Icebreccer
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Posts posted by Icebreccer
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From this to this:
Can't they just revert the changes they did over a year ago?
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Simultaneously Photon strike could also be buffed to not just land where the grenade lands, but to also simultaneously strike the location of any of Vauban's other deployables. For example if 4 enemies are caught by Tesla Nervos and there are 4 flechette orbs and 1 bastille on the field. A total of 10 photon strikes will occur. One at the thrown grenade, and one for each deployable.
I like this idea, but I would also make it so that when a Photon Strike hits Bastille it will deal damage to every enemy in the Bastille's radius. I would also remove the redundant blast ragdoll from Photon Strike to prevent it from throwing the enemies all over the place. Or another idea would be to attach it to the Bastille and make it shoot the Orbital Strike at X seconds intervals in it.
At the moment is just costs way too much for such a puny AoE and damage. I love the looks and feel of the ability, but it's simply bad and almost hurts Vauban's synergy by throwing enemies off Bastille. Can't say there is a valid reason to be using the ability at all.
The way things are now Flechette Orb is definitely Vauban's best ability for the damage, cost and ease of use. It feels quite disappointing to be honest.
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Vauban's buttflaps and all of his alternative helmets look off (too shiny and plasticy):
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38 minutes ago, (NSW)Matt-S said:
This is already the case. Tap for Bastille, hold for Vortex. Hold while a Bastille is up to turn it into a Vortex. There's not really any situations where you need both of them up parallel to each other.
Eeh, it's not. Bastilles always expire into Vortexes making low duration builds throw enemies around like crazy. And also there are multiple scenarious where I would love to be able to throw a Vortex into a corridor while keeping the other enemies Bastilled. After all Bastille is the one that removes enemy armor and gives you an armor buff.
I think it's just stupid that you are forced to turn Bastilles into Vortexes and limit the versatility of the frame. I think the mechanic just clunky and redundant. Having it always tap for Bastille and hold for Vortex would make him so much more enjoyable to use.
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Not sure where the Old Blood feedback topic vanished, but I still want to try to get the devs attention about Vauban.
1. Remove the forced Bastille > Vortex conversion. I can't repeat this one enough, it's so darn annoying and completely destroys the point of Bastille. Perfect solution would be tap = Bastille, hold = Vortex, removing the conversion completely would give Vauban more options to choose the correct CC for any situation. The conversion gimmick is just clumsy to use.
2. Remove the homing of Photon Strike into Vortex. This one is also so darn annoying that you try and try to aim your Photon Strike at enemies, but instead it clips the radius of a nearby Vortex and flies off to a completely different direction. Also not to mention that your Photon Strike can home into OTHER players Vortexes as well. Because of this and the "recent" buff to Flechette Orb, it's just generally better to use that instead.
3. Overdriver STILL sticks to EVERYTHING. That means sentinels, excavators, rescue targets and heck even your own damn tesla rollers. It's almost impossible to micromanage and feels like a chore to use. Just make it simply stick to the Vauban player and give its buff to allies in a radius around the player.
4. Lower the energy cost of his 4 to 75 and 3 to 50. He's a caster frame now and drains his energy way faster than before. It doesn't help that his only survivability tool Bastille now has a whopping 100 energy cost. Photon Strike on the other hand is one time "grenade" and costs too much compared to what it does. Flechette Orb almost makes it redundant to even cast his Photon Strike.
5. Tether Coil is still bugged. The tether effects linger on dead bodies and makes it hard to see what it actually grabs. Not to mention the grabbing mostly causes enemies to get stuck pretty much all over the geometry. Just fix the tether effects on dead bodies and make the pull faster and more aggressive (wiggling around before reaching the tether point) to avoid enemies getting stuck.
I could say a word about his survivability or the redundant Vector Pad, but these small things are much easier to fix/change and go a long way for my general enjoyment with Vauban. At the moment his most effective and viable skill is to just spam Flechette Orbs.
