Culaio

Calling it a training ground doesnt exactly contradict the whole stuff about rewrting of events, we need to remember that Teshin views real battle with our lives on the line as training, as we see with steel path, he views us doing different missions against different factions on star map as way to improve ourselves. There whole line about armies yet to exist actually perfectly fits within rewriting of events. I could actually accept your explanation that we arent actually rewriting stuff and its more like we are simulating battles that happen on the outside, BUT that is if nothing else in game mentioned it but we have multiple other places talking about rewriting of events, other characters in duviri mention undercroft as place where you can rewrite events, prevent tragedies and there is the whole stuff with " Palimpsest of Spacetime" saying that rewriting of events is possible, they literally put it in newest update, there is no way that DE so much talk about rewriting of events has no reason behind it. Rewriting of events is mentioned too frequently for it to have no meaning, generally when DE puts in game so much hints about something it means that they are building up toward something we will see in the future, DE was droping hints on impact of emotions in void before we got duviri update and DE was droping hints on nature of how warframes were operated before we got second dream(like the message we could get during loading that mentioned "somatic control" and also mentiones synapses and stuff, it was clear hint at the fact that warframes were operated from the outside). Yes I understand that according to how eternalism is supposed to work, rewriting of events is impossible, that that is how that works in real life(well just a theory though), BUT there are two possibilities here, first is that Eternalism in warframe works different from how its supposed to work in real life, there is one hint that could be implying that, Eluria Entrati recording we hear in classroom mentions something that implies connection between void and eternalism and whats more kinda implies that eternalism theory with inclusion of void is more correct than without it: " The Void offers humanity the truer telling of Eternalism." That to me could imply that eternalism in warframe is a bit different from real life philosophical theory of Eternalism. Well that was one possibility I mentioned, other one is that the claim of "rewriting of events" is kind of a simplification of what is happening, when Eluria talks about how eternalism works she uses example of making a choice and how when one makes a choice they are assigned to one version of reality but the version of reality where other choice was made is also real and is theoretically accessible, well what if the "rewriting of events" was actually us re-assigning ourselves to different version of reality ? I mean if I am not mistaken that would not contradict eternalism since that version of reality already existed but from out perespective it would be rewriting of events that happen in our version of reality(version of reality we were assigned to by all the choices that happen until now), there wouldnt be actual rewriting of events it would just feel like there was for us.

Thats incorrect and we have evidence that proves it, first evidence is the fact that: First evidence is the fact that Teshin out right says that we are rewriting events that happen in normal reality: Teshin:"Many defensive battles within the Origin System were lost. Through the paradox, you now have the chance to undo those defeats." Teshin:"History dictates that this Tenno asset was destroyed in a grave setback to the cause. Let us rewrite that event." Teshin:"This Tenno asset is destined to be destroyed by hostile forces. Intervene, and change its fate." This confirms that we are rewriting event that happen in normal reality not in duviri. Second evidence which I would say is event stronger, and which confirms that rewriting of events is related to eternalism is related to new lore from this update that I quoted earlier: "What is the core thesis of 'The Palimpsest of Spacetime'? A: Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist" "The Palimpsest of Spacetime" is what Albrecht Entrati co-writen with his daughter Euleria Entrati(later know as mother/Gomaitru), its bringed up during class lesson during new war when talking about eternalism, so yeah rewriting of events is in warframe related to eternalism, of course like you said its a thesis, but based on stuff that is said by Teshin that is something that is actually possible to do from the undercroft. --- on the topic of the red stuff from kuva defence mission, Lotus seemed very confident that it wasnt how kuva is normally created, If she didnt know how kuva is created it would make more sense to ask, "is that how kuva is created ?" yet its not what she ask, instead she is confused why queens think its possible to create kuva from that slude. Kuva is not orokin blood, we actually got some new info about it this update, kuva is related to void: "What is 'Kuva'? A: Fluid with Void-derived capacity to conduct consciousness" Voruna Leverian provides even more info about kuva and its connection to void, including mention of how process of continuity is done which includes our reality being bridged to void and requiems being used as part of this process, its whole ritual.

