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Slaviar

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Posts posted by Slaviar

  1. On 24.02.2018 at 10:18 AM, (PS4)KingGuy420 said:

    People seem to forget that they're the size of an indie team producing one of the largest games around on 3 different platforms. But yeah "forgot" while juggling a thousand things isn't a good excuse, I guess.

    Digital Extremes hire over 200 people. Warframe is their flag project so I would expect large chunk of these people to work on it. So no, they are not some minor indie dev.

  2. 4 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

    As far as humor goes, it's rather easy to not say something that will offend someone.

    Basically, before you tell a joke, ask yourself a few quick questions.

    • Is this joke predicated on skin tone?
    • Is this joke predicated on sex or gender?
    • Is this joke being made in a public space that contains hundreds to thousands of people from across the planet?
    • Is this joke predicated on someones mental capacities?
    • Is this joke about rape or murder?

    If the answer was yes to any of those; don't tell the joke.

    In other words, half of best jokes go to hell. Got it.

  3. On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    why are you still using good as if that existed in warframes universe? again, no one talks about that in the game because the concept may have been lost.

    Are lost or could be lost? Make up your mind.

    Maybe they don't talk about it because Grineer screaming they are evil or Lotus saying we're good guys would be worse writing than any operator line?

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    yes it is, for them its good.

    They attacked defenseless colony and murdered all but one inhabitants. Not to mention these colonists were oppressed by the very same people Grineer were. You are telling me this is fine because it serves Grineer goals?

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    it was alad and his team the ones who experimented with infestation, not the whole corpus.

    True. But Corpus leadership consists of individuals of same ruthless mindsets.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    Those were the orokin mainly.

    And Nef Anyo.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    its not mindless if it tries to convince you of joining them. They also behave like animals, since they are nothing more than that, does that mean animals need to be eradicated for not being as intelligent?

    Unnatural bioweapon which twists its victims into its slaves, most likely in agonizing pain and devours everything in its path. Why shouldn't it be eradicated?

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    again, good for you doesnt mean good for everyone, the moment you understand good and evil dont really exist we will be able to argue this correctly.

    Good and evil exist. They are human concepts but are what differentiates us from animals.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    Yeah you dont understand anything, wrong is not synonim of evil, you can do a good thing that can be a wrong thing and viceversa.

    You also dont understand the difference between justify and explain, good and evil are not inherent in the universe they are concepts humans created, that doesnt mean you can do whatever you want or whatever crime you want to do in todays society. 

    The moment in which you take things about a game out of context to real life saying the other part could justify henious crimes is when you need to realize you are doing something clearly wrong here.

    Laws and rules exist for coexistance, thats what they do, that doesnt mean good and evil should neccessarily exist outside of our current society, because they dont.

    Should've used word 'act'.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    still we condemned them to the suffering they bear, see? this is the clear example of what i said before, we did the right thing to preserve the system, that doesnt mean we did a good thing because it wasnt good, we did the cruel thing and condemned them to suffer for the rest of their lifes.

    We did evil thing to stop even greater evil from happening. Sometimes good people have to do evil things.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    useless evidence, not confirmed.

    As valid as any piece of lore about Orokin era.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    you wont know that would you? that never happened, its impossible to know, what really happened is that they still suffer from their defects, we denied them the oportunity to fix themselves and maybe change.

    Don't be naive. If Regor would create indpendent Grineer he would deem this experiment a failure, kill his creations and start over. And if he didn't other Grineer would. Along with him.

    Grineer are totalitarian empire. No free will is allowed. All must submit.

    Sorry but if it isn't epitome of pure evil, a totalitarian empire with no regards to individual, where you are not citizen but worker in a hive, where every single unit is programmed before birth to be blindly obedient and hate everything outside I don't know what is. Even if there is no good and evil but shades of grey this is as dark shade of grey as possible.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    Well those are currently abandoned in the law system, when you are judged you are not judged based on if what you did was good or evil, you are judged based on set rules. Thats why there is an important difference between legal and good/legitimate.

    These set rules tend to follow general concepts of good and evil. You know, murder is wrong, theft is wrong, hurting others in general is wrong.

    On 30.01.2018 at 6:20 PM, mstriker said:

    Also, those can be perfectly abandoned in the warframes universe, each faction just fights for its own interests, no good and evil, just different factions fighting for supremacy.

