_junguler Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 at this point there is no right answer left for this problem, no matter what they do some portion of the community is going to be displeased. but that's what you get by ignoring a problem for almost 3 years ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ErraticNeighbor Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 One thing lacking from this workshop is the math related to current login system and some proposed ones throughout this thread. I decided to calculate it out for the current 50 day interval and proposed 30 day interval to put it all into perspective on how many years it actually takes to acquire the weapons and equipment. Given a variety of factors such as power outages, work, leisure and work travel, school, forgetting, taking a break, boredom from repitition, and life events can all become reasons for not being able to login on a daily basis, I took them into account based upon average days a week played. I want to note beforehand that equipment includes the syandana and armor set and I grouped them with weapons because DE is grouping them with weapons. All the calculations are in the spoilers so as to not take up as much space. Current 50/200 Day Interval Category System Spoiler About 52 weeks in year, so calculation for how many days a year for average days a week able to log in (other than a full week) is as follows: 52 weeks × 6 days logged-in a week = 312 days logged-in a year | 52 × 5 = 260 | 52 × 4 = 208 | 52 × 3 = 156 | 52 × 2 = 104 days 1100 login days is how long it will take to acquire the weapons and equipment under the system in this thread. 1100 login days required ÷ 312 days logged in a year = 3.526 years required 1100 ÷ 260 = 4.231 years | 1100 ÷ 208 = 5.288 | 1100 ÷ 156 = 7.051 | 1100 ÷ 104 = 10.577 years For those who login on average 6 days/week, it will take them more than 3.5 years to earn the current weapons and equipment. For 5 days/week it is 4 years and under 3 months, 4/week is 5 years and over 3 months, 3/week is 7 years and under 1 month, and for the weekend gamer (2 days/week) it will be over 10.5 years. For average gamer (3-5 days a week) it will likely take 4 to 5 years or longer to receive the current weapons and equipment. I believe this where the problem with time is in the current login system for many as expressed in this thread. Now for some of the other proposed systems. Proposed Simple 50 Day Any Choice Interval System This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics. Spoiler The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods as part of the login, so 10 items in total. 10 items × 50 login days required for each = 500 login days required for the items The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 1100 with 500. 500 ÷ 312 = 1.603 years | 500 ÷ 260 = 1.923 | 500 ÷ 208 = 2.404 | 500 ÷ 156 = 3.205 | 500 ÷ 104 = 4.808 years For those who login on average 6 days/week it will take over 1 year and 7 months. For 5/week it will take just less than 2 years, 4/week over 2 years and 4 months, 3/week under 3 years and 3 months, and for weekend gamers it will take almost 5 years. I will let you make your own interpretation from this. The next calculation removes the prime mods since some people consider them unnecessary. This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics. Spoiler The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total. 6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300. 300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 208 = 1.442 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.923 | 300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years This was essentially the same calculation as before minus the time it would take to acquire the prime mods as well. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons and equipment only. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. Seems like it will still take 1-2 years or longer for the average gamer to acquire the weapons and equipment. Switching to another proposed system of 30 days instead of 50 next. Proposed 30 Day Interval Category System Spoiler The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. We need to figure out how many milestones there are under the current system first. 1100 ÷ 50 = 22 milestones 22 milestones × 30 days each = 660 days in total to acquire the weapons and equipment under a 30 day interval instead of 50 The same calculation proceeds here as in the first calculation, but replace 1100 with 660. 660 ÷ 312 = 2.115 years | 660 ÷ 260 = 2.538 | 660 ÷ 208 = 3.173 | 660÷ 156 = 4.231 | 660 ÷ 104 = 6.346 years This one is most similar to the realistic potential when hearing it takes 2-3 years to receive the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 days/week it takes a little over 2 years. For 5/week it is just over 2.5 years, 4/week over 3 years and 2 months, 3/week under 4 years and 3 months, and for the weekend gamer it takes over 6 years and 4 months. One benefit is you'll acquire the prime mods and the cosmetics during this time. On the other hand, it still suffers from it potentially taking more than 3 years for the average gamer like the current system. The next two calculations are the same iterations as above, but with 30 day milestones instead of 50. Proposed Simple 30 Day Any Choice Interval System This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics. Spoiler The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods, so 10 items in total. 6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300. 