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*sigh* Not sure if they are even paying any attention to this topic anymore (or did after maybe the first one or two days after the initial rework). At this point I would be just fine with few small tweaks to make Vauban generally more comfortable to play.
1. Remove the forced Bastille > Vortex conversion. I can't repeat this one enough, it's so darn annoying and completely destroys the point of Bastille. Perfect solution would be tap = Bastille, hold = Vortex, removing the conversion completely would give Vauban more options to choose the correct CC for any situation. The conversion gimmick is just clumsy to use.
2. Remove the homing of Photon Strike into Vortex. This one is also so darn annoying that you try and try to aim your Photon Strike at enemies, but instead it clips the radius of a nearby Vortex and flies off to a completely different direction. Also not to mention that your Photon Strike can home into OTHER players Vortexes as well. Because of this and the "recent" buff to Flechette Orb, it's just generally better to use that instead.
3. Overdriver STILL sticks to EVERYTHING. That means sentinels, excavators, rescue targets and heck even your own damn tesla rollers. It's almost impossible to micromanage and feels like a chore to use. Just make it simply stick to the Vauban player and give its buff to allies in a radius around the player.
4. Lower the energy cost of his 4 to 75 and 3 to 50. He's a caster frame now and drains his energy way faster than before. It doesn't help that his only survivability tool Bastille now has a whopping 100 energy cost. Photon Strike on the other hand is one time "grenade" and costs too much compared to what it does. Flechette Orb almost makes it redundant to even cast his Photon Strike.
5. Tether Coil is still bugged. The tether effects linger on dead bodies and makes it hard to see what it actually grabs. Not to mention the grabbing mostly causes enemies to get stuck pretty much all over the geometry. Just fix the tether effects on dead bodies and make the pull faster and more aggressive (wiggling around before reaching the tether point) to avoid enemies getting stuck.
I could say a word about his survivability or the redundant Vector Pad, but these small things are much easier to fix/change and go a long way for my general enjoyment with Vauban.
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Another update and another week and no changes to Vauban. You gave us hope and promises 3 weeks ago for more tweaks to Vauban, but nothing has happened since then.
QuoteVauban Changes:
- Hot off the feedback train with more to come as we dive deeper:
This was on 26.0.4 patch notes which was 3 weeks ago. How much deeper you have to dive in to make some tweaks for this rework? Heck, even Garuda got buffs in the latest patch. Sure DE got lots on their hands, but I sincerely hope I don't have to wait for months to see some improvements to Vauban's messy kit. Or maybe I'm just too hopeful for my own good, better check back in few years to see if this rework is getting reworked at all...
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Mirage is great for the survival as her clones retain all your mods. So take a good (I suggest fast as base) melee weapon and go to town with it. Easiest mission to solo.
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3 minutes ago, MrFrog9 said:
I agree although Vauban having exactly one ability that is specifically not a deployable ball that sits out on the field independently from him upsets me for reasons I don't understand.
E: FWIW the ability is called Minelayer but since only Vector and Flechette even vaguely function as mines that ship has long since sailed.Well, it could be a floating/superfast ground roller that follows Vauban around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Anything to make him less of a sitting duck.
If I'd get to decide I would just scrap the whole "Minelayer" crap and would just steal Volt's shield and give it to Vauban. BAM! A fitting ability that gives Vauban what he actually needs. I actually loved one of the ideas that someone suggested, a deployable "Glacis" shield that reflects incoming fire.
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4 minutes ago, MrFrog9 said:
Honestly I think just changing it so that it stays on the field and buffs everything in range instead of jumping to a single target would be a massive QoL improvement. It's decent when solo but sticking it on individual teammates is awkward.
In my opinion best would be if it would stick to Vauban player and then just buff everything in range. It's awkward to use if it's a stationary buff.
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5 hours ago, alseltas said:
The native damage is okayish but insignificant against high level armored enemies. I wish it also scales with enemy’s armor values or just ignores armor, as the armor stripping is currently too slow.