    Different evils.

    Tenno protect Cetus. Sure, we must protect Orokin tower and sentient remains from Grineer but we could extort Ostrons for protection money. Yet Konzu doesn't behave like we are his oppressors when he talks to us.

    Beside, there are many examples of good in Warframe universe. Steel Meridian protects colonist and helps defective Grineer to escape - even those who will not join their ranks.

    Perrin Sequence takes large financial risks to thwart Corpus plans. They could just keep being Corpus and make money. But instead they fight in a crusade for better world.
    Failure of Animo project had to be finacial loss for them and yet they invested into it so Tenno could stop it. Glast risked a lot for Neewa. Sure, he had Tenno on his side but if for any reason we failed it would be his end.

  4. 13 minutes ago, HadronVictorioso said:

    One shouldn't be a snobby prick who thinks I haven't...

    I hate all of the crossbows that currently exist in game. When it comes to crossbows, I like what the OP has suggested - something similar to an Arbalest. A heavy, single-shot crossbow. Not a repeater / automatic, not a burst, a single-shot sniper-style weapon.

    None of them feel good. None of them feel strong. They feel weak as piss.

    One shouldn't have extremely high standards for weapons...

    Shall we continue this little game?

    Anyway, Attica and Zhuge have great stats. Attica combines high damage, good crit and high ammo efficiency while Zhuge is great crit/status hybrid.

    Also, Attica happens to have strong disposition while Zhuge neutral.

    And I too would love more conventional, single target crossbow with cool reload animation.

  5. 51 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    We get it, beating the bosses multiple times in a row is needed for the grind. We got it the first time. Why do you keep repeating it?

    Its not relevant. It's not even the problem.

    Also, I personally know of very few games that allow you to skip the grind. Perhaps we just play different MMOs.

    Maybe.

    And I stand by what I said, it is relevant. You're free to disagree with me but I believe we wouldn't have some problems if it was paid game.

    I repeat myself because often you do not seem to understand me correctly.

  6. 6 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Then you'd still be wrong.

    FTP games don't generally allow players to skip the grind. They just sell stuff to make the grind smoother/faster. Story items are almost always locked until you've progressed enough.

    - but again, not relevant.

    Some allow to skip, some - to speed it up. Either way, they need that grind.

  7. 59 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Actually, I just looked up Gwent via Google. I thought you said the Witcher had a card game in it, as a minigame. (some RPGs have card minigames in them- Fallout: New Vegas for example has Caravan)

    As for Gwent, I can't say as I'm not familiar with it. It just came out this year huh? Anyway, whatever you thought, you thought wrong.

    Actually, I was referring to you apparently not playing any game I've listed.

    1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Also, I am not looking to add time travel or simulation, those were merely ideas on how I would change the story to have things make more sense. Pay closer attention.

    (What's really weird is completing the same assassination mission over and over- it'd be less weird if it was a simulation, not more.)

    Why do you keep mentioning this game's payment model? Again, not relevant in any way shape or form.

    It is relevant. F2P games need repetitive grind to make people wish to skip it. It creates said contradiction between gameplay and story, like repeatedly killing same boss. If Warframe was paid game such things would not be necessary.

  8. 1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    You're comparing minigames to the core gameplay.

    So you didn't. Thought so.

    1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Stop repeating yourself, I read it just fine the first time. What matters to you and what matters to me are different, clearly.

    I never once suggested Warframes stop being purchasable, so stop being ridiculous.

    Also, improvements to the quality of a game are never strictly "necessary", just like aesthetic touches are never necessary. But they're always making the tilesets and enemies look better ain't they?

    Was it necessary to add Captura? Was it necessary to allow us to play the soundtracks from different worlds on the Somachord? Was it necessary to have a personal quarters? Quit talking about necessity. It's not relevant or important that something be necessary.

    Apparently. Though what matters to you seems weird to me. You are looking to overly complicate stuff by adding unnecessary weirdness in form of time traveling which would mess up lore even more. All so repeatedly killing bosses/redoing mission in grind heavy (!) F2P becomes part of lore. Or alternatively making it weird by making it simulation.

    I'm trying to understand your point of view as I'm all for immersion but I just fail to see how would these changes help it.

  9. 18 minutes ago, mstriker said:

    How did they contribute to evil either? 

