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[DE]Rebecca

Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

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DE, I love you peeps. As a founder closing on 1000 days, 2.5k+ hours in game, MR 25, I'm going to be (hopefully constructively) critical:

This does not feel like it's in tune with scaling. With the release of exalted weapons, more mods, upcoming changes to melee and melee mods (thus the meta) and other this like umbra mods, there are a few obvious things all players, from new to veteran, desire:

  • Forma & potatoes: I have hundreds of potato blueprints, mostly due to events and dev streams, but forma I actually use in the dozens. A three pack sounds nice, that's about one/half of an item (weapon/warframe/pet/etc) I actually want to use. One forma maybe once a month would be an incredible increase for daily tribute and still doesn't sound excessive, it encourages people to play more and try stuff. Forma usage scales with time in game, like endo.
  • Endo: yes there are very few people that don't need it, but only because they farm(ed) it so well. 300 Endo is frankly mindbogglingly out of touch.. unless you want us to feel about it the same way most of us feel about the 10k credits login (or ~35k scaled). If the daily tribute is can be translated to consistent hours of game play required to get this tribute by playing, this amount of endo is like 2 minutes while a potato is like an hour (including trade time, might be too lenient) and credits is like seconds for the people that have this scaling up (500-1000 days etc), it just does not make sense. Combine that with how much more endo you use to get from rank max-1 / 2 to max rank on a mod and it just doesn't fit. Farming endo is already a bit of a grind, so that doesn't feel like it's too much, it would be nice if the daily tribute is more in line with play time.
  • Boosters: boosters feel good for veterans too. Some more so than others (for veterans), but if you are playing, you receive and spend resources. The only thing I would like to add here is that a veteran can use any booster far more optimally while a new player will struggle to get nearly as much value out of a 3 hour booster. I would prefer 1-3 day boosters, it gives newer players a real sense of value and might entice more players to actually buy them (which is a valid DE incentive, I'm one of these players).
  • Platinum discount: tricky one, 75% is the only one that (efficiently) matters, I actively advise players to wait for it because the value is just so much higher than any other discount. DE will/should have more metrics on this, but personally I feel most people who have used a lower discount feels cheated once they finally get the 75% one and I expect a far greater platinum purchase increase when 75% is received over any other. Just feels bad. As someone who has bought platinum many times before, it was always when I got 75% discount and all other discounts feel like the slot machine swallowed my quarter.
  • Unique stuff: whether they are prime mods, weapons or cosmetics, I always at least have the 'neato' reaction. If I am correct in my assumption of why these were split up, I'm disappointed: I assume these were split up in different and non overlapping intervals to limit the amount of choices you have every milestone. I would much prefer a large choice of rewards every milestone (still pick one, still have some things, if DE really feels the need to, only after certain milestones), so that newer players can sort of catch up at certain paths (let's say 2 weapons and 2 prime mods that you actually want after 250 days (milestones 50, 100, 150, 200)), but if you still want everything you're going to the 1000 days regardless (again, if you must).

All the other stuff in daily tribute is cute for vets and for very new players just useful. 

Not tradable sounds like a good way to prevent subjectively legitimate backlash.

 

Personally I prefer a daily tribute token system, with a daily tribute token store. The only way to get a daillar, dailire, flibute, dailivar; <token> is to login (it would be fitting to let app login count and it's more feasible with tokens since you don't need a whole interface with rewards), one per day, added to whatever regular daily tribute you get (resources, boosters, discounts, forma/potatoes). In the <token> store you can buy milestone items (unique cosmetics, weapons, mods) for 50 <token>s. Maybe you can also buy boosters or even discounts for <whatever DE decides is fair> number of <token>s. Add it as a tab to Darvo's shop, bob's your uncle. If you want certain milestone items to only be available after X number of tokens overall registered (all-time <token> counter like we have with credits in the stats on our profiles) that's up to DE I guess. It just feels cleaner and really would the same as my earlier suggestion that all milestone items are options at a milestone, no split between cosmetics/weapons/mods etc. I prefer a token + store because it does not force players to decide right away, while they might want to catch the last minute of that alert. And we have Darvo.

