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XAN3MK

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Posts posted by XAN3MK

  1. Flat use of DR is the result of DE providing the players with power that far outweighs what the content they are putting out requires. It's either that or enemies explode, unless they rely excessively on immunity phases in their design. Even then, those Demolysts explode easily all the same, with the right approach. Explosive weapons work, Stropha works, stacked Khora Whip works, to name a few things. Bring a damage buffing ability and it is even less of a concern.

    • Like 1
  2. 1 hour ago, Soy77 said:

    Fyi my post was a joke and a sarcasm. Of course nobody can give someone a cookie then delete their website.

    With that being said, if some idiots drilled their kneecaps, sure it's the idiot's fault. But if so many idiots managed to drilled their kneecaps in unison, there's something wrong with the system which gives idiots access to drills.

    Either my sarcasm detector is malfunctioning or said sarcasm didn't translate very well through text alone. That said, I've ran across this sentiment before, both in relation to Warframe and other online games, where people were getting riled up against the tools instead of just sneering at those who don't know how to use them and moving on. Could never wrap my head around it.

    Eh, no, that's just natural selection doing it's thing and it'd be a shame to replace a system that is going the distance to support it. If people are going to learn the wrong lesson due to not understanding what they are reading, the consequences are on them, no skin off your or my back. (which might be very personal sentiment, as I tend to solo 90% of the activities I engage in. If somebody's playing often with pubs and are running into loadouts that end up being detrimental to their experience, I can certainly understand the sentiment.)

     

    P.S. I don't think this needs another post so I'll leave it here:
    I find wannab's weapon list much better and more consistent. While still subjective, it has a well outlined testing process.
    https://www.cephalonwannab.com/

    • Like 1
  3. 3 hours ago, Soy77 said:

    i think overframe should be deleted.

     

    i mean, sure the creators must've started with good intentions, etc. but right now it's just a misleading site that misleads rookie tennos.
    just give the creators some cookies, medals, let him/her/them retire in honor and move on, mates.

    some of the most upvoted stuff there are straight up trash, nominated by people who don't know what they're doing, upvoted by masses who don't know what they're doing.

    imho one of the most misleading thing about overframe is it shows people the tools, but it doesn't explain to them how to use it.
    one of many reasons why we have so many limbos running around with max range. noobs just copy paste but never bothered to learn the reason why and how.

    No.

    Overframe is one of the better warframe builders out there, with a more detailed stat breakdown than what the pitiful in-game UI can manage, not to mention providing you with the option to inspect subsumed ability scaling, something that the game can't do, for some abysmal reason.

    Scrapping a tool just because somebody doesn't know how to use it is like banning power drills just because some idiot drilled through their kneecap. It's a user error, not a tool error and it should be fixed at the user-level. Overframe provides tools and very good tools at that, if you know how to use them or sort and discern the things you are looking up. It's not it's job to teach the user how to use them. You don't ask the hardware store to teach you how to use the tools you are buying, are you?

    This post has nothing to do with the tierlist at Overframe, but rather the fact that for some reason, you would deem it reasonable that the whole tool (and a very valuable tool given how dysfunctional the in-game UI is) should be scrapped just because certain individuals have no clue how to use it or gauge what they are looking it. It makes no rational sense.

    • Like 6
  4. 13 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

    Agreed, mostly.

    DE have leant heavily on the horde-shooter aspect, but in a way that specifically favors AoE weapons in particular. Which is why other horde shooters still have viable single-target guns, but Warframe doesn't. They've allowed AoE weapons to have the same level of sustainability with access to ammo mutation or battery recharges, had the game primarily take place in corridors and other confined (usually flat) environments and designed the enemies to cluster in groups.

    Compare this to the likes of something such as Deep Rock Galactic which uses its highly 3D environment to good effect, using verticality and enemy mobility to spread enemies out even in its most twisting caves. Plus, DRG just has AoE weapons have fewer shots than their single target counterparts, making them a much more precious resource than their single-target counterparts. Similar methods are used for a lot of horde-combat games. Even the Warriors series tends to limit big, screen-clearing attacks to special moves.

    I agree, mostly, with the caveat that Warframe's AoE options extend to melee and abilities, through which the AoE-centric status quo can still be maintained, even if explosive AoE weapons are curbed. It is the reason why I think that most people miss the forest for the tree and this *cough* arsenal divide is more a result of how content and enemies are designed rather than just being an issue with the gulf of power between certain pieces of equipment.

