PVP is Fine! it needs no change!

[Hypermega]

As the title says PVP is Fine how it is, its not amazing but better than i would expect, the game however is doing it no favours at all! when i ask other players and friends why they don't queue its because they don't want to get farmed by higher levels. they dont know that gear is rebalanced for fair play PLEASE STATE THIS ON THE CONCLAVE MENU!!! there is no incentive or reward either. why not put conclave alerts where the others are! if people are willing to play a 20 minute boring defence mission for some plastids im sure they might hazard a PLAY ONE MATCH for something similar. 

 

Thats all i have to say. could it be better YES, does it need to be NO or at least well, lets make it worth anyone's time to begin with first ye? 

TLDR:
1:the conclave menu needs to state that the game is rebalanced for fair play 
2: give it regular alerts in the nav menu.
3: that should do for now! just communication and the same strait forward reward pool as any other alert gets on top of it's own

Edited August 20, 2018 by Hypermega

[AdunSaveMe]

People who don't want to play PvP are not going to play PvP no matter how much you try to push it in their faces or insist that it's balanced. The problem players have with conclave isn't just the small elite community, it's the core gameplay of it, because it's an offshoot of gameplay designed around destroying hordes of enemies. Saying it's fine and needs no change is potentially detrimental to the growth of the mode, and its lack of change is exactly what's kept it as inaccessible as it is.

[EDM774]

You seem to be missing one little detail: Tryhards exist that can oneshot you half way acros the map while doing a backflip mid air holding a donut in one hand and an opticor in the other. That's the kinda people nobody wants to play with. Just because you were lucky not to be matched against one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

PvP is dead and it should stay that way! It's a PvE game go take your PVP and play CS:GO or whatever fancy game you kids play these days.

[Hypermega]

3 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

You seem to be missing one little detail: Tryhards exist that can oneshot you half way acros the map while doing a backflip mid air holding a donut in one hand and an opticor in the other. That's the kinda people nobody wants to play with. Just because you were lucky not to be matched against one of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

PvP is dead and it should stay that way! It's a PvE game go take your PVP and play CS:GO or whatever fancy game you kids play these days.

wait a min, are you coming into conclave suggestions... somewhere that people who want to play it are the only logical target audience and demanding it be dead? like why are YOU specifically here?? did you log in, and come in tot his page just to shut down suggestions? do you do this often? 

[Loza03]

...

Wat.

Conclave is NOT fine right now.

Even with some dedicated servers, there is still some lag that causes issues with the twitch gameplay.

It can be downright impossible to tell what to do in any given scenario for somebody without experience. 'Kill somebody and pick up the drop' is a fairly simple concept, until you realise that everyone, including yourself, moves at 100 miles an hour in any direction they so choose. And several others have sniper rifles.

Zaws that OHKO can be made. Combined with Sonicor for a quick stun, you're basically unstoppable. Only ever seen one, but it was... quite the experience.

Ignis Wraith basically deletes everything in front of the user.

And, although the Community is surprisingly welcoming, it still won't stop them from trickshotting you from halfway across the map midway through a chain of bullet jumps that renders them an untrackable blur to the untrained eye, and leaves you questioning how the HELL are they able to fight at that speed.

PvP could have a place in WF (when the stars align and your pitted with people of equal experience it's fun as hell) but it certainly needs some adjusting. Actual Matchmaking might be nice, and some more rewards. I have considered going after some of the Conclave skins for the prestige of it - almost hit the Nikana one in fact before the new Nikana skin came out and gave me an alternative, and Skiajati looks good on its own anyway. Though it might still be interesting to see a giant regular Nikana… only time will tell if I pick up my 'Hunting Shotgun' as I affectionally called it and go sneaking around again to snag some Kills on the unwary.

[Hypermega]

11 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

People who don't want to play PvP are not going to play PvP no matter how much you try to push it in their faces or insist that it's balanced. The problem players have with conclave isn't just the small elite community, it's the core gameplay of it, because it's an offshoot of gameplay designed around destroying hordes of enemies. Saying it's fine and needs no change is potentially detrimental to the growth of the mode, and its lack of change is exactly what's kept it as inaccessible as it is.

mate either there is no incentive and its dead, some incentive and its being shoved in peoples faces. one of these tactics hasn't worked for it for how many years i don't know but i hardly think a few pixels on the screen is the same as kicking down someone's door and ramming a shoe with a big C on it down the gullet. talk about drama

[TrickshotMcGee]

If PvP was "fine", then more people would play it. But since it isn't actually balanced and the gameplay of warframe doesn't lend itself to PvP, it's decidedly not fine and does need changes. 

The vast majority of the playerbase pretty much agrees that it's a sucky mode, with the handful of players it holds crying about how great it is when they win every match. If 90% (or more) of the people who play the mode hate it, then there's a good chance that it needs to be changed. That's a fact. 