    Theres no good nor evil here, thats a good thing, corpus profit of everything because thats good for them, they dont care about other races and they only took the arms to defend themselves against the grineer and the infection.

     

    Grineer are created with that instinct, and that doesnt make them bad, again, the same happens, if you ask a grineer who is good and who is bad he would say that corpus and tenno are the evil ones, they only do what they are commanded to do and those other factions kill thousands of them.

     

    The infection is like a bunch of animals, they hunt for reproduction instinct, that doesnt make them evil either.

     

    We dont know the reasons behind the sentients wanting to destroy the other races.

    How they contributed to evil?

    Grineer exterminated entire colonies - we have proof of one, namely Baro's kin. They are actively trying to destroy Cetus. Is any of this good?

    Corpus brainwash they people, experimented on Infestation, leading to Mutalist strain, and kidnapped children. Rainbows and sunshine, huh?

    Infestation is mindless disease. Means it should be eradicated.

    Your turn. What good they did?

    31 minutes ago, mstriker said:

    Good and evil is relative, the vision most humans have about good and evil is not objective. Tenno may have done good things but the bad things far outweigh the good ones, we may have helped some innocents but we also condemned the grineer to their demise under the cloning defects, betrayed who created us in favor of a genocidal race and we still kill thousands of enemies, maybe even innocents, because you wont think those mechanic grineers that fix the structures on ceres are killing machines would you? Did you even care if he was or not innocent when slaying those?

    Relativism will allow to justify most heinous crimes. That's why we need good and evil. Because otherwise nothing is wrong.

    We stopped Regor's research because it would lead to stronger, smarter Grineer who would posses same hatred.

    Every Grineer, mechanic or not, is created with same blind obedience to Queens and same harted for non - grineer. Innocent Grineer are quickly executed or defect, usually to join Steel Meridian.

    40 minutes ago, mstriker said:

    Also remember that grineer, corpus and infested are what they are now thanks to the tenno, if we didnt slay the orokin, grineer wouldnt have taken by storm the system, corpus wouldnt have taken arms and infestation wouldnt be roaming around, and that kiled more innocents than the ones we saved throughout the game. 

    Hunhow implies Tenno were mind controlled by sentients.

     

    44 minutes ago, mstriker said:

    So yeah, i stand by what i said, there is no good nor evil, everyone did evil things, and even good things, like helping us against the sentients or trying to fix their races illness and suffering (and we massacred and killed them for that). 

    Only person who helped us against Sentients was Alad. Grineer and Corpus as whole never did.

    And again, curing Grineer will only lead to way more suffering.

    45 minutes ago, mstriker said:

    Just fight for what you think is right tenno, at this point worrying about such old concepts that predate the orokin empire like good and evil is pointless.

    The day such concepts are abandoned will be beginning of an end of mankind.

  10. 6 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    So your logic is "it can't be an RPG, because then every game like it would be an RPG, and that's a lot!"

    Stunning.

    Sigh.

    Is Witcher 3 card game because there's Gwent or racing because there is horse racing?

    Out of curiosity, did you actually play any real RPGs? Like Planescape: Torment, VtM: Bloodlines, Arcanum, KoTOR, Dragon Age: Origins?

    6 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    You mean aside from the fact that it's one of the main topics of discussion and literally in the title of the thread? Gee, I wonder.

    And I already said you will be able to alter these. It doesn't because it lacks impact. Maybe it will affect Tenno's personality in the future but now it doesn't so stop acting like you are losing anything or are forced to live with bad choices.

    Actually, being forced to live with consequences of your choices would make them much more important...

    6 hours ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    It absolutely is. I can think of at least two ways.

    Have every mission be replayable as a simulation in the datascape, something we already know is possible. The other I've already stated and is admittedly far less plausible at this time. (time travel)

    I don't care if DE will give Lotus few lines to tell you it's simulation upon replaying mission. But it's completely unnecessary.

    And some things, like buying frame ASAP won't change because it's F2P. If it bothers you so much buy frame after doing quests.

     

  11. 3 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Well, let's look at a few definitions shall we?

    "a game in which players take on the roles of imaginary characters who engage in adventures, typically in a particular computerized fantasy setting."

    "a role-playing video game is a video game genre where the player controls the actions of a character (and/or several party members) immersed in some well-defined world."

