Djego27
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Posts posted by Djego27
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I use killing blow on my glaive prime, since I mostly use it with Ember where it directly scales up fire damage if you use it only channeled anyway(for life strike) and you do not need crit or the shadow dept mods on it.
Other than that, the mechanic is useful for solo at high levels without invisibility, frame based massive damage bonuses or insta kill weapons like daggers. While it is to expensive for what it does without rage on the frame that takes a lot of damage, channelling finishers and certain highly multiplied hits in your combo gives a decent extra damage output. The mods however are in general not that good given that melee weapons with the shadow dept mods got far to many mandatory mods and even before that there where far to niche and most of the time only useful because you did not want to add another element(like on Ember or when you aimed at maximizing slash and corrosive procs for example).
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It is not really about pressing 4 and going afk, it is about actually just going afk while doing nothing, knowing that other players can not do anything about it, you still get all the rewards with a macro or just pressing a button from time to time and exploiting the weak stance towards it by DE. It is not really about the WoF, press 4 and run to the exit or run to the pod and press 4 game play. While I do not like that, because it is fairly passive and does not do a good job to make warframe a engaging co op game that got the most impressive movement and options how to engage(in most shooters you can just run and shoot, that is about it) and fairly good gun play for a non competitive shooter, it is in the game and a fair choice for people to use(like a lot of other weird stuff).
The number is what I kind of see online in the game in public matches, given that I can count the people on one hand that actively defend Ember as a fairly high DPS frame(justified to some degree but also often just fuelled by bias, rating Ember higher by personal preference instead of real power, I play Ember most of the time solo but I have no issues to switch to something that is really needed or useful in specific missions) on the forum compared to the amount of people that claim bad scaling(every single thread, every single you tube video, every single public display of the frame by random players in public matches). In my opinion the problem is mostly that Ember for most players is just WoF and every complain about Ember does not scale comes down to WoF does not scale as damage ability, while it actually is much much stronger as a accelerant weapon damage fuelled frame, while lacking a bigger amount of weapons that work(the reason why I suggest a base status chance buff on accelerant, what is unique and brings Ember back to what it used to be, a frame that can just add all kind of status effect to it's main source of dps, while losing like no dps with status weapons or status modding because you only scale with the fire damage on the weapon).
If a frame is called out for bad scaling overall(while that is actually not true) because of how a ability transforms from map clear to pure CC(what a lot of abilities on frames do, while WoF is actually significant stronger then things most other frames have when it comes to scaling, since you can combine it with accelerant and it scales twice as good with power strength) it could need some work. Just take Equinox, between the WoF rework and it's release it was actually doing the WoF thing Ember is currently doing better and was a very common sight because of the higher range and armor ignore by slash procs. However the funny thing is that this people did not even scratch the surface of it's power, while this is similar to Ember as well if you do not use status or crit/head shots to give your fire damage scaling, Equinox can scale a lot less limited by weapons(every weapon will do) and can be the best dps frame in endless mission with a 2. equinox what is way better scaling than Ember even with all the tricks and all the special weapons can hope to archive currently. You can not call out Equinox for bad scaling(people would laugh at you) you can't call it out of weapon incompatibility(status, damage, crit everything works) and you can not call it out for the lack of utility(because it got a metric ton of it).
Edit: The issue is mostly that Ember can be fairly good, but mostly it is not, because the real power is not based around your abilities like it is with any other frame but based around specific weapons and a kind of unconventional play style(not as much as much as solo melee only 1h void survival without life strike, without armor and without HP mods with mag before the rework, but fairly close by simply removing all normal restricions).
All things considered Ember could really need something to push people more into actually using accelerant while lessening the issue that it will be even perfectly modded on the frame mostly pointless if you do not use the few weapons in the game that work really well with it.
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2 hours ago, zzzNitro said:
Thing is, it took me 9 Formas to have viable endgame Ember, and she has received at least 2 "patches" in the last 2 years, so no, your suggestion does not make her more interesting, and even if it is more powerful it still trashes the standar and hardcore Ember player.
As a final thought I'll repeat this: The problem people have with Ember occurs on public matchmaking, nowhere else. That's the root of the problem.
It was actually more, while the accelerant fix is older than that(and was the most problematic one by far, given that you had to play a frame that is extreme reliant on CC with a accelerant that did not re stun targets that where still under the effect what made duration your worst enemy in the game at high levels) if my memory serves me right it started with the armor buff, speed buff, cast time on WoF buff and fire blast eximus wave. Then came the double base duration of accelerant(what was a god send given that you did run mostly negative duration back then) then the cast time speed buff on accelerant that made the WoF animation quick but odd looking, then the shield buff on the prime and endless WoF what also provided being immune to energy drain, then the nerf that you are like now always out of energy thx to stackable energy leech auras and eximus re spawning just as quick as you can kill them(aura stacking is horrible, it was horrible with the healers back in the days that could make each other nearly not kill able and it is still horrible, remove aura stacking and remove the ability to get aura protection on eximus units, you implemented it yourself before and it works bug free and with a positive effect on the endgame) and recently the flash accelerant buff.
I do not think public matchmaking is a issue in a co op game(afk leeching mostly done by high MR players, that know exactly that playing the mission yourself if a waste of time and there is nothing the other players can do against it, however is). If you take aside low level WoF nuking(what probably is the only thing 95% of the people that play the frame do) it is a fairly decently balanced frame that does all right at high levels in a very poorly balanced game(where everything one shots you, where animation lock or lag can make it rng at it's best and everything becomes massive bullet sponges at high levels). That used to have aim botting hit scan weapons against solo players or hosts(you missed a ton of fun where everything on the hole map did actually hit you non stop in grenier missions as long as it got line of sight and it was actually fixed halve a year after the fix that should deal with it, what it did not, with the spawning changes). Absurd enemy damage scaling is also bad and just as bad as giving players absurd frame powers to make that work in some wired way only DE could come up with(lets scale everything exponential and make the game the boring stand around and press a button at high levels or the invisibility, god mode or cheat death mechanic cheese because the damage is no where in line with the HP the players actually have). Future more Ember is more then other frames victim to DEs way of balancing guns, what is sometimes done actually good(like prisma grakata vs soma prime vs braton prime at high levels, or brakk vs detron, at least in the 2. try with the mara version). This is mostly because you do not need a gun that is broken on every single frame, you need a gun that can be modded in a specific way and is effective with that modding even if it is considered not that good(like the mara detron or boar prime that you never see, but the mara detron is rediculus good because it can be modded radiation\viral\fire that at least on Ember kills every faction till L100 with ease or the boar prime, if you got a riven to make it work on Ember you will forget that something like armor scaling is even in the game). Or you just throw all that out of the window and release stuff like the staticor that is the Tonkor\Synoid Simulor of status weapons(what is actually worse then dps weapons, because most status weapons got bad usability and utility and tons of drawbacks to them to justify her for most weapons not even existing better scalability, thx to massive crit and aoe dps power creep we seen during the last 2 years).