Otherwise I have the same opinion.
IMO it should just ignore armor completely.
Also I have yet another feedback on Vauban's 3 and 4 synergy. I feel like the auto-homing mechanic for his Photon Strike into Vortex does more harm than good. It's almost impossible to make use of it when running with full range build as the balls start flying into the center of Vortex even if the enemies you were trying to throw the ball at are at the edge. Not to mention AGAIN that the forced Bastille -> Vortex completely cathes you off guard and makes your perfect 3 throw fly into a completely different direction. Just remove the conversion and let me enjoy my Bastille as I used to.
Thankfully the whole auto-homing thing is broken for clients so you can actually aim your Photon Strikes wherever you please (works only when you are the host). In my opinion the whole mechanic is redundant and does more harm than good.
Bastille:
Vauban is always referred to as the “king of CC”, however his kit doesn’t seem to reflect that title at all. His Bastille can merely hold the most basic enemies (trash mobs) and does little to nothing to enemies that it can’t trap in stasis. How about at least inflicting a heavy slowing effect and perhaps a damage debuff to enemies that are immune to his stasis. It’s ridiculous how frames like Khora and Nova have much more reliable CC methods compared to the one that holds the title of “king of CC”. Khora can hold a whopping 26 enemies in a single Strangledome without any mods at all. Vauban can barely hold 24 enemies in a single Bastille with a steep cost of 200%! power strength. Is the max enemy cap even relevant nowadays? You can always toss more Bastilles anyway. The max enemy cap just makes Vauban even a busier frame and just adds more effect clutter on the map. As if he isn’t energy hungry enough.And if Bastille being a “weak” CC wasn’t enough, it’s plagued with bugs that make its use unreliable. For example any blast effect (e.g from his Photon Strike) will ragdoll enemies in Bastille and throw them all over the place. Some people will not consider this as an issue, but the real issue is that enemies ragdolled this way will NOT be stasised by the same Bastille again. So you end up with enemies walking, shooting and killing you inside your Bastille (even if it hasn’t reached its max enemy count). The same issue happens with other stuns/ragdolls as well. And while this happens the the whole armor stripping/buff ceases to work. So not only do you have enemies killing you inside your own “safety net”, but you also aren’t stripping their armor or gaining any armor buff from them either. Bastille’s CC should be one of the most reliable ones and not be overridden by puny elemental effects or ragdolls.
Bastille sorely needs fixing and buffing. It needs to work more reliably on special units and the armor strip/buff should rack up a lot faster. It has always been Vauban’s #1 iconic ability. At the moment it’s riddled with bugs and hindered by its weak performance.
I love Vauban and he has been my main ever since he was released in May 2013. The rework really fell flat and didn’t meet my expectations at all. All I want is a consistent and reliable kit with the emphasis on Bastille. I never cared about damage or mobility. It was all about the CC and then using your weapons to kill the enemies. What I’d want to see from Vauban is top tier CC, enemy debuffing and tools to survive. 🚂☄️💎
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3 hours ago, Borg1611 said:
edit: Another issue with really high range Vortex is that on smaller indoor maps, or maps with a lot of obstacles, it pulls mobs from adjacent areas into the sides of walls and what not and keeps them from coming to you. Maybe vortex should have a line of sight requirement?
Or maybe the Vortex could remove static collision from enemies and actually pull enemies through the geometry. That way the Vortex would work amazingly and pull enemies into a neat pile. And also would make Vortex a much more unique and fun skill.
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40 minutes ago, nonscience said:
About it ending into a vortex, I like having a visual cue to recast. I get your point though.
Visual cue is great. Ragdolling all enemies while trying to suck them into the center only to get them stuck in different parts of the geometry is not. 😛 Not to mention that this happens even if you have a new Bastille already up and ready.
I just don't like it at all.
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8 hours ago, nonscience said:
Combining Bastille and Vortex gives a tactical choice.
