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[DE]Rebecca

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1) RANT

Personally I don't see how this changes the current problem, someone wanting to obtain everything that starts playing today is 1000 days behind, will always be 1000 days behind and will so remain forever there's no gain on the current login leaders.

You originally promised (to my understanding) that every 50 days you get to choose from all the rewards, sure your going to blow through better content getting weapons and mods first and then after pick from your favourite reactor/sigil pack cause everyone knows at 1000 days I needs them reactors. But new players who are quick on the ball get 3 weapons and 4 mods in 350 days or 1 year, though likely they'll waste at least the first one so lets say 400 days.

2) HORRIBLE UNFORSEEN (by you) CONDEQUENCES

This new system is bullS#&$ and badly thought out, allow weapons and mods to be traded? You know who many fake accounts are going to get rolled by scumbags for plat farming? 

3) What you should probably do.

Either stop releasing content, maybe that's planned but it wasn't mentioned or keep releasing content at 50 day intervals but make it so players can collect on them once a month (30 days). That way new players are catching old by 3 rewards per year, seeing the gap drop feeling like they're getting somewhere. Hey even old players like me that are a few weeks/months... years behind due to unforeseen incidents or taking breaks from the game can get back to pole position but for god sake do not make rewards tradable. 

 

PS Regarding that comment on reactors, please make a 1 time blueprint from some syndicate that allows a reactor to be converted into a catalyst for not 100k standing. 

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1) RANT

Personally I don't see how this changes the current problem, someone wanting to obtain everything that starts playing today is 1000 days behind, will always be 1000 days behind and will so remain forever there's no gain on the current login leaders.

You originally promised (to my understanding) that every 50 days you get to choose from all the rewards, sure your going to blow through better content getting weapons and mods first and then after pick from your favourite reactor/sigil pack cause everyone knows at 1000 days I needs them reactors. But new players who are quick on the ball get 3 weapons and 4 mods in 350 days or 1 year, though likely they'll waste at least the first one so lets say 400 days.

2) HORRIBLE UNFORSEEN (by you) CONDEQUENCES

This new system is bS and badly thought out, allow weapons and mods to be traded? You know who many fake accounts are going to get rolled by scumbags for plat farming? 

3) What you should probably do.

Either stop releasing content, maybe that's planned but it wasn't mentioned or keep releasing content at 50 day intervals but make it so players can collect on them once a month (30 days). That way new players are catching old by 3 rewards per year, seeing the gap drop feeling like they're getting somewhere. Hey even old players like me that are a few weeks/months... years behind due to unforeseen incidents or taking breaks from the game can get back to pole position but for god sake do not make rewards tradable. 

 

PS Regarding that comment on reactors, please make a 1 time blueprint from some syndicate that allows a reactor to be converted into a catalyst for not 100k standing. 

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32 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

the point of login rewards is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam.

Does logging in really count as playing though?, i can imagine most people just start up the game to get their counter up and close it afterwards, that doesn't really confer as loyalty to me. player count is important, but if everybody logging in are just slaves to the system, is that really okay?

I respect that you guys at 900+ days want everybody else to sit through the wait like you did, but a system like that is extremely disheartening to new players, or old players that ended up missing some days. The functional items should be readily available without waiting for years, whether that be through moving them somewhere else than the login system or adding a catch-up mechanic to the system.

The cosmetics can stay at high numbers though, they don't contribute to actual gameplay and i think everybody closing in on them or already possessing them would appreciate being able to show off that kind of long term non-essential prestige.

 

Edited by Chronozilla
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100 day players are gonna get the best login weapon instantly. I do not agree with this system and the hand holding of new players. when will veterans have something just for them and nobody else? I feel unloved and ignored DE, why not throw people with certain intervals of login days a tiered exclusive cosmetic item? Maybe a Profile picture or Sigil that gets cooler the more days you logged in. That's just my opinion though because this is getting ridiculous...

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51 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

You still can build things with those mods, you just have to wait like everyone else who has come before you. 

I've waited for mine, those before me did too, I didn't have a problem with it because I didn't and still don't see those mods as essential.

DE should NEVER make login rewards available from the phone app, it would completely defeat the point of login rewards which is to get people logging into the game, which can basically increase their active player count for steam while the app can't do that.

Neither PS4 or Xbox have player counts that users can monitor on a regular basis so that argument only works for Steam, meaning that just like how Tennogen can be purchased with plat on consoles, major differences exist between platforms and logins serve no true purpose on consoles either. That is yet another example of why the entire login system is flawed.

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

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So, a suggestion that can(maybe) help to calm both sides on this tread:
Give a bonus based on the age of the account, ex:if you are over than a year, you have chance of a login bonus(that then decrease as you approach 1000, and or more picks on milestone days(1 year-2 mods and 1 weapons and other a blueprint of a login weapon; 2 years-3 mods/weapon/blueprint...)