300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 208 = 1.442 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.923 | 300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years This is exactly the same amount of time for each average logins per a week as the 50 day interval any choice when taking into account only weapons and equipment. What's the difference then? This includes the four prime mods as part of the amount of logins required. I will repeat what I wrote there here for convience. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons, equipment, and prime mods. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics Spoiler The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total. 6 items × 30 login days required for each = 180 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 300 with 180. 180 ÷ 312 = 0.577 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 0.692 | 300 ÷ 208 = 0.865 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 104 = 1.731 years This calculation reveals some of the pros and cons and I will discuss them after. It is important to note not everyone would only pursue the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 login days a week, it will take more than 7 months to only acquire the weapons and equipment. For 5/week it will take over 8 months, 4/week over 10 months, 3/week under 1 year and 2 months, and for the weekend gamer it will take under 1 year and 9 months when only pursuing the weapons and equipment (no prime mods and other cosmetics). This has the strongest argument of the mentioned login systems for the weekend gamer as it gives them the most reasonable amount of time of 2-3 years to acquire the primary gameplay elements (weapons, equipment, and prime mods) from the login system. It is still a long time, but nowhere near the 10+ years it would currently take. It also has strong arguments for the average or recreational gamer as it will still take 2-3 years to acquire everything from the login system, but gives more choice to the user of what to acquire sooner. However, this does remove "login prestige" (how this ever came to be more of a bragging right than both hours played and how long ago you began playing I will not understand) as it gives a higher ratio incentive to play than to login as compared to before. On the other hand, the vets still have their prestige of already having most if not all of the items already plus their knowledge and experience over new players, which is not disappearing with any change to the login system. Regardles, the primary thing to take with this system is that you are less chained to the compulsion of needing to login everyday to have a chance at using the items locked within the login system. Personally, I have no attachment to these system since locking gameplay elements behind login count is a terrible incentive to actually play the game. I'd rather they be as part of the number of real years you've been around (versus the current login years), a part of a mastery rank milestone, or hours played. This way the incentive is to remain actively playing versus actively logging-in. It still gives prestige to those who care so much about such. It rewards learning and gaining experience through playing. I don't think in-game challenges or those challenges giving tokens as a catch-up reward are a geat idea either since it leads to another compulsion with a different appearance and complicates the system further. Plus, do we really want yet another base currency when we already have 4 (credits, platinum, reputation, and focus). The game will become even more confusing and overwhelming for new players than it already is. Let me know if I made any mistakes in calculations or other things, so I can correct it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Am I the only one who is totally against this new system. I feel like DE is trying to please all them new players and totally pissing on all vets. Name One thing that DE did for vets only... Used to be this login rewards (not the best but it was a thing) so if u see a guy with Sigma and Octantis - u like oh okay. Now u r like meh. DE when are you Really gonna start appreciating vets and rewarding them for supporting this game for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 2018-08-21 at 12:38 PM, Kaotyke said: No matter what they do. Keep it... Change it... Upgrate it... People will complain. Always. No matter what we do or say. DE will not listen and do whatever they wanna do. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, _junguler said: at this point there is no right answer left for this problem, no matter what they do some portion of the community is going to be displeased. but that's what you get by ignoring a problem for almost 3 years ... The irony is that when they launched the 1.0 login reward system they upset the veterans by not honoring their previous time played, yet now they don't want to upset the vets who have spent nearly 3 years logging in. Why the double standard now? At this point the system is awful as it locks players out of important content like primed mods and weapons that count towards mastery. Leave the cosmetics behind a huge time-wall if needed but enough with locking players out of content based on availability instead of total hours, missions completed, enemies killed, MR, or any other stat that actually measures how much you play the game. Also, consider a player that can only play on weekends. To get their first primed mod will take them over a year. That's not an incentive, that's a punishment. Stop punishing players that spend a significant amount of time actually playing just because they can't login every day just to pad your player numbers (which don't even matter on PS4 or Xbox). