Rankii
-
Posts
492 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by Rankii
-
-
Just going to repost this here where it's also relevant. Though if this update is any indication they don't actually read any of this unless it asks for a nerf.
-
Quote
-
Enthrall cap for thralled enemies increased from 4 to 7.
- Developer Note: We listened to the feedback that 4 was too few, so we’ve buffed the number to match Nekros’ max Shadows.
-
Enthrall cap for thralled enemies increased from 4 to 7.
Players have also wanted the thralls to NOT IMMEDIATELY DIE IF ANOTHER PLAYER SHOOTS THEM.
Yes, more thralls are nice. Though a nice even number like ten would have been personally preferable since unlike Nekros you can't heal or resummon them. But none of that matters when someone can just follow you around and shoot your thralls like a petty little bastard. This is even more baffling since every other skill in revenant's kit is only made useful when interacting with Enthrall or the resulting thralls. Why is this ability so underpowered when it's the backbone of the kit?
-
Quote
-
Danse Macabre energy cost increased from 12.5 to 20 energy per second.
- Developer Note: In keeping with changes we've made to Warframes in the past to deter from the "set it and forget" approach, we have increased the energy per second on Danse Macabre. We are hoping that with Enthrall's cap increase you can benefit from more overshield pickups with Danse Macabre. We’re always looking to iterate on your feedback, please leave yours in the dedicated Revenant feedback megathread!
-
Danse Macabre energy cost increased from 12.5 to 20 energy per second.
Again, we can't benefit from the absolutely tiny overshield pickup if all thralls die the moment another player enters the area and blasts everything indiscriminately. Increase the overshield to AT LEAST 100 because that current pickup may as well be a sticky note saying "IOU, One(1) Useful ability" for all it's worth. One basic grunt with a cleaver on Ani will wipe away that pickup's shieldworth in an instant. On top of that, the energy cost being increased with no corresponding power increase is just asinine. This means that on higher level content Revenant users are now less inclined to use the ability since you're spending precious energy that could be used to channel Life Strike through a weapon on a skill that doesn't have the power or durability to matter (this also somewhat applies to Reave, but I've already given up on that being worthwhile). Energy pickups aren't as plentiful as you guys seem to think they are. Anyways the skill is still "Set it, and forget it" but now it refers to setting it down and forgetting about actually getting anything out of it.
-
-
2 hours ago, Ruison said:
- Eidolons don't shoot beams(that I know of) Sentients do!
The first eidolon (terralyst, I think) does fire beams. has a sweeping attack where it does, but they aren't continuous.
- Its hard to hit anything with it unless you are on a flat plane.
If it hit in a sphere it really would be busted. The beams have a respectable range so it's really a matter of positioning, which is fair considering how strong the beams are.
-
1
-
43 minutes ago, Kothophed said:
Why I like Revenant
Unlike many here, I like inbuilt synergies. I liked Saryn 2.0 for that reason, and was sad to see that go. For that reason, I have liked Revenant since he was first revealed. For those who dislike such synergies, there are plenty of 'frames that lack them. Revenant is currently the only frame where every ability synergizes with every other. Not every frame has to be for everyone.
My Issues with Revenant.
- Passive: Actually fine where it's at for me. Lack of shield gating hurts though.
-
Enthrall: This was hyped as key to his identity and playstyle, but is his weakest ability.
- While many compare this ability to Nyx's Mind Control, I see it as more analogous to Nekros's Shadows. Revenant was adverised as an army-maker, and every one of his other abilities points to it. Look at the update ad, it shows Revenant commanding his thralls, not T-posing. While I know I am comparing a 1 to an ult, Nekros's Shadows are also stronger, and benefit from Shield of Shadows. If Nekros is not causing lag issues with 15 minions, neither should Revenant.
