[[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread]

On 9.4.2017 at 7:39 PM, Dragazer said:

LImbo damage falls of heavily against heavily armored units have you tried his 4 agaisnt level 100s bombards naalms and gunners? 

They barely lose any hp.

Yeah, assuming CP and armor striping/ignoring melee weapons would not exist, however they do to allow scaling on frames that do not come with infinite god mode and scaling HP ability casts. I mean the reason why a semi afk Limbo does 3 times more damage on Hirakon then my Saryn(what is already borderline OP, given how easy it is if you actually play the game) is not that he is a particular good player(heck he had 8 melee kills after 28 excavations and I had to clean his stasis bubbles with my melee because he was incapable to do that himself). 

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

Getting resources since the nodes is actually easier then ever, I have not spend a few hours killing Alad V non stop for Neural Sensor since.

Orikin Cellls: If you done tons of void survival for C rotation drops it never was a issue back in the day, even today just as back in the days you can get a decent amount just playing Helene on Saturn(I liked the old map more) or just grab them on Drako back in the days(assuming you where not afk like literally 90% of the players where on the map).

Also if you look for resources, Atlas, Necros or Hydroid will be much better, if you go way back you could have also used the all mighty Ms. Greed herself not only to stomp the mission but also loot it at the same time.

[Will continuous weapons' status chance ever be fixed?]

On 8.4.2017 at 2:09 AM, taiiat said:

again... if that was a problem, then someone firing an Assault Rifle at a very high Rate of Fire at an Enemy would have blown up your Framerate just the same.

my reasoning that it's a load of crap, is because creating the same type of situation with 'normal' Weapons isn't hard to do and is very common.
a perfect example should be... switching Modes, and using Void Laser. if it isn't a load of crap, then that should cause the same problems considering it sends Damage Packets just like Continuous Weapons used to - dozens per second (infact i'd be hard pressed to call it anything but an old Continuous Weapon).

Well to be fair most assault rifles are hit scan and even more so come with 0 spread, what is not hard to calculate if you hit or not, since it is only done once(every 100ms if we go with the 10 rounds per second) and another client only have to tell yours that the player did fire the gun, to play a firing sound, a animation and reduce the HP of a unit if it was hit. While I am not sure about it since I do not know the code, void laser hit detection is most likely not communicated during the session, only if it damages units/players, since it is for the most part a static object. 

On a side note the Kohm with the bounce mechanic and simulated pellets with travel time did create very real lag, used with a lot of fire rate on mirrage even so much that you could crash the game and it is all gone since it became hit scan, because you no longer need the communication of the data for pellets mid air that prolonged her stay on the field by her bounce mechanic. 

[Will continuous weapons' status chance ever be fixed?]

 

On 7.4.2017 at 8:42 PM, Sebastianx said:

The weapons would still suffer from horrible hit detection and even with 100% status chance by default, if it procs once per second it gets overshadowed by weapons that can proc status multiple times per second and in an AoE. The most satisfying change is simply to increase the tick rate to that of the weapons fire rate.

It would be most likely easier to reduce the fire rate of a weapon to the tick rate and let multishot/fire rate mods not create more shots but simply buff damage/status on the existent ones. Status should be converted to status per tick(what would work like fire rate) and would be more in line how it works for example on a assault rifle, where 10 shots per second with 10% status also means 100% status at base.

 

On 7.4.2017 at 4:02 PM, Madway7 said:

There's also the issue of shotgun status/pellet, while not directly related to this, we do have 2 shotguns that are also beam weapons (Phage and Convectrix) and this issue makes them extremely unreliable with status 

Agreed, even if I would not call shotguns as reliable with status outside of status shotguns(akbronko, boar prime, strun wraith, Tigris prime, Kohm if you really want to) and the only ones that kind of work with under 100% are the fast reload/fire rate ones(mara detron, kohm, Twin komak komak). But then again status on shotguns should also be changed to pellet because it is kind of ironic that it is actual a bug that does add this and does work far more balanced then just giving your shotguns 50k damage per shot, because it does not liberate anything on the star map in a single pellet. It just happens to scale well, what does not create map clearing weapons at low levels and weapons that are not flawless(range, ammo use, spread, longer reloads) but still are actually quite competitive at high levels.

[thrown melee lifestike not working]

I can confirm that it is bugged on the Glaive prime and it is very annoying.

[Belated Magnetize Feedback]

I highly doubt that everybody would run it, given that the extra duration and the CC got it's use, with certain weapons even more so.

Also the AOE explosion is limited to 1 shot or enemy HP at higher levels, since it does not stay up. It is just higher damage up front instead of blocking weapon fire with diminishing returns on the AOE effect by the removal of the pull in mechanic and tuning down the damage of the AOE to what was actually required to kill that one unit. Pre rework mag was not broken, it was a niche frame and press 2 and everything dies was the incredible naive mindset of people that did not do a bit more then 30 excavations on Trition, since a lot of units did become immune to your one hit "scalable" ability by how shield vs HP and armor scaling works and did require specific weapons to deal with them time efficent.

Dumping duration over other stats was like Mag used to work, while it was not viable at very high levels( you surprisingly actually did need a few seconds of duration on BA as your main damage buff against armored stuff and protection from getting one hit killed at level 200+). I do not see the issue with a negative duration mag, same as I did not see a issue back in the days with dumping or stacking duration on Ember, what was depending or the level of content you wanted to play.

[Give Inaros a Health Regen per Second Bonus]

Why would you want 25 HP per second on Inaros? Just press 1 and do a channeled finisher with a good melee weapon, 100% HP restore at a instant.

I for myself have no idea why Inaros has so many abilities that restore HP when you in practical gameplay never use them over your 1 and the finisher mechanic.

 

[Weapon Damage (bows)]

On 3.4.2017 at 0:51 AM, taiiat said:

more people that wish to spam half a dozen Arrows at an Enemy to hope they get a couple Slash Status, heh.

in the time it took you to spam those bunch of Arrows, Rakta Cernos Killed it in one Shot, two tops.
which your Dread would probably do as well if you weren't making a Status loadout on a BOW (that isn't Mutalist).

Dread is fairly powerful in it's own rights, there is not reason to doubt that. Even if you, same as myself prefer the constancy of the rakta cernos. However it is mostly the extra mod slot by the lack of a need for speed trigger with primed bane mods or stuff like argon scope that gives the rakta cernos the upper hand in the end.