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)RobertoRodri Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Let's make the system scale better. They gonna get morphics anyways. D.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 This is just wrong on so many levels, and it has nothing to do with the "shineys" and everything to do with players who have dedicated their time to your game. I'm not dismissing the fact that simply logging in takes no skill, to get that little arguement out of the way before it's beaten like a dead horse again. When this system was implemented, players saw how it worked and went, "ok, we do this, we get this reward" - and that's what they did - for YEARS. These are players who have supported the game - for YEARS. Most people who have done this for YEARS have the mission hours to match. Enter 2017/18. People rush literally everything, hit top rank in a few months and then are upset they can't have something that someone else put 800/900/1000 days into getting and BAM - they get spoon fed. Again. Total lack of consideration or respect shown for anyone who did what was set out in front of them to earn said rewards before. Nothing is being spoon fed to THOSE older players to show, hey these people dedicated their time to us. Nope, just spoon fed to people who have rushed your game in their drive to have "everything" ASAP. It honestly feels like nothing anyone put in before the PoE invasion of players matters. It feels like only the new wave of players get your consideration in anything. The loudest ones. Nerf this Nerf that booo I cant get the best killrate every single time cause this person who spent thousands of hours to mod everything well kills stuff I cant kill with my broken mods after 14 days. Just one fine example of what happens on a regular basis now. It needs to stop. People with mission hours, and time spent supporting your work NEED your consideration. Please. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, (PS4)creativedsign said: Am I the only one who is totally against this new system. I feel like DE is trying to please all them new players and totally pissing on all vets. Name One thing that DE did for vets only... Used to be this login rewards (not the best but it was a thing) so if u see a guy with Sigma and Octantis - u like oh okay. Now u r like meh. DE when are you Really gonna start appreciating vets and rewarding them for supporting this game for years. Actually if you were a real vet then the entire login system would still upset you since you lost all that time you played prior to it being added since DE gave you nothing for that time. Don't tell me you weren't around back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunder Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Information regarding my perspective. Master Founder MR25 Mostly caught up with login days (Getting that armour soon) Major complains by the community Takes too long to get all the login rewards (daunting to new players, weekend players, those not dedicated enough to the system) People caught up with logins feel the time invested would be for nothing if everyone got stuff too easily DE's provided change WOULD ease up the wait for login rewards while still keeping some folks feeling that their collection of all items (sigils, equipment, weapons, mods) is exclusive for their time invested. Even if quite a few people just login/alt-f4/login/alt-f4/repeat. One problem however is to get all 3 weapons...is gonna take 500 days. At least. So the time-gate is still there. Logging in daily --even if just Alt-F4'ing afterwards, is still kind of a daily chore that if you miss a day? It feels like you're being left behind. Spoiler I don't typically jump on the Youtube partner bandwagon but user, "Shy" put it best I feel. The milestone rewards should just go. Implement them into the game some other way. I know DE feels as though this is a way to get players to pop on once a day, maybe while they're doing that they check alerts or the sortie and play for a bit. But in the same way that Gabe Newell of Valve/Steam sees pirates, I think DE could see their player-base. He states that piracy is likely a result of bad service. That people will pirate games out of convenience and the like. Better service would equal actual paying customers. A more efficient system that would make pirating less convenient and more of a hassle. In regards to DE....they're a great company with awesome people. They don't need some gimmick like a daily login to keep players coming back once a day. Specially with how much they've grown. If it's that much of an issue keeping players coming back? Then maybe DE needs to up their service to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 7 hours ago, JJames141 said: And yet, as a system, it fails at doing so because players will always be looking ahead at the new stuff that is going to be added as the next reward. I personally remember Sigma and Octantis being revealed and being excited at first, only to realise I had no point to be excited as it was over 600 days away and so wouldn't be getting it for roughly 2 years, and I've still not got it now as I'm just about to hit Zenith. The new system does nothing to help shorten the already ridiculous time gap between new players, those like myself in the middle of the track, and those at the very end of it, which is the biggest issue with the