    That said, both DE and the community will have to settle on what kind of game Warframe is or wants to be. I don't particularly like horde shooters as such, not do I play Warframe for that aspect of it, it's just the aspect that I have to deal with on daily basis hence why I tackle it in the most effective way possible. Assuming we are to diversify both the gameplay, the arsenal/tools and the content, in which direction is Warframe going to go? If its Gears of Warframe, huddling behind walls and popping out to fire few shots at that 'one dangerous enemy', I'd like to be noted in time so I can check out. Cover-based and "tactical" shooters plagued this industry for over a decade before Doom '16 and the resurgence of "boomer shooters" in the middle 2010s happened and showed it how shooters are supposed to be designed.

    If, however, Doom '16/Eternal, arena shooters or Vanquish are to be used as a blueprint, then I'm listening.

    • Like 1
  5. 2 hours ago, Yamazuki said:

    Melee also already does less damage to additional targets hit, and it's a significant drop per target that is noticeable on non-meta weapons.

    As for aoe meta, it makes no real sense to complain about x meta. The E in META is about effectiveness. Regardless, there is going to be a weapon type that is the most effective, and aoe isn't it for all content types. It isn't any different to how melee is only effective compared to guns in extended endless missions, but everywhere else it's specific guns or aoe damage.

    If you deleted aoe ranged damage from the game [including abilities], most weapons would still be ignored and a meta would still exist. The cycle would just restart and going from complaints over aoe meta, to complaints over the new x meta.

    The only relevant matter is whether alternate options are actually viable. It doesn't matter if K-Bramma kills a horde quicker than K-Karak, what matters is if K-Karak is sufficient enough to clear content in a reasonable manner. If the answer was no, nerfing K-Bramma wouldn't change that to a yes.

    DE has even been adjusting content to where aoe vs single target ends up not mattering with some content only having one relevant enemy. There's a lot of content that run on a timer, with no meaningful reward for killing enemies and some recent mission types and events aoe damage wasn't relevant.

    This answer is hitting the nail on the head - and this same answer could be applied to all and every thread of similar ilk that pops up despite the subject being beaten to death over and over again, yet coming to the same conclusion. I'll even bold out the relevant part:

    The only relevant matter is whether alternate options are actually viable. It doesn't matter if K-Bramma kills a horde quicker than K-Karak, what matters is if K-Karak is sufficient enough to clear content in a reasonable manner. If the answer was no, nerfing K-Bramma wouldn't change that to a yes.

    As much as some segments of the community bemoan the ineffectiveness of assault rifles/semi-auto/snipers for general content, that won't change by nerfing explosive weapons. The people who care about effectiveness will just move down the totem pole to the next best thing that can mow down a room. I'm sorry, but if the goal at hand is to deal with 50 enemies streaming into the room every 5 or so seconds, I'm going to opt for a weapon that can make those 50 enemies disappear in that time frame.

    DE have effectively designed single target/precision weapons out of the game by leaning heavily on its horde shooter aspect. Unless that changes and we no longer have to deal with fodder enemies 90% of the time (aside few select cases), we are going to opt for solutions that clear crowds effectively, be it explosive weapons, melee weapons, room clearing abilities or a combination of them. Single target ballistic weapons are so far down the list of choices, they might as well not exist.

    • Like 4
  6. 49 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

    I understand, but based on how You've explained it will need to ether,

    1.case by, case tweak/rework,balance of all frames 

    2.scrap Warframe for Warframe 2.0 and start over

     

    -For the first point we're hoping n, praying for some of the bttom tier frames to get help, and I find it hard to believe [DE] would fix it all (here's hoping tho 🤞 ).

    -Second if they scrap Warframe for Warframe 2.0 n, I can't transfer my stuff mainly the attachments,syandanas -_- I'm out that's a nail in the coffin scenario fur me. 

    So I share @Ciennas desire for less loved frames to see some action,use,purpose in game but ☝️ I have to ask @XAN3MKif you don't think auxiliary systems will help, what if anything would help in your opinion?

     

    Option 2 is off the table, most likely, as its not going in favors of both DE and the players and outside some of  the balance chasms created over the years, Warframe doesn't need such radical solutions.