As for Paris prime(and normal paris), while it will do star chart and sorti just fine, the problem is that the puncture proc is not that good(same as the impact proc) and puncture damage scaling is a bit to limited since the armor ignore becomes progressively weaker with higher levels, same as the corrosive proc becomes progressively stronger. In general I think that the normal cernos and all the paris bows would benefit a lot of quick fire rate, this gives you one more mod slot to play with what is fairly good given the amount of very powerful mods for bows, in case of the paris even puncture mods(my vhek fully puncture modded just is incredible in elemental resist grenier sortis). If you really want to go a bit more creative give it a forced corrosive proc on every hit(multi shot included) to reinforce it's anti armor role at higher levels.

[Suggestions for Secondary Weapons Balance Pass]

On 1.4.2017 at 5:13 PM, Somb3rBivalve said:

stuff

Normal Brokos need a buff to be viable secondary shotguns with quick reload(1s for the normal, 1.6s for the ak) and useful mag size(4 for the normal, 8 for the ak version).

Bronko prime needs 1s reload and status buffed up to 30% to be the middle ground between Brakk(damage) and Detron(status). Akbronko prime 1.6s reload and 8 rounds(as it can be used at lower levels if you do not need 100% status on it) and 40% status to work with better scaling elemental combos then corrosive/blast(what is terrible and different to the boar prime the gun has so many other flaws that you can not fix it with a single riven).

Brakk vs Mara Detron is actually not that far off as most people will assume given the base damage numbers, they do produce very similar kill speeds at high levels since radiation base damage is fairly powerful and allows for better scaling status combinations than it is possible on IPS weapons. Detron should be buffed to Mara detron rof/clip size since this did actually put both of the old secondary shotgun aces on the same level + 5-10 more base damage. Mara detron should get a status buff to from 10% to 15% with no change to base damage. In a viral, radiation, fire status modding it is a very good gun for high levels since it disables healer and eximus auras, halves HP and does CC while the damage is fairly good as well(punches through a extra armor grenier sorti with just one CP done solo quite well).

As for the nerfs, do not let the normal forum people discourage you, nerfs are just as good as buffs to bring everything on the same level.

- Aksomanti(kind of the grakata with soma skin), I guess a damage nerf would be ok if you make it more accurate, same as the twin grakata should actually have grakata like spread(because that makes the grakata fun and does matter far less as you would assume for something that is not used for aimed head shots but to shower targets in status effects) in exchange for a bit more base damage/status to improve ammo efficiency(while a primed rifle ammo mutation can keep up with a prisma grakata for a 10 minute sorti, primed pistol ammo mutation can not with the twin grakata)

- LexP and Marlock should be knocked down to the 100 ish damage mark, there is not a single good reason why they should match brakk damage while having no limitations in range or the charge time like the rakta ballistic, no spread and being pin point accurate for extra head shot damage, in return for the LexP and AKLexP the reload times should go down to 1.6/2.4s.

- akstilleto prime, bring it in line with the braton prime, currently it does more damage, more status and being more ammo efficient as a primary prime weapon that fills the same niche what is plain stupid

 

 

[Belated Magnetize Feedback]

Since there are probably just as much people that like then there are people that dislike it they should add a augment to magnetize, since it just to often just blocks fire and potential damage.

1. No duration, explodes on death

2. Energy cost goes down to 25

3. Removal of the dot mechanic and pulling stuff to centre mass, buff the 200% damage bonus to 400% to allow power strength builds with negative duration really to hit as hard as the old mag did, with high damage multiplication, frequent explosions and without a problem for weapons.

As for polarise it should have the old percentage mechanic vs shields back, it is just plain bad in corpus sortis if you can not even wipe shields of the field as mag.

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 4.4.2017 at 0:33 AM, taiiat said:

that's a simple to solve issue that Digital Extremes simply has never done - anything with AoE having two Ranges:

one Range, LoS abiding
a second smaller Range, non LoS abiding

then you can make sure it hits things that are "WTF IT'S RIGHT THERE", but still prevent things from hitting everything that exists at once.
problem solved, really.

The problem is most likely that DE only uses one point on a target(most likely in the centre of the unit or item) to what makes even small objects block LOS. While units should have multiple points on them to check for LoS to prevent lessen this problems your walk around of combining full AOE at for example the first 10m would already help a lot, given that you see so often that targets halve around the corner but literally next to the target you shot are not affected by the AOE or even a small cover protects against LOS mechanics.

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 3.4.2017 at 7:49 AM, Medane said:

That really doesn't help any of those frames cases and in fact, highlights another problem entirely.  The problem with many of the older Warframe skills is that they were built to compliment and serve as their own damage in addition to firearms and melee.  (I don't think the devs expected people to play to the infinite scaling meta early on, of which I think the meta is cancerous anyway). Slash Dash, Radial Javelin, etc, Fireball, WoF.  WoF's only significant change is that it does damage (and actually doesn't do much on grineer heavies past 28 anyways, but that's another story.)  That's only bandaided out with the augment mods that gives it knockdown to reduce enemy damage, which really doesn't contribute much to her damage.  The only other ability she received was the change of her 2, from a 90% damage reduction to the firebuff/CC we have now, which is basically the only skill you described that's used for damage.  Not very thematic at all, and frankly a waste of her (again) 1 and 3 abilities which are left in the dust.  I'm not saying she alone should be carried by her abilities, but that's exactly what her four does to begin with (to a negative extent), which ends up being nullified in usefulness later on from scaling (damage wise.)  Then, her only useful gimmick from there is her 2.  Most frames do have two trash abilities anyways, but Ember suffers from it far more because they're almost literally useless at scaling.  

((ALSO, CAN I SAY IT'S REALLY NICE TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO WRITE LONG TEXTS WITH THOUGHT AND HAVE REASONABLE DEBATES HERE?  You're all awesome for not devolving this to over-generalizations for the most part.))

@ literally the entire thread, this won't be solved until Ember is completely reworked.  WoF is effective but requires too little effort at lower levels but is completely unrewarding at higher levels.  However, the reason most people don't want to change ember is 1: her current place in the meta that most people do not want to disrupt, and 2: her other abilities flat out suck (effectively useless past certain levels), meaning that any changes to WoF results in tentative debates on imbalance.  We can't go anywhere unless we rip it all out from the roots and rework her entirely.  

Depends, I do not consider being relaying on gun play to be a flaw, it is a co op shooter with super powers in the end,

Most of the abilities scale a bit higher than you might assume. WoF in particular is subject to double scaling by the accelerant mechanic, if you add status from weapons to the mix 18k fire damage(can up to 44k+ with viral vs flesh/light infested) per hit with the dot is quite good, even at L100.

It is correct that accelerant is the main ability to give Ember punch in high level content and to stay alive at the same time. I actually would call it very thematic, since different to any other damage buffing ability it only does cover the element of your frame, what makes it kind of a personal damage buff in pugs, since people not suddenly start to run around weapons build around fire damage, even with the amount of Embers around.

