Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

[feralknights]

Upscaling the resource rewards is a good decision.  However, please, please, please pump the brakes on changing this impending disaster that is "odds and evens" for the hundred day reward picks.  Keep the system for 50s/100s intact as-is, at least for now.

[BartTheChicken]

no one gives a crap

[Vox_Preliator]

Hmmm...

I like much of what's here, but one thing in particular strikes me as very, very wrong.  The Primed Mods and Weapons should be swapped.  The most important thing from the Login system for most people are the Weapons, and while putting the Zenistar a hundred days earlier and Sigma and Octantis 300-500 days earlier might be nice, it means that in order to get all the weapons (and their corresponding mastery) is pushed back another hundred days, which is not at all desirable and is much worse in regards to driving people off.  Then it would be "Over two years of logins with no way to speed it up" rather than "Nearly two years of logins with no way to speed it up."

Plus, getting a shiny awesome themed weapon at your hundredth day feels way way way way better than "Hey here's a mod that requires a whole bunch of investment to be better than one you probably already have and might not even use."

For that matter, there are only four Primed mods through the login system currently, and frankly I don't want there to be more.  I greatly disagree with locking power behind logins, it is a flawed system.

Thus, I believe that the system should reward Weapons on odd-hundred milestones (100,300,500,etc) and Primed Mods on even-hundred milestones (200,400,etc).  Alternatively, combine the two pools and allow the player to choose from either set every hundred days.  This would allow for the pools to expand over time without restricting what could be added.

EDIT:  Cool, I'm pretty much on board with this now.  I would still think a combined X00 milestone pool with everything would be the better way to do it, but that's more of a minor gripe.

[Xsoskeleton]

does this mean the current unchanged milestone tribute will have lodestar armor set in day 1000?

[stolvi]

14 days until zenistar, o no i mean 114 days... I don't like this very much. Isn't it more sensible to leave the weapon rewards to 100, 300,... and the primed mods on 200, 400,...?

[babywrath]

1 hour ago, InappropriateTennoName5009 said:

-snip-

Its fair because you already have everything and the choice to get the new items if you like them or the old ones if you are missing them or want more of them. New players and people who don't login daily will get to choose but still won't have everything. This also benefits people who mistakenly got rid of their important weapons and mods despite being vets because they can now get them back. 

Mean rant in spoiler. 

Spoiler

If you need any other reasons for this to be fair, try getting off your high horse and stop being so butt hurt that the primary target for the benefits of this change is for new players who feel completely overwhelmed by the sheer requirement of playing for years before they get those items. If you still feel wronged by the change, then just gloat about how you have all the items from the logins already. That should be enough to satisfy your pride parade right? 

 

[SasoDuck]

I don't see how this actually impacts the complaints of people who feel "left behind" by the system and have to wait X years to get certain items. Sure they can choose which, but they're still going to be years away from actually being able to get all the things. I get that it's supposed to encourage logging in, but there should also be some sort of factor that takes into account in-game hours played or something and that can help multiply your progress towards the next milestone, so that the more you actually play the closer you get to it.

[Case1]

Jeez ... VETS LISTEN!, DE isn't tone-deaf all these topics and all their youtube partners have already brought up this issue multiple times. 

10 to 1 they are going to give you something to compensate you, they've done it before like with the tonkor nerf and they will in all likelihood do it again. So please calm down. 

Hell whenever this change takes effect there will probably be threads filled with new players complaining about whatever DE gives the vets and all of you vets will be in here telling them to stop complaining.

Vicious cycle etc 

[Xsoskeleton]

Beyond Sigma & Octantis and Primed Shred the sundial equipment and primed mods arent even that good performance wise, and just because lodestar syandana takes place in day 800 and Primed Sure Footed in day 900 i dont think it is that necessary to change the other earlier existing odds / even 100 day milestones. Sundial equipments should stay in the odds hundreds instead of the even hundreds.