What, how so? With the old kit you could at least select which one to throw, but now you are FORCED to make every Bastille into a Vortex. Or first throw Vortexes and then throw Bastilles which is just as bad.
I'm saying it again that the Bastille -> Vortex conversion has to be removed in order to have more tactical choices and "diversity" with Vauban. I guess keeping them in the same skill is fine as long as a tap is Bastille and hold is Vortex, always. The clunky conversion mechanic is just so annoying and serves no real purpose.
You can say that Vortex got buffed for sure (dat range), but at the same time Bastille got pretty much butchered in the process. I want my enemies stay neatly in place without having a unwanted sucking Vortex at the end.
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Vauban Changes:
- Hot off the feedback train with more to come as we dive deeper:
- Increased the casting speed of Vauban’s Tesla Nervos’ and Orbital Strike.
Holy crap! This actually means that the Photon Strike is now INSTANT and that Tesla Nervos move a lot faster. Also the casting speed for Photon/Bastille increased as well.
One "huge" step in the right direction DE! Thanks, and keep it up.
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Okay, now that I've spent the entire weekend playing with Vauban I'm starting to be more frustrated with the rework. I'm gonna talk about Bastille in depth as that is his heart and soul.
Bastille has always been Vauban's bread and butter. I absolutely love the skill as it holds the enemies neatly in air for easy shooting. But now it feels such a hassle to use because first of all the Bastille ALWAYS converts into a Vortex at the end of its lifetime. This makes enemies start ragdolling all over the place trying to reach the Vortex. It completely ruins the Bastille and its purpose for keeping enemies neatly in place. Secondly, making it so that you can hold to convert your Bastilles into Vortex completely removes the possibility to cast both skills wherever they are needed. There is simply no reason for this conversion to exist in my opinion. If you really must keep the Bastille and Vortex in a single ability then please change it so that tap creates a Bastille and hold creates a Vortex, remove the conversion completely. At the moment it just feels so clunky trying to use the correct ability in a given situation and the forced Vortex conversion at the end of Bastille is just a nail on the coffin. Also Vauban's Bastille should be one of the top priority CCs in the game, meaning that it takes priority over the elemental effect animations and ragdolls. That way it would still keep enemies in stasis and let it strip the armor correctly (for example a Volt using his 4 can completely negate the armor strip and make enemies drop out of Bastille). Bastille's energy cost isn't justified by its stats and the nature of the ability (having to cast multiple and refreshing them), lowering it back to 75 would be a step in right direction.
Also I can't repeat this enough, but his casting times on 3 and 4 are way too long (and windup time on 3). He used to be the frame that could continuously keep firing at enemies and cast all of his abilities at the same time.
Also as so many others have said, Vauban still lacks any survivability. He could really use a "nullifier esq" shield that gives him the protection he needs as some guys have suggested.
I made a quick revision for his skills:
1st Ability: Overdriver
- Attaches to Vauban
- 25% dmg increase
- 30 sec duration
- 15m range for allies near Vauban
- 25 energy cost
OR (you can only select one active)
1st Ability: Bubble Shield
- Works like Nullifier Shield
- Around Vauban with a small radius
- Incoming hits shrink the bubble, charging 1st Ability restores it
- Protects from incoming projectiles
- Grants damage reduction against hitscan weapons base 50%, (max 95%)
2nd Ability: Vortex
- Stats remain the same
- Faster cast animation
- 50 energy cost
3rd Ability: Bastille
- Stats remain the same
- Faster cast animation
- Keep added armor buff
- Strip armor of all enemies inside (stunned/ragdolled)
- 75 energy cost
4th Ability: Photon Strike
- Damage ignores armor
- Faster casting and windup time
- Grants a Photon shield for Vauban (could be augment)
- Photon shield amount 120 shield per enemy hit with a single Photon Strike (refreshes shield when a new Photon Strike exceeds the amount of current shield)
- Photon shield acts the same as Frost's Icy Avalanche
- 75 energy cost
That’s a kit that I think would do well without any added gimmicks. Sometimes less is more and a consistent kit is a good kit.
