Birdframe_Prime

To report the standing of this topic: DE did address this over the course of several months dubbed 'The Speed Test' by people that remember it. In this, DE tried to rework the way players received the buff from Speed because, as we know, it is not universally loved. Those that do not like the buff specifically do not like it because it changes their reaction times, their familiar or necessary movements to navigate, and so on. According to DE's actual in-game stats of people that actually opted out of Speed consistently, the people that do not like Speed are in the vast minority, but they are still important to DE's quality of life testing for the game. Those that want speed and actively stayed with the Volt when navigating to make use of Speed's melee and movement buffs was a more sizable group of players, and those that didn't really care, but also didn't opt out even after being told that they could opt out, made up the majority, but not by an overwhelming margin. One thing they stated quite clearly before they began the process is this: "Buffs are designed to be Buffs, they will be treated as such, and we don't want a case where people can set a passive toggle to deny a buff outright. Not only does this make a setting that people could turn on and forget, in case of reworks where we fix the problem and players then don't get the new buff, but it also makes our coding incredibly buggy for each and every update we do where a setting like this could accidentally make it so that something incredibly bad happens, like denying all buffs and leaving a frame as if it doesn't even have mods." Basically; No, they will never do an 'automatic deny' option for buffs like Speed or Motes, but yes they want to try to fix things for players that don't appreciate them. So, quite a few options were tried. The first idea was to simply make Speed a pick-up. Volt cast the ability, went faster, and dropped a shiny ability pick-up like Wisp's Motes for the buff. However... the people that wanted Speed had to keep finding the pick-ups, and when the Volt re-cast, the old pickups vanished and they had to try and catch up without Speed to find the new ones before those, in turn, vanished. The people that didn't want Speed found that players would drop the pickups in transition spaces, like hallways, doorways and narrow walkways where they naturally pushed the button to enter the next room faster, and so it was usually impossible to avoid the pickups. In this case, the opt-out was still necessary. Other options included changing the opt-out to a different function. Such as the forwards roll, or the sideways roll. Again, the people that wanted Speed couldn't maintain it, and in this case not even the Volt that cast it, because rolling forwards is an important part of the natural faster movement cycle. So in this case the fix made the ability worse for everyone that wanted the buff, wasting casts more often than not, and went against DE's desire for a buff to be a buff. Similar problems arose with the other changes they made. In all cases, two outcomes happened: Either the buff couldn't be maintained by people that actively wanted it, or the basic opt-out was still needed. Which led to the conclusion, for DE at least, that there's not really much they can do for players that don't like these particular buffs. The opt-out they had was the 'least terrible' idea they had implemented, so it stuck. Speed is a buff to them, and will remain so, and DE want players to receive buffs from other players. We know that not all buffs are useful in all situations. When doing a Spy vault, having Wisp's Shock motes isn't helpful because it alerts all the guards. When trying to capture a Simaris target, having a Roar buff could make a player accidentally kill it while killing the surrounding enemies. Standing in the darkness will give Mirage up to 90% DR with her Eclipse, but she actually wants the massive weapon damage buff, not the DR. There are situations where buffs are not what we want. And sadly... Speed is one that they've tried to fix, and couldn't fix to anyone's satisfaction.