[FLSH_BNG]

If you want it and can't get it, that's too bad.

 

Deal with it.

[UKnowTheGuy]

I'm glad to see the the milestones rewards won't be tradable. I feel that tradablility of login rewards would dum down the over all value of the time invested to get them in the first place; as for the rest, we'll just have to see how it plays out I suppose.

[Deshiel]

2 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Tenno!

You may recall us confirming back in Devstream #100 that we are looking at changing how the Daily Tribute system works. 15 Devstreams later, we had mockups to show, and we relied too much on recall of that 100th Devstream to properly explain the changes, so here’s a write up of two parts: the Scaling day-to-day, and the Milestones!

Scaling Day-to-day:
 

In the current Daily Tribute system, the day to day rewards have very little scaling. There was two tiers of rewards, so for example, the lower Endo reward was 50 Endo, and the higher was 80. And then we decided if you got lower or higher based on Mastery Rank times 5%. So a Mastery Rank 10 player would have a 50/50 chance and a Mastery Rank 20 player would be guaranteed to get the higher reward. Which isn’t much scaling at all.

 

On the new system it now scales based on the amount of days you have logged on. They increase by 25% for every 50 days. So for the example of Endo, the starting value will be 50 Endo, someone at 400 days, will get 3x the rewards as someone just starting, 150 Endo. For the veterans on day 900, it would be 275 Endo. This is just free Endo for logging in that now scales better - we know that’s not headline news, but it is better.

 

MR	Old Endo Average		Days	New Endo Average
1	50		1	50
5	57.5		200	100
10	65		400	150
15	72.5		600	200
20	80		800	250
25	80		1000	300

It’s largely the 50 day intervals that are under discussion, so let’s take a look at the changes there:

 

Milestones:

For Daily Tribute milestone rewards, we’ve divided them into three separate categories that will appear at the intervals listed below:
 

1. Sigils and Resources. Days 50, 150, 250, etc.

Includes packs like Sigil, Forma and Orokin Reactor. All existing packs will be an option for these intervals.
Includes evergreen packs like 3 x Riven Mod and we are considering adding 3 x Forma.

2. Primed Mods. Days 100, 300, 500, etc.

All existing Primed Mods will be an option for these intervals.
 

3. Weapons and Equipment. Days 200, 400, 600, etc.

This includes the Azima, Zenistar, etc. But also includes the Lodestar Syandana and the upcoming Lodestar Armor Set!

The simple explanation here is that once you've reached a given category, you pick an eligible item from that category. We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

Under some amount of debate is also Milestone rewards such as Primed Mods and Weapons, being tradable. At this time, we are removing this from the plan.

As a final point, we are making these changes because the linearity and complete lack of customization of the system is starting to show its age. We've made it only slightly more flexible while still respecting the core need to login frequently. Personalization is a huge part of Warframe and we think that this changes the Daily Tribute system to better reflect that. With the new track milestones, we're hoping each Tenno will have a reason to look forward to those 50 day logins.

So stay tuned all, hopefully this clarifies the current plan!

by the time a player gets to chose between weapon (mastery fodder) and a fancy syndana, they will probably ditch the cosmetic for weapon outright, Now I remember that you considered the ability to make these weapons tradeable. That will further diminish the choice of the accesories even more, making them obsolete for a majority.

[birdobash]

oh nonononononNONONONO! this may be slightly better for newer players and doesn't matter for older players, but what about all the players between days 200 and 300??? you just made them skip out on the zenistar for another 200 days!  I am personally on the very worst side of the spectrum considering tonight my daily tribute will be day 200 and ill have to wait another 200 days to get eh zenistar xd and ik many of my clanmates are in the same position between day 200 and 300 meaning we just missed out on a lot of time.

[Guest]

So, it's still gonna take years to get all the weapons? Not much of a change, then...

Disappointed, but not surprised.

