-Onyx-Phalian
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Posts posted by -Onyx-Phalian
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4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:
AGAIN
jesus its like you didn't even read it
So basically you're asking Smite to be worthless? Smite's "scaling" us down right laughable as you either have to use Power Strength to make your other abilities decent or negative Power Strength so your Smite orbs can actually pack a punch. There are already other non-damage focused frames who can wipe rooms in 10 casts of their 1 (such as Nidus, Octavia only needs to cast her 1 once and let the enemy kill themselves). Also Radiation damage is resisted by flesh so it would take more than just 10.
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16 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:
As it stands, if Oberon did the full 35% to each target and his 4 was capable of stripping everything of all armor, he'd be capable of 3 shotting full rooms of unarmored targets regardless of level. Even if it were reduced to 10% it'd be too strong. He shouldn't be able to knockdown, apply radiation and puncture to, and clear a full room of level 9999 unarmored enemies in 10 presses of the 1 key. The scaling damage allows the ability to stay relevant. I guess the base damage can be raised, but I am against having 100% armor stripping and that great of damage potential. The fact it does as much raw damage as is it for the utility it provides is already what makes smite fantastic.
You do know Armor exists right? I mean it would wipe out Butchers if you hit a Heavy Gunner but other than that, it wouldn't do much. I am not saying it has to stay at 35%, just that this method would allow it to actually deal more damage with Power Strength. Scaling armor would help this from going off the rails but internal Testing by DE would be able to dictate a more balanced percentage as 35% per orb would be too strong (perhaps 10% per orb maybe?).
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1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:
It's a trade off. Oberon would be the god of endless damage if smite did more scaling damage with power strength.
They were very careful in the way they set the numbers on his kit. On one hand, if they bump his armor strip to 40% than 100% stripping via power strength is a legitimate option and at that point he is a walking CPx4 with a spammable damage scaling 1. I actually don't mind Mogamu's idea to bump the armor reduction to 40%, but the smite changes that he wants in conjunction with complete armor stripping that he wants would make him broken.
Vs unarmored targets is where it shines. Hit the eximus unit in the middle of the infested/corpus packs. In his current kit, it makes you choose between armor stripping or raw damage from his Smite, and I think that is a very balanced approach.
That said! That is why I've been pushing for that projectiles = energy idea, so there was some upside to raise strength for the ability.
While I do love the idea of Smite being able to help with his energy problems, I would just like have Power Strength be beneficial. Think of this, what if each orb did a certain percent of the original target's max health regardless of the number of orbs? That would actually encourage Power Strength instead of Smite basically doing the same damage regardless of your Power Strength.
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1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:
AGGP is moreso on the casual side so no surprise there.
Mogamu.... just lol. I can't anyone seriously that thinks Rage or some sort of Rage mechanic is the solution to Oberon's problems. Smite does scale well, he just has zero understanding of how it works and wants Oberon to be a press 1 to win god.
Actually the Scaling on Smite is kind of weak because Power Strength increases the orb count but that means each do less damage (wrap your head around that one) while showing how much damage it does to enemies who have decent armor (seriously, hit a Heavy Gunner and the orbs do nothing but tickle Grineer Lancers with so little damage you can not even see it). DE did say they would add Scaling but in all reality it just adds up to about the same damage as it did prior to the rework.
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10 hours ago, Iccotak said:
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10 hours ago, Iccotak said:
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10 hours ago, Iccotak said:
Devstream 91, they said they would see how we did this weekend and our overall response to Oberon and take another look. They are actively working on him but they want more data from the playerbase.
Which is why multiple times I have mentioned many common trends between most recommendations for Oberon, even referencing large YouTubers who DE respect. In fact the 3 large YouTubers who have raised their hands each point out 3 large flaws with Oberon's current position.
Tactical Potato: Countless energy problems. Your abilities require Oberon to sew different abilities together to get any real utility out of them and with a moderate Energy pool, this can be very difficult without a way to gain energy built into his kit
Mogamu: While he did say that his energy problem can be solved with Iron Reckoning + Rage, he still believes Smite's scaling is so bad it's non-existent and Reckoning needs a bit more such as a higher base armor shred (Comparing Oberon's 30% from Hallowed Ground + Reckoning to Frost's 40% from only Avalanche) and the possibility of instead of a 50% chance of enemies dropping Health Orbs when killed by Reckoning, marking enemies so those who die in X seconds after being hit by it have a 50% or even 100% to drop a Health Orb (Not only adding utility but also giving options to his build as Health Conversion would be much more viable)
AGayGuyPlays: Rob has the least number of issues with Oberon's rework but he was quite vocal about Hallowed Ground's current visuals being very underwhelming at best. Mentioning that unless you pick a VERY bright color, it is nearly impossible to see. His idea to solve this was to add grass from the upcoming Earth update and plants from the Silver Grove which would not only make it MUCH easier to see but also much more thematic with Oberon's connection to nature and his slight connection with the Silver Grove quest.
