XAN3MK

I agree, mostly, with the caveat that Warframe's AoE options extend to melee and abilities, through which the AoE-centric status quo can still be maintained, even if explosive AoE weapons are curbed. It is the reason why I think that most people miss the forest for the tree and this *cough* arsenal divide is more a result of how content and enemies are designed rather than just being an issue with the gulf of power between certain pieces of equipment. That said, both DE and the community will have to settle on what kind of game Warframe is or wants to be. I don't particularly like horde shooters as such, not do I play Warframe for that aspect of it, it's just the aspect that I have to deal with on daily basis hence why I tackle it in the most effective way possible. Assuming we are to diversify both the gameplay, the arsenal/tools and the content, in which direction is Warframe going to go? If its Gears of Warframe, huddling behind walls and popping out to fire few shots at that 'one dangerous enemy', I'd like to be noted in time so I can check out. Cover-based and "tactical" shooters plagued this industry for over a decade before Doom '16 and the resurgence of "boomer shooters" in the middle 2010s happened and showed it how shooters are supposed to be designed. If, however, Doom '16/Eternal, arena shooters or Vanquish are to be used as a blueprint, then I'm listening.

This answer is hitting the nail on the head - and this same answer could be applied to all and every thread of similar ilk that pops up despite the subject being beaten to death over and over again, yet coming to the same conclusion. I'll even bold out the relevant part: The only relevant matter is whether alternate options are actually viable. It doesn't matter if K-Bramma kills a horde quicker than K-Karak, what matters is if K-Karak is sufficient enough to clear content in a reasonable manner. If the answer was no, nerfing K-Bramma wouldn't change that to a yes. As much as some segments of the community bemoan the ineffectiveness of assault rifles/semi-auto/snipers for general content, that won't change by nerfing explosive weapons. The people who care about effectiveness will just move down the totem pole to the next best thing that can mow down a room. I'm sorry, but if the goal at hand is to deal with 50 enemies streaming into the room every 5 or so seconds, I'm going to opt for a weapon that can make those 50 enemies disappear in that time frame. DE have effectively designed single target/precision weapons out of the game by leaning heavily on its horde shooter aspect. Unless that changes and we no longer have to deal with fodder enemies 90% of the time (aside few select cases), we are going to opt for solutions that clear crowds effectively, be it explosive weapons, melee weapons, room clearing abilities or a combination of them. Single target ballistic weapons are so far down the list of choices, they might as well not exist.

Option 2 is off the table, most likely, as its not going in favors of both DE and the players and outside some of the balance chasms created over the years, Warframe doesn't need such radical solutions. Option 1 is the way to go, however it comes with few caveats, mostly on DE's side of things. Ideally, they'll slowly touch up and update the older frames/frames that are falling behind. It'd be done mostly by numbers and functionality tweaking, but without requiring new art assets. While this might not fully bring them in line with the top dogs, it should uplift them or at least bring them in line with where Warframe is nowadays, with as little manpower being spent on this process. This relates to something that DE's Pablo mentioned during the TennoCon livestream and that's that reworks don't generally improve the usage numbers of a reworked frame. Iirc, Nezha was used as an example - despite the fact that the rework put Nezha in a very good place (and they are still in a very good place), their use didn't really increase. This leads me to another option, and one that DE have actively been using over the years, directly and indirectly -- Option 1.1, releasing new frames that cannibalize the functionality of older ones. Simplest example would be Gara being an updated version of Frost or how 1/3 of Wisp's 1 overtakes the whole reason for Oberon's existence (aside few specialized use-scenarios) This is obviously a contentious solution, as it doesn't help players that like the aesthetics of the cannibalized warframe, but ultimately is beneficial to both the players and DE, as the spirit of a certain Warframe is preserved and uplifted to the current state of the game, while DE get to release a new frame that supports their optics and content release schedule (as long as that frame is well designed and released in a good state, which was not the case with their latest release, which lead to more work for 'em as Yareli was DoA and now needs extensive touch ups to be made even borderline functional/usable) This is going to be a contentions subject and another can of worms, especially if it brings the idea of Warframe Rivens into the players heads. I almost certainly expect such change to send the community in uproar and not in a positive way. And then there's the problem of such shift coming too late into the Helminth system's life cycle - the system's been out for a year now, and radical changes to how people interact with the system is going to rub them the wrong way, especially if some have heavily invested in it and now all of a sudden they've had their investment invalidated. Ofc, it is within DE's power to do this, but it won't win them any favors. The temporary invigorations kind push people to dusting off some unused frames, but it is not really a long term solution for two reasons: 1) Temporary buff, so at best it'll change things up for a week, before going back to normal. 2) Its a random buff, which may or may not move the needle. An example: I got a 100%(?) increased duration of Loki last week. Aside a gimmicky Gloom setup, none of my other configs genuinely benefited from it, as I generally mod Loki for max duration as is and only have to press 2 once every 30 seconds. In the case of the Gloom config, it bumped the duration of Invisibility from 20s to 34ish, which is convenient, but largely doesn't change anything significantly.