I did low level WoF framing with Ember when the frame was considered to be very bad at it(because pressing 4 3 hole time per minute and actually point your gun at stuff that should die quick is so much work) and I did 1h solo survival runs in the old void without WoF(since it was most of the time a death trap with the casting animation and more expensive/less reliable then just spamming accelerant). I do not see a big problem in reworking it as long as the CC still works as it does now, even if I would actually like to see something that actually helps a bit with the scaling(like having a another 60k dot damage on a target that you just hit for 140k with rakta cernos crit) because you really need that damage sometimes.
This is the April fool 1h infested survival done solo, I really wish they handed out a primed ammo drum or a separate mod(can be as useless as ammo drum) just for the collectors value.
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17 hours ago, Rolunde said:
Hmmm... that's a good point since I highly doubt DE would reverse something like that, it'd almost be like saying they made a mistake and we know DE don't make mistakes, eh?! ;-)
A lot of people wanted it because pressing that 4 all the time at least at lower levels hardly did make much sense and the long cast animation + very short runtime(7s in my case) made it like Russian roulette if you get one hit killed during the cast animation at high levels to a point where I actually hardly used it at all there.
12 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:I would also agree and say that WoF should have gone 'the other way' when it was changed.
Prior, it was like Renewal: it drained energy over time and had a duration limit.
The 'other way' WoF could have gone is duration-only. Example: For 100 energy it might last 10 seconds unmodded. Maybe allow stack casting to create multiple instances running at the same time!
For one, this at least raises the "maintenance threshold" -- instead of having just 1 energy and still get to keep WoF alive, you need to save up energy to feed it and keep it running.
It was actually duration only before the change. What did mean you had to use a high duration and 175% efficiency build with energy siphon at lower levels(worked pretty much like it does now with a bit less range and power strength) while the ability was actually much much worse at high levels then it is now where it works fine as a CC tool without locking you very often in a cast animation what was quite lethal in itself before they added a cast speed buff to accelerant about halve a year before WoF changed to a toggle.
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I would not like the LoS change for 2 reasons.
1. While LoS sounds like not taking away much, by the way LoS works in warframe makes it not that great. Gpull became literally pointless with the LoS change, compared to pulling stuff from a direction without LoS even in normal use. Even yesterday I was just scratching my head in a infested defence since the AOE explosion of Acid shells apparently also uses the LoS of the target, what means if you kill a charger at one side of the pod the 2 of this side will also die by it, while the charger on the other side of the pod, literally next to it behind a 0.5m wall will take no damage at all.
2. I would made it a fair bit inferior for it's main purpose of CC at high levels, since you can CC targets you look at easily with fire ball or your weapon, while WoF helps to not get shot in the back that often.
I for myself would just reduce the damage of WoF to 50(or whatever is appropriate to make it work at low levels similar as high levels primary as CC tool) and just make fire procs while WoF is active scalable. So you get the normal CC form WoF as it is now and have to shoot stuff with fire modded weapons for actual damage(same as it is now at higher levels with the frame). In return your fire procs just scale with fire damage you put into them, what give fire on it's own better scalability and is in line with how you deal(actually quite high) damage at higher levels.
While I like the idea of that boss like fire wave, it is probably better to add this with a augment like on Frost where Ice Wave Impedance significantly changes the ability from a bit of damage and CC to being incredible powerful CC, especially in combination with Nova(both slows stack).
I would not add raw fire damage to the weapons, since I think it is one of the things that make Ember interesting that modding and weapon choice is vastly different then on other frames, I would however like a buff to base status chance of weapons while accelerate is up so more weapons would be useful on the frame.
Standing in the fire blast ring never was a good idea outside of revives(where it can provide the little bit time you need by the knock back and fire proc at the edge). In my opinion the hole ring should burn and it should work more as a area denial tool that you can put around a pod to slow down chargers while killing ancients that are stuck around a corner or putting it behind you in front of a door, so enemies from this direction are significantly slowed down and have less chances to shoot you in the back while you deal with other stuff.
As for the passive, I do not think it adds a lot to the frame, then again most passives don't do that. I for myself would rather see a effect scale with how much targets you could put a fire proc on around you since this would give status weapons more meaning on the frame again, but then again this is just my opinion.
2 hours ago, DeadScream said:This thread is about balancing Ember so she becomes less AFK-destroy-everything-and-never-let-any-teammate-kill-anything in lower levels, and more destructive on higher levels without needing an augment to be viable.
And here again, I honnestly think Ember is viable in high levels. I just think she could be balanced better and have some strong features to make her less boring to play.
Ember is quite viable at high levels, the issue is mostly that the frame is to gear depended compared to other frames(for specific weapons, mods, rivens to make some status weapons workable and arcanes to add extra punch and survivability) because while it scales better then other frames with gear the starting point is a lot less ridiculous so it takes far more effort to put into it. It also produces far less broken result then for example Mirage with AOE weapons or Saryn with AOE gas or stuff like scalable enemy HP damage with acid shells(what is good in my opinion), because 45% damage of the target HP on death is quite questionable on a frame that can keep up a permanent 50% HP reduction on stuff, combine it with nova and it just becomes insane to a point where it makes the old mag look like a joke(I do remember a mag that outdid mesa in T4D for dps and dominated high level corpus excavations while being the star in corpus L100 corpus sorti, because SP simply did scale, no matter if the target got 100 or 1.000.000 shield, it did exactly the same).
I for myself think people that use fire quake and talk about dps are fairly funny outside of actually having them in my Sorti, then I hate them with passion, not because they do low damage but because I can do no reasonable head shot damage with them around as Ember.
This is a extra armor L100 sorti mobile defence on Uranus, head shot + fire + crit accelerant spamming Ember vs fire quake Ember, while being handicapped by that mod on top of it.
There is no big trick to hit hard with Ember, just bring energy restores, a weapon that scales exceptional well with crit/head shots or status in combination with fire damage and stack power strength(arcane and primed mods for extra damage as much as you can).
