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12 hours ago, kaotis said:

It's not about them finally getting around to change it, it's why they are really changing it, in this case just for the sake of the new players which is always the case. Every new system they add must have a low level as well ...why? This game desperately needs/needed depending how you want to look at it, an end game yet to every system they add, they put a new player version also... like oh you grew out of normal version you wanna go elite now? cool another registered loser we can neglect now...

Why neglect? coz once a player can manage the "hard" content (which judging from the stats it's grab loki go perna invisible ...wait til they find out octavia is even more broken...) they can do anything in the game.... Off to the new batch of freshly registered losers...

We are discussing the changes to the Daily Tribute system. The changes here allow newer players to choose in what order they unlock certain milestones. I do not see how this system has anything to do with the endgame content in Warframe.

I disagree strongly with your statements regarding DE's treatment of veterans and endgame content, but I also feel that the discussion in this thread is best kept on-topic. Making the new player experience better is not evidence that DE does not care about, iterate upon, improve, or create endgame content. You may be correct - I disagree, but it's possible - but either way the changes proposed in this Dev Workshop aren't relevant to that discussion. It's not a zero-sum game. DE can do both.

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To be honest, couldn't care less about the details of the current system. As far as I'm concerned, the whole "daily login" thing is a bad idea to begin with and here's why:

Let's say you're a veteran player, you've played for 690 day and it's very likely that at this point you've got all there is to get aside from login rewards, but your PC breaks or you just need to take a break yourself for whatever reason and not login for a couple of days. That's 2 years of progress down the drain. 

This rework doesn't change much either, since even if somebody played the game for a year, but needed to take breaks in the process, that somebody might not even get to the 100 day milestone. At that point it would seem more like a cruel joke and not a reward.

 

So, in my opinion, login rewards are fine, but anything "daily" should be left for Facebook/Mobile garbage games.

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On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

On the new system it now scales based on the amount of days you have logged on. They increase by 25% for every 50 days. So for the example of Endo, the starting value will be 50 Endo, someone at 400 days, will get 3x the rewards as someone just starting, 150 Endo. For the veterans on day 900, it would be 275 Endo. This is just free Endo for logging in that now scales better - we know that’s not headline news, but it is better

This effects everything right? Like resources and such? 

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On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The simple explanation here is that once you've reached a given category, you pick an eligible item from that category. We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

This sounds cool. I like it. A good way to show you've been around for a long time. 

On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Under some amount of debate is also Milestone rewards such as Primed Mods and Weapons, being tradable. At this time, we are removing this from the plan

Good. HELL NO to this idea. That idea can forever die. 

On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

As a final point, we are making these changes because the linearity and complete lack of customization of the system is starting to show its age. We've made it only slightly more flexible while still respecting the core need to login frequently. Personalization is a huge part of Warframe and we think that this changes the Daily Tribute system to better reflect that. With the new track milestones, we're hoping each Tenno will have a reason to look forward to those 50 day logins.

I like the changes. As a vet nearing 1000 logins, these changes are very good and still rewarding. 

I really like the idea of 'evergreen' rewards past 1000 days 

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:16 AM, ArtiSylv said:

Still not entirely keen on the idea of weapons and primed mods with unique mechanics being locked behind hundreds of days. This doesn't feel like enough of an improvement, considering it'll still take literally over two years to get all of them assuming you're consistent with logging in

Too bad. That's the point of the login system. 

Stick around

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:17 AM, Emalde said:

If the point of this change is to alleviate the necessity of logging in for Three Years to obtain all of the notable Primed Mods/Tribute Weapons, it doesn't sound like the proposed changes offer anything to that objective? If that wasn't the goal of changing Daily Tribute then why bother in the first place

I don't think that ever was the point. 

They're not just going to delete the worth of years and years of play time for vets. That would be dumb. They are allowing people to choose what they want at given intervals. 

That way if someone specifically what's the Zenistar they won't have to login for however many days (is it 500? I can't remember) 

The can instead choose it at 200 days as the first weapon to get

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15 minutes ago, Infirito said:

Let's say you're a veteran player, you've played for 690 day and it's very likely that at this point you've got all there is to get aside from login rewards, but your PC breaks or you just need to take a break yourself for whatever reason and not login for a couple of days. That's 2 years of progress down the drain.  

um... no it's not, you'll have your 690 days when you login again (with the same username etc obviously), they don't just get reset to zero if you take a break..  You won't have gained any extra days or anything but you won't have lost your existing progress. 

