlikely thing to happen. However the perk option would be a very realistic case seeing as In destiny those weapons work on the very same system you advocate for but there are problems. If this pistol (A) has this perk pool that makes enemies easier to kill, But this pistol (B) has a far worse perkpool with not many of the same benefits. Thus I shall use A. B then gets underutilized. Then they add more weapons. And more. And more. And it spirals to where hundreds of weapons now get underutilized due to minor changes in perks and stats and so they have to be reworked. But then the issues arise again. Its an endless loop Destiny has been struggling with for over 10 years at this point by trying to put everyone on the same baseline which has not really worked too well. Everyone prefers the best weapon of the weapon type they want thus everything else gets underutilized and you cant have every weapon be same in terms of damage nor perks because then the other weapon variables are also useless when someone just picks whichever. Then there are over the top weapons like exotics, That face the same issue but they have "unique" attributes, Some of those attributes either comes out too strong or are too niche to use, And some normal weapons trump over exotics thus making exotics feel pointless. We can compare it to warframes weapons that have unique perks or alternate fires. They would be reduced to gimmicks of which people would choose the better options. That was my point originally as well as Warframe probably would face the same problem. People go for stats and efficiency over everything else and as a consequence even more weapons get underutilized, Warframe has the same issue but at the very least you can mitigate by building the weapon up to be better. Most other options don't let you do that, As I said the entire system of Destiny 2 is a good example to show. Its the biggest show of flat balance but the issues are very prevalent. I however don't call Destiny's devs bad at balancing towards what they want, Its just that keeping an equal balance that everyone is happy with is very difficult and negative things will happen whether one wants it or not. Hell Destiny also has the enemy killing issue there as well. But im not gonna continue to argue towards either, I made my points and Im sticking by them as I already stated earlier on one of your other posts. Hope the explanation cleared up what he meant, Its at-least my interpretation of it.

By doing your part you mean non-stop slogging through the mission to be at level while the rest more than likely pick up the slack, Seeing as its the apparent majority that build higher than you. Thus being inconsiderate towards your fellow teammates as they have objectives they want to do at the time they want and you may or may not be hindering that. You going into an arbitration only to stop short and leave the rest of your teammates behind sure is considerate of you, Since you are not built for endless. Must feel considerate for the others in Defense missions or other activities that incrementally increase in level where when your build falls off your part as a teammate slows down and either you will be reduced to not being able to contribute or you leave, Leaving them with the same result. Those arbitrations where everyone farms the vitus essence? Must feel good for those teammates to lose someone as soon as the enemies scale a bit too high. And god forbid they build to continue at higher levels of enemies we cant have that. Thats inconsiderate. Its so inconsiderate of high level players to be able to adapt to any mission and kill any enemy they are prepared for. Must be so inconsiderate to have a warframe that can armor strip basically every enemy instantly, Those teammates sure wanted those enemies to have armor, By god it must feel bad to kill those easier. Giving everyone infinite energy? Can't have that would make things to easy. We have to be considerate after all. Whats this, Giving everyone overguard? Well that makes it so enemies aren't on even ground with us thus trivializing survival. Dammit that's so unfair for a player to be able to continue for way longer in the mission. If teammates are struggling with eximus units its gotta be inconsiderate of the high end player to mow that down. No no let that eximus live for another 10 minutes that sure shows him. Whats this? Giving everyone viral thus increasing their damage output? Well cant have that we must be built for the level so dealing damage past that is unfair. Damn high end players sure suck, When one of these things happen which they do frequently due to the high saturation of warframes they are just the worst players known to man. And sure, Negative situations happen frequently, But boy is it easy to ignore everything else they put out on the table. And that anyone other than high end players also can do. Nuke builds are an outlier that alot of people don't like which was the main point of the thread, Many of who have been opposed to your view have been opposed to them as well including me. We've already established that some of them could use tuning. You have alot of variables of being considerate but you've only focused on one that when faced with most situations can be quite inconsiderate towards others. Because I do not believe for a single second that one of those variables have not applied to you with the way you have built yourself and choose to actively do throughout every mode. From what I saw thats not him quoting you or suggesting you said anything, He was making an example of the consequence of the hypothetical changes he was responding to you with.

Kinda feel bad for those teammates, Having to either deal with someone who can't kill enemies properly or just barely or someone who just drops out when his build has hit the threshold thus leaving those teammates to fend for themselves. Consideration really doesn't seem to be a thing there.

"Consideration" "Slows the game down by not building properly and actively being unable to contribute." Mhm Mhm.

The heart of your topic was to play with teammates. All you've done to prove is that you drag them down, Then get mad when they outperform you. So just keep doing that, Free world after all.

Basically yes, He will then re-adjust slightly and go back in. Either further slowing the game down or just barely being at the baseline in a level growing mission. Good point with the dragon key, It does work well for those situations.

Not destroying everything? It can't even kill basic enemies. You are describing basic buildcrafting but when anyone outperforms you, you complain. Its funny how any amount of freedom anyone else has is bad but you limiting everything is good. This is laughable. At this point any word from you has little point. My points where already proven pages ago.

Just gonna mention his build struggles in base level Arbitrations, It can barely kill unarmored infested enemies and drones and cant even take the overguard away from an Eximus unit, At level 70 and further it struggles to even deal with one enemy let alone a horde. Thus slowing the entire team down instead of "playing with them." Actively felt bad for everyone else involved. His own philosophy is to go in, Slow everyone else down, Complain about their builds outperforming his and then doing slight adjustments to sit at the baseline increase of enemies and repeating the process again. It would be funny if it wasn't self evident.

Alternatives do exist yes, You get angry at every alternative that isnt yours. So feel free to stop out of the limelight if you want, The nuance of higher tiered builds elude you and only further your frustrations after all.

You are so gracious to show you can play the basic game, Don't overwhelm everyone with your top tier buildcrafting

At this point Ill just be convinced you cant even build a sheev. Can't even show his own results he is proud of lmao.

You'll do anything but prove yourself huh? Alright then.