WolvenEdge
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Posts posted by WolvenEdge
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1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:
This argument doesn't really make sense for several reasons.
One of which being whatever that metal is, I doubt it's gold. The Orokin use it everywhere. You can barely walk two feet anywhere in the system without tripping over a shiny pile of Orokin junk. Particularly in the orb valis which seems to have the stuff literally growing out of the ground.Lore implies it's oxium, outside of the towers where it's enough gold to induce "gilded lung" among Ostron workers. The Corpus do use oxium a lot, so while it may not be as valuable as gold, it's still something that could theoretically help fund its own removal.
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We want it back.
Keeping it around makes no sense.
We have ridonculous stores of credits and resources to throw at it.
Let us help clean the Narmer skutz off of our hubs. The changes to the open plains are ok, I understand the people living there and in charge not wanting to eat the risks of cleaning that up (and the whole "Vallis gets greener if given time" idea I personally love), but the towns?
We don't want it. The Ostron don't want it. The Solaris don't want it. The Corpus probably don't want it staying around, and might even help clean up if paid. The Grineer are the only ones who might not care.
So let us talk to Ticker and Konzu and help clean the cities up already!-
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Just had the same problem; the clouds were not linked in any way to the braids on the siphon, and would not break when the clouds were destroyed; that part of the mission can now become impossible to complete.
This happened on the assassination node on Europa. -
Ayatan look awful in this washed out light...
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18 minutes ago, Blade_Wolf_16 said:
[1] *Looks at Octavia's Diva Polearm and many other Tennogen weapons/syandanas/skins* Yeah, not sure about that.
[2] And btw, mind explaining the difference between "ancient/middle-age/neo-Orokin"? Because I don't think DE ever stated any differences between Orokin Eras' designs.
[3] Oh and Syndicates skins don't alter the base model of weapons, which means it's not "their designs", just their colors and logos.
[4] It just feels like you put everything in that list to make it look impressive, even tho half of it doesn't mean anything.
1.
Octavia's Diva polearm appears to be of late non-Prime warframe make, in the same art vein as Ivara and her signature weapon set. The three-pronged shape and curved blades are almost emblematic of later warframe designs, such as Khora and Gara. The single step away from this is the microphone head, but that's a logical step thanks to the warframe in question.
Also; I did mention that the modern Tenno design aesthetic is becoming more diluted, did I not? That said, most of the Tennogen skins do try to hold an aesthetic that is, if not directly in the lore, at least lore-friendly... and I would very much like to maintain that trend.2.
->Ancient Orokin designs; Excalibur Prime, Frost Prime, and even Excalibur Umbra. Fairly minimalistic, still clearly built more for combat than decoration, even incorporating the 'decoration' into tactical use weaponry of its own right, such as when we see (ahem, spoilers) Umbra pin the operator to the wall with his arm-Us (no more spoilers).
->Newer Orokin designs; Nyx Prime, Banshee Prime, and Chroma Prime. They were winning the war that spawned the Tenno/Warframes at this point, and dress/formal uniform became more common, with large embellishment that wasn't specifically functional becoming more normal.This is a logical progression that real life militaries go through as well, by the way.
I'm more concerned that you want to be spoon-fed the lore rather than even trying to infer it.3.
Color, logo, skin, function, and even substance, excuse you. Baro Ki'teer and the syndicates aren't just spray-painting them; three of these are near-core elements of design. Some of the changes are indeed more obvious than others, and that's something I would like to see DE improve on, but if you want their primary design aesthetic, look at their respective rooms.4.
I listed all of the examples I could pull off the top of my head that are distinct or near-distinct aesthetics that are present in the game... though I did mess up and put Cephalon twice. My bad. The point wasn't to look impressive, it was that there is a massive variety of design aesthetics already in the game, that do not require some strange explanation as to how they ended up there, like a wormhole to WoW or Termina. -
1 hour ago, (PS4)lokaspoka said:
yes it does
Are you going to give any explanation at all, or are you trolling?
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On 2018-10-12 at 2:49 PM, (PS4)lokaspoka said:
it look like it belongs in warframe
No. No it doesn't.
It does not follow any of the design foundations of Grineer, Corpus, Infested, Hunhow Sentient, Eidolon Sentient, Stalker, Arbiters of Hexis, Cephalon Suda, Red Veil, New Loka, ancient Orokin, niddle-age Orokin, neo-Orokin, Ki'Teer, Cephalon, Ancient/proto-Tenno, nor even the fuzziest interpretation of modern Tenno.
The sword is relatively nondescript, so it gets a pass for being functional even without aesthetic, but the shield looks more like Shiekah tech than anything currently in the Warframe mythos.It looks like it might eventually wind up in Warframe if the art style of modern Tenno continues to be diluted, but for now, it's a bit long of a step.
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It looks like it belongs in Legend of Zelda.
I'm not sure if I do or don't like this. -
On 2018-06-15 at 3:59 PM, DALOS said:
Or at the very least make it a V polarity so I can swap it with Primed PP easily when I need to kill sentients.
It does more damage against the rarest faction in the game, that doesn't sound fair in general.
Other than that I've been enjoying Umbra so far.
On 2018-06-15 at 5:55 PM, DALOS said:As strong as Primed PP when both mods fully ranked are together. I don't think it needs to be more powerful than that, the extra damage to sentients is enough to make it better.
So... you're saying that, as it stands, it's a trade-off for use against a specific faction.
Like all of the other Smite effect melee mods, and to a degree, all elemental mods and combinations in the game.Do you think that, maybe, this could actually be working as intended? Every mod is a tradeoff for every other mod that could be in that mod slot, just as every weapon or warframe is a trade-off for every other weapon or warframe, and that will still be the case even if damage 3.0/modding 2.0 comes out good.