Other is the token thing and again give it a bonus based on the age of your account

Lock some of it behind a MR wall, so it would not be to harsh on new players
maybe at every 8 MR ranks you gain a bonus to login too

Also, give us a special login on the anniversary of the account, making it count as a milestone so we can chose whenever we want 
 

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6 minutes ago, LupoDWolf said:

So, a suggestion that can(maybe) help to calm both sides on this tread:
Give a bonus based on the age of the account, ex:if you are over than a year, you have chance of a login bonus(that then decrease as you approach 1000, and or more picks on milestone days(1 year-2 mods and 1 weapons and other a blueprint of a login weapon; 2 years-3 mods/weapon/blueprint...)

Other is the token thing and again give it a bonus based on the age of your account

Lock some of it behind a MR wall, so it would not be to harsh on new players
 maybe at every 8 MR ranks you gain a bonus to login too

Also, give us a special login on the anniversary of the account, making it count as a milestone so we can chose whenever we want 
 

This I like, do this please DE!

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This system as described still sucks.

You're still pissing off the crazy-dedicated players like AGayGuyPlays who have bent over backwards to not miss a day since Login 1.0, by no longer acknowledging the time and effort they've put into logging in that many consecutive days. They do not want people who just started playing for ~2 months (cumulative logins, anyway) to be rewarded with the same things that it took them multiple years of religious adherence to your terrible 1.0 system to attain. If people can pick things like Lodestar items or the weapons, then there needs to be something granted to the utter masochists to distinguish them from people who got their "long-term dedication" items post-change. A sigil, an emblem, a mark on their profile, anything. You're burning these guys pretty hard for their RL sacrifices.

You're also pissing me off by continuing to ignore all the logins I had prior to Login 1.0 to this day. Whatever happened to all that time? Am I just not a veteran now? Oh, I'm sorry, my Founder's tag must have thrown everybody off. No, you see, I'm actually a MR 20+ newbie. I haven't rescheduled my whole life to revolve around logging into the game daily since Login 1.0, so just #*!% all that time it took to grind out almost every weapon and Warframe in the game, right? Right in the dumpster. Logins post-1.0 is all anyone cares about. Take me from the top-tier Endo rewards, and kick me back down to the lowest rung, because I had the audacity to grind everything out prior to Login 1.0.

This system doesn't #*!%ing fix anything for me, newbies, or anyone who have missed days. It's still a years-long grind to get the weapons, which is all anyone really cares about in the first place. Shackling myself to my computer is not fun. I've been there, done that, and I've got nothing to show for it. Why shackle myself to my computer now, when I'm still going to have to "prove myself" for another two years just to "catch up"? Login 2.0 doesn't actually help me, because it's still a tiered reward system that requires hundreds of daily logins to get the only items I care about out of the entire reward pool.

 

At this point, I've talked about it enough here and elsewhere, I don't even care anymore. I'm back to not caring about Zenistar or any of that other crap. I won't see it for years, and daily logins are not the metric by which I measure my veterancy anyway. Take away the exclusivity of the login rewards, or don't, it's not going to burn me and it's not going to help either. I thought chasing the login dragon was stupid in the first place, and that continues to be the case in Login 2.0... just with a lot of new salt pillars. You'll see me logging in when there's real content to play. Stapling on a new Endless mode, making the grind for weapons fractal, and flooding the Void are not exciting prospects. I'll be back for Fortuna, Railjack, and maybe The New War, if Sentient/Operator combat somehow becomes less garbage in the interim.

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1 hour ago, TheInfiniteDoom said:

This system as described still sucks.

You're still pissing off the crazy-dedicated players like AGayGuyPlays who have bent over backwards to not miss a day since Login 1.0, by no longer acknowledging the time and effort they've put into logging in that many consecutive days. They do not want people who just started playing for ~2 months (cumulative logins, anyway) to be rewarded with the same things that it took them multiple years of religious adherence to your terrible 1.0 system to attain. If people can pick things like Lodestar items or the weapons, then there needs to be something granted to the utter masochists to distinguish them from people who got their "long-term dedication" items post-change. A sigil, an emblem, a mark on their profile, anything. You're burning these guys pretty hard for their RL sacrifices.

You're also pissing me off by continuing to ignore all the logins I had prior to Login 1.0 to this day. Whatever happened to all that time? Am I just not a veteran now? Oh, I'm sorry, my Founder's tag must have thrown everybody off. No, you see, I'm actually a MR 20+ newbie. I haven't rescheduled my whole life to revolve around logging into the game daily since Login 1.0, so just #*!% all that time it took to grind out almost every weapon and Warframe in the game, right? Right in the dumpster. Logins post-1.0 is all anyone cares about. Take me from the top-tier Endo rewards, and kick me back down to the lowest rung, because I had the audacity to grind everything out prior to Login 1.0.