"0_The_F00l" is actually kinda right here, in warframe eternalism does seem to work that way, we are told so multiple times in game, It IS possible to rewrite events from inside of undercroft, Teshin says so when we are in the undercroft, also the charcters that give us missions in duviri also say so and whats more the newest lore we got with current update also confirms it: "What is the core thesis of 'The Palimpsest of Spacetime'? A: Events can be rewritten; traces of the original persist" So yeah rewriting of events in warframe is possible, I am not sure if it only can be done using undercroft, I am not sure why would that be only possible there, there is nothing special about it other than being close to void, so I can only assume that void itself is what enables rewriting of events. If only teshin mentioned rewriting of events that I could ignore it, it wouldnt be first time we got interesting info during mission that has some very interesting implications but in the end had zero impact on game, for example kuva defence mission in kuva fortress has some interesting interesting info mentioned by Lotus, dialogue mention some sludge which I believe is the red stuff in the machinery, orginally I thought it was kuva but based on Lotus dialogue it seems it isnt, in the dialogue Lotus wonders what that sludge is and also wonders why queens think they can create kuva out of it, which implies that Lotus knows how normally kuva is created and it is NOT normally created out of that sludge, which makes you wonder what that slude is exactly. Exact quote from kuva defence mission: Lotus: "What's in this sludge and why do the Queens think they can make Kuva from it?" Sadly even though that dialogue about sludge is interesting it has ZERO impact on rest of game, its never mentioned again, so if Teshin dialogue was only place that mentions rewriting of events I could ignore it but it isnt, other characters mention it to and DE went out of the way to mention it again lore we collect, all of this points that its some kind of build up to something we will experiance in the future of warframe, it kinda feels like build ups we had to finding out how warframes were operated(DE given us hints quiet a while before second dream was released), or how void functions, with the hints about emotions interacting with void so yeah I am fairly confident that we will most likely see rewriting of events in the game.

Well I can see three possibilities: -DE retconned how things work, we need to remember how long time ago Plains of Eidolon was released, it was over 5 years ago, in few months it will be six, interestingly its around same amount of time for which Rebecca said they have planned warframe future, its very possible that we are beyond point for which they have planned things for warframe back than. -Second possibility is that DE themselves dont fully understand Eternalism and multiverse theory and kinda mixed things up. -Third possibility is that DE is using terms related to multiverse when talking about eternalism because multiverse is much easier to understand, its becoming commonly used term in fiction, compared to that eternalism is much harder to imagine, you wont really see mention of it in any of more casual fiction. Also while multiverse theory and eternalism are fundamentally very different, they do have some similar concepts, like the fact that all possibilties exist at the same time and if you have means to do so it is possible to experiance different possibilities.

I am not person with who you are talking but here is found post on reddit(posted by "trthorson") that explained it well how eternalism works: "There is not a present or future in the sense we conceptualize it. "Timeline" is a misnomer. Do you remember the graphic showing a radiant object? That was trying to give you a visualization of how it works. But on a 2d plane that makes it even harder to explain. You can theoretically access all possibilities from any current existence "across time". You can go "forward and backward" through any of the realities. Think of it less like a 2d plane with infinite threads extending from each possibility and more as an infinite 3d volume of existence whereby all realities are occurring past present and future. And they don't "occur" because time isn't linear - you don't move across it. It just "is". This should be easier understand if you understand or take some time to read on the concept of "space-time" being a melding of both space in 3 dimensions and time, all into one "value" (sort of). Not quite the same concept, but might help conceptualize the framework the game is trying to create. You could also conceptualize the void as, seemingly, an expanse that infinitely surrounds the infinite-volume-"reality" of all possibilities occurring simultaneously. Another way to help conceptualize might be to think of how the three spacial dimensions we know fit together. How many 2d squares can fit into a 3d cube? Well, infinite. Because there is no 3rd dimension of a square to fill the cube, you can endlessly stack them. Likewise, infinite 1d lines can fit into a square. Likewise, infinite times can occur at the same "time" as we conceptualize it because we don't have that "4d view" of time. To a 2d man, a cube can become 2d and he can see it as it moves in and out of his plane of existence. But he could only conceptualize a square - bending and morphing as it transcends the 2d plane. Similarly, time and therein reality can bend and twist and be manipulated in WF universe via void shenanigans. The great indifference - TMITW - wally."