Look, I'm sorry if you sold off your Excalibur after getting Umbra, or some similar situation, but he and his gear are pretty solidly in the position of anti-Sentient weaponry, as opposed to most other frames and weapons, which, I might add, also have their own soft specializations. If you're in the camp that believes that every mod and damage type should be just as effective against every enemy armor//health/shield combination, then I really don't know how to explain this to you in another way;
Harsh luck. Advanced rock-paper-scissors is a solid staple in RPGs, and you're not likely to change that. Sentients have fewer counters than other factions, and Umbra, with his kit, expands that niche. I'd argue that, beyond being predictable, this was necessary, as a lot of players dislike stepping out of their warframes.
On the other hand, Sentient enemies are going to be far more prevalent in the Tau system, which we stand a good chance of paying a visit soon, chasing after our dear Natah. We've been handed a powerful weapon for the battles ahead, so let's try to play the long game.
In the meantime, the Umbra quest will be replayable soon, so let's see if we can learn a few lessons playing Go with space stepdad. -
18 hours ago, (XB1)NRFP Gladhe8her said:
Only benefits pc users.
Oi, watch where you're aiming that comment.
We've been throughout this thread saying that it stinks since they dropped it on us. DE then refused to listen and dropped it on you. PC users, including KB/M players like myself, aren't getting any better; our keyboard shortcuts were also disabled, and haven't been turned back on. Sure, the game hasn't been utterly ruined for us, as this is the kind of control scheme we're used to in the first place (ergo not much changed), but do trust me; we've gotten no benefit out of this either.
Now if you'd kindly point your accusations at the ones deserving of it? Hmm?
DE! Fix your game! You have a big update dropping literally right now, and a lot of us aren't going to be playing it until the UI/X is patched. -
'Twas the night before updates, and all through the ship,
nobody stirred, RedText did not quip.Though there should have been so much excitement ahead,
the players were ticked; the UX was still dead.The Tenno were waiting, blades clean in their sheaths;
logons showed still a cursor that filled them with grief.... seriously, when are we getting a fix? Please? We wanna play the new update without taking half an hour to get through the required menus.
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6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:
And if bones can withstand it, whats the difference with sentient cores/shards.
They're living Sentient 'tissue', for one, which means they are vulnerable... at least from a lore perspective. Gameplay/lore divide and all that, which I am somewhat salty has to be a thing, but we can't have trolls wandering the plains at night destroying the cores before other players can pick them up, now can we?
6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:That was far from mild exposure. They were in the void and Suda-Hunhow's shielding was barely able to shield them.
... So ambient energy that a non-combat ship ("Operator! I'm a stealth ship, not a combat pod!") can resist with ease, is of the same if not higher concentration than weapons-grade void energy. ("Operator, no, you'll breach the hull!")
I can't buy that, sorry; it's the difference between a sunny day and a particle accelerator. The exposure was relatively very mild, and even taking this into account, Suda-Hunhow's shielding was barely able to keep them functional; they would not survive Warframe abilities before conversion from concentrated Void energy.6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:Eidolon Phylaxis was specifically manufactured to be poison to technocyte by exploiting Sentient's immunity to it. No different from taking the blood of a person who is immune to a virus and synthesizing a cure from it. Nothing in the lore suggests or says that Sentients are outright poisonous to technocyte. Other than that I'm not understanding what you're trying to say here with alive and dead.
By 'specifically manufactured' you must mean 'isolated from materials around the plains that have been exposed to the Eidolon and mixed into a carrier fluid'. It barely takes two minutes to build, using the same nanite forge that takes an entire day to build a dagger. This is on par to it also taking a couple of minutes to put isotopes into a jar for later, or plugging arithmetec processing units into a circuitboard for coordinate calculations. You know, the easy stuff.
Even the lore entry itself says 'formulated', not 'engineered', not 'manufactured', not even 'recombined'. It's a mixtture, not an extrapolation; the primary ingredients are iradite and nistlepods, with grokdrul assumed as a carrier fluid compatible with the drones we use as injectors. What the credits are used for, nobody knows... I think our nanite forge demands quarters for player one. Thus; even the smallest of Sentient pieces have such a high resistance... no, not even resistance; lethality to technocyte organisms that we can easily isolate and use it. There are thus no, nor can there be, Sentient-infected Technocyte organisms, nor Infested Sentients. This is pretty clear-cut.
Alive vs dead, in terms of Sentients is tricky, as all xenobiology is, but this is on the easier end of a tough subject.
To cover this, I'm going to have to assume that Sentient life is cell-based, if not directly than at least for the purpose of metaphor.
Void energy causes damage to Sentient life forms; it renders a Sentient target sterile, and causes damage that cannot be healed, only rearranged around. To do this to a living creature, what you end up having to do is disable meiosis; the cells are no longer able to split; the organism's current cells are the only cells it will ever have again. Sentients are only still alive because they're so stupidly durable; their tissue either does not die from age, or ages at an incredibly slow rate, and their reactive shielding/armor allows them to efficiently avoid further damage.Thus; a living Sentient is a Sentient that still has living tissue; operating, changing shape, and still producing energy and whatever we mix into Phylaxis... but due to Void exposure, unable to form more cells.
Also thus; a dead Sentient is a Sentient that is no more; all that is left are the mineral deposits and/or armor that existed between the cells, much like the calcium phosphate structure in your own bones or the hollow chitin of a long-dead insect, that will likely be around for a long time after all of the cells in and around it are gone. These are the parts that we can use, the only parts that aren't destroyed outright by Void energy, though a careful shot can leave the core alive.We use Sentient bones in crafting weaponry, as Hunhow has directly stated; the non-living leftovers of Sentient life. To date, War, Broken-War, and (probably) Amps. Due to how we focus Void energy when channeling or using any Operator ability, any living Sentient cells that remain in these weapons are gone within the first few uses.
