pungent.snatch
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Posts posted by pungent.snatch
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I understand that and I do agree, but this is for the sake of balance. You can't have the most powerful "booster" (I use that word because that's how I see them, boosters for mods) be commonly found in basic mission types.
Edit: Also this is my 8000th post, I am now a Dragon.
I agree to a certain extent that the availability of these cores needed balancing but this is the wrong way to go about it. Before these packs were found not in basic mission types, but in T4 missions which is the highest difficulty you could get. I was against them removing packs from T4 missions but since they did it anyway, we have to settle for regular missions on the starchart. They shouldn't be so easy to get but they also shouldn't be this difficult to get either. The old rates were fine considering how much cores you need to max out mods. Now people have to rely on purchasing Legendary Cores (assuming they're not all already gone) to max out rare/primed mods.
And congratulations, lol. I'm on my 22nd post, still have a lot of work to do.
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Maybe it's because these are the rarest cores? Second to legendary cores these ones are the most powerful. Now imagine them being freely available with the drop rate from before in the missions they are put on at this moment. You'd be getting them like crazy and it'd be like getting a golden gun in every mission.
Honestly, this is just everyone talking from the viewpoint of the ones who got it like crazy beforehand. Give it about 1 or 2 weeks and you'll see why they brought down the drop tables.
Well, they did mention they wanted to reduce grind but all they've done is increase it. Whats the point of adding 10 ranks to a mod if you can't max the last two? Why not just have 8 rank mods? Then they toss in primed mods. How could we not be upset?
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Because data mining found the DE nurfs drop rates into the ground for certain items causing a ridiculous spike in their rarity. Especially for items that have just come out or become popular/good. People called DE on this behavior, DE said they would fix it. Patch later and more data mining, no change. Another path saying they will fix it, data mining is now much harder to do, items remain disproportionally rare when they first come out or harder to acquire as they become popular.
Why would they do this? Maybe because this game is nothing but grinding and RNG. DE feels they can't retain players unless they are forced to grind for long periods of time for the stuff they want.
Completely 100% agree with what you're saying. I guess I kinda understand why they encrypt this information now. What they're saying to the public and what they're actually doing are completely different. Very hypocritical of them in my opinion. Not to mention that they straight-up lied to the community multiple times and didn't bother apologizing or coming up with an excuse to explain themselves. Now that they're encrypted, people can't tell if they're still pulling the same tricks or if they've changed the drop rates now.
Also, for those questioning the accuracy of weighted drop tables, a perfect example of checking the rarity of an item to drop is to check the Warframe Ducats exchange rates here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ducats
I have no evidence to back this up but I'm assuming:
Items Worth 10 Ducats = Common
Items Worth 20 Ducats = Uncommon
Items Worth 50 Ducats = Rare
I would also add that from my own personal experience, this assumption is somewhat accurate (i.e. Loki Prime Helmets rarely drop for me and the ducat price reflects that since its set on 50).
Original T4 Survival would have had Rare 5 packs categorized as "common" considering how often they dropped.
When I mentioned:
For example:
Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:- 2000 Credit Cache Reward- 2500 Credit Cache Reward- Uncommon Fusion Core- Rare Fusion Core- Steady Hands- Stabilizer- Power Throw- Rare 5 PackThere are 8 items there. 100%divided by 8 = 12.5. That means you have a 12.5% chance of getting each item on there.Let's be honest, it isn't hard to see which rewards are rare and which ones aren't. I don't have any concrete evidence to back up my claims here but lets assume I'm correct for the following hypothetical cases. Credit caches, common. Uncommon fusion core, let's say that's uncommon. The rest are considered rare. That still shows that the chances of getting rare pack of fusion cores is very low, which is the whole point of this topic. -
So you've never heard of a weighted drop table? I mean really ... this game uses weighted drop tables, and you've never noticed before? Some items within the same table have different chances to drop. You can easily see this with many items in game, such as Hikou Prime Pouches in T1C, or the Systems part for many warframes dropped from bosses. Because there are so many examples of drop table weighting in the game, you can't just assume everything in a drop table has the same chance. You have to actually go out and do runs, record your results over many trials, and come back with statistics.