Hmm... There's patterns in the Prime releases, and, outside of a few that have been released in places like Baro, we can work out what Primes could... possibly... be released with the Daikyu Prime. Let's base this off frames that have signature weapons, what frames are in cycle, what frames will be predicted up next, and what frames will be leaving the cycle to make room for them. In current Prime Access (as of the 17th with Gauss Prime) So all of these frames are one thing, and you'll note that, with the exception of Hildryn, they all released with two weapons, and with the exception of Grendel and Baruuk, with only their Signature weapons. But here's the fun part; as long as the number of 'parts' match up, any frame that has only one Signature weapon can potentially have a second weapon released with them, instead of a companion, archwing or arch-weapon. So let's look at the ones coming up for Prime on the list, in the predicted order that they'll appear after Gauss. And we'll remove the ones from the list that have a Signature Primary weapon, because of course they'll be released with their signature Primary. We'll also remove any that have two signature weapons for the same reason. Fun, right? What this means is that there are 4 frames coming up for Prime in the next year after Gauss (so year and a quarter), that could potentially have the Daikyu Prime. Which ones make most sense to you? Protea is more techy, so maybe not... Xaku, on the other hand, has a Signature that has projectiles as the heavy attack, that might be a good choice. Sevagoth has the amazing Primer, but also his Shadow... so I'm not sure... And Yareli literally can't use her Primary on Merulina, so forget that. The one outlier is Caliban... and that's a funny one. Caliban has a Sentient weapon, which, like Nidus having Infested weapons, may mean that he gets two completely unique Primes from the Tenno Weapon list that haven't been touched yet. If we don't get a Daikyu by this time next year, we may get one with Caliban. ::Edit:: Posted too early So, to bring this back to the earlier list. The Primes that will be leaving the cycle for these new frames are important. Protea, for example, will be knocking Khora off the list, and Khora has two Signature weapons. Protea may get a Sentinel or something instead, but there's a space to fill. Xaku will replace Revenant, who has a Signature Melee and Primary, so replacing a Primary with a Primary is not a bad idea. Sevagoth will take off Hildryn, and she has two weird ones, a Signature Arch Gun and Shade. So... who knows what they'll replace those with besides the Epitaph...? And Caliban... is all the way down to replace Gauss later, meaning replacing a frame with two Signature guns... that's a lot of free space to use. With that all said... Protea and Xaku could be options to release a Daikyu Prime, with Xaku possibly being the stronger choice. Caliban, though... Could be a real contender for a couple of 'forgotten' weapons.

So, yes the Corrosive stacks from Emerald shards bypass the 4 stack limit of the status on Bosses. This does mean that, since Plunder works on the number of procs, not the number of enemies, he can reach a higher bonus from less enemies. In a boss arena (not Archons, but other bosses), for example, having 5 Emerald Shards slotted would give you 10 bonus stacks, for 14 total available and technically allow any frame to armour strip the boss completely. 5 Tauforged would allow you 15 extra stacks, meaning you could hit 19 on a boss for almost your entire Plunder effect from just that one enemy. Fun times ^^

We don't have dedicated servers for two other reasons than the 'lot of money'; And the first is that it's the 'lot of work' thing. Here's the procedure: Stop developing anything new for Warframe (because adding anything more will only move the goalposts for this whole thing) Recode the entire base game's net-code over the course of potentially months Purchase and test dedicated servers in all regions for connectivity Re-negotiate all of their deals with Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo and TenCent for distribution and updates. Implement Warframe on these new servers and ensure bugged coding doesn't remove player content. Now start developing anything new for Warframe. Now, do you see the final problem with this? Apart from the 'lot of money' and 'lot of work' thing? The other of the 'two other reasons' reasons is this: No dev on Warframe for months on end, completely breaking DE's updates and content schedule, and more importantly losing the player base as they stop playing the game for that time. New players would join, sure, but anyone that's on the higher end of the 'wave' of updates? Nothing for them to do, or look forward to, for months. So you spend money to do this, you spend work hours to do this, and the entire time you lose revenue and players due to inactivity. What do you get at the end of this? The problems of Dedicated Servers. Which are many, well documented, and complained about viciously by gamers worldwide. Including, but not limited to, server overload on update days. Player limits on specific servers. Being kicked out of the game the second the update starts instead of having the time to finish your mission and log out. Servers being out of convenient range for players, or in areas with limited service, forcing players in some countries to have permanent high ping. And many, many more. Warframe's P2P system has its faults. But there are just as many with the Dedicated Server route. And of that, you'd still have to get Warframe there, losing money and players the entire time. It's far more worth it to just... keep developing new things for the game instead.