- Another key difference is both Nyx and Nekros can scale in a way Enthrall cannot. If a stronger enemy spawns, Nyx can abandon her current minion and Control it, likewise Shadows replaces killed minions with the strongest enemies available. However, when Revenant tries to cast Enthrall on a new enemy while at his max, the game prevents him.
- Lastly, the DPS effect created by dead thralls is seldom useful. Thralls often die to friendly fire within seconds, and Revenant needs better return on investment when they do.
-
Mesmer Skin: As Mogamu said, it's almost good. Almost.
- Cannot be recast when active. This what everyone wants, for every castable buff, because it makes play smoother and less tedious.
- Secondly, Enthrall should either automatically cast on stunned enemies. If not, they should at least give a clear indicator, both so the Revenant player see them more clearly in crowded halls and so courteous squadmates can avoid killing them.
-
Reave: Kinda sucks.
- The visuals can best be decried as janky.
- It costs too much and casts too slowly to function as a "panic button"
-
Danse Macabre: What should be the payoff for his other abilities is instead best used in isolation.
- It almost synergizes beautifully with Mesmer Skin, with Mesmer Skin providing much needed defense for Danse's offensive power. However, you cannot Enthrall stunned enemies while in Danse. It is all the more aggravating as Danse uses up Thralls. This feels frustrating and broken, as well as counter to Revenant's theme of synergy.
My Proposed Fixes
- Passive: Add Shield Gating
- Enthrall-25 Energy: Casting on an enemy will turn that enemy into a thrall for the duration, recasting will reset duration on all thralls. Revenant can have 15 thralls active at a time, recasting when at 15 will release the weakest enemy (lowest level/weakest type). On death, a Thrall will drop an orb that gives 25 overshields to Revenant and his allies instead of the DPS column thingy. If it has more than 50% of its duration left, it will refund 50% of Enthrall's energy cost.
- Mesmer Skin-50 Energy: Can be recast when active for 25 energy. Each stack has a .5 second grace period after use. Stunned enemies will be automatically Enthralled if Revenant is below his Thrall cap, or marked with an indicator if he is at it.
- Reave-50 Energy: Cast time is halved, looks like a Vomvalyst charge wreathed in smoke. Passing through Thralls increases their damage output instead of damaging them. Both drain and buff are affected by Strength.
- Danse Macabre-25 Energy: Enthrall can be cast on stunned enemies while Dansing. If the Devs feel the need to nerf this, please nerf range as opposed to Strength or Efficiency. He needs Strength to be able to function as a CC, and his energy economy is somewhat tenuous as is. I am not advocating a nerf, however his 4 is among the strongest room-clears where it is now.
TL;DR-Revenant's abilities don't suck because of synergy, they suck because they suck. Keep/improve the synergy, remove the suck.
This guy's got the right idea several times over.
-
2
-
Playing with him more I have more to say that will most likely be ignored because feedback has like a 1% chance of actually being read and a .005% chance of being considered in any regard other than "lol wut?"
Passvie: neat but one of those ones that's useless becuase it's a worst-case-scenario when it activates. I understand you're going for the same effect of depleting an eidolon's shields but a knockdown is a paltry substitute for a #*!%huge wave of magnetic energy. I say either a wave of knockback (too strong, and annoying, in my opinion) or something like a wave of knockdown followed by quick shield recharge.
1- bump the limit up to 16 with the caveat that you can only personally enthrall 4, the rest come from y our thralls attacking others. They're actually less aggressive than before becoming enthralled, so again that boost in aggression would be nice along with making them immune to ally player fire so that they aren't wiped out either accidentally or as intentionally. Aside from that the pillars are nice, but ultimately useless against anything that isn't a trash mob. On the plains my thralls aren't aggressive, but they'll wander off in random directions and then I'll never see them again. Hopefully a bug.