I'm just not sure what this system will solve, what is the problem that this is the solution to. The way it looks is that all problems from the current system are really all still there, but scaling is better. Also, I'm not sure whether the plan is to only have 3 choices at a milestone, or all the choices from the split up reward set, the former would make the improvement weaker too.

Edited by BradKing
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Trying to understand what's going on here. It was just 3 or 4 days ago I hit my 100 day milestone. I did receive my Azima pistol, but had the Primed Mods been set to 100 days back then, and only in the last 24 hours set to 200 hours? I'm trying to get the timing of exactly when the rewards timetable was revised; is my not getting a Primed Mod based on my timing that I would have or should have received it 3 days ago? Or that I just missed the boat on getting it at 100 days and have been set back an additional 100 days?

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Looking forward to it , and i hope them Youtubers and some of the partners stop nagging about it and misleading there subscribers . Its called progress with a system that holds back unique items in the game behind logging tribute that doesn't mean u play the game at all so any update to this system is welcomed . Let ur ego aside for once folks will ya .. Thx again DE

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At this point I'd rather just get 1 token a day in addition to the small daily reward. Create a shop on the relay and give players both milestone unlocks (you get something special for free for playing 6 months, 1 years, etc) and things to trade in their tokens for (no restrictions, just the item's token cost).

DE could further incentivize players for actually playing the game. You could get an extra token or two for completing weekly quests from this vendor (you know, actually rewarding players for playing the game, not just logging in).

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How about having sets of three weapons being available first, i.e. azima, zenistar, zenith being available for the first three rotations of weapon reward. So you pick between the three at first, then the remaining two then get the last one at the third time round. Then you see the next three weapons in the next rotation. It'd make the issue of time invested vs weapon received more appreciable and still allow newer players some flexibility in their rewards and earlier access to some weapons than they might have seen with the current system.

The same could easily apply with the mods, with Fury etc being available at first and eventually whittling down to the last available reward at that rotation.

In addition, for those players who need to reacquire a weapon perhaps have tiers of login rewards only available after completing the previous one or playing so many days. For example with my system as described above. I complete the first three rotations of weapons and mods. Then I find I want to reacquire Azima (for example) or get a second primed fury. I could then opt into a 50/100 day login series that would give me said reward again after it has been done. It'd make it relatively easy to reacquire things that have been lost with a relatively small penalty that is appropriate to it. Then after I have finished the 50/100 days I would return to my previous login position. Think of it as going back to run a level (which is now much easier) in a more old school game with chapters or levels in it.

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21 hours ago, kaelvamp said:

yes its a hard time, you dont know the reallity of those people that put the time and effort to log in every day, people that got a real life and yet managed to log in every day, forgive me for that sir.

when i say and repeat, they'll get to choose the best stuff that WAS LOCKED for us, we needed to wait that long to get the "cool stuff"... and THAT is not cool by ME.
They'll simply get the zenistar at 200, sigma at 400 and the armor at 600, that are the best drops, most people needed to wait at least 700 (sigma) days to get and not even putting into account the 1000 days armor.... that they still will get to choose at 600... its 400 DAYS before.
that is not fair for those that waited.

i dont mean that i dont want to players having it eary, it is just to point out that is not fair for those that waited.


 

Ah I see, so more your pissed that DE doesn't seem willing to lets long time players go back and re-choose those points and get the stuff they actually wanted.

Yeah I'm pissed about that too.

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So you removed the exclusivity without making it any faster? Congrats on finding a solution that makes nobody happy. Logging in daily for 2 years to get a weird gun in this game about shooting weird guns is a garbage idea and you've done nothing to address it. I'd prefer how it currently is tbh and I'm at like 400 days

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27 minutes ago, (PS4)GameHood82 said:

Looking forward to it , and i hope them Youtubers and some of the partners stop nagging about it and misleading there subscribers . Its called progress with a system that holds back unique items in the game behind logging tribute that doesn't mean u play the game at all so any update to this system is welcomed . Let ur ego aside for once folks will ya .. Thx again DE

You dont even understand the system and if you have no criticism of something that means you dont have an opinion at all. Nothing is perfect.