Thank. You. A sensible player that recognises the accessibility factor. Compared to that one nut-job who said that you could 'just set an alarm' and log on four times a day to get all of the Alerts... you're a breath of fresh air ^^

I want to cast a vote for a third option. I want a rework to The Sargeant. Where he gets away despite everything we do to try and stop him. Let me paint you a picture of this little ridiculous idea: We arrive in the boss arena and get a tiny little cut scene of the boss seeing us and scrambling out the door, leaving his minions for us to nuke. We have to destroy a couple of targets to unlock the door, and progress to the next stage. The next stage is the boss locking himself into a security chamber that launches out of the room as an escape pod. We have to disable more security and progress out into an Archwing section where we chase his pod and blow it up. It spirals out of control and smashes into the ship again, with him somehow surviving. Arriving at the crash site we see another little cut scene of him scrambling free and jumping into one of the Corpus Coil Drives and powering off into the ship. We can choose to either chase him on a K-Drive or we can choose to parkour through some of the back tunnels in the ship to catch up to him, eventually blowing up the Coil Drive and launching him through a security door that shuts, saving him from us temporarily. ... And so on. Basically we accomplish at least four procedurally generated events out of ten or fifteen possible ones where the boss tries to escape us and eventually manages to, by sheer luck and dumb panic, actually survive. We destroy the entire ship in the end, escaping the explosion and getting picked up by the Lander, meanwhile a little cut-scene shows us that the Sargeant gets rescued by another ship and hailed as a hero for surviving the Tenno again. The boss is neither invincible, nor does he have damage attenuation, he is a cockroach and we just can't hit him.

It's alright, Psi. I listen to you, and respect you, possibly even have a little crush on you... I just have to push at least one more time after I should stop. It's part of my endearing charm, don'tchaknow?

I just... kind of feel that it's irrelevant when you can stack his defenses over and over, while casting one of the most solid CC casts in the game, stripping enemies of Armour so they die quickly, and slowing the ones that are CC immune. Globe only stacks up to a million? Yeah, it does. A million, though, takes a while to get through when you have 4 seconds in there to cast Avalanche and stop 99% of the damage coming in, while then stacking up your Overguard, and so your Overgate, on top of your Shield Gate, and can do it all over again when that 1m has been whittled away by the Eximus that have only been slowed instead of frozen. And that's not even starting on putting things on Frost from the Helminth to make his job easier. Frost isn't a run-and-gun frame, like a few others. He's made for staying in place. And there are plenty of game modes in Warframe that are built for exactly that. From Mobile Defense and Excavation, through to camping Survivals. He has a niche, and he's really good at that niche. So... having a downside that means he can't become functionally un-killable by combining some defense that scales with enemy levels on top of his other defense casts? Seems a tad overkill to me.

Yeah, you're right. Noticed it in one of the others where this little pant stain decided to 'nuh uh' a discussion as 'it's just laziness by the devs' after another person gave a reasoned and well-argued point about the topic. And doubled-down. Blocking that waste of space.