6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:Well obviously all base warframes are copies of the primes but that in itself is unknown on which came first. And the Eidolon is still a Sentient. DE saying Eidolon is purely from a design/thematic point of view that has nothing to do with the lore. Not to mention that Eidolons are the broken pieces of the colossal Sentient that Gara destroyed so the timeline of events is still intact.
Order of manufacture between Prime and non-Prime doesn't matter; the Orokin were the only ones who knew how to design new Warframes, and we're living off of copies of what we can scavenge from what's left... we still can't directly build our own. We can change their appearance to a degree, and add in modifications that tweak how the systems and Technocyte tissue interact, but this is the extent of our capabilities on the matter. Alad V tried, and failedd; he had to patch his constructs together using Warframe parts that he had a heck of a time isolating without them detecting the damage and ... well, we're not certain; we assume they self-destruct, or have some other method of directly resisting fine observaton, as he's far from the only person who tried, and the only one who developed a trick that allowed him to conduct actual research on us.
Back on topic; no, the timeline of events is NOT intact; Vlad's theme, meaning his structure, abilities, and (not or) cosmetic is linked to the Sentient, specifically Eidolon (not 'the Eidolon' plural, Eidolon; the original Sentient), who only made itself known and attacked the tower after the Orokin were gone. I'm tired of beating this horse.
Wait, when did I imply that the Eidolon aren't Sentients?
I have a really, really big beef with you here; design elements have everything to do with the lore, no matter how trivial they may seem.
Lore itself is a concept choice that drives the design process in any game that wants decent world cohesiveness, and thus good suspension of disbelief. This is creative writing 101; the Tolkiening. World-building is even more important to visual media, and even more so to interactive media, where it is actually put to the test rather than just submitted for your viewing pleasure. Try as you might, you're not going to be able to change my mind on this one; I've seen many works of immersive art fall flat due to ignoring this rule even in part.
I will admit that the opposite is true if you're aiming for meta, post-modern, or parody works, as these call all suspension of disbelief into question by definition. Warframe, however, is far removed from any of these.6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:The Sentinel codex did mention that Sentinels closely resembled the Sentients but bared no aggression as the difference from the enemy of the tenno. Whether that counts or not idk.
😐
The resemblance to Sentients was, in the lore, listed as 'precarious'.
This means roughly the opposite of 'closely resembled'.They're also listed as 'mechanical', something Sentient are not, listed as 'immediately helpful' as well. These creatures do not have adaptive shielding/armor, aren't harmed by ambient Void energy, have no semblance of a hive- or linked-mind, and share a lot more in common with roombas than with our dear Hunhow.
Lack of aggression as THE difference indeed; the only direct similarity is general floatiness. Their design aesthetic doesn't even match unless you add armor to make them look slightly more Sentient.6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:Long story short. We already have Shadow Stalker who was bestowed sentient abilities from Hunhow. Whether he is wearing armor or not, he has to bepower his sentient powers from somewhere.
Sort of; Hunhow gave Stalker a chunk of himself, because that's what the Hunhow do. I imagine Stalkiepoo is very careful about his new buddy; I don't recall having ever seen him use Channeling in any of our fights, instead focusing on letting Hunhow handle all of the energy work, which explains why he has access to Spam Central's Power Use Division. Also explains why none of his abilities match his previous self; he won't use his old, Void-built set.
In the meantime, Stalker's situation fits section II-a in my outline of the matter; a living Sentient ally that is both alive and separate from the Warframe. Thank you for further pointing out that system's viability and lore-friendliness. 😊
On the side, I hope you're better rested in the morning; you're giving me a proper nerd workout, thank you.6 hours ago, ShadowExodus said:And another piece that I haven't seen people mentioned is that the orokin themselves are the ones who engineered the sentient weakness to the void. What says that they can't undo it? Then there's Kuva which we know from the Gara lore, in some way can heal Sentients (due to being able to restore the permanent damage that prevented them from replication)
They can't do it because their scientists are dead. The only survivor closely enough related to the Sentient project is Ballas, and there are two reasons he cant/won't; he's not an Archimedian, and he knows better. There is one 'surviving' Archimedian; the Silver Grove, but she was not involved in Sentient R&D, as she was only brought on board long afterward specifically for Warframe development. She also seems unwilling to help any side in this fight, but is more amenable to us than our enemies. All of this together says she'll resist the Sentient with everything she has should they find her.
Lucky for her, the probability of her being Void infused due to the process that bound her there is pretty high, so the chances of the Sentient getting any information at all out of her are low, with useful information being even less likely.Refined Temple Kuva (not just any Kuva, mind) was a source of hope for our dear Eidolon; a chance of being able to help, not a certainty. It was also a chance that didn't pan out, as it's what Gara used to destroy it in the end, so, no; that isn't a viable option either. Even if it were; taking into account that we still can't build our own warframes, timing and tech still get in our way, all this would do is make Sentient enemies even more of a nightmare, as they can now regenerate health and split into more Sentients... at least until you hit them with Void damage, then it's back to square one.
Please tell me if there's any way I can make my position clearer; I'm bad at losing my point in side tracks and excessive verbage, which is why I went for the outline previously.
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6 minutes ago, (XB1)Sedit This said:
We didn't stop at 12 pages on our "mega thread," by the 24 hour mark there were 40+ pages of negativity towards this p.o.s. UI. It's still garbage, but at least DE is listening.
Yeah... gamepad players on PC are a minority, there's only so much we could do, especially with the chat chosing not to integrate all of the other complaint threads into the megathread... some of the others were almost as long.