    "The premise of many role-playing games tasks the player with saving the world, or whichever level of society is threatened. There are often twists and turns as the story progresses, such as the surprise appearance of estranged relatives, or enemies who become friends or vice versa. The game world tends to be set in a fantasy or science fiction universe, which allows players to do things they cannot do in real life and helps players suspend their disbelief about the rapid character growth."

    Sound effing familiar yet? I can't even believe this turned into a fullblown debate. What's next, you gonna tell me circles ain't round?

    No, I'll tell you I was expecting that "definition" and I have answer just for such occasion: by that logic every single game is RPG.

    But we are not in 90s anymore. Almost every game today uses some RPG features. Just because there's story, world saving or character progression doesn't make game an RPG.

    7 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    I'm not gonna repeat myself again. Those questions defined your character.

    Not every meaningful addition helps you in combat. Story doesn't help you in combat. BGM doesn't (well, unless you're playing as Octavia) and neither does a lot of the tiny little details that go into the tilesets to make them more appealing visually and more lifelike and immersive.

    But they're there, and the game is better with them. Same goes for those choices.

    I keep wondering why do you constantly bring it up.

    If alignment will shape Operators in any way we will be able to change it. If it will be lines chosen during TWW we will likely be able to change them too. You have nothing to worry about.

    22 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    No, but it should be. Quality gameplay breaks immersion as little as possible.

    True but it's not always possible.

    22 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Cool, I haven't heard that one. Could be a new Cephalon maybe.

    Not that magic time travel is that much of a stretch considering what Operators and Warframes can do. Seriously, what do you think this is, Call of Duty?

    I just think it's way more interesting than time travel. I don't like time traveling in fiction.

  12. 1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Little story so far. Focus on farming is definitely a huge part of RPGs so why you think that discounts it is beyond me. RPGs and TTP Shooters aren't mutually exclusive, just like RPGs and Platformers aren't mutually exclusive. To say a game is entirely this with "elements" of this is unnecessary. It's an MMORPG TTP Shooter. That's it.

    So yes, if your goal is convince me that Warframe isn't an RPG you do need to continue. Although you won't convince me, because you're wrong.

    This "so far" lasts for last five years. It took Warframe over two to get first true story quest.

    It's neither MMORPG or RPG. It has underdeveloped RPGs elements (story, leveling up) and lacks proper, persistent MMO world with dozens of players.

    RPG is usually story driven game with advanced character development system, usually reliant on leveling up. If it is combat/loot driven it still needs either RPG combat or combat heavily affected by RPG character progression.

    While Warframe is loot driven it lacks practically everything needed to be called RPG and lacks multitude of players in one instance so it can't be called MMO though it borrows from both genres.

    But I'd be happy to learn what in your opinion makes Warframe an RPG. Go on. Tell me.

    1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Many choices in many games are an illusion. Not in this one. Your choices define your character's morality. That already is something. It may not have any impact at present time on gameplay, but it did change something. So it mattered.

    So far alignment has exactly two effects on game, one being fancy badge on profile, another - Helminth dialogue. Both so minor they may as well not exist. We have no clue what it may affect in a future so for now yes, these choices are meaningless.

    1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    -and no, I understood what you said the first time. Gameplay and story, separate. I just don't see it that way. I see story as being a part of gameplay, so when the two don't match up... 

    Then you view it wrong. It's not Dark Souls where everything you did, including traveling to other player's games,  was indeed part of the world.

    1 hour ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    As for time travel, just a theory. Although at the very least it's been hinted at strongly. Or, well, not time travel necessarily but the ability to see many possible futures. Onkko seemed to have lived in some of those futures, seemed to have tried many times to find a future in which he could stay with his wife.

    I'd really like for more information about his deal. Perhaps when we're introduced to more of The Quills, his perception of time will be explained...

    A curious theory I've seen was about utilizing powerful computer to calculate several possible outcomes. Been a while since I read it so I don't recall details but sounds way better than space magic time travel.

  13. 3 minutes ago, Yhtmahyll said:

     

     I'd argue for the sake of it that Warframe is probably the most immersive MMO I've played while it still has main plotline, discounting sandbox games or old school MMORPG. The newer games put you in a hero position and acted like you're like that the whole time, while they are millions other of chosen ones running around. In Warframe other than the quests, you're supposedly just a mercenary and the real main characters are NPCs and bosses, especially back when operation events are mainly used to tell the story. Even then, all the previous cinematic quests have someone else you tagged along with and lead to the same outcome.