    Option 1 is the way to go, however it comes with few caveats, mostly on DE's side of things. Ideally, they'll slowly touch up and update the older frames/frames that are falling behind. It'd be done mostly by numbers and functionality tweaking, but without requiring new art assets. While this might not fully bring them in line with the top dogs, it should uplift them or at least bring them in line with where Warframe is nowadays, with as little manpower being spent on this process.
    This relates to something that DE's Pablo mentioned during the TennoCon livestream and that's that reworks don't generally improve the usage numbers of a reworked frame. Iirc, Nezha was used as an example - despite the fact that the rework put Nezha in a very good place (and they are still in a very good place), their use didn't really increase. This leads me to another option, and one that DE have actively been using over the years, directly and indirectly --


    Option 1.1, releasing new frames that cannibalize the functionality of older ones. Simplest example would be Gara being an updated version of Frost or how 1/3 of Wisp's 1 overtakes the whole reason for Oberon's existence (aside few specialized use-scenarios) This is obviously a contentious solution, as it doesn't help players that like the aesthetics of the cannibalized warframe, but ultimately is beneficial to both the players and DE, as the spirit of a certain Warframe is preserved and uplifted to the current state of the game, while DE get to release a new frame that supports their optics and content release schedule (as long as that frame is well designed and released in a good state, which was not the case with their latest release, which lead to more work for 'em as Yareli was DoA and now needs extensive touch ups to be made even borderline functional/usable)

     

    19 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

    I don't know if this as been said before, but what if Infusions had dispositions like rivens?

    So a Mesa could have a dispo of 1/5 since she popular, and a warframe that doesn't see much use could have a dispo of 5/5

    That way the lower tier frames can catch up a bit.

    And I nooo this doesn't solve everything, top tier frames still get more powerful in some way, but I thought it would help.

    Also if such a system existed I'd like to see the ability to select the frame and infusions whenever we wanted.

    And no I don't think this would be broken cause, if the % for the top teir is low enough I believe will be fine. 

    This is going to be a contentions subject and another can of worms, especially if it brings the idea of Warframe Rivens into the players heads. I almost certainly expect such change to send the community in uproar and not in a positive way. And then there's the problem of such shift coming too late into the Helminth system's life cycle - the system's been out for a year now, and radical changes to how people interact with the system is going to rub them the wrong way, especially if some have heavily invested in it and now all of a sudden they've had their investment invalidated. Ofc, it is within DE's power to do this, but it won't win them any favors.

    The temporary invigorations kind push people to dusting off some unused frames, but it is not really a long term solution for two reasons:
    1) Temporary buff, so at best it'll change things up for a week, before going back to normal.
    2) Its a random buff, which may or may not move the needle.
    An example: I got a 100%(?) increased duration of Loki last week. Aside a gimmicky Gloom setup, none of my other configs genuinely benefited from it, as I generally mod Loki for max duration as is and only have to press 2 once every 30 seconds. In the case of the Gloom config, it bumped the duration of Invisibility from 20s to 34ish, which is convenient, but largely doesn't change anything significantly.

  7. Because its useless for Heavy Attack builds and once you go down the path of Heavy Attack, going back to combo builds is one of the most miserable experiences in this game.

    Even if the above was not the case, there are far, FAR better weapons to choose from. Skiajati is e mediocre/middle-of-the-road weapon at best.

  8. Isn't most of Fortuna's Op gear utilitarian. Maybe not in the style that you'd want, but it is certainly utilitarian (miner/construction worker/manual labor equipment)

    And while I won't be the one to tout the "Buht muh Lore!" horn, utilitarian gear makes little sense for the Tenno themselves. You are literally a void mage that can slip into Void Mode on demand to evade any hazards a utilitarian equipment could protect you from. Aside style, there would be no reason for the Tenno to be bogged down by bulky gear.

  9. 17 minutes ago, (XBOX)DragonMan 2700 said:

    Though I do like the idea of innate augment's in some way, Maybe like a single augment slot per frame that gave point's in the way that melee sttance mod's do, that'd be nice.

    The problem with that is that all augments are not made equal. Some are utility, some are outright dead weight/DoA, while others are direct increase of power and/or build defining. Sure, you can give a free augment to Hydroid or Frost, but you are also giving a free augment to Saryn, Mirage or Rhino.

     

    The statement above extends to @Ciennas 's idea too - this is not a Helminth issue, this is a frame design issue, one that can not be solved by an auxiliary system. Any player with understanding of how Warframe's systems interact/work knew this will be the outcome, the overall power curved being pushed upwards rather than the power gap being closed between the top tier frames and the ones bellow them. Sure, I could subsume new ability on Loki or Frost, both of which have at least 2 "dead" ability slots and improve them considerably, but I can also do the same to Mesa, Protea or Octavia, to immensely improve their already great scaling.

    And to go back to your original idea, which reads like free, innate augments, do you really want to give Rhino or Mirage free Ironclad Charge or Explosive Legerdemain? It'll just give them a free mod slot to scale even further in power, while the frames that could actually use this push would still fall behind. Hell, you could lift restriction on a frame-by-frame basis, as terrible as that idea is, and you'd still not resolve the primary, underlying, issue.