This system doesn't #*!%ing fix anything for me, newbies, or anyone who have missed days. It's still a years-long grind to get the weapons, which is all anyone really cares about in the first place. Shackling myself to my computer is not fun. I've been there, done that, and I've got nothing to show for it. Why shackle myself to my computer now, when I'm still going to have to "prove myself" for another two years just to "catch up"? Login 2.0 doesn't actually help me, because it's still a tiered reward system that requires hundreds of daily logins to get the only items I care about out of the entire reward pool.

 

At this point, I've talked about it enough here and elsewhere, I don't even care anymore. I'm back to not caring about Zenistar or any of that other crap. I won't see it for years, and daily logins are not the metric by which I measure my veterancy anyway. Take away the exclusivity of the login rewards, or don't, it's not going to burn me and it's not going to help either. I thought chasing the login dragon was stupid in the first place, and that continues to be the case in Login 2.0... just with a lot of new salt pillars. You'll see me logging in when there's real content to play. Stapling on a new Endless mode, making the grind for weapons fractal, and flooding the Void are not exciting prospects. I'll be back for Fortuna, Railjack, and maybe The New War, if Sentient/Operator combat somehow becomes less garbage in the interim.

Bravo.

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My questions is i have 40 more days until my next reward . If this update happen when i hit my next reward will it restart . Meaning i have wait another 100 days to get it. I'm hoping DE w you don't screw me over because i earn those days I log in.

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at this point there is no right answer left for this problem, no matter what they do some portion of the community is going to be displeased. but that's what you get by ignoring a problem for almost 3 years ...

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One thing lacking from this workshop is the math related to current login system and some proposed ones throughout this thread. I decided to calculate it out for the current 50 day interval and proposed 30 day interval to put it all into perspective on how many years it actually takes to acquire the weapons and equipment. Given a variety of factors such as power outages, work, leisure and work travel, school, forgetting, taking a break, boredom from repitition, and life events can all become reasons for not being able to login on a daily basis, I took them into account based upon average days a week played. I want to note beforehand that equipment includes the syandana and armor set and I grouped them with weapons because DE is grouping them with weapons. All the calculations are in the spoilers so as to not take up as much space.

Current 50/200 Day Interval Category System

Spoiler

About 52 weeks in year, so calculation for how many days a year for average days a week able to log in (other than a full week) is as follows:

52 weeks × 6 days logged-in a week = 312 days logged-in a year     |     52 × 5 = 260     |     52 × 4 = 208     |     52 × 3 = 156     |     52 × 2 = 104 days

1100 login days is how long it will take to acquire the weapons and equipment under the system in this thread.

1100 login days required ÷ 312 days logged in a year = 3.526 years required 

1100 ÷ 260 = 4.231 years     |     1100 ÷ 208 = 5.288     |     1100 ÷ 156 = 7.051     |     1100 ÷ 104 = 10.577 years

For those who login on average 6 days/week, it will take them more than 3.5 years to earn the current weapons and equipment. For 5 days/week it is 4 years and under 3 months, 4/week is 5 years and over 3 months, 3/week is 7 years and under 1 month, and for the weekend gamer (2 days/week) it will be over 10.5 years. For average gamer (3-5 days a week) it will likely take 4 to 5 years or longer to receive the current weapons and equipment. I believe this where the problem with time is in the current login system for many as expressed in this thread. Now for some of the other proposed systems.

Proposed Simple 50 Day Any Choice Interval System

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics.

Spoiler

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods as part of the login, so 10 items in total.

10 items × 50 login days required for each = 500 login days required for the items

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 1100 with 500.

500 ÷ 312 = 1.603 years     |     500 ÷ 260 = 1.923     |     500 ÷ 208 = 2.404     |     500 ÷ 156 = 3.205     |     500 ÷ 104 = 4.808 years

For those who login on average 6 days/week it will take over 1 year and 7 months. For 5/week it will take just less than 2 years, 4/week over 2 years and 4 months, 3/week under 3 years and 3 months, and for weekend gamers it will take almost 5 years. I will let you make your own interpretation from this. The next calculation removes the prime mods since some people consider them unnecessary.

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics.

Spoiler

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total.

6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300.

300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 208 = 1.442     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.923     |     300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years

This was essentially the same calculation as before minus the time it would take to acquire the prime mods as well. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons and equipment only. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. Seems like it will still take 1-2 years or longer for the average gamer to acquire the weapons and equipment. Switching to another proposed system of 30 days instead of 50 next.

Proposed 30 Day Interval Category System

Spoiler

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. We need to figure out how many milestones there are under the current system first.

1100 ÷ 50 = 22 milestones

22 milestones × 30 days each = 660 days in total to acquire the weapons and equipment under a 30 day interval instead of 50

The same calculation proceeds here as in the first calculation, but replace 1100 with 660.