    And I feel like the way alerts, events or missions work make it fairly immersive than putting you in a spotlight. Although I'd guess it sells better with story heavy singleplayer experiences in the game, just don't take it too literally in terms of lore.

    I think it's because Warframe isn't really MMO. There are some elements but barring relays we don't have more than eight players per instance.

  14. 31 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    How is Warframe NOT an RPG?

    Let me see...

    Little story, focus on farming, shooter combat... Do I need to continue?

    Warframe is TPP shooter with MMORPG elements.

    31 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    How does what they've never done shape your expectations of what they will do? They'd never implemented an alignment system before either, but here it is. What else would the choices you make affect, if not the story and your character?

    Choices in games tend to be illusion. They are there but rarely have real effect on game, they usually change little in the long run.

    If you think about it, choices in TWW make little difference. Queen dies either way (either her body gives up or she's killed either by you or Teshin) and most other affect only alignment as they refer to backstory.

    31 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Fair point on the story being separate from the gameplay. Actually, you've just given me something else to stress about. How do we complete the same Assassination missions over and over again? Like, once someone's dead- they dead.

    I'm really hoping time travel is confirmed...sooner rather than later...things are just making less and less sense.

    Oh god...

    For hell-knows-which time: gameplay is separate from story. DE can't give you all parts at once because this is F2P game and they need to make you grind to push you towards buying stuff. It's that simple. Regor died once and I doubt lore wise we acquire frames by killing bosses.

    There is no time travel, just gameplay. But it seems you just got it into your head, that everything you do is part of story and it 100% happened.

    Well, sorry, it didn't. You can either accept it and move on or keep being unhappy by plot holes which exist only in your mind.

  15. 38 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Well I'm glad you think I'm "important for the game economy" but this isn't actually relevant to the topic. Or in any way "new information" to anybody.

    - and if buying Warframes makes the story stop making sense, I'd personally prefer to just obtain it normally through gameplay, no matter how tedious. If paying players regret paying, how long will they stay paying players?

    How many times do I have to repeat that it does not conflict with lore because you getting frame before quest is only gameplay mechanic? You don't break the story because it is seperate from gameplay. Or do you honestly believe that you actually killed Tyl Regor (at least) nine times?

    38 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    c46.gif

    How is Warframe an RPG?

    38 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Why would you doubt this? It's very possible.

    Because DE never ever even mentioned any choice made by players in quests or events?

    38 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Exactly what I'm worried about.

    At best. And again, we will have a way to change alignment. Maybe even through quest replays.

  16. 28 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Getting a Warframe before the quest in which you are supposed to obtain the Warframe is indeed a lore issue. Everything that happens storywise in the game is lore. Every bit of dialog, every cutscene, every quest.

    Where the heck did I get my Warframe from, if this is where I was supposed to have gotten it? Why do all the characters act as though I don't have it, as though it's something new?

    Some quests even have you obtain blueprints for parts and then build them in order to progress, with certain info being somehow built in to the parts (riddles on Mirage's parts for example) that allows you to progress in order to obtain the whole blueprint. How did I find Mirage before actually finding Mirage? It simply doesn't add up logically.

    Some people like to get new stuff ASAP. Because Warframe is grind heavy F2P game such people are important for game economy and as result they can buy most of new stuff for plats when it comes out.

    Sure, lore wise no Tenno got Limbo before unearthing his parts but not everything that happens in game is lore. Especially not in F2P.

    34 minutes ago, (PS4)Carnatus said:

    Also, it's not just about changing alignment. I want to change my answers. From a roleplaying perspective, I've shaped a large part of my operator's character during that one quest. "What you choose will define you more than anything" remember?

    - and if replaying the quest isn't the same as actually starting over, going back to an earlier point in the story and actually making different decisions...which would be possible in literally every other game, because they actually allow you to create and delete characters thus starting your game over...then it's simply not enough.
     

    You really shouldn't treat Warframe as an RPG because it isn't one. I doubt any new quest will take into account any choice made during older quests. At best alignment will influence some dialogues or some parts of Tenno's personality.

    Alignment is likely not possible to change because it has no influence on game. When it will finally have some use we will get some way to change it.

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