We? They? ... I'm a kb/m player, what am I saying? I just know a few people who prefer gamepad, one of whom does so due to disabilities that affect eye/hand coordination and limit her ability to use a cursor in general.
Either way, thanks again... it took DE putting an entire demographic through both frying pan and campfire, but progress has been made.
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Where were you last month?
Thanks for getting around to it, and promising more to come... but at the same time, if you'd have listened to your PC playerbase, we did tell you this would happen many times since the middle of May. Please take to heart that when your testing crew warns you about something, we aren't just blowing smoke.
I sincerely hope you can recover some of the players that you lost.
At all of you console peeps; thank you. You got a message through in one day that we failed to in three weeks. Please, please become more active on the forums; we could get beneficial changes noticed a lot faster with your help, if this is any indication.
And again, at DE; Thank you for taking notice. Please learn from this.
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Ooh, lookie; we got some actual attention.
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Just now, ShadowExodus said:
But it still uses sentient parts does it not? It amplifies and focuses the Operator's void energy straight from the source. What's the difference between wearing an amp and wearing a warframe? Both basically do the same thing except Warframes channels void energy into completely different elements/abilities. It's not a stretch nor as lore breaking as people think if a warframe was created to use sentient energy. But in this case it said that it was afflicted with it, so there will need to be some explanation on that but only if DE feels like it.
The only part of Sentients that we know to be capable of withstanding Void energy are their bones, as Hunhow directly told us. "Natah, you would trust tis orokin blood, that would chisel weaponf from our bones?"
At the same time, even mild exposure to the Void causes them to degrade at an incredible rate, as evidenced by the crumbling excuses for Battalysts and Conculysts we fight in Octavia's Anthem... and they practically fell apart even with Suda shielding them.There are several problems lorewise with a Sentient-infused Warframe, taking the lore into account.
Sentient Warframe
I. Integrated parts
a. alive. Problem; Sentient Phylaxis is poison to Technocyte (the stuff Warframes are made of), giving them complete immunity, and the Void kills Sentients. The organisms involved are mutually harmful to each other. Thus; lore break.
b. dead. Solves the mutually poisonous xenobiology, but... Problem; timeline. Thus; lore break.
1. We don't have the tech to build our own Warframes... only clone the leftover scraps that we managed to hide away from the Orokin. It can't be done now that we've lost the developing scientists... well, all save one, but I doubt the Silver Grove is willing to help.
2. The Eidolon (the specific Sentient our buddy Vlad is based on) appeared and wreaked havoc after the Orokin were killed. There was no inspiration for the makers of Vlad at the time, as the Sentient in question had not made itself known.
II. Non-integrated parts (just armor, or some kind of pet, etc.)
a. alive. No lore break, as it could have joined up with Vlad afterward and found a mutually beneficial relationship.
1. Would have to be pretty dumb to work with a Tenno consistently,
2. Must have no link to a larger Sentient mind, like the Eidolon or Hunhow. Wisps seem to act on their own, so they would work.
3. Must be isolated from all Warframe abilities that channel raw Void, and channeling in general, so that it isn't damaged by the partnership.
b. dead. Would require structures on the warframe that we don't see in game... so, half of a lore break? That said, this one would be the easiest to fix via a cosmetic update to the frame.
1. A built-in Amp would be pretty hard to miss.II-a is the only option that accounts for all of the variables in lore and art; a warframe and a Sentient working together as two separate creatures. My warframe rework idea for Vlad capitalizes on this, using the Warframe as an amplifier for a wisp-like Sentient's abilities; a warframe that isn't normally wwell suited for combat taking a functional role through developments after its creation, only requiring a minor cosmetic update to fit its new theme... something that we can do in lore.
Meanwhile, II-b would work as well; I'd love to see a Warframe covered in what amounts to Amp-cannons, but this would change the look of Mr. beardy mcVlad-face.
I hope this makes it easier to understand what we're talking about when we say lore break?
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1 minute ago, ShadowExodus said:
Amps use sentient parts and they amplify void beams by operators (along with the sentient-like aesthetic). If that can exist what's wrong with a warframe built around using sentient energy against sentients.
Amps, from what we can tell via aesthetic and description, use sentient bones or sentient-infused materials as a structure to hold crystals in place. This is not the same thing; the void energy is added in afterward, and focused through a crystal, the sentient parts, if any, don't seem to be part of the function of the structure more than as an inert base.
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On 2018-05-17 at 9:45 AM, Retchid said:
LB ( I meant thumb stick) no longer lets you scroll down the Menu - Can we have it back
Navigation does not work - no scroll in the top menu pressing LB or RB and does not show missions at all (crashed) initially works with mouse but then locks
Other than that seems to work ok in foundry and arsenal
But the Navigation is a game breaker
On 2018-05-17 at 9:58 PM, HeadOfNights said:I can only play this game with a gamepad and there's nothing that makes me more uncomfortable than having my crontrols not work how they've always worked all of a sudden. Having to move a cursor through menus is so much more cumbersome and uncomfortable that simply navigating up or down with the d-pad or the stick, really slow too. It's really annoying to have this sort of change forced onto everyone isntead of there being a way to switch it on and off, it literally stopped me from playing tonight because of how erid it feels. Please either revert it back to how it used to be, or just add an option to opt out of it and have the old D-pad/stick navigation.
On 2018-05-17 at 10:14 PM, Hiro198007 said:I agree with what has been said above and want to add one important point
The new contloller navigation makes modding 10x more time consuming. We all know modding is such a critical part of WF game exlerience and this is almost deal breaker for me. I really have to choose between using mouse/keyboard (which is very unlikely for me. I dont usually play PC games that dont offer controller support but WF is kind of special to me, i have to admit) and giving up WF. I really hope the old controller navigation gets back
On 2018-05-18 at 6:45 AM, EtchDestroysTheSun said:The new controller interface is slow, ponderous, imprecise and the button-use changes are baffling and arbitrary. It is trash. I'm not even going to play until it gets rolled back. And if it doesn't, I guess I'll get those 16GB of hard drive space back, so there's ONE upside.