As for Fireball, it does the same what most 1 abilities do, it is a quick CC what you can do during reload. Could it be more interesting and useful? Yes, it could but then again DE would have to redo the 1 on a lot of frames. Compared to them it is actually fine(scales a bit better to).

Fire Blast is a niche AOE denieal tool that just does not work and is hardly used outside of revives(where the  push back is more useful to protect you a few seconds from melee units). Make the hole ring burn by default and give it a high status chance to slow down stuff with a fire proc. Make the augment triple the duration and set the status chance to 100% so it becomes just as chilling globe a good area denial tool(back in the days of duration snow globe the trick was not to put a snow globe on the excavator but snow globe all the spawn points towards the excavator, where you can play L200+ excavation with hardly firing a singe shot outside of energy cell carriers that you need to kill to progress).

The extra CC and damage is quite worth it to run WoF at high levels, different to before the rework where you did die in the cast animation quite a lot and it was not really worth the energy, given that it only lasted 8s. You basically played Ember at high levels without WoF, similar to how you play Ember melee, you just spam accelerant since WoF disables rage what is a massive blow to your QT survivability, does next to no CC, has no range, no damage and gets you killed guaranteed. The reason I have no issues with changes to the current WoF is that the false expectation of safety at higher levels can make it just as lethal to you as it is to low level units.

While it is correct that most frames got 1-2 dominant abilities and the rest hardly used, Ember is not really a exception to that. What you describe as a scaling problem of her abilities is like I stated before more a issue how good or bad Ember scales with certain weapons and building around accelerant. Basically people that complain about Ember stops being effective at L50 and me pointing out you can solo all your sortis with it are both right, since Ember can be all of that at the same time, this is how much gear instead of ability use plays a key role with the frame. The scaling is there, it is just hard to impossible to acquire for most people and does not really produce game breaking results but something that is more or less in line with other damage frames while being a bit different in application.

Edit: In many ways Ember is considered bad because there is so much OP stuff and since it is a rather balanced frame in a totally unbalanced game, what diminishes her strength and show off her weaknesses, compared to frames that do not come with any because of bad balance, compared to perma invisibility, god mode, unlimited scaling damage and dps weapons that make status weapons look like a joke even far beyond L100. Back in the days Ember was not better by doing more damage then now, it was better because other people had limitations just as you, while having a harder time to overcome that limitations, since Ember in the end has not only the flaw to be gear depended(similar to power strength) but also scales better then other frames with it. This means you do not solve a problem you run into with Ember at level X, you kind of solve it for all levels, what means you run around with the same low dps weapon at L10 as you do at L100, while it kills nearly at the same speed, because there is no other frame in the game is so much status depended, it has the bigger benefit to Ember as on other frames(no you can play Saryn without gas, and it is just as much if not more dps as with it) and comes at zero damage cost what is different to any other damage frame in the game. 

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 3.4.2017 at 7:59 PM, Rolunde said:

And for people that really do like Ember, wouldn't it be nice if she were totally viable for Sortie-3 and beyond?! Instead of largely having a frame meta of

"only farm (re: 'speed run') low-level missions and frame swap if going over level 50".

Ember is kind of a comfortable frame to do your daily sorti solo if you really like the frame with the downside, that I explained before in the topic, that the frame is very gear depended and archive it's scaling with accelerant and weapons specificity build around that ability. Make no mistake Ember can be a incredible powerful CC frame with status weapons(that can solo all kinds of defence stuff with it) while being a very hard hitting damage frame at the same time. It is just that how to archive that is:

A: not being obvious, while not being broken for people that figured it out(like I did say farily balanced dps frame, that does perform quite balanced compared to other damage frames, like Saryn)

B: Status is hardly used this days so people are not that familiar with all the things you can do with it and that accelerant by it's single damage type bonus scales better on status weapons than damage weapons what you see above, chewing through L100 nearly as fast as though L20 grenier with a shotgun that got so much spread and so little base damage that it is hardly used at all, even as prime weapon.

C: Ember does require a player with a good understanding of when to play offensive and defensive as well as very quick HP and shield regeneration to work(you will still die to one hit damage, till DE figures out that unlimited scaling of things that already should hurt on lower levels is one of the main things that turns a overall enjoyable shooter with super powers into boring sessions of standing around and pressing buttons at higher levels).

People are actually right if they complain that the frame, if you only use WoF, is no big use at higher levels, while the way around that is complex and ultimately only leads to something that is quite comparable with other damage frames for punch. Keep in mind Ember was much more potent then most other damage frames back in the days before certain weapons, crit mods and frame rebalances, one of the reasons why I play it as main. It is in some ways a bit disappointing given that playing Ember right is difficult and that it is pure glass at high levels, however it is unlikely to ever see that kind of Ember again outside of a damage 3.0 done right, what is again very unlikely. However she still keeps her added benefit of far better CC as a trade off that you have to compensate very good for your low HP to stay on your feet.

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 3.4.2017 at 2:26 AM, Almagnus1 said:

Except that she's strictly inferior to my sortie Inaros build, doesn't do enough focused DPS to replace Exalted Blade Excalibur, is a horrible choice compared to an Irradiating Disarm Loki for spy missions, and Ember is starting to become less appealing than an Effigy Chroma build for Defense-type missions.  There's also a Speed/Slow Nova and Razorwing Titania in the works - not to mention the leveling of other warframes, but that's something you can see if you check my profile ingame.

Ember just happens to fill a very specific niche in my roster because of WoF.  I don't see a need for WoF to be changed because IMO WoF is fine as it is.

Way to make assumptions about the people that don't want to screw with Ember...

Well the thing about Inaros and Excalibur is simply that DE is very bad at balancing melee, so what you get is A useless or horrible overpowered with little in between. I actually run most of the sorti spy missions with Ember(or another frame) if it is not something like elemental resist, since you get some extra focus and standing for the kills from vault to vault and it is not really slower.

Ember is much better then Chroma in any kind of defence mission, for the simply reason that she got CC, while Chorma is more tank/weapon damage orientated for Survival.

Again you can do what people do with Ember with most frames that do damage with her 4 at lower levels just as good.

Like I did say, while I have all the frames(except Excalibur, was my starter 3 years ago and I sold the frame to make room for Ember, I still have one in my foundry but never had the itch to play it again) and all the weapons and also formaed them a lot. I just use Ember the most because if you did go the long way to get really into it, it was far better then anybody was giving it credit for since it was in all the guides unexplained outside WOF(most guides even miss to mention that accelerant works on all fire damage instead of just abilities, what was a major game changer for me looking at the frame). Imaging Ember back in the days as incredible broken dps frame at high levels, while having the general image of being terrible.

