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[DE]Rebecca

Daily Tribute Dev Workshop!

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As a Founder and Vet the new system and being so closes to getting the armor feels wrong what's about to come out.

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25 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

To be fair though (I'm mr25 for reference), it's not as though the mods given via login are game breaking or 'you must use them'.  I could understand the argument if it was something like primed continuity or primed flow where there is a clear benefit to using them but lets be real here, primed shred, primed fury and primed vigor are hardly 'needed' items in any build. 

Some would argue primed shred is a downgrade due to ammo usage, primed fury is easily replaced with berserker and primed vigor is only really useful if you need extra shields because you can pretty much match it's health using a gladiator resolve for less capacity (it's only about 200 health difference on inaros where it would have the biggest difference).  Plus it's not like most high MR players run with shields in their builds (obviously exceptions) anyway because we know they're pretty useless (yes DE we're still waiting on that shield rework...), especially against aura's. 

Then we have that mod I'm sure everyone is going to use on their builds when they get it, primed sure footed.... I only got the non prime a few months back after over 2 years playing the game and I've never seen a need to use that let alone a primed version, hell I'm not even going to waste the endo or credits levelling it when I eventually get it. 

Oh and I'm not even going to go into how rivens can outclass the weapon primed mods from login rewards on the right weapons. 

And that is your choice but it doesn't excuse gating items that directly affect player power in this way. Take a damage reduction build as an example. Sure you can use Vitality and have more health than shields but since shields regen you lose out on a lot of eHP unless you are healing to full every fight making Primed Vigor the superior mod (by quite a lot depending on your damage reduction % and how often you heal).

The same applies to Primed Shred and the Amprex which is already very ammo efficient or the Supra Vandal which helps to negate the initial spool time. Sure, you can play without Primed Shred but no one with the option is going to do that unless they are not optimizing direct damage.

And don't pretend a status weapon can even compare Berserker to Primed Fury. They function very differently depending on the weapon's stats or build.

Again, the problem is that these mods should have never been gated in such a manner. They are just too important overall and to be fair, requiring 40k endo and 2 million credit to max doesn't make them much of a reward to new players anyway.

At this point the best solution is for DE to own up to this and give players 3 built forma per each of these mods they have, and then place these primed mods at Baro for the next 4 visits. It's one thing to gate cosmetics or weapons (which isn't great but at least there is a precedent for it), and something completely different to do it for primed mods.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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Kinda annoys me that I JUST hit my 100 day login and got stuck with the PoS Azima. When If I knew I could of had a chose and got the Zenistar -the only reward I even care about getting- This bites, then people had to get upset about the change from 300 to 200, so now I'm stuck having to login for another half a year to get it. Yay!! More time wallss!! 

Its best to not mess with things like this. It going to be impossible to please everyone. 

Edited by Zinnie01
reworded.

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Am gonna give a bit of stupid opinion:

Wepons should have never been locked as rewards after a certain number of days you logged in. Why not make them rewards after a certain mr test, to be a reward for actually playing the game. 

Cosmetics and the rest are fine with log in rewarding sytem.  I however, prefer actually playing the game, and not just getting free stuff on daily rewards. If this is a way to test reward scaling, and a way to make our new mission reward system better, then i welcome it. 

 

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by the pictures. it seems to be "hidden" and its all "RNG" of which one you choose. please make it so we can "choose" by seeing which one then claim which one we want. you don't know how many tableflips and broken keyboard going to happen when they pick a mod they already have or not wanted yet. So non-coverd able to see which one to claim will be nice. also think of adding 30 day reward, mini one. like chances of riven(for ones that have it unlocked)/Primed mod (baro prime mods, with non-tradeable mark or not. that is all up to you D.E)/ most common in my mind for 30 day reward will be 4 Relic packs. 1 of each tier. so only lith in pack one, meso in pack 2, pack 3 neo only, pack 4 is only axi relics. 

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42 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

And that is your choice but it doesn't excuse gating items that directly affect player power in this way. Take a damage reduction build as an example. Sure you can use Vitality and have more health than shields but since shields regen you lose out on a lot of eHP unless you are healing to full every fight making Primed Vigor the superior mod (by quite a lot depending on your damage reduction % and how often you heal). 

The same applies to Primed Shred and the Amprex which is already very ammo efficient or the Supra Vandal which helps to negate the initial spool time. Sure, you can play without Primed Shred but no one with the option is going to do that unless they are not optimizing direct damage. 