On 2018-05-18 at 6:56 AM, JoeJelly said:The change is quite simply terrible, its fine to implement a new experimental change and give players a choice of using it. But to force this new system which now takes 10 times longer to perform simple actions is crazy, especially since the old style worked flawlessly.
I wont be playing much until its fixed, and the previous setup is made available again.
On 2018-05-18 at 5:04 PM, Maelthric said:The new virtual cursor is a HUGE step backwards. I literally cant mod anything in the arsenal. It shouldnt be this hard when the old UI worked just fine. It takes much more time and effort to move cursors around than the old UIs method. It is slow clunky and inefficient. I cant play the game like this. Please allow us to toggle the virtual cursor!
And the chat text box is broken almsot laughable if it wasnt making me angry. Itsl.like a twisted amalagam of mouse and controller input that has no logic .
Im done with Warframe until all this is sorted out. And I love our game...but this is just bad and TBH i am really pissed.
On 2018-05-18 at 7:46 PM, ClockworkDirge said:Can we please have some way to revert back to the pre-update UI in the settings? At the very least as an accessibility option? I have a disability that affects how my hands work, and found the old UI much easier to navigate the menus with than the new version. I appreciate your efforts to make the controller UI more streamlined and increase functionality, but this kinda alienates people who chose to use a controller and really appreciated the old UI because it was friendlier to use with conditions that affect hand-eye coordination.
On 2018-05-18 at 9:01 PM, HeadOfNights said:another thing that makes this change REALLY AWFUL and slows everything to a crawl, why was removing the face buttons on the arsenal menus necessary? did someone really think that dragging and imprecise cursor and having to click each one manually was faster that just hitting the button for the thing that you want? Pleaaase revert this or add an option to switch back to the old mode, it's really making me not want to play at the moment.
On 2018-05-19 at 12:36 AM, Dangerbone said:The virtual cursor and transition from keyboard/mouse to controller is far from seamless. The gesture is appreciated but it makes the UI feel awkward for KBM+controller players. Prior to this implementation I could simply hit my "T" key to bring up chat, type something, and get back to the game by hitting esc. Now I have to click on the chat box to use my keyboard, it's a bit less intuitive during combat. Beyond that I often have to hit a button on my controller twice for a yes/no selection to register. Once to switch to virtual cursor mode, and again to actually select the desired option. Prior to the update it took one hit of the A button to say yes or one hit of the B button to say no. Also for some reason A and B (don't use a Playstation dualshock, so I don't know that config) aren't standardized to A(yes)/B(no) like almost every other game that has controller support. I've gotten X(yes) and B(no) for the Skip Cutscene prompt and X(leave) and Y(stay) for endless missions. Prior to the update this was natively in the A(yes)/B(no) format. I know this is a minor gripe compared to the other stuff but it adds another layer of jank to an already janky implementation.
It feels as if the console controls were just tacked onto the PC build without thought towards how players that switch between KBM and controller operate. While I can't speak for everyone, I use my keyboard and mouse for menus and chat while I use my controller for gameplay. I also find the automatic changing between controller menu icons and native icons distracting; a way to lock the UI to the default KBM format would be nice. Beyond that an option to disable the virtual cursor altogether would be much appreciated, as it actively hinders how I interact with Warframe which makes me want to play less. I don't enjoy having to adapt to crummy UI implementations when the previous system worked better. It's great that DE considers controller players on PC but this UI change is unintuitive garbage.
On 2018-05-20 at 4:08 PM, DementedSlasher said:Some people like the new Controller update. A lot more don't, I personally hate it to the point I haven't been playing even half as much as normal. I don't think the feature should be removed. However we should be able to decide if we want to use it. I personally suggest a toggle feature.
On 2018-05-23 at 9:17 PM, Kalnareff said:It's beyond bad.
Not only the cursor is a bad idea from the get go but now it tries to switch in between controller and keyboard hud all the time, while I use the mouse to select stuff I now have to press O on my ps4 controller twice to go back to the previous window, and if I barelly scratches my mouse it goes back to the KB&M hud again, making it extremly tedious to navigate.
Please forget about the "Fanciness" of this new controller HUD and roll back to the old system OR allow us to toggle it off at least.
The unintuitivness of it doesn't makes me want to play the game at the moment.
On 2018-05-24 at 5:06 AM, Sawney said:I too hate the new setup. Give me the option for dpad controls. Also the login screen no longer gives the option to hit x to enter password. I play with controller to not have to ever touch my keyboard. The random lb rb not working makes the mod and foundry menus a nightmare to navigate. X not a to confirm cutscene skip ect.
This game is not Destiny 2 don't try to be like them. Got that game in humble bundle and refuse to play because of their virtual mouse cursor. Now it infects my go to game. Not cool.
The shrines update was perfect. You gave us actual functionality. Everything was working superbly. The way it is now is horrible and worse not asked for.
I used to be a huge fan and supporter of this game voiced very much through my wallet. I have regularly kept a over 1k purchased plat balance in game. I have every weapon and frame I've ever earned or bought including mks with all the 12p slots that goes along with that. I now feel great negativity very much connected to my waste of 20 bucks for the tennocon virtual ticket. I bought the package mainly for the baro access that is now useless to me because of not wanting to play with the new menu controls and therefore my chances to earn ducats.