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Simpy put I don't like this new system, it's rewarding new players who don't want to put in the bare minimum effort of loggin in occassionally to get 4 weapons and a few mods. There is a wealth of weapons and mods they can earn, build, or buy in game while they work towards these goals, but thats unacceptable to them which is annoying. Then there is the fact the people who were putting in the effort however minimal it might be are getting told to just deal with it and given nothing worthwhile in the transition. Yes having better reward scalign for a normal day is nice, but the amounts showcased still leave something to be desired yes it's free but the amounts are.. less than I can get on a quick mission run and aren't going to add much to my desire to login. Then there is the concerning statement of ading another category which who knows what that will hold, but that will add further distance to aquiring some of these items which seems to be peoples biggest gripes as well as the fact it seems we won't be getting anything new past the armor which basically pulls any sense of desire to login when theres nothing I'm working on into the negatives.

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Reading some of the comments since my post makes me wonder how many people actually gave it more than 2 seconds to think about what they wrote.

The system doesn't change ANYTHING except removing prestige. Whoever had to login 1000 days in the old system to get everything has to now also login 1000 days in the new system, duh! Just now you can choose the S#&amp;&#036; everyone else had to wait for! So why change it in the first place?
 

Keep the prestige, Keep the peace!

 

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1 minute ago, GA-Bulletproof said:

Reading some of the comments since my post makes me wonder how many people actually gave it more than 2 seconds to think about what they wrote.

The system doesn't change ANYTHING except removing prestige. Whoever had to login 1000 days in the old system to get everything has to now also login 1000 days in the new system, duh! Just now you can choose the S#&amp;&#036; everyone else had to wait for! So why change it in the first place?
 

Keep the prestige, Keep the peace!

 

That's what people are upset about... It's about people being able to acquire something so early on that others have had to wait literal years to get. It's not the time spent to acquire everything that people care about, it's the time spent to acquire the later rewards. I honestly am less bothered myself because i willget Sigma in a few days but I understand the issue for some people though. The porposed changes would make the relative work spent by others meaningless. Imagine if DE said that suddenly they're making only half of weapons give affinity, but that those that will will give double making it so that people can achieve master rank 25 twice as easily. 

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Looks good and am happy they wont be allowed to be traded. Would just end up with alt farming trading things either to themselves or selling to new players or vets who fell behind. I think the new systems helps them both enough that trading isn't a good idea.

I was hoping that every 50 we could just take what ever or at least every 100 mark we could take a mod or a weapon. Personal reasons though this makes sense. I just missed time here and there so am around 600 days so not many options for me anyways.

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I still don't like it. It basically punishes the people like me who simply can not log in every day, therefore never beeing able to catch up... This is especially frustrating since I played since beta, but there are times where theres just no PC available. But I guess it can't be helped.

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1 hour ago, adobeartist said:

Trying to understand what's going on here. It was just 3 or 4 days ago I hit my 100 day milestone. I did receive my Azima pistol, but had the Primed Mods been set to 100 days back then, and only in the last 24 hours set to 200 hours? I'm trying to get the timing of exactly when the rewards timetable was revised; is my not getting a Primed Mod based on my timing that I would have or should have received it 3 days ago? Or that I just missed the boat on getting it at 100 days and have been set back an additional 100 days?

Absolutely nothing, at all, has changed. This is merely how the devs PLAN to change, and after observing reactions they decided that, essentially, nothing changes at all. Except you get to pick what weapon/mod you get when you get one.

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1 minute ago, Nirnakh said:

I still don't like it. It basically punishes the people like me who simply can not log in every day, therefore never beeing able to catch up... This is especially frustrating since I played since beta, but there are times where theres just no PC available. But I guess it can't be helped.

Aside from busy work/school schedules, the other thing that keeps me from playing daily... there are other games I enjoy. I know, as amazing as Warframe is and still the leading model in genuine Free-to-Play, still want to partake of the multitude of experiences available. I've also been into Assassin's Creed Origins, and as a long time Tomb Raider fan, am eagerly anticipating the release of SOTTR.