And don't pretend a status weapon can even compare Berserker to Primed Fury. They function very differently depending on the weapon's stats or build.

Again, the problem is that these mods should have never been gated in such a manner. They are just too important overall and to be fair, requiring 40k endo and 2 million credit to max doesn't make them much of a reward to new players anyway. 

At this point the best solution is for DE to own up to this and give players 3 built forma per each of these mods they have, and then place these primed mods at Baro for the next 4 visits. It's one thing to gate cosmetics or weapons (which isn't great but at least there is a precedent for it), and something completely different to do it for primed mods. 

I disagree with most of what you said in all honesty. You've cherry picked specific things which 'might' benefit from them but they're not essential.  You make out primed fury is some special case when in fact you get that at 200 days, it's the first primed mod you can get.... 200 days isn't that long unless you're purely after instant gratification.  

Also 3 built forma per mod/weapon for players at close to 1000 days is kind of a stupid suggestion as compensation, when you're at 1000 days you've likely gone though over hundreds of forma

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the current system but then I'm not someone who is only after instant gratification and can see quite clearly that these mods (or weapons in fact) are not essential in the same way maiming strike is not the 'holy grail' mod some make it out to be.

Edited by LSG501
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12 hours ago, kaotis said:

It's not about them finally getting around to change it, it's why they are really changing it, in this case just for the sake of the new players which is always the case. Every new system they add must have a low level as well ...why? This game desperately needs/needed depending how you want to look at it, an end game yet to every system they add, they put a new player version also... like oh you grew out of normal version you wanna go elite now? cool another registered loser we can neglect now...

Why neglect? coz once a player can manage the "hard" content (which judging from the stats it's grab loki go perna invisible ...wait til they find out octavia is even more broken...) they can do anything in the game.... Off to the new batch of freshly registered losers...

We are discussing the changes to the Daily Tribute system. The changes here allow newer players to choose in what order they unlock certain milestones. I do not see how this system has anything to do with the endgame content in Warframe.

I disagree strongly with your statements regarding DE's treatment of veterans and endgame content, but I also feel that the discussion in this thread is best kept on-topic. Making the new player experience better is not evidence that DE does not care about, iterate upon, improve, or create endgame content. You may be correct - I disagree, but it's possible - but either way the changes proposed in this Dev Workshop aren't relevant to that discussion. It's not a zero-sum game. DE can do both.

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To be honest, couldn't care less about the details of the current system. As far as I'm concerned, the whole "daily login" thing is a bad idea to begin with and here's why:

Let's say you're a veteran player, you've played for 690 day and it's very likely that at this point you've got all there is to get aside from login rewards, but your PC breaks or you just need to take a break yourself for whatever reason and not login for a couple of days. That's 2 years of progress down the drain. 

This rework doesn't change much either, since even if somebody played the game for a year, but needed to take breaks in the process, that somebody might not even get to the 100 day milestone. At that point it would seem more like a cruel joke and not a reward.

 

So, in my opinion, login rewards are fine, but anything "daily" should be left for Facebook/Mobile garbage games.

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On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

On the new system it now scales based on the amount of days you have logged on. They increase by 25% for every 50 days. So for the example of Endo, the starting value will be 50 Endo, someone at 400 days, will get 3x the rewards as someone just starting, 150 Endo. For the veterans on day 900, it would be 275 Endo. This is just free Endo for logging in that now scales better - we know that’s not headline news, but it is better

This effects everything right? Like resources and such? 

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On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

The simple explanation here is that once you've reached a given category, you pick an eligible item from that category. We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

This sounds cool. I like it. A good way to show you've been around for a long time. 

On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Under some amount of debate is also Milestone rewards such as Primed Mods and Weapons, being tradable. At this time, we are removing this from the plan

Good. HELL NO to this idea. That idea can forever die. 

On 2018-08-22 at 2:58 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

As a final point, we are making these changes because the linearity and complete lack of customization of the system is starting to show its age. We've made it only slightly more flexible while still respecting the core need to login frequently. Personalization is a huge part of Warframe and we think that this changes the Daily Tribute system to better reflect that. With the new track milestones, we're hoping each Tenno will have a reason to look forward to those 50 day logins.

I like the changes. As a vet nearing 1000 logins, these changes are very good and still rewarding. 

I really like the idea of 'evergreen' rewards past 1000 days 

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:11 AM, zNightWolfz said:

will our current days be reset though or just continue

Obviously continue. They wouldn't reset it now 

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:16 AM, ArtiSylv said:

Still not entirely keen on the idea of weapons and primed mods with unique mechanics being locked behind hundreds of days. This doesn't feel like enough of an improvement, considering it'll still take literally over two years to get all of them assuming you're consistent with logging in

Too bad. That's the point of the login system. 

