Cubewano
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Posts posted by Cubewano
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
Well and the raids. Just a small nitpick. But including it for the sake off honesty. (Putting every enemy out of commission when you needed to just made them less of a headache then respawning them constantly.)
You did miss something though. It doesn't make you completely wrong, but its something you should consider.
Currently in Archwing, specifically of the Railjack variety, Tank and CC is king. Amesha currently makes enemies less of a pain to deal with and removes a bit of their threat by being harder to kill. (CC is king in railjack with Void Hole now that I think about it too.... ) But back to my point. These are current cases of the CC meta existing in warframe, because the damage options aren't sufficient.
It's faster and easier to deal and kill enemies using CC with Amesha then say Elytron/Odonata or the Itzal, or pull all the enemies together with void hole and blast away.
So Warframes need to have nukers so players have the option of faster paced content. Removing them, gives you the current Railjack meta.CC was prominent in raids certainly but I wouldn't quite coin it the exclusive meta as that content necessitated/promoted a range of roles. Even more so in the second one.
And I'm not sure what relevance Archwing has to standard ground combat, both modes exist in different balance ranges with different power tools, they aren't a very useful comparison for this discussion. If Archwings were more durable and Archguns dealt more damage as they do in standard ground combat however I would imagine there would be more diversity than just Amesha, but again extremely different modes existing in extremely different balance states. And if they dealt too much damage, or killed too efficiently, it would in kind just reverse the meta process, perhaps at an even steeper cost of engagement/active play.
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25 minutes ago, protecttheplanet said:
I had fun soloing every sortie. Even with a fully build chroma and a synapse with a riven the disruption I think 2 days ago was almost close. With the electromagnetic interferences I had to be cautious about stepping into them amd losing my energy and to not magus lockdown the suicide guys in the clouds bc they are invulnarable there. Just soloing is fine and if thats not enough I can unequip ur own mods, no need to nerf stuff for something that requires two clicks from you
Respectfully having to cut yourself off from multiple game systems, matchmaking, modding/gear progression, and a select weapon/frame categories, is not a good sign that things are fine much less in an ideal/acceptable state. That a perceived solution for continued engagement in a co-op looter is to isolate yourself from others and turn off your rewards/progression should be something of a concerning solution to arrive at if anything.
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6 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:
The CC meta existed before the damage meta we have now. I wasn't talking about recent. I'm basically stating the fact that the game will revert back to the CC meta (Since CC is more powerful then it has ever been with frames like Limbo) if damage frames lose their ability to make missions more efficient with damage.
CC frames will take over again, where ignoring enemies is preferable or the best method to fight said hordes of enemies is take away their ability to fight.
I personally detest Destiny 2. I really don't like how that game feels or plays, or how long it takes to kill the average enemy. But I quite like the idea of being able to turn up the difficulty for increased rewards.
As of right now, if the fastest way to farm materials is kill enemies as quickly as possible, doesn't that give players the incentive to mass murder low tier enemies for their resources?
I actually feel like this isn't a problem of power creep, but scaling rewards. I'd love to be able to pick enemy levels like I can in the Simulcrum and get rewarded with a more efficient farm.
I think the higher the level enemy is? The difference between a level 10 enemy dropping loot and a level 30 enemy dropping loot should be a 3x increase on base materials, and even mod chance. Won't hold my breath on it, but would be a nice change.CC frames only ever took over where endless content came into play, in a time where we scaled vastly less than we do now, in damage, in range, in durability, the CC meta of the past is never coming back unless we revert absolutely all power growth in the game since that period and some content design choices as well to promote endless content again, not merely the removal of nukes, and note all that would still largely apply just to endless content. In the CC meta standard missions were still highly diverse because there was no big leaps in mission optimization between most frames, CC was very powerful late game but that was about it, and DPS was very powerful early game, and the bulk of the game existed in mid progression where things weren't difficult enough to necessitate CC but not easy enough that you were storming the map in an instant with a nuke ability either, and that inbetween left a satisfying area where a player felt valuable with any option of frame. Now CC has no place, tanks hold end game, and nukes dominate everything else to an extreme that makes other playstyles feel unrewarding and unnecessary.