current system. If the new login system comes sooner than that, then you will get sigma and ocantis by just selecting it in the weapon login milestone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissingOne Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Thank you so much for not switching the weapon/mod reward intervals. I am almost at 300 and was thinking I may need to stop logging in or I would have to wait for day 500 to get primed vigor. I really like the changes as this allows newer players to pick want they need for builds while still making only long-term players have all the rewards. The scaling rewards also make the daily non-boost login rewards relevant for older players. I have been playing off and on since 2013 so I am not one of the high login day players, so I appreciate not feeling like I will never be able to get the newest drop(if its important to me) as the list continues to grow. The current state of changes discussed respects both old and new players in my opinion and I appreciate that consideration. Keep up the great work and thank you for listening to constructive feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NemoOceansoul Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 hour ago, (XB1)ErraticNeighbor said: One thing lacking from this workshop is the math related to current login system and some proposed ones throughout this thread. I decided to calculate it out for the current 50 day interval and proposed 30 day interval to put it all into perspective on how many years it actually takes to acquire the weapons and equipment. Given a variety of factors such as power outages, work, leisure and work travel, school, forgetting, taking a break, boredom from repitition, and life events can all become reasons for not being able to login on a daily basis, I took them into account based upon average days a week played. I want to note beforehand that equipment includes the syandana and armor set and I grouped them with weapons because DE is grouping them with weapons. All the calculations are in the spoilers so as to not take up as much space. Current 50/200 Day Interval Category System Reveal hidden contents About 52 weeks in year, so calculation for how many days a year for average days a week able to log in (other than a full week) is as follows: 52 weeks × 6 days logged-in a week = 312 days logged-in a year | 52 × 5 = 260 | 52 × 4 = 208 | 52 × 3 = 156 | 52 × 2 = 104 days 1100 login days is how long it will take to acquire the weapons and equipment under the system in this thread. 1100 login days required ÷ 312 days logged in a year = 3.526 years required 1100 ÷ 260 = 4.231 years | 1100 ÷ 208 = 5.288 | 1100 ÷ 156 = 7.051 | 1100 ÷ 104 = 10.577 years For those who login on average 6 days/week, it will take them more than 3.5 years to earn the current weapons and equipment. For 5 days/week it is 4 years and under 3 months, 4/week is 5 years and over 3 months, 3/week is 7 years and under 1 month, and for the weekend gamer (2 days/week) it will be over 10.5 years. For average gamer (3-5 days a week) it will likely take 4 to 5 years or longer to receive the current weapons and equipment. I believe this where the problem with time is in the current login system for many as expressed in this thread. Now for some of the other proposed systems. Proposed Simple 50 Day Any Choice Interval System This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics. Reveal hidden contents The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods as part of the login, so 10 items in total. 10 items × 50 login days required for each = 500 login days required for the items The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 1100 with 500. 500 ÷ 312 = 1.603 years | 500 ÷ 260 = 1.923 | 500 ÷ 208 = 2.404 | 500 ÷ 156 = 3.205 | 500 ÷ 104 = 4.808 years For those who login on average 6 days/week it will take over 1 year and 7 months. For 5/week it will take just less than 2 years, 4/week over 2 years and 4 months, 3/week under 3 years and 3 months, and for weekend gamers it will take almost 5 years. I will let you make your own interpretation from this. The next calculation removes the prime mods since some people consider them unnecessary. This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics. Reveal hidden contents The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total. 6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300. 300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 208 = 1.442 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.923 | 300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years This was essentially the same calculation as before minus the time it would take to acquire the prime mods as well. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons and equipment only. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. Seems like it will still take 1-2 years or longer for the average gamer to acquire the weapons and equipment. Switching to another proposed system of 30 days instead of 50 next. Proposed 30 Day Interval Category System Reveal hidden contents The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. We need to figure out how many milestones there are under the current system first. 1100 ÷ 50 = 22 milestones 22 milestones × 30 days each = 660 days in total to acquire the weapons and equipment under a 30 day interval instead of 50 The same calculation proceeds here as in the first calculation, but replace 1100 with 660. 