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I would rather see buff on the normal bronko prime in damage to be closer to the brakk. The the akbronko prime does the dual version fairly well, because it is not a plain upgrade, the focus is different with more status and spread compared to the single weapon version. It does not need more damage, the scaling comes from status at high levels and they do work fine at low levels if you put reload speed and extra magazine capacity on them(even with both they are less fluid than other weapons in the class). The last thing you want to have on them is a quicker fire rate(even currently you only can max it out with the mouse wheel spin) and a even longer reload, given that you see the reload animation more then anything else already, what is quite different to my 11 rounds with 1s reload mara detron.
Edit: Just take Brakk vs Detron, nearly everybody agreed that the Brakk is better by the 50% high damage. People still claim this with the mara, however I use it more then any other secondary(even if it got absolutely wrecked stat wise by the staticor) because it is overall a more then just solid secondary weapon and before the staticor was the pinnacle in it's niche as radiation base damage weapon that actually is not a gimmick like the nukor and if you screw a bit with damage type scaling with frames like ember it can be produce incredible performance(like soloing 1500 tier 3 sorti excavation vs infested with a radiation base damage gun), far above of what people consider to be the best secondary weapons in the game.
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19 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:
Rivens have 2 or 3 positive stats, and 0 or 1 negative stats.
Any combination of those is possible, you can have 3 positive and no negative, or 2 positive and 1 negative.
It is widely believed that having a negative stat increases the value of any positive stats on the riven.
Thx for the clarification. In never seen 3 positive modifiers with no negative stat or 2 positive with a negative stat so I assumed it would work that way, but then again I am limited to just like 30 ish rerolls in total so far.
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5 hours ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:
We could use one weapon to reduce armor and another to kill, or one to deal with crouds and another to kill single targets. In reality that is not possible with the weapon swap times we have right now.
Akbronco Prime is a weapon that I think it is interesting to invest in Rivens because it has a lot of downsides and have the benefit of having the 100% status before multishot. the outcome may be interesting.
It is actually not that far stretched that you had to switch weapons at high levels for various status effects back in the day. I mostly used my akbronko prime that way at high levels to remove armor for high level heavy gunenrs / bombards when they started to get more resistant against normal damage weapons(given that it can not do corrosive/fire, the massive reload issues and the lack of scalability with Ember made it never suitable as a main weapon for me) as well as to do a quick radiation/viral shower on healers in higher level infested survivals before they prevented healer auras to affect other healers that was pretty much necessary, but something you do not want on your main weapon because of how bad radiation/viral is against the faction for damage outside of weapons like the mara detron that can bend this rule to some degree on Ember or Chroma.
From my experience with my boar riven, the stats you need to fix it are not really that interesting, given the effects are actually not new in case of the boar prime, it just rolls the weapon back to what it was before the shotgun changes(with my current riven not even really that to full extend). Overall I am like MirageKnight not a big fan of the riven system, especially if you need riven mods to make niche weapons useful in her niche compared to other weapons that are in general more useful without a riven mod to begin with.
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The status duration is only really useful for toxic and slash procs(stackable dots, that do more damage by the higher duration).
You most likely get more out of the fire rate(since it frees a mod slot and also increases all damage done and proc rate by more hits in the same time as well the spool up time, at the expense of ammo).
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16 hours ago, (PS4)ARIES-WY said:
Ill try reroll it and keep the original stats , got a negative flight speed , does it effect kohm much ?? Btw I don't understand people asked to buy god roll riven MENTIONED must have negative stats.
Rivens roll as 2 beneficial stats or 3 with a downside, so the most powerful rolls always have a downside, however it depends on the gun how much impact the downside has on a weapon, like zoom has no impact on shotguns in general(maybe with the exception of the vaykor hek, since it reduces spread and the gun benefits a lot from aimed head shots with the crit build) and even far less on a close up personal spread heavy one like the Boar.
As for the negative flight speed, it should not affect hit scan weapons(like the kohm is currently, mostly because of lag produced the old non hit scan projectiles and her bouncing) but I did read several reports that it does affect damage falloff range on shotguns, however I could not test this myself yet since I lack a riven for that.
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Well I believe that you will have a issue to rebalance a game on relative feedback. There is nothing wrong with suggesting something, instead of demanding change, actually I think forums are a much more useful baseline for discussions that might or might not have a value or get impended by the devs. However programming and game balance has a very serious signal to noise issue. This is not exclusive to video games, it is a massive issue at any point in software production or maintenance where you have a for the most part absolutely no precise requests to implement by people that have to break it down to numbers and mechanics in a absolute precise way. It is a bit like having a picture in your mind about a city skyline and telling a artist to draw a city skyline, even if you can communicate every detail in your vision, can explain the how the a colour should look like to the person that draws it and deliver a good impression what kind of "feeling" your picture should express(what is difficult, even for people that know how colours work on a emotional level, like marketing/commercial artist background) the chance that somebody else is able to paint your exact vision is close to zero. It is very different and much harder then a customer coming to me and asking for a boiler and heating system for his 4 apartment house, not because it is less complex but because I literally need next to no data from the customer and can actually create something that peaty much exactly match his expectations by data that was collected over the years and is available to me on that common request and can design a good solution from a engineering point of view as well as providing the customer with the thing he wants, even with him being unable to actually explain what he wants.
1. Most abilities got 2 components, one is damage, what will not scale for most abilities(what is ok), the other is CC or other benefits(like movement with slash dash or rino charge etc.) what actually is not affected by levels. If it is just damage the ability is bad(like shuriken on Ash, where the augment actually adds scalability by the armor removal) and should change, otherwise it is fine.
2. Weapons, well the main issues is DE has to sell weapons. This did lead to weapons being progressively more powerful and the added system of mastery rank restrictions hardly matters. However I still think DE actually missing out in the long run by her weapon balance because most of the weapons in the game are not worth keeping or investing into it. Take the tiberon, that is very old and was my first weapon I spend a catalyst and forma on. Do you have 6 forma on the weapon? Did you use it in the last year? I know I have 6 forma on it and I have not used it in a long time, despite of actually being a good weapon for the star chart that only falls off after 40 minutes in void survival by the total lack of crit and status.