2- Charges are nice but I seem to be getting more stuns or resisted damage than the charge counter indicates. I would appreciate it if we could get this changed to a duration based skill since not only would it make things easier to figure out but you don't get your charges wasted on random turrets and that one god-damned sniper outside your range that keeps just shooting you from around a corner. Serious #*!% snipers in regards to Mesmer Skin. With a rake. Also tone down the fog or make it easier to see through. I feel like I'm back in college with how cloudy things get sometimes, but I'm not getting a contact high.
3- Why is this hydroid's 2 but with a wall? I get what you're trying to go for but visually this ability is just unpleasant, and functionally in any situation where you'd need to use it the windup will get you killed anyways. The fog wall makes it difficult to figure out when to stop and since distance scales with duration that means a lot of ramming into walls while that bombard lubes up the missile for your freshly-exposed backside. If you want my personal opinion (you don't but too bad), this should be more like a blink akin to how an eidolon escapes, moving you from one point to another (wherever you're aiming?) with the disappearance and reappearance sapping health and shields from nearby enemies. You can even swap hydroid animations and use the one for his puddle instead if you're worried about creating new assets.
4- Please Don't touch this ability, functionally. Yes there's some people running this on hydron for those "crazy long spinz" but even after ten minutes in MOT this will get you killed by whatever isn't killed (see: things that aren't trash mobs), if you even spend half a second without mesmer skin up. Visually, though, it's really lacking. Memes aside, I'm not sure how to change this visually in a way that doesn't look dumb, but I feel like if you can make a flesh robot ninja pirate operated by an immortal wizard loli, you can figure out a way to make this look good. In spite of my planet-sized ball of pessimism, I believe in you Canadian Drunkards.
Also let me adopt Nakak. She's too good for Cetus. Also let me glass Cetus.
-
2
-
-
After playing him for a while I have a few complaints. Mainly about Enthrall and how it's basically useless in a squad. It faces the same issue Nyx's mind control had for a while in that by the time you get it rolling your allies will just mow your controlled crew down. This is made especially bad because all of Revenant's other abilities work with Enthrall in some way, meaning that you lose functionality when playing in a group. Then there's the issue of numbers: you can't have many thralls at a time. I get that you don't want to make Nyx even less played but for as much demonstration as the abilitiy got during dev streams and, again, how much it functions with other parts of Revenant's kit, you wold think that you could have more than a few guys fighting for you. On top of that, enthralled enemies, who spread their status through damage, are suspiciously passive. Thralls don't seem all that interested in fighting, and are more content to just hang around me while i murder everything myself. I have a few suggestions:
1: Make thralls immune to friendly fire from other players. This means that a saryn won't just passively kill your crew, or that one guy can't go around killing your thralls for a giggle so that you actually have thralls to work with.
2: Increase the number of thralls significantly. While this might be seen as encroaching on nyx's territory of mass crowd control, i argue that isn't very much different in how it happens. Nyx causes everyone to attack at once, has no upper limit on enemies affected (as long as they're in range), and happens all at once. Revenant spreads outward in the most violent recreation of Pay it Forward. With that in mind, the spread should be at least a comfortable 20 so that you don't have your enthrall squandered on a handful of grunts.
3: Increase thrall aggression. This one isn't all that complex: just make them more likely to attack. Since that's how the skill works.
Mesmer skin is fine, but it's hard to tell when it's active since it's just a thing on your shoulder. Making it a bit more visually obvious would help.
Reave could stand to be less of a literal wall as I notice that traveling rectangle of fog and can't help but think that someone fudged some texturing somewhere. Maybe soften the edges a bit.
For Danse Macabre, my suggestion is purely cosmetic preference, but I'd really appreciate it if I could somehow use the beta animation (meaning the slowed down Inaros one) because at some point I'd like to make a fabulous Revenant and reenact this. You'll know what part:
Anyways that's basically it. Quest was alright aside from seeing Nakaks' face (never again, please), and for some reason RNG ripped my pants off and gave me a below-the-belt kiss so I had him up and running faster than I thought. 7/10, needs more sentient big-katana.
-
I miss content.