660 ÷ 312 = 2.115 years | 660 ÷ 260 = 2.538 | 660 ÷ 208 = 3.173 | 660÷ 156 = 4.231 | 660 ÷ 104 = 6.346 years This one is most similar to the realistic potential when hearing it takes 2-3 years to receive the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 days/week it takes a little over 2 years. For 5/week it is just over 2.5 years, 4/week over 3 years and 2 months, 3/week under 4 years and 3 months, and for the weekend gamer it takes over 6 years and 4 months. One benefit is you'll acquire the prime mods and the cosmetics during this time. On the other hand, it still suffers from it potentially taking more than 3 years for the average gamer like the current system. The next two calculations are the same iterations as above, but with 30 day milestones instead of 50. Proposed Simple 30 Day Any Choice Interval System This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics. Reveal hidden contents The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods, so 10 items in total. 6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300. 300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 208 = 1.442 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.923 | 300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years This is exactly the same amount of time for each average logins per a week as the 50 day interval any choice when taking into account only weapons and equipment. What's the difference then? This includes the four prime mods as part of the amount of logins required. I will repeat what I wrote there here for convience. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons, equipment, and prime mods. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics Reveal hidden contents The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total. 6 items × 30 login days required for each = 180 login days required for the weapons and equipment The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 300 with 180. 180 ÷ 312 = 0.577 years | 300 ÷ 260 = 0.692 | 300 ÷ 208 = 0.865 | 300 ÷ 156 = 1.154 | 300 ÷ 104 = 1.731 years This calculation reveals some of the pros and cons and I will discuss them after. It is important to note not everyone would only pursue the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 login days a week, it will take more than 7 months to only acquire the weapons and equipment. For 5/week it will take over 8 months, 4/week over 10 months, 3/week under 1 year and 2 months, and for the weekend gamer it will take under 1 year and 9 months when only pursuing the weapons and equipment (no prime mods and other cosmetics). This has the strongest argument of the mentioned login systems for the weekend gamer as it gives them the most reasonable amount of time of 2-3 years to acquire the primary gameplay elements (weapons, equipment, and prime mods) from the login system. It is still a long time, but nowhere near the 10+ years it would currently take. It also has strong arguments for the average or recreational gamer as it will still take 2-3 years to acquire everything from the login system, but gives more choice to the user of what to acquire sooner. However, this does remove "login prestige" (how this ever came to be more of a bragging right than both hours played and how long ago you began playing I will not understand) as it gives a higher ratio incentive to play than to login as compared to before. On the other hand, the vets still have their prestige of already having most if not all of the items already plus their knowledge and experience over new players, which is not disappearing with any change to the login system. Regardles, the primary thing to take with this system is that you are less chained to the compulsion of needing to login everyday to have a chance at using the items locked within the login system. Personally, I have no attachment to these system since locking gameplay elements behind login count is a terrible incentive to actually play the game. I'd rather they be as part of the number of real years you've been around (versus the current login years), a part of a mastery rank milestone, or hours played. This way the incentive is to remain actively playing versus actively logging-in. It still gives prestige to those who care so much about such. It rewards learning and gaining experience through playing. I don't think in-game challenges or those challenges giving tokens as a catch-up reward are a geat idea either since it leads to another compulsion with a different appearance and complicates the system further. Plus, do we really want yet another base currency when we already have 4 (credits, platinum, reputation, and focus). The game will become even more confusing and overwhelming for new players than it already is. Let me know if I made any mistakes in calculations or other things, so I can correct it. I like this. Im what can be called a weekend warrior type of player. I play when i have time, some weeks i play 6 days a week. some weeks i dont even log out. others i dont have the oppurtunity to even touch the computer. Right now, i started being able to play again as of saturday, i havent played since the day plains of eidolon dropped because my computer fried (lightning struck house) as of tommorow ill be hitting day 350. My account has been active since about 6 months before the current login system. My major problem is honestly all i care for currently is the primed mods first the weapons 2nd. Cosmetics i couldnt give a **** about. I already know i cant ever catch up to the current login days. That doesnt worry me but the fact that i have to wait effectively what is it now? 150 days (correct me if im wrong) before i can choose between the primed mods, all the while getting effectively useless junk. (Im rolling in millions of resources/credits/endo, besides mutagen samples, rip 1 man clans ='( ) #*!