660 ÷ 312 = 2.115 years     |     660 ÷ 260 = 2.538     |     660 ÷ 208 = 3.173     |     660÷ 156 = 4.231     |     660 ÷ 104 = 6.346 years

This one is most similar to the realistic potential when hearing it takes 2-3 years to receive the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 days/week it takes a little over 2 years. For 5/week it is just over 2.5 years, 4/week over 3 years and 2 months, 3/week under 4 years and 3 months, and for the weekend gamer it takes over 6 years and 4 months. One benefit is you'll acquire the prime mods and the cosmetics during this time. On the other hand, it still suffers from it potentially taking more than 3 years for the average gamer like the current system. The next two calculations are the same iterations as above, but with 30 day milestones instead of 50.

Proposed Simple 30 Day Any Choice Interval System

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics.

Spoiler

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods, so 10 items in total.

6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300.

300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 208 = 1.442     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.923     |     300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years

This is exactly the same amount of time for each average logins per a week as the 50 day interval any choice when taking into account only weapons and equipment. What's the difference then? This includes the four prime mods as part of the amount of logins required. I will repeat what I wrote there here for convience. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons, equipment, and prime mods. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years.

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics

Spoiler

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total.

6 items × 30 login days required for each = 180 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 300 with 180.

180 ÷ 312 = 0.577 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 0.692     |     300 ÷ 208 = 0.865     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 104 = 1.731 years

This calculation reveals some of the pros and cons and I will discuss them after. It is important to note not everyone would only pursue the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 login days a week, it will take more than 7 months to only acquire the weapons and equipment. For 5/week it will take over 8 months, 4/week over 10 months, 3/week under 1 year and 2 months, and for the weekend gamer it will take under 1 year and 9 months when only pursuing the weapons and equipment (no prime mods and other cosmetics).

This has the strongest argument of the mentioned login systems for the weekend gamer as it gives them the most reasonable amount of time of 2-3 years to acquire the primary gameplay elements (weapons, equipment, and prime mods) from the login system. It is still a long time, but nowhere near the 10+ years it would currently take. It also has strong arguments for the average or recreational gamer as it will still take 2-3 years to acquire everything from the login system, but gives more choice to the user of what to acquire sooner. However, this does remove "login prestige" (how this ever came to be more of a bragging right than both hours played and how long ago you began playing I will not understand) as it gives a higher ratio incentive to play than to login as compared to before. On the other hand, the vets still have their prestige of already having most if not all of the items already plus their knowledge and experience over new players, which is not disappearing with any change to the login system. Regardles, the primary thing to take with this system is that you are less chained to the compulsion of needing to login everyday to have a chance at using the items locked within the login system.

Personally, I have no attachment to these system since locking gameplay elements behind login count is a terrible incentive to actually play the game. I'd rather they be as part of the number of real years you've been around (versus the current login years), a part of a mastery rank milestone, or hours played. This way the incentive is to remain actively playing versus actively logging-in. It still gives prestige to those who care so much about such. It rewards learning and gaining experience through playing. I don't think in-game challenges or those challenges giving tokens as a catch-up reward are a geat idea either since it leads to another compulsion with a different appearance and complicates the system further. Plus, do we really want yet another base currency when we already have 4 (credits, platinum, reputation, and focus). The game will become even more confusing and overwhelming for new players than it already is.

Let me know if I made any mistakes in calculations or other things, so I can correct it.

Edited by (XB1)ErraticNeighbor
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Am I the only one who is totally against this new system. I feel like DE is trying to please all them new players and totally pissing on all vets. Name One thing that DE did for vets only... Used to be this login rewards (not the best but it was a thing) so if u see a guy with Sigma and Octantis - u like oh okay. Now u r like meh. DE when are you Really gonna start appreciating vets and rewarding them for supporting this game for years. 

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On 2018-08-21 at 12:38 PM, Kaotyke said:

No matter what they do. Keep it... Change it... Upgrate it...

People will complain. Always.

 

No matter what we do or say.

DE will not listen and do whatever they wanna do. Always. 

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1 hour ago, _junguler said:

at this point there is no right answer left for this problem, no matter what they do some portion of the community is going to be displeased. but that's what you get by ignoring a problem for almost 3 years ...

The irony is that when they launched the 1.0 login reward system they upset the veterans by not honoring their previous time played, yet now they don't want to upset the vets who have spent nearly 3 years logging in. Why the double standard now?

At this point the system is awful as it locks players out of important content like primed mods and weapons that count towards mastery. Leave the cosmetics behind a huge time-wall if needed but enough with locking players out of content based on availability instead of total hours, missions completed, enemies killed, MR, or any other stat that actually measures how much you play the game.