Well we arent operator playing in the mind of drifter we are playing as drifter we are experiancing his perespective of how he got free from the spiral(loop) he was stuck in. On your other questions I will speculate a bit, it seems to me that Drifter no longer views Duviri as his prison, it is kind of his home. Alternatively reason why Drifter may still be doing stuff in Duviri is because his actions in Duviri have impact on normal reality, he may be working with Teshin to help outside world, Teshin in the undercroft out right says that they are rewriting events that happen in history, preventing some tenno operators from dying and preventing some armies from coming to existance. I dont believe that canonically drifter already left Duviri just after finishing Duvuri quest because I believe that Lotus/Natah main body may still be somewhere in Duviri or void, I mean the flower like part that stays on the chair during new war quest, Drifter is still yet to find Lotus/Natah. DE may be planing to make things that are happening in normal reality and inside of void happen in parallel, from the lore info about the islands it seems that events of chain of harrow quest had impact on duviri world, chains raining from the sky, if thats what really happen than operator actions had impact on Duviri, some also speculate that the island lore info about blood(kuva most likely) coming from ground may be related to stuff that happen with queens in war within quest, we may be looking at situation were operator actions in normal reality affect events in duviri and driter actions in duviri may have impact on the normal reality. Duviri has some importance still, Man in the wall doesnt "attack" it without purpose, him getting control over duviri could possibly mean him being able to finally leave void but thats just a theory, he may have very different purpose. Well that was said in the lore, it may of course be red herring but for now I will believe that until we have evidence proving otherwise. You are kinda underestimating how amazing creation of Duviri was, current duviri is just a shadow of its former self, orginally it was much MUCH larger, it was enormous, its said that that Duviri kingdom islands went from horizon to horizon, there was so many islands that flying over them it was almost impossible to count all the islands. Another interesting thing is that Duviri seems to have its own laws of physics, I mean how islands float, how there is gravity when there isnt enough mass to create it, in some places water seems to be created out of nothing or going up the hell instead of down. Yet another thing is undercroft which is part of duviri that is much closer to void, in there we can REWRITE events, thats honestly amazing.

Thanks for the info : ) You mentioned in your other post that Rebecca hinted at sentients during tennocon, where did she hint that ?

Where did you guys got info what this tennocon is supposed to be about ?

Fundamentally a lot ties to how void functions, DE was hiting how it works sine some times and they outright confirmed it in current update, in citrin last wish there was mention of how emotions connected crystals of Rania and Belric creating void tunnel between them making it impossible to completly seperate them, duviri update reinforced that idea with how duviri was created by drifter, and lore in the current update even mentions how void travel is only safe if you control your emotions. Void in a way functions in similar way to warp from warhammer, a place where emotions can manifest as something real, in warhammer chaos gods were created by the emotions and collective desires of every sentient being of the material universe, but void in a way is even more dangerous than warp, you dont need whole species worth of collective emotions and desires, ONE person emotions is enough to create something extremly dangerous or something huge, for example "Man in the wall" is not something that Albrecht Entrati found in the way, its something he MANIFESTED in the void, its manifestation of his FEAR, that may sound disappointing to some but thats pretty similar way to how chaos gods in warhammer were created and just because it was created by Albrecht Entrati doesnt mean that it doesnt have its own goals now, something so powerful like Man in the wal was created by single person. Drifter also created whole Duviri, keep in mind that current Duviri is just shadow of former self, most islands being destoyed by either Thrax or Man in the wall. Orginally Duviri was enormous, From horizon to horizon lay island after island, it had so many islands that counting them all was hard to do for someone who was flying over them. Most dangerous part of void is that you can manifest in there something that can break laws of physics of normal reality and that thing can still enter normal reality and than it can break laws of physics in normal reality, thats pretty much what happens with man in the wall and his fingers, Reliquary Drive uses man in the wall finger(well its more like copies of his fingers and not the fingers themselves) ability to break laws of physics to travel at FTL speeds in normal reality.