Because its useless for Heavy Attack builds and once you go down the path of Heavy Attack, going back to combo builds is one of the most miserable experiences in this game. Even if the above was not the case, there are far, FAR better weapons to choose from. Skiajati is e mediocre/middle-of-the-road weapon at best.

Isn't most of Fortuna's Op gear utilitarian. Maybe not in the style that you'd want, but it is certainly utilitarian (miner/construction worker/manual labor equipment) And while I won't be the one to tout the "Buht muh Lore!" horn, utilitarian gear makes little sense for the Tenno themselves. You are literally a void mage that can slip into Void Mode on demand to evade any hazards a utilitarian equipment could protect you from. Aside style, there would be no reason for the Tenno to be bogged down by bulky gear.

The problem with that is that all augments are not made equal. Some are utility, some are outright dead weight/DoA, while others are direct increase of power and/or build defining. Sure, you can give a free augment to Hydroid or Frost, but you are also giving a free augment to Saryn, Mirage or Rhino. The statement above extends to @Ciennas 's idea too - this is not a Helminth issue, this is a frame design issue, one that can not be solved by an auxiliary system. Any player with understanding of how Warframe's systems interact/work knew this will be the outcome, the overall power curved being pushed upwards rather than the power gap being closed between the top tier frames and the ones bellow them. Sure, I could subsume new ability on Loki or Frost, both of which have at least 2 "dead" ability slots and improve them considerably, but I can also do the same to Mesa, Protea or Octavia, to immensely improve their already great scaling. And to go back to your original idea, which reads like free, innate augments, do you really want to give Rhino or Mirage free Ironclad Charge or Explosive Legerdemain? It'll just give them a free mod slot to scale even further in power, while the frames that could actually use this push would still fall behind. Hell, you could lift restriction on a frame-by-frame basis, as terrible as that idea is, and you'd still not resolve the primary, underlying, issue. TL;DR: This is a frame design problem, not a Helminth problem, an auxiliary system will not solve the problem. Helminth just amplifies this problem and makes it glaringly obvious.

Considering that Galvanized Shot exists, having as many statuses as possible is a boon.

Somebody likes Lady Maria of the Astral Clocktower a bit too much.

Pretty much this. We are way past the point of no return, the game has simply designed single target weapons out of relevance in 90% of the use-case scenarios. Outside of the very few scenarios, where a hard hitting singular damage instances are favored due to DR (ex. Eidolons) or high quantity of low/medium damage is favored due to bypassing the adaptive DR better (ex. Sisters), there are no scenarios in general gameplay in which you won't favor wider AoE radius over single target damage. When all your shots deal enough damage to kill every single enemy on the normal Star Chart few times over, all that matters is how many targets you can kill with that shot. Nerfing Explosive weapons won't fix the problem, this is not a simple statistical problem, it's a design approach problem. The playerbase will just go back to using melee exclusively - the next best thing for AoE clear. What I find surprising is that many didn't have the foresight to see this current scenario playing out. The moment DE said that they won't be tweaking weapons on a case-by-case basis and just adding (band aid) mods to sort things out, this was the only possible outcome - already decent AoE weapons eclipsing all other weapons in the arsenal. The writing was on the wall.

We don't need more power creep in an already power crept game. At least warframes still have some sense of variety when it comes to modding, since its a tug of war between maximizing certain stats, sinking others and making space for defensive mods on top. I'd prefer this to be expanded on, rather than reducing this variety for the sake of comfort.

I stand corrected. Went back and dug up the video just to be sure. that said, I still don't think they'll commit resources to her any time soon. A DOA frame like her needs serious reworks, not minor buffs and tweaks.

To play devil's advocate, Reb did mention in a livestream that aside the buffs she got post release, if they are going to look into any further buffs/tweaks/changes, it'll be after The New War launches. If Yareli is to get any further tweaks, it won't happen any time soon.

Not to play a white knight for DE, they surely don't need it, but the ending was announced with generous overhead and it was announced on Tennocon itself. People knew it was ending, those who didn't simply weren't paying attention.

This. I can't speak for everyone, but for me, this does few things: 1) I'll go back to farm them if they drop weapons. Mastery fodder is mastery fodder (as I don't expect good weapons to find their way on Star Chart bosses) 2) If its Orbiter decorations, I can safely ignore it. I've never used a single orbiter decoration and I likely never will. 2.a) Depending on how many of said decorations are added or what loot slots they'll occupy, they have the potential to become active hindrance and detriment to drops as now they get in the way of relevant drops and further dilute the loot tables. If you want to incentivize people to go back to the Star Chart bosses, you need evergreen gameplay-relevant rewards on them.