3. I like the therm as well since endgame is not a specific content in Warframe(like it is in other game with raids) and every player can kind of define it on his own. Going ham on a L138 eximus gunner with my good old scindo prime and Ember in a melee run 78 minutes into T3S is for me endgame, because it is difficult, while LifeofRio puts that to 180+ minutes with modern weapons makes it look very trivial it actually is not. The challenge in player skill is actually not that different, we both die if we make a single mistake(like missing a smoke screen cast or not hitting accelerant if stuff comes out of CC in front of you), however the level is.
4. Well one time rewards would be cool for people doing it once for them. I for myself would like a stackable chance to get rare relics or other stuff in the rotations. While I am not a die hard endurance runner, staying 12 waves in solo T4 interception or 60+ minuets in survival had the benefit of getting more loot out of your key and having more rolls on C rotation loot tables what where the major pain, where you even after 36 rolls(12h or survival) did not get the part you wanted.
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Raksa Kubrow at high level for solo because of the CC(that scales very well and is far more powerful then on any other companion in the hole game) and non stop shield restore(that is miles better then the sentinel version because it has close to no cool down and overrides the shield recharge cool down when it kicks in so you literally got a permanent shield restore time of 1-2s what helps given that every single hit will fully drain your shield) >>> Kavats >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other Kubrows
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16 minutes ago, (PS4)ARIES-WY said:
Ty for details . Just rolled the riven , got multishot, fire rate and ammo maximum , is that good ?? Do I still need to reroll for statue chance?
Well multi shot and fire rate is very good since you need a fire rate mod anyway and the ammo maximum helps with ammo management but is not really that necessary, given the gun relays highly on massive pick ups by mutation and other means then working against pool that it eventually depletes over time.
I would keep it and still try to reroll it for status in the long run, since it is the highest scaling riven on it, but it depends on how much you play very high levels against armor. The value of that is mostly depended on your own needs.
I for example got a electric + status for my boar prime(re rolled it 20 times since and even got 200%+ damage, multi shot and 113% ice damage with minus zoom, what is unfortunately useless as status weapon that I mostly use on Ember because would be kind of a god like roll on a dps weapon) and honestly I most likely will get a 2. one and experiment with that. While the mod limits the maximum damage you can do after armor depletion to a target a lot compared to what the boar prime was capable 1.5 years ago before the rework on a blind rage ember(where 2k more fire damage per shot did mean over 80k more dps against armored targets after the armor was down), the quicker armor strip(since corrosive is the by far highest damage type with the mod) also has it's benefits in raising the corrosive proc rate to archive full armor depletion with less rounds and you very rarely shoot stuff that are HP bricks under her armor(like eximus bombards/heavy gunners far beyond L100). Also the gun is not that great if you have to relay on it's actual damage against infested and corpus, even with a mod that would more then double it's output as straight up dps weapon it would be still worse then my sancti tigris or vaykor Hek with a lot more ammo issues on top of it.
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It would probably be easier if you break up the post and be more specific about:
- what abilities you see a issue with for scaling
- what your general guideline would be for scaling of weapons
- what you looking for in Warframes pseudo endgame
- what and why you feel the need for more rewards for people that play that
For me, my problem is mostly that the scaling(damage scaling that makes anything one shooting us, being bullet sponges or spawn special units like nullifiers or healers faster then you kill them), frame and weapon balance is not really good what basically makes all high level missions more or less us one shooting the npcs with bigger numbers over them or them one shooting us. The hole "the weapons will fall off" thing is not really that meaningful since most weapons will not before you will only be able to progress with ability stacking and total CC or god mode/stealth/cheat death mechanics.
I in general liked to do a lot of 1h solo survival runs with Ember, what is still the point where you do not get one shot by everything and that puts some stress on you with the damage and mechanics. The problem is that it turns into the one shot kill style very quick at what point it just is a question about bypassing the hole mechanic. I think if a mechanic scales so bad that to reasonable play with it, you need to basically bypass it(like armor with 4 CP) or damage with perma map wide CC or casting snow globe every few seconds to protect a defence target that instantly dies the second it got hit by anything it should be changed.
While I would like a more challenging and rewarding high level balance, it will most likely not really come into the game any time soon, given the people that like it are only a very small minority and it would require very big reworks. Also the weapon and mod power creep is a big issue, to a point where nearly all modern weapons blow with no real effort through all content the 98% of the player base will realistic play. This is very different to like the game was a few years ago, where you had to think a lot about what primary, secondary and melee you use and how to mod them to work in combination with each other good at high levels(like akbronko prime/Tysis for armor removal or ammo efficient high damage weapon like Lex prime\marlok), ammo efficient high damage bow as primary or status shotgun for extra CC? high damage melee for effective life strike through armor reduction, utility melee for movement or a throwing one for ranged life steal(glaive prime is my most used melee for non melee runs for this reason)?. When DE introduced the raid it turned into a massive cheese fest in no time, same with sorti and events. I never did 5h surivival runs, simply because it is exactly the same boring stuff as farming runs back in the day with 4 CP, gmag and speed nova, shooting for 60-90 minutes into a vortex at a dead end room in survival for prime parts and resources and a lot less entertaining compared to doing solo melee runs for over a hour with Ember or Saryn without using cheese like shadow step.
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5 hours ago, (PS4)ARIES-WY said:
Wow tysm , seems it's hard for roll for exactly on top . But ty I'll try for damage and multishot . Btw do u think kohm really weaker than other shotguns??
The issue with the kohm is ammo, even with primed shotgun ammo mutation you still want to add carrier or shotgun scavager for longer runs. I would also take the simicarium vids with a fair grain of salt, given using nearly 200 shotgun rounds for 3 targets should speak volumes how feasible builds like this are for doing actual 1h+ survivals or other stuff.
In general the Kohm is a very solid shotgun and used to be even the top tier shotgun before they renerfed the ammo economy again(when it first came it was so bad that you could not even do a exterminate without running out of ammo, then it got fixed to values where it worked very good with normal ammo mutation or non for non endless missions and then nerfed again). Tigris and Hek are for the most part more practical because of the ammo use, while the damage of the kohm is not really worse. Also the Tigris and Hek work great against all factions, while the kohm is kind of limited to anti armor after putting in the forma, similar to my boar prime what rips through infinite armor targets like they would be made out of paper(after finaly being able to fix it 1.5 years since the shotgun changes with a riven) but the poor ammo economy make it very impractical against corpus and infested in endless missions.