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I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has nearly caught up to I am actually pretty happy with the number if ideas and imagination of everyone who has put their 2 cents into this thread. It has yet to be a week and already this thread alone has at least half as many pages as Limbo's Rework (though with Cataclysm bomb, that is to be expected), more than Octavia's official thread, and catching up quickly to Volt's official rework thread. Keep it up everyone. DE is sure to hear us now!
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2 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:
My biggest problem is Scott, or whoever from DE will trott out 'oh just slap corrupted mods, primed mods, and go with this ver specific setup and don't dare stray into higher end content without playing as defensivly as an eighty year old grandma and he's gonna be just FINE.'
Yeah, even on the DevStream he seemed to nearly roll his eyes at the mention of Oberon's rework not being accepted by the community.
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9 minutes ago, Ardhanarishvara said:
We have a million ways to deal with energy problems. Guardian Derision + Rage, or just Rage in general. Sahasa Kubrow. Arcane Energize. Syndicate weapons/mods. Energy restore pizzas.
Energy regain is not an issue. It's his energy POOL that is holding him back, now, as it prevents him from utilizing his full kit as well as he could for very long. Buffing it up to 200 minimum, possibly 225, would fix that very well.
But still, even then, there's a handful of quality of life changes that could certainly help Oberon quite a bit. Like not having teammates have to stand on hallowed ground and THEN cast Renewal to offer Iron Renewal, for example.
Let's admit, things like increasing base Energy is probably going to come with his upcoming Prime. All we can do right now is try to help him mechanically.
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1 minute ago, pavlo555 said:
You have to cast - Hallowed ground (50 en), Reckoning(100en), 3-4 smites(75-100 en), resulting in a whoppy 225-250 to remove a really small ground of enemies?
Also, forced synergies are pretty S#&$ - Saryn may have worked, but cmon - she uses like 2 of her abilities - molt and spores, because rest of forced synergies are eh...
What makes Saryn work so well is the fact that her abilities all work well on their own but when combined can be devastating, a twsted mixture of Viral, Corrosive, and Toxin procs. The ability to spread Corrosive and Viral across such a large area with a decent amount of damage is what makes her work so well. If anything lives through that, it probably won't be for much longer.
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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)AFLIBERATOR said:
Nice to see someone that has done their research, From what I can see from all these videos is that the issues Mogamu mentions are of more importance than TP & GGP. What TP says about the energy pool does merit some credit if Oberon was a caster frame, since he is a versatility frame he should only use his abilities at the right time and place. As for GGP visual is not that important since the buffs remain active for a short duration and I can only see myself use it for emergency buff and defense missions for extra damage. The rework and hotfixes so far are going in the right direction.
The only problem is that we can't let up yet. If we want Oberon to truly shine along with the other warframes who have been released recently and received great reworks (aka, those who aren't Ash, lord knows he needs to be put right back on that list) because as of right now, he is slightly better than before but no where close to his competition.
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1 minute ago, (Xbox One)AFLIBERATOR said:
Just want to spread this link to Mogamu's breakdown video for Oberon'a rework. Very well detailed explanation and presentation to back it up, recommend watch.
I have mentioned this before that both he and Tactical Potato have both put their hats in the ring about the problem's of Oberon's rework.
tl;dr for both videos
Tactical Potato's video is about how Oberon's mandatory ability spam compared to his lack of energy gain + moderate energy pool causes a large problem wuickly
Mogamu's video is more of the scaling problems of Smite and Reckoning's clunkyness of trying to juggle too many things at once and failing at each because it doesn't do enough of one thing.
AGayGuyPlays has even mentioned about the visuals (or more the lack there of) for Hallowed Ground and has mentioned his interest in Earth remastered style grass and Silver Grove style plants to make it more visually noticeable and make it more obvious of his nature background.