Yes, which is accessed each time you go to the Arsenal, Mod Bench or similar. It's referenced when you load into a mission, for example, when you connect to another player, or load into a Relay. Not constantly, and not between loading screens, unless you're on a true server that DE monitors, like the Dojos or Maroo's. Trade offers are conducted on Warframe's officially monitored servers because of this. Do you see the logic? Now, how did we get here? If you'll recall, you quoted me saying 'Why is Trading like this?' And said exactly what I said, that without some kind of Server in charge there would be exploitation of the Peer To Peer net code. Which is correct. And you agreed with me by saying this is obvious, right? I then replied to your comment, about it being obvious, with words to the effect of 'well, they were new to this'. And you responded to that by saying... they weren't, and that DE salaries are in the 100K+ situation. Which I laughed at, because 10 years ago they definitely weren't. Due to facts and logic and existing interviews that all say that DE was on the verge of collapse 10 years ago. You called into question my intelligence. Which didn't change the fact that DE had never worked with P2P net code before, and were on the verge of collapse after a string of bad game dev. And you came back with the ridiculous statement that Warframe is not P2P. Which it is. Only a tiny fraction of Warframe, the Dojos and public hubs like Relays, are not P2P. Every connection that is not to one of those things is P2P. That's the entire net code of Warframe. So I believed you were trying to troll. That's because a statement as blatantly false as 'Warframe is not a P2P game' with no backup, no qualification, no tie in to a larger argument like 'trading, specifically, is not P2P'... had to be trolling and couldn't be made in good faith. Only after I refuted that point, did you qualify that with 'Trading is not P2P'. So. What you did was make some absolutely bat-crap insane comments and only after getting argued with, laughed at, and called a troll did you actually qualify your statement with something that was actually relevant to the discussion. What does that mean? It means you haven't been paying attention to the discussion yourself, you've been making sweeping, nonsensical statements. Let's take a breath and look at this, try and straighten out this mess you've made. The discussion is trying to make the Trading system better, by using some form of system other than having to talk to a person, usually after referencing Warframe.Market, or spending ages in the Trade Chat window, going through the Dojo/Maroo's loading screen, initiating the Trade, then going back out through another loading screen to your Orbiter again. Right? That's what the point of this thread is, right? So without knowing the basics of why we have to do that, it's going to be a lot of silly ideas that will get rejected out of hand, right? Knowing what the limitations are, the ones put in by DE, is important. It's not about making Trading P2P. It never was about making Trading P2P. Although there were a couple of silly comments made by others here that would basically have made Trading P2P by means of bypassing the monitored servers, or they would have gone against DE's basic mandate of wanting players to interact a bare minimum. Your comments against me have been something you've managed to rake up from a bizarre conclusion you've had by mis-reading a comment somewhere. My entire presence in this thread has been to report DE's views, rules and reasons, so that any discussion about this topic can move in a constructive manner. And you turned it into a complete farce. By giving one-sentence bickering answers that were easily interpreted as nothing but trolling. Hopefully you can just suck it up and carry on with the thread, now that you've had the full explanation, and stop pretending that I'm saying things that I'm not. Because if you can't, then the thread is going to get locked.

During one of the later appearances of the year, Rebecca did say that there is going to be more Heirloom collections for other frames. They also said that, because of the response that players had to the Regal Aya inflating the price of each tier, the pricing or the content of the tiers will be 'reconsidered'.

What? So the whole thing that I said, you just ignored it? That because player interactions were Peer-to-Peer and DE had a problem with Code Injection, they decided to make Trading monitored and verified by their Servers, forcing players into one of the Dojos or Maroo's. Because DE literally told us this? Did you just completely ignore that information? Did you just wipe that from whatever memory you claim to have? The Peer-to-Peer nature of non-Dojo or non-Maroo's interaction is why the overall goal of a trading system that is not monitored by them, that is possible to run AFK, or possible to run without joining a server, is not going to happen. Which is why Warframe's Peer-to-Peer nature has literally everything to do with Trading in the way that it isn't going to be used for it. In the way that it's the reason for no other Trading method apart from loading into a connected Server is going to exist, according to DE themselves. So why, for the love of Booben, would you say it has nothing to do with this conversation? It has everything to do with this conversation. It's the cause of this conversation. Warframe's P2P coding is why we don't have Trading like other games do, where you can get a Marketplace in game, or a Trading Hub where you can put things up for sale and let somebody else buy them with no interaction. That's the entire point. That's why we don't get a smoother system. That's why there are literally four other threads about Trading systems on the Forums live right now. Why are you like this?

Oh, this one. Unlocks a whole new set of nodes on Deimos. The Wiki might not have been updated fully since the quest, and the extra nodes, were released less than a month ago.

Yeah, no, I'm telling THEM. The person I was replying to? Did you, somehow, miss that entire conversation? Are you really that dense? Did you not read? Now kindly do us all the favour of sitting on a traffic cone until you taste the orange.