Quite similar to today's sorti defence, where single prisma grakata vs 3 soma prime does reinforce that you do not necessarily look for a scalpel as Ember, most times a big hammer will not only do 70%+ team damage it will also stop anything you look at for good at putting scratch a single scratch into your frame(yeah I left the mission with 0% damage taken as close range dps), quite different to the Nyx or Trinity in the mission that did go down multiple times with the almighty soma prime and her far superior defensive abilities(last time I played Nyx in soti people companied it was to boring).

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 2.4.2017 at 9:44 PM, Medane said:

@Djego27 though, I find it amusing you say she scales well past 50 but is "incredibly gear dependent."  All that says to me is that she's carried by her weapons that can compliment her mediocre utility that's only implemented by her bandage ability mods.  At level 50+. she no longer feels like a fire caster, just another frame that falls to the issue of scaling. 

That is not entirely true. Sure a strong weapon helps, like on any frame but the effectiveness of a weapon for you is entirely depended on how good it can improve fire scaling and not really how powerful it is in the hands of other frames. This weapons do not even have to be top of the line, however most of them are fairly specific, so are the mods you need.

Take the Mara detron. Do you think another frame would have a good time with a status modded radiation/viral/fire shotgun pistol with a ridiculous spread as it's only weapon while soloing a tier 3 infested Excavation sorti? I don't, you would have a incredible bad time with that gun in that mission. On Ember however it is the best thing since sliced bread against Infested, not because it is the best weapon in the game but it actually does add aura ignore to all your frame based fire damage, your weapon damage as well as preventing your CC to get sucked up by healers, what is incredible powerful and makes Ember actually really really good at dealing with high level infested(different to common believe Ember is actually considerable weaker vs infested then any other faction at high levels because Healers do not only reduce your damage to nothing, they do the same with your CC).

It is also not only weapons, but also figuring out how to make a squishy frame able to take some serious beating at higher levels, what can not be archive by mods per see but has to be archived by constant and very rapid shield and health restoration, the reason why I use a raksa kubrow and specific build glaive prime is just that.

It is a bit like not calling Saryn a caster because things stop to die when you press 4. What you do is press 1 and shoot stuff with AOE gas weapons or what is actually even quicker and scales probably a lot better then it should with a acid shell sobek(45% of the total HP damage on kill  as AOE is fairly powerful if you have the hole map at 50% HP and dots ticking on them, even beyond L100).

Volt, Mag, Saryn, Nova etc. there are many Frames that actually relay on weapons to give certain abilities scalability. It is just a bit different on Ember and for the most part much more extreme.

 

On 2.4.2017 at 10:42 PM, Almagnus1 said:

IMO Ember's fine as is.

She's my goto farming frame and her AoE actually works well when I'm playing with my friends that <3 CC frames.

I mean, if I'm doing high level content, I'm going to go with a different frame, and even when I need to bring the CC, Ember's not my first choice.  She's got a great niche as a farming frame, and screwing with WoF is going to force me to go find another frame.

Yeah, I get that on the lower level star chart missions WoF essentially deletes the mobs there, but that's what makes her good as a farming frame...

It is not really a niche when a lot of frames can do it(yeah even rino can run through a exterminate and press 4 ever 40 meters). It just requires less button pressing, movement and thinking in the end, what is the main reason it is used so much. Then again if you look into ranges, builds and what damage you need for certain levels most people actually should use Equinox instead of Ember(bigger range, armor ignore, self heal, press 4 if something refuses to die, ability to redirect weapon damage that is more single target, like a tigris prime as massive AOE by the press of a button).

I play Ember every day and I would not ditch her over a WoF change, I did play her every day when she was considered terrible as well, even if you could do exactly the same thing back then with the frame as you can do now. It is kind of funny, because people actually did next to no damage back in the days without tonkors, simulors, gamacores, syndicate weapons, broken crit mods, while Embers dps did not change that much over the years. It is peaty much "If everybody is special, nobody is!".

The only niche that Ember fills is being the least understood dps frame in the game, to a point where people relay on one ability that does what they define as the function of the frame by the press of a button and it's rng AOE mechanic. Ember was quite powerful without WoF back in the days and even now she does all right without it. The problem is just that why would you play a fairly different frame, with different weapons, that is a bit harder to play then most if there are so many options that can do the same thing just as good. The answer in my case would be simply because I never really looked into other options, because you could do things with Ember well enught. How is yours?

 

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

On 28.3.2017 at 0:37 AM, (PS4)Kubbes said:

Ember is my main frame. From a long time ago now.

I agree that her ultimate is "to easy".

It could also be change to a close quarter type by reducing its range a lot and increase the status so this will be deadly with melee weapons. The combo with accelerant will be more strategic.

But it will not be World of Fire anymore but "Ignite" because of its range. Like a kind of burning anger.

Well you do not really use WoF in a melee build, since after modding for rage, armor and survivability WoF is just very expensive and short ranged anyway. Also before high levels it would kill stuff before you get there what makes building and keeping the melee counter up harder.

 

On 28.3.2017 at 0:05 PM, Shockwave- said:

Then you should nerf Equinox, Banshee, and Saryn first. All three outkill ember by basically standing there.... when they are done, hopefully DE will have fulfilled their nerf quota for the whiners and leave ember alone.

The meta whiners are actually much worse then people that point out what they think could be improved in the game they play. This is simply because they never present a argument what could be discussed.

For Equinox I actually do agree, Banshee not so much since while you can solo with it like with any frame it is mostly build around filling a specific support role at high levels, similar like Frost and Trinity. As for Saryn, I can no put my finger on it if people imagine Saryn to strong or Ember far to weak, probably a mix of both.

On 28.3.2017 at 9:43 PM, DeadScream said:

On one hand, you have Nidus who, with some effort, can build a very interesting strenght and resistance so he stays useful and viable in front of enemy scaling. On the other hand, you have Ember who ruins low level missions experience just by walking, while not being able to scale pass lvl 50. And you dare telling the problem is not Ember ?

Ember can scale past L50 without any issues, however WoF not so much, assuming you want it as your main tool for killing stuff. In my opinion the problem is basically that Ember is not explained very well(look up any youtube video and they will state that Ember can not scale), is incredible gear depended(much more then other frames) and is not really broken for dps at high levels to actually justify that(you could stay it was a edge case years ago with specific weapons, before syndicate weapons and crit power creep, but this days are long gone), I would actually call it a fairly honest and balanced dps frame at high levels.

On 28.3.2017 at 9:43 PM, DeadScream said:

SQ and Maim are the worst things, even more SQ with this stupid augment. Saryn... I don't know, maybe she is too strong on low levels too. 

Well, if you want Ember to stay weak I guess you have your reasons.