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1 minute ago, MarrikBroom said:
Thought. What if Reckoning was his energy regain mechanic? As in every enemy picked up by reckoning gives Oberon ten energy if they already suffer radiation.
I would like Reckoning to receive the buffs suggested by Mogamu (increase to Armor Shred, marking targets so when they die in X seconds they have a 100% chance to drop Health Orbs instead of a 50% when killed by Reckoning) and move the energy regain to a suggestion above where Smite rewards Oberon with energy for each orb which hits an already Radiated enemy. This would allow synergy with Reckoning and Hallowed Ground as both give out Radiation like candy
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Just now, Music4Therapy said:
Very true. I don't think that they realize that all of his issues are caused by him being heavily energy gated. Solve the energy issue, and everything else falls in line.
Actually that was the main topic of Tactical Potato's point.
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3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:
Both of them are sources I wouldn't necessarily trust. There is a great video above from Meme Sage that shows his view, I suggest you check that out and let me know what you think. I watched all 3 vids, btw.
Well it's just that Tactical Potato and Mogamu are well known Warframe YouTubers who even have a large amount of respect from DE themselves. So with even big names in the Warframe community raising their voice about it, it would increase out chances of being heard by DE.
Though I would admit that both bring up different problems with Oberon. TP bringing up Oberon's terrible energy consumption with little way to get any energy back while Mogamu brings up more mechanical problems about Smite's scaling and Reckoning's doing a lot of little things which amount to lots of nothing.
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I just watched Mogamu's most recent video. It seems that we have more fuel for the fire to hopefully get DE's attention. Both Mogamu and Tactical Potato bringing up good points about Oberon's glaring weaknesses.
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18 minutes ago, Jochcio said:
Oberon, with all of his synergies, is a really energy hungry warframe. Most of the warframes that have to use multiple powers to be effective have some way of replenishing energy (Nidus, Saryn, Octavia and Limbo Limbo all have it in one way or another). I think there are at least two ways Oberon could improve on that:
1. Make enemies affected by reckoning have at least 25% chance of dropping health orb on hit (instead of 50% on kill). This way we could use build that would include equilibrium and health conversion, giving Oberon a reliable way of getting energy.
2. Each time an Orb spawned by smite hits an enemy that's under radiation effect Oberon gets 5 energy. The important thing here is that we take doesn't matter if the orbs will hit 6 different targets or if they will all hit one enemy, the energy gain will be the same!
There seems to be a few consistancies on what Oberon mains want changed to potentially salvage this rework
1) Hallowed Ground given more detail, I have yet to meet an Oberon player who wouldn't like mystic grass and plants from the Silver Grove to not only show his more natural side, but also make Hallowed Ground easier to see (Credit to the Warframe YouTuber Rob from AGayGuyPlays for this idea)
2) His utter lack of energy management. Moderate energy pool with high energy prices for the true effectiveness and no way to get energy back without energy pizzas or preying to RNG for energy orbs. There are too many different ideas to list as to how he could gain energy.
3) A recent development has been a way for Oberon to drop Health Orbs easier connected to the ability Reckoning, being one of the only 2 Warframes which can do this semi-consistently. This would also help his suitability with his moderate armor of 150 through the mod "Health Conversion" as well as mod set diversity.
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At least a couple of the large Warframe content creators are on our side.
Tactical Potato mentioned the range intensities (why does Reckoning have nearly twice the range of Hallowed Ground?) and energy problems
QuietShy is giving a subtle hint that we're not exactly happy about the changes.
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In addition to the above idea for Reckoning, what about allowing Range mods to affect the angle AND radius of Hallowed Ground? It would allow more ground covered so it can match up with Reckoning.
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1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:
Give my other thread support on it, trying to make it gain a lot of traction
You may just want to put it in here. This thread already has the traction and already has enough views and pages to grab DE's attention.
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9 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:
The thing we all agree on is that Reckoning should be more consistent in producing health orbs.
EDIT: Making Reckoning cause enemies to drop health orbs that die within X seconds of being hit by it instead of it requiring the kill, it would make the ability more consistent and would open up build paths for Oberon. It would be a small change that would help in a big way.
I would admit, I am a fan of consistency. It would allow Duration to be more noticeable as that can affect your window of opportunity. It would also allow "Health Conversion" to be much more viable as many have already moved to an Efficiency+Rage Oberon for infinite Iron Renewal armor.