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11 hours ago, Fallen77 said:
Sooo, I was originally giving my two cents on the topic at hand and anticipating answers that we both know (don't be naive), were coming.
And yet your sentiments aren't to be seen, just people correcting you on them. Best to stave off putting words in others peoples mouths unless you are fully able to appreciate and research their stances before hand. If you want to have a fair and proper debate address the people in the thread, not the fictitious boogeymen in your mind.
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buff to my build flexibility so that's progress to me. if shotguns are weaker after we can just shift numbers around, but the whole pellet status interaction was always a weird mechanic that needed stabilizing for the sake of more consistent balance values and broader build options. we may not immediately get that kind of balance of course, but this is at least opening the door to it, or so I believe.
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10 hours ago, DeccanTraps said:
What if we had a system that rewarded us for deliberately undermodding? Call it Honour / Pragmatisim as a sliding scale.
The Pragmatic Tenno is your '4 forma, potao and prime mods' walking apocalipse dropping full size drop ships with a side arm.
The Honourable Tenno uses more traditional weapons, basic modding, will have to move and shoot much more actavely, face harsher chalenges, but could get, well, what would make it worth it? past a differnt gaming experiance?How would that operate on a multiplayer scale though? And how would the disproportionate power values between certain frames and weapons be handled with it? The problem with power creep isn't solely the impact it has on our highest net strength, but also how it can drive rivets in relative weapon balance and diversity. And then further fragmenting that with the splitting of available rosters for matchmaking is just...I'm not sure it'd be all that effective.
11 hours ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:So the two approaches is nerf the entire game till nobody has fun anymore, or go get the challenge you want in an endurance run for either kuva survival or otherwise. The grunts aren't going to be a challenge to anyone decently geared.
Those are not remotely the only options and i cannot sincerely believe you do not know that, this hyper exaggerated concept that this game can only exist in extremes despite it's entire history of fluid balance shifts while remaining a perceived power fantasy action game proves that. We can have more enemy engagement while keeping horde shooter elements, we can similarly have more challenge while keeping horde shooter elements, it isn't some faux black and white debate. I also don't think you really get to dictate the concept of fun for a game, or like that you're presenting one side as just anti fun when I'm similarly sure you know that isn't the case either.
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5 minutes ago, Fallen77 said:
It's a good thing that it was removed.
For those "so good at the game", it won't change a thing for you right ? Since you can predict at all time when your kavat is gonna TP / jump in front of you right ?
For the oh so poor chroma mains that will have to actually play Chroma's kit as intended during hunts, get over yourself. Getting such armor and damage boost by simply shooting once at your feet was ridiculous and you know it. No ability that works around taking damage should work by simply shooting yourself, that defits the purpose of managing threat/reward.
What is left ? People wondering about realism in a space robot zombie ninja with magic powers video game... Need I say more.
So yes, it's a very good change, no reason to cling onto selfdamage, no reason to barther for keeping some selfdamage, appart for those that previously went high and beyond to prove how pivotal it is to WF gameplay loop (spoiler, it's not).
Interesting that you decide to argue with a fictional strawman for your defense instead of addressing some of the actual arguments being made in this thread.
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22 minutes ago, Aldain said:
Self damage can rot in the same dumpster as the unavoidable Lich backbreaker revive tax.
I don't care what anyone says, anything that kills or can kill a player instantly for reasons that outside of a players control or ability to predict (allies running in front of you and RNG Requiems respectively) deserves to die a brutal Doom-level death.