Also, consider a player that can only play on weekends. To get their first primed mod will take them over a year. That's not an incentive, that's a punishment. Stop punishing players that spend a significant amount of time actually playing just because they can't login every day just to pad your player numbers (which don't even matter on PS4 or Xbox).

Edited by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph
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This is just wrong on so many levels, and it has nothing to do with the "shineys" and everything to do with players who have dedicated their time to your game.

I'm not dismissing the fact that simply logging in takes no skill, to get that little arguement out of the way before it's beaten like a dead horse again.

When this system was implemented, players saw how it worked and went, "ok, we do this, we get this reward" - and that's what they did - for YEARS. These are players who have supported the game - for YEARS. Most people who have done this for YEARS have the mission hours to match.

Enter 2017/18. People rush literally everything, hit top rank in a few months and then are upset they can't have something that someone else put 800/900/1000 days into getting and BAM - they get spoon fed. Again. Total lack of consideration or respect shown for anyone who did what was set out in front of them to earn said rewards before.

Nothing is being spoon fed to THOSE older players to show, hey these people dedicated their time to us. Nope, just spoon fed to people who have rushed your game in their drive to have "everything" ASAP.

It honestly feels like nothing anyone put in before the PoE invasion of players matters. It feels like only the new wave of players get your consideration in anything. The loudest ones. Nerf this Nerf that booo I cant get the best killrate every single time cause this person who spent thousands of hours to mod everything well kills stuff I cant kill with my broken mods after 14 days. Just one fine example of what happens on a regular basis now.

It needs to stop. People with mission hours, and time spent supporting your work NEED your consideration. Please.

Cheers

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33 minutes ago, (PS4)creativedsign said:

Am I the only one who is totally against this new system. I feel like DE is trying to please all them new players and totally pissing on all vets. Name One thing that DE did for vets only... Used to be this login rewards (not the best but it was a thing) so if u see a guy with Sigma and Octantis - u like oh okay. Now u r like meh. DE when are you Really gonna start appreciating vets and rewarding them for supporting this game for years. 

Actually if you were a real vet then the entire login system would still upset you since you lost all that time you played prior to it being added since DE gave you nothing for that time. Don't tell me you weren't around back then?

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Information regarding my perspective.

  • Master Founder
  • MR25
  • Mostly caught up with login days (Getting that armour soon)

Major complains by the community

  • Takes too long to get all the login rewards (daunting to new players, weekend players, those not dedicated enough to the system)
  • People caught up with logins feel the time invested would be for nothing if everyone got stuff too easily

DE's provided change WOULD ease up the wait for login rewards while still keeping some folks feeling that their collection of all items (sigils, equipment, weapons, mods) is exclusive for their time invested. Even if quite a few people just login/alt-f4/login/alt-f4/repeat. One problem however is to get all 3 weapons...is gonna take 500 days. At least. So the time-gate is still there. Logging in daily --even if just Alt-F4'ing afterwards, is still kind of a daily chore that if you miss a day? It feels like you're being left behind.

Spoiler

 

I don't typically jump on the Youtube partner bandwagon but user, "Shy" put it best I feel.

The milestone rewards should just go. Implement them into the game some other way. I know DE feels as though this is a way to get players to pop on once a day, maybe while they're doing that they check alerts or the sortie and play for a bit. But in the same way that Gabe Newell of Valve/Steam sees pirates, I think DE could see their player-base. He states that piracy is likely a result of bad service. That people will pirate games out of convenience and the like. Better service would equal actual paying customers. A more efficient system that would make pirating less convenient and more of a hassle.

In regards to DE....they're a great company with awesome people. They don't need some gimmick like a daily login to keep players coming back once a day. Specially with how much they've grown. If it's that much of an issue keeping players coming back? Then maybe DE needs to up their service to do so.

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7 hours ago, JJames141 said:

And yet, as a system, it fails at doing so because players will always be looking ahead at the new stuff that is going to be added as the next reward. I personally remember Sigma and Octantis being revealed and being excited at first, only to realise I had no point to be excited as it was over 600 days away and so wouldn't be getting it for roughly 2 years, and I've still not got it now as I'm just about to hit Zenith. The new system does nothing to help shorten the already ridiculous time gap between new players, those like myself in the middle of the track, and those at the very end of it, which is the biggest issue with the current system. 

If the new login system comes sooner than that, then you will get sigma and ocantis by just selecting it in the weapon login milestone

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Thank you so much for not switching the weapon/mod reward intervals. I am almost at 300 and was thinking I may need to stop logging in or I would have to wait for day 500 to get primed vigor. I really like the changes as this allows newer players to pick want they need for builds while still making only long-term players have all the rewards. The scaling rewards also make the daily non-boost login rewards relevant for older players.