 

Also, one little thing:

1 hour ago, Hypermega said:

why not put conclave alerts

They've actually had entire events centered around playing conclave modes. Most people went in and tried it, but decided they still hated it and went AFK long enough to get their reward and peace out to never touch it again. That's a sure sign that it honestly needs changes. Badly. Just because you like the way it is does not mean that's the way it needs to stay. 

[Hypermega]

9 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

If PvP was "fine", then more people would play it. But since it isn't actually balanced and the gameplay of warframe doesn't lend itself to PvP, it's decidedly not fine and does need changes. 

The vast majority of the playerbase pretty much agrees that it's a sucky mode, with the handful of players it holds crying about how great it is when they win every match. If 90% (or more) of the people who play the mode hate it, then there's a good chance that it needs to be changed. That's a fact. 

 

Also, one little thing:

They've actually had entire events centered around playing conclave modes. Most people went in and tried it, but decided they still hated it and went AFK long enough to get their reward and peace out to never touch it again. That's a sure sign that it honestly needs changes. Badly. Just because you like the way it is does not mean that's the way it needs to stay. 

theres a simple solution to that, like to get a reward you need to stay in combat, move and finish the match. literally every game that ever existed has this kind of a mechanic to protect from leaches.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

everyone, including yourself, moves at 100 miles an hour in any direction they so choose. And several others have sniper rifles.

have you ever played any arena shooter ever? this game is slow! PVP is fine. if its too ludicrously high skill cap for you then that's fine! its not like your playing it anyway. id like to! is that fine? 

 

honestly i regret posting here! i just wanted players to be made aware by the game of how it already works Which they are not and at least get the same kind of reward that other missions offer. who knew that would make me a pariah lol 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Hypermega

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

conclave is dead i wrote entire  post on it had same boy scouts on my post  saying no change is needed,he kept writing to every thing like a 8mb robot 

 

[TrickshotMcGee]

2 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

theres a simple solution to that, like to get a reward you need to stay in combat, move and finish the match. literally every game that ever existed has this kind of a mechanic to protect from leaches.

2 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

honestly i regret posting here! i just wanted players to be made aware by the game of how it already works Which they are not and at least get the same kind of reward that other missions offer.

I think you're missing the point entirely. 

People already know how the PvP works. They're not just ignorant. Most people try it, sooner or later. THAT is the point. Most people try it and dislike it. Know what that means? It's unbalanced and a large portion of people do not find it fun to play. Which subsequently means that the mode is not fine and does need to be changed. 

You can't say "well the guns damage and health values have changed" and suddenly have 5 million people go "OH now I get it! The mode was fun the whole time and I just didn't see it". That's not how it's going to work at all. The mode isn't fun because the balance is supremely poor, and the movement mechanics simply are not fit for this type of PvP. SOMETHING needs to change in order for more people to like it. That is an objective fact.  Bad mechanics and balance  = people not playing the mode. Simple causality. 

To reiterate: People don't play it because it isn't fun. Telling them what they already know or making alerts is not going to make people suddenly think it's fun. You can advertise all you want, but the current state of Conclave is just trash for most players. No amount of denying the problems of the mode is going to fix that. 

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, Hypermega said:

have you ever played any arena shooter ever? this game is slow! PVP is fine. if its too ludicrously high skill cap for you then that's fine! its not like your playing it anyway. id like to! is that fine? 

I'll admit, I'm not familiar with most arena shooters.

I'll also admit I'm very familiar with Warframe, and whilst I don't know how fast most arena shooters necessarily move (although what very limited experience I DO have is they move slower) I also know that with only a handful of exceptions, none of them have the same freedom of movement as Warframe does. Warframes can literally go in any direction at any time as long as there is any kind of surface available, without touching the ground. Pretty sure not even Titanfall allows for that.

Also, even if this point is moot, what of my other points? Like the balance issues that let Ignis Wraith and OHKO Zaws exist, or the lag in a game mode where milliseconds can matter?

And from my experience being on the receiving end of the highest end of these players is extremely unpleasant. 

5 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

if its too ludicrously high skill cap for you then that's fine! its not like your playing it anyway

 

18 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

I have considered going after some of the Conclave skins for the prestige of it - almost hit the Nikana one in fact

Oh I've played it enough. I'm at the top standing rank. That's about a week and a bit of Conclave. Not hundreds of hours sure, but that's still enough to form a pretty good opinion. And that opinion includes the opinion that a high skill cap that's born of impenetrable complexity and questionable balance is inelegant design at best, but that there is a pearl somewhere in here.

10 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

honestly i regret posting here! i just wanted players to be made aware by the game of how it already works Which they are not and at least get the same kind of reward that other missions offer. who knew that would make me a pariah lol 

Regardless of what you wanted, your opinion that everything was fine with conclave as flawed and people, including those with Conclave experience, pointed out those flaws.