Stick around

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:17 AM, Emalde said:

If the point of this change is to alleviate the necessity of logging in for Three Years to obtain all of the notable Primed Mods/Tribute Weapons, it doesn't sound like the proposed changes offer anything to that objective? If that wasn't the goal of changing Daily Tribute then why bother in the first place

I don't think that ever was the point. 

They're not just going to delete the worth of years and years of play time for vets. That would be dumb. They are allowing people to choose what they want at given intervals. 

That way if someone specifically what's the Zenistar they won't have to login for however many days (is it 500? I can't remember) 

The can instead choose it at 200 days as the first weapon to get

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15 minutes ago, Infirito said:

Let's say you're a veteran player, you've played for 690 day and it's very likely that at this point you've got all there is to get aside from login rewards, but your PC breaks or you just need to take a break yourself for whatever reason and not login for a couple of days. That's 2 years of progress down the drain.  

um... no it's not, you'll have your 690 days when you login again (with the same username etc obviously), they don't just get reset to zero if you take a break..  You won't have gained any extra days or anything but you won't have lost your existing progress. 

Now if that break happened exactly when the last login rewards change happened (update 18ish) then you will have been reset just like every other player at that time. 

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:20 AM, (PS4)Elvenbane said:

Sounds much better. I'm also glad you decided to steer clear of trade complications.

> We are also looking into adding a fourth category past the 1000 Milestone with more 'evergreen' rewards'.

This would be nice, having to choose a duplicate weapon at a 200 day interval would be ok (free slot)...but being able to pick something like a riven pack or a resource booster could be preferable...

A fourth catagory could be aowmthing entirely different. Personally is love 1000+ day cosmetics. Like an emblem that you can only get after 1000 days or something. 

Imo, I'd love weapons locked to 1000+ days but I know that so many people would cry about that

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On 2018-08-22 at 3:21 AM, (PS4)FurryZenJustice said:

Any scaling on non-Endo rewards? Any chance to get Cryo or Oxium in daily rewards?

Also, while I'm a relative late-comer to the game starting late last year, I have 600+ hours and I'm MR 24 so I'm a heavy player. Is there any chance to get some form of accelerated reward system in place? I know there's a balancing act here, but it's frustrating to know it's going to take another year or more just to get all the weapons.

No. I don't want this. As a vet, this ruins the worth of coming back to the game every day for years. 

You don't get a catch a system. Just continue logging in, but this time, with a choice of what to get 

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14 minutes ago, Test-995 said:

still just an unwanted anti-newbie system, thanks

The system was made and is in place to make players come back the next day, it shares interest with trade limit resets, nitain extracts, extractors and so on, it is to reward players that make an effort in comming back.

It is not a system to replace gameplay, to give you free stuff and obey to instant gratification gameplay.

The new system will allow you to pick what you want, if you are picky, 200 days and you will get what you need, then you work on the next 200 days for the next mod you need, it also gives you a small boost to resources, endo and so on, 200 days might be a significant ammount of endo, don't discard free content for such a minimal action, the logging in.

If that is to much of a burned, then the rewards (any of them) won't have a real impact on you and your gameplay.

Edited by KIREEK

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Several notable WF tubers suggested that DE should put the daily login specific weapons/mods grindable in game and then have those milestone rewards be based on cosmetics instead. Like special syadannas, warframe/pet armors, sigils, glyphs, cash shop items like boosts, etc: something flashy and cool that you can show off to friends (or other players). I like this idea better.

 

Edited by iuki.
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4 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

The system was made and is in place to make players come back the next day, it shares interest with trade limit resets, nitain extracts, extractors and so on, it is to reward players that make an effort in comming back.

It is not a system to replace gameplay, to give you free stuff and obey to instant gratification gameplay.

The new system will allow you to pick what you want, if you are picky, 200 days and you will get what you need, then you work on the next 200 days for the next mod you need, it also gives you a small boost to resources, endo and so on, 200 days might be a significant ammount of endo, don't discard free content for such a minimal action, the logging in.

If that is to much of a burned, then the rewards (any of them) won't have a real impact on you and your gameplay.