I have been playing off and on since 2013 so I am not one of the high login day players, so I appreciate not feeling like I will never be able to get the newest drop(if its important to me) as the list continues to grow. The current state of changes discussed respects both old and new players in my opinion and I appreciate that consideration.

Keep up the great work and thank you for listening to constructive feedback!

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1 hour ago, (XB1)ErraticNeighbor said:

One thing lacking from this workshop is the math related to current login system and some proposed ones throughout this thread. I decided to calculate it out for the current 50 day interval and proposed 30 day interval to put it all into perspective on how many years it actually takes to acquire the weapons and equipment. Given a variety of factors such as power outages, work, leisure and work travel, school, forgetting, taking a break, boredom from repitition, and life events can all become reasons for not being able to login on a daily basis, I took them into account based upon average days a week played. I want to note beforehand that equipment includes the syandana and armor set and I grouped them with weapons because DE is grouping them with weapons. All the calculations are in the spoilers so as to not take up as much space.

Current 50/200 Day Interval Category System

  Reveal hidden contents

About 52 weeks in year, so calculation for how many days a year for average days a week able to log in (other than a full week) is as follows:

52 weeks × 6 days logged-in a week = 312 days logged-in a year     |     52 × 5 = 260     |     52 × 4 = 208     |     52 × 3 = 156     |     52 × 2 = 104 days

1100 login days is how long it will take to acquire the weapons and equipment under the system in this thread.

1100 login days required ÷ 312 days logged in a year = 3.526 years required 

1100 ÷ 260 = 4.231 years     |     1100 ÷ 208 = 5.288     |     1100 ÷ 156 = 7.051     |     1100 ÷ 104 = 10.577 years

For those who login on average 6 days/week, it will take them more than 3.5 years to earn the current weapons and equipment. For 5 days/week it is 4 years and under 3 months, 4/week is 5 years and over 3 months, 3/week is 7 years and under 1 month, and for the weekend gamer (2 days/week) it will be over 10.5 years. For average gamer (3-5 days a week) it will likely take 4 to 5 years or longer to receive the current weapons and equipment. I believe this where the problem with time is in the current login system for many as expressed in this thread. Now for some of the other proposed systems.

Proposed Simple 50 Day Any Choice Interval System

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics.

  Reveal hidden contents

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods as part of the login, so 10 items in total.

10 items × 50 login days required for each = 500 login days required for the items

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 1100 with 500.

500 ÷ 312 = 1.603 years     |     500 ÷ 260 = 1.923     |     500 ÷ 208 = 2.404     |     500 ÷ 156 = 3.205     |     500 ÷ 104 = 4.808 years

For those who login on average 6 days/week it will take over 1 year and 7 months. For 5/week it will take just less than 2 years, 4/week over 2 years and 4 months, 3/week under 3 years and 3 months, and for weekend gamers it will take almost 5 years. I will let you make your own interpretation from this. The next calculation removes the prime mods since some people consider them unnecessary.

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics.

  Reveal hidden contents

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total.

6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300.

300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 208 = 1.442     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.923     |     300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years

This was essentially the same calculation as before minus the time it would take to acquire the prime mods as well. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons and equipment only. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years. Seems like it will still take 1-2 years or longer for the average gamer to acquire the weapons and equipment. Switching to another proposed system of 30 days instead of 50 next.

Proposed 30 Day Interval Category System

  Reveal hidden contents

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands. We need to figure out how many milestones there are under the current system first.

1100 ÷ 50 = 22 milestones

22 milestones × 30 days each = 660 days in total to acquire the weapons and equipment under a 30 day interval instead of 50

The same calculation proceeds here as in the first calculation, but replace 1100 with 660.

660 ÷ 312 = 2.115 years     |     660 ÷ 260 = 2.538     |     660 ÷ 208 = 3.173     |     660÷ 156 = 4.231     |     660 ÷ 104 = 6.346 years

This one is most similar to the realistic potential when hearing it takes 2-3 years to receive the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 days/week it takes a little over 2 years. For 5/week it is just over 2.5 years, 4/week over 3 years and 2 months, 3/week under 4 years and 3 months, and for the weekend gamer it takes over 6 years and 4 months. One benefit is you'll acquire the prime mods and the cosmetics during this time. On the other hand, it still suffers from it potentially taking more than 3 years for the average gamer like the current system. The next two calculations are the same iterations as above, but with 30 day milestones instead of 50.

Proposed Simple 30 Day Any Choice Interval System

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons, equipment, and prime mods before any other cosmetics.

  Reveal hidden contents

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons, 2 equipment, and 4 prime mods, so 10 items in total.

6 items × 50 login days required for each = 300 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 500 with 300.