What a good riven for you is depends mostly on what you want to do with the gun. If you want to use it as a status shotgun multishot and 120% status(seams to be rare, the best roll I have is 116% on my boar prime) are the best if you want to utilize it as status shotgun. I for myself mostly use it on Necros in a status heavy fire/slash build for CC and extra loot during solo farming, the reason I use the kohm for that is that you do not have to reload that often what was a problem on the frame before the rework since you could not use desecrate during reloads and made otherwise awesome slash shotguns like the Tigris not really good on the frame because you nearly reload ever 1-2 seconds.
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It was not even popular back in the days, I used mine a lot and I never seen other people use them, till I switched to the mara detron when it first came out. However they are done better balance wise then most prime weapons that came later:
The good:
The do not really make other weapons obsolete, but are a farmable alternative to the detron and brakk(what was a pain to get before the raid) and dojo weapons.
They are a good upgrade over the normal ones that are unfortunately made for a different game where a gun with a lot of spread, next to no magazine and long reaload was feasible.
The dps version, what is the single one does more damage per shot and got less status, as a trade-off what is good.
The bad:
30% status shotguns are meh with corrosive/blast and the gun would be miles better if it would have 40% has base.
The reload to mag size feels bad at high levels, literally letting you watch the reload animation non stop what is kind of tiresome for longer sessions.
Given how easy the mara detron and brakk can be farmed today, the single bronko prime should probably also get a bit of a buff to compeete with the top end shotgun pistols.
I would like to see 40% base status, 8 rounds magazine and 1.6s reload(exactly the ammo capacity and reload speed you get with mods if you do not need 100% status and it works far better with them then the base values and they are just as much fun as the brakk or detron with that). Innate punch through would be also nice, given that you kind of need seeker for it and it always feels like it is one slot short compared to other options(mostly because the other shotgun pistols have outstanding relaod/mag size values out of the box, while the akbronko prime got fairly bad ones).
Edit: It is not really a damage issue or finding a niche for the akbronko prime, it is just that it does not really perform that well in that niche by the issues with reload and magazine since and base status chance. With that fixed it would be a 100% status secondary shotgun, what is good enught as a weapon niche.
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12 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:
Not in its current state. It use to be on a timer, had less targets per explosion(which means less damage), less frequent explosions, and was a disaster of an ultimate compared to others. I remember complaining about WoF a long time ago.
You could pretty much use it as it is used now, you just did require more energy(energy restores and the right kubrow for the most part) and a specific build around that if you did AOE nuke farming(I farmed a lot of solo defence, excavation and interception with it long before the changes) and another build if you actually wanted to do damage with negative duration accelerant builds, while you now can have both more or less in the same build, since negative power duration no longer sky rockets WoF costs to a point where you hardly used it in normal builds.
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Why do you think Ember is underwhelming? It is the most CC heavy dps frame in the game, what is good, because most dps frames die in a single hit at high levels and damage reduction provides only finite scaling, while CC does not.
Some might say other frames do the same thing better but most of the time people overlook that it is not the same thing. Equinox does scale better into endless missions, but CC of his 4 is far less useful solo and you need a pure damage based weapon to feed your 4 while you need mostly a status secondary to stay alive what is a bit cumbersome. Rino got iron skin, but that will be useless at high levels just as Embers normal HP. Roar is a great buff, but Ember got something similar as team damage buff in case of people using fire based weapons, or a bit more universal with flash accelerant. Stomp is god like CC, however Ember can do pretty much the same non stop with WoF, accelerant spam and various status weapons. Saryn is incredible for map wide damage and scaling support by viral uptime, however soloing high level missions with the frame is a pain by the lack of effecicent on demand CC(like I did say, spore should CC the target briefly) as well as single target damage(eximus toxic ancients are a pain to kill at high levels, since they are incredible resistant to your normal way of doing damage and require a different modded weapon to deal with them, similar as fire eximus on Ember, what are still more manageable by the CC).
Why would you struggle against grenier?
During the last 2 years DE just pushed out insane damage buffs across the board with frame rewords, primed mods, event mods and newer weapons. I did not use status weapons for most extra armor sortis in the last year, given that you can punch through that with Ember with plain fire dps at fairly reasonable speed, what would be a utterly impossible task to accomplish 2 years ago.
Why would you need a very long lasting accelerant stun, if your weapon(if we talk about high levels) will provide that in form of fire procs(on every single shot, on everything you hit, 100% guaranteed)?
Why would you need finishers, given that you can acquire the ability to bypass armor at any level with ranged weapons? Same as you can acquire the ability to bypass aura protection with weapons like the Mara detron while still doing insane damage, different to all other frames but chroma in the hole game.
Ember is one of the most compatible and incompatible damage frames for status weapons. While only a few can be used for scaling, status weapons and status modding cost you next to no damage, different to all the other frames, since you mainly scale on fire damage. Future more you can put actually ineffective elemental combos against a faction on weapons that you just need for the proc, what would be a massive dps loss on other frames. Also the biggest disadvantage of weapons with great CC, armor or aura removal does not apply to you what is in general bad damage. Instead you can actually use weapons that provide great CC full time and even fix actually low raw damage weapons like a status modded boar prime to work literally as good as top end weapons on other frames for damage. While this is as we speak not that big of a deal any more with DE handing out insane damage to everybody, to a point where status weapons are a thing of the past or literally the same level of stupid(staticor or more recently akstilleto prime, what is just a massive slap in the face for any status rifle in the game).
2 years ago Ember was considered a terrible dps frame at high levels, just as it is today. I however play it since years because it is fairly good at what it does and mostly just underrated.
Fire is one of the most powerful damage types vs unarmored targets, exactly the thing you shoot in high level armored missions with Ember and a proper status weapon or in a 4 CP team.
Fire ball works like a lot of other abilities, it does the same thing, at the same price and kind of in the same way.
Accelerant is good, beside making Ember incredible limited with weapon and modding choices.
Fire Blast, as pointed out needs a rework to work as a proper area denial tool.
WoF is all right as CC tool at high levels, it could use some changes from my pov, however most people that use Ember only at low levels do not agree with me on that.
Edit: Edited to clarify a bit.
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10 hours ago, (PS4)Chaotic_Mayhem30 said:
Well a nice logical response. I fully understand Ember being primarily a CC frame, but with warframes that have been around as long as ember, she just doesn't fit anymore with groups or endgame. I think it has to do with heat damage but it's also her abilities how they don't do very much other than knock down enemies. There are already other warframes for CC that do more than that.