By that logic enemies should be removed from the game, their spawns, accuracy, locations, priority order, unit type, etc are all relatively rng aspects than can result in an instant death should the instance fit, just like self damage weapons. Everything in a game can't be hyper safe and without risk/failure elements, or well I suppose it can but I wouldn't think that the best design decision to go for.
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7 hours ago, 844448 said:
And even when DE lowered the engangement, we still have people complaining things are too hard so should I start giving feedback to DE to increase the engagement through many means? I don't think you will like my suggestions because that means one second of losing attention and you may lose your life.
Also, call me simple but I like the gameplay today, sitting back after a day, just pulling the trigger and see enemies dropping like nothing while laughing when I launch them away using explosive weapons. If they want that engagement, we have railjack grineer from earth to veil proxima so why don't they play there? Aren't they far beyond star chart level now?
I mean first of all you can't satisfy everyone, that's just the reality of a world with such varied interests, but also difficulty and engagement are again not inherently the same thing, easier content can be more engaging, harder content can be disengaging, it's all dependent on the approaches made and also the type of audience receiving it. That said lowering engagement just means making a game more boring.
And that makes me simple too, I like just blindly bashing enemies to bits as well is a moderate to low effort environment, it's the entire reason I enjoy beat em ups and musou like games, and probably part of the draw for Warframe, but that interest only extends so far when I'm reaching the point where I'm not even seeing the enemies or really feeling the combat that comes with beating them, or as I mentioned before potentially even never getting to the combat at all because of wide gaps in power balance between certain playstylse along with the games inability to supply enough enemies for said playstyle in a group environment. I play a game to play, when the power reaches a point where I can be actively removed from combat that's no longer a satisfying power loop, at least for me. I don't get satisfaction just from knowing things are being beaten, I want to be an active part of said defeats.
7 hours ago, 844448 said:And look what they're fighting, god of war is kratos fighting another gods or mythical creatures, a god against a god. Devil may cry, a demon fighting another demon or whatever enemy in that game. Bayonetta, fighting angels I assume seeing the plot summary. See where it goes? You're a powerful being against another powerful being, not normal humans while we're fighting what basically mortal humans known as the grineer and corpus. If you want the so called challenge, that would mean bringing those deadly enemies like wyrmidon from Ivara leverian story with heavy armaments and armor
I don't think what they're fighting is all that relative though because none of those factions have a set strength, their strength is whatever the combat loop in the game allows them to be, their factions so to speak are just cosmetic/thematic, it's not a inherent gameplay element.The grineer and corpus and corrupted and infested are as threatening or not as the game decides them to be, as is their combat loops. You also can't honestly tell me our factions don't have the making of an intimating/powerful feeling enemy roster, the sentient are a hyper adaptive advanced self aware ai robot army, the infested are a sentient super virus that consumes everything in their path, the grineer are an endless chain of hyper loyal radicalized clone soldiers setting siege to an entire system, and the corpus is a flat out cult blinded by wealth funded with robotics and the most seemingly advanced science in the system. We have entire genres built around the sheer perceived threat level of most of those things and epic power struggles to defeat em.
7 hours ago, 844448 said:That's why DE starts to fix the balance right? I'll just enjoy the game and the tears from places
Changing balance, and I'm not really sure why DE keeps going all over the place in regards to Warframes game design honestly. It seems like they're just constantly trying out new things hoping if they do enough extreme things they'll find perfection.
7 hours ago, 844448 said:Reason we have multiple places for that. Kuva lich, sortie, railjack, normal star chart mission, nightmare mission, etc
Those are certainly attempts, though honestly I think cornered off pieces of content will never be enough since people need sustained satisfaction, and a majority of this game is still other places.