300 ÷ 312 = 0.962 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 208 = 1.442     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.923     |     300 ÷ 104 = 2.885 years

This is exactly the same amount of time for each average logins per a week as the 50 day interval any choice when taking into account only weapons and equipment. What's the difference then? This includes the four prime mods as part of the amount of logins required. I will repeat what I wrote there here for convience. For an average of 6 days/week logging-in it takes just under a year to acquire the weapons, equipment, and prime mods. For 5/week it is under 1 year and 2 months, 4/week over 1 year and 5 months, 3/week just under 2 years, and for the weekend gamer it will take a little under 3 years.

This calculation assumes only taking the weapons and equipment before the prime mods and any other cosmetics

  Reveal hidden contents

The same amount of days a year as used in the first calculation still stands.

There are 4 weapons and 2 equipment, so 6 items in total.

6 items × 30 login days required for each = 180 login days required for the weapons and equipment

The same calculation proceeds here as in the last calculation, but replace 300 with 180.

180 ÷ 312 = 0.577 years     |     300 ÷ 260 = 0.692     |     300 ÷ 208 = 0.865     |     300 ÷ 156 = 1.154     |     300 ÷ 104 = 1.731 years

This calculation reveals some of the pros and cons and I will discuss them after. It is important to note not everyone would only pursue the weapons and equipment. For an average of 6 login days a week, it will take more than 7 months to only acquire the weapons and equipment. For 5/week it will take over 8 months, 4/week over 10 months, 3/week under 1 year and 2 months, and for the weekend gamer it will take under 1 year and 9 months when only pursuing the weapons and equipment (no prime mods and other cosmetics).

This has the strongest argument of the mentioned login systems for the weekend gamer as it gives them the most reasonable amount of time of 2-3 years to acquire the primary gameplay elements (weapons, equipment, and prime mods) from the login system. It is still a long time, but nowhere near the 10+ years it would currently take. It also has strong arguments for the average or recreational gamer as it will still take 2-3 years to acquire everything from the login system, but gives more choice to the user of what to acquire sooner. However, this does remove "login prestige" (how this ever came to be more of a bragging right than both hours played and how long ago you began playing I will not understand) as it gives a higher ratio incentive to play than to login as compared to before. On the other hand, the vets still have their prestige of already having most if not all of the items already plus their knowledge and experience over new players, which is not disappearing with any change to the login system. Regardles, the primary thing to take with this system is that you are less chained to the compulsion of needing to login everyday to have a chance at using the items locked within the login system.

Personally, I have no attachment to these system since locking gameplay elements behind login count is a terrible incentive to actually play the game. I'd rather they be as part of the number of real years you've been around (versus the current login years), a part of a mastery rank milestone, or hours played. This way the incentive is to remain actively playing versus actively logging-in. It still gives prestige to those who care so much about such. It rewards learning and gaining experience through playing. I don't think in-game challenges or those challenges giving tokens as a catch-up reward are a geat idea either since it leads to another compulsion with a different appearance and complicates the system further. Plus, do we really want yet another base currency when we already have 4 (credits, platinum, reputation, and focus). The game will become even more confusing and overwhelming for new players than it already is.

Let me know if I made any mistakes in calculations or other things, so I can correct it.

I like this.

Im what can be called a weekend warrior type of player. I play when i have time, some weeks i play 6 days a week. some weeks i dont even log out. others i dont have the oppurtunity to even touch the computer.

 

Right now, i started being able to play again as of saturday, i havent played since the day plains of eidolon dropped because my computer fried (lightning struck house) as of tommorow ill be hitting day 350. My account has been active since about 6 months before the current login system. My major problem is honestly all i care for currently is the primed mods first the weapons 2nd. Cosmetics i couldnt give a **** about. I already know i cant ever catch up to the current login days. That doesnt worry me but the fact that i have to wait effectively what is it now? 150 days (correct me if im wrong) before i can choose between the primed mods, all the while getting effectively useless junk. (Im rolling in millions of resources/credits/endo, besides mutagen samples, rip 1 man clans ='( ) #*!% i have nearly 8000 cyan ayatan stars that i can put into sculptures (when/if i find 1) 3k oranges. So really getting resources/appearance junk at the moment is not really something i honestly care about. My level of "fashion frame" is a nearly all black save energy and accent color valkyr prime with a war stuck through the back like in 2nd dream. (I like to say the stalker stabbed me, but couldnt get his sword back out in time)

(Warning incoming mildly angry rant! If you dont want to have your feelings hurt: go grab a cookie and scroll on past)

 

To those "butthurt" /s "veterans" complaining about "exclusivity because they hand cuffed themselves to the computer" please. Grow up. Seriously. Your trying to act entitled to something and being self centered. Okay so you logged in every day ever. Want a cookie? Because if you honestly have a problem with the fact the devs arent catering to ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to you or that you feel somehow wronged by a games developers because you decided to become truly ocd and just login just to get things (that, lets be honest how many times are you actually going to be using say the azima, or that first sigil?). If your not playing warframe to just have fun, and instead view your login count as a chore that you must complete every day at all costs is honestly toxic to the game. Especially if you believe that as a so called "veteran" you are entitled to tell DE what to do with their own game.