I am right on the verge of uninstalling and never looking back. Which is a shame because I have a lot of fun for 2 years but a bonehead move like this that destroys my QoL I find personally unacceptable.
On 2018-05-24 at 9:37 PM, F1ameBlade said:I have a few physical issues that force me to play most games with a controller layout or an emulated one. This game was a shining beacon of light in the giant sea of PC developers who are obsessed with KB&M controls. I believed the developers were on the consistent path of improving those controls. I recommended this game to many people who ranged from controller enthusiasts to people with severe physical disabilities. It seemed like they "got" us.
Boy do I have egg on my face. I wish I could remember everyone I've recommended so I could apologize.
There was a time when the menus felt lightning fast. Even for people with a controller. However, this new artificial mouse cursor clearly shows a plan that does not have the controller player's interests at heart. I can learn to adapt. That's nothing new. But what was once a feeling of hype and wonder at every mention of the new UI update, has now been replaced by a feeling of embarrassment. Controller players on the PC are not unfamiliar with the artificial mouse cursor. In every other game it feels cheap, unresponsive, and unintuitive. It screams "I realize a portion of my community is large enough to warrant resources dedicated to navigating menus, so I'm going to give them the bare minimum support for that." To be honest, maybe I'm not as surprised that DE would decide to go in this direction, as I am disappointed that it would even be an option.
Don't get me wrong though. I still enjoy the game. Wouldn't have logged in to post if I didn't. I would have just uninstalled and moved on. The only real effect that this is going to have on me though, in the long term at least, is that I am not recommending this game to new controller players. Ever again. Even if these changes are totally reverted, it shows that there is a broken philosophy at the core of the controller UI development. I can not in good faith tell someone that DE would never take away their preferred way to control the game. I can not tell someone that their time is well spent on a game that could at the the drop of a hat take away features that I gushed and raved over. I can not agree with someone spending money on a game that will possibly have an even more controller unfriendly UI in the next coming months.
So that's all from me. All the possible ways to fix this have already been stated. Adding a revert option. Giving back the ability to scroll through the menus and then use a key press to jump to another part of the menu. Ect. I'm sure that there will be some kind of fix for this in the future. Whether it be near or far. But I will caution that this "throw it out and see what sticks" design process has and will continue to hurt the full potential this game has. Its a sad sight to see and I wish good luck to the other Tenno in a similar position and I really hope, for all of our sake, that this minor hiccup helps you to learn before your team releases the grandiose UI update in the near future.
All of the above were onlly from the first three pages; after the release dropped for PC. At least thirteen people have either much reduced their playtime, or stopped entirely within the first couple of days, on pc.
Are you still going to hold the position that my sources don't correlate to my position?The next are from pages 5, 6, and 7. Two and roughly a third of a page after the update dropped on consoles. Less time, fewer pages covered (meaning more comments in a far shorter amount of time, that should tell you something) and almost as many comments to the extent of 'I'm either leaving or greatly reducing my playtime because of this.'
20 hours ago, (PS4)syowr said:It went live on ps4 this morning and it's really bad.
Clan chat is just full of people complaining about it and a bunch are just putting the game down till its fixed. A bunch of us are even gonna meet up on Destiny2 *shudder*
20 hours ago, (PS4)LubzinNJ said:It passed cert and is active now. And it is dreadful. Not going to be playing much until this gets changed, and if it's true that they aren't planning on implementing a way to choose the old system I'm just going to move on. This was unasked for, unnecessary, and is a total impediment to getting anything done on a console system.
20 hours ago, BiTheWay said:What. The. H311? That is horrible, terrible, no good, news! I hope DE catches never ending flac on Twitter because of it. I hope people make such a big stink about it that DE is FORCED to do something about it. Just like DE forced us into using something that was never asked for and unnecessary.
Now, I am depressed. For a hot moment, I thought I had a respite from dealing with the PC Virtual Cursor nightmare, by playing my PS4 account. Not any more.
20 hours ago, (PS4)Niashi said:I'm sorry DE, but this is just bad. Really bad. There's no muscle memory to retrain here. Just an outright bad decision. The reasons it's bad have already been said over and over. If I wanted to play Warframe with a cursor, I would play it on the PC. There was literally nothing wrong with the way the game operated on controller. I have tried so hard to ride out this wave of one bad decision after another that has been made lately. But more and more this game is just becoming ruined. I have tried giving you benefit of the doubt over and over again, and each time I am still left scratching my head as to why you do what you do. I loved this game very much and now I think it's time to move on. I will continue to follow what becomes of these choices you make and I can only hope that it inevitably doesn't lead to the end of this game. You have asked your players what they want, they have answered and you have ignored them repeatedly as of late. If you come to your senses and undo this travesty, I will gladly return. It upsets me feeling like my current 3 month boosters and plat purchases and prime packs that I've purchased aren't enough incentive to keep me here. I will let them rot and expire without enjoying them because I just can't play this game in it's current state. I beg you to please reconsider what you're doing here and really ask yourself what kind of game you want this to be and ask yourself is it the same game your players want.
20 hours ago, (PS4)RWalls91 said:First post, but I just have to give feedback. PS4 player, Mastery 25 playing for 337+ days.
This new cursor is terrible. Not being able to press different buttons to quickly navigate in arsenal to upgrade, appearance, abilities etc. slows it down. I find myself sticking to the d-pad to try and circumnavigate the changes. Right thumbpad no longer turns war frame around unless left thumb stick is hovering over it which is just a pain. And that's just my first impression. I'm a controller player, I don't want to be forced to play with a virtual mouse. If I wanted a mouse based gameplay I would play on PC. Please change ASAP, because dedicated as I may be this "feature" makes me want to shut the game down.
19 hours ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:Haven’t played it yet, but my fiancé is at home, upset because everything takes four times as much to do.