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18 hours ago, 844448 said:
Question is, do you really need that challenge just to have fun? I have my fun being god smiting mortals, not struggling after working on my knowledge and power like your mainstream games out there. Warframe is one game that breaks the norm and I like it
To some degree yes, everyone needs some level of mental engagement in any activity to enjoy it, the range of what can engage someone varies certainly but there always needs to be some level of attention being prompted by an activity to keep it anything but mind numbingly boring. For some people Warframes increasing dive into very simplified gameplay can remove that engagement for players, it can also lessen the life span of when you do have periods of engagement since simple acts tend to over less diverse experiences and in turn make for a more repetitive experience through play sessions, which can be a definite problem for a high repetition based game like Warframe.
hello constant content drought complaintsAnd understand none of that means a player if they want more complex play are against feels powerful in a game, you can look at god of war, bayonetta, devil may cry, all games that build themselves around you being super powered gods (literally even for one) it just means the way they experience that power/engagement tool is different. You say you enjoy being a god smiting mortals, I do too, but I felt more like that years ago when combat was more paced and enemy had a presence to recognize in the game, as opposed to now where I almost forget enemies exist because they die so quickly and it's hard to even feel powerful because I'm barely even engaging with the combat features to make it feel like I'm doing a powerful deed. Suffice to say I need to feel action in my gameplay to feel powerful, so to me a tighter game balance grants that, rather than moments where I half afk watch netflix because I'm doing a mission and enemy just fall over like flies, or even worse, I'm in a mission with a moderately geared meta player to which I may not even see action at all because another cost of this growing power creep is that most missions can no longer facilitate a co-op experience or otherwise a full team of players.
So it's great that you think Warframe is a fulfilling power fantasy and that might be your truth, to others it might not feel that way because the way it has started to be approached doesn't give the same feedback you are getting, I mean Warframe has been through so many drastic changes in balance over the years but the entire time it has reserved its place as a power fantasy-esque game and that should speak to the range of what that term means or can be expressed through.
Note also I'm not saying these differing ways of feeling power are incompatible, I believe this game could do a better job satisfying a broader crowd so far as levels of engagement go and probably has at times been at such points, but all those views and differences are definitely more complex that just wanting or not wanting engagement, wanting or not wanting a power fantasy, wanting or not wanting difficulty, it's not as black and white as our community sometimes likes to present it as.
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24 minutes ago, (XB1)YoungGunn82 said:
How bout Khora Deluxe? 🤷 Zephyr Deluxe? Nah Ash and Excalibur need another one.
Khora deluxe started development early this year and Zephyr deluxe is getting a second deluxe concept into rotation sometime this year in the aim of her having at least one fully released deluxe this year, neither will probably be done until the later half of the year however. As for Ash and Excalibur deluxe, while I'm not sure why Ash got a another deluxe so soon Excalibur sort of warranted getting one given he didn't really have a true deluxe up until that point, Excalibur Proto exists but its not strictly seen as a deluxe and has a far more limited range of design choice, he's also the games poster boy and would be fantastic sales.
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Wish they'd mentioned Hydroid deluxe. v_v
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Sounds just about DE
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1 minute ago, 45thTiger said:
Hey DE
With Tennocon 2020 around the corner in July this year do you think its safe for the mass gathering in London Ontario Canada.
I know of another game company that has called off their Fanfest due to the CoranaVirus outbreak worldwide.
Just giving you guys a heads up to be safe.
And if someone who attends the Tennocon dose not have the Virus that make people ill.
Thinking about you guys
DE is actively assessing the risks of holding a physical convention this year as shared on last dev stream and as of now we don't actually know if there will even be that part of the convention held at all depending on how the virus continues to play out. Just as we should definitely all stay aware and informed of the corona virus and the risks of travel and furthermore the inclusion in large events DE are also aware and will do what they feel is necessary to keep their community and staff safe as well.
We should all of course stay safe, keep an eye out on updates on the virus, and behave accordingly to future developments, just as DE will similarly do.