Ember is actually not primary a CC frame, it is just a added benefit that this is your natural way of defence given you squishiness(actually I do melee runs without WoF at all, since you can not really mod around it in a melee build). WoF does a fire proc what is better then the knock-down, since it also provides CC, allows head shots and does some damage(negotiable at high levels) what is mostly dependent on your power strength. However the way Ember does CC is very convenient to use for solo defence, interception and excavation, what makes it kind of my favourite for all that stuff(including high levels and sortis).
10 hours ago, (PS4)Chaotic_Mayhem30 said:Frost for example has all four great abilities for damage and cc and augments that are amazing. Ember is only considered op in low levels and everyone knows it and no one cares for her in endgame. WoF is only good with her augment to knock down enemies and that's it, accelarant is good for increasing fire damage but fire doesn't do a lot of damage even with viral and corrosive. Also the stun has a different duration on enemies so you can't rely on it so much. Her third could be great but for an ability that is placed down that doesn't do what it should, it's a shame the energy has to be wasted. Her first is good I know for a quick fire attack, but compared to other element warframes such as Frost, volt, and sayrn, fireball just isn't good in terms of use.
Frost is a bit overdone, my guess would be to compensate for being mostly just played for defending a target by giving it a lot use outside of it. WoF does around 4k on hit and another 14k damage in form of a dot, for around 18k damage in total on a 200% power strength Ember in combination with accelerant. However you hit more then one target and have constantly dots up and ticking what results in about 20-60k extra dps depending on power strength and how many stuff you can hit with it. It is in itself one of the more powerful AOE damage abilities however damage does not scale and fire does scale as you pointed out not that well. At 200% power strength WoF got a 70% chance on a fire proc + fire procs from your weapons + accelerate spam in most situations allow full CC, similar as with fire quake. However the difference is that you can do a ton more damage with head shots and have more room for power strength what you need for weapon based damage scaling. WoF is mostly good for CC at high levels, does not matter if you use fire quake or not. However that is not a big deal breaker, given that WoF is only a negotiable amount of what we can actually put out in therms of fire damage as Ember.
This is where our weapons come into play. Take the mara detron, what most people will not consider as a very powerful weapon and even more so useless vs Infested. However since we play Ember our priorities are different, what makes a soso radiation base damage weapon one of our best weapons in the hole game vs Infested(till DE overdid it totally with the staticor, that should be nerfed, given how much better it is then the mara detron).
How does this work? We actually status mod the mara detron(what actually works on the mara detron to some degree as only non status shotgun in the game because of the high fire rate and being a elemental weapon) and go for radiation, viral and fire. Now we have 50%+ status chance, 2k fire damage, 1k viral and 1k radiation(both scale horrible vs Infested). Against light infested this will be 3k(50% damage bonus to fire) + a 500% from our accelerant what makes it 15k per single shot, multiplied by like 5 rounds per second to 75k pure fire dps(plus another 10k viral and radiation, does not really matter). Against fossile Infested the viral proc comes into play, what brings us to around 100k dps(they do not share the 50% weakness to fire), what is plenty to solo L100. While there are a lot of weapons that could do more fire damage, they will not proc radiation at the same time, what removes healer and disruptor auras, what is the main reason most people struggle at high levels(since 50k damage out of a Tigris prime are reduced to 5k with a healer around the corner) and also allows us to still do full damage with our WoF, instead having the damage mitigated by 90% from the disruptor aura and also the CC, since the fire procs do not travel all to the ancient healer once he got a radiation proc, they stick with the light infested that try to rush you. This is a old 1500 cryotic tier 3 sorti, secondary only infested excavation, done solo with Ember and the Mara Detron:
A small comparison how hard you actually hit compared to other people in secondary only sortis with your very uncommon gun:
Now take the vaykor hek, fully fire modded it does 7.8k fire damage per shot. If we do a head shot it does 15.6k fire damage per shot(the number is closer to 11k since you will always miss some pellets on headshots), if we add crit around 20k. If we now add accelerant(5x with the 200% strenght build + a bit extra from arcane rage) we look at around 100k fire damage per single shot, what is exactly what we see here and I would call 300k dps plenty for a dps frame:
Embers first does the same thing as frosts or volts 1 at high levels, it CCes the target and can be used while reloading, what is fine and handy(I always miss a short stun on spore when I play Saryn).
Does it fire scaling work against armor? To a certain point it does, however you will nearly always be better with a corrosive status weapon in the long run(status rifles, status shotguns, sonicor etc.). This is how pure fire damage stacking looks like in a L100 extra armor mobile defence sorti with a comparison benchmark to a Ember that did not use specific weapons build around accelerant and that is not even being bad, it is just how much of your damage actually comes from your weapon build around accelerant on Ember:
If you go to the extreme, a eximus L105 corrupted bombard got like 45300 x 3 = 135900 HP x 96.55% damage reduction from 8405 armor = 3939130 or round about 4 million effective HP. With a the old boar prime on my old blind rage Ember this was doable surprisingly quick, because the first 4 rounds removed all the armor, while accelerant, fire damage on the gun and the weakness to fire did kill the HP in 4 more rounds. All together, being able to deal with 4M HP targets in under 2s was a very generous performance with Ember, especially back then when the boltor prime(like 28k dps if my memory serves me well) was considered as one of the best weapons in the game at high levels.
So yeah 2m dps whoop whoop Ember prime is just as possible as struggling with L40 armored targets with the same frame(trust me I was there to) because the way fire damage scaling works is everything but obvious and there is hardly another frame in the hole game that is that specific with weapons that work or not(what should be lessened by adding extra base status chance to weapons when accelerant is up). Take the boar prime as example that became 100% useless on Ember 1.5 years ago with the buff that is now thankfully fixable with rivens(what is absurd given 200%+ damage and multi shot mods can be rolled, I had such rolls and are just bad rolls given that it still makes the gun useless on Ember) to archive 100% status with corrosive/fire again without wanting to kill yourself after a 1h mission if you use the nano applicator mod, watching a 8s timer and playing zoomed in for a hour non stop.
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On 5.2.2017 at 2:49 PM, Wolvebrother said:
Having a limited ammopool counterbalances some weapons. Just look at the Kohm.
You really want to point a finger on a gun that manages to run dry with maxed primed shotgun ammo mutation on necros only 45 minutes into ODS solo(there are a metric ton of weapons that do not need ammo mutation to archive that and end up with more ammo at this point)? While I am not in support of adding something more to ammo mutation, at least it should make ammo inefficient guns halve way feasible high levels. Overall if the weapon needs ammo mutation it should justify it by the performance and ammo mutation should be able to give it scaling, what is not always the case, just looking at you twin grakatas, prisma grakata or Kohm.