In Saryns case for the most part not really, since most of the tools of the frame do not work on low levels(spore spreading), AOE melee, massive HP reduction ability, simply because stuff dies to quick. Hammering just 4 after the changes last year is more or less as effective as on other frames. I for myself never really liked the Saryn changes, not because I used it all day and suddenly lost my frame to do that, but because it did not really make a one dimensional frame less one dimensional. While Saryn from time to time can be fun, I for myself find the dependence on Zenruik or rage(because of the very high energy use if you have to spam miasma for CC), the very poor single target damage, a molt that loses most of it's purpose at high levels by getting one hit killed, the lack of quick CC on spores like it is present on nearly every 1 in the game and halve a melee ability for the sake of "because it is AOE" could really need some more work.

[Utility vs Damage. A discussion about current Metagame]

Well you probably would need damage 3.0, not as it will probably just come out as a few tweaks and hoping for the best what I kind of expect from DE(mostly by my experiences in the past with the bigger changes).

What I would do if I had the time and a team to get it done in a reasonable amount of time.

1. Rebalance enemy scaling.for damage, so we do not end up getting one hit killed without cheesing at high levels, damage should cap at L80-100 ish levels and warframe survive abilities should also be balanced around this kind of damage(no more 95% damage resistance for Mesa for example, knock it down to 50-60%).

2. Rebalance enemy scaling for EHP. Currently everything just scales fairly linear like HP so does armor however it does not work like HP but a multiplier to HP. Armor should be it's own HP bar and still protect against damage(cap it at 90%, only make 50% applied by or current way of armor scaling, the rest till the 90% hard cap comes form the percentage of armor left compared to the total amount), however this protection can be removed by all damage with the current damage bonuses and takes massive damage from elements that are good against it currently with her typical armor reduction when it comes to the damage calculation. This allows that you can give certain enemy units 30k HP and 30k armor now without becoming completely unmanageable without corrosive procs, while it would massively favour status weapons with corrosive on them(another weapon would have to deal with the 90% damage reduction mechanic full time, what is still a lot less bad as it is currently at high levels, while weapons that highly focus on strong elements destroy the armor before the HP are gone, while status weapons go around that with fairly linear scaling since it does not matter if the target got 8k armor or 80k, the amount of procs to deplete that is the same).

Corpus should get her own armor type, that could be weak against magnetic for example but strong against toxin and gas and should be on brusas, combas and eximus robotics. Flip the shield to HP balance on Techs to shields and give them proto shields(that can not penetrated by toxin). Then reduce the magnetic proc to 50% shield reduction over 6s with a 5% shield loss(percentage based for scaling). In general this makes magnetic and other elements good vs shields more viable against corpus again.

Infested. Stop adding disruptor or toxic auras to heavy units, only small units can receive the buff(healer auras are ok since they have a status counter). Allow magnetic procs to disable this auras on the target for the 6s, same as radiation procs can disable healer auras. Reduce the HP of all heavy units by 50% and give them a new infested armor type that works like the grenier one but is capped at 30% from the numerical value as well as 30% from the percentage remaining on the target(60% in total) that can be affected by status as well as elements that scale good against it. Auras like eximus leech should also no longer be able to stack, require line of sight and draw a line to the player(like trinity link) so you know what unit drains your energy.

3. IPS & Element rebalance:

Puncture not only gets the damage and armor reduction bonus buff to 75% vs ferrite and 50% vs alloy when it comes to damage calculation, but also deals 200% of the puncture damage done to the armor and procs become finisher damage(armor ignore). A unit with 300 armor(50% damage reduction) and ferrite armor gets hit for 100 puncture damage. It would receive 175 damage(puncture damage bonus against the armor) against the armor with 29.5% damage reduction(300 * 0,75 / (300 + (300 * 075)) ) what is 123 and would result into a total 243 damage done to the armor after the 200% bonus. A boltor hit would knock a 50% damage reduction down to 18.25% in a single hit while also dealing 123 damage to the targets HP and fully depleting the armor in the next one.

This gives puncture a very good performance in destroying the armor as well as a lot of use for puncture based status weapons(tellos boltor should be the puncture status rifle instead of the boltor prime side grade for example).

Impact gets the damage bonus vs shields upgraded to 100% and 25% damage bonus against all armor types. The proc will also remove 20% of the current max armor on proc(most of the good anti armor status weapons are impact and even modded for other status it gives a impact status weapons a fair amount of scalability).

Slash stays as it is, but slash procs do now scale off full weapon slash damage(including slash mods) instead of just base damage/what was base damage + base damage mods). Damage vs fossilized units is buff to 50%(to also get the 50% armor reduction).

Elements:

Normal elemental mods are reduced to 30% damage bonus, status mods to 20% while the 90% ips mods are reduced to 45%, 120% ones to 60%. This gives IPS modding more purpose as well as reduces the overall damage we got by a lot. The primed elemental mods get reduced to 60%, blaze stays as it is.

The normal status mods get bumped from 30% to 120% and reduced to 4 mod point cost maxed, electric status mods get added to spy like the others.

Electric: Add a chance of chaining to another unit within 10 meters applying the proc to that unit as well every 1s of being CCed with the status chance of the weapon. This will massively improve the CC on most weapons that are not a amprex and kind of does something similar with the chain mechanic.

Cold: Place a 10m big ring on any target hit by a cold proc, the effect should work like frosts ice wave impedance, massively slowing attack and movement speed for soft CC.

Fire: Fire should get the 50% damage bonus against heavy Infested units and also a 25% armor reduction/damage bonus against the new infested armor. It should also get the 50% damage bonus against corpus flesh(what for some reason is not weak to fire).

Toxin: Make the dot deal 5 times the damage against armor. This will make it very good in combination with effects that remove armor and much better vs heavy Infested or on a magnetic\toxin weapon vs the new corpus armor.

Radiation: Units should be more offensive during the duration of the proc, because it can be often useless if they just take her time to take cover(similar to nyx mind control where it also should be changed).

Viral: Make the proc 12s duration and remove 5% of the total HP of the target before the effect runs out and only then. This would make viral much better on weapons that can not keep it up full time, where it is currently kind of hit and miss.

Magnetic: Buff the damage bonus to 100% vs shields, make the proc remove all aura buffs(eximus, Infested healers, disruptors, toxic ancients) and give it 75% damage bonus against the new corpus armor.

Gas: Does stay as it is.

Corrosive: Does stay as it is.

Blast: The AOE effect, that is a know down proc, can roll for status with the status chance of your weapon on a additional status proc(can be blast as well with a chain reaction but also anything else your weapon is modded for).