    TL;DR: This is a frame design problem, not a Helminth problem, an auxiliary system will not solve the problem. Helminth just amplifies this problem and makes it glaringly obvious.

    • Like 2
  10. 10 hours ago, Loza03 said:

    The problem is not that AoE weapons are better at dealing with hordes.

     

    The problem is that the game is nothing but dealing with hordes. Stealth, single-target damage, area denial and resource management are not aspects that are built into the game's design. They exist, don't get me wrong, but hell if you ever need to think about them outside of very specific scenarios, and even then, those scenarios are just as one-note and simplified. Stealth has long been whittled down to the point where it's discount invulnerability, resource management has stuff like Arcane Energize, Ammo Mutation and Life Strike removing all thought from it; and area denial, well, Limbo exists.

    Pretty much this.

    We are way past the point of no return, the game has simply designed single target weapons out of relevance in 90% of the use-case scenarios. Outside of the very few scenarios, where a hard hitting singular damage instances are favored due to DR (ex. Eidolons) or high quantity of low/medium damage is favored due to bypassing the adaptive DR better (ex. Sisters), there are no scenarios in general gameplay in which you won't favor wider AoE radius over single target damage. When all your shots deal enough damage to kill every single enemy on  the normal Star Chart few times over, all that matters is how many targets you can kill with that shot.

    Nerfing Explosive weapons won't fix the problem, this is not a simple statistical problem, it's a design approach problem. The playerbase will just go back to using melee exclusively - the next best thing for AoE clear. What I find surprising is that many didn't have the foresight to see this current scenario playing out. The moment DE said that they won't be tweaking weapons on a case-by-case basis and just adding (band aid) mods to sort things out, this was the only possible outcome - already decent AoE weapons eclipsing all other weapons in the arsenal.

    The writing was on the wall.

    • Like 2
  11. We don't need more power creep in an already power crept game.


    At least warframes still have some sense of variety when it comes to modding, since its a tug of war between maximizing certain stats, sinking others and making space for defensive mods on top. I'd prefer this to be expanded on, rather than reducing this variety for the sake of comfort.

    • Like 2
  12. 2 hours ago, Vahenir said:

    Didn't they just say "until well after tennocon"? That it would be after the new war is not something ive heard before at all.

    I stand corrected. Went back and dug up the video just to be sure.

    that said, I still don't think they'll commit resources to her any time soon. A DOA frame like her needs serious reworks, not minor buffs and tweaks.

  13. 6 hours ago, Clowee said:

    looks like they fixed it all with today's update:

    -Fixed the Yareli Noggle missing her skirt.

    Pack up your stuff everybody! We're done here.

    To play devil's advocate, Reb did mention in a livestream that aside the buffs she got post release, if they are going to look into any further buffs/tweaks/changes, it'll be after The New War launches. If Yareli is to get any further tweaks, it won't happen any time soon.

  14. 1 hour ago, NoLife said:

    Making them replayable? For one day? That's what this does. There is still no incentive to return.

    This.

    I can't speak for everyone, but for me, this does few things:
    1) I'll go back to farm them if they drop weapons. Mastery fodder is mastery fodder (as I don't expect good weapons to find their way on Star Chart bosses)
    2) If its Orbiter decorations, I can safely ignore it. I've never used a single orbiter decoration and I likely never will.
    2.a) Depending on how many of said decorations are added or what loot slots they'll occupy, they have the potential to become active hindrance and detriment to drops as now they get in the way of relevant drops and further dilute the loot tables.

    If you want to incentivize people to go back to the Star Chart bosses, you need evergreen gameplay-relevant rewards on them.

    • Like 1
  15. 1 hour ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

    I was recently speaking to someone about the Grendel missions, and their impression of it intrigued me.

    Nullifying the effects of our equipped mods and pitting us against level 40 - 45s sounds tricky, and I was wondering about the take on it that others may have after they’ve completed the missions (I’m going to jump into them in due time because Grendel looks awesome 👍 )

    The missions are mind numbingly boring, the biggest challenge is not falling asleep. They are the equivalent of "Warframe, but with all the fun sucked out of it." I did them twice, solo for myself, then duo to help a friend. Solution to the "challenge": Hildryn, subsume Elemental Ward and change the element to electricity + use the Blazing Pillage augment. There, you've solved the run, the enemies just keel over. It only gets easier if you run it in a group. Add a Panzer Vulp on top for immortal pet + give yourself access to viral procs.