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On 9.3.2017 at 1:56 PM, (PS4)Chaotic_Mayhem30 said:
Let me know what you guys think about some of these ideas that can replace the current abilities ember has. I know they aren't all that, but i wanted to go a bit simple on this since any ability that has ever been reworked, only had slight changes. I plan on completely redoing Ember soon but this is just me throwing in ideas. i love Ember and will still use her, but i wish her abilities weren't so outdated when tough enemies where level 40's. she needs to be more endgame viable and team synergy.
Your issue is most likely that you assume WoF scales as anything but CC well into high levels, what it does not. Other than that Ember performs fine at high levels.
You can solo pretty ridiculous stuff(kuva flood, sorti, 1h+ in the old void survival even melee only, 60 waves ODD, all kinds of events, the infested salvage without even giving a damn about armor running out because of the super power full life steal with throwing weapons, 2k infested excavation where you can print endo and void relics without having to worry about people leaving or being afk at all) with Ember and it is not only my most used frame but also the one I wish I had when end up playing the last 5 waves of defences and Interceptions solo on levelling frames when everybody leaves.
What most people do not realize is that accelerant also scales with fire damage on your weapons, and if you think that means a fire weapon is viable then you are wrong because it comes down to very specific mods and weapons where you amplify that fire scaling with status(corrosive, viral and radiation procs are you bread and butter at high levels) or head shots and crits. This is why I wish there would be a function to slap people that show up with a fire quake Ember into the face at her end of the screen, since him running the mod literally costs you 300k+ dps because you can not do proper head shots and this hits harder then the hole damage output of the other 3 people around you(a lot harder in most cases).
Ember actually can hit very hard at at high levels, but only with specific weapons(like rakta cernos, vhek, mara detron, staticor) where the main focus is to boost fire damage scaling as good as possible to work well with accelerant(Ember main ability at high levels is accelerant, not WoF).
.Fireball:
- You do not want a knock down, it is horrible for dps
- you do not want punch through, because of the AOE explosion for extra CC
- it is a simply ability that you use while reloading or to deal with flying stuff melee only, it does CC(even if it should do that in the AOE as well, since there is hardly a reason to use it over accelerant outside of using it while reloading)
Accelerant:
- that would be crazy OP, like the old radial blind levels of OP
- let me assume you do not use Ember with a boar prime, trust me it is OP, like 95% damage resist mesas going down and you just revive them in front of 20 L80 Eximus units in a sorti that you shot twice with your boar prime(because it actually inflicts a fire proc each shot guaranteed, with another 18 other status procs) without taking a scratch
- knock downs are terrible for your dps
- bring a status weapon to deal with armor and giving Ember 100k armor at high levels is just as broken as the old overheat
Fire Blast:
- make the hole ring burn and inflict a fire proc to slow targets down, it is simple, logical, not op and actually useful at all levels
WOF:
- Remove the damage(make it 50 base, could be 1 for all I care) and make the fire proc scalable by all fire damage you put into it, while most people will not like it, it would break people out of the press 4 frame mind set and also help a ton for scaling in content with less optimal weapons
Other than that accelerant should buff the base status chance of Embers weapons by 10%(affected by power strength) to lessen the issues with weapon choice and the ridiculous gear dependency on Ember. Ember is good at high levels(despite the popular opinion) but to get there you need to invest more than in any other frame in the game what is not really justified, given what Ember is a fairly well balanced scaling frame, with a lot of limitations compared to what the frame was before buffs to other frames, reworks of existing frames, syndicate primary weapons, primed mods and rivens. A lot more people complained about Ember back then, but it was considerable stronger at high levels, without even using WoF at all, since it was not worth the energy for another 60k dps, compared what the frame could do with status back then. Then again we talk about times that are gone for good.
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On 9.3.2017 at 11:44 PM, Azamagon said:
While there could need to be some individual balancing on Shotguns (many need some toning DOWN, like the Tigris family), one general thing for shotguns (primary as secondary) could really need a mechanical change:
Status chance
Why can't the displayed stat simply be per pellet, so that going for Status no longer "forces" you to go 100%*? This would help both the StrunW and BoarP a bunch, as would the Sobek with its augment.
* If you didn't know: Status chance for shotguns currently displays "chance for at least 1 pellet proccing", but then if you get 100% status chance (BEFORE any multishot mods are added, very important to note) it will magically turn into "now ALL pellets ALWAYS proc something!"
I am aware of that and it is most likely not magic but simply a bug in the way status is calculated for shotguns. However, since the mechanic actually helps greatly to ballance out the weapon class, giving weapons like the boar(that hit the hole room instead of the head for a 10% of the damage of a vhek) unique purpose and use at higher levels without giving it absurd dps like some of the other shotguns, it is a good thing. I do agree that it should be switched to status per pellet, given that this allows more room for ballancing the shotgun class.
Currently we only have one shotgun in the game that is status viable with the pellet mechanic(the mara detron). This is only possible by the extreme high rof, high amount of secondary ammo drops and super quick reload while being a elemental weapon. Even then it is mostly limited to single proc mechanics like radiation(against auras), viral(for double damage output) or fire(to add CC) with 50%+ status on it.
On 10.3.2017 at 7:04 AM, (PS4)MrNishi said:Not that many people use it:
But my Convectrix needs Prime Shotgun Mutation
It eats through ammo worse than the Kohm
The Convectrix Ammo Economy is not what is truly flawed with Convectrix.
Yes I concur that Shotguns should get another looking into at least the non-popular Shotguns.
(I also think Vaykor Hek should be able to slot Scattered Justice ; just cap implement + 1 Justice/Syndicate Proc so Syndicate mod would only add Mutlishot and not an additional Syndicate Proc)
Ammo use should be looked at as well. I never invested forma into it(different to the Kohm), because the Kohm is beside the ammo issues actually a impressive and fun to use shotgun, while the Conventrix never impressed me, so I did not really give it a serious test in endless content.
I use the vhek since over a year. During the hole time you seen people asking for the vhek to be able to use the augment what makes the normal Hek better and people disagreeing with it, because the vhek performs very good without that. I think that is a good indicator that DE has done a good job for vhek vs hek, in my opinion a better one than for Tigris vs Sancti Tigris.