I'm using those statistics as a general rule of thumb.
Rarity / Chance
Common / 75.5%
Uncommon / 22.0%
Rare / 2.0%
Legendary / 0.5%
What I'm suggesting is the cores be put into the "common" category. I know what a weighted drop table is so don't dismiss what I'm saying if you haven't read all my posts.
EDIT: Not to mention that brings up another issue. Why do they encrypt these weighted drop tables when there really isn't a need to? Why not release this information to the public? It's not as if it poses a huge security risk. There's really no way to exploit that type of information.
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Better would be to add high chance at rotation C to reward people who go higher levels.
This is also a very good idea but since Rotation C only appears at minute 20, 40, and 60, they should make it 15 cores (10 seems too little) instead.
So you get to minute 20, you get 15 cores, you get to minute 40, you get 30 cores, etc. If it was 10, it would be kind of a small reward but that's debatable I guess.
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You're also forgetting something. While your idea is sound
DE has weighed droptables, while ideally it would be 25%, cores might in reality be 15%.
Yes, you're correct, which is why I advise they raise the drop chances so that cores are weighed more/much more common.
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I'm certain Sheldon is doing as some sort of sick experiment.
I honestly have no idea what they're doing. They want to reduce the grind but then they increase it. Simple solution though.
Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:[REMOVE] -2000 Credit Cache Reward[REMOVE] -2500 Credit Cache Reward[REMOVE] -Uncommon Fusion Core[REMOVE] -One Rare Fusion Core- Steady Hands- Stabilizer- Power Throw- Rare 5 PackResult: Rare 5 pack now has a 25% chance of dropping.Removed credit rewards, we can just increase the amount of credits you earn from a mission.Rest of the cores: It should be level 0-10 survival missions [COMMON CORES ONLY], 10-20 [uNCOMMON CORES ONLY], and 20+ [RARE CORES ONLY].This isn't hard. DE is just messing with us. -
Guys, so I can go to Ceres, do a survival or Intercept and leave at the 5 min mark and have a 12% chance at getting gold cores? This is great because I dont have to waste keys and can rerunning the mission. I still feel this is more grind when I look at 77% chance vs 12%.
Yes, you're exactly correct. You have a 12% chance of getting a pack of gold cores. The difference is back when people used to run T4 survival, there was a 77% chance for the 5 minute mark, 10 minute mark, and the 15 minute mark. Then they had a lower chance at the 20 minute mark. Now we have a 12% chance on ONLY the 5 and 10 minute mark. We don't have to use keys anymore but its still very hard to get these packs of cores which is why something needs to be changed. You are also correct that this makes the grind much harder.
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How you are all calculated this?
Don't you all notice already, this (or any) game have droptable. And rare (literaly) items.
So absolutly no reason (exept experience) to tell what.
You cant just consider that all items in table have the same droprate.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Orokin_Void/Rewards#SurvivalPC
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Survival
These aren't just random statistics that we're making up. If you do the research yourself, you should be able to find all this information. Drop tables show all the information already. Using simple math, that's how you find the percentage numbers that we're using.
For example:
Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:- 2000 Credit Cache Reward- 2500 Credit Cache Reward- Uncommon Fusion Core- Rare Fusion Core- Steady Hands- Stabilizer- Power Throw- Rare 5 PackThere are 8 items there. 100% divided by 8 = 12.5. That means you have a 12.5% chance of getting each item on there. -
Well... don't get your hopes up. Just finished 5 10 minute runs on eris, ceres, pluto and uranus. This is the underwhelming result:
It's 1 pack out of 10 rewards. Back to burning void keys i guess...
Thanks for posting results. We need evidence like this if we want to change anything. This will bring more attention to the current issue with cores. I'll try to add this to my original post. Of course, all credit will go to you (I won't take any credit for these pictures). Thanks again for your help.
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***(5x) Rare 5 Pack "%" chance of dropping***:
Original Rotation A of T4 Survival: 77%
Post-nerf Rotation A of T4 Survival: 38.5%
Current Rotation A on regular starchart missions: 12.5%
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Fun fact: some people actually play Void missions for Prime parts. And at any rate, it's not just Void missions. It's ALL missions.