% i have nearly 8000 cyan ayatan stars that i can put into sculptures (when/if i find 1) 3k oranges. So really getting resources/appearance junk at the moment is not really something i honestly care about. My level of "fashion frame" is a nearly all black save energy and accent color valkyr prime with a war stuck through the back like in 2nd dream. (I like to say the stalker stabbed me, but couldnt get his sword back out in time) (Warning incoming mildly angry rant! If you dont want to have your feelings hurt: go grab a cookie and scroll on past) To those "butthurt" /s "veterans" complaining about "exclusivity because they hand cuffed themselves to the computer" please. Grow up. Seriously. Your trying to act entitled to something and being self centered. Okay so you logged in every day ever. Want a cookie? Because if you honestly have a problem with the fact the devs arent catering to ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to you or that you feel somehow wronged by a games developers because you decided to become truly ocd and just login just to get things (that, lets be honest how many times are you actually going to be using say the azima, or that first sigil?). If your not playing warframe to just have fun, and instead view your login count as a chore that you must complete every day at all costs is honestly toxic to the game. Especially if you believe that as a so called "veteran" you are entitled to tell DE what to do with their own game. (Rant over, welcome back enjoy your cookie? =D ) That being said they do want our opinions. So heres my opinion/ideas: 1) allow any line of rewards to be chosen mods, weapons, cosmetics etc. Let the players make the choice of what they want to work their way towards. For weapons a possible balance to their power could be a minimum MR possibly at MR 5, 6 or 7. Not too late, but not too early. Likely just after a new player beats 2nd dream. 2) a way to accelerate the login counter in game. Perhaps a rare (2.5% chance?) reward for sorties which adds +1 day to the counter. Unless they are within a specific range of the last login reward possible. It stays in the inventory until used on login (i.e. login reward is gotten, they click a button that consumes one of these items they get the next days login.) 3) no trading. Please. This would just be a bad idea all around. 4) using the warframe app counts as logins if that account hasnt logged in within the last 24 hours. Otherwise what is the real use of the app? (Besides ya know sending out your fleet of extractors to grind resources while your unable to login) 5) for those who are inactive for a long period of time, temporarily accelerate the number of login bonuses they get per day proportional to how long they were gone. With a max acceleration equal to half the days they were not logging in. I.e. player hasnt played for 30 days: they get 2 "logins" a day for the next 14 or so days. If they miss a year they get 7 "logins" for the next 51 or so days. These accelerations carry over if they login for say 5 days and then stop for say another week. But otherwise they must be relatively active in order to keep their acceleration. Ill let you figure out the exact numbers. But basically this allows those coming back after unforseen circumstances that kept them from logging in for a period of time to catch back up to some extent. Alternate: grant returning players a number of the tokens as suggested by suggestion 2) of this post. 6) in addition because this will likely make alot of players happy: on the next login after this update allow players to choose which line they are on. I.e. player is at 415 days. When they login they get the choice of what would be a valid day 450 reward, just they "start" that line 15 days in. Finally 7) for the fourth category: a permanent resource blueprint for the rarer resources that cost more in resources than a single use version of that blueprint (if it were to exist) I.e. a permanent forma blueprint would require 1.5x~3x the cost of a single use forma blueprint. Not outright negating the benefit of a normal single use, but still there if needed. Or perhaps a legendary core(s) as the reward for those 50 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)WeeMalk5 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I foresee venus coveted with a carpet of gas emitting discs. The glowing sea 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)supernova_girlie Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 I think the easiest compromise would be to cut the requirements for the mods and the weapons in half. I'm not so radical that I don't see how steep are the current requirements. I love the idea of armors and perhaps skins being major log-in rewards beyond day 1000. I know this isn't a wishlist thread, but please consider for day 1500 a metallic color palette which will make whatever skin (prime, tennogen, generic, etc) look metallic in whichever color is chosen. I don't mean to be ungrateful, but Primed Sure Footed at day 900?! This is like reading War and Peace all the way to the next-to-last chapter (before the 1st Epilogue) and finding out Tolstoy said " the heck with this, let me ramble about military uniforms." It's not a bad mod, it just doesn't seem to measure up with the required time to get it. Why not a prime landing craft skin,a full set of Arcane Energize ( 😄 ), a special color palette that turns us invisible? I can dream... Anyways, I may