From my point of view the vhek is a very good shotgun for the following reasons:
- body shot vs body shot it is mostly better then the normal version, by the larger magazine and higher rof, as long as both kill in one hit(what is often the case for most content since after crit the damage is not that different), however with vicious spread the hek is the better room clearer while the vhek is better single target
- while the extreme multi shot on the hek works incredible with vicious spread(where it is a advantage because you hardly need the full damage of a round on a single target), the vhek it is a big mistake since it focuses more on aimed head shots to squeeze out the full potential of it's crit modding
- the vhek can stack crit + head shots + single damage type scaling what no other shotgun can do like it, while this is not used by many it is actually my most used feature on the gun and very strong, it makes it as puncture shotgun the best scaling shotgun vs corpus(just toxic mod it with ammo stock, it blows through nullifiers bubbles and techs at L100+ like no other shotgun in the game), fully puncture modded it blows thrught elemental resist grenier sortis like butter and on Ember it outperforms any other weapon in the hole game for pure fire based dps scaling(100k+ damage single shot with 200% power strength accelerant)
It is a most likely a bit to generous as a side grade to the Hek in my opinion(assuming you utilize crit head shots and single damage type scaling), then again it is not really that strong if you use it like a conventional shotgun and kind of his own different weapon class within the weapon class like status shotguns. My biggest issue with the weapon is that it justifies primed ravage, a mod that is only useful on a single gun in the game similar to the kohm and primed shotgun ammo mutation.
Edit: The vhek is a very good shotgun, even if we would assume the normal hek would not exist and given that even riven mods can hardly outdo the syndicate mod it would just lead to move people from her hek to the vhek. Hek vs vhek comes down to play style and what kind of weapon you prefer, what is good, since it gives both a place to coexist and gives people choice instead of straight upgrades. I prefer my vhek over the normal one and the Tigris models because it performs better the way I mod and play it, while I know there are a lot of people that prefer the normal hek or there Tigris for the same reasons. I think that is a good, because it gives people choices.
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Since I am bored and the Conventrix needs serious help:
Give it 100% status out of the box, per single beam(given that the damage is split, this would mean 200% status I guess). This means 6 status procs per second without mods, 14 with multi shot and much more once you slap fire rate or status mods on it. So it becomes a continues fire status shotgun that you can get from the market(different to the boar prime and strun wraith) and works without event/riven mods(Kohm, Tigris prime). Slash procs are stackable and work very well at high levels, if you go with fire rate + status mods it will perform very good vs armor with corrosive + slash or viral + slash or you can just utilize it with radiation and the massive beam spread to apply radiation to a everything in front of you(quite similar as a radiation modded boar prime will do, what was super useful in the old age of healer aura stacking and still is in eximus sorti to shut down the energy drain and damage reductions).
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On 3.3.2017 at 9:48 PM, -BM-Leonhart said:
Kohm? Haha, lmao, no thanks. I don't want for everyone to start using it all of a sudden and then cause it get an even more massive nerf. It's absolutely exquisite right now. Everyone that used it for more than 15 mins and knows how to mod it will agree with me. I know it's real power, since it's my most used weapon. The fact that it also has maximum Riven disposition is another advantage I would rather keep as it.
P.S. That's exactly like those people that ask for Chroma buffs because they would like the OP Vex Armor to be toggle-able and last forever...
It still makes no sense to use it without primed ammo mutation(as the only gun in the hole game that needs it) and you can still struggle with that, because the ammo use is way out of line even with the boar prime what is the 2. most ammo hungry shotgun in the hole weapon class. I ended up using more then 4 times the normal ammo pool of a shotgun(120 rounds) per single infested defence round on Necros and this is the only frame I use it on(because the high magazine allowed for careless desecrate spam without much reloading, the slash helps with the loot and the extra ammo drops + primed ammo mutation make it usable in endless missions).
On 6.3.2017 at 4:32 PM, (Xbox One)Godlike13 said:Just because the Boar prime (MR2) isn't as strong the VHek (MR12), doesn't mean its not still pretty strong. Its scales to sorties levels. Which not every shotgun that doesn't have Tigris or Hek in its name can say.
It has nothing to do with MR and the old boar prime was a very well balanced and actually well working shotgun before the shotgun changes(both status shotguns where). The reason for this is simply because the gun offered a very good performance under specific conditions while not scaling as ridiculous high as vHek or the Tigris models(Tigris prime in a status build is just stupid) against everything, because short range, big spread, high ammo use and actually not really high dps what makes it inefficient at high levels outside of it's niche. Even in his niche I ended up with using 1 ammo restore ever 120s with it back in the day if you solo void survival beyond the 50 minute mark.
I can only name 3 shotguns that are not really useful for sorti(normal boar and strun as well as the conventrix), all the others are actually usable while still inferior to the top tier. Hek and Tigris should be tuned down in damage(10% ish on the Hek, 20% ish on the Tigris), status should change to status per pellet instead to shot to allow build diversity and better ballance(while my most used gun is the boar prime, where 100% status is more or less the only useful option given it's poor scaling without it, I never put a status mod on my vaykor hek, because status is all or nothing on shotguns what is bad and should change), entry level shotguns should get better usability(quicker reloads with the strun, 360 ammo reserve for the boar) and the conventrix needs a makeover(like slash based status shotgun as a role, instead of giving it as a bonus to the Tigris prime or make it available if you have certain mods for the kohm, what is cool but only works under specific conditions for endless missions to get around the ammo issues).
On 6.3.2017 at 10:29 PM, Haxwell said:Shotguns are so strong already lol.
Status shotguns are not, they are actually inferior to her pre shotgun buff versions, like with 1.5s vs 4s reload for the old 8 round strun wraith or the rof, reload speed and status nerf on the boar prime. I never seen them in shotgun only sortis(last time 2x Tirgis prime, 1 vHek vs my boar prime and that is with a riven to fix it and me just useing it whenever I can, because I spend 1.5 years with my most used primary collecting dust in my inventory, before that I just used a vhek like everybody else in the ideal scenario for the boar prime and the vhek does kill things just as quick without rivens or excessive status builds).
"Nerf" World On Fire by making Ember stronger
in Warframes
Posted
While it is a one handed ability and ember already scales twice as much as other frames by power strength(with accelerant) I do not see how even 4 times the damage could help, since that would still be only 16k fire damage with 200% power strength, while the basic function and what it is normally used for is similar to a lot of other frames.
The problem is more that only the edges(around 1m from the animation towards the centre) produce a heat proc, what does not really stop stuff, given that they just step through it slightly slower in practical game play.