-
At any decent level WoF is complete S#&$, and with the range nerf it loses the CC it at least had with Firequake. Unfortunately people will cry more often to nerf a frame than to buff another so now here we are: where the true meta is to drag down anything that outperforms you.
-
I don't give a #*!% about the helmet but calling umbra an upgrade is dumb. Yes howl ignores LoS but takes longer to cast (you already have less mod slots to work with, do you really want to lose another for Natural Talent?). Yes you have umbra mods but they require a #*!%TON of credits and endo to max (and additional forma applied to the non umbra-polarity slots), and require all of them to be equipped in order to not be generally downgrades to their non umbra versions (and the damage bonus apples to less than 1% of the enemies in the game currently so it's super specialized). Yes there's polarities for those mods but they're fixed and if you forma them away you can't get them back. Yes the frame fights when you're in potato mode but you lose out on having an invincible frame while in potato mode. Umbra is a sidegrade, if anything.
-
Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Endgame viable is a matter of opinion.
Well I meant more that warframe doesn't really have an endgame
that isn't an economics simulatorjust strong weapons. -
Just now, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Bottom line... Toxic lash is very endgame viable. Anyone that doesn't think so is welcome to their opinion, just as im welcome to mine.
For my playstyle, toxic lash is tremendously useful. Especially with contagion cloud... Which has a litteral built in aoe that any weapon in the game can benefit from.
*As long as the weapon it's applied to is already "endgame" viable.
-
1 minute ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:
Take any weapon... Literally any gun... And add punch through. Nuff said
He still literally addressed the thing you said in the same sentence you attacked. You tried though.
-
11 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
But this is EXACTLY why she's much better now. You hit armor FIRST and since spores spread that proc better than you can with Miasma, it's much better now and more useful for your team due to silly armor scaling. It makes logical sense to switch it around like they did.
Except for the fact that Corrosive Projection exists and has existed since forever and is usually the standard for exactly the reason you posted.
-
11 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
Funny how quickly you replied...kinda proves the point that you aren't really looking at evidence if it contradicts your pre-conceived narrative 😉
You don't take sub-par weapons to long runs, but that's not really an argument against Saryn's effectiveness. Fact is, she stripped armor and halved health of all enemies on that field, which GREATLY speeds up killing. Moreso than bringing most other frames like Zephyr or "insert any frame but Octavia or sonar-stacking Banshee".
Again, explain to us why you think a frame that reliably strips armor and halves health isn't good...because she does that incredibly reliably.
No I just didn't feel like sitting through *seventeen minutes of camping when I can already see where it's going and it's still playing in another tab. Yes the damage is great: nobody's said otherwise. But I've seen this build before. I HAVE effectively the same build and I'm telling you Lash and Molt are pretty meh now. Everything you're saying about stripping armor and halving health were a thing before. Miasma triggered corrosive, and spores spread viral everywhere. Trying to play those up as new, while posting a video of someone using a handful of camping tricks isn't proving anything.
It's not that I don't know how to use her, it's that I know exactly how to use her and she sucks. If I wanted something stiff and stressful to use I'd go to the forums and...oh wait.
-
2 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
Let's look at one of the nutters who has waaaaaaaaaay to much free time and therefore does insane endless runs...LifeOfRio. All his latest videos highlight Saryn gameplay at very high levels, team play too:
He's also done a quick overview about how to use her properly:
Whether you like the dude or not is totally irrelevant. What matters is that he and others successfully use her against the hardest content in the game. Not only that, they don't just use her and say "it kinda works"...they rave about her. This is a FACT.
What people need to get over is the need to use her full arsenal against low and mid level enemies, it's totally unnecessary just like wanting 100 stacks with Nidus to fight lvl30 enemies is idiotic. You don't need this AT ALL, it's overkill. If you want to experience her full power, you can challenge yourself with some harder content...because it's pretty clear DE is adding scalability to frames with their latest frame releases and reworks. Saryn is AMAZING when it comes to scalability. She can cope with any level which isn't something all that many frames can do.