complain but I still love you DE and my fellow Tenno! When I stop complaining it means I've gone on a wild goose chase to summon the spirit of Hawking's IQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 37 minutes ago, NemoOceansoul said: To those "butthurt" /s "veterans" complaining about "exclusivity because they hand cuffed themselves to the computer" please. Grow up. Seriously. Your trying to act entitled to something and being self centered. Okay so you logged in every day ever. Want a cookie? Because if you honestly have a problem with the fact the devs arent catering to ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to you or that you feel somehow wronged by a games developers because you decided to become truly ocd and just login just to get things (that, lets be honest how many times are you actually going to be using say the azima, or that first sigil?). If your not playing warframe to just have fun, and instead view your login count as a chore that you must complete every day at all costs is honestly toxic to the game. Especially if you believe that as a so called "veteran" you are entitled to tell DE what to do with their own game. (Rant over, welcome back enjoy your cookie? =D ) I especially enjoy things like this, where opinions are wanted but any veterans opinions are immediately "complaints" and "entitlements" and "exclusivity". I've been in and out of chemo for 2 years, most definitely not chained to a computer and I still found time to login most days. Ive missed many weeks though when sick, and still manage to be over 800. Many people are pissed not so much because of the trinkets, but because their time and support for a game they have loved for years is constantly and consistently being spat on like it doesn't even matter, most especially since PoE. I find your tone just insulting tbh. Your opinion is apparently just fine but anything outside of the loud whinings for everything ASAP counts as complaining? Okey Dokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaotyke Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 3 hours ago, (PS4)creativedsign said: No matter what we do or say. DE will not listen and do whatever they wanna do. Always. Its almost like they own the game isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSG501 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 9 hours ago, Chronozilla said: Does logging in really count as playing though?, i can imagine most people just start up the game to get their counter up and close it afterwards, that doesn't really confer as loyalty to me. player count is important, but if everybody logging in are just slaves to the system, is that really okay? I respect that you guys at 900+ days want everybody else to sit through the wait like you did, but a system like that is extremely disheartening to new players, or old players that ended up missing some days. The functional items should be readily available without waiting for years, whether that be through moving them somewhere else than the login system or adding a catch-up mechanic to the system. The cosmetics can stay at high numbers though, they don't contribute to actual gameplay and i think everybody closing in on them or already possessing them would appreciate being able to show off that kind of long term non-essential prestige. Well considering how steam measures the game time based on how much time it's been open versus DE measuring how much you've played I'd say yes it does play an important role at least on steam. So what would you replace those missing items with between 0-800 days (note I actually want the cosmetics to stay where they are purely for the reason they took so long to get), not to mention the compensation we'd (well I know I would and forma/riven mods wouldn't cut it) be expecting at higher login counts if things were changed so the time spent logging in daily is basically wasted and for no reason when a newbie can get it after a few hours farming or a quick purchase of some plat... If you leave the cosmetics at 800 and 1000 days you'd then get people going, why do I need to wait 800 days and 1000 days to get said cosmetics when I can get the other items from reward table without any effort. Lets be realistic, if they change the system so that 'it's easy to get the items' to satisfy the 'instant gratification' playerbase they're basically screwing over the people who have spent the time getting them and that won't go down well imo. The changes being proposed, while I don't see any reason for them, is a 'fair' compromise for those that have had no other option but to sit through in some cases nearly 1000 days to get their items. I'd be fine with 'login rewards' being changed so that the major rewards are given out at 'time played' intervals (based on DE time in game,not steam) as long as they're at high enough numbers to respect the '1000' days some of us have spent working on login rewards, but DE aren't going to do that sort of rework (which ironically would fix the issue with original players who had a break and came back and now have missing days) and I'd expect DE to screw the pooch and make it so the hours needed to get the items were focused at newbies anyway because that seems to be their focus these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plznohurtme Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Coming back to Warframe after a couple of years and seeing this stupid system was almost enough to make me reconsider. A gear wall that cannot be surpassed except for logins is effectively punishing people for not logging