[Xsoskeleton]

Just now, Deshiel said:

by the time a player gets to chose between weapon (mastery fodder) and a fancy syndana, they will probably ditch the cosmetic for weapon outright, Now I remember that you considered the ability to make these weapons tradeable. That will further diminish the choice of the accesories even more, making them obsolete for a majority.

Lol yeah, not only it kinda lose the feel of getting rewarded for staying with the game for hundreds of days by making them can be put in whichever order u wish,

it can encourage p2w instinct as people would just outright slam plat and trade for it without the need to even log in for hundreds of days. I wonder if they ever learnt from people who tried hard to sell their primed fury for thousands of platinum despite it being an ensured reward if u hit the login tribute day 200 milestone (currently).

[Canadian321]

I have concerns by still essentially locking login weapon's mastery behind 600 days at least of logging in, good to see it's not specific login weapons at least. Overall an improvement, time frame seems unnecessarily large and thus discouraging to people who aren't more than fairly dedicated.

[Ghost_P]

This doesn't change the daily tribute system much though.

When you said we could choose what we want when we hit any milestone every 50 days I thought we could get to choose ANYTHING we wanted, not make 3 different milestone categories...

[Shanzikull]

when the current login reward system was implemented, how far ahead did players know the rewards they'd get? i checked the forum post it went live and only the azima at day 100 was mentioned

[(PSN)FurryZenJustice]

I love Warframe and it's the only game I've been playing for the last six months. Games that don't respect my time and how I want to play drive me batty. My partner isn't going to understand or respect the idea that I have to interrupt the show we're watching to log in for this or that. And frankly it's kind of insane to expect that. I have certain times that I can play. And I play a lot, probably to my detriment. Please, please, please respect your player's time more.

If I put in 1,000 hours over 250 logins I kind of feel like I should be at the same place as someone who hit 1,000 hours over 1,000 logins no?

[Fukushu]

As much as I hate the fact you're going to be giving your Veteran players who have stuck with you for the longest time the shaft again by letting newer players get the login weapons earlier, I'll admit I'm a little less peeved seeing that you're still going to follow a pattern so these entitled crybabies who want everything earlier without putting in the effort we had to newer players still have to make an effort to login to get everything.

EDIT

So, you went and changed the requirements again because the crybabies couldn't accept the consequences of their actions. You need to stop with the "there are no winners, everyone gets a participation trophy" mentality that's causing so many people in these newer generations to feel they're entitled to everything others already put in the work for. Grow a spine, DE, and not just when it's convenient for you (a la that terrible excuse you came up with for keeping the Hema's 5,000 Mutagen Sample requirement).

[Goodwill]

Well, you certainly can't argue "fair" because what you are arguing is unfair for new players and/or vets who's majority of their hours were before the implementation of the login system. So you can't use the argument of "fair" or veteran status. Personally, I say they are more login "gifts" rather than rewards.

[ADirtyMonk]

Adding complexity without actually addressing a major complaint? Sounds about par for the course.

I dont understand how they dont realize that locking mastery and mods behind a time gate measured in YEARS feels #*!%ing terrible. Even moreso since the Zenistar is actually a decent elemental heavy blade, the S+O is one of the few S&S in the game AND has a unique albeit useless mechanic, and primed shred is a powerful mod. Anything that gives mastery or is a mod needs to be pulled out of the stupid login milestones and replaced with decent cosmetics that someone actually put effort into unlike that 2.5 year syandana that doesnt even have the disk animated. Maybe the milestones could actually give something useful like. IDK. Slots?  more than one catalyst/reactor/forma? Maybe give newbies 1, 3, 5, 10, 20 day milestones that contain some of those items so they get things that would maybe convince them to keep on playing instead of making it really #*!%ing obvious they have to shell out cash for slots after the first 20 or so hours of the game when they have nothing worth any plat to trade and are slot blocked. Maybe for older players who have everything the want, give peculiar mods their own slot and lock those mods behind some of the later login rewards so when players see someone running by spraying flowers everywhere they will recognize that player dumped a ton of time into the game. Although I wouldnt be surprised if DE abandoned those and forgot their existence completely. And stop with the goddam sigils. I for one really dont need another obnoxious overly detailed circular sigil that all look the same once I put it on a warframe if i can see it at all.