 

4. Rebalance weapons

Remove base damage and multi shot mods and build that into the weapon as a levelling bonus. Shotguns can do without primed point blank since the status per pellet mechanic makes them very strong in the new system without excessive dps(Hek and Tigris still should be knocked down a bit in damage). Make utility mods like reload speed, mag capacity, zoom, ammo mutation etc very cheap like 3-4 points for a maxed out one. Raise the cost for pure elemental/IPS mods by 1-2 and the cost of crit related mods by 2-3, so you need to make trade-offs on your T3 weapons what reduces her power. Make body count a core mechanic of the melee counter and remove or serious tune down the acolyte mods.

Make 4 tiers.

Starter tier 1: Low MR market weapons, they gain a additional mod point every 3 levels, utility and usability should be good without any mods(for example strun and mk1 strun should have 0.25s reload per shell) while the extra mod points allow the player to max it get it to good performance without to much forma or a catalyst. The removes the "I should not forma or use a catalyst because I get a better weapon soon." issue and gives newer players something worth play with and invest into it before moveing on.

Normal tier 2: 30 mod points as it is now and still not to many drawbacks, weapons should follow a certain guideline for overall effectiveness, what the elemental and armor/shield rebalance would allow, since status is more valuable again and damage weapons do not scale that much better by the elemental mods being knocked down in power.

Special tier: You do not get mod points for the last 5 levels, that means your weapon will only have 25/50 mod points, what with the changes to crit and damage mods makes modding a lot harder and forces compromises. This tier should have all the syndicate weapons(and the weak ones should need a look to justify that), very strong special weapons like the prisma dual cleavers, the mara detron(give the normal detron what would be tier 2 the stats of the mara, give the mara 20% base status) or strun wraith as overpowered stuff like the staticor, Hek, Tigris or Zar. Weapons that are quite strong but have a lot of downsides or need hybrid modding(like crit/status on the prisma grakata) should be considered to be placed into the normal tier, same as bows and snipers in general given her very different and situational game play(rakta cernos would still be special tier being a syndicate weapon, however it is my most preferred bow in the game and a mod slot for something else then speed trigger different to other bows so fair enught).

Prime Tier: It would be normal tier within 10-15% damage and extra status to help with scaling but with 30 mod points. Take the Boar prime as perfect example of what a primed weapon should be, it got a bit more damage and status then the normal version(the status chance of the normal one should be 30%, 40% on the prime) but the difference that extra status can archive is very big at high levels. It is not a map wide death machine(what is funny because it actually got the spread to accomplish that) but lower damage weapon with some serious drawbacks that scales incredible well into high levels against armor given it's status mechanics. It does not need 50k damage, like another primed shotgun has, per shot to be a good weapon and it does not outshine other weapons in normal content at all, where it is just a low range, high spread, super fun golden boom stick that does the same or less damage as other people do with her normal weapons.

In general weapons in the same tier should be fairly comparable with different strength and weakness. It is ok for a Tiberon to do more damage than a burston(that would be tier 1) and ok for it to fall off at L80 by the lack of status and crit where the burston prime shines. It is not ok that the galatine prime is plain better then the scindo prime, it would be much better to slightly reduce the damage below the scindo prime with a 20% higher attack speed(crazy good with tempo royal for CC and heavy hits in the combos) while giving the scindo a better channelling multiplier to really wreck faces with channelled ground finishers. Soma prime vs boltor prime was very good as well before you added the event crit mods, more of this, especially when different base damage types, status chance and actually having bigger issues with high level units again comes back into play.

Also limit self damage to base damage of the weapon itself unmodded. While this still hurts it is not the one hit kill mechanic we have today, even if you are just at the edge of the explosion.

5. Warframe reballance

Damage reducing or ignoring abilities should be tuned down by a lot, to not provide a 20-50 times better ability to take damage but still provide a serious(3-10 times) better ability to take damage, however since damage will no longer one shot any normal frame at high levels it is still very powerful. Inarus should be tuned down to 1.2k HP since this is still a very high amount of HP in the new system. HP mods would make a impact on all frames at higher levels. Invisibility should have units that can counter it(probably easier to implement then better AI to deal with it). Infinite scaling stuff like Equinox gets tuned down to not be able to consume the damage of another equinox etc.

6. Rewards for endless play

Back in the days you saved keys in endless play and it did feel more rewarding to play to higher levels since you got more stuff for the same amount of keys spend. Now that our damage is much lower and playing higher is again difficult add 2 mechanics to endless missions. The first would be 2.5% buff to uncommon and rare stuff drop chance per rotation, so rotation C item with 5% base chance would drop at 10% chance at the 60 minute mark C rotation reward. The second would be that you get showed what the relic would drop and have the chance to not use the roll in endless fissure missions, keeping your relict(at least 2 times in a mission so you can roll 3 times on a C rotation in a 60 minute run and take the best result, even if I think it should be endless if we lose infinite scaling, so the 12.5% drop chance at 80 minutes does motivate you to give it just "one more" try while already kind of struggling). Combined with the buff to drop rate this would give people plenty of reason to stay in a survival for 80 minutes for the better chance to finally get her rare item out of her 2-3 relict's that took a day to farm.

We should not kill L100 enemy units every day in a daily like the sorti, it should feel rewarding and challenging to play to that levels instead of seeking satisfaction in endless increasing numbers that our guns still can handle and every blink of a eye not spending in perma map CC or invis/god mode cheese is instant death we should actually be able to play that missions and our inability to combat high levels units should be more of a issue then getting one hit killed by a Napalm shooting it's gun in the next room and insta kill you with the AOE damage.

[Utility vs Damage. A discussion about current Metagame]

59 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

And as you say while Damage has been greatly buffed with shotguns such as Tigris or Hek series Status remains the same and the once powerful mechanics rendered invalid by Auras or Waframes abilities, that's why I propose an update for Status effects. But overall I agree with you tho.

In case of shotguns DE could have done a better job by just using what is already in her game, a bug that is very well tested to a point where it defines certain weapons and actually would allow reasonable well scaling without adding super high damage while also making status similar to other weapon classes where it scales linear instead of hitting 100% or your weapon is pointless or status mods are not worth it at all because they only add a fraction of what they would add to other weapons by the pellet mechanic(what makes non stackable dps procs useless for damage and also adds a fair amount of status chance lost just because not all pellets will hit the target).

100%+ status weapons are incredible rare, for the most part it would be just status shotguns, that do not really need a buff, since they do perform fine once you fix them with riven mods(I do however not agree with DEs balance for them, you do not get a OP weapon or a more powerful meta gun out of it, you just get a working status shotgun, what is fairly good, with a lot of drawback and it's a niche gun), not for massive extra damage or crit but plain reload speed or status chance, because this is the thing what makes them pointless and not fixable with other mods reasonable well, at least if you consider playing zoomed in and hitting 2 ever 8s with a event mod as painful, if you do it a hour non stop.