(Rant over, welcome back enjoy your cookie? =D )

 

That being said they do want our opinions.

So heres my opinion/ideas:

1) allow any line of rewards to be chosen mods, weapons, cosmetics etc. Let the players make the choice of what they want to work their way towards. For weapons a possible balance to their power could be a minimum MR possibly at MR 5, 6 or 7. Not too late, but not too early. Likely just after a new player beats 2nd dream.

2) a way to accelerate the login counter in game. Perhaps a rare (2.5% chance?) reward for sorties which adds +1 day to the counter. Unless they are within a specific range of the last login reward possible. It stays in the inventory until used on login (i.e. login reward is gotten, they click a button that consumes one of these items they get the next days login.)

3) no trading. Please. This would just be a bad idea all around.

4) using the warframe app counts as logins if that account hasnt logged in within the last 24 hours. Otherwise what is the real use of the app? (Besides ya know sending out your fleet of extractors to grind resources while your unable to login)

5) for those who are inactive for a long period of time, temporarily accelerate the number of login bonuses they get per day proportional to how long they were gone. With a max acceleration equal to half the days they were not logging in. I.e. player hasnt played for 30 days: they get 2 "logins" a day for the next 14 or so days. If they miss a year they get 7 "logins" for the next 51 or so days. These accelerations carry over if they login for say 5 days and then stop for say another week. But otherwise they must be relatively active in order to keep their acceleration. Ill let you figure out the exact numbers. But basically this allows those coming back after unforseen circumstances that kept them from logging in for a period of time to catch back up to some extent. Alternate: grant returning players a number of the tokens as suggested by suggestion 2) of this post.

6) in addition because this will likely make alot of players happy: on the next login after this update allow players to choose which line they are on. I.e. player is at 415 days. When they login they get the choice of what would be a valid day 450 reward, just they "start" that line 15 days in.

Finally 7) for the fourth category: a permanent resource blueprint for the rarer resources that cost more in resources than a single use version of that blueprint (if it were to exist) I.e. a permanent forma blueprint would require 1.5x~3x the cost of a single use forma blueprint. Not outright negating the benefit of a normal single use, but still there if needed. Or perhaps a legendary core(s) as the reward for those 50 days.

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I think the easiest compromise would be to cut the requirements for the mods and the weapons in half. I'm not so radical that I don't see how steep are the current requirements.

I love the idea of armors and perhaps skins being major log-in rewards beyond day 1000. I know this isn't a wishlist thread, but please consider for day 1500 a metallic color palette which will make whatever skin (prime, tennogen, generic, etc) look metallic in whichever color is chosen. I don't mean to be ungrateful, but Primed Sure Footed at day 900?! This is like reading War and Peace all the way to the next-to-last chapter (before the 1st Epilogue) and finding out Tolstoy said " the heck with this, let me ramble about military uniforms." It's not a bad mod, it just doesn't seem to measure up with the required time to get it. Why not a prime landing craft skin,a full set of Arcane Energize ( 😄 ), a special color palette that turns us invisible? I can dream...

Anyways, I may complain but I still love you DE and my fellow Tenno! When I stop complaining it means I've gone on a wild goose chase to summon the spirit of Hawking's IQ.

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37 minutes ago, NemoOceansoul said:

To those "butthurt" /s "veterans" complaining about "exclusivity because they hand cuffed themselves to the computer" please. Grow up. Seriously. Your trying to act entitled to something and being self centered. Okay so you logged in every day ever. Want a cookie? Because if you honestly have a problem with the fact the devs arent catering to ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY to you or that you feel somehow wronged by a games developers because you decided to become truly ocd and just login just to get things (that, lets be honest how many times are you actually going to be using say the azima, or that first sigil?). If your not playing warframe to just have fun, and instead view your login count as a chore that you must complete every day at all costs is honestly toxic to the game. Especially if you believe that as a so called "veteran" you are entitled to tell DE what to do with their own game.

(Rant over, welcome back enjoy your cookie? =D )

I especially enjoy things like this, where opinions are wanted but any veterans opinions are immediately "complaints" and "entitlements" and "exclusivity". I've been in and out of chemo for 2 years, most definitely not chained to a computer and I still found time to login most days. Ive missed many weeks though when sick, and still manage to be over 800. Many people are pissed not so much because of the trinkets, but because their time and support for a game they have loved for years is constantly and consistently being spat on like it doesn't even matter, most especially since PoE. I find your tone just insulting tbh. Your opinion is apparently just fine but anything outside of the loud whinings for everything ASAP counts as complaining?

Okey Dokey.

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