They are still nerfed yes but
they said missions, they didnt say just void
it might be for all missions level 20+
I don't think that included void missions, it makes no sense to take them out of voids then to put them back into voids.
They're on starchart missions too.
If they mean all types of survival and interceptions level 20+, then it's perfect! I don't need to waste my T4S/Int keys on cores anymore :D
I misread the redtext so that's a mistake on my part. The drop rates for Rare 5s are still much worse in comparison to old T4 Survival though. Instead of a 38.5% chance of getting a pack, you now have a 12.5 chance of getting a pack.
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Let's look at why this "re-inclusion of R5 cores" might actually be waaaaay worse than running t4 survival:
Drop rate of high level survival missions on star chart:
+2000 Credits Cache,1,COMMON, 14.2% (estimated)
+2500 Credits Cache,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
+Fusion Core,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
+Steady Hands,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
+Stabilizer,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
+Power Throw,1,COMMON,14.2% (estimated)
Let's add R5 core packs into that, assuming they are also categorized as "common"
100/7 rewards = 14.2% (the old rates of rotation A in high level survival)
100/8 rewards(Add the r5 core pack) = 12.5% chance. in rotation A
Why is this terrible?
The old T4 survival rates were 77% (they were the only "common" drop in rotation A). By including O cellsx3 in the "common" type, rare 5 packs were cut in half: 38.5%.
Now tell me....which is better? 38.5%? Or.....12.5%?
Thanks for the help. You're example is way more informative than what I was trying to say. Added that to my original post and gave you credit.
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Go look at the Hotfix thread again. Someone posted a screenshot of Redtext saying it's specifically within the Star Chart.
Ok, maybe mentioning the Void wasn't a good idea since it wasn't a very good example. However, don't ignore the issue at hand which is that there's still no reliable fusion core farming method.
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Mission Reward ChangesThe following Missions / Rotations have been updated to include a pack of 5 Rare Fusion Cores as a reward:- Hard Survival Missions (Enemy Level 20+), reward available on Rotation A .- Hard Interception Missions (Enemy Level 20+), reward available on Rotation B.
All this means is that they added them back in but its still just as hard to farm them. Rare 5 packs now drop on regular starchart missions. However, they only drop on Rotation A.
To DE: The issue is NOT that some level 20+ missions are using Medium Tier Rewards (although it is great that you have fixed this problem). The community has an issue with the incredibly low drop rate chance of R5 packs (only a mere 25% for Survival Rotation A and 50% for Interception Rotation B according to DERebecca and results of datamining by staff). The community also has an issue with these packs being limited to only Rotation A (for Survival) and Rotation B (for Interception). I don't think the community has an issue with these cores being taken out of the Void ONLY IF the drop rates remained the same. The main issue is that by limiting these cores to only certain rotations and reducing the drop rate for them, you are increasing the grind. Cores were easily obtainable before the T4 survival nerf but they were still very time consuming to get (i.e. 50 minute T4 survival could get you around 30 R5s if you were lucky). You then proceed to decrease the drop rate and limit them to one rotation. When the community talks about grind, we're not talking about the grind to get T4 keys. We're talking about the grind to get cores on a consistent basis with the large amount of time spent. The most recent hotfix you rolled out has not changed anything about the issue of R5 cores. You are not looking at the correct issue.