As for status weapons in general, look at it this way. Status weapons are for the most part very limited weapons and have clear use case where they are great or just terrible with the same mods, in case of the void even in the same mission. The reason why people used them was because they could do things her damage weapons could not do depending on the level of content, assuming you did go for higher levels you had to use them while a lot of people just did stick to the levels her weapons could handle easy. If you now give the normal damage weapons the ability to handle this levels as well, there is hardly any kind of reason to use that status weapons.

[Utility vs Damage. A discussion about current Metagame]

30 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

You answered this yourself during the rest of your post by exsplaining in full detail why players go with a certain meta, where maximization plays a huge rol, but for the sake of the argument let's call it "end-game viable"

Well status weapons where a meta in itself and just as much subject to min maxing as damage weapons today, given that are more specific in application and have a few more details to them like how the damage spread affects what effects are the most common or that you in most cases needed a utility mod to compensate for the various drawbacks(like primed ammo mutation on the prisma grakata or firestorm on the Thorid etc.) you could argue that they even where a bit more subjected to that.

Then again the meta 3 years back kind of was that most people played only 40 minutes of void survival in pick up groups and you could bring nearly everything from the almighty boltor prime to my Tiberon that was my first weapon I did forma 5 times and put a catalyst on. If people wanted to stay longer, without organized frame synergy and more or less killing with abilities, you did require a bit more knowledge what status weapons will provide plus what you need and how to mod them, since they where as uncommon in normal game play as they are today. You also had to invest a high amount of resources into it(like the Strug for example or a normal grakata). I for myself invested a lot of resources in my akbronko prime what did help scaling decently to 60 minutes with Ember, since you just showered heavy gunners and bombards in corrosive procs. Back in the days nobody questioned somebody for bringing for example a strug to a 60 minutes run(that was much more difficult back then) because people that did bring this niche weapons had in general a fully formaed build(different to most people that did the 40 minute runs) and did exactly know why and how to use that gun.

There was also far less of a meta back then. For the most part it was just boltor prime, best weapon in the game, even if it started to run into issues at the 40 minute mark, 50(L80) ish with status mods and heavy calibre instead of the normal damage mods. Most weapons actually did not used to be universal good by modern standards and this was all most people had. You pretty much had to use a specific 2. weapon to deal with mechanics that your damage weapon could not, because it actually had issues killing stuff. If you compare it to now, it does not matter so much how you mod your Tonkor(as long as you put some crit mods and serration on it) or other meta guns and you will not need a 2. weapon to help to compensate for weaknesses with your main weapon, since there are hardly any and you do not really need status effects to punch through L100 sorti missions, this can be all done fairly easy with my vaykor hek instead of my boar prime, the first one actually still manages the job a bit quicker and does not need ammo restores or standing directly in front of the target.

55 minutes ago, zzzNitro said:

Here's where this discussion is important, in those days it wasn't difficult to see people preffering status over damage or viceversa thus broadening the meta.

I would not say that, status shotguns where(if you roll a good riven they still are) just incredible good vs armor by the way the apply status and being the highest proc/s weapons in the game by a bug(that turns 1 status effect per shot into like 20, what is the reason why they scale so good against the application where you need the highest amount of procs for) while the other shotguns could be used but where basically rifles with damage falloff, spread and less damage. While increasing the range a bit and giving them the damage to become interesting was a good idea, DE overdid it for the most part to a point where the vaykor hek was the best sniper rifle in the game(even after 50% damage falloff at range and spread it was still miles better then a actual sniper rifle to take out a target at any range). In my opinion less would have been more, by simply giving all shotguns the status per pellet mechanic a bit more range and letting damage decay over range more(like to 30% or 20% cap) and a lot less damage(specific tigris and hek versions). It works on the lowest damage shotguns in the game reasonable well, without making them completely outplay other weapon classes(like snipers or normal assault rifles) while still giving them good scalability and a lot of use at high levels.

1 hour ago, zzzNitro said:

That's the most common issue, in today's game you'll find that building towards red crit gives a substantial pay off while once a status build reaches 100% there's no point in going overboard.

There is no such thing as going overboard with status for the most part. If you mod a gun to stack corrosive procs to some degree because it is the weakest proc against the strongest EHP mechanic in the enemy scaling but the guns that can be modded against this with 100% status or even more(what are mostly status shotguns) are already very good against that. For example on my mara detron I use a status build and you only need 50% ish status chance to proc radiation, fire for CC and viral for halve HP every 2-3 seconds, you can not get over 100% with the gun and you build your status modding around that by using non stackable single effect procs that last a few seconds.

Red crits in contrast to that are for the most part just a damage mechanic that was given exclusive to bows and snipers to help with the scaling before DE opened up a ton of weapons to it with the event mods.

1 hour ago, zzzNitro said:

Instead of looking at damage weapons being too good I look at it as an opportunity to make Status weapons "just as" good. A new mechanic or rather, an updated mechanic for status would branch out the current meta so that Crit weapons and Status weapons could stand on the same podium of "End Game Viable"

The problem is that you can not really do that with the current level of damage or stuff you can modify by status. The reason why you used a prisma grakata over a Soma prime was that it can deal with one mechanic, what is armor scaling, a lot better then the soma prime(while it can actually scale reasonable if you throw in a few status mods on it by the high fire rate as well). However this does come at the price of the need to be within 5m range of the target to do mag dumps and have all shots hit the target, high spread what makes head shot damage only useful in very short bursts(and if you want to play out the status power of the gun you need to do full auto mag dumps into stuff) and being incredible ammo inefficient by the much lower base damage(to a point where you spam ammo restores at L80 with primed ammo mutation where you will honestly still do fine with a soma prime for ammo).

Status weapons do not have her restrictions and being actually bad dps weapons for no reason. The reason for this is that they can provide very powerful mechanics far beyond of the scope of normal damage weapons that DE released back in the day by literally providing linear level independent anti armor scaling(it hardly matters if a target got 50k or 150k flesh under the armor on Ember and the shots needed to remove that armor are exactly the same at L50 as they are at L150). However this only is important if you would run into problems to kill stuff with your normal damage weapons nowadays, what you do not. The boar prime is a ideal weapon to kill a L150 eximus bombard in the void, at the same time it is terrible at kills moas or other stuff without armor at this level, simply because it deals fairly low damage with a massive spread and is vastly outplayed by my mara detron against anything without armor by a mile while the mara detron is not even considered good.