Now if that break happened exactly when the last login rewards change happened (update 18ish) then you will have been reset just like every other player at that time. 

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:20 AM, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Sounds much better. I'm also glad you decided to steer clear of trade complications.

> We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

This would be nice, having to choose a duplicate weapon at a 200 day interval would be ok (free slot)...but being able to pick something like a riven pack or a resource booster could be preferable...

A fourth catagory could be aowmthing entirely different. Personally is love 1000+ day cosmetics. Like an emblem that you can only get after 1000 days or something. 

Imo, I'd love weapons locked to 1000+ days but I know that so many people would cry about that

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:21 AM, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Any scaling on non-Endo rewards? Any chance to get Cryo or Oxium in daily rewards?

Also, while I'm a relative late-comer to the game starting late last year, I have 600+ hours and I'm MR 24 so I'm a heavy player. Is there any chance to get some form of accelerated reward system in place? I know there's a balancing act here, but it's frustrating to know it's going to take another year or more just to get all the weapons.

No. I don't want this. As a vet, this ruins the worth of coming back to the game every day for years. 

You don't get a catch a system. Just continue logging in, but this time, with a choice of what to get 

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14 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

still just an unwanted anti-newbie system, thanks

The system was made and is in place to make players come back the next day, it shares interest with trade limit resets, nitain extracts, extractors and so on, it is to reward players that make an effort in comming back.

It is not a system to replace gameplay, to give you free stuff and obey to instant gratification gameplay.

The new system will allow you to pick what you want, if you are picky, 200 days and you will get what you need, then you work on the next 200 days for the next mod you need, it also gives you a small boost to resources, endo and so on, 200 days might be a significant ammount of endo, don't discard free content for such a minimal action, the logging in.

If that is to much of a burned, then the rewards (any of them) won't have a real impact on you and your gameplay.

Edited by KIREEK
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Several notable WF tubers suggested that DE should put the daily login specific weapons/mods grindable in game and then have those milestone rewards be based on cosmetics instead. Like special syadannas, warframe/pet armors, sigils, glyphs, cash shop items like boosts, etc: something flashy and cool that you can show off to friends (or other players). I like this idea better.

 

Edited by iuki.
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4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

The system was made and is in place to make players come back the next day, it shares interest with trade limit resets, nitain extracts, extractors and so on, it is to reward players that make an effort in comming back.

It is not a system to replace gameplay, to give you free stuff and obey to instant gratification gameplay.

The new system will allow you to pick what you want, if you are picky, 200 days and you will get what you need, then you work on the next 200 days for the next mod you need, it also gives you a small boost to resources, endo and so on, 200 days might be a significant ammount of endo, don't discard free content for such a minimal action, the logging in.

If that is to much of a burned, then the rewards (any of them) won't have a real impact on you and your gameplay.

And yet, as a system, it fails at doing so because players will always be looking ahead at the new stuff that is going to be added as the next reward. I personally remember Sigma and Octantis being revealed and being excited at first, only to realise I had no point to be excited as it was over 600 days away and so wouldn't be getting it for roughly 2 years, and I've still not got it now as I'm just about to hit Zenith. The new system does nothing to help shorten the already ridiculous time gap between new players, those like myself in the middle of the track, and those at the very end of it, which is the biggest issue with the current system. 

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The system failed, the proposed rework is a failure, DE your better off just sending the weapons to the Tenno Lab and the mods to Baro. Then reworking the system so no actual content needed to progress in the game is time gated.

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As I log in and get my 2x neurodes, I'd like to talk about those non-milestone days a bit. Lots of people have posted many good ideas about milestone rewards (shorten time between them to 30 days, let you pick from a list, etc) but y'know part of this rework is the days in between and I want to agree with a lot of posts on that too.

The proposed amounts could easily be doubled or more and not give out too much endo compared to what an MR25 player might need against primed or umbral mods. And what about rare resources? Add kuva to the drop table if someone's completed TWW, at least enough to do a roll or two of a 0 roll riven. Add oxium and cryotic in useful quantities (couple hundred, probably more cryo than oxium). Give more ocells, if a weapon takes 10-15 to make getting one at a time could easily be 4 at a time without changing the need to grind for them. 

the way I'd look at it is to look at a given quantity of reward and say "would literally doubling this be unbalanced?" and if the answer is no, literally double it and ask the question again.

for the record, 4x neurodes would not be unbalanced. I just thought that for some reason ;)

 

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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I disagree with most of what you said in all honesty. You've cherry picked specific things which 'might' benefit from them but they're not essential.  You make out primed fury is some special case when in fact you get that at 200 days, it's the first primed mod you can get.... 200 days isn't that long unless you're purely after instant gratification.  