The missions are mind numbingly boring, the biggest challenge is not falling asleep. They are the equivalent of "Warframe, but with all the fun sucked out of it." I did them twice, solo for myself, then duo to help a friend. Solution to the "challenge": Hildryn, subsume Elemental Ward and change the element to electricity + use the Blazing Pillage augment. There, you've solved the run, the enemies just keel over. It only gets easier if you run it in a group. Add a Panzer Vulp on top for immortal pet + give yourself access to viral procs. (In case it is not clear, other warframe augments and unique companion precepts work in these missions)

I don't disagree with the notion on the whole, but there is an issue with how rewarding Defection and Salvage as modes are, as in, they are not, at all. Outside of the rotation that drops the warframe blueprtints, there is nothing rewarding about about the rest of the lootables, which is what makes them such problematic mission types. Both are unrewarding, time gated and end up wasting your time for nothing. If those issues were to be corrected, the perspective on those nodes would drastically change. I still don't have a second harrow for the Helminth, it is the only frame I've not subsumed, simply because I can not commit to long farm sessions without my brain going numb, not with each run lasting roughly 16 to 20min without the ability to drastically reduce the duration. I can sit 2+ hours in SP survival, I can not for the life of me do more than 2 or 3 defection runs, back to back, before my brain attempts to crawl out through my ear and run for the hills.

Poorly, IMO. I leveled her in SO and at no point were her abilities of any consequence, at least while within ~150 Power Strength. As for Steel Path, it is what I play on unless the content is not available on SP. With DE embracing SP more and more, especially with the recent changes and additions, I see no point in investing in a frame that is so grossly under performing. Yes, they are, which is what makes them perform so poorly, on top of the poor scaling. Being able to deal with armor is the determining factor of how well a frame or a weapon is going to perform on the Steel Path, as everything else dies just as easily as on the Star Chart (For example, there is little practical difference between fighting Star Chart and Steel Path infested)

What do you mean? The reason why I use a lv180 of that specific enemy? I find it the simplest way to simulate Steel Path enemies in the Simulacrum.

I humored myself and slapped 322% Power Strength on her (Blind Range, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify, Augur Secrets) and tested the damage vs lvl180 Kosma Gokstad Officers in the Simulacrum. Her 1 literally does tickles worth of damage, each damage instance doing between 18 and 48 damage, resulting in less then a pixel worth of damage on the enemy HP bar. Her 4 is not much better, when it comes to the big picture - it deals somewhere between 600 and 800 damage, but it is still an inconsequential pixel of the enemy HP bar at best. Her 3 fairs a bit "better", it can actually kill a target - if you hug them for ~18-20 seconds for the slash damage and procs to do their job. Keep in mind, this is with the AI turned off, if any of those targets could act, she'd be dead in seconds. The 75% DR on Merulina is questionable since the damage that'd bleed through on any relevant content will likely kill Yareli before Merulina's HP is depleted. To put it bluntly, Yareli is useless. You can scale the damage on her abilities tenfold and it would not be enough for content where it'd matter. As she is currently, even after the tiny buffs she receiver, she is DoA.

How should I know? Obviously somebody at DE found the concept interesting to greenlight this trainwreck of a frame.

I'm shocked that the playerbase figured a way around DE's idiotic adaptation system /s. I just hope that, in case they act, they won't push Banshee down the hole of irrelevance she's been stuck in for a good portion of the past decade and only recently found a way out due to the Sister's update. The irony of it all, I can think of handful other frames who can kill the Sisters with similar efficiency. Sure, they won't one-tap them the same way Sonar does that, but they'll still die in less than 20 seconds.

Yareli is literally a frame that was birthed because somebody found the concept interesting, but didn't bother to consider what kind of purpose or role she'll fill. As a result, we've ended up with a frame that has literally no reason to exist. She brings nothing to the table, doesn't do anything that other frames don't do better, her abilities have no synergy nor do they scale in any relevant or impactful way. Not even Helminth can save her - even if you subsume the disaster that is her #2, you are still left with the remaining of her useless kit. Before Yareli, Grendel was the other frame that found themselves in similar position - being a frame that has no practical purpose nor brings anything of note to the table. Yareli takes the number one spot by a long shot. At least you can play Grendel as discount Inaros, if you really have to, and get some results. Yareli? You can remove her from the game right now and nothing of value will be lost.

Ehh, I don't know OP, they can still be easily one-shot (the shield + the individual HP bars being their own instances ofc) if you bring the right setup.

If you were part of the superior cast of Heavy Attack build chads, literally nothing changed, aside the wind up time on Glaives being slightly increased. Glaives, Scythes or Gunblades still delete anything that walks on the map in 1-2 heavy attacks.

To my knowledge, it is an 'end of mission' reward, so a booster would not affect that. That said, I've never payed attention to whether it drops/is actively picked up, just that I've gotten it at the end of the run, so hopefully somebody else chimes in to confirm or deny this.