We’re not pc players, so I don’t understand why this is being forced upon us. Hoping there will be a future update to implement a toggle on/off?
I don’t even want to play the update when I go home now. I’m pretty disappointed. 😞
Edit: He’s been playing around and the controls are clunky, and the holding a mod to attach it takes a lot longer. I’ll edit more when I play it.Edit 2: Yeah it’s just.. horrible. I don’t even want to play because everything takes twice as long. Why the need to click,’drag and place? There’s absolutely no reason, especially when we’re using controllers. I get you want it easier, but it shouldn’t be forced.I don’t wanna stop playing this game; I love it. Please consider making it better, by fixing it or adding a toggle option for Josè who don’t want to use this 😞19 hours ago, (PS4)bauer5266 said:Well, it's terrible at best. I have players quitting the game left and right because of these changes.
It takes us 6-8x the amount of time to do anything in the menus now, chatting in game is now time consuming, modding takes more time and 2 hands now.
Why are our quick shortcut keys gone? (Triangle, Square etc to be able to move around efficiently.)
No more Triangle in the arsenal to quick select, have to wait for the cursor to float to the next object, drag and drop is a PC thing, we don't use a mouse so why do we even have this feature?
Chat must be highlighted to move up and down in it, I use that chat 24/7 as I run an Alliance and need to moderate the chat so now my work is doubled just trying to read everything.
Must now use 2 hands to scroll up and down in menus like Options, when before you could just keep pressing down and the menu would go with you.
Lastly, I have motion sickness and this game has never triggered it before, but now with the floating menu cursor gliding everywhere and not snapping directly to menu items I am triggered nonstop now.
Proposed Fix:
Give us an option to turn this new cursor feature on and off in the Options menu please. Bare minimum give us an option to instantly snap the cursor everywhere we want it to go using the D-pad, not floating it gently over because that wastes time.
Link to my forum about this:17 hours ago, (XB1)N4G4z said:Xbox player here, yeah the new UI is very very very very very bad for controller users, we loose a lot of time on basic stuff now, it is really a pain in the a*s and I'm very upset about the idea of playing with this crappy UI until it's getting fixed
But why would you even change it ? Who among the controller users complained about it ? Never saw anyone complaining...
17 hours ago, (PS4)CaptainForehead said:I love this game, but the UI has turned from quick, smooth & intuitive on a PS4 controller, to slow, awkward & frustrating. I'm posting when I had my sights set on an evenings gaming. That frustrating 🙂
It's a significant barrier to play.
Please give us the option to choose
17 hours ago, (PS4)HaloPrime97 said:This is the first time for me writing something in this forum. Normally I was always fine with all the changes you guys made (except the removal of the Raids. If there are laggy Eidolons, why can they stay but not the Raids? Nevermind tho)
Sorry for my bad English, but I'm really really really disappointed right now.
I never had such problems with a controller before. The cursor is really awful.
At this point I don't even want to play anymore, tbh. I just log in and log out, until it gets fixed.
The former UI was perfectly fine. I don't even get, why you suddenly wanted to change it.
Of course, progress is great and it's nice, that you try new stuff.
But so far I never saw anyone complaining about the UIs. Why change something good into... This... Horrible new thing?
I feel bad for complaining, but it's just really awful. :^(
I really hope you change it back soon.
16 hours ago, (PS4)Sunday_Dawn said:i dont think ill be logging back in till this is fixed if i wanted a cursor i would be playing the PC version as it is now is slow and clunky navigation take forever having to now hover over somthing to open sub catagorys then move over to that and select it we are not PC gamers so why give a mouse pointer and not allow us to use a mouse do the same to PC players make it so they dont have the cursor and have to navigae with just arrow key is a like situation
16 hours ago, (PS4)jaegerbombtastic said:Guys, pretty sure Megan said they can’t go back, and that they can only go forward. So I guess a toggle option is not a thing.
Which is upsetting. I’m literally terrified of modding my gear or fashion framing since my new cursor skips and jumps (yes, I have adjusted speed..), and I’m afraid I’ll hit the wrong thing.
That, and it’s so incredibly slow.
DE, I’m disappointed in you. I’m disappointed you forced this on console. I can only hope you figure out a way to please everybody, because I really don’t want to quit a game I love.
I haven't edited these in any way, other than to pack them into a multiquote and paste them here. You can even dig through that thread I gave you (twice) and find them yourself. It's not that hard.
Please bother to actually look at a source (and read a post) before being dismissive?
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5 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:
That's a lot of words to simply say you can't corroborate your side of the argument...
What was that about ad hominem? Fine, I'll bite.
5 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:You are basing your sample on a single source, wherein the data is heavily biased towards a single outcome.
Says the one using a single source himself, from the platform least effected by the change, a source that cannot be sorted in any way to make the data relevant, as I already stated; your own source cannot corroborate your argument because we don't know how many controller players there are related to kb/m users, though it's likely for gamepad players to be the minority on the PC platform.
5 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:The thread isn't a praise us thread. It's a tell us what's wrong thread, by nature, you aren't going to get many positively raving posts.
Wrong; the thread is a feedback thread, it does not require that input be positive and negative. I also said;
6 hours ago, WolvenEdge said:The vast majority have been less than charitable (maybe three posts that come to mind saying they liked this particular change, out of more than two hundred. A little over one percent), and this is only the main thread; the Art, Animation, and UI (oh dear, where shall we report on the UX?) section is practically clogged with further threads of the same leaning (hint; almost universally disliked) on the same subject. The Reddit threads aren't any better.
So no. I don't have a single source, and the entire Art, Animation, and UI section isn't solely there for complaining, as there are happy threads as well.