R5 Cores Needed to Max:
[MOD] [R10] Common: 132[MOD] [R10] Uncommon: 264[MOD] [R10] Rare: 396[MOD] [R10] Legendary (Primed): 528All credit for these numbers goes to wearing_socks.Community Responses:[LisRestall] https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399468-r5-cores-are-still-nerfed-after-hotfix-1514/?p=4421886[Archistopheles] https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/400615-why-do-you-not-want-cores/?p=4421612[plznohurtme] https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/399468-r5-cores-are-still-nerfed-after-hotfix-1514/?p=4417048All credit for these responses goes to the respective users (indicated within the brackets).Rotation A (Enemy Level 20+) Drop Table:
- 2000 Credit Cache Reward- 2500 Credit Cache Reward- [1] Uncommon Fusion Core- [1] Rare Fusion Core- [MOD] Steady Hands- [MOD] Stabilizer- [MOD] Power ThrowHypothetical Math:All of them have a 14.29% chance of dropping. Add in Rare 5 fusion core packs. All of them now have a 12.5% chance of dropping. In comparison, T4 Survival used to offer a 77% chance of dropping Rare 5 fusion core packs in Rotation A since they were considered a "common" reward. They then added in 3x Orokin Cells in Rotation A as a "common" reward which halved the chances of getting a Rare 5 pack in Rotation A again (38.5% now).R5 Pack "%" chance of dropping:Original Rotation A of T4 Survival: 77%Post-nerf Rotation A of T4 Survival: 38.5%Current Rotation A on regular starchart missions: 12.5%All credit for these percentages goes to cyrus106.Evidence:The following data is from Hotfix 15.13.8.Results from five 10 minute runs of Pluto, Cerese, Neptune, and Uranus:
Results from five 10 minute runs on Ceres only.
Results from five 10 minute runs on Pluto only.
The following data is from Hotfix 15.14.0.Results from six 10 minute runs on Uranus only.
All credit for these pictures goes to Dunkingmachine.I know they're spread out on all starchart missions (Enemy Level 20+), which is great since there isn't a need to go into the void anymore, but there's still no reliable way to farm for them.I mean, they're back so that's a step in the right direction but they're still very hard to farm. From what I understand, this is what it sounds like but I could be wrong. The patch notes weren't very specific. Can we get an official response to this from a DE staff member? Thoughts?TL;DR: First, they nerf T4 survival R5 pack's drop rate by half. Then they reintroduce them on starchart missions but drop rate is even worse than the post-nerf T4 survival R5 pack's drop rate. It is now much harder to farm for cores. Then they slap us in the face by releasing primed mods which we'll never be able to max now.TL;DR v2.0: They've tripled the grind for getting R5 packs.Proposed Solution:- Remove Credit Cache rewards and increase the credits gained from a mission.- Place cores on planets according to their rarity.[-] Common (Bronze) Cores [0-10 Enemy Level][-] Uncommon (Silver) Cores [10-20 Enemy Level][-] Rare (Gold) Cores [20+ Enemy Level]- Increase drop rate chance of R5 packs and make them available on Rotation A and B or all rotations.- All Void missions only provide prime parts. This would reduce RNG.- Forma blueprints are only found in Orokin Derelict missions. This would also reduce RNG. -
I don't know why people are praising this hotfix. Changelog doesn't say much besides the fact that they added Rare 5's back in. Basically, Rare 5's packs no longer drop on Rotation B in Survival anymore and only on Rotation A. Meaning they didn't really change much. Instead of taking away all Rare 5 packs in T4 Survival, they just nerfed it so it's still there but you get less.
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Title. Prefer to buy an unranked version. PM me your price. Thanks.
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Already traded. Thanks guys.
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SOLD. Thanks.
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I disagree. You will run out of money when you do the high end things in quick succession, and in those cases, money IS supposed to run out.
We all already knew that maxing out some mods is expensive. We also know that there is little need to get the last 2 points on those 10 point mods, that can account for a large fraction of the what the previous 6-8 points cost.
Your basically buying a sports car instead of a family car to go driving on the same roads, and it cost more. I don't understand why that should change.
That would be accurate if you were talking about mods exclusively. It wouldn't be accurate if you were to apply the same example and reasoning to Foundry costs and the numerous amount of credit sinks in the game. Crafting the regular Mag warframe isn't exactly buying a sports car. It's also not something high end.
Once again, I have a different stance than the original poster. I say at least increase the credit rewards and keep the credit sinks. Right now, the amount of credits you gain isn't enough for the amount of credits you spend. Since there is an imbalance, something (I don't know what though but I'm offering a suggestion) should be done. I am, however, strongly against just doing nothing about it. Not to mention DE loves to nerf farming or anything that makes the game slightly easier.
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Make credits no longer a resource? What kind of post is that.
Seimeni and Ysura dark sectors are both easy and give credits fast.