[NNKanell]

21 минуту назад, Hypermega сказал:

theres a simple solution to that, like to get a reward you need to stay in combat, move and finish the match. literally every game that ever existed has this kind of a mechanic to protect from leaches. 

have you ever played any arena shooter ever? this game is slow! PVP is fine. if its too ludicrously high skill cap for you then that's fine! its not like your playing it anyway. id like to! is that fine? 

honestly i regret posting here! i just wanted players to be made aware by the game of how it already works Which they are not and at least get the same kind of reward that other missions offer. who knew that would make me a pariah lol  

This PVE community is not surprised.
They are used to the fact that everything in the game is given too easily. They do not know the difference between shooters.
To up the level of mods, which is much easier than to up the level of your game.
Unfortunately, the developers do not take pvp's attention.

@TrickshotMcGee

"Balance Expert"

Спойлер

 

Edited August 21, 2018 by NNKanell

[TrickshotMcGee]

6 minutes ago, NNKanell said:

"Balance Expert"

I never claimed to be a balance expert. I've only tried conclave 2-3 times. 

Most of my argument is following the basic logic. People don't play it, which means that something is wrong. 

[Hypermega]

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Regardless of what you wanted, your opinion that everything was fine with conclave as flawed and people, including those with Conclave experience, pointed out those flaws.

 

44 minutes ago, EDM774 said:

PvP is dead and it should stay that way! It's a PvE game go take your PVP and play CS:GO or whatever fancy game you kids play these days.

lol but honestly it is what it is but i cant even get players to fight and try it out and its always for the reasons i stated in op. scared of higher level players. it doesn't have to be thriving but a few people to swing at would be better than nothing. i find it hard to accept that nobody wants to play a deathmatch game that has bullet jumping in it! iv never seen that before in any game but i bet it would look amazing if played by skilled people

[Hypermega]

5 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

I never claimed to be a balance expert. I've only tried conclave 2-3 times. 

Most of my argument is following the basic logic. People don't play it, which means that something is wrong. 

nobody knows that effort has been made to rebalance all the weapons and frames for it. thats my whole point. its not like new players can tell either due to the nebulous nature of this game but when someone who looks like a fashion frame champion 5 yrs running roles up and swats your default mag what are you going to assume?

[Loza03]

4 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

 

lol but honestly it is what it is but i cant even get players to fight and try it out and its always for the reasons i stated in op. scared of higher level players. it doesn't have to be thriving but a few people to swing at would be better than nothing. i find it hard to accept that nobody wants to play a deathmatch game that has bullet jumping in it! iv never seen that before in any game but i bet it would look amazing if played by skilled people

It's almost like you ignored my point that I played it for a week and a half entirely...

[seprent]

i only played the pvp events the snowball one was fun be funner if the melee weapon was disabled since all i got were slam happy melee users i wanted a snowball fight 

[PoisonHD]

3 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

nobody knows that effort has been made to rebalance all the weapons and frames for it. thats my whole point. its not like new players can tell either due to the nebulous nature of this game but when someone who looks like a fashion frame champion 5 yrs running roles up and swats your default mag what are you going to assume?

Most people who've actually wanted to try it do know that conclave is completely rebalanced, especially anybody that uses the forums and see's the conclave balance changes.

People don't want to play it, because it's hard to learn, and they don't want to get stomped by high-level conclave players.

Edited August 21, 2018 by PoisonHD

[NNKanell]

1 минуту назад, Hypermega сказал:

 

lol but honestly it is what it is but i cant even get players to fight and try it out and its always for the reasons i stated in op. scared of higher level players. it doesn't have to be thriving but a few people to swing at would be better than nothing. i find it hard to accept that nobody wants to play a deathmatch game that has bullet jumping in it! iv never seen that before in any game but i bet it would look amazing if played by skilled people 

Conclave Community - https://discord.gg/0o35sDMUR9RSWTWz
20-25 ranks do not like that they are killed with weapons available to beginners, and beginners think that they do not have a strong weapon available.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, NNKanell said:

20-25 ranks do not like that they are killed with weapons available to beginners

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

What's with Lato and Braton being so powerful in Conclave anyway?

[seprent]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

What's with Lato and Braton being so powerful in Conclave anyway?

they put in real bullets and not plastic BBs

[TrickshotMcGee]

5 minutes ago, Hypermega said:

nobody knows that effort has been made to rebalance all the weapons and frames for it. thats my whole point.

Your point is wrong. 

Literally everyone who has set up a conclave loadout - which means everyone who's tried it since you kind of have to in order to even play - can see clearly that damage numbers and other values are different from PvE. It's not only common sense, but it's something you're forced to look at before you're allowed to start. 

So, yes, people know stuff is changed. They just don't like it.

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

they put in real bullets and not plastic BBs

Ah, so the opposite of what I was loading my Conclave Twin Rogga with then...

[seprent]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Ah, so the opposite of what I was loading my Conclave Twin Rogga with then...

idk what the conclave twin rogga would load maybe foam balls or those gel water balls you see in some toy guns 

[Loza03]

1 minute ago, seprent said:

idk what the conclave twin rogga would load maybe foam balls or those gel water balls you see in some toy guns 

I think it was Confetti.

My trusty Murder Guns were rendered quite low by their rebalancing.