And yet, as a system, it fails at doing so because players will always be looking ahead at the new stuff that is going to be added as the next reward. I personally remember Sigma and Octantis being revealed and being excited at first, only to realise I had no point to be excited as it was over 600 days away and so wouldn't be getting it for roughly 2 years, and I've still not got it now as I'm just about to hit Zenith. The new system does nothing to help shorten the already ridiculous time gap between new players, those like myself in the middle of the track, and those at the very end of it, which is the biggest issue with the current system. 

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The system failed, the proposed rework is a failure, DE your better off just sending the weapons to the Tenno Lab and the mods to Baro. Then reworking the system so no actual content needed to progress in the game is time gated.

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As I log in and get my 2x neurodes, I'd like to talk about those non-milestone days a bit. Lots of people have posted many good ideas about milestone rewards (shorten time between them to 30 days, let you pick from a list, etc) but y'know part of this rework is the days in between and I want to agree with a lot of posts on that too.

The proposed amounts could easily be doubled or more and not give out too much endo compared to what an MR25 player might need against primed or umbral mods. And what about rare resources? Add kuva to the drop table if someone's completed TWW, at least enough to do a roll or two of a 0 roll riven. Add oxium and cryotic in useful quantities (couple hundred, probably more cryo than oxium). Give more ocells, if a weapon takes 10-15 to make getting one at a time could easily be 4 at a time without changing the need to grind for them. 

the way I'd look at it is to look at a given quantity of reward and say "would literally doubling this be unbalanced?" and if the answer is no, literally double it and ask the question again.

for the record, 4x neurodes would not be unbalanced. I just thought that for some reason ;)

 

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2 hours ago, LSG501 said:

I disagree with most of what you said in all honesty. You've cherry picked specific things which 'might' benefit from them but they're not essential.  You make out primed fury is some special case when in fact you get that at 200 days, it's the first primed mod you can get.... 200 days isn't that long unless you're purely after instant gratification.  

Also 3 built forma per mod/weapon for players at close to 1000 days is kind of a stupid suggestion as compensation, when you're at 1000 days you've likely gone though over hundreds of forma

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with the current system but then I'm not someone who is only after instant gratification and can see quite clearly that these mods (or weapons in fact) are not essential in the same way maiming strike is not the 'holy grail' mod some make it out to be.

There are thousands of builds in Warframe, of course I highlighted the ones that are hurt the most by the lack of these primed mods. My point is that while you can design an inferior build, each player should be given the opportunity to optimize their builds either from farming or from trading.

Having a time gate only works for event exclusive items as these eventually get added to normal loot tables, so the exclusivity is only temporary and acts like a badge of honor for that event. But even those are too important to keep locked away from normal means of access. Heck, even Primed Chamber can be traded. 

These 4 primed mods are outliers and while you can say that 200 logins isn't that bad, some players only play on weekends so they get 2-3  logins per week, more than doubling that time. And that's just for the first one. That's not alright for content that is this significant. That isn't a reward system, that's a punishment for having real life responsibilities that prevent you from logging in every day.

I guarantee if DE made logins possible from the app then this would be much less of an issue as nearly everyone has a phone to login daily, some of us just don't have access to a PC/console every day. But like all things DE they ignored the problem until years later so now here we are with a flawed login system and a developer that doesn't understand the problem.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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Just now, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

There are thousands of builds in Warframe, of course I highlighted the ones that are hurt the most by the lack of these primed mods. My point is that while you can design an inferior build, each player should be given the opportunity to optimize their builds either from farming or from trading. 

Having a time gate only works for event exclusive items as these eventually get added to normal loot tables, so the exclusivity is only temporary and acts like a badge of honor for that event. But even those are too important to keep locked away from normal means of access. Heck, even Primed Chamber can be traded. 

These 4 primed mods are outliers and while you can say that 200 logins isn't that bad, some players only play on weekends so they get 2-3  logins per week, more than doubling that time. And that's just for the first one. That's not alright for content that is this significant. That isn't a reward aystem, that's a punishment for having real life responsibilities that prevent you from logging in every day.

I guarantee if DE made logins possible from the app then this would be much less of an issue as nearly everyone has a phone to login daily, some of us just don't have access to a PC/console every day. But like all things DE they ignored the problem until years later so now here we are with a broken login system and a developer that doesn't understand the problem.

You still can build things with those mods, you just have to wait like everyone else who has come before you. 

I've waited for mine, those before me did too, I didn't have a problem with it because I didn't and still don't see those mods as essential.

DE should NEVER make login rewards available from the phone app, it would completely defeat the point of login rewards which is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam while the app can't do that.

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