Zarr and Zenistar. Man those are definitely trash weapons and the success is entirely on saryn. Yup. Definitely not the healer specter, healing pizzas, using two high-tier weapons and camping a corner area to compensate for something. Can't think of what that compensation would be for though...
You can camp a corner with any frame with those weapons. I mean it isn't proving anything aside from the exact opposite of what you've been saying about toxic lash enabling trashguns.
-
7 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
You could take a total S#&$ weapon like your starter gun and Kestrel and clear the entire star chart thanks to Toxic Lash...no problem at all.
Also if you want CC at high levels you probably should be using a frame with CC instead of relying on a gun. BTW you can stick Blast and Corrosive on an Ignus and still knock a bunch of stuff over as well...and not have it blow up in your face.
-
Just now, (PS4)Radehx said:
You could take a total S#&$ weapon like your starter gun and Kestrel and clear the entire star chart thanks to Toxic Lash...no problem at all.
You could do that anyways. Look if you're going to start throwing a hissy fit at least post some of those videos you keep talking about.
Also Krestel is awesome.
-
13 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
If you think the Ignis is the best weapon to spread spores, especially given the limited range, you clearly haven't used the best weapons yet. You can also use weapons with a bit of spread and fast fire rate. Toxic Lash allows you to use pretty much whatever you want and at least at high levels, you're a bit of an idiot if you take the Ignis over something like the Zarr 😉
Melee Saryn is fine, even the quick attack with my Glaive one-shots any reasonable star chart or sortie content...same with the Lesion.
And I still find it funny how you *@##$ about her effectiveness when people take her well into the 100 levels successfully without a problem. Again, the issue isn't Saryn...it's how YOU use it.
If you think the ignus has bad range then I know for a fact you're talking out of your arse. Unless it was very recently nerfed then Ignus's range and spore spreading is still the best and most efficient way of doing so. Not to mention it doesn't have the self damage risk of the zarr and is considerably more accurate than the zarr's barage mode. Don't get me wrong: I'd suck duck for zarr but if it comes to spreading spaceAIDS then I'm going with the flamethrower. The thing you've talked about using garbage weapons, then turn around and praise zarr, which is definitely not a trash weapon. And lesion is another really good weapon. You know for someone talking abut lash enabling trash weapons you sure aren't mentioning any of them for some strange reason.
And being able to kill star-chart enemies isn't anything to be proud of. You could use a hind and preform well until just before Mot.
-
5 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
The speed boost is helpful both because it boosts your melee damage immediately after dropping it and also because it allows you to get out of harm's way quickly...which makes molt pull aggro more reliably in quite a few situations. You get healing if you fit the augment and she has no fitting issues that should prevent you from doing so if you want healing.
As for the lash comment, that's nonsense too. I can use a gun that is far superior to an Ignis and still get the same spore spreading benefits. And again, ignoring the damage buff for so little energy is laughable. It's an extra damage mod almost no energy.
Again, people are soloing very high level content with her, so the issue isn't the frame...it's you not using it properly.
Molt doesn't boost damage, or attack speed (which would increase melee damage technically by letting you hit more often) just your movement speed. Even DE's admitted that melee saryn is kind of stupid, which is why lash now affects ranged weapons. Also if molt drew aggro then you wouldn't need the speed boost to "get out of harm's way".
You wouldn't spread spores nearly as effectively as with an ignus though. Even an amprex or atomos, since it chains instead. You just can't beat the sweep of an ignus for spore spreading, especially since you can also inflict whatever status you need as well.
14 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:One at a time? Are u playin the same saryn i am?
Try Toxic lash infused...
Amprex, Drakgoon, Azima, Arca plasmor, Kulstar, Orthos, Guandao, Bo prime, Sydon, Etc...
The list goes on... One at a time? Nah
He literally says "(unless you use AoE weapons)" immediately after the one at a time part. It's even in the chunk you quoted.