TL;DR: Bastille combined with Vortex feels so clunky and awkward to use, costs too much energy. The forced conversion to Vortex is messy and annoying. Cast times (and charge time of 3) are way too long. Vauban still lacks survivability.
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As a hardcore Vauban main I'm gonna type some feedback about his kit.
1. Tesla Nervos:
The rollers are way too slow to keep up with the current speed in Warframe. The old Tesla had some pros to it like being able to snipe cameras with a quick toss of one Tesla. It's decent for a 1st skill, but honestly serves little to no purpose in actual missions unless you want to play around with the augment which is great when the Teslas actually reach their target.
- To improve the rollers, I would make them a lot faster and maybe even teleport them with the Vauban player (Wisp's Shock is so much better as it follows the player around)
2.0 Minelayer:
This ability as a whole feels still like a mess. It's impossible to micromanage the currently selected mine during heated battles and it's just better to stick with one of them.
- In this case I'd probably just combine the Flechette Orb and Overdriver somehow and scrap the other two.
2.1 Tether Coil:
This one is quite redundant. Seems to work randomly on enemies and they get stuck to geometry like 95% of the time. Not to mention the puny cap of 2 enemies held. The only use for this one is sniping cameras in Spy missions etc. (which was the old Tesla's job before the rework).
2.2 Flechette Orb:
It's decent fun to use in "lower" level missions. Of course the damage output isn't the best and scales poorly, but it's still decent.
2.3 Vector Pad:
Meh, you can have some fun with decent str build, but that's about it. It doesn't really serve any purpose in Vauban's kit.
2.4 Overdriver:
The best of the bunch, gives decent damage boost to yourself and allies.
- The duration could be longer, seems like you can't even refresh its duration by recasting it again.
- It's hard to give it to yourself/your target as pets can also pick it up.
- To make it really shine, make it possible for the operator to pickup the buff.
3. Photon Strike:
Photon Strike is mostly amazing. Great effects, good damage, scales well and the range is pretty much spot on. The only thing that bothers me is the long casting time especially on air and the long windup time before the strike. The old Vauban was unique before as all of his abilities were off-hand actions and they required little to no casting time. The new animations look good, but the Vauban's squishy playstyle suffers way too much because of them.
- Casting time should be a lot faster (especially on air)
- Windup time before the strike should be faster
4.1 Bastille:
Aah, my favorite skill of the old Vauban's kit. The added armor strip is amazing, but it seems to only work on enemies that are held by the Bastille. Enemies stunned by other abilities/ragdolls/elemental effects completely bork its functionality. Also forcing it to turn into a Vortex at the end feels really awkward to me. We can turn them into Vortexes if we want, why force it? Also just like with Photon Strike, the new animations are just way too slow. This is Vauban's bread and butter and only thing that keeps him alive. Making him take forever to cast it just makes him even more prone to damage and dying.
- Armor strip should apply to ALL enemies within the Bastille's range (whether held by the actual Bastille or not)
- Remove the forced Vortex conversion at the end
- Casting time should be a lot faster (especially on air)
- Energy cost should be lowered back to 75
4.2 Vortex:
Vortex got pretty much only buffs with the rework. The range addition and the synergy with Photon Strike make Vortex a blast.
- Casting time should be a lot faster (especially on air)
- Energy cost should be lowered to 75
All in all I'm happy that Vauban received his long awaited rework. It may not be perfect, but it's still better than the old one. The casting animations for his 3/4 and the armor strip functionality on his Bastille are the most pressing problems at the moment. With a few tweaks and fixes he can be in a very good spot. 🚂
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Yay, Vauban rework is finally here! Now I can die happy. 🚂
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1 minute ago, Kaiser_Suoh said:
My wasted time... i need compensation.