Tower captures are easy and give credits even faster. With syndicates t4c keys are infinite now, bum a few off a friend/clanmate especially if you're new.
Oberon blueprints give you tons of credits all the time too.
No ones saying to eliminate credits as a resource. Dark Sectors are usually in conflict and when they aren't, they're taxed heavily. Being that the Perrin Sequence offerings/rewards are the worst out of all 6 syndicates, not many people have T4 Capture keys. Oberon blueprints are random drops from Eximus enemies, not guaranteed ones. They also cost the same amount as any other blueprint dropped from a boss. Common sense would say you farm for the guaranteed drop from a regular boss rather than a random drop from an Eximus enemy. Even so, the amount of credits it gives is very little.
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see, if you play casually, only from time to time, then you spend and gain Credits at a slower rate.
*shrugs* if you have less necessity to spend Credits, then your Credit income being lower from less playing - is just fine.
if you want to "gotta 'max' everything ASAP" while playing in a casual sense, then you're vastly overreaching.
So basically you're saying that's his problem and not yours or anyone elses?
Great contribution to the conversation.
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You are aware there is a non-steam version of Warframe, yes? Which, unsurprisingly won't update your steam profile if you use the standalone client?
And I assume you can probably hazard a guess to just how much people who have spent a good chunk of change on the game play it, to say nothing of those dedicated enough to volunteer to moderate this place. I do believe you're conflating cause and effect. Players who play the game a lot tend not to have credit problems....and they also tend to be the ones who spend cash.
I assume you guys are doing all the basics? Selling dupes regularly? I can get 120k from pressure point dupes alone. And those ridiculous Oberon parts BPs sell for quite a bit too. And at 750 a pop, the beacons for Vay Hek can be useful if you brave Ceres, especially since you can desecrate out extras.
Of course I know there is a non-steam version of Warframe. Except he doesn't use the non-steam version. On his profile it shows all his achievements and the 2000 hours he's spent on it. I'm not going to link you to his profile but you google it and see for yourself. Maybe you should check that next time you want to bring up the standalone client.
I believe you're confusing what I'm saying. There's no problem with spending money and supporting the community. That's great on its own. However, for new players that come in and don't want to spend money on the game, credits has become a problem. You should take into account both sides of the argument. Spending money to support a cause is fine but don't ignore those who don't have/want to spend that money.
I don't sell my duplicate mods because I dump them into fusing mods I need. I don't know how much a mod sells for but I can't imagine selling them for more than 500-1,000 credits per copy. Even so, what kind of rank 1-8 player sits on 240 copies of Pressure Point regularly? You must be kidding about the Oberon parts. The amount of credits they sell for are exactly the same as any other blueprint dropped from a boss, which is 3,500 credits. Not to mention, they aren't a guaranteed drop from Eximus enemies. It's random. Bosses, on the other hand, do provide a guaranteed blueprint drop. If the amount of credits provided was enough, I wouldn't be saying anything. 750 credits per beacon is enough to fund the cost of a forma? That's just barely over 47 beacons to craft a forma. Think about the drop rate and the difficulty level of getting these beacons. Ceres is one of the last planets and also features some of the highest difficulty enemies outside of Void and Dark Sector missions. Tell me if a beginner player has access to Ceres or if they can even survive there. Tell me if a beginner player can build an ODA key and defeat Lephantis multiple times to build Nekros. Tell me if they even have enough credits to build Nekros and when they do have enough credits, tell me how much time it took for them to collect that amount of credits as well as how they did it.
Clearly you don't understand or don't even try to understand how much harder it is to not spend platinum. Once again, a bad example of someone pretending like they understand the game when in actuality, they really don't. In addition, I noticed that you too are also a Founder. You may be okay with spending $100 for special shiny exclusive items in a game but some people aren't. Founders are great and they deserve everything they get but don't ignore people who aren't Founders. Your items were given to you because you spent money, not because you volunteered to moderate the forums or helped develop the game itself. You just came to collect your items. I don't see you developing anything. I don't either but at least I don't pretend like I do. I'm not picking a fight with Founders but you guys can be pretty insensitive.
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Wait, then why not use those ways to get your own credits so you wouldn't run into the current situation?