As for regular drops. Would it kill DE to add things that actually feel good to get like exclusive ayatan statues, exclusive ayatan star decorations, untradable vaulted relics or refined relics or a few rolls worth of kuva or ship decos and actually give a semi-decent chance of getting them? There are so many interesting things that could have been done like: "player will start every mission with a random void fissure buff for the next 3 hours" or "mod capacity of all equipment increased to 60 for the next 3 hours" or "the ____ focus tree is fully unlocked for the next ____ hours". Then there are the drops that are outright insulting to get like the 50 cryotic and 2 fieldron/detonite/mutagen samples. I have no idea why they werent axed.

Idk. This communication is more talking at the playerbase instead of actually listening. Nothing has actually been solved other than players now being able to grab the objectively "best" milestones a little earlier. Most normal drops dont feel good to get even if someone is able to get the 3x bonus. (Its honestly laughable that DE thinks 300 endo is going to make any sort of difference to a 1000 day player who can steamroll any material farm node and thats if they get the endo at all.) The choice system has potential but as usual the execution falls short. Not impressed.

 

[TheFatDrake]

So with the current pattern, it will take 1200 days to get the weapons, syandana and armor. During that time there will be at least 2 repeat Primed mods, provided you don’t make more.

[(PSN)johnsoigne]

I think DE has made the right decision before it’s too late. It is a flawed system no questions about that. Although they just left it carry on like that for 1,000 days and what choice did the fans have back then? 

Both sides will complain if they fix it or not. If they don’t change the system those people who are joining Warframe after 2,000 days or veterans who are coming back after long break will keep complaining about this ‘permanently inferior’ status and they’re getting bigger and bigger everyday.

On the other hand, let’s be honest, those fans who have been logging in for 1,000 days are royally screwed. I feel your pain as much as I hate login elitists I’ve met.

It’s just that you are on the losing side but the decision had to be made at some point. I admit your complaints are all valid points and they have been culminating for years now. Let’s admit both sides are correct. We can agree to disagree. It looks like they are screwing you over in favor of new players but in the end we’re on the same boat, we all lift together. Let’s not fight over this login system. It’s not something that’s truly important. 

You have every right to be angry and needs a pat in the back. 1,000 days isn’t some joke. And this time you guys need some kind of makeup for this sacrifice. This time it’s for real. It’s time to give veterans proper exclusive high level contents to play. A ‘Proper’ one not some alerts. It could be the start of that trend. A proper veteran contents.

[ForgemasterHD]

Having read this a few times, and some concerns people have brought up, I'm still not convinced that the changes being made are justifiably different from the current system to matter.

Things I like Include:

• Choices, I like to make choices and don't like knowing that the Sigma and Octantis is 700 days away.
• Still a big fan of a running counter instead of force login daily
• The ability to get things that are mission critical from just logging in

Things I don't like:

• At MR 20+, 300 endo doesn't seem to be all that worth it, given we're looking at Prime and Riven mods (and u mods) that take upwards of 200k endo. I think the scaling on that might need to be a bit more aggressive. 
• No mention of other values being increased. Currently, logging in to find 10k credits is not worth it past MR10. At this point, you could get double that for running starchart, or even more than that for running the Index for 15 minutes. I would also like to see other hard-to-acquire resources added to that, such as oxium.

I understand what the goal of this is, but I'm not confident that these changes are really substantial to justify a new login system. Theres a lot in this game that is very easy to look at and say  "Oh, I'll never get that." Especially if you're a new player. I think the login reward exemplifies that in that everything is so far away and unfortunately most of my friends do not have the time or addiction to the game that I have, leading many of them to feel like there's no point in pursuing things.