Lol, for what? 😄
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I might be the only one, but I really dislike the new dynamic "butt flaps" for the default Vauban (and tennogen skins). I have gotten so used to the old flaps that were static and sat smoothly at the back of his legs that the new dynamic ones look so weird on him.
I know that reverting the change might not be an option and adding a toggle option for this kind of stuff is probably a bit pointless and time consuming. Anyway I just thought about posting my feedback about the change 😄
Also the butt flaps are broken on the prime skins atm. It always show the prime flaps instead of the skin chosen (Prime details toggle does nothing).
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3 hours ago, Gromnus said:
Not a bug, Select the skin again and under regalia should be a prime toggle, will toggle the prime parts.
It doesn't. The prime butt flaps still remain.
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9 minutes ago, Dezeption said:
At the same time, the prime issue is not that it would rival Nekros - but that it can't out-shine other beasts too hard 😞 A change like you suggested would just make everybody run Chesa no matter what which isn't quite the goal...
However, you are absolutely right. As it is right now, you might as well use the smeeta if you wanna farm materials. It kinda feels like the double pickup + guaranteed rare material outshines this ... Super heavy RNG desecrate 😞 I am also hoping for a change - I always love extra loot, but I have a strong preference for kubrows rather than kavats based on their looks alone. >_>
Even with my suggested changes the Chesa wouldn't really rival Smeeta. Smeeta provides a long buff that doubles pretty much everything you pickup and is the go-to companion for Kuva runs. All I'm asking is a fair version of Desecrate that wouldn't make Nekros obsolete, but would still provide a decent amount of extra loot.
Also as a Kubrow main myself I'm pretty sure the Kubrows are still trailing in popularity compared to other companions. Smeeta has been really popular even before the Fetch mod and I believe it might even be in the top 3 at the moment. And Adarza is still nice one to take on Eidolon hunts.
If you look at the companion usage from last October you can see how badly the Kubrows are staggering behind:
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Small tweaks like reducing the cooldown to 2~5 seconds, making the chance 100% or the ability to target 2-3 corpses would do wonders for this ability. In its current state the mod is simply useless. It's highly inconsistent, has a long cooldown and a poor success chance.
I'm really disappointed to be honest, but still hope that DE gives it a decent tweak before Chesa is forgotten again.
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17 hours ago, Momaw said:
Single-target Desecrate on a 10 second timer doesn't seem like a very compelling mod. Poor Chesa has had a rough life, hasn't it.
Indeed. Not to mention that it's 45% chance to roll one corpse/container every 10 seconds. I guess it's almost decent when you have 4 Chesa's in your party. I've been running solo since the update and rarely see any desecrating by my Chesa.
Small tweaks like reducing the cooldown to 3~5 seconds, making the chance 100% or the ability to target 2-3 corpses would do wonders for this ability and still wouldn't make it rival the real Desecrate that Nekros has.
I'm really disappointed to be honest, but still hope that DE would give it a decent tweak before Chesa is forgotten again.
Why does Bastille forcibly turn into Vortex again?
in Warframes
Posted
For one Bastille is the one that strips armor from enemies and gives you armor. Enemies that are ragdolled (pulled by Vortex) won't be stripped of their armor. Vortex also attracts the Photon Strikes (only for the host mind you) making them much more annoying to target. Also the forced conversion makes it impossible to use both Bastilles and Vortexes at the same time depending on situation. There are times when you'd want to have couple Bastilles around and toss a Vortex in another place, but you can't do that without collapsing every Bastille into a Vortex.
Also at the moment the "invert TAP/HOLD abilities" option is really clunky to use for Vauban as changing the option makes Vortex the TAP option, but the collapse button for Bastille remains HOLD. This makes it so that you can only have one Bastille as you can't toss another one without causing the first one to collapse into a Vortex. And that's just bad.
There really is no reason to force the Bastille to Vortex conversion for players. Simply making it that TAP casts Bastille and HOLD casts Vortex would make it so much better to use. I love Bastille and would like to keep stripping armor and holding enemies neatly in place.