So many games, so little time. #FirstWorldProblems :nerd:

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I can't wait to see how well this system works when Red Dead Redemption 2 or Fallout 76 releases. I guarantee that players won't be missing logins for Warframe, although I doubt they will stay to play very long. Sounds like a truly rewarding system for DE that benefits only the most dedicated players, right?

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This is pretty much the half-***ed "resolve" just like always. For "veterans"(as i'm closing in on the 500th day) i feel like the daily rewards are a slap to the face (except for the milestones). Also the milestones are not that great either. IMO it should all be packed into one reward. Every 50 days you can choose anything from all the reward pools. Also the endo, even if you "raised" it, it still it laughable and insignifiant compared to what anyone can get. And don't get me started on the sorties rewards... Are we asking for too much if we want boosters to work with those rewards? Like seriously, after some hard work and 30 minutes of my time i get 6k kuva, the same that i would get in 5 minutes in a flood with my cat and a booster. And the endo is again bs. Cuz is pretty much TWICE in the reward pool. Either drop the endo reward or make it double with a booster like the kuva should and that would help the problem until better ideas come. Also it would be nice if the daily rewards logins now would be retroactive if you implement this system, so that people that logged in more can get even more rewards (for example i would love a deconstructor prime that doesn't break my whole melee collection build just because of Primed Fury). Thank you for your attention and i apologize if anything came out too rude.

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This is still a terrible design. And to be honest there  isnt much DE can do to fix it.

The problem here can be put into two words "Gated Power"

No one trys to take away those "Prestige-Items", but Primed Shred/Fury and Zenistar arent just prestige items.

We all know DE trys to have a non competetive environment, were everyone can just play and have fun, in wich case no one would care. But with the scale Warframe has now and with what is announced DE realy need to step up their endgame.

Eidolons were a step into the right direction aswell as the announced Dark Sector rework wich was scrapped unfortunatly. And for proper endgame, wich people expect, those mods and weapons are power. And people want an equal playingfield.

The only good way to solve this would be by releasing the Weapons and Mods into the core game and stick to cosmetics for the Login Rewards. Maybe give the people who got those weapons as a Login Reward a special skin for it.

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I don't think I have the words to describe how little I care about prestige or the insecurities of "veterans," so any sort of catch-up mechanic is an improvement in my opinion. Hell, given how many new players are showing up to the game when we're already so many days in, I'd say a change along these lines is downright necessary at this point (it'd be less important if not for the mods/weapons). This system isn't as aggressive a change as I'd like to see, but it's certainly better than nothing.

As for me personally, I've been in this game for years already but I haven't always been able to play every day. It'll still take forever to get half this stuff, but at least I can skip over a couple things that I don't need or want and save a year of waiting here and there.

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So if I understand this proposed change correctly: an almost three year long grind is becoming an almost three year long grind with plans to extend it out further and include choices? Because if so then this workshop is a slap to the face. It doesn't help out the people close to rewards when it gets released, it does nothing for people already with the rewards, and still keeps new players three years behind everyone else.


Let's say NewGuy5 finds the marvel that is Warframe the day after this change is implemented, he plays for a bit, asks around about builds or researches them on his own and discovers that [Primed Vigor] would be great for the build he has in mind. It's been three months (90 days) but that mod is still almost four more months away so he goes to trade for it but oh no he can't because some vocal people were scared about phantom accounts throwing the platinum economy out of whack. No big deal he figures, it's a fun game he'll just keep playing. Day 100 he gets the promotion he's been looking for and suddenly can't login in every day, with teh new workload he's lucky to login every other day. What should've been another 100 days now becomes 200 at best. He plays when he can and decides that [Primed Shred] would be great for his new favorite primary the [Zenith] ah but that'd be day 400 login if he grabbed [Primed Vigor] in the coming months or he could skip vigor for shred. And then an evergreen armor set is released for day 1100, which with his promotion is now 2000 days away or five and a half years if he can manage to login every other day, not play, just login like a chore.
So we've now made any reward past a few months time seemingly out of reach for anyone who can't or doesn't want to reliably login. This is true for the current system, and true for this proposed change regardless of the choices added. If we look at most other login reward systems (I'm going to use mobile games, in specific Monster Super League and Sdorica) we see that in the first example there's a 28 day login table, with each week being capped by a valuable reward such as eggs, evolution material, or premium currency ($3 worth) and the last week is materials unique to premium currency and events, however each day before that week is also moderately useful in its reward with about five missions worth of gold, food, or energy. Moving onto example two we see that it uses a consecutive login system that awards various currencies and materials in useful amounts (unfortunately I can't be more detailed as the previous and next day aren't viewable to my knowledge).