I... Hmm... Look, I know this is frustrating. But. I'm going to add something I haven't seen in the thread that needs pointing out to so, so, so many players. There is literally a news feed to the right of Navigation in your Orbiter, everyone can see it, everyone ignores it because they don't seem to care about News until it's suddenly too late for something. Now, it can be annoying to look at because going to an article does bring up an overlay where you can see the Website, but it links directly to the news articles DE release to warn people about what is changing, when, and how it's changing. The timers and things in game are confirmations of the information DE has already put out. They rarely appear before DE makes the actual News announcement (a couple of times there has been one that announced a new thing most of a day before DE announced it themselves, because the reset it at 00:00 GMT while they don't get into work until the morning in Canada). So all of those things on the little console to the right that are glowing and pulsing with colour, instead of just being plain white text, are current and relevant News. The News announcements are actually there, and checking them is kind of something that you should be doing if you aren't going to the Website, or Socials, or Youtube, or literally any of the places they announce things outside of the game.

Yes it does, because DE literally told us it does. But not in the way you think, because you've got the wrong end of the stick. Try reading the discussion again. Here's the nut-shell version of the argument I've been making on this topic: Because Warframe is primarily Peer-to-Peer for regular interaction between players, DE can't enforce trades unless you go onto their servers, in the Dojo or the Bazaar. You must initiate a server connection to verify. You can't trade outside of these places because outside of these places it's Peer-to-Peer. So your entire point here has been because you thought I was saying something completely different. Ye gods is reading comprehension too much to ask? Can we ever really be free of troglodytes who leap on the first sentence? Not sure, Bird-3 seems fine with it.

Yeah, DE got this one mixed up ^^

Oh, you're attempting to troll. That's nice. Good for you.

Yeah, and they never worked with Peer to Peer networked games before. And the company being more than 30 years old doesn't change the facts I mentioned; they worked as a support studio for other developers, and on Dark Sector. And when they were pitching Warframe they were only one chance away from shuttering the studio permanently. It's been in, like, three different documentaries from different news outlets for its remarkable return to strength from nearly nothing a little over a decade ago.

Pfftt.... HahahahahhahHAHAHAH! DE, when developing Warframe, was a nearly dead studio. Warframe was their hail mary play, it's a fully documented thing with years of interviews. 100K salaries? They barely had the lights on. Before doing Warframe all they'd worked on was Dark Sector and contributed to other studios during their game dev cycles. If you don't even know the basics, don't make sweeping statements. They make you look ridiculous.

Well, remember that this was 10 years ago, and DE didn't realise how easy it can be to inject code into P2P connections. Remember that they were learning this too. Almost certainly possible, but with one wrinkle; The only servers DE can monitor are ones that they actually use/own/rent. It's not really a matter of 'creating' them. What you're describing is basically just another generated Peer To Peer connection, which is what DE have specifically used the Dojos and Maroo's to avoid. The whole thing with joining a Dojo is because the Dojo system is capable of hosting players like a Relay is, and is on one of the servers that DE uses in the first place. So... basically even with the whole idea of creating a UI around the player that's specifically for trading, the process would still be 'Step 1. Load into a server together with the other player and an active connection monitored by DE.' And if that's the case, both players would still go through a loading screen, and have to then initiate the trade from there, the same as they currently do with Dojos and Maroo's. When you think about it that way, why go to all the extra effort of creating that, when the same process already exists in the current form? Look, I hear you, it just... I'm reporting what DE have said, not pulling random reasons out of my butt. DE want us to be online. They want us to get whispered and communicate and have that whole difficulty with not being in mission or anything else. They don't want us to be able to list stuff while we're not online. That's why the Market exists in the first place as a fan-made thing. The fans want this, but DE don't. So I get what we're all saying here. However. Even when people say 'Oh, well it's the new team in charge now.' they're forgetting that this new team was part of the old team, and the person at the top of the new team was the one that was against offline or AFK trading right along with the old team. Which means... it's not likely to change any time soon. Not likely. Possible. Just not likely.