in. I had played the game from beta for a few years, but clearly I picked the wrong few years according to this system. Cosmetics and other non gameplay effecting things should certainly be behind the login wall, but to have exclusive weapons and mods is just dumb. There should be an alternative means to acquiring the stuff which has a direct effect on actually playing the game...or really just do away with that aspect of the login system. I am unaware of any other game which blocks players from accessing parts of the game for years and there's a very good reason for that (I'd say it's obvious, but maybe it isn't to DE): it's a bad idea that doesn't help anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 5 hours ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said: Actually if you were a real vet then the entire login system would still upset you since you lost all that time you played prior to it being added since DE gave you nothing for that time. Don't tell me you weren't around back then? I'm a PS4 vet so we didn't lose much since system lunched a bit later then PC ... I'm almost at 950 logins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sahansral Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 vor 36 Minuten schrieb plznohurtme: Coming back to Warframe after a couple of years and seeing this stupid system was almost enough to make me reconsider. A gear wall that cannot be surpassed except for logins is effectively punishing people for not logging in. I had played the game from beta for a few years, but clearly I picked the wrong few years according to this system. Cosmetics and other non gameplay effecting things should certainly be behind the login wall, but to have exclusive weapons and mods is just dumb. There should be an alternative means to acquiring the stuff which has a direct effect on actually playing the game...or really just do away with that aspect of the login system. I am unaware of any other game which blocks players from accessing parts of the game for years and there's a very good reason for that (I'd say it's obvious, but maybe it isn't to DE): it's a bad idea that doesn't help anyone. We are talking about 0.6% of the available weapons and that percentage is shrinking... Also how many games have items that latecomers have no chance to get at all? Here at least you can get these items Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Kaotyke said: Its almost like they own the game isnt it? Its almost like they dont need players to make money right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighteyezzz Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 minute ago, (PS4)creativedsign said: Its almost like they dont need players to make money right? I'm pretty sure the games more popular than it has ever been, so apparently they're doing something right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Sahansral said: We are talking about 0.6% of the available weapons and that percentage is shrinking... Also how many games have items that latecomers have no chance to get at all? Here at least you can get these items I have to agree. There should be vet exclusive weapons, something for new players to be motivated and keep on playing the game. Why are we trying to give everything to everyone only because they r whining that they want it asap. This just doesn't make sense plus I understand if we would be taking about Amazing weapons. Azima - blah, zenistar - bad melee weapon and only semi useful as CC but still we got better melee weapons not locked behind logins, zenith - good weapon but we got better primaries, sigma - special mechanic is broken, targeting is off and most of the time won't even stun An enemy, dmg is blah. And primed mods ... Most of them sucks, only two of them is semi useful, but we r talking about primed - so not new player friendly since u need around what 30-40k endo to level that sucker up for a super small buff. And again 90% of the time we r fighting Lil 20-40 enemies, and any and all of our weapons can handle that... Pointless to run around with weapons who can one shot lvl 150 enemy coz we don't have content for it ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)creativedsign Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Nighteyezzz said: I'm pretty sure the games more popular than it has ever been, so apparently they're doing something right Considering that 80% of my gamer friends never even heard of it. 10% played it for a week and quit coz they couldn't get into it coz de is not providing enough beginner player guidance, and 10% who still playing are unhappy with they direction. Sure! New games which are being release gaining a larger player base in months then WF after all this years so yeah... Sure let me "agree" with u. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighteyezzz Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 1 minute ago, (PS4)creativedsign said: Considering that 80% of my gamer friends never even heard of it. 10% played it for a week and quit coz they couldn't get into it coz de is not providing enough beginner player guidance, and 10% who still playing are unhappy with they direction. Sure! New games which are being release gaining a larger player base in months then WF after all this years so yeah... Sure let me "agree" with u. If you look at the data on Steam it is consistently in the top 10 and average quarterly numbers always growing. Your group of friends isn't a good sample size Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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