-
3 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
If you are clever, you at least one of your weapons for rad damage...and all your ancient issues are gone. Also, listing enemies that pose more issues for most other frames too is a bit comical. Fact is, she's one of the strongest frames in game and if you can't figure out how to play her well, it's on you, not the frame. People take her (solo) well into the 100 levels without any issues, so clearly the frame isn't the issue here.
She can now strip armor and halve health as a single frame. Again, if you can't see the value in this, you're not a good Saryn player...or have never really played any higher level content.
People take her solo because the moment another damage-dealing teammate shows up spore becomes considerably less effective unless you actively try to "kill steal" to ensure spores spread. Because if ember came along and nuked a room with WoF (somehow), the spores won't spread since on-death spread doesn't exist except that one spore you stuck on an enemy a few rooms over. Also god help you if you have to keep reapplying spore because then your overal damage goes down and defeats the purpose.
-
Just now, (PS4)Radehx said:
Most is amazing now and pulls aggro VERY reliably compared to before. Lash provides an amazing damage boost and allows you to spread spores with EVERY weapon in game providing a lot of flexibility. It turns garbage (but fun) weapons into god tier.
I don't care about you amazing experience if they don't match reality. She's one of the game's strongest frames though...hell, bar Octavia/Ivara, she's probably the strongest female frame in game. If you can't figure out how to effectively use her armor and health stripping, I don't know what to say.
Molt pulls aggro about as reliably as any other unit (loki's decoy, nekros' shadows, a spectre, etc) and rather than giving it a healing effect like everyone has wanted since forever, that gave it a speed buff for some reason. The few seconds of invulnerability are more of a obligation at this point than a buff, since nearly every barrier that can be summoned already has it (rhino's iron skin, frost's
pain in the assSnowglobe).Lash turns garbage weapons into an inferior ignus. I like braton prime as much as the next guy but I'm not going to say that having it pop spores turns it into god-tier. I'm going to say "why aren't I just using ignus?" because at the end of the day lash's only purpose now is to spread spores. As is the rest of the kit. Except molt because people used that too much so they had to nerf it.
-
1 minute ago, (PS4)Radehx said:
No she didn't, the armor stripping with her old 4 was waaaay less effective.
Spores is totally fine now if you bother practicing how to use them properly. Her entire kit is useful, with her 4 being the one falling off quickest.
Like I said, she's a frame that can both reliably strip armor and halve health. If you don't understand how that's insanely useful for teams, I can't help you.
Molt and Lash are garbage. I've been using saryn since her first iteration and I'm telling you from literal years of experience that her kit is busted and not in a good way.
-
Just now, (PS4)Radehx said:
People totally underestimate true damage of Saryn 3.5 compared to the old one. She can now reliably strip armor which is a HUGE damage boost, especially at higher levels. You have to look at those damage ticks taking into consideration this is on top of totally removing armor too. One frame stripping armor and nuking health...yes please!
Feel free to criticise Saryn, but if aren't happy with her insane scaling damage, you simply don't know how to play her well. She's a total damage monster now...at all levels.
She did that before numbnuts. Only difference is now spores is a mess of anxiety and the rest of her kit is redundant at best and an active hinderance at worst.
-
On 2018-06-09 at 7:33 AM, SyBuhr said:
Let me dissect this for you a bit then, because you miss my reasoning for not liking the new Saryn.
Firstly, I want to mention this line, because this bothers me:
Let's begin with the argument "He has many videos, so he must be right" fallacy. Just because someone sits at their monitor, and gushes over a frame's rework, doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about, just like how I sit at my monitor and critique a frame's rework doesn't mean I know what I am talking about. I have seen his videos, and they are literally just a bunch of memes thrown in, such as "god, she thicc now". Let's take DarkSydePhil, he has a ton of Youtube game videos, right? He must know how to play those games! You see the point I am making. Secondly, that "And Sorry" statement is just plan out unnecessary and condescending. Life isn't this game of "The Popular Person should only speak for us" sort of drivel.