[Focus and lens questions]

This is a frame vs weapon breakdown from one of my runs back in the day. Both made the same amount, given that 50% of the Rakta Cernos is on Ember, what is mostly because you kill a lot of small units with frame abilities, but bigger units that are worth more affinity mostly with your weapon.

[Focus and lens questions]

You can buy a blueprint to make a greater lense out of 4 normal ones that you can get in sorti.

Warframes are the better choice since all XP from kills with your warframe abilities(think Ember, Saryn, Equinox or the mother of all greed Mag in her state before the change) and also 50% from kills with weapons. If you already got one on the frame or use a weapon pretty much all the time/or specific for long survivals/defence then it also works reasonable well.

Well you still get extra points but if you maxed all abilities you want there is hardly any point for them, untill DE adds more or changes the system(I got 1.8m zenurik left over and I only used the lense on mag).

Most people only go for shadow step and energy overflow, but other focus trees can be interesting for specific stuff, so it is up to your taste and time to farm that points.

Well this or you just put it on different frames that you use reasonable often or that are particular good at getting focus and giving them a spin if you want more points(like my Saryn in infested defence or excavation for example, even if I did not play it a lot outside of it).

I used to do 60 minutes ODD or 2k solo runs on hiracon(25k focus in a run, tons of keys, R5 fusion cores and nobody that runs to the exit after 5 minutes) with Ember before they added the boosters, in general just go to maps where people play to high levels, since most of the affinity is from eximus and high levels boost her spawn rate(like the excavations) or stay 4 rounds to level stuff and get relicts.

[Utility vs Damage. A discussion about current Metagame]

It has little to do with maximization. The idea behind status mods and status weapons where that they provided better scaling against certain enemy units compared to raw dps weapons/modding, that did fall off at some point hard. This was mostly archived by how bad armor scaling and it's counters work, it always was much less important for infested or Corpus(where you did destroy shields with magnetic damage, compared to just mod pure toxin on modern damage weapons and bypass it). This was at the expense of raw damage and in many cases fairly bad usability(like being ammo inefficient, having a longer reload, range limitations or other drawbacks).

There are still examples in the game where somebody at DE did a fairly reasonable job to balance stuff out with the Boltor/Soma prime vs Braton prime(after the buff)/prisma grakata that will catch up fairly good after L80 ish in armored targets kill speed while being otherwise inferior in usability and damage before that point.

In other cases like the old shotguns, boar prime and strun wraith where like a different weapon class compared to all other shotguns, because they did scale better than most weapons in the game against armored targets even while being much weaker with the base damage even before the rework then others in a weapon class that was considered to be just as bad as snipers. Then again the rework literally did feel like 2 people did balance shotguns and did not talk with each other, given that the status shotguns where both nerfed to a point where it made hardly any sense to use them(even for somebody like me that utterly loves the sound and the in the face game play of the boar prime) while the damage shotguns(hek and tigris variants in particular) where buffed so much that even in sortis or after 60 minutes in survival they are the better weapons that not run even out of ammo and do not come with super massive spread, 1 ammo restore every 120s requirement and very big damage falloff if you are not right on top of your target(after considering the fact that you have to fix the status chance with a riven to not make it look as bad as the gun is shown in all the comedy simicarium corrosive blast videos) or a never ending reload animation on the strun wraith(with 2 reload speed mods on it already for Christ sake).

The only reason because the Boar Prime is my most used weapon in the game is because I really really like it and with Ember you can use it for pretty much anything but high level corpus/infested missions, since the low damage and range are no issue on Ember.

Overall the Acolyte crit mods where a mistake, just as the power creep with so many damage weapons over the years so we just reached a point where you do not need status weapons for kind of all what 99% of the people play, since they will not overcome damage weapons or plain damage modding in scaling. Heck DE litterally thrown it on guns like the Tigris prime or akstilleto prime as gimmick, while they are already totally viable as dps weapons or released stuff like the staticor that is not only better then any other status weapon in the game but also got no long reload, a massive magazine, being super ammo efficient, no spread, good damage and only a minor issue of travel time on the projectiles. 

There is no real use for giving status above 100% a new mechanic, because the weapons that are already can be modded for this are reasonable useful and the core problem is mostly that damage weapons scale to good to give most status weapons a useful niche outside of insane high levels and even there it is hardly much reason to use them there since you would use 4 CP or damage buffing abilities(sonar, bullet attractor, accelerant, roar etc.) to archive high level scaling with your damage modded weapons or just do your damage with warframe abilities.

[Buff tiberon or do something with it]

@KazeUindu

Well it is designed to be more ammo efficient, precise and with more base damage. The Burston prime does scale better, but it takes high levels and a status build to really see it pulling ahead. The Tiberon on the other hand is a super solid star map weapon and did void stuff sufficient as well(till 40 minutes in survival). It was the first weapon I did forma and put a catalyst on after looking at a few options on the wiki when I started the game, since it did not need dual status mods(what were only available from trade chat from people that played the events, no spy rewards or baro back then) did better per bullet damage then even the Boltor prime and was pin point accurate, allowing for nice head shot bonus damage. Only real downside of it was that it did drop like a rock after 40 minutes against armor, then again a lot of weapons did back then.

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

Well you can play Banshee perfectly fine without SQ, same as Ember without WoF. Then again SQ does fill a need at high levels(perfect AOE CC) at expense of having any real game play with the frame what is in many ways worse then WoF on Ember.

I do not think that there is a "hardcore" Ember player base, since you can do what people do with Ember at low levels just as good or in some cases better with other frames, it is just something what is currently suggested online as the "best way to do it", same as it was called bad for a long time where seeing another Ember was fairly rare, even if the frame could do more or less the same thing as it can now at lower levels. It is just the current meta thing, it will go away like all metas do and I would prefer it to go away by solving some issues(less low level hands free killing power and a bit more scalability) instead of just being replaced by the next best thing and then not looked at it again for the next 1-2 years.

["Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger]

How would that solve the issue that many people do not like the AOE spam of Ember or other frames in nearly every low level mission and people complaining about bad scaling of the frame since years while you could replace the word Ember in pretty much any of that posts with World on Fire, because this is what people complain about?

I play ember every time I log in, with the exception of some sorti conditions that would make it pointless(mostly elemental damage resistance or bow/sniper only vs corpus where your CC is kind of useless by the nullifier spam and you do not have a weapon to bring down that bubbles quick) or farming focus on another frame with a different lens. I can get behind a WoF change, simply because it performs a bit to strong at low levels with pure passive game play(if you want to press a few buttons, including the left on your mouse button there are better options) and because people will kind of reduce Ember to WoF anyway(same as Rino with Iron Skin what is shame because all of his other abilities are amazing for what they do) so why not give that people what they ask for, a bit better scaling with WoF.