Also 3 built forma per mod/weapon for players at close to 1000 days is kind of a stupid suggestion as compensation, when you're at 1000 days you've likely gone though over hundreds of forma

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the current system but then I'm not someone who is only after instant gratification and can see quite clearly that these mods (or weapons in fact) are not essential in the same way maiming strike is not the 'holy grail' mod some make it out to be.

There are thousands of builds in Warframe, of course I highlighted the ones that are hurt the most by the lack of these primed mods. My point is that while you can design an inferior build, each player should be given the opportunity to optimize their builds either from farming or from trading.

Having a time gate only works for event exclusive items as these eventually get added to normal loot tables, so the exclusivity is only temporary and acts like a badge of honor for that event. But even those are too important to keep locked away from normal means of access. Heck, even Primed Chamber can be traded. 

These 4 primed mods are outliers and while you can say that 200 logins isn't that bad, some players only play on weekends so they get 2-3  logins per week, more than doubling that time. And that's just for the first one. That's not alright for content that is this significant. That isn't a reward system, that's a punishment for having real life responsibilities that prevent you from logging in every day.

I guarantee if DE made logins possible from the app then this would be much less of an issue as nearly everyone has a phone to login daily, some of us just don't have access to a PC/console every day. But like all things DE they ignored the problem until years later so now here we are with a flawed login system and a developer that doesn't understand the problem.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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Just now, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

There are thousands of builds in Warframe, of course I highlighted the ones that are hurt the most by the lack of these primed mods. My point is that while you can design an inferior build, each player should be given the opportunity to optimize their builds either from farming or from trading. 

Having a time gate only works for event exclusive items as these eventually get added to normal loot tables, so the exclusivity is only temporary and acts like a badge of honor for that event. But even those are too important to keep locked away from normal means of access. Heck, even Primed Chamber can be traded. 

These 4 primed mods are outliers and while you can say that 200 logins isn't that bad, some players only play on weekends so they get 2-3  logins per week, more than doubling that time. And that's just for the first one. That's not alright for content that is this significant. That isn't a reward aystem, that's a punishment for having real life responsibilities that prevent you from logging in every day.

I guarantee if DE made logins possible from the app then this would be much less of an issue as nearly everyone has a phone to login daily, some of us just don't have access to a PC/console every day. But like all things DE they ignored the problem until years later so now here we are with a broken login system and a developer that doesn't understand the problem.

You still can build things with those mods, you just have to wait like everyone else who has come before you. 

I've waited for mine, those before me did too, I didn't have a problem with it because I didn't and still don't see those mods as essential.

DE should NEVER make login rewards available from the phone app, it would completely defeat the point of login rewards which is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam while the app can't do that.

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1) RANT

Personally I don't see how this changes the current problem, someone wanting to obtain everything that starts playing today is 1000 days behind, will always be 1000 days behind and will so remain forever there's no gain on the current login leaders.

You originally promised (to my understanding) that every 50 days you get to choose from all the rewards, sure your going to blow through better content getting weapons and mods first and then after pick from your favourite reactor/sigil pack cause everyone knows at 1000 days I needs them reactors. But new players who are quick on the ball get 3 weapons and 4 mods in 350 days or 1 year, though likely they'll waste at least the first one so lets say 400 days.

2) HORRIBLE UNFORSEEN (by you) CONDEQUENCES

This new system is bullS#&$ and badly thought out, allow weapons and mods to be traded? You know who many fake accounts are going to get rolled by scumbags for plat farming? 

3) What you should probably do.

Either stop releasing content, maybe that's planned but it wasn't mentioned or keep releasing content at 50 day intervals but make it so players can collect on them once a month (30 days). That way new players are catching old by 3 rewards per year, seeing the gap drop feeling like they're getting somewhere. Hey even old players like me that are a few weeks/months... years behind due to unforeseen incidents or taking breaks from the game can get back to pole position but for god sake do not make rewards tradable. 

 

PS Regarding that comment on reactors, please make a 1 time blueprint from some syndicate that allows a reactor to be converted into a catalyst for not 100k standing. 