Now, let's begin with the real meat of the issue, since you didn't bother to read any of my earlier posts, which is clear, because I made my stance in those posts practically transparent.
She's buffed in the sense that, yes, she can put out ridiculous damage numbers especially when certain conditions are met. She has become a better DPS frame because of this.
However, she has been "Nerfed" in the sense that, she is more limited in play-styles and builds. You are not going to see a Debuff Saryn now, anymore because of this change in design. Her over-arching design has forced a Selfish-Saryn playstyle. If you have more than one Saryn in your PUG, one of them is going to be a useless tool trying to be useful. If you have another DPS frame other than that Saryn, they will also either end up a Useless tool, or gimp the Saryn. Why? Because team-mates hinder spreads if they don't shoot the spores (which they have to, it can't just be killed), because there are a ton of other DPS frames that fill the role just as well, and will be competing to get kills, because that's their playstyle too.
Everyone here agrees that she has ludicrous damage, no one is going to ever dispute that. People (such as myself) may dispute the inconsistent mechanics behind those, or the selfish-playstyles it creates, but no one here is insane enough to say her damage is poor. We can say that she functions poorly on low-mid level missions, and shines the best when in high end missions, and in Onslaught. Even then, that's iffy, depending on faction. We can theorize that she has been potentially balanced around a game-mode not representing roughly %65 of what Warframe offers. We can say all those things, and be correct (or relatively so) in our assertions, because that's what is evident to us thus far.
Saryn is not necessarily better than she was before, due to the fact that she has now had her entire Debuff design gutted. Why should I bother Debuffing enemies, especially when the most used Aura in the game already strips that armor away from everyone? Why should I use Miasma, when an Ignis will offer just as decent results in spreading? Why should I mod for damage, when it will scale infinitely? Why should I mod for anything other than spores at this point? Molt has no Synergies at all, Toxic Lash is a less effecient Miasma (and why use it when you can bring an Ignis that will always pop spores), Miasma is still Miasma, and is now more frequently spammed then ever before. This is all indication of poorly planned design. Does it mean it's the worst? Heavens, NO. But it does mean that somewhere, things changed, and it has narrowed her Viable Playstyles.
Essentially, now you only have two predominant playstyles: Power Strength, and Range. Why? Because the range will offer you more enemies effected. Power-strength to kill those enemies. To say she's better in this regard, is just plan silly, and shows that Rio only cares about high DPS. Which is fine, but it wasn't Saryn's intended design, as a Debuff frame. To put it in perspective, She could dish out this damage during her 2.0 time nearly instantly with a decent enough setup, and a good enough riven, while offering a Debuff (Viral) that nothing else in the game offers in the same scale and scope.
Now, if your Team-mates have Corrosive Projection, You've lost that minuscule Debuff potential. Again, why do anything other than Spores? Spores will always kill now, and for everyone who LOVES DPS frames (because we totally don't have enough of those, cough equinox, Octavia, Mirage, Ash, Nidus, cough), this rework is great.
But what about the people who loved her as a Debuff support frame? Well, tough S#&$ lad, because the only miniscule debuff she has (corrosive on spores), is practically the most used Aura and Element on weapons. Viral at 75 base energy isn't even worth it at that point, just put it on your Ignis Wraith, because why wouldn't you use that weapon (and only that) on Saryn at this point. Only purpose for Miasma is those last second spore spreads, that's it.
This is what I mean by a nerf. You have only one play-style: Kill everything, be as selfish as possible, your team is literally a hindrance to you. It isn't a good design choice to force that, when the amount of DPS frames are already pretty filled out, and are the go-to for most PUG players (so that they can "Carry Their Team"). Why should I play any other DPS frame now? There's only one reason: Because your PUGs are going to be assaulted with 2-3 Saryn players, and there are only so many slots for spores to be on an enemy. Saryn's are literally CHOKING out other DPS frames and other Saryns. Hell, Saryn is choking out practically everything.