How about you tell us how to farm credits efficiently if they're so easy to get? Lets do some simple arithmetic/math.
- Around 3,500-5,000 for regular missions.
- Boss runs with added blueprint is 8,500 credits.
- Alerts with credit rewards only appear every 5 minutes or so and range from 5,000-20,000 credits.
- Dark Sector runs provide 0-20,000 depending on the tax on them.
- T4 credit rewards are usually around 15,000-28,000.
Now, 3,500 seems a little low for any mission. A weapon in the foundry costs 15,000 at least to make. That's 4 runs of a mission (adding in the credits you pick up from enemies) to make enough credits to build the weapon. Those runs, depending on the type of mission and skill level of the regular player, takes around an average of 5 minutes. Not bad, but remember 15,000 is the minimum. You have Forma that costs 35,000 to make. Building an actual warframe from start to finish costs 75,000. Sure, its a grind but not bad so far.
Here's where things start to pick up a bit. Credit sinks.
- Leveling mods (2 million credits for a Legendary, 1.6 million credits for a Rare, etc.)
- Progressing in syndicates (10,000 to 500,000 credits)
- Market blueprints (35,000 credits each)
- Clan trade tax (8,000-1,000,000 depending on the item or items)
- Foundry costs (15,000-50,000)
- Kubrow creation/maintenance costs (75,000-100,000)
Let's be honest. Not many people do credit rewards unless they're more than 10,000. Some people do, but not many. It's still not enough. Dark Sectors are usually heavily taxed. Rarely do you get people taxing less than 20% and when they do, you usually net around 16,000 per 5 minute run. How many people have access to T4 keys? Yes, they're available through Syndicates but you still have to grind credits to get to the 2nd rank. Not to mention, the difficulty for a new player to defeat T4 enemies is a bit high so they can't do it alone. It's still not an efficient farming method because there are different types of keys. No one backs out of a T4 Defense at Wave 5 for credits just like no one backs out of a T4 Survival for credits. So the only viable ones left are T4 Exterminate and T4 Capture. Even then, only around 26,000 credits per run. Adding in the costs of all the credit sinks, there's very little wiggle room for buying anything. And again, like I mentioned before, not many new players have access to T4 keys.
TL;DR version: Sure, there are ways to credits for advanced players but they're still not very efficient. New players are left in the dust since they can't even access/beat Dark Sectors or Void missions. There is a huge imbalance between the credits gained through rewards and the time spent to get them. You don't need to get rid of credit costs in the Foundry but at least make it easier to gain credits. Don't make it so players are forced to drop platinum on Credit Boosters to make credits faster. Not to mention it makes no sense plot-wise or logically to spend credits on something you already own. You have the blueprint, you have the materials, but you have to spend credits for no reason just to build it. To reach higher level of mastery ranks, you need to spend credits to buy and craft weapons. Don't listen to that one person who's satisfied with a maxed out Rhino at rank 3 and is content with using that one and only warframe, maxed out low level tier weapons, and using the same setup for the rest of their Tenno lives. No wonder they find themselves with plenty of credits.
TL;DR version 2.0: Credit sinks are okay but you should balance it out. Increase credits gained from all missions and keep all your credit sinks. Either remove some credit sinks (i.e. Foundry costs) or increase credit rewards because right now it's looking like 70% credit sinks - 30% credit rewards. Please balance.
NOTE: Finally, those who have spend heavy amounts of cash on platinum won't understand the struggle of a regular player.
Strange "fps" Glitch Actually Shows Potential
in Art, Animation, & UI
Posted
I didn't read through all the posts so somebody might have already mentioned this but to reproduce this bug, hack a terminal while you're zoomed in with your weapon. This should probably be put in Bug reports section but it's such a mess in there it would probably be buried anyway. Also, syndicate death squads spawning in a mobile defense mission (such as Sedna, Kappa) before you put in the first terminal can glitch the entire mission. You won't be able to retrieve the datamass. Another thing, opening a person's profile while your Foundry is open can cause a glitch where you're stuck in that persons profile the entire time, unable to close it. Off-topic but kinda on-topic. That is all.