Just not about this. Welcome to the land of having used the wrong term, and, again, of having not actually read my posts, sir.6 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:
And on the next episode of Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics.... I've already covered that this data is not specific enough to show the change in demographic required to support either of our points, especially as it is of the platform least affected by the changes at hand. Repeating a dead argument isn't going to help your case.
6 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:There's no correlation between your evidence and [your] statement
This one I'll need to take a bit of time on. I have a thread to dig through again, and a rather large multiquote to set up.
6 hours ago, MillbrookWest said:As an additional aside: Resorting to ad hominem, might i add, shows a lack of integrity. The strawman nature of the posts was to avoid the rather obvious generalisations you've added in your posts (as i made similar with some hyperbolic remarks). But clearly, this update is somewhat personal for you...
Ooh, shots fired.
So pointing out argument flaws and mistakes is now ad hominem? Are you sure this is a stance you want to take, Mr. UX? Meanwhile, accusing me of a lack of integrity is ad hominem; the definition of attacking the person, not the argument. If you wish to address my use of sarcasm, then feel free to do so directly.
This update is far from personal, as I myself use mouse and keyboard; as I have stated multiple times in multiple threads. If I neglected to state such before in this thread, then that would indeed be my bad.Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a very long multiquote to set up. I shall return.
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26 minutes ago, MillbrookWest said:
-snip-
Point on UI vs UX. I've taken game design classes in the past, and User Interface was used to refer to both... apparently a mistake that even leading magazines on the subject make. =w= Doesn't actually matter, as the UI was changed as well; the button prompts for the now-nonexistant shortcuts were removed from the Arsenal, as a quick example, which is indeed part of a broken/removed ux feature. The semantic skirmish is tiring, you are hanging tightly onto technicality, even though you make it perfectly clear that you do indeed understand my post in spite of these 'glaring issues'. Thank you.
My point still stands. For those statistics to be perfectly relevant (in the case of the steam player statistic) you would also need to know how many people were playing with gamepads of various sorts, and the number of people who left as proportionate to both kb/m users and gamepad users. As an overall, the change is minimal, but observable (around May 16th, the peaks become far more rounded, and the lower player count drops below the 60k line for the first time since March on the chart)... but as the statistics cannot be perfectly relevant to the target audience, the overall drop can be considered moot, even though it may otherwise have made my point.
What I cannot find, however, are statistics on the number of Xbone or PS4 players in such a format. Nearly every player that I have seen post on the forum is less than happy about it, and either implies or outright states that they are leaving the game, if not for good, then until the UI/X is fixed. For completely accurate data, one would have to be able to sort out what portion of players post on the forums, and then, taking into account the numbers of positive and negative feedback posts, along with the threats of what amounts to boycott, extrapolate that proportion out over the entire fandom.
I'm not up to that, as it's nearing midnight here, so I'll take the lazy route.
For my evidence submitted; read the forum thread I noted in my first post on the matter. For convenience, I will post it again here;
The vast majority have been less than charitable (maybe three posts that come to mind saying they liked this particular change, out of more than two hundred. A little over one percent), and this is only the main thread; the Art, Animation, and UI (oh dear, where shall we report on the UX?) section is practically clogged with further threads of the same leaning (hint; almost universally disliked) on the same subject. The Reddit threads aren't any better.
This update was handled poorly, and an unknown amount of players have left, the majority of them likely having played on console, where I have no data other than forum posts, of which it appears to be the majority.
No one has died, no existences have ended, no harm has been rendered other than to pocketbooks and pride; any further is entirely a strawman on your part.
Do you find my presentation satisfactory, sir?
I'm going to bed. -
2 minutes ago, MillbrookWest said:
-snip-
Read. My. Post. 'recieved the broken UI update', not 'recieved the new UI.' I choose my wording quite carefully. Address my point, please;
This does not change that we, the PC gamers, have been telling them for almost a month that this change needs to be submitted completely, or not at all; the hybrid state, as it is now, has already driven players away, and will continue to do so until it is corrected.
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1 minute ago, ChivalricDeath said:
"Venom"? You don't talk like that all the time do you?
Only when livid.
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2 minutes ago, ChivalricDeath said:
I know that everyone is really upset right now, but just take a deep breathe and relax, it's literally been less than an entire day and everyone that works on warframe is most likely asleep. They will see the feedback and make correct adjustments. From past teases of the new UI is looks like snapping between items is probably broken so it's stuck on cursor mode. Just relax and they will make a public statement regarding this issue later today (it's Wednesday for me). Just chill and let them know as nicely as possible, that you really don't like the changes. And if you guys stop playing until it's fixed that's fine, it should only take a day or 2 tops.. I hope 🍸
We, the PC players, have been doing this for almost a month already.
They didn't listen, and have now inflicted the same upon console players, with almost none of the glaring issues addressed.I do believe they deserve every ounce of venom we spit.
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30 minutes ago, Jimmypdp said:
ANNNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD.... Told you so???
Doesn't fix the problem that's present now; they should have somewhat finished their UI overhaul before giving it to us for testing, rather than giving us the worst section of the UI overhaul without any redeeming features to make it tolerable. They could have listened to the feedback they were given, rather than inflicting the incomplete and frankly incompetent UI upon the console players afterward... with none of the major glaring issues fixed. Even the bone they threw us with the D-pad being reactivated might as well have been poisoned; it's in shambles, only responds half the time, and even then only in specific circumstances of specific menus.
Swallow your extended syllable, and beat thy own brow first, sir. To quote the person you so magnanimously dismissed;
Quote...this really should have been released as a full package.
Now run along, those of us with some amount of investment in the matter at hand have business to discuss with Digital Extremes.
I can hand the book to just anyone, can I?
in General Discussion
Posted
I may have made a mistake.