But Aesith, these are mobile games that are basically card games in disguise not a pc/console space-ninja-wizard-mercenary-pirate-spacekid simulator with pets and cards!
You're right however they work the same way any other free to play game does: customer retention. If every day's login is moderately useful then players are more likely to continually login and play and the more they play the more likely they become to make a purchase. If we take our 5 mission example then the proposed 300 endo at MR25 with 1000 logins becomes closer to 2000, the 2500 credit cache becomes about 30,000, the materials would similarly get multiplied by 5-20 depending on type. Granted this doesn't work perfectly with Warframe (materials in specific) but it makes great progress towards the login rewards feeling useful instead of just disappointing that it wasn't a milestone yet or a platinum discount. And no, 2000 endo or 30,000 credits isn't too much when you consider upgrading a single mod will take upwards of tens of thousands of endo and millions of credits depending on rank/rarity, that a rotation of Heiracon can drop 400 endo every other minute or just a rotation gives 25,000 credits if you immediately extract and takes less than five minutes (less than three with Volt or Nova).

As for how I personally feel about this: my account is more than five years old and I have almost $2000 into Warframe. This is a game I love despite my average of one login a week over the age of my account. Changing the login grind from static rewards to choice rewards while still keeping the same time frames, no catch up mechanic, content locked behind almost three years of consecutively logging in day after day after day, and then saying it's more welcoming to new people? I feel that's insulting and that ultimately nothing changed about it, I'm still no closer to the login content, I'm still lacking two popular weapons and two popular mods, I'm still more than a year away from those things and by the time I have them am I still going to want to use them or will they have been overshadowed by the powercreep that happened during the time-gate? Sure not logging in every day is my fault, I can't contest that but in my defense when I'm only logging in to get a paltry 'reward' and not play, is that really something we want to strive for?

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3 minutes ago, Julian_Skies said:

Absolutely nothing, at all, has changed. This is merely how the devs PLAN to change, and after observing reactions they decided that, essentially, nothing changes at all. Except you get to pick what weapon/mod you get when you get one.

ah, so Primed Mods had always been 200 login days, how all players got em from the intermediate to the veterans. The proposed 100 day advancement was overturned and I'll get mine in about 95(ish) days same as it been from inception.

Kind of funny, because a few youtube channels are talking about how people who were approaching certain milestones, find the goal posts set back behind their current standing, and being screwed out of the reward. Basically being unlucky for reaching the previous halfway point "too soon" as it were, and being penalized for bad timing in their progress. Which fit my description as just being past 100 days by about 3-5.... after the supposed changes.

Good to have this cleared up. I'd sure like to get my hands on a Primed Mod (Continuity, Flow, Intensity, Streamline, etc...) But there are solid suggestions for getting rewards that aren't time-gated, based on actual gameplay effort over arbitrary logins. Those should get serious consideration.

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37 minutes ago, (PS4)CrysJaL said:

That's what people are upset about... It's about people being able to acquire something so early on that others have had to wait literal years to get. It's not the time spent to acquire everything that people care about, it's the time spent to acquire the later rewards. I honestly am less bothered myself because i willget Sigma in a few days but I understand the issue for some people though. The porposed changes would make the relative work spent by others meaningless. Imagine if DE said that suddenly they're making only half of weapons give affinity, but that those that will will give double making it so that people can achieve master rank 25 twice as easily. 

Those people ahead of the Line didnt even realy wait for it. They just got some nice suprise gifts. You cant wait for suprise gifts, they just happen. The people later on are the ones do the patient waiting. And just booting up the client once a day to get another day checked entitles you to *, thats not work.

The people who realy care about the game and how it develops in the future dont mind releasing those weapons and mods to everyone. Its just some entitles few.

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