So. Context? Why is Trading like this in the first place? Two things: First is because DE are apparently keeping it as policy that they will never introduce any way to be offline and Trade with others. Second is because DE's systems were previously easily exploitable. Players could use code injection to cause a slew of issues, from duplicating items by simultaneously cancelling and confirming a trade, so that both players got the result, all the way through to simply acquiring things in a trade that the other player didn't even own, let alone trade to them. So. There are a few requirements that DE put in to prevent exploitation of their system; For example, by forcing both players to connect to a server that DE can monitor (Maroo's Bazaar or the Dojo) they can enforce the trade itself, making sure that the players both own the things they're trading and that players receive the things they traded for. (They can't enforce trades for favours, but actual trades? Actual trades they can monitor and even reverse for the players if there's a dispute.) Basically the rules are as follows: 1. Players must actually communicate. The bare basics. 2. Players must be in a server that can be monitored by DE's system to verify, track and archive the trade itself. That's it. Considering these two, there are some things they could do to improve the Trading system. However... given the policy of no Offline or AFK trading, and given the requirement for both players to verify their inventories by entering a Server together... Those improvements are going to be limited to things like the UI and Chat improvements ^^

Intentional, yes, maybe an over-nerf, but definitely intentional. These two things are literally not the same thing. The AoE meta being nerfed, because they were a problem, is because of the AFK farming meta that became so prevalent that players were literally able to macro their farming for hours in a given Survival by basically standing around a corner and shooting their own feet. Can you do that with Incarnons? No. Because Incarnon mode must be charged with either headshots or full body shots for the ones that can't properly headshot. You have to actually aim and shoot an Incarnon to charge it, press the button to transform it, then you run out of ammo for that and have to repeat. Not a lot of input, true, but something that's called a 'minimum level of engagement'. Which is what DE require from the players; moving, aiming, shooting enemies, using Abilities, whatever. But you have to do something. Because of... Mirage? W... What? Wukong, y'daft sausage. The frame that was literally played more than the next forty frames combined. And why? Because he had an automatic turret that used your own weapon with infinite ammo. Mirage is designed to make weapons stronger. Wukong was accidentally designed to make weapons completely non-interactive. Just press 1 to summon your monkey clone, then watch as it destroys everything for you. Especially when you're corner-camping in Survival and can break line of sight with enemies in order to have them all charge in at your clone instead. That's why WuClone now uses your ammo. That's why WuClone will sit down if you're AFK. That's why Wukong himself had a stat rework to ensure it's actually viable to run his Staff now instead of the AoE AFK meta. Wukong is why DE keep threatening to bring back self damage. So... yeah. Over-nerfed? Maybe. Until the community stop, as a surprising and strange majority, using it to go AFK in missions and farm for hours... not likely to get un-nerfed.

Considering the angry 'How are you cheating?!' messages I got when I renamed all my Incarnon weapons to the 'Mk-1' version of them where possible, never used the Incarnon form so it didn't give away the function, and then got top damage in public squads because of the stat boosts... Oh, and being Legendary 3 meant that players thought I was just MR3... I think that there's a lot to be said about how easily players in Warframe get offended when you start giving things different names. That said. I would guess that the reason we can't rename Warframes is going to be something like this (considering the way DE likes to phrase things): 'You can't rename Warframes because you have no vendor who will make kit-Warframes, or zaw-Warframes, you can't 'gild' a Warframe, so you also can't rename a Warframe. We have no intention of ever implementing that system, not since we implemented the Helminth, so you won't get a vendor who can let you rename a Warframe either.' That's weird logic, but that's usually how they would phrase these kind of things. Or at least it's how Rebecca would.

Yeah, no... DE have asked the simple question of 'Why would we ever want any players to be able to black-list a frame?' In response to every request ever. They basically pretend they don't understand that players wouldn't want to play with another frame, no matter how annoying that frame is. The most they'll ever do is re-work the specific frame. Never, ever, ever will they allow us to black-list.