Is that good design to you? Is she in a better spot now because of that? Is that what you really want a Frame to be? I can't tell you how many games have been Disbanded once the host saw I was Saryn. It must be like 20 or so at this point. I can't tell you how many games people actively worked against me, by killing enemies so quick that I just become a useless twat. I can't tell you how unenthused players get, when all they have to do is sit around and let the Saryn work. It is the most boring, un-fun experience I've had. It isn't what a Team-Shooter is supposed to be, where only one frame goes around doing S#&$, and all the other sit, dance, or t-bag 24/7 until the mission ends. Don't get me wrong, I like what they did in terms of them taking a risk, but it didn't pay off in my eyes.
If you like DPS frames, where you are the only person playing, and your team-mates are complete hindrance to you, She is now PERFECT for you.
For everyone else who actually enjoys trying to play the game in a team-shooter, look else-where, or play Solo. (Something I've been told to do in squad chat.)
In a game that is multiplayer predominantly, it is ironic, that your Spores are more valuable to you (The player) than your actual team-mates. Say a team-mate went down somewhere, am I going to risk my spores and stacks to go save that person? Hell NO. They better waste their revive, and that's the sentiment I feel now, that is the MANTRA that Saryn exudes now. Before I'd say, "Doesn't matter, spores will spread passively, Spores will debuff and do their primary job, my team mates are still going to enjoy playing so idrgaf lol hehe xd".
None of what she offers now, offers that. If you actually read anything I've said, you'd know that. Hell, if you played her during her 2.0 time, you'd know that, it'd be evident as day!
When I play with another Saryn, I literally get up, run to Subway and get a Teriyaki Chicken sub Footlong, eat it at my computer, move occasionally, and guess what, mission Success. Why should I bother playing, when I myself have first-hand experience knowing what it is like when a Team-mate tries to play with me as Saryn? I know as a team-mate, I am just going to get in the way, and that isn't a buff. Don't get me wrong, I still go to extract with the team and all, but why should I bother doing literally anything other than Moving, breathing, and eating my Sub?
TL;DR : Take a knee for a moment, stop saying Sorry, you'll end up a Sorry Individual. While your at it, re-read the posts I've put in this thread, because you clearly don't understand why I don't like her now as opposed to before. If you can't bother to read the wall of text the first time to truly understand why I don't like a frame, and have no interest in an honest conversation to make her better, than I have nothing left to say to you. I don't think we disagree that she's become an awesome DPS frame, to the point that many are fore-going other frames. But design-wise, she has fewer viable play-styles offered, and she is choking out other team-mates from enjoying a team-based game.
I don't have anything to add but this nailed it on the head.
-
3 hours ago, ZarakkiZenn said:
[snip]
More to the point, why on Earth would a Saryn rework fundamentally alter spores and miasma and not molt and toxic lash? That's like grabbing a partially rotten vegetable, cutting and throwing away the good parts only to replace it with another ingredient altogether, then proceeding to chop up the putrid vegetable, season it, and toss in the salad.
This! Spore 2.0 worked. Miasma had synergy with it and as much I as still feel like 2.0 miasma was a nerf it still worked better than it does now (no synergy, no damage boosting, bigger range but less damage). Meanwhile molt is still useless without the augment (meaning you also likely slot in Rage/VA, killing two mod slots), and toxic lash lost its energy payback while saryn is still an energy-hungry mess of kneejerk
nerfs"buffs"Instead of asking "How can we change this frame that clearly works and is used?" they should be asking "How do we improve these frames we don't see used?"
When was the last time anyone saw a vauban or wukong? What about poor, poor Nyx?
[PC Update 23.5] Revenant Feedback Megathread
in Warframes
Posted
Or, instead of nerfing him MORE, just rip off Overwatch and have AFK players get kicked.