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1 hour ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:
people don't like being weaker, in any regard. in other news, the sky is blue.
the concept of a nerf itself isn't bad, it's the implementation - the way it is carried out - that decides whether it's good or bad. if a proposed nerf is too heavy handed, then yes, we should speak up about it, but generally speaking DE have always tried to take with one hand and give back something else with the other. a good example is the proposed self-damage changes: self damage Chroma builds will be scrapped, but they're making explosive weapons outright more powerful, with ~20% more damage and an even bigger radius.
until changes actually roll around, people need to chill out and if there's something they take issue with, actually discuss it rather than just post "OMG DE WTF?"
people more so just don't like the notion of being weaker, becaue realistically feeling weaker and stronger in a game is far more nuanced than just buffs and nerfs, and just looking at the barest sentiment of either practice doesn't tell you which outcome you will get.
the thing is people flip out at any nerf anywho without even seeming to consider where it'll go, even vague theoretical ones with not even an expressed plan, like it can only be bad which is just not at all true. Melee 2.999999 got negative reactions before it landed and had mud slung at it up until days after it was out because people just compulsively react to key text and not the hands on effects, and then here we are today with it being this very embraced rebalance that made the game feel way better despite being a overarching nerf. people frenzied over wukongs survivability nerf but again turned out fantastic. but these trigger reactions that relay no actual meaningful truths or information seem to be freezing de all the same and its such a worthless mess. even de's very act of hesitation further spurs on the kind of irrational behavior as well it feels as it makes outrage posters (which is pretty much what people who just immediately jump on any concept of change with instant disdain are) just feel vindicates in their hyper paranoia of the term nerf.
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2 minutes ago, kwlingo said:
Actually most content in Warframe is non co-op, we have either nukers doing all the kills or speed frames killing all enemies while everyone chases behind hoping to find stragglers from everyday mission and sorties. The only time I see co-op is when players organize long survivals, speed runs on boss fights like Profit taker/ Eidolons.
Just because bad co-op elements exist that doesn't change this being a co-op game, Waframe for the large part is played in groups of players in a co-op environment.
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1 minute ago, kwlingo said:
I highly doubt this because even when your allies or your Kavat jump in front of you, it can trigger the self damage kill.
A simple solution is to have a toggle option in options menu, turning on self-damage for the really good players and off for everyone else who don't care for it.
Good for you but it's the truth, team mates are probably the closest to a not fully deserved self inflicted death for me and even that is like rare, and again is one area I would probably agree is fair grounds to invalidate self damage on.
And that solution doesn't really do anything, at all. The problem is how this change affects overall game balance, not personal difficulty values, this is a co-op game balance doesn't happen in individualized bubbles.
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27 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:
To me it happened too often.
But this whole thing could have been solved so easily. By either having a trigger range or just by giving us a range indicator. Actually I even made a post about the latter.
Just seeing where the projectile lands and what range the explosion has would have been grand in my opinion.
Or if we really want self damage then make it deal... damage. Instead of insta killing us. Like a 70% damage to health or whatever.
All ample solutions that I'd back, a distance indicator in particular could definitely be quite peachy, also some damage buffs because some self damage weapons definitely didn't scale up to their risks.
That people were pretty quick to change their tune about self damage on bramma once they realized how much of a punch it packed was a solid showing of how effective proper stat balancing can be for self damage -
3 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:
I kinda see your point but unfortunatelly in warframe you can easily shoot an invisible wall or (because of the Horde shooter aspect) an enemy would always be there behind you, running or teleporting into the crossair and kamikaze it self and you. In Orb Vallis Overtakers can shoot the projectiles of your weapon, blowing you up of course.
Regardless of how powerfull an explosive is in warframe they should all have similar safety mechanics to the Lenz because all of the reasons above.
Because again there were several situations where you couldn't predict if you're going to kill yourself.
I've honestly never had either of those things be an issue so I can't relate, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I'm just more spatially aware than I give myself credit, but I really only ever die to self damage from my own foolishness and not making sure I'm firing at a safe distances or for some frames keeping up the right protective abilities. There aren't that many melee enemy units in the game and those that exist are so noticeable for the most part and easy to maneuver around given how great a mobility system this game has, and with invisible walls I'm not sure how much a thing that even is, but also is it that difficult to not fire super close to near objects? Like even if invisible walls exist, they definitely aren't massive, and you'd have to be aiming fairly close to a clear physical object.