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I would say that while Oberon has a bit more utility, the energy required to gain that utility cut away any progress as the 'Additional Utility" is through his synergy (though it's more like dependence and not synergy). He has only a moderate to low energy pool while having no innate way to regain energy while many previous warframes who have synergy DO (examples: Saryn, Nidus, Limbo, and Octavia).
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3 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:
I run a Range/Duration build in an attempt at scaling down how much energy Renewal eats, address Hallowed Ground and Reckoning's reach, and because I don't have any corrupted mods other than Blind Rage, which I don't want to try because of how energy hungry even a base effeciancy oberon has.
So I'm at 100 effeciancy and Power. 178% duration and 160% range
For me Oberon just needs a few small tweaks with what he has and it'll be great. AS is it's 'useable but energy devouring.'
Energy: Increase to 150 minamum. I'd be happier with 200, but that needs testing. Point is I shouldn't with primed flow have BARELY enough energy at start of mission to cast his 2, 4, 3, and rush to hope to god i can find energy or get punched in the face before his 3 runs out. The whole point of Primed mods I've alwys bee ntold
First off this synergy business. There is Synergy and then there's codependancy. Right now renewal and reckoning are dependant on hallowed ground, and that is not a good thing to be.
Synergy would be more 'these abilities are OK on their own, and are GREAT if other abilities get used.
Smite: Do. Not. Split. Scaling. Between. Secondary. Orbs. This outright punishes people who build for strength by diluting the damage out. To Complete the 'things do better on Hallowed Ground' theme of the rework, have any enemy hit by Smite take 2x damage.
Hallowed Ground: Lengthen it to 18 or 20 meters base. Anything that DIES on hallowed ground gives Oberon 5 energy (power strength does nothing for this) regardless on wher he is. Anyone standing on hallowed ground get a base 5 (adjusted by power strength) per enemy killed. Additionally Hallowed Ground affects an area up to two meters above it, so enemy can't just step up and be safe or 'oh crap I bulletjumped just over where Hallowed Ground is.' The big thing though? Damage reduction. Base of 30% damage reduction for standing on hallowed ground.
Hallowed Eruption Augment: Refund Half energy cast on Detonation. Cause Double the effects other abilities have when cast on it (so iron renewal would be 400 armor base, Proposed Smite,and reckoning would get a 4x damage Boost. The 'nuke' effect would be less for the 'nuke' itself and more for causing a gurenteed radiation proc that reckoning can use.
Renewal: Give half strength iron renewal if anyone recieving renewal isn't on hallowed ground (so base 100 armor.) Nothing to write home about on its own but people would get SOMETHING. Also for the love of FSM tone down how much renewal costs per ally. Have it cost 1 energy per ally base (you can do fractional units of energy. I know you can, that's how energy siphon works.) This puts Oberon consuming a third less to upkeep a group. However i also want Oberon to be able to heal NPCs (defense targets, rescue hostages, clemmings, etc.) So that balances to an extent.
Reckoning: Give it more armor stripping by default since spamming oberon's highest cost ability is... not helping his effeciancy issues. I don't really see upping his damage as nessicary since he is a support frame. The damage at low level fissure mission farming is nice, but the big thing here is the crowd control from radiation/blind. So give Reckoning its pre-rework range, double the base blind radius, and if at all possible enemies that hae been slammed by reckoning should have a fifty fifty chance to drop health orbs if nothing else will drop. If that is not possible, then just scrap the mechanic altogether since as is it's too undependable due to Reckoning not being a good damage dealer and the effect is somethin dependant on damage done right now, which is bad.
Passive; current passive is 'fine.' However it'd be better if Oberon had a passive Rage and an innate guardian derision effect regardless of what melee he's using. That would allw him to taunt enemies to go away from the really squishy important things, focus on him, which fuels his powers which causes him to go full on area control and then punching everything to death with bullets.
This is very well thought out and I have to agree. Granted the bonus armor I would prefer be on Hallowed Ground rather than Renewal like it was before the rework but that detail aside, I agree 110%.
Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond
in Warframes
Posted
I am just saying that increasing Power Strength on a scaling ability should hit a bit more significantly. If you noticed I NEVER mentioned hard numbers as I would admit that without any way to extensively test, there is no way I can find exact percentages so that it isn't too strong. I am just asking for Smite to be relevant since knock downs are only for about 1 second, Radiation is a coin flip whether or not they would attack a friendly or continue to try and kill you, and the Puncture proc really falls off late game.