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1) RANT

Personally I don't see how this changes the current problem, someone wanting to obtain everything that starts playing today is 1000 days behind, will always be 1000 days behind and will so remain forever there's no gain on the current login leaders.

You originally promised (to my understanding) that every 50 days you get to choose from all the rewards, sure your going to blow through better content getting weapons and mods first and then after pick from your favourite reactor/sigil pack cause everyone knows at 1000 days I needs them reactors. But new players who are quick on the ball get 3 weapons and 4 mods in 350 days or 1 year, though likely they'll waste at least the first one so lets say 400 days.

2) HORRIBLE UNFORSEEN (by you) CONDEQUENCES

This new system is bS and badly thought out, allow weapons and mods to be traded? You know who many fake accounts are going to get rolled by scumbags for plat farming? 

3) What you should probably do.

Either stop releasing content, maybe that's planned but it wasn't mentioned or keep releasing content at 50 day intervals but make it so players can collect on them once a month (30 days). That way new players are catching old by 3 rewards per year, seeing the gap drop feeling like they're getting somewhere. Hey even old players like me that are a few weeks/months... years behind due to unforeseen incidents or taking breaks from the game can get back to pole position but for god sake do not make rewards tradable. 

 

PS Regarding that comment on reactors, please make a 1 time blueprint from some syndicate that allows a reactor to be converted into a catalyst for not 100k standing. 

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32 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

the point of login rewards is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam.

Does logging in really count as playing though?, i can imagine most people just start up the game to get their counter up and close it afterwards, that doesn't really confer as loyalty to me. player count is important, but if everybody logging in are just slaves to the system, is that really okay?

I respect that you guys at 900+ days want everybody else to sit through the wait like you did, but a system like that is extremely disheartening to new players, or old players that ended up missing some days. The functional items should be readily available without waiting for years, whether that be through moving them somewhere else than the login system or adding a catch-up mechanic to the system.

The cosmetics can stay at high numbers though, they don't contribute to actual gameplay and i think everybody closing in on them or already possessing them would appreciate being able to show off that kind of long term non-essential prestige.

 

Edited by Chronozilla
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100 day players are gonna get the best login weapon instantly. I do not agree with this system and the hand holding of new players. when will veterans have something just for them and nobody else? I feel unloved and ignored DE, why not throw people with certain intervals of login days a tiered exclusive cosmetic item? Maybe a Profile picture or Sigil that gets cooler the more days you logged in. That's just my opinion though because this is getting ridiculous...

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51 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You still can build things with those mods, you just have to wait like everyone else who has come before you. 

I've waited for mine, those before me did too, I didn't have a problem with it because I didn't and still don't see those mods as essential.

DE should NEVER make login rewards available from the phone app, it would completely defeat the point of login rewards which is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam while the app can't do that.

Neither PS4 or Xbox have player counts that users can monitor on a regular basis so that argument only works for Steam, meaning that just like how Tennogen can be purchased with plat on consoles, major differences exist between platforms and logins serve no true purpose on consoles either. That is yet another example of why the entire login system is flawed.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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So, a suggestion that can(maybe) help to calm both sides on this tread:
Give a bonus based on the age of the account, ex:if you are over than a year, you have chance of a login bonus(that then decrease as you approach 1000, and or more picks on milestone days(1 year-2 mods and 1 weapons and other a blueprint of a login weapon; 2 years-3 mods/weapon/blueprint...)

Other is the token thing and again give it a bonus based on the age of your account

Lock some of it behind a MR wall, so it would not be to harsh on new players
maybe at every 8 MR ranks you gain a bonus to login too

Also, give us a special login on the anniversary of the account, making it count as a milestone so we can chose whenever we want 
 

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6 minutes ago, LupoDWolf said:

So, a suggestion that can(maybe) help to calm both sides on this tread:
Give a bonus based on the age of the account, ex:if you are over than a year, you have chance of a login bonus(that then decrease as you approach 1000, and or more picks on milestone days(1 year-2 mods and 1 weapons and other a blueprint of a login weapon; 2 years-3 mods/weapon/blueprint...)

Other is the token thing and again give it a bonus based on the age of your account

Lock some of it behind a MR wall, so it would not be to harsh on new players
 maybe at every 8 MR ranks you gain a bonus to login too

Also, give us a special login on the anniversary of the account, making it count as a milestone so we can chose whenever we want 
 

This I like, do this please DE!

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