The only safety Mechanic I do sort of agree is warranted under present self damage rules would have been friendlies not setting them off since that's a little less easy to control, and also just not something you should have to be hyper cautious of.
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13 hours ago, o0Despair0o said:
Everything that breaks the Meta is pure gold if you ask me.
It's going to reinforce the meta a.k.a aoe weapons > all else
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4 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:
Now Hikou Prime and most thrown secondaries could use an actual buff.
Why buff truly under performing weapons when you can buff the most potent weapon designs in the game i.e high damage aoes
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38 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:
Yes because in every game ppl blow themselfes up all the time. Hell real life soldiers blow themselfes up all the time with Rpgs am i right?
Anyways in warframe self damage has no place with teleporting enemis and faulty hit boxes and blowing yourself shouldn't be a common thing.
Because self damage for heavy explosive weapons is totally not a standard design/balance practice in games, and we totally didn't have a big balance problem the last time we had an explosive that didn't deal self damage /s
The only mistake DE did with self damage (apart from now apparently removing it whole sale for however long this lasts) was not making sure the damage scaled properly to make all explosive weapons consistently powerful nukes. With the gramma we saw a very strong example of how an self damage weapon can be justified if it has the right pay off for being used correctly, likewise with the Lenz which was a very well balanced explosive weapon as well, if you couldn't handle self damage weapons that was on you not them, but them having trade offs is fully reasonable and justified. Now we're heading a direction that will only complicate matters as the gap between weapon types grows ever larger and non-aoe weapons become all the more irrelevant.
And all this after we just saw how much work it takes to undo massive power gaps once cemented with melee 2.99999
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6 hours ago, Lion said:
Just going to remind everyone, yes the removal of self damage is bad for Chroma, but it's great for the other 40+ frames out there. As for Chroma mains, there are other ways to take damage besides blowing up your feet. Sure, none quite as mindless but the options remain there.
And bad for like over 3/4 of the weapon arsenal. As nice as removing self damage and making explosives weapons stronger sounds it's just going to create an ever larger power gap between weapon types, and inevitably force some kind of massive nerf or even full of redesign and simplification of primaries and secondaries in the future.
We just got done dealing with this problem in melee weapons and now we're apparently intensifying it in another.
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On 2020-02-27 at 5:05 AM, (NSW)Sniperfox47 said:
...in a game that's designed around being a mob action power fantasy...
in a mode that doesn't have large amounts of mobs
Warframe Powercreep
in General Discussion
Posted
Can you really though? With nuke frames as potent as they are? Or aoe weapons? When a single meta player can scrub a level of all enemies with impunity regardless of the availability of play for the rest of said group? You can really only roll this dice and hope that works out vaguely, and with a less and less probable chance of said events working out the more you progress. I'd also pose there is a fine line between something being challenging and something being engaging/active, I'd don't care much for challenge either, I'm not looking to be particularly pushed when playing Warframe or learning notably complex acts, but I do enjoy being able to actually do and feel like I am doing something of overall impact for the game while I'm playing, I'd like to at the most feel present, and never seeing an enemy or rarely seeing them doesn't meet that desire. And not being able to use your rewards is effectively no different from turning them off, if you have to exclude their presence, their progress, they may as well not exist.
Note I don't use meta weapons for the most part personally, I don't even really play Saryn these days despite actually enjoying her overall playstyle simply because I feel she is just wholly unfriendly to the co-op experience, but all the same the imbalances affect me by the very nature of this games co-op aspects which can't be denied by any single individual, at least not without again notably harsh and not truly ideal compromises, which shouldn't be the default for making a gameplay loop work.