    (In case it is not clear, other warframe augments and unique companion precepts work in these missions)

    • Like 7
  16. 3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

    I feel like this sets an unhealthy mindset of moving everything to a minority of the game because that's all people generally play instead of spreading out rewards. I don't think it's a big deal to have Ivara on Spy, Harrow in Defection, Nidus in Salvage, etc.

    I don't disagree with the notion on the whole, but there is an issue with how rewarding Defection and Salvage as modes are, as in, they are not, at all. Outside of the rotation that drops the warframe blueprtints, there is nothing rewarding about about the rest of the lootables, which is what makes them such problematic mission types. Both are unrewarding, time gated and end up wasting your time for nothing.

    If those issues were to be corrected, the perspective on those nodes would drastically change.

    I still don't have a second harrow for the Helminth, it is the only frame I've not subsumed, simply because I can not commit to long farm sessions without my brain going numb, not with each run lasting roughly 16 to 20min without the ability to drastically reduce the duration. I can sit 2+ hours in SP survival, I can not for the life of me do more than 2 or 3 defection runs, back to back, before my brain attempts to crawl out through my ear and run for the hills.

    • Like 3
  17. 10 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

    Ah, I was wondering (didn't know if it was something special at 180 normal, or if you were simulating Steel Path).

    🤔 Isn't there just a handful of Arcanes and cosmetics in SP? How does Yareli fare across the rest of the game?

    Poorly, IMO. I leveled her in SO and at no point were her abilities of any consequence, at least while within ~150 Power Strength. As for Steel Path, it is what I play on unless the content is not available on SP. With DE embracing SP more and more, especially with the recent changes and additions, I see no point in investing in a frame that is so grossly under performing.

     

    6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

    Glanced through the Wiki (didn't look too deep because I want to figure things out when I get her). She seems to be terrible at dealing with armour, since it looks like 2 out of her 4 abilities are cold-based

    Yes, they are, which is what makes them perform so poorly, on top of the poor scaling. Being able to deal with armor is the determining factor of how well a frame or a weapon is going to perform on the Steel Path, as everything else dies just as easily as on the Star Chart (For example, there is little practical difference between fighting Star Chart and Steel Path infested)

  18. 6 minutes ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

    What's at level 180?

    What do you mean? The reason why I use a lv180 of that specific enemy? I find it the simplest way to simulate Steel Path enemies in the Simulacrum.

    TITk21V.png

    • Like 1
  19. 2 hours ago, (NSW)Greybones said:

    I don’t have her yet, but this seems… odd

     

    10 minutes ago, Dar.Karon said:

    And that's exactly the reason everyone says she's bad. She has little to no scaling damage, her abilities are bizarrely mod-resistant, she has no synergy between any of her abilities, and she doesn't even have the tankiness to survive very well, despite Merulina's 75% DR.

     

    I humored myself and slapped 322% Power Strength on her (Blind Range, Transient Fortitude, Umbral Intensify, Augur Secrets) and tested the damage vs lvl180 Kosma Gokstad Officers in the Simulacrum. Her 1 literally does tickles worth of damage, each damage instance doing between 18 and 48 damage, resulting in less then a pixel worth of damage on the enemy HP bar. Her 4 is not much better, when it comes to the big picture - it deals somewhere between 600 and 800 damage, but it is still an inconsequential pixel of the enemy HP bar at best. Her 3 fairs a bit "better", it can actually kill a target - if you hug them for ~18-20 seconds for the slash damage and procs to do their job.

    Keep in mind, this is with the AI turned off, if any of those targets could act, she'd be dead in seconds. The 75% DR on Merulina is questionable since the damage that'd bleed through on any relevant content will likely kill Yareli before Merulina's HP is depleted.

    To put it bluntly, Yareli is useless. You can scale the damage on her abilities tenfold and it would not be enough for content where it'd matter. As she is currently, even after the tiny buffs she receiver, she is DoA.

    • Like 3
  20. 1 minute ago, Battle.Mage said:

    who was this someone ?????????????????
    warframe is intended for a wide audience. at least it is logically so ........

    How should I know? Obviously somebody at DE found the concept interesting to greenlight this trainwreck of a frame.

    • Like 3
  21. I'm shocked that the playerbase figured a way around DE's idiotic adaptation system /s. I just hope that, in case they act, they won't push Banshee down the hole of irrelevance she's been stuck in for a good portion of the past decade and only recently found a way out due to the Sister's update.

    The irony of it all, I can think of handful other frames who can kill the Sisters with similar efficiency. Sure, they won't one-tap them the same way